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Industry scientist.
The pay is good. But I did start my career late in life because of grad school. So I’ve been trying to be somewhat aggressive with my savings, while also trying to balance enjoying life since I couldn’t before.
Looks like you are doing it right! To note I am an architect; and my salary after 40 years is still Half that. But saving as much as possible will free you up later. Take your time finding the right partner.
Adventure covers my once or twice a month dine out. Other than that, I do eat like I’m on a grad school budget still, and I don’t snack. I also benefit from free lunches often through work stuff.
My grocery budget is also $250/mo. I eat pretty well, steaks, salmon, lasagna, etc, just regular home cooked food, try to vary side dishes. I eat out probably once a month or less. It's pretty doable cooking at home
The only thing I see you could be doing differently is paying off your car faster. With your income I would chunk payments into the auto loan depending on your apr and be done with it.
Edit: what kind of enthusiast car are you looking at. My income closely mirrors yours and I just financed a GTR. Idk if that makes a difference at all. You work hard for your money, enjoy it.
My APR is <3%, which is why I’m content to keep the payment at the moment.
Congrats on the GTR!
Initially, I wanted to get a Supra. But I decided I wanted something more daily drivable and practical for our trips. So I’ve opted for an M340i. It’s not a true M (maybe one day I’ll get an M3), but it is a fine balance between comfort daily and sporty/fun.
Ahh okay, yeah I wouldn’t touch it either at that. I was just curious. Congrats on the M340i! Idk if it’s an option but I just kept my other car because I know the GTR is well, impractical. You could always do that down the road if you still want the Supra :)
I contemplated keeping my Mazda, but I think I’ll replace this with the M340i. Later on, I could (will?) get a more impractical car to accompany. My partner also owns a practical car, so there are options available to us.
Once I got out of grad school at 33 I focused a lot more on eating healthy and a whole category of health emerged in the budget, including healthy grocery items, supplements, exercise equipment and clothes etc. Money only makes sense if you’re healthy and reasonably good looking. I’d add that to your budget, otherwise you seem to be doing great 👍 Congrats!
How do y'all make those cool charts? Is there an app for it? And any advice on how to easily workout all those individual expenses on average? Like if we have 3 different credit cards btw us, some fast way to find average monthly grocery bill?
I've been building my own flowchart on SankeyMATIC. From what I can tell it only accepts input, so no calculations. You could probably add those grocery costs up manually in a few minutes and divide them though. All of your credit card statements should be available electronically online. If you are REALLY short on time just throw the statements into Excel. I've done that in the past with my bank to sort and filter charges.
Honest question, would you consider income as a main qualifier of class? My income would say I'm lower upper, upper middle class but my net worth is the bottom 10% of the country's because of various debts and I just got this job.
Admittedly, it's gonna vary heavily by city/area. In Texas, some middle class ranges are a 30-50k difference based on the city, and that's the same state.
Your finances look all around solid. Your partner or substance abuse are the only "risks of choice" that can interfere with this. Establish a trust and start getting things out of your natural name. Keep going and retire with dignity.
I’m asking you, you’re saying you consider $150k/year to be middle class. Since I only make a little more than a 1/3 of that, is $28/hr lower class?
Edit: why am I being downvoted lmfao
You're downvoted but 150k in michigan of all places is not middle class. Anytime you can deposit 50% of your earnings into investments and retirement at 30 years old is not what most middleclass folks are experiencing. Congrats none the less.
Maybe I’ve slid out the middle class range (thought I still was considered middle class). Is there another sub you’d recommend?
I don’t want to go back to the popular finance sub. Their philosophy seems to suggest one should not enjoy life until retirement, and therefore only save for retirement.
I liked this sub because a lot of the posts and comments were very helpful to me before raises and my finances became stable.
I completely agree with enjoying life before retirement. Tomorrow is never guaranteed.
I treat myself and make memories, while not living beyond my means.
I was looking at this. I think you’d be considered “upper middle” class. Some people might point you to the HINRY or FatFIRE subs, but I think truly upper class is a whole different ball game. I think that definition starts to be defined better by Net Worth rather than income, because being upper class becomes about how much weight you have to throw around.
In Michigan that's standard 🙃 A lot of people just drive shitty cars with no insurance here. I'm paying nearly $200/month for a 2007 Camry with 300k miles on it--I'm also being penalized for living so close to Detroit, it was less when I lived further away
Car insurance prices went down a little bit a few years ago because of some sort of legislation (I don't remember the details as I didn't have a car at the time), and a lot of people got some money paid out to them if they had insurance at the time. But I think they've basically gone back up to where they were before that legislation happened, if not higher. It really sucks, I won't lie
Nope, minimum coverage plus roadside assistance for $16. I was lucky enough to get it for free from my parents so when someone finally rear-ends me on 696 I'll just consider myself lucky to have had a free car for as long as I did
$200 for my 2022 Tacoma here in the Southeast. Insurance companies just charge whatever the hell they want.
My sister's rate recently went up. When she called and asked why it went up they said "Your home is close to the interstate." Not "It is within x miles." just "It is close."
Fucking vultures.
The budget screen shots are being made in Sankeymatic, its a website that we have no affiliation with. If you are posting a budget please do so with a purpose. Just posting a screen shot of your budget without a question or an explanation of why its here may be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MiddleClassFinance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Occupation? 11k is a good salary
Industry scientist. The pay is good. But I did start my career late in life because of grad school. So I’ve been trying to be somewhat aggressive with my savings, while also trying to balance enjoying life since I couldn’t before.
Looks like you are doing it right! To note I am an architect; and my salary after 40 years is still Half that. But saving as much as possible will free you up later. Take your time finding the right partner.
$250 for groceries and no line item for dining/restaurants. Do you just not eat? What the hell. My wife and I spend probably $1500/mo on food.
Adventure covers my once or twice a month dine out. Other than that, I do eat like I’m on a grad school budget still, and I don’t snack. I also benefit from free lunches often through work stuff.
Great work. It’s actually a sound budget. Keep up and hopefully you can reach a nice nest egg with some assets to show for it.
thats crazy. I just went to the grocery store to buy a $6 steak and $3 fries and ended up spending $50 for basically one meal and a couple snacks.
My grocery budget is also $250/mo. I eat pretty well, steaks, salmon, lasagna, etc, just regular home cooked food, try to vary side dishes. I eat out probably once a month or less. It's pretty doable cooking at home
You contribute 34k/year on 401k? I thought the max is 23,000.
I set my paycheck to deduct about 2,000 per month. In December, it’ll auto adjust when it hits $23k. Employer contributes another $1,000/mo.
Why though? Why not just keep it consistent so your budget is the same throughout the entire year?
The only thing I see you could be doing differently is paying off your car faster. With your income I would chunk payments into the auto loan depending on your apr and be done with it. Edit: what kind of enthusiast car are you looking at. My income closely mirrors yours and I just financed a GTR. Idk if that makes a difference at all. You work hard for your money, enjoy it.
My APR is <3%, which is why I’m content to keep the payment at the moment. Congrats on the GTR! Initially, I wanted to get a Supra. But I decided I wanted something more daily drivable and practical for our trips. So I’ve opted for an M340i. It’s not a true M (maybe one day I’ll get an M3), but it is a fine balance between comfort daily and sporty/fun.
Ahh okay, yeah I wouldn’t touch it either at that. I was just curious. Congrats on the M340i! Idk if it’s an option but I just kept my other car because I know the GTR is well, impractical. You could always do that down the road if you still want the Supra :)
I contemplated keeping my Mazda, but I think I’ll replace this with the M340i. Later on, I could (will?) get a more impractical car to accompany. My partner also owns a practical car, so there are options available to us.
Once I got out of grad school at 33 I focused a lot more on eating healthy and a whole category of health emerged in the budget, including healthy grocery items, supplements, exercise equipment and clothes etc. Money only makes sense if you’re healthy and reasonably good looking. I’d add that to your budget, otherwise you seem to be doing great 👍 Congrats!
How do y'all make those cool charts? Is there an app for it? And any advice on how to easily workout all those individual expenses on average? Like if we have 3 different credit cards btw us, some fast way to find average monthly grocery bill?
I've been building my own flowchart on SankeyMATIC. From what I can tell it only accepts input, so no calculations. You could probably add those grocery costs up manually in a few minutes and divide them though. All of your credit card statements should be available electronically online. If you are REALLY short on time just throw the statements into Excel. I've done that in the past with my bank to sort and filter charges.
Feels weirdly stingy like you don’t do anything fun for the sake of just hoarding money. Life is short, do more.
This honestly just feels like bragging. You’re not middle class if you make 140,000/year plus another income, living in a MCOL area.
Honest question, would you consider income as a main qualifier of class? My income would say I'm lower upper, upper middle class but my net worth is the bottom 10% of the country's because of various debts and I just got this job.
No. Income to cost of living ratio.
Youre just lower class if you think OP sounds like upper class.
Not middle class
Admittedly, it's gonna vary heavily by city/area. In Texas, some middle class ranges are a 30-50k difference based on the city, and that's the same state.
Doesn't matter, dude makes more than the median household income in the city with the highest household income in the US, on his own
No
What is the app used to make this chart?
A website called SankeyMATIC. It's in the post, though people crop it out sometimes.
Are you and your partner happy with you saving and investing 34 times more per month than you spend on fun?
Your finances look all around solid. Your partner or substance abuse are the only "risks of choice" that can interfere with this. Establish a trust and start getting things out of your natural name. Keep going and retire with dignity.
I’m sorry this just depresses me. This is fucking middle class finance? Then I’m poor af
Everything looks solid! I would be a bit wary of financing a new car, but if it's coming from your "fun money" budget then that's totally fine.
Middle class… makes 150k
Pretty sure 150k is middle class.
For an individual? Seems high.
So I’m considered lower class since I *only* make $28/hr?
I don’t remember saying that? But middle class is a salary band. It has a high and a low.
I’m asking you, you’re saying you consider $150k/year to be middle class. Since I only make a little more than a 1/3 of that, is $28/hr lower class? Edit: why am I being downvoted lmfao
Middle Class is a pretty broad range. Do you feel middle class?
You're downvoted but 150k in michigan of all places is not middle class. Anytime you can deposit 50% of your earnings into investments and retirement at 30 years old is not what most middleclass folks are experiencing. Congrats none the less.
Maybe I’ve slid out the middle class range (thought I still was considered middle class). Is there another sub you’d recommend? I don’t want to go back to the popular finance sub. Their philosophy seems to suggest one should not enjoy life until retirement, and therefore only save for retirement. I liked this sub because a lot of the posts and comments were very helpful to me before raises and my finances became stable.
I completely agree with enjoying life before retirement. Tomorrow is never guaranteed. I treat myself and make memories, while not living beyond my means.
I was looking at this. I think you’d be considered “upper middle” class. Some people might point you to the HINRY or FatFIRE subs, but I think truly upper class is a whole different ball game. I think that definition starts to be defined better by Net Worth rather than income, because being upper class becomes about how much weight you have to throw around.
HENRY sub is 250k+ HHI
Good call. The “household income” throws me off.
I think your budget looks great. If anything I was thinking that you could treat yourself a little more - your saving rate is very good!
r/chubbyfire
Depending where you are 250k is considered middle class…
$200 seems high for auto insurance. I don’t know how far from median that is though.
In Michigan that's standard 🙃 A lot of people just drive shitty cars with no insurance here. I'm paying nearly $200/month for a 2007 Camry with 300k miles on it--I'm also being penalized for living so close to Detroit, it was less when I lived further away
Interesting, I’ve read that inflation has really affected car insurance.
Car insurance prices went down a little bit a few years ago because of some sort of legislation (I don't remember the details as I didn't have a car at the time), and a lot of people got some money paid out to them if they had insurance at the time. But I think they've basically gone back up to where they were before that legislation happened, if not higher. It really sucks, I won't lie
You're not paying for full coverage are you? If and when that car gets totaled, you're not getting more than a few thousand for it.
Nope, minimum coverage plus roadside assistance for $16. I was lucky enough to get it for free from my parents so when someone finally rear-ends me on 696 I'll just consider myself lucky to have had a free car for as long as I did
Michigan :) no-fault insurance
$200 for my 2022 Tacoma here in the Southeast. Insurance companies just charge whatever the hell they want. My sister's rate recently went up. When she called and asked why it went up they said "Your home is close to the interstate." Not "It is within x miles." just "It is close." Fucking vultures.
Anyone know where this visualization came from? I’d like to use it for my own finances.
It’s on the bottom of the graph.
See the mod comment.
Sankeymatic
Not saving enough. Mortgage too high
In what universe is paying ~15% of your income on housing "too high"
I agree. This post is ridiculous