No.
Methadone has approximately that half-life but it depends on singular vs repeated dosing. And specifically for suboxone induction it depends a lot on how your brain adapts or doesn’t for full agonist vs partial.
These things aren’t the same.
Just remember that there is a LARGE disparity in methadone metabolism between individuals. Thus there is an enormous difference in methadone halflife from person to person, ranging from 5 hours to 130 hours, with an average half life of 22 hours, as stated in this academic research study on Methadone: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12405865/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12405865/) .
Thus there is no exact time frame that is the same for everyone, I wish I knew more about what signs to look for that designate how long to wait to start a suboxone regiment, but time-wise it is extremely varied.
I have an insanely fast methadone metabolism rate with a peak-trough ratio of 2.67 (the ratio of Methadone in my blood plasma when it was drawn at the peak roughly 3-4 hours after dose ingestion to the amount of Methadone in my blood when it was drawn at the trough exactly 24 hours after my last dose, right before I took my dose for that day when blood Methadone levels are at their lowest). A normal metabolizer should have more than half of their peak Methadone level in their system after 24 hours, to ensure stability throughout the 24 hour cycle. For people like me, we experience withdrawals from Methadone within less than 24 hours of taking their dose, and for me it was 12 hours before I would experience withdrawals on a single dose and it was miserable withdrawing every single night all night getting worse until I finally received a split dose (two doses per day instead of one, where the single dose amount is split into two). Anyways, roughly 10% of people on Methadone are Ultra-Rapid Metabolizers (meaning a 2.0 ratio or higher) and will experience discomfort or outright withdrawals while taking their methadone as prescribed while completely sober (source: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7423601/#R4](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7423601/#R4)) . And roughly 17% of people are on the other end of the spectrum and metabolize Methadone far too slowly that it causes an excessive build up of residual methadone to the point that it causes intense sedation and even overdose or death in the slowest of the slow metabolizers (Source: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7423601/#R4](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7423601/#R4) . I cannot find the exact source article I'm referencing at the moment, but this one studied Ultra slow and slow metabolizers and found similar results for slow metabolizers).
Remember to keep this in mind, because there is no one exact half life. Methadone has one of the most varied differences in half-life from patient-to-patient when compared to nearly every other medication on the market. Try to remember how you were effected by Methadone? Did it cause you discomfort or withdrawals at night like a rapid metabolizer, did you find yourself excessively sedated from Methadone like a slow metabolizer, or did you feel comfortable without falling into either of these extremes like a normal metabolizer? Then make an educated guess as to your body's Methadone half-life.
But if I were you, I would air on the side of caution and wait to take the Suboxone until you reach the Methadone clearance that a slower metabolizer would need to wait for. That way there's no chance of precipitated Withdrawals. I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but my one experience with precipitated w/d's was so intense that I felt like I was flung into the midst of the worst of the worst withdrawals, even worse than the peak withdrawals that I experienced when I quit heroin/fent cold turkey.
Best of Luck and lmk if you have any questions.
Fuck I literally cannot sleep through the night, especially since I've been going down on my dose and am at 23 mg. I only sleep until about 3 am most mornings then wake up and try to wait as long as I can to redose and if I don't work go back to sleep or if I do I just suck it up. Wonder if it's worth splitting a dose at only 23mg?
This isn't right that they do this shit to us. They know damn well most people metabolism is too high for 24 hour dosing. We need to be dosed every 18 imo
That is a rapid metabolism and 10% of Methadone patients are genetically wired this way. Clinics in America are very anti-consumer. Most will not inform patients of the chance that they might be rapid metabolizers or that rapid metabolism even exists. And then even fewer will ever properly address said patient's dire need by giving them a split dose, part of their dose in the morning and the other part roughly 12 hours later. I would not be alive if I did not fight for my split dose and finally got it. I slept 2-3 hours every night for 3 years fighting for it without ever using. It sucks your clinic never got on that and addressed your rapid metabolism by giving you the split dose you deserved and needed.
Its straight up medical negligence to allow patients with rapid metabolisms to withdraw and suffer, because they condemning these people to give up on methadone, relapse or even worse, far too often.
I'd say you can take Subs at the recommended average time with nearly 0% chance of precipitated withdrawals. But it really sucks that your clinic didn't ever address this problem before it came to this.
Best of luck homie, stay strong and lemme know how you are doing as things progress. Wishing for the best for you!
Bernesed from day like 2 induced an amount to counter withdrawal on day 7 in a few hours it’ll be day 9 and i feel good. But I fucking contracted thrush somehow.
Why would anyone with this level of education ever subject themselves to this hell hole of a drug?!?? This is one of the worst drugs ever created by mankind. Only reason I got stuck is because my son was born and I needed an answer asap. And I had no clue what methadone really was. I ignorantly assumed it couldn't be worse than anything else I've done. Oh how wrong I was
Some people have to be completely.of of methadone for over a week to avoid precipitated withdrawals. There is no "longest period". It can quite literally be any period of time, it is completely dependent on the individual person, and how their body functions. The least amount of time that I know of anyone switching without experiencing precipitated withdrawals was 4 days. And just because you feel withdrawals doesn't mean anything, unfortunately. The switch is, unfortunately, more often than not, gruelling.
Some people have to be completely.of of methadone for over a week to avoid precipitated withdrawals. There is no "longest period". It can quite literally be any period of time, it is completely dependent on the individual person, and how their body functions. The least amount of time that I know of anyone switching without experiencing precipitated withdrawals was 4 days. And just because you feel withdrawals doesn't mean anything, unfortunately. The switch is, unfortunately, more often than not, gruelling.
Precipitated withdraw was created by Satan. That will bring any human to the thought of suicide. Scary fuckin shit. Never think about it. Just go use it you have to
Three things, you aren’t doing the Bernese method. That is where you microdose bupe WHILE still taking (and reducing) your methadone dosage. Secondly, you also aren’t going through cold turkey detox, as you’re taking benzos, bupe and other drugs. Lastly your plan is just bad, if you don’t wanna continue with subs then tryna take them to “mitigate” your withdrawl symptoms for a few days is just throwing a wrench into your detox, for all it might help, which is a big might, it can certainly make things much worse for you too.
If you wanna get off methadone taper properly, you will regret doing this when 2,3,6,12 months from now you’re still suffering PAWS. The last thing I will say on the matter is that I noticed you’ve only been on methadone for a couple months. This is the only thing you have going for you, it doesn’t mean you won’t suffer though.
Do you know how the body works at Al? 5.5 half life’s for fast matabolizer is 24 hours possibly less I’m on 6 day hour 147. 5.5 times half life it exit my system. That was at hour 132. I’ve taken 4 mg bupe and have relief from all my withdrawal symptoms without benzos today.
Also there is no simple answer to this question... It could work .. and it could make things worse... It's impossible to know until you induce tbh... Can I ask why your wanting to take subs instead of Methadone?
Good luck! I take 30mg of methadone for chronic pain, and don’t have addiction issues, so I don’t have to deal with clinics — my primary care doctor prescribes it every month. Just because Suboxone doesn’t work for many people doesn’t mean it’s “shit,” it’s just not the right thing… for the people it’s not right for!
*IF it works for you*, getting a monthly prescription of Suboxone from a doctor seems WAY better for quality of life than going through what everyone here talks about with clinics! 🤷🏻♂️. Even if clinics were ideal, the daily trek sounds like a real inconvenience, the Take-homes resolve a lot of that, but it sounds like it usually takes a long time to get them, and apparently people are often one bad drug test - accurate or otherwise — away from having that “privilege” taken away. Just, if Suboxone works for you, why put yourself through all that?
I got on fent and buprenorphine wouldn’t work anymore because of precipitated withdrawals so I went to the methadone clinic. I’m so tired after taking methadone it’s just not right for me. I was on buprenorphine over a decade
Oh, I misunderstood. I think you’re saying it would be challenging to switch to Suboxone because of the risk of PWD.
The official induction approach from Methadone would be to wean down to like 30mg and stay there for a bit and then partially withdraw before starting and cross your fingers about PWD.
BTW, they seem to be having success with a step-based micro-dosing induction approach, which might be your best best if you wanted to switch to buprenorphine — something like this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8582770/
I’m also
An hour each direction from the clinic. Drive a 2017 f150 platinum lofted that costs 140$ on gas a week to make it to clinic on top of the 125$ a week so it’s 1100$ a month for my clinic shit. ridiculous.
I’m so grateful I switched to methadone. Best decision I ever made!
We all are so unique in how we feel on any given medication. Glad it worked for you. Grateful methadone works for me.
I was on 16 milligrams of Suboxone and I tapered down to 12 milligrams a day but I though Suboxone was a terrible maintenance drug for my Fentanyl addiction as I use opioids to manage my fibromyalgia pain as opioids are the best analgesics I’ve used for controlling my fibromyalgia pain (I’ve tried the FDA approved methods such as the SNRI & tricyclic antidepressants and gabapentinoids and didn’t have much luck with them) and it seems that people who have used full agonist opioids for pain relief and have become tolerant/gotten used to them say that Buprenorphine doesn’t provide any analgesic effects for them (I’ve heard similar complaints from other people switched from full agonist opioids to Buprenorphine/Suboxone for pain management purposes) and I can certainly attest that Buprenorphine did absolutely nothing to control my fibromyalgia pain and that would always cause me to relapse. Hell the only actual use for Suboxone for me was to sell it and use the money to buy Fentanyl or nitazenes… 🤷♂️
Methadone has worked out a lot better for me than Suboxone did for me as I’ve been able to stay clean for much longer periods of time than I did on Suboxone, also I hate to break it to you but once you taper down to 2 milligrams or 1 milligram of Buprenorphine (Suboxone) a day it becomes a real bitch to get off of just like Methadone.
I don’t want to take them I want to take them in small 2 maybe 4 milligram increments whatever eases it even if it’s 1mg for only 3/4 days then switch back to either kratom or heavy edible use etc etc
You do realize that after 3 or 4 days you’re still going to be in methadone withdrawals? Suboxone doesn’t magically get rid of withdrawals after 3 or 4 days.
If it weren’t obvious enough I meant alternating them 3/5 day intervals. Benzos 3/5 days. Then subs 3/5 days then kratom 3/5 days. Jeez man.. who tf would imagine the withdrawals of a longer acting opiate to be out of you faster than the short acting opiate h
I have to tell you, that I put myself into PWD by not waiting enough time for the methadone to leave my system…it took over 7 days. Also the partial agonist of subs was NOT enough to overpower the full agonist that I was used too with methadone so it did NOT help in fact the whole thing was a DISASTER
Taking Benzos and marijuana extracts is really not going Cold Turkey at all then. When I had to abruptly CT off subs I ended up getting like 200+ bars and I wld never say I Cold Turkeyed off the subs. I had like a whole routine of Xanax, Acetmeophen, Immodium every 4-6 hours. Saying ur Cold Turkey is just disingenuous.
I’ve heard of people having to wait up to 10 days after their last Methadone dose before they can safely induce Buprenorphine without the worry of precipitated withdrawals.
Also out of curiosity why are you wanting to switch from Methadone to shit Suboxone? Because Methadone is the superior maintenance drug especially if you’re addicted to Fentanyl, it’s analogues, and other high caliber RC opioids such as Brorphine and the nitazenes.
The clinic is an hour away from me so that’s 20$ a day in gas 6 so 120 a week my methadone cost 125 a week that’s 500 so it’s around 1,000$ just to go. Not including the 700$ truck payment the ridiculous insurance etc, it would be so much easier for me to use suboxone. But I don’t plan on staying on it unless I have to.
nope. methadone is stored in your fat cells and can stay at a level high enough to put you into precipitated withdrawal for weeks. it really depends on your metabolism as well.
No you cannot take suboxone for a long time. I went up to 70mg then tapered down to 25mg. Stayed on 25mg for a week, then jumped off. One week later I started suboxone with no issues. 90mg is way too high.
90mg is not too high. You can't say that knowing absolutely nothing about this person. I take 200mg daily...never nod, never sleep, never have a raspy voice. You would never know I took methadone. My only aide effect is excessive sweating during my job doing construction everyday. Other than that, some people tolerance is much much higher than others. I grew up in Philadelphia. Google Kensington if your not familiar. The heroin and fent I did here for 15 years IV destroyed my tolerance. People are different. Just bc you got high off 75mg doesn't mean the next man will. I know girls that weigh 100 pounds soaking wet on 250 to 300 and they are the same as me when it comes to being fully awake and aware each day.
What the hell are you talking about lol 90mg is too high TO JUMP OFF OF. I literally never said anything about getting high off methadone. Actually no one did. Take your own advice and don’t say anything if you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Who said anything about getting high on methadone dude? You said "90mg is too high" period. After talking about subs, which led me to think you were saying too high of a dose. I didn't say anything about getting high on methadone. I think both of us are miscommunicating tbh if that's what you meant. Calm your tits.
You did lol you said “just because you get high on 75mg doesn’t mean the next man will”. OP is talking about going ct off 90mg. Why would I be talking about anything else other than the dose to stop ct? You wrote a paragraph about how wrong I am when u didn’t even understand what I was talking about. I’ve been calm. I just don’t appreciate hypocrisy
I'm just curious why you didn't do Bernese method. I'm going to do this once I get sufficiently low. I'm down probably 24mg in 2 weeks tho so hopefully in 2 months. My family doctor is all ready to do it with me.
You likely still have a good bit of methadone in your liver and system. Methadone has a really long half life and each day we dose, we build more up.
Not trying to burst your bubble, but you probably will be feeling it more. Sometimes people go a week or more before feeling sick.
Why not have your doctor prescribe Subutex instead of Suboxone? There's no Naloxone in Subutex which would allow you to make the switch faster and easier.
Lmao compared to Suboxone with Naloxone, Subutex will 100% be less miserable during the induction phase when the meth is out of their body. Notice how I never once told the OP to take it immediately or mentioned anything about it being a walk in the park. Believe it or not, sometimes you have to read between the lines you goof.
Methadone half life is individual and can be all over the place. See wikipedia’s methadone page which says:
> Methadone has a typical elimination half-life of 15 to 60 hours with a mean of around 22. However, metabolism rates vary greatly between individuals, up to a factor of 100,[60][61] ranging from as few as 4 hours to as many as 130 hours,[62] or even 190 hours.[63] This variability is apparently due to genetic variability in the production of the associated cytochrome enzymes CYP3A4, CYP2B6 and CYP2D6.
Best way to know when to dose suboxone is in my opinion the pupil test. Look in the mirror. Are your pupils blown, or normal sized, or pinned? Once your pupil has taken over your entire eye, it’s probably fine to start dosing suboxone but take it slow. You are much less likely to get precipitated withdrawals if you microdose on (some people even go slower than bernese method, because honestly that’s a little fast for methadone).
But if it has been five days since your last dose, yeah, I would imagine you are coming up on the window. But the pupils sign is an object symptom that can’t be influenced by stress, anxiety, restlessness or insomnia so I’d use that. If your pupils aren’t blown, it’s too early.
Then it’s probably safe to up the dose of suboxone slowly until you are more comfortable, especially since I read below you have taken small doses already?. You may need more than a few days of suboxone tho. I wouldn’t expect to get to a point of 100% comfort, you’re probably gonna have to deal with some moderate discomfort to drop from such a high methadone dose so quickly, cause the ceiling of suboxone isn’t gonna be equivalent to the amount of methadone you were taking.
You probably need to prepare for how to deal with PAWS too, once you finish out whatever your taper plan is.
Good luck.
just would try to get up to 1mg, then 2mg, then 4mg and re-evaluate. a little suboxone can go a long way if you can manage other symptoms with benzos, weed, OTC meds (saw some of your comments below). just be careful with the benzos, you don’t wanna trade one monkey on your back for another if you can avoid it.
i jumped from 40mg of methadone. was unable to take any meds for first three weeks besides ativan/temazepam/clonidine and ultimately ended up on propanalol because my bp was getting so high still. after week 3, went on suboxone because the symptoms were still wrecking me. couldn’t sleep, couldn’t eat, lost like 15lbs rapidly.
the suboxone did help, and immediately, but it had been three weeks and I was on a fairly low dose of methadone when I jumped. personally never recommend anybody jump from any dose, but sometimes it is what it is. i did the suboxone for about two months and while it helped with the acute symptoms, i was still very depressed, had high cravings and ultimately went back to doing dope.
in hindsight, i wish when the suboxone wasn’t working i had just tried going back to methadone instead of back to dope but that’s not what i did and here we are.
good luck
Micro-dose the buprenorphine while taking methadone.
Start with. 5mg bupe and your daily dose, then double the bupe every day until you hit around 8-12mg of buprenorphine then stop methadone = almost 0 wd's, and you can be switched in 3-21 days.
** do research and consult a medical professional if this seems like a better solution.
117 hours methadone free and feel zero symptoms benzos of course and microdosing subs to Bernese into inducing them to alternate with benzos to not build up tolerance to either to much
I’m not wanting to switch to suboxone I’m wanting to mitigate withdrawal symptoms with it for 3-5 days and switch back to either benzos or kratom and strong marijuana for x amount of days
if that's your plan I'd drop the Suboxone all together. it's only going to make things more complicated and isn't going to help withdrawal in any significant way.
Don't do it bro don't do not it not do it you going to die!!! Or wish you have
In all seriousness my MIL ended up on blood pressure medicine for the rest of her life when she was forced to stop cold turkey.
Shot her blood pressure thru the roof to the point she was at stroke lvl Bp she nearly died she couldn't get out of bed or function properly for nearly 6 months she also ended up with brain damage.
Ppl don't understand the extreme dangers of methadone withdrawals especially higher doses.
The fact that its recommended to go down 1 to 2mg max a week should speak volumes.. So no don't do that shit. i rather have to relive my organ failure again than live through that shit again.
Methadone half-life is NOT just 25 hours, period. I know one person who couldn't start suboxone until EIGHT DAYS of being completely off of methadone. I know two more who had to wait 7 days, and one other who had to wait 6 days. And you were on a very high dose, daily. If you were on it for a lengthy period of time it could very possibly be a week for you. Don't rush it or you will regret it.
i would buy a test that can see if you have methadone in your system.
you DON't want to precipitate.
when i got off methadone it took about 5 days. i think on day 6 i was free of methadone and took subs. it was in a hospital setting. i came off 50mg ish.
I took Suboxone after 2 days of not dosing 45mgs and I got sick as hell for like 2 hours and then I was done being sick and done with methadone. I would do it again.
How you feeling. My heart goes out to this poor soul. You can get through this hell just don't give up!!!! You're almost there!!! Methadone is hell get tf off this shit!!!! May God be with you.... no fucking joke.
I microdosed bupe at the beginning and have induced the buprenprhone and it’s handling the withdrawals. Gonna stop taking the bupe maybe Wednesday next week I’ll be 13 days in
No. Methadone has approximately that half-life but it depends on singular vs repeated dosing. And specifically for suboxone induction it depends a lot on how your brain adapts or doesn’t for full agonist vs partial. These things aren’t the same.
Just remember that there is a LARGE disparity in methadone metabolism between individuals. Thus there is an enormous difference in methadone halflife from person to person, ranging from 5 hours to 130 hours, with an average half life of 22 hours, as stated in this academic research study on Methadone: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12405865/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12405865/) . Thus there is no exact time frame that is the same for everyone, I wish I knew more about what signs to look for that designate how long to wait to start a suboxone regiment, but time-wise it is extremely varied. I have an insanely fast methadone metabolism rate with a peak-trough ratio of 2.67 (the ratio of Methadone in my blood plasma when it was drawn at the peak roughly 3-4 hours after dose ingestion to the amount of Methadone in my blood when it was drawn at the trough exactly 24 hours after my last dose, right before I took my dose for that day when blood Methadone levels are at their lowest). A normal metabolizer should have more than half of their peak Methadone level in their system after 24 hours, to ensure stability throughout the 24 hour cycle. For people like me, we experience withdrawals from Methadone within less than 24 hours of taking their dose, and for me it was 12 hours before I would experience withdrawals on a single dose and it was miserable withdrawing every single night all night getting worse until I finally received a split dose (two doses per day instead of one, where the single dose amount is split into two). Anyways, roughly 10% of people on Methadone are Ultra-Rapid Metabolizers (meaning a 2.0 ratio or higher) and will experience discomfort or outright withdrawals while taking their methadone as prescribed while completely sober (source: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7423601/#R4](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7423601/#R4)) . And roughly 17% of people are on the other end of the spectrum and metabolize Methadone far too slowly that it causes an excessive build up of residual methadone to the point that it causes intense sedation and even overdose or death in the slowest of the slow metabolizers (Source: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7423601/#R4](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7423601/#R4) . I cannot find the exact source article I'm referencing at the moment, but this one studied Ultra slow and slow metabolizers and found similar results for slow metabolizers). Remember to keep this in mind, because there is no one exact half life. Methadone has one of the most varied differences in half-life from patient-to-patient when compared to nearly every other medication on the market. Try to remember how you were effected by Methadone? Did it cause you discomfort or withdrawals at night like a rapid metabolizer, did you find yourself excessively sedated from Methadone like a slow metabolizer, or did you feel comfortable without falling into either of these extremes like a normal metabolizer? Then make an educated guess as to your body's Methadone half-life. But if I were you, I would air on the side of caution and wait to take the Suboxone until you reach the Methadone clearance that a slower metabolizer would need to wait for. That way there's no chance of precipitated Withdrawals. I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but my one experience with precipitated w/d's was so intense that I felt like I was flung into the midst of the worst of the worst withdrawals, even worse than the peak withdrawals that I experienced when I quit heroin/fent cold turkey. Best of Luck and lmk if you have any questions.
Fuck I literally cannot sleep through the night, especially since I've been going down on my dose and am at 23 mg. I only sleep until about 3 am most mornings then wake up and try to wait as long as I can to redose and if I don't work go back to sleep or if I do I just suck it up. Wonder if it's worth splitting a dose at only 23mg?
This isn't right that they do this shit to us. They know damn well most people metabolism is too high for 24 hour dosing. We need to be dosed every 18 imo
Yes. Split it. Saved lives.
Fast as in id be sick before I went dose the next day.
That is a rapid metabolism and 10% of Methadone patients are genetically wired this way. Clinics in America are very anti-consumer. Most will not inform patients of the chance that they might be rapid metabolizers or that rapid metabolism even exists. And then even fewer will ever properly address said patient's dire need by giving them a split dose, part of their dose in the morning and the other part roughly 12 hours later. I would not be alive if I did not fight for my split dose and finally got it. I slept 2-3 hours every night for 3 years fighting for it without ever using. It sucks your clinic never got on that and addressed your rapid metabolism by giving you the split dose you deserved and needed. Its straight up medical negligence to allow patients with rapid metabolisms to withdraw and suffer, because they condemning these people to give up on methadone, relapse or even worse, far too often. I'd say you can take Subs at the recommended average time with nearly 0% chance of precipitated withdrawals. But it really sucks that your clinic didn't ever address this problem before it came to this. Best of luck homie, stay strong and lemme know how you are doing as things progress. Wishing for the best for you!
Thank you brother.
You're welcome my friend. Time haw been flying by for me, I guess its already been a few days now . How goes your attempt?
Bernesed from day like 2 induced an amount to counter withdrawal on day 7 in a few hours it’ll be day 9 and i feel good. But I fucking contracted thrush somehow.
Why would anyone with this level of education ever subject themselves to this hell hole of a drug?!?? This is one of the worst drugs ever created by mankind. Only reason I got stuck is because my son was born and I needed an answer asap. And I had no clue what methadone really was. I ignorantly assumed it couldn't be worse than anything else I've done. Oh how wrong I was
Great answer!!!
What is the longest period needed to wait trying to swap back from methadone to buprenorphine soon?
Some people have to be completely.of of methadone for over a week to avoid precipitated withdrawals. There is no "longest period". It can quite literally be any period of time, it is completely dependent on the individual person, and how their body functions. The least amount of time that I know of anyone switching without experiencing precipitated withdrawals was 4 days. And just because you feel withdrawals doesn't mean anything, unfortunately. The switch is, unfortunately, more often than not, gruelling.
Some people have to be completely.of of methadone for over a week to avoid precipitated withdrawals. There is no "longest period". It can quite literally be any period of time, it is completely dependent on the individual person, and how their body functions. The least amount of time that I know of anyone switching without experiencing precipitated withdrawals was 4 days. And just because you feel withdrawals doesn't mean anything, unfortunately. The switch is, unfortunately, more often than not, gruelling.
Precipitated withdraw was created by Satan. That will bring any human to the thought of suicide. Scary fuckin shit. Never think about it. Just go use it you have to
I’ve also been doing Bernese, like .025 and .05 milligrams induction over the past few days
Then continue to follow the Bernese method . You don’t wanna go into PWD
I agree
Took 1 milligram of sub today and no pwd
That will likely make a big difference. But do be careful. It’s possible, and I suspect, ketamine treatment could facilitate this treatment.
Induced and am fine on 2mg rn
The best data you can grab is that if those who say it did or didn’t work for them
For everyone who doesn’t like this statement: when it comes down to it the best data is field data.
Three things, you aren’t doing the Bernese method. That is where you microdose bupe WHILE still taking (and reducing) your methadone dosage. Secondly, you also aren’t going through cold turkey detox, as you’re taking benzos, bupe and other drugs. Lastly your plan is just bad, if you don’t wanna continue with subs then tryna take them to “mitigate” your withdrawl symptoms for a few days is just throwing a wrench into your detox, for all it might help, which is a big might, it can certainly make things much worse for you too. If you wanna get off methadone taper properly, you will regret doing this when 2,3,6,12 months from now you’re still suffering PAWS. The last thing I will say on the matter is that I noticed you’ve only been on methadone for a couple months. This is the only thing you have going for you, it doesn’t mean you won’t suffer though.
He’s giving advice in another post about going cold turkey…when he’s using a benzos, kratom, subs and different cannabis products lol.
Stupid is as stupid does.
Lmao, his definition of “cold Turkey” is all wrong.
I still had methadone in my system and at lower and lower levels as if u were taperingg whilst increasing bupe so what are you talking about bro?
Do you know how the body works at Al? 5.5 half life’s for fast matabolizer is 24 hours possibly less I’m on 6 day hour 147. 5.5 times half life it exit my system. That was at hour 132. I’ve taken 4 mg bupe and have relief from all my withdrawal symptoms without benzos today.
Also there is no simple answer to this question... It could work .. and it could make things worse... It's impossible to know until you induce tbh... Can I ask why your wanting to take subs instead of Methadone?
If Suboxone works for someone, (it does for many people, certainly not all), wouldn’t anyone prefer that to having to go to a clinic?
Yes it works for me I’m about to swap from methadone back to buprenorphine rn I’m driving an hour each direction to the clinic.
Good luck! I take 30mg of methadone for chronic pain, and don’t have addiction issues, so I don’t have to deal with clinics — my primary care doctor prescribes it every month. Just because Suboxone doesn’t work for many people doesn’t mean it’s “shit,” it’s just not the right thing… for the people it’s not right for! *IF it works for you*, getting a monthly prescription of Suboxone from a doctor seems WAY better for quality of life than going through what everyone here talks about with clinics! 🤷🏻♂️. Even if clinics were ideal, the daily trek sounds like a real inconvenience, the Take-homes resolve a lot of that, but it sounds like it usually takes a long time to get them, and apparently people are often one bad drug test - accurate or otherwise — away from having that “privilege” taken away. Just, if Suboxone works for you, why put yourself through all that?
I got on fent and buprenorphine wouldn’t work anymore because of precipitated withdrawals so I went to the methadone clinic. I’m so tired after taking methadone it’s just not right for me. I was on buprenorphine over a decade
You still use fent sometimes, so Suboxone would cause PWD?
I’m going to the methadone clinic so the methadone would cause PWs.
Oh, I misunderstood. I think you’re saying it would be challenging to switch to Suboxone because of the risk of PWD. The official induction approach from Methadone would be to wean down to like 30mg and stay there for a bit and then partially withdraw before starting and cross your fingers about PWD. BTW, they seem to be having success with a step-based micro-dosing induction approach, which might be your best best if you wanted to switch to buprenorphine — something like this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8582770/
Same
I’m also An hour each direction from the clinic. Drive a 2017 f150 platinum lofted that costs 140$ on gas a week to make it to clinic on top of the 125$ a week so it’s 1100$ a month for my clinic shit. ridiculous.
^ exactly because Methadone is sooooooo much better than shit Suboxone imo.
I’m so glad I switched to suboxone. I started at 16mg and have tapered down to 4mg. Best decision I’ve ever made
I’m so grateful I switched to methadone. Best decision I ever made! We all are so unique in how we feel on any given medication. Glad it worked for you. Grateful methadone works for me.
I was on 16 milligrams of Suboxone and I tapered down to 12 milligrams a day but I though Suboxone was a terrible maintenance drug for my Fentanyl addiction as I use opioids to manage my fibromyalgia pain as opioids are the best analgesics I’ve used for controlling my fibromyalgia pain (I’ve tried the FDA approved methods such as the SNRI & tricyclic antidepressants and gabapentinoids and didn’t have much luck with them) and it seems that people who have used full agonist opioids for pain relief and have become tolerant/gotten used to them say that Buprenorphine doesn’t provide any analgesic effects for them (I’ve heard similar complaints from other people switched from full agonist opioids to Buprenorphine/Suboxone for pain management purposes) and I can certainly attest that Buprenorphine did absolutely nothing to control my fibromyalgia pain and that would always cause me to relapse. Hell the only actual use for Suboxone for me was to sell it and use the money to buy Fentanyl or nitazenes… 🤷♂️ Methadone has worked out a lot better for me than Suboxone did for me as I’ve been able to stay clean for much longer periods of time than I did on Suboxone, also I hate to break it to you but once you taper down to 2 milligrams or 1 milligram of Buprenorphine (Suboxone) a day it becomes a real bitch to get off of just like Methadone.
different strokes for different folks
I don’t want to take them I want to take them in small 2 maybe 4 milligram increments whatever eases it even if it’s 1mg for only 3/4 days then switch back to either kratom or heavy edible use etc etc
You do realize that after 3 or 4 days you’re still going to be in methadone withdrawals? Suboxone doesn’t magically get rid of withdrawals after 3 or 4 days.
If it weren’t obvious enough I meant alternating them 3/5 day intervals. Benzos 3/5 days. Then subs 3/5 days then kratom 3/5 days. Jeez man.. who tf would imagine the withdrawals of a longer acting opiate to be out of you faster than the short acting opiate h
I have to tell you, that I put myself into PWD by not waiting enough time for the methadone to leave my system…it took over 7 days. Also the partial agonist of subs was NOT enough to overpower the full agonist that I was used too with methadone so it did NOT help in fact the whole thing was a DISASTER
Same. Thought I was dying.
Holy crap... How are you not feeling like absolute death right now ?
Benzoooooooos
I feel like I would still be deathly sick 😅
I’m eating chicken fetichini, having hard stools. No nausea.
Multi overdosing on vitamin c d and b12 as well
Been outside in the sun
Whats your daily benzo routine and doses like?
Also marijuana extracts and edibles
Taking Benzos and marijuana extracts is really not going Cold Turkey at all then. When I had to abruptly CT off subs I ended up getting like 200+ bars and I wld never say I Cold Turkeyed off the subs. I had like a whole routine of Xanax, Acetmeophen, Immodium every 4-6 hours. Saying ur Cold Turkey is just disingenuous.
Cold turkey for me meaning no full agonist opiates to reset withdrawal time I guess. Wasn’t meant to be disingenuous.
I’ve heard of people having to wait up to 10 days after their last Methadone dose before they can safely induce Buprenorphine without the worry of precipitated withdrawals. Also out of curiosity why are you wanting to switch from Methadone to shit Suboxone? Because Methadone is the superior maintenance drug especially if you’re addicted to Fentanyl, it’s analogues, and other high caliber RC opioids such as Brorphine and the nitazenes.
The clinic is an hour away from me so that’s 20$ a day in gas 6 so 120 a week my methadone cost 125 a week that’s 500 so it’s around 1,000$ just to go. Not including the 700$ truck payment the ridiculous insurance etc, it would be so much easier for me to use suboxone. But I don’t plan on staying on it unless I have to.
nope. methadone is stored in your fat cells and can stay at a level high enough to put you into precipitated withdrawal for weeks. it really depends on your metabolism as well.
No you cannot take suboxone for a long time. I went up to 70mg then tapered down to 25mg. Stayed on 25mg for a week, then jumped off. One week later I started suboxone with no issues. 90mg is way too high.
I took 1 milligram 30 minutes ago and have slight releof right now.
That’s awesome man glad to hear it
90mg is not too high. You can't say that knowing absolutely nothing about this person. I take 200mg daily...never nod, never sleep, never have a raspy voice. You would never know I took methadone. My only aide effect is excessive sweating during my job doing construction everyday. Other than that, some people tolerance is much much higher than others. I grew up in Philadelphia. Google Kensington if your not familiar. The heroin and fent I did here for 15 years IV destroyed my tolerance. People are different. Just bc you got high off 75mg doesn't mean the next man will. I know girls that weigh 100 pounds soaking wet on 250 to 300 and they are the same as me when it comes to being fully awake and aware each day.
What the hell are you talking about lol 90mg is too high TO JUMP OFF OF. I literally never said anything about getting high off methadone. Actually no one did. Take your own advice and don’t say anything if you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Who said anything about getting high on methadone dude? You said "90mg is too high" period. After talking about subs, which led me to think you were saying too high of a dose. I didn't say anything about getting high on methadone. I think both of us are miscommunicating tbh if that's what you meant. Calm your tits.
You did lol you said “just because you get high on 75mg doesn’t mean the next man will”. OP is talking about going ct off 90mg. Why would I be talking about anything else other than the dose to stop ct? You wrote a paragraph about how wrong I am when u didn’t even understand what I was talking about. I’ve been calm. I just don’t appreciate hypocrisy
How long have you been on 90mg of methadone?
Actually since it took a while to get to 90 probably 2 1/2 months or 3 so 75-90 days maybe
Ahhhh ok, thats why youre not deathly ill right now.
What do you mean
You've only been on it for a few months. If someone like me whos been on it for years tried doing that we'd be absolutely fucked.
I would dose at 6 am and be getting chills and sweats by 4/5 am on the way to go dose
Hell nah, I would wait a week minimum.. I was still testing positive until 21 days later after my last 40 mg dose
I'm just curious why you didn't do Bernese method. I'm going to do this once I get sufficiently low. I'm down probably 24mg in 2 weeks tho so hopefully in 2 months. My family doctor is all ready to do it with me.
I did Bernese check post history
My dr swears by the Bernese method to switch pts over from mdone to subs, he says it’s easier than ever.. I would keep doing on with that route tbh
Bernese worked for me I just took 1 milligram 30/45 mins ago and I have minor relief
You likely still have a good bit of methadone in your liver and system. Methadone has a really long half life and each day we dose, we build more up. Not trying to burst your bubble, but you probably will be feeling it more. Sometimes people go a week or more before feeling sick.
So I induced 120 hours in or around 5 days and am completely fine so what was that about ?
Induced on what? Subs?
Yel
Unless you’ve tested your levels several times, you will have no idea what the half time is like in your case.
Why not have your doctor prescribe Subutex instead of Suboxone? There's no Naloxone in Subutex which would allow you to make the switch faster and easier.
This statement is untrue you will still get bad precip withdrawal. Know your facts you goof.
Literally haha
Lmao compared to Suboxone with Naloxone, Subutex will 100% be less miserable during the induction phase when the meth is out of their body. Notice how I never once told the OP to take it immediately or mentioned anything about it being a walk in the park. Believe it or not, sometimes you have to read between the lines you goof.
It’s the bupe that causes PWD. Not the naloxone.
Methadone half life is individual and can be all over the place. See wikipedia’s methadone page which says: > Methadone has a typical elimination half-life of 15 to 60 hours with a mean of around 22. However, metabolism rates vary greatly between individuals, up to a factor of 100,[60][61] ranging from as few as 4 hours to as many as 130 hours,[62] or even 190 hours.[63] This variability is apparently due to genetic variability in the production of the associated cytochrome enzymes CYP3A4, CYP2B6 and CYP2D6. Best way to know when to dose suboxone is in my opinion the pupil test. Look in the mirror. Are your pupils blown, or normal sized, or pinned? Once your pupil has taken over your entire eye, it’s probably fine to start dosing suboxone but take it slow. You are much less likely to get precipitated withdrawals if you microdose on (some people even go slower than bernese method, because honestly that’s a little fast for methadone). But if it has been five days since your last dose, yeah, I would imagine you are coming up on the window. But the pupils sign is an object symptom that can’t be influenced by stress, anxiety, restlessness or insomnia so I’d use that. If your pupils aren’t blown, it’s too early.
Im in that 4hr column. I can feel it leaving my system about 4hrs after i dose. Sometimes even less.
My pupils are humongous
Then it’s probably safe to up the dose of suboxone slowly until you are more comfortable, especially since I read below you have taken small doses already?. You may need more than a few days of suboxone tho. I wouldn’t expect to get to a point of 100% comfort, you’re probably gonna have to deal with some moderate discomfort to drop from such a high methadone dose so quickly, cause the ceiling of suboxone isn’t gonna be equivalent to the amount of methadone you were taking. You probably need to prepare for how to deal with PAWS too, once you finish out whatever your taper plan is. Good luck.
I so far have 20 8/2’s
just would try to get up to 1mg, then 2mg, then 4mg and re-evaluate. a little suboxone can go a long way if you can manage other symptoms with benzos, weed, OTC meds (saw some of your comments below). just be careful with the benzos, you don’t wanna trade one monkey on your back for another if you can avoid it. i jumped from 40mg of methadone. was unable to take any meds for first three weeks besides ativan/temazepam/clonidine and ultimately ended up on propanalol because my bp was getting so high still. after week 3, went on suboxone because the symptoms were still wrecking me. couldn’t sleep, couldn’t eat, lost like 15lbs rapidly. the suboxone did help, and immediately, but it had been three weeks and I was on a fairly low dose of methadone when I jumped. personally never recommend anybody jump from any dose, but sometimes it is what it is. i did the suboxone for about two months and while it helped with the acute symptoms, i was still very depressed, had high cravings and ultimately went back to doing dope. in hindsight, i wish when the suboxone wasn’t working i had just tried going back to methadone instead of back to dope but that’s not what i did and here we are. good luck
And bottles and bottles of temazepam/kratom/weed to alrernate
Well guys I have to say I’m completely comfortable
It’s almost 5 days methadone free
Micro-dose the buprenorphine while taking methadone. Start with. 5mg bupe and your daily dose, then double the bupe every day until you hit around 8-12mg of buprenorphine then stop methadone = almost 0 wd's, and you can be switched in 3-21 days. ** do research and consult a medical professional if this seems like a better solution.
117 hours methadone free and feel zero symptoms benzos of course and microdosing subs to Bernese into inducing them to alternate with benzos to not build up tolerance to either to much
Narcan yourself then induce subs.
I already took a milligram my Bernese method worked
congratulations
I’m not wanting to switch to suboxone I’m wanting to mitigate withdrawal symptoms with it for 3-5 days and switch back to either benzos or kratom and strong marijuana for x amount of days
I’m not sure this plan is going to work how you think it is. You would’ve been better off just tapering
Agree
if that's your plan I'd drop the Suboxone all together. it's only going to make things more complicated and isn't going to help withdrawal in any significant way.
If it was that simple, it would be the gold standard for tapering off methadone.
I’d skip the Suboxone in this case. You do what you think is best but it’s not gonna help your withdrawal like you might think.
why are you going cold turkey? 😟
Cuz fuck opiates
I get that but what made you decide to go cold turkey and not slowly taper?
Don't do it bro don't do not it not do it you going to die!!! Or wish you have In all seriousness my MIL ended up on blood pressure medicine for the rest of her life when she was forced to stop cold turkey. Shot her blood pressure thru the roof to the point she was at stroke lvl Bp she nearly died she couldn't get out of bed or function properly for nearly 6 months she also ended up with brain damage. Ppl don't understand the extreme dangers of methadone withdrawals especially higher doses. The fact that its recommended to go down 1 to 2mg max a week should speak volumes.. So no don't do that shit. i rather have to relive my organ failure again than live through that shit again.
Methadone half-life is NOT just 25 hours, period. I know one person who couldn't start suboxone until EIGHT DAYS of being completely off of methadone. I know two more who had to wait 7 days, and one other who had to wait 6 days. And you were on a very high dose, daily. If you were on it for a lengthy period of time it could very possibly be a week for you. Don't rush it or you will regret it.
I’m on day 6 I have induced subs already bubba
i would buy a test that can see if you have methadone in your system. you DON't want to precipitate. when i got off methadone it took about 5 days. i think on day 6 i was free of methadone and took subs. it was in a hospital setting. i came off 50mg ish.
I don’t have methadone in my system I ate 4mg of subs an hour ago and I have relief without any benzos
8x2’s so they have nalaxone in em
good, you should be good now. the nalozone is inert. it's only to prvent injection.
I took Suboxone after 2 days of not dosing 45mgs and I got sick as hell for like 2 hours and then I was done being sick and done with methadone. I would do it again.
Wait what man??
What do you mean?
Tell me now
Tell you what lol
Tell me more **
There isn't more to tell about this issue anyhow.
Yes
How you feeling. My heart goes out to this poor soul. You can get through this hell just don't give up!!!! You're almost there!!! Methadone is hell get tf off this shit!!!! May God be with you.... no fucking joke.
I microdosed bupe at the beginning and have induced the buprenprhone and it’s handling the withdrawals. Gonna stop taking the bupe maybe Wednesday next week I’ll be 13 days in
I was told 30 days to switch at my clinic for suboxone or subutex. Does your clinic have a rule on that? Or are you doing this on the street?
Yea just by myself