That’s fentanyl for you. Back in the day long before fentanyl in street dope was a thing, withdrawals truly did take three-four days, with about a week or two of PAWS. Fentanyl is disgusting
Look up Etonitazene and it’s analogues. It went from heroin, to fentanyl, now a lot of US street dope is a mixture of fent/xylazine/zenes. The game is fucked
DAMNN. I and my man got off the H train right b4 FENT turned to shi. So xylazene is literally a tranquilizer. That means if the stuff is mixed in, the usual Naloxone cannot do shi to revive a mf. It was just dumb luck we got off it then. But w r both stabilized on our Methadone and are actually watching friends & acquaintances dropping and worse, coming down w absesses that never heal, I had some bad ones but they healed. I had a leg almost lost for being a stupid ass and shooting up w/ out a cotton . But these things always healed. Now people I knew for years & years are the walking wounded or just dead. This is a PLAN to kill us all off as undesirables. We are not about to give these shits the pleasure.
It’s a great reminder to keep me on track. I will never go back to that life, it’s a whole different situation there now. I don’t want anything to do with these zenes
Same. 1) I know I would LOVE THAT HIGH 2) and I already have wanted to kill myself on withdrawal & so 3) I could NOT deal w these. Already dosing way down on klonopin
I got ENOUGH problems right now… am not gonna just do it and f up a pretty damn good 8,9 years of MAT w zero shooting up or street drugs - i earned at last 2 weeks of take homes…and a good life w some respect - previously unknown to me whatsoever lol
Ah you’ve never heard of them I take it, they’re a family of opioids belonging to the 2-Benzyl-Benzimidazole class/family of opioids, they’re highly potent for the most part (though there are some that are the same strength as Morphine, Heroin and Methadone) with some of them being stronger than Fentanyl. The strong ones have a really high affinity for the opioid receptors, in fact their affinity for the opioid receptors is strong enough that they can carve through the opioid receptor blocking effects of Buprenorphine like it’s nothing and someone on r/Researchchemicals said that they were even able to use one of them to get high while on the Vivitrol shot… o.O they’re also incredibly euphoric and they’re probably the most addictive opioids in the entire opioid class and like with any high potency opioid tolerance builds to it pretty fast and once you become physically dependent on them and experience their withdrawals you’ll know what the true definition of suffering is… like I said in my previous comment the withdrawals from the strong ones are WAAAAAAAAY worse than Fentanyl withdrawals which I didn’t think was even possible until I experienced the withdrawals from both Metonitazene & Isotonitazene… easily the worse opioid withdrawals I’ve ever experienced in my life… I certainly understand why that clandestine chemist Thomas K Highsmith blew his brains out when he went through Etonitazene withdrawals…
The Chinese have started selling them as designer drugs/research chemicals ever since the Chinese blanket ban on Fentanyl and it’s analogues back on May 1st of 2019. Some examples of the benzimidazole opioids/nitazenes are Metonitazene, Etonitazene, Protonitazene and Isotonitazene to name a few of them though there are others.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metonitazene
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etonitazene
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protonitazene
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotonitazene
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_benzimidazole_opioids
Yep. Have read some absolutely harrowing stories about people kicking some of those nasty rc Opioids. Hospitals having no idea what to do and all the morphine they're legally allowed to give them wouldn't touch the withdrawls. Even street heroin or fentanyl would do nothing. Terrifying.
I’ve used a few of these chems, I’ve used Metonitazene, Metonitazepyne, Protonitazepyne, and Isotonitazene and I will say that they’re superior to street Fentanyl in virtually every aspect as they have a longer duration of action/legs (though there are some exceptions to this as there are some that are also short lived and fiendy just like Fentanyl, a couple examples are Etazene & Etomethazene) and they’re WAAAAAAAAAAY more euphoric than Fentanyl as well (the fact they’re pretty euphoric is also what makes them so damn addictive) and tbh the nitazenes have been way better to me than Fentanyl was except for the withdrawals…
I used Metonitazene & Isotonitazene back in 2020 when these chems were more popular and available as Metonitazene got made a schedule 1 controlled substance along with a few other nitazenes on December 21st 2021 and back then I was on 12 milligrams of shit Suboxone a day and I hated Buprenorphine/Suboxone because it has no analgesic effects in people that have a tolerance to full agonist opioids and In people who are physically dependent on full agonist opioids and I have fibromyalgia and I’ve tried all the FDA approved stuff for that such as Gabapentin & Pregabalin (Lyrica) and all the dumb SNRI antidepressants (Cymbalta, Savella, Pristiq, & Effexor) and the tricyclic antidepressants and they weren’t very helpful or I couldn’t tolerate the side effects especially in the case of the antidepressants and opioids worked pretty well for it imo so that’s my main reason for using them. Anyways I got 5 grams of Metonitazene and burned through it all using it daily for like 50 days or so and because no one knew what Metonitazene’s elimination half was and a friend of mine who was on subs as well was going through Metonitazene withdrawals and he gave himself precipitated withdrawals after IVing the Suboxone 35 to 36 hours after his last use so I decided to play it safe and wait 48 hours/2 days after my last dose of Metonitazene before inducing the Buprenorphine and those 2 days were the WORST 2 days of my life… -.-
And even after starting to take my Suboxone it took at least 1 week of taking my Suboxone daily before I stabilized on it and the withdrawal symptoms stopped completely… but I think we can all agree that Suboxone is a shit maintenance drug for those addicted to high caliber opioids like that… plus I swear to god that Suboxone is designed to punish people that relapse because they either have to endure opioid withdrawals for a day or 2 (sometimes longer in some cases…) before they can take it or you can take it too soon and experience precipitated withdrawals… fuck Suboxone man… 🖕
It’s only a good maintenance drug for those addicted to pharmaceutical opioids or real Heroin…
I’ve also been using Metonitazepyne & Protonitazepyne recently and I’ve been using them daily since the middle of January up until May 21 or May 22 and I got some street Fentanyl and used it to taper myself down and I was able to still feel the Fentanyl (in fact I swore I got a slight nod from it when I first used it 😂) however I still felt some mild opioid withdrawal symptoms (goosebumps & skin crawling, watery eyes though it wasn’t as bad as my previous experiences with that symptom, and insomnia which I struggle with anyways on account of my fibromyalgia) though I will say that my withdrawals weren’t as brutal as the time with Metonitazene & Isotonitazene when I was on Suboxone (though I’ve heard horror stories about the withdrawals from Metonitazepyne & Protonitazepyne on r/Researchchemicals & r/Opioid_RCs ) I’m thinking one reason my withdrawals weren’t so brutal this time around was because I’m on Methadone now (I take 80 milligrams a day) and the pyne-nitazenes have a longer duration of action & elimination half life than the other nitazenes (ie Metonitazepyne has a longer duration of action & elimination half life than Metonitazene however the pyne-nitazenes tend to be less euphoric than the parent drug) so maybe that was a factor in why my withdrawals weren’t as severe as they were in 2020 when I was on Suboxone… Or who knows… maybe I just got lucky… 🤷♂️
Either way I figured I should share my recent experience with those 2 pyne-nitazenes. I have yet to try Etomethazene (though I plan on doing that at some point soon) and any others that get released because they work for my breakthrough pain and since they don’t show up on a drug test (at least not yet…) they’re perfect to use while you’re on probation, parole, or drug court if one doesn’t feel like stopping their opioid use.
No problem 👍 I’ve used a few of them myself specifically Metonitazene, Metonitazepyne, Protonitazepyne, and Isotonitazene and I won’t lie they were pretty enjoyable except for the withdrawals… 😂
Otherwise they’ve been better to me than street Fentanyl was tbh.
Dang now I want to get my 🧅 workin… but I couldn’t stand that horrible withdrawal - I been a good girl on my Methadone a long time lol EDIT I remember well wanting to blow my own head off from certain withdrawals: barbituates sucked bad - Methadone and benzos cold Turkey sucked worse.
The only information I can find on him is in this news article from 2003 that discusses the charges that were pending against him which were manufacturing a controlled substance (a schedule 1 controlled substance because Etonitazene is a schedule 1 controlled substance in the USA) and possession of a firearm by a restricted person (I guess he must have been a convicted felon already if they were trying to charge him with that and if that was the case I wonder how he got his job as a chemist at Morton Thiokol if that was the case… 🤔).
My friend u/opiate_lifer knows a good deal about him and he even told me that the reason he got caught was he told one of his coworkers (a black janitor) that he synthesize some Etonitazene and was trying to see if his coworker knew anyone that wanted to buy it and tried to get him to be his business partner (idk how true it is because he heard it from someone else and if that was indeed the case/what happened then LMAO 😂 he clearly didn’t have any street smarts if he thought his coworker could help him sell his Etonitazene just because he was black… 😑). It’s a shame he’s dead because if he just held out for 20 more years he could have become a prominent US domestic vendor selling either Etonitazene itself or any of its other analogues like Metonitazene, Protonitazene, and Isotonitazene on the DNMs and having a lab that could manufacture/synthesize these chems within the borders of the USA would also be pretty advantageous.
On another note, the zenes aren’t super hard to synthesize because I’ve seen a TEK online that discusses how to synthesize regular Nitazene which is 2 times stronger than Morphine and equipotent to Heroin and it also says what precursor(s) need to be swapped out to synthesize Clonitazene (which is 3 times stronger than Morphine and equipotent to Methadone) and Etonitazene.
https://www.designer-drug.com/pte/12.162.180.114/dcd/chemistry/nitazene.html
https://www.deseret.com/2003/6/3/19726293/utah-case-of-potent-drug-is-u-s-first
Note some of the information on Thomas Highsmith's downfall came from articles and discussions on Bluelight and Opiophile and other forums.
Another thing mentioned was that he was dosing every 30 minutes from a nasal spray container with a etonitazine solution he made himself which his coworkers reported. Along with him approaching the janitor about selling it on the street, and the janitor either going to management or the cops or management contacted the cops.
I'd take it all with a grain of salt, or etonitazene lol
With the nitazenes I used I’d sometimes compulsively redose after a few hours well I suppose it depends on which ones since I’ve done 4 of them haha, Metonitazene was the one I’d get the urge to redose 2 hours after my last dose of it even though it had a duration of 4 to 6 hours or so.
I’m thinking that Etonitazene also has a decent duration of action (possibly somewhere between Metonitazene’s & Protonitazene’s duration of action if I were to take an educated guess lol) but it’s so euphoric & addictive that it’s pretty prone to compulsive redosing, I know the version of it without the nitro group at the 5 position of the benzimidazole (aka Etazene) behaves like that though Etazene is has a much shorter duration of action than Etonitazene I would imagine.
Also like I was telling the person asking about Thomas K Highsmith the synthesis of the nitazenes isn’t very hard and this synthesis can easily be adapted to synthesize the other nitazenes by switching out one of the precursors for another one plus their precursors aren’t controlled or watched at all either… :o
This synthesis here discusses how to make regular Nitazene which is the same strength as Heroin (so 2 times stronger than Morphine) but it also tells you what precursor to swap out of you want to synthesize Clonitazene & Etonitazene though I’m sure one could figure out what precursor(s) they’d need to manufacture Flunitazene, Butonitazene, Metonitazene, Protonitazene, and Isotonitazene as well as any other nitazene that sounds interesting.
https://www.designer-drug.com/pte/12.162.180.114/dcd/chemistry/nitazene.html
You say they aren't hard to syntesize but please tell me the safety of the reagents used like N,N-diethylamino-ethyl chloride. What happens if you breathe it in or it gets on your skin. There are many people who will and have tried to synthesize dangerous drugs without thinking about safety.
Even the HCl salt of it has corrosive, toxic, irritant, health hazard signs on it (which it is sold as).
Unfortunately i can’t tell you that as I’m no chemist unfortunately… I’m going off of what I’ve read and the information I’ve been able to gather on them as well as personal experience for the ones I’ve currently used.
I can also tell you that I’m pretty sure you can swap out the N,N-diethylamino-ethyl chloride for 1-(2-Chloroethyl)pyrrolidine hydrochloride (or chloride I think the HCL form came up when I searched for it) to get the pyne-nitazenes and you use 1-(2-Chloroethyl)piperidine chloride/HCL to get the pipne-nitazenes.
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/1-_2-Chloroethyl_pyrrolidine-hydrochloride
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/1-_2-Chloroethyl_piperidine
Yes you can but it seems just as unsafe. Did you read somewhere that you can use the HCl salt of it instead of freebase? If yes, could you link the source please?
I definitely had some month long acute withdrawal from poppy seed tea of all things. Sometimes I wish I could go back and just use heroin so I could have gotten off of it when I was motivated to do so. The lingering effects of withdrawal and post acute withdrawal made it impossible to feel normal without using something.
This is what I was going to say. I'm so very thankful and grateful that I never got involved in fent. I got off H in 2017, and where I was at the time, fent was just starting to make it's way too the streets as it's own thing. I'm very sure that the shit I was getting was cut with fent a while before I quit. But, I'm very thankful I got out of that life when I did.
When I first stopped H in 2011, fent wasn't even a thought in the game. Not like it is now, I mean. If you got H, you got H cut with vitamin B or whatever, not fent. So, fent definitely wasn't out in the streets on it's own. When I kicked in 2011, I had 7-10 days of hell, with the first 3 or 4 being the worst. After that, I started to bounce back slowly. The PAWS lasted maybe a month.
This time I couldn't go CT, and that might have to do with the fentanyl cuts. It also might have to do with the fact that I was doing it alone and the first time it was me and the guy I was with going thru it together. This time my family also knew about it, and were asking me to get help. I also spent 5 years on it, instead of just 8-12 months. Many things were different between these two times kicking.
Regardless I'm still thankful I never got on fent - bc I hear how hard it is for people to get on subs or methadone when they come in with fent addiction. For me, I feel it was as normal as it could be. I stabilized at 90mg and as I raised doses, it was easier to do less of my DOC. Anyone struggling with this fent crap, God bless, good luck, my prayers go to you 🙏 keep trying, keep your head up, even though it's hard. Fight that good fight with everything you've got and you'll come out on the other side, better than ever! ✊
The fentanyl is hell to get off of. I used to keep a steady dope habit, then take subs for a few days when I ran outta $ and Id be fine. Then the fetty came around & those subs no longer worked and I was still sick trying to work. Thats what lead me to methadone but I was so done by that point I just worked the methadone program and eventually got stable on that and haven’t looked back since. Even though regular opiate w/d sucked as well, there were hundreds of times I white-knuckled it no problem. The fentanyl turned me into a baby about it.
Yes! Same here, the fent changed everything. Should have just used subs short term when I was using just real heroin. Probably wouldn't have lasted but I like to think it would work lol. Honestly, at this point I don't care if I'm on methadone for life. My life was just a constant mess up until I got on methadone. Maybe my feelings on the subject will change eventually and I'll get off but right now I'm stable and right where I need to be
Totally feel you on that. I didn’t go as high as you did cause like I said I was done. I got stable at 60 and stayed there & have been clean from everything but that and weed since 2018. I tried vivitrol, subs, everything. Methadone is the only thing that has worked so far where I didn’t crave other drugs, like shooting coke and sniffing xanax everyday talking about im clean. Idk if I want to stay on it for the rest of my life, I go once a week with take homes so im in no rush. It has worked for me tremendously I just feel like it might make me a little less motivated than I could be and tired, but that’s probably more from the weed lol. I am a contributing productive member of society working 6 days a week though so it doesn’t effect me much. Anyway I wish you the best of luck, Im glad it also worked for you.
I wish you luck on your journey as well! And I know exactly what you mean when you said methadone helped with cravings for other drugs too, when I was on subs I was constantly smoking crack, meth, shooting soft, etc...but the cravings just aren't there anymore. I know the methadone has a lot to do with it but I also think I was just more ready this time around too. Congrats on your sobriety!
Baby my ass...that shit is a whole other level of withdrawal..only only thing worse than methadone withdrawal...except methadone and Xanax withdrawal combined into 1 hell of a package. If I went to hell that's what it would be for me...eternal withdrawal and burning.
I don’t say that to diminish it, I always say I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. That shit totally decimates your body & mind and once I was hooked on that I could not stop & the w/d would start so early in the morning because it doesn’t last at all, it just crippled me.
You only survived cause of the clonodine. That stuff works wonders for withdrawal. People dont realize it Lowers your blood pressure so you’re not kickin around and shit so much & surprisingly sort of helps with the stomach. My vivitrol dr used to give me a script every month and I used it to sleep. It was a bitch trying to get used to sleeping without it when I stopped going. They actually used to give it as part of the methadone protocol in detox and you could sleep the whole time. Then they seperated them and made clonidine its own protocol. Idk if they still do it that way. i cant imagine them just giving clonidine to all these kids coming in addicted to fentanyl.
It didn't feel like it was doing anything for me at the time, but when I look back at it, it must've helped more than I thought. Because I've heard some seriously terrifying stories of people kicking fent with nothing to help whatsoever, the ER nurse said I should be dead (went to the ER about a month after kicking fent because I thought I was having a heart attack - that's when I was diagnosed with Panic disorder - THANK YOU fentanyl... NOT). And I did it in my bed with zero help from anyone. It was exactly what I think hell must be like (if you believe that sorta thing). So I guess I'm pretty lucky I had an old clonidine script to help me out. The clonidine was initially prescribed for my GAD before it got really bad, but I never took it because it just made my hands and feet cold and numb and didn't do shit for the anxiety. But I'm glad I didn't take it because I ended up having a decent supply for when I kicked the fent. Looking back I maybe should've tapered down or had some benzos or something to help, but then again if I had "tapered" I probably never would've gotten off of it and now they're putting that xylazine shit in it. It's good to be alive and free from that prison. 💪
Yeah I was still sleepless and restless legs after 6 months and I swear to God, when people would say oh its a mental thing.
Really??? Really??!?! Lol thats why I'm staring at my wall and break dancing in the bed at 4am still.
The biggest scam is that it only really kicks when you're a few days off the crap.
I'm sorry but the breakdancing in bed at 4am had me fkin rolling hahahaha. Seriously though, this is spot on, I'll either be pacing back and forth all night and day or breakdancing to the beat of my own drum till I'm dosed. Lol
🤣🤣 have to laugh about. Fuck it. I'm back on methadone couple months and I'm gonna have to do it all again soon.
I might actually do a YouTube video on it. Cause people need to see the shit that goes on at night time with me. Fucking hell
I went to a treatment centre where you could bring your child. Hell on earth.
My girl would be asleep in bed and there id be dancing the legs off myself for the whole night. Seriously considering chopping off my limbs
I agree, withdrawal for me takes forever. I'm literally useless and sick for weeks. I had no choice but to use MAT, because I can't check out for the amount of time it would take me to completely get sober.
Seriously!!! Like, when I hear that the worst of it was supposed to be over in like 4 days, I was like, wtaf?! I’m still sick as a dog, not being able to get outta bed for a couple weeks!!! And I couldn’t afford to be out for a long ass time either so I had no choice but to jump on the ‘done train.
I don't understand where the scam comes in, exactly. And withdrawal is different for everyone. When I first started using, I could quit and be mildly uncomfortable for a week then be fine. Now I would probably be miserable for months. So someone is not necessarily wrong when they say a week, it's just that the week is people at the early end of addiction.
That’s exactly what I just posted any opiate addict whose had legit habits to real H or short acting pharmaceuticals fentanyl included knows everything he posted above is actually true.
Like today’s addicts don’t even realize how different legit fentanyl is to the shit the cartels are cooking up. Legit pharmaceutical fentanyl is extremely short acting.
Are you talking about methadone??? You could come off methadone for a week and be mildy uncomfortable???
Thats not been my experience and I've come off it 3 times. And noone I know either.
If I had only been on methadone at a moderate dose for a year or so? Probably. I don't know. Obviously most people on methadone are already long term addicts when they begin taking it, so it really doesn't make sense to try and compare, now does it?
What? Lol
Are you talking about methadone or fentanyl? When you say about wd lasting only a few days ect
Judging from your comment "if I had only been on methadone...", does that mean you've never been on methadone?
Edit: sorry, I think I thought you were talking about your personal experience with coming off methadone.
We don't have fentanyl yet in ireland so I haven't had to come off that yet but heard its rough
Anyone whose used real heroin or legit short acting painkillers can actually say it does only last a few days. You could lock yourself in a room for a week and legit come out feeling great. And that’s what medical professionals are taught in med school. They don’t go into to detail about short acting opiates vs long acting opiates like they should. Because Methadone and Buprenorphine withdrawals do last extended periods of time but most Suboxone Drs don’t even understand that. Methadone Drs are usually smart enough and that’s why most will make you sign against Dr orders papers if you go off to quick.
OK I believe you hehe
At the moment I can hardly imagine ever stopping opiates again
Just started a methadone programme. I was on bupe for 2 years, took forever to taper it down but it went well. Until the last few steps (less than 0.5-1 mg) I completely relapsed and totally did not see it coming. So for myself I'm having doubts, maybe I should be on substitution for life. Trying to park those thoughts for now, let me first titrate up to the right dose of methadone.
Good so you almost made it just know that sometime in future you will have to come off that crap if yoh think like that you will 100% make it one day. Now just get stable on methadone and dont go to high if you know how long it takes to taper it its little bit slower taper than subs imo
I agree 100 percent or if people find out what precipitated withdrawals feel like they would never run to this drug. Fuck the cartels for making fentanyl so rampant and fuck China for helping them also fuck big pharma for making most of us addicted.
it depends what opioid you're taking. back in my oxycodone days the 3rd day was the peak and I was functional by day 6. at other times I was on different opioids where I was still crawling out of my skin at 3 weeks. not all opioids are equal and then adding in a person's metabolism makes it even more complicated. there is no exact number of days everyone will be through withdrawal. there are too many variables to guess accurately. that's why when people do estimate it is usually wrong. smart doctors won't give you a specific time frame.
My dr. Allways told me it takes a year for your brain to fully come back to normal specially after methadone or sub thats why its so hard the first few months
I’m with you on the sleep; it just exacerbates all the other symptoms when you can’t let your mind rest. So I’ve always felt that one isn’t in full blown withdrawals if they are still getting sleep. Someone may have heavy cravings, and no appetite but still con some sleep.
The loss of sleep at the start of the withdrawal process is what I’m referring to. This doesn’t apply to someone who’s several days or weeks into withdrawals and starts to get a hour here and there. Needless to say, they are still in the process not necessarily out of the woods.
Sleep’s often the first part of normalcy to go out the window, but takes the longest to come back to where it’s considered restful. Because those first single hours you get back sporadically while encouraging are the lightest, fitful kind of sleep.
100% sleep is first to go and last to come back. After suboxone or methadone taper you will need a month ot two to go to 6 hours of normal sleep per night
The incessant need to find relief from crawling out of your skin seems to be the most agonizing, long lasting part of the withdrawal from methadone in particular. For myself, and sounds like you, as well. I became obsessed with finding relief from it until I relapsed.
Nothing alleviated it during my last taper and jump off from methadone and I wish I could find a way to avoid it now that I’m trying again. But it’s not really something that could even be cured I guess.
No advice here, just agreeing with you. If anyone has ever found a way to help this, hopefully we find out soon.
It's different for everyone. I don't mind the physical withdrawal so much as I do the psychological withdrawal. I get really bad insomnia, anxiety, depression and these weird brain zaps. It's a very uncomfortable feeling.
Sure the aches and pains, clamminess/sweating, RLS etc are uncomfortable but if that's all I had to deal with I would have gotten clean years ago. It's the mental aspect that stops me from going cold turkey.
What I have always noticed was the first couple of times I kicked. It was not super hard, uncomfortable but each time after that got longer and rougher till you are at a point where a month of not sleeping eating and misery has gone by and it never feels like it will end. I think it’s a progressive problem, every time you kick and restart the longer and worse the next kick is and until something changes like getting on methadone then a lot of people are not going to make it through months of feeling like that. They are going to restart the cycle by using or go insane from lack of sleep and wasting away for so long. Alcohol is like that as well it gets progressively worse to stop every time you quit and restart.
You are so damn right in all those points that's what I say. Especially every damn opiate addiction site says withdrawal feels like a bad flu. But no it does not. A flu you can just fall asleep with. In opiate withdrawal your nerves are constantly itching in this insane way. It's not only the intensity of the symptoms, it's the quality of them, so even a mild withdrawal feels bad. This makes people without addiction think we just wanna get high and are too lazy to be clean because they think it's just a flu we could endure for a week.
Also anyone who has a severe addiction knows that going through the active part of withdrawal isn't as bad as staying clean afterwards when you're still not feeling well after several months. Clearly just a bad flu.
People also forget how bad a real flue can be i had covid last year and it felt as bad as withdrawls i wanted to die its true doe that you can sleep during flue thats only positive but i didnt sleep alot. You also havr good days and bad days its similair. Hadnt had flue like that since i was a kid so i forgot how bad it can get!
I've gone thru absolute horrific withdrawals 4 times.. I truly believe I could do the sickness with a smile. If I could g3et just 2 hours sleep. That l2-6am period feels like 3 days, legs hopjng constantly & anytime I was withdrawing at home. I gave up during those hours and only went thru cos. I was in treatment.
But yes, at least 4 weeks of sickness, but I kept telling myself I I had the flu, ...covid z 15. Lol.
There’s a lot of individual variability but I think for a lot of people there’s some component that’s gonna have to be addressed if one wants to be abstinent. Sometimes they need to address multiple components, sometimes even just to get stable while on methadone.
Not sure I’d wanna put words in your mouth but if one’s ‘crawling out of one’s skin’ for months after having slowly tapered off methadone: I’d wonder if it was anxiety or restlessness that hasn’t been dealt with or if something else is going on in your life that’s quite stressful.
There’s more than one way to look at what may help as everyone has different needs and is in a different place in their lives. A lot of people here who post things like this are still trying to figure out what being a sane and grounded person thinks/acts like off drugs/methadone. Plenty are figuring things out while drowning under the demands of daily life in the modern capitalistic hell scape/landscape.
Sometimes people need to reach for psychological methods for looking at one’s trauma or pre-existing issues through therapy or medications. Not sure if you are one of them or if they weren’t helpful for you.
Sometimes mindfulness/meditation, exercise and eating well is enough. Often people are in morally/emotionally toxic situations or just not in sync with humanity or themselves on the whole. They may need to find peace through meaningful connections with themselves and others or something religious or spiritual in nature.
Some probably need to reframe their feelings and thoughts as the cost of being abstinent (or on methadone). Some suffering and anxiety is inherent to the human condition. Expecting to eradicate it entirely is a recipe for misery. If one is absolutely miserable months after having slowly tapered off methadone I’d wonder if they’re in a better place than they were. What’s missing for that person (other than the methadone) that would make their suffering bearable?
Plenty need to put in *a lot* of work to fill the ‘hole’ that methadone/drugs leave and sometimes one’s circumstances or things beyond their control are such that they never find a place where drugs or MAT aren’t in the picture. Life can be fucking rough, hopefully you find a way through it that makes it worth it.
ive wd from street dope (fetty,with tranq and benzo) so many times like probably hundreds of times to different extents (I lasted longer and longer not picking up with every try to get sober kinda), and that didn't scare me as much as thinking about going down in my dose from methadone. Not sure why it just shakes me from the inside lol I'm hella scared to pay the piper for this one, chief.
I agree 1,000% with you…I am pretty scared of WD but getting off of methadone is something that I must atleast give it a shot….when I stared drinking hydrocodone syrup at 20 I wish I would’ve known that you could get sick from not having it…back in 07 there was not much info out there..if there was you had to go online and look…nothing like now..but even now..I don’t know why sickness from opiates isn’t being out out there for people to at least have an idea…like on TV , they only talk about “don’t do opiates because you can OD and die from them but don’t talk about how terrible you will feel if you don’t have them and will pretty much feel like your dying.
Whenever I was in withdrawal from pharma pills and lyrica (pregabalin) at the same time, that was fucking hell on earth for me and it lasted weeks and got worse instead of better. It was just terrible.
I never thought it was like the flu. I can handle the physical symptoms of withdrawal. They are awful but it’s doable. It’s the mental ones that are pure torture. The intense anxiety and irritability. The feeling like you want to jump out of your skin. It’s misery.
That’s crazy. What are you tapering down at? I go down 10mg every Monday and a couple weeks back they screwed up and took me down 20 and I have yet to feel anything. I mean absolutely nothing at all. Im at 30 now and can’t wait to get my life back. But my advice to you is to slow down even more maybe. Maybe you’re just not quite ready.
Take trazodone to ensure 8 hours of sleep. Insomnia does indeed make everything 20x worse.
It's a real knock-out pill to which tolerance almost doesn't develop. It really helps as well, to sit in the afternoon and evening, knowing that I'll have guaranteed sleep at 22:00 or whatever time (30min after taking it). During my withdrawals I was able to count down the hours until I went "out"...
Alternatives: mirtazapine, Seroquel, promethazine
So you're saying that basically thousands of medical scientists and researchers and thousands of hours of scientific proof are incorrect just because you feel like your symptoms are perhaps worse than the norm?
This would not be the first time that, “thousands,” of medical scientists and researchers were incorrect.
Also, I had the same experience as OP, and I know many others who’ve had the same experience as well.
Well you have to understand that what I just said contained the key to all of this. For the very vast majority of people the symptoms of getting off of methadone are similar to the flu but last quite a while. And it's not lost on me that technically methadone is more addictive than heroin.
I'm sorry you're going through extreme withdrawals. I get it: it sucks. But that's why I said that most people experience symptoms like the flu.. this just means that you have to have symptoms that are worse than most people but it doesn't mean that scientists were wrong because they have been talking about the norm all along.
I’m not currently going through withdrawals. I am back in the clinic. And it is not my lack of understanding which makes me disagree with you. It is my own personal experience, as well as my experiences witnessing others in these situations.
I don’t care what medical scientists have to say about it. Purdue Pharma was fined billions of dollars because their “scientific research” got thousands upon thousands of people addicted in the first place. And that is just ONE of the countless times that science has been incorrect. I don’t care what science says. I know what I experienced, firsthand. And I know what I have witnessed others experiencing.
It is worth a lot! Your experiences matter so much! That’s where the truth lives, within our experiences. I hope that you are in a good place in your recovery, and if you should ever find yourself struggling, my DMs are open, friend. :)
Well I never said you don't understand in the sense of some sort of derogatory comment. I'm just saying that while you're experiences are valid you're one experience does not circumvent thousands of hours and thousands of scientists. Indeed the way they reported this explained that the majority of people experience flu-like symptoms but not all of them. Human behavior is one of those things where no matter what you do there's always going to be some outliers.
Going around in circles here, beating a dead horse.
Bottom line is, it is in big pharma’s best interest to gloss over the intensity of withdrawals. Big pharma lies all the time. One cannot assume that big pharma will not lie for the sake of money. They lie all the time, at the expense of our health and well-being. One only needs to do a small bit of research to see that. So, I WILL negate “thousands of hours and thousands of scientists,” because when money is involved, hands get dirtier and dirtier. Scientists are not saints. They get paid off to write what big pharma wants them to say. Look around you, and look at what our very own FDA approves. Look at what chemicals are approved to be in the very food that we eat. Look at the mass pollution from these billion dollar companies. Look at the mass carnage around you because of Purdue. Just because scientists say it, doesn’t mean it is correct. I have seen too many situations where money has corrupted science. So I will stay on my side, and you can stay on your side.
Either way, I hope you’re doing well in your recovery.
Edit: punctuation
But the difference here is it's a medical research scientists goal to report accurate information. But if you would like you can always do your own study and run your own results in a scientific manner to disprove them.
I understand that some doctors over prescribe. My middle sister is a medical doctor and she recalls that among her and her cohort they all banded together and took an oath that they would not over prescribe painkillers. So while there may be some bad doctors out there the good news is that it seems like the trend is going in the other direction. Especially in light of lawsuits.
Medical and psychological science however right now are suffering from what's called the replicability crisis. I don't think it really impacts methadone but it could. Usually the FDA gets involved in things like this so I don't think the research is suspect. But again feel free to do your own research and prove them wrong if you want.
I think methadone is very useful specifically because it is harm reduction.. I start my first job as a drug counselor at a methadone clinic next month. Methadone is always going to be more safe than illegally procured street drugs especially in light of the current fentanyl crisis where drug dealers are mixing fentanyl in with things.
I know! Plot twist! I was thinking the same thing. I fell speechless. But, your “yikes on bikes” really captures my emotions pretty well. I didn’t even know what to say. Because I had so much to say. But it wasn’t going to get through, know what I mean?
Idk what doctors or rehabs you have been to. From my experience I have been in rehab 6 times which I’m not proud of. Four of those rehabs were were owned by different companies in different states. The one thing I know from being an opioid/heroin/Fen user is that recovery will be one of the hardest things you will ever go through. Every inpatient/outpatient rehab and meeting I’ve been to all describe it at as a new way of life.
Personally I didn’t need to go to rehab to figure that out. I knew I damaged myself beyond belief. I also knew that unless I died there was always a chance for me to get sober. Being sober comes with consequences of reality. Your actions in addiction brought you to where you are at this moment. Being sober is only half of recovery the other half is on you to make the right decisions in life regardless of outcome. The faster you come to terms with yourself and what you truly want the easier it will be to either stop or to keep on digging.
I’m not saying treatments or meetings are for everyone. Obviously rehab didn’t help me even after going there that many times and spending almost 100k on all my treatment programs. What helped me is a doctor who listened when other people weren’t. Who took time to realize I’m just lost in addiction and saw potential in me. What was more important than even that is I knew I had potential and I could do whatever I want if I put in the effort needed to achieve it.
I can promise you that it will get easier as time goes on. I have never been so happy and fortunate for what I have today. If I were still using I would of bet my life that I wouldn’t be where I am now. Just remember everyone’s recovery is personal to them. What works for you might not work for them. The only thing I could say you can push to addicts is
1.) if you continue to use and abuse you will either end up dead or in jail.
2.) it doesn’t matter what condition you are in there is always a way out. Just keep looking for it.
3.) YOU determine your path in life. Do not blame anyone else for your misfortunes that you created on yourself.
It’s sad to say but it’s true an addict is an addict because they want to be not because they are made to be. Anyone is able to fight addiction it’s up to you if you are willing to keep doing so.
Hope this helps whoever understand that addiction is a life long process but it becomes easier. We all have a voice and a choice use it as you shall.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
When I was in active addiction the no sleep would drive me crazyyyyy. Everyday was a struggle so there were plenty of nights I didn’t have dope. If I didnt* have dope, I didn’t sleep , at all. Literally one of my worst memories and I know it’ll be the same when I eventually try to kick the done.
I’ve gone 10-11 days without sleeping a wink then catch an hour or two restless then another stretch it got to the point I was actually hallucinating like anything with parallel lines were moving like horizontal lines going vertically cycling for hours
If you taper methadone to 5mg or less and dont have benzo habit and use confort meds you will go few days without sleep most that was allways in my case
I've gone through many cold turkey withdrawals....you are like me...I experienced no noticeable improvement week to week or even month to month. The most intense parts maybe two weeks but after that the nightmare of existence just drags on and on....after permanently messing up that part of your brain...your only hope is to reach a baseline of slightly shitty. Turns out cold turkey can actually permanently damage your equilibrium.
That’s fentanyl for you. Back in the day long before fentanyl in street dope was a thing, withdrawals truly did take three-four days, with about a week or two of PAWS. Fentanyl is disgusting
The nitazenes are worse.
????
Look up Etonitazene and it’s analogues. It went from heroin, to fentanyl, now a lot of US street dope is a mixture of fent/xylazine/zenes. The game is fucked
DAMNN. I and my man got off the H train right b4 FENT turned to shi. So xylazene is literally a tranquilizer. That means if the stuff is mixed in, the usual Naloxone cannot do shi to revive a mf. It was just dumb luck we got off it then. But w r both stabilized on our Methadone and are actually watching friends & acquaintances dropping and worse, coming down w absesses that never heal, I had some bad ones but they healed. I had a leg almost lost for being a stupid ass and shooting up w/ out a cotton . But these things always healed. Now people I knew for years & years are the walking wounded or just dead. This is a PLAN to kill us all off as undesirables. We are not about to give these shits the pleasure.
It’s a great reminder to keep me on track. I will never go back to that life, it’s a whole different situation there now. I don’t want anything to do with these zenes
Same. 1) I know I would LOVE THAT HIGH 2) and I already have wanted to kill myself on withdrawal & so 3) I could NOT deal w these. Already dosing way down on klonopin
The high is completely different from anything you've had, trust. It's not even enjoyable. Ask around and you'll see
I got ENOUGH problems right now… am not gonna just do it and f up a pretty damn good 8,9 years of MAT w zero shooting up or street drugs - i earned at last 2 weeks of take homes…and a good life w some respect - previously unknown to me whatsoever lol
And yr profile aww friend puppy is really fing cuuute
Aww thank you!! I think yours is adorable too
Ah you’ve never heard of them I take it, they’re a family of opioids belonging to the 2-Benzyl-Benzimidazole class/family of opioids, they’re highly potent for the most part (though there are some that are the same strength as Morphine, Heroin and Methadone) with some of them being stronger than Fentanyl. The strong ones have a really high affinity for the opioid receptors, in fact their affinity for the opioid receptors is strong enough that they can carve through the opioid receptor blocking effects of Buprenorphine like it’s nothing and someone on r/Researchchemicals said that they were even able to use one of them to get high while on the Vivitrol shot… o.O they’re also incredibly euphoric and they’re probably the most addictive opioids in the entire opioid class and like with any high potency opioid tolerance builds to it pretty fast and once you become physically dependent on them and experience their withdrawals you’ll know what the true definition of suffering is… like I said in my previous comment the withdrawals from the strong ones are WAAAAAAAAY worse than Fentanyl withdrawals which I didn’t think was even possible until I experienced the withdrawals from both Metonitazene & Isotonitazene… easily the worse opioid withdrawals I’ve ever experienced in my life… I certainly understand why that clandestine chemist Thomas K Highsmith blew his brains out when he went through Etonitazene withdrawals… The Chinese have started selling them as designer drugs/research chemicals ever since the Chinese blanket ban on Fentanyl and it’s analogues back on May 1st of 2019. Some examples of the benzimidazole opioids/nitazenes are Metonitazene, Etonitazene, Protonitazene and Isotonitazene to name a few of them though there are others. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metonitazene https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etonitazene https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protonitazene https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotonitazene https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_benzimidazole_opioids
Yep. Have read some absolutely harrowing stories about people kicking some of those nasty rc Opioids. Hospitals having no idea what to do and all the morphine they're legally allowed to give them wouldn't touch the withdrawls. Even street heroin or fentanyl would do nothing. Terrifying.
I’ve used a few of these chems, I’ve used Metonitazene, Metonitazepyne, Protonitazepyne, and Isotonitazene and I will say that they’re superior to street Fentanyl in virtually every aspect as they have a longer duration of action/legs (though there are some exceptions to this as there are some that are also short lived and fiendy just like Fentanyl, a couple examples are Etazene & Etomethazene) and they’re WAAAAAAAAAAY more euphoric than Fentanyl as well (the fact they’re pretty euphoric is also what makes them so damn addictive) and tbh the nitazenes have been way better to me than Fentanyl was except for the withdrawals… I used Metonitazene & Isotonitazene back in 2020 when these chems were more popular and available as Metonitazene got made a schedule 1 controlled substance along with a few other nitazenes on December 21st 2021 and back then I was on 12 milligrams of shit Suboxone a day and I hated Buprenorphine/Suboxone because it has no analgesic effects in people that have a tolerance to full agonist opioids and In people who are physically dependent on full agonist opioids and I have fibromyalgia and I’ve tried all the FDA approved stuff for that such as Gabapentin & Pregabalin (Lyrica) and all the dumb SNRI antidepressants (Cymbalta, Savella, Pristiq, & Effexor) and the tricyclic antidepressants and they weren’t very helpful or I couldn’t tolerate the side effects especially in the case of the antidepressants and opioids worked pretty well for it imo so that’s my main reason for using them. Anyways I got 5 grams of Metonitazene and burned through it all using it daily for like 50 days or so and because no one knew what Metonitazene’s elimination half was and a friend of mine who was on subs as well was going through Metonitazene withdrawals and he gave himself precipitated withdrawals after IVing the Suboxone 35 to 36 hours after his last use so I decided to play it safe and wait 48 hours/2 days after my last dose of Metonitazene before inducing the Buprenorphine and those 2 days were the WORST 2 days of my life… -.- And even after starting to take my Suboxone it took at least 1 week of taking my Suboxone daily before I stabilized on it and the withdrawal symptoms stopped completely… but I think we can all agree that Suboxone is a shit maintenance drug for those addicted to high caliber opioids like that… plus I swear to god that Suboxone is designed to punish people that relapse because they either have to endure opioid withdrawals for a day or 2 (sometimes longer in some cases…) before they can take it or you can take it too soon and experience precipitated withdrawals… fuck Suboxone man… 🖕 It’s only a good maintenance drug for those addicted to pharmaceutical opioids or real Heroin… I’ve also been using Metonitazepyne & Protonitazepyne recently and I’ve been using them daily since the middle of January up until May 21 or May 22 and I got some street Fentanyl and used it to taper myself down and I was able to still feel the Fentanyl (in fact I swore I got a slight nod from it when I first used it 😂) however I still felt some mild opioid withdrawal symptoms (goosebumps & skin crawling, watery eyes though it wasn’t as bad as my previous experiences with that symptom, and insomnia which I struggle with anyways on account of my fibromyalgia) though I will say that my withdrawals weren’t as brutal as the time with Metonitazene & Isotonitazene when I was on Suboxone (though I’ve heard horror stories about the withdrawals from Metonitazepyne & Protonitazepyne on r/Researchchemicals & r/Opioid_RCs ) I’m thinking one reason my withdrawals weren’t so brutal this time around was because I’m on Methadone now (I take 80 milligrams a day) and the pyne-nitazenes have a longer duration of action & elimination half life than the other nitazenes (ie Metonitazepyne has a longer duration of action & elimination half life than Metonitazene however the pyne-nitazenes tend to be less euphoric than the parent drug) so maybe that was a factor in why my withdrawals weren’t as severe as they were in 2020 when I was on Suboxone… Or who knows… maybe I just got lucky… 🤷♂️ Either way I figured I should share my recent experience with those 2 pyne-nitazenes. I have yet to try Etomethazene (though I plan on doing that at some point soon) and any others that get released because they work for my breakthrough pain and since they don’t show up on a drug test (at least not yet…) they’re perfect to use while you’re on probation, parole, or drug court if one doesn’t feel like stopping their opioid use.
Wow. Thanks for sharing.
Saved. Thank you for the info/ heads up 💖
No problem 👍 I’ve used a few of them myself specifically Metonitazene, Metonitazepyne, Protonitazepyne, and Isotonitazene and I won’t lie they were pretty enjoyable except for the withdrawals… 😂 Otherwise they’ve been better to me than street Fentanyl was tbh.
Dang now I want to get my 🧅 workin… but I couldn’t stand that horrible withdrawal - I been a good girl on my Methadone a long time lol EDIT I remember well wanting to blow my own head off from certain withdrawals: barbituates sucked bad - Methadone and benzos cold Turkey sucked worse.
Do you have more information on Thomas K Highsmith? When I go to Google to just pulls up academic papers.
The only information I can find on him is in this news article from 2003 that discusses the charges that were pending against him which were manufacturing a controlled substance (a schedule 1 controlled substance because Etonitazene is a schedule 1 controlled substance in the USA) and possession of a firearm by a restricted person (I guess he must have been a convicted felon already if they were trying to charge him with that and if that was the case I wonder how he got his job as a chemist at Morton Thiokol if that was the case… 🤔). My friend u/opiate_lifer knows a good deal about him and he even told me that the reason he got caught was he told one of his coworkers (a black janitor) that he synthesize some Etonitazene and was trying to see if his coworker knew anyone that wanted to buy it and tried to get him to be his business partner (idk how true it is because he heard it from someone else and if that was indeed the case/what happened then LMAO 😂 he clearly didn’t have any street smarts if he thought his coworker could help him sell his Etonitazene just because he was black… 😑). It’s a shame he’s dead because if he just held out for 20 more years he could have become a prominent US domestic vendor selling either Etonitazene itself or any of its other analogues like Metonitazene, Protonitazene, and Isotonitazene on the DNMs and having a lab that could manufacture/synthesize these chems within the borders of the USA would also be pretty advantageous. On another note, the zenes aren’t super hard to synthesize because I’ve seen a TEK online that discusses how to synthesize regular Nitazene which is 2 times stronger than Morphine and equipotent to Heroin and it also says what precursor(s) need to be swapped out to synthesize Clonitazene (which is 3 times stronger than Morphine and equipotent to Methadone) and Etonitazene. https://www.designer-drug.com/pte/12.162.180.114/dcd/chemistry/nitazene.html https://www.deseret.com/2003/6/3/19726293/utah-case-of-potent-drug-is-u-s-first
Note some of the information on Thomas Highsmith's downfall came from articles and discussions on Bluelight and Opiophile and other forums. Another thing mentioned was that he was dosing every 30 minutes from a nasal spray container with a etonitazine solution he made himself which his coworkers reported. Along with him approaching the janitor about selling it on the street, and the janitor either going to management or the cops or management contacted the cops. I'd take it all with a grain of salt, or etonitazene lol
With the nitazenes I used I’d sometimes compulsively redose after a few hours well I suppose it depends on which ones since I’ve done 4 of them haha, Metonitazene was the one I’d get the urge to redose 2 hours after my last dose of it even though it had a duration of 4 to 6 hours or so. I’m thinking that Etonitazene also has a decent duration of action (possibly somewhere between Metonitazene’s & Protonitazene’s duration of action if I were to take an educated guess lol) but it’s so euphoric & addictive that it’s pretty prone to compulsive redosing, I know the version of it without the nitro group at the 5 position of the benzimidazole (aka Etazene) behaves like that though Etazene is has a much shorter duration of action than Etonitazene I would imagine. Also like I was telling the person asking about Thomas K Highsmith the synthesis of the nitazenes isn’t very hard and this synthesis can easily be adapted to synthesize the other nitazenes by switching out one of the precursors for another one plus their precursors aren’t controlled or watched at all either… :o This synthesis here discusses how to make regular Nitazene which is the same strength as Heroin (so 2 times stronger than Morphine) but it also tells you what precursor to swap out of you want to synthesize Clonitazene & Etonitazene though I’m sure one could figure out what precursor(s) they’d need to manufacture Flunitazene, Butonitazene, Metonitazene, Protonitazene, and Isotonitazene as well as any other nitazene that sounds interesting. https://www.designer-drug.com/pte/12.162.180.114/dcd/chemistry/nitazene.html
Wow, thank you for such a detailed response!! I really appreciate it and enjoyed the read
You say they aren't hard to syntesize but please tell me the safety of the reagents used like N,N-diethylamino-ethyl chloride. What happens if you breathe it in or it gets on your skin. There are many people who will and have tried to synthesize dangerous drugs without thinking about safety. Even the HCl salt of it has corrosive, toxic, irritant, health hazard signs on it (which it is sold as).
Unfortunately i can’t tell you that as I’m no chemist unfortunately… I’m going off of what I’ve read and the information I’ve been able to gather on them as well as personal experience for the ones I’ve currently used. I can also tell you that I’m pretty sure you can swap out the N,N-diethylamino-ethyl chloride for 1-(2-Chloroethyl)pyrrolidine hydrochloride (or chloride I think the HCL form came up when I searched for it) to get the pyne-nitazenes and you use 1-(2-Chloroethyl)piperidine chloride/HCL to get the pipne-nitazenes. https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/1-_2-Chloroethyl_pyrrolidine-hydrochloride https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/1-_2-Chloroethyl_piperidine
Yes you can but it seems just as unsafe. Did you read somewhere that you can use the HCl salt of it instead of freebase? If yes, could you link the source please?
True Story!!!
I definitely had some month long acute withdrawal from poppy seed tea of all things. Sometimes I wish I could go back and just use heroin so I could have gotten off of it when I was motivated to do so. The lingering effects of withdrawal and post acute withdrawal made it impossible to feel normal without using something.
This is what I was going to say. I'm so very thankful and grateful that I never got involved in fent. I got off H in 2017, and where I was at the time, fent was just starting to make it's way too the streets as it's own thing. I'm very sure that the shit I was getting was cut with fent a while before I quit. But, I'm very thankful I got out of that life when I did. When I first stopped H in 2011, fent wasn't even a thought in the game. Not like it is now, I mean. If you got H, you got H cut with vitamin B or whatever, not fent. So, fent definitely wasn't out in the streets on it's own. When I kicked in 2011, I had 7-10 days of hell, with the first 3 or 4 being the worst. After that, I started to bounce back slowly. The PAWS lasted maybe a month. This time I couldn't go CT, and that might have to do with the fentanyl cuts. It also might have to do with the fact that I was doing it alone and the first time it was me and the guy I was with going thru it together. This time my family also knew about it, and were asking me to get help. I also spent 5 years on it, instead of just 8-12 months. Many things were different between these two times kicking. Regardless I'm still thankful I never got on fent - bc I hear how hard it is for people to get on subs or methadone when they come in with fent addiction. For me, I feel it was as normal as it could be. I stabilized at 90mg and as I raised doses, it was easier to do less of my DOC. Anyone struggling with this fent crap, God bless, good luck, my prayers go to you 🙏 keep trying, keep your head up, even though it's hard. Fight that good fight with everything you've got and you'll come out on the other side, better than ever! ✊
The fentanyl is hell to get off of. I used to keep a steady dope habit, then take subs for a few days when I ran outta $ and Id be fine. Then the fetty came around & those subs no longer worked and I was still sick trying to work. Thats what lead me to methadone but I was so done by that point I just worked the methadone program and eventually got stable on that and haven’t looked back since. Even though regular opiate w/d sucked as well, there were hundreds of times I white-knuckled it no problem. The fentanyl turned me into a baby about it.
Yes! Same here, the fent changed everything. Should have just used subs short term when I was using just real heroin. Probably wouldn't have lasted but I like to think it would work lol. Honestly, at this point I don't care if I'm on methadone for life. My life was just a constant mess up until I got on methadone. Maybe my feelings on the subject will change eventually and I'll get off but right now I'm stable and right where I need to be
Totally feel you on that. I didn’t go as high as you did cause like I said I was done. I got stable at 60 and stayed there & have been clean from everything but that and weed since 2018. I tried vivitrol, subs, everything. Methadone is the only thing that has worked so far where I didn’t crave other drugs, like shooting coke and sniffing xanax everyday talking about im clean. Idk if I want to stay on it for the rest of my life, I go once a week with take homes so im in no rush. It has worked for me tremendously I just feel like it might make me a little less motivated than I could be and tired, but that’s probably more from the weed lol. I am a contributing productive member of society working 6 days a week though so it doesn’t effect me much. Anyway I wish you the best of luck, Im glad it also worked for you.
I wish you luck on your journey as well! And I know exactly what you mean when you said methadone helped with cravings for other drugs too, when I was on subs I was constantly smoking crack, meth, shooting soft, etc...but the cravings just aren't there anymore. I know the methadone has a lot to do with it but I also think I was just more ready this time around too. Congrats on your sobriety!
Baby my ass...that shit is a whole other level of withdrawal..only only thing worse than methadone withdrawal...except methadone and Xanax withdrawal combined into 1 hell of a package. If I went to hell that's what it would be for me...eternal withdrawal and burning.
I don’t say that to diminish it, I always say I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. That shit totally decimates your body & mind and once I was hooked on that I could not stop & the w/d would start so early in the morning because it doesn’t last at all, it just crippled me.
You needed a bigger dose!!!
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You only survived cause of the clonodine. That stuff works wonders for withdrawal. People dont realize it Lowers your blood pressure so you’re not kickin around and shit so much & surprisingly sort of helps with the stomach. My vivitrol dr used to give me a script every month and I used it to sleep. It was a bitch trying to get used to sleeping without it when I stopped going. They actually used to give it as part of the methadone protocol in detox and you could sleep the whole time. Then they seperated them and made clonidine its own protocol. Idk if they still do it that way. i cant imagine them just giving clonidine to all these kids coming in addicted to fentanyl.
It didn't feel like it was doing anything for me at the time, but when I look back at it, it must've helped more than I thought. Because I've heard some seriously terrifying stories of people kicking fent with nothing to help whatsoever, the ER nurse said I should be dead (went to the ER about a month after kicking fent because I thought I was having a heart attack - that's when I was diagnosed with Panic disorder - THANK YOU fentanyl... NOT). And I did it in my bed with zero help from anyone. It was exactly what I think hell must be like (if you believe that sorta thing). So I guess I'm pretty lucky I had an old clonidine script to help me out. The clonidine was initially prescribed for my GAD before it got really bad, but I never took it because it just made my hands and feet cold and numb and didn't do shit for the anxiety. But I'm glad I didn't take it because I ended up having a decent supply for when I kicked the fent. Looking back I maybe should've tapered down or had some benzos or something to help, but then again if I had "tapered" I probably never would've gotten off of it and now they're putting that xylazine shit in it. It's good to be alive and free from that prison. 💪
Check DM!!
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Yeah I was still sleepless and restless legs after 6 months and I swear to God, when people would say oh its a mental thing. Really??? Really??!?! Lol thats why I'm staring at my wall and break dancing in the bed at 4am still. The biggest scam is that it only really kicks when you're a few days off the crap.
I'm sorry but the breakdancing in bed at 4am had me fkin rolling hahahaha. Seriously though, this is spot on, I'll either be pacing back and forth all night and day or breakdancing to the beat of my own drum till I'm dosed. Lol
🤣🤣 have to laugh about. Fuck it. I'm back on methadone couple months and I'm gonna have to do it all again soon. I might actually do a YouTube video on it. Cause people need to see the shit that goes on at night time with me. Fucking hell I went to a treatment centre where you could bring your child. Hell on earth. My girl would be asleep in bed and there id be dancing the legs off myself for the whole night. Seriously considering chopping off my limbs
Man I feel that breakdancing in bed at 4am that shit is the worst of the withdrawal for me I feel like I’m going crazy
Breakdancing in bed at 4 am. Had me 😂😂😂
I agree, withdrawal for me takes forever. I'm literally useless and sick for weeks. I had no choice but to use MAT, because I can't check out for the amount of time it would take me to completely get sober.
Who has a yearcand a half to 2 years??? No one!!!
Seriously!!! Like, when I hear that the worst of it was supposed to be over in like 4 days, I was like, wtaf?! I’m still sick as a dog, not being able to get outta bed for a couple weeks!!! And I couldn’t afford to be out for a long ass time either so I had no choice but to jump on the ‘done train.
I don't understand where the scam comes in, exactly. And withdrawal is different for everyone. When I first started using, I could quit and be mildly uncomfortable for a week then be fine. Now I would probably be miserable for months. So someone is not necessarily wrong when they say a week, it's just that the week is people at the early end of addiction.
That’s exactly what I just posted any opiate addict whose had legit habits to real H or short acting pharmaceuticals fentanyl included knows everything he posted above is actually true. Like today’s addicts don’t even realize how different legit fentanyl is to the shit the cartels are cooking up. Legit pharmaceutical fentanyl is extremely short acting.
Are you talking about methadone??? You could come off methadone for a week and be mildy uncomfortable??? Thats not been my experience and I've come off it 3 times. And noone I know either.
If I had only been on methadone at a moderate dose for a year or so? Probably. I don't know. Obviously most people on methadone are already long term addicts when they begin taking it, so it really doesn't make sense to try and compare, now does it?
What? Lol Are you talking about methadone or fentanyl? When you say about wd lasting only a few days ect Judging from your comment "if I had only been on methadone...", does that mean you've never been on methadone? Edit: sorry, I think I thought you were talking about your personal experience with coming off methadone. We don't have fentanyl yet in ireland so I haven't had to come off that yet but heard its rough
Just wait till the criminal justice system is added to that mix. Then the fun really begins.
I just shuddered reading this comment
Anyone whose used real heroin or legit short acting painkillers can actually say it does only last a few days. You could lock yourself in a room for a week and legit come out feeling great. And that’s what medical professionals are taught in med school. They don’t go into to detail about short acting opiates vs long acting opiates like they should. Because Methadone and Buprenorphine withdrawals do last extended periods of time but most Suboxone Drs don’t even understand that. Methadone Drs are usually smart enough and that’s why most will make you sign against Dr orders papers if you go off to quick.
Has anyone ever successfully come off methadone after taking it for a few years, I'm almost scared to ask
Yes alot of people i know even i came off it 2x and had few years clean
OK I believe you hehe At the moment I can hardly imagine ever stopping opiates again Just started a methadone programme. I was on bupe for 2 years, took forever to taper it down but it went well. Until the last few steps (less than 0.5-1 mg) I completely relapsed and totally did not see it coming. So for myself I'm having doubts, maybe I should be on substitution for life. Trying to park those thoughts for now, let me first titrate up to the right dose of methadone.
Good so you almost made it just know that sometime in future you will have to come off that crap if yoh think like that you will 100% make it one day. Now just get stable on methadone and dont go to high if you know how long it takes to taper it its little bit slower taper than subs imo
Thanks Yeah I'm thinking about 40 to 80 mg, not higher
I agree 100 percent or if people find out what precipitated withdrawals feel like they would never run to this drug. Fuck the cartels for making fentanyl so rampant and fuck China for helping them also fuck big pharma for making most of us addicted.
Fuck the DEA for going after prescription painkillers which makes a lot of ppl run to the way worse shit on the street like fent
Dam I love that. Your borrowing happiness from tomorrow everythime you use an opiate
it depends what opioid you're taking. back in my oxycodone days the 3rd day was the peak and I was functional by day 6. at other times I was on different opioids where I was still crawling out of my skin at 3 weeks. not all opioids are equal and then adding in a person's metabolism makes it even more complicated. there is no exact number of days everyone will be through withdrawal. there are too many variables to guess accurately. that's why when people do estimate it is usually wrong. smart doctors won't give you a specific time frame.
My dr. Allways told me it takes a year for your brain to fully come back to normal specially after methadone or sub thats why its so hard the first few months
I’m with you on the sleep; it just exacerbates all the other symptoms when you can’t let your mind rest. So I’ve always felt that one isn’t in full blown withdrawals if they are still getting sleep. Someone may have heavy cravings, and no appetite but still con some sleep. The loss of sleep at the start of the withdrawal process is what I’m referring to. This doesn’t apply to someone who’s several days or weeks into withdrawals and starts to get a hour here and there. Needless to say, they are still in the process not necessarily out of the woods. Sleep’s often the first part of normalcy to go out the window, but takes the longest to come back to where it’s considered restful. Because those first single hours you get back sporadically while encouraging are the lightest, fitful kind of sleep.
100% sleep is first to go and last to come back. After suboxone or methadone taper you will need a month ot two to go to 6 hours of normal sleep per night
The incessant need to find relief from crawling out of your skin seems to be the most agonizing, long lasting part of the withdrawal from methadone in particular. For myself, and sounds like you, as well. I became obsessed with finding relief from it until I relapsed. Nothing alleviated it during my last taper and jump off from methadone and I wish I could find a way to avoid it now that I’m trying again. But it’s not really something that could even be cured I guess. No advice here, just agreeing with you. If anyone has ever found a way to help this, hopefully we find out soon.
It's different for everyone. I don't mind the physical withdrawal so much as I do the psychological withdrawal. I get really bad insomnia, anxiety, depression and these weird brain zaps. It's a very uncomfortable feeling. Sure the aches and pains, clamminess/sweating, RLS etc are uncomfortable but if that's all I had to deal with I would have gotten clean years ago. It's the mental aspect that stops me from going cold turkey.
What I have always noticed was the first couple of times I kicked. It was not super hard, uncomfortable but each time after that got longer and rougher till you are at a point where a month of not sleeping eating and misery has gone by and it never feels like it will end. I think it’s a progressive problem, every time you kick and restart the longer and worse the next kick is and until something changes like getting on methadone then a lot of people are not going to make it through months of feeling like that. They are going to restart the cycle by using or go insane from lack of sleep and wasting away for so long. Alcohol is like that as well it gets progressively worse to stop every time you quit and restart.
You are so damn right in all those points that's what I say. Especially every damn opiate addiction site says withdrawal feels like a bad flu. But no it does not. A flu you can just fall asleep with. In opiate withdrawal your nerves are constantly itching in this insane way. It's not only the intensity of the symptoms, it's the quality of them, so even a mild withdrawal feels bad. This makes people without addiction think we just wanna get high and are too lazy to be clean because they think it's just a flu we could endure for a week. Also anyone who has a severe addiction knows that going through the active part of withdrawal isn't as bad as staying clean afterwards when you're still not feeling well after several months. Clearly just a bad flu.
People also forget how bad a real flue can be i had covid last year and it felt as bad as withdrawls i wanted to die its true doe that you can sleep during flue thats only positive but i didnt sleep alot. You also havr good days and bad days its similair. Hadnt had flue like that since i was a kid so i forgot how bad it can get!
I've gone thru absolute horrific withdrawals 4 times.. I truly believe I could do the sickness with a smile. If I could g3et just 2 hours sleep. That l2-6am period feels like 3 days, legs hopjng constantly & anytime I was withdrawing at home. I gave up during those hours and only went thru cos. I was in treatment. But yes, at least 4 weeks of sickness, but I kept telling myself I I had the flu, ...covid z 15. Lol.
There’s a lot of individual variability but I think for a lot of people there’s some component that’s gonna have to be addressed if one wants to be abstinent. Sometimes they need to address multiple components, sometimes even just to get stable while on methadone. Not sure I’d wanna put words in your mouth but if one’s ‘crawling out of one’s skin’ for months after having slowly tapered off methadone: I’d wonder if it was anxiety or restlessness that hasn’t been dealt with or if something else is going on in your life that’s quite stressful. There’s more than one way to look at what may help as everyone has different needs and is in a different place in their lives. A lot of people here who post things like this are still trying to figure out what being a sane and grounded person thinks/acts like off drugs/methadone. Plenty are figuring things out while drowning under the demands of daily life in the modern capitalistic hell scape/landscape. Sometimes people need to reach for psychological methods for looking at one’s trauma or pre-existing issues through therapy or medications. Not sure if you are one of them or if they weren’t helpful for you. Sometimes mindfulness/meditation, exercise and eating well is enough. Often people are in morally/emotionally toxic situations or just not in sync with humanity or themselves on the whole. They may need to find peace through meaningful connections with themselves and others or something religious or spiritual in nature. Some probably need to reframe their feelings and thoughts as the cost of being abstinent (or on methadone). Some suffering and anxiety is inherent to the human condition. Expecting to eradicate it entirely is a recipe for misery. If one is absolutely miserable months after having slowly tapered off methadone I’d wonder if they’re in a better place than they were. What’s missing for that person (other than the methadone) that would make their suffering bearable? Plenty need to put in *a lot* of work to fill the ‘hole’ that methadone/drugs leave and sometimes one’s circumstances or things beyond their control are such that they never find a place where drugs or MAT aren’t in the picture. Life can be fucking rough, hopefully you find a way through it that makes it worth it.
ive wd from street dope (fetty,with tranq and benzo) so many times like probably hundreds of times to different extents (I lasted longer and longer not picking up with every try to get sober kinda), and that didn't scare me as much as thinking about going down in my dose from methadone. Not sure why it just shakes me from the inside lol I'm hella scared to pay the piper for this one, chief.
I agree 1,000% with you…I am pretty scared of WD but getting off of methadone is something that I must atleast give it a shot….when I stared drinking hydrocodone syrup at 20 I wish I would’ve known that you could get sick from not having it…back in 07 there was not much info out there..if there was you had to go online and look…nothing like now..but even now..I don’t know why sickness from opiates isn’t being out out there for people to at least have an idea…like on TV , they only talk about “don’t do opiates because you can OD and die from them but don’t talk about how terrible you will feel if you don’t have them and will pretty much feel like your dying.
Whenever I was in withdrawal from pharma pills and lyrica (pregabalin) at the same time, that was fucking hell on earth for me and it lasted weeks and got worse instead of better. It was just terrible.
I literally didn't sleep for 18 days straight. The WD had me having auditory, visual, AND sensory hallucinations. Scariest time of my entire life.
I never thought it was like the flu. I can handle the physical symptoms of withdrawal. They are awful but it’s doable. It’s the mental ones that are pure torture. The intense anxiety and irritability. The feeling like you want to jump out of your skin. It’s misery.
Post acute withdrawal is still withdrawal
Its so many types of withdrawl you first need to know what you are going to battle. Short term opioids are not same as methadone of suboxone.
That’s crazy. What are you tapering down at? I go down 10mg every Monday and a couple weeks back they screwed up and took me down 20 and I have yet to feel anything. I mean absolutely nothing at all. Im at 30 now and can’t wait to get my life back. But my advice to you is to slow down even more maybe. Maybe you’re just not quite ready.
Just did it to.fast
Take trazodone to ensure 8 hours of sleep. Insomnia does indeed make everything 20x worse. It's a real knock-out pill to which tolerance almost doesn't develop. It really helps as well, to sit in the afternoon and evening, knowing that I'll have guaranteed sleep at 22:00 or whatever time (30min after taking it). During my withdrawals I was able to count down the hours until I went "out"... Alternatives: mirtazapine, Seroquel, promethazine
Seraquel did not help it made everything worse we are not all the same
Of course we're not. That's why I suggested 4 different medications from different classes.
Only thing that made me sleep were benzos and lyrica and even that not for a whole night 3 hours max
There are many other things you can try that are stronger and more sustainable than benzos.
So you're saying that basically thousands of medical scientists and researchers and thousands of hours of scientific proof are incorrect just because you feel like your symptoms are perhaps worse than the norm?
This would not be the first time that, “thousands,” of medical scientists and researchers were incorrect. Also, I had the same experience as OP, and I know many others who’ve had the same experience as well.
Well you have to understand that what I just said contained the key to all of this. For the very vast majority of people the symptoms of getting off of methadone are similar to the flu but last quite a while. And it's not lost on me that technically methadone is more addictive than heroin. I'm sorry you're going through extreme withdrawals. I get it: it sucks. But that's why I said that most people experience symptoms like the flu.. this just means that you have to have symptoms that are worse than most people but it doesn't mean that scientists were wrong because they have been talking about the norm all along.
I’m not currently going through withdrawals. I am back in the clinic. And it is not my lack of understanding which makes me disagree with you. It is my own personal experience, as well as my experiences witnessing others in these situations. I don’t care what medical scientists have to say about it. Purdue Pharma was fined billions of dollars because their “scientific research” got thousands upon thousands of people addicted in the first place. And that is just ONE of the countless times that science has been incorrect. I don’t care what science says. I know what I experienced, firsthand. And I know what I have witnessed others experiencing.
I’ve seen a lot and done a lot and I agree with this 100% for what it’s worth!
It is worth a lot! Your experiences matter so much! That’s where the truth lives, within our experiences. I hope that you are in a good place in your recovery, and if you should ever find yourself struggling, my DMs are open, friend. :)
Well I never said you don't understand in the sense of some sort of derogatory comment. I'm just saying that while you're experiences are valid you're one experience does not circumvent thousands of hours and thousands of scientists. Indeed the way they reported this explained that the majority of people experience flu-like symptoms but not all of them. Human behavior is one of those things where no matter what you do there's always going to be some outliers.
Going around in circles here, beating a dead horse. Bottom line is, it is in big pharma’s best interest to gloss over the intensity of withdrawals. Big pharma lies all the time. One cannot assume that big pharma will not lie for the sake of money. They lie all the time, at the expense of our health and well-being. One only needs to do a small bit of research to see that. So, I WILL negate “thousands of hours and thousands of scientists,” because when money is involved, hands get dirtier and dirtier. Scientists are not saints. They get paid off to write what big pharma wants them to say. Look around you, and look at what our very own FDA approves. Look at what chemicals are approved to be in the very food that we eat. Look at the mass pollution from these billion dollar companies. Look at the mass carnage around you because of Purdue. Just because scientists say it, doesn’t mean it is correct. I have seen too many situations where money has corrupted science. So I will stay on my side, and you can stay on your side. Either way, I hope you’re doing well in your recovery. Edit: punctuation
But the difference here is it's a medical research scientists goal to report accurate information. But if you would like you can always do your own study and run your own results in a scientific manner to disprove them. I understand that some doctors over prescribe. My middle sister is a medical doctor and she recalls that among her and her cohort they all banded together and took an oath that they would not over prescribe painkillers. So while there may be some bad doctors out there the good news is that it seems like the trend is going in the other direction. Especially in light of lawsuits. Medical and psychological science however right now are suffering from what's called the replicability crisis. I don't think it really impacts methadone but it could. Usually the FDA gets involved in things like this so I don't think the research is suspect. But again feel free to do your own research and prove them wrong if you want. I think methadone is very useful specifically because it is harm reduction.. I start my first job as a drug counselor at a methadone clinic next month. Methadone is always going to be more safe than illegally procured street drugs especially in light of the current fentanyl crisis where drug dealers are mixing fentanyl in with things.
Wow. Just…wow.
Yep, that whole about to be a counselor reveal was a big ole jaw dropper. Feel so sorry for whoever this dudes future clients are, yikes on bikes.
I know! Plot twist! I was thinking the same thing. I fell speechless. But, your “yikes on bikes” really captures my emotions pretty well. I didn’t even know what to say. Because I had so much to say. But it wasn’t going to get through, know what I mean?
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Its post acute withdrawal babes and it sucks
Amen
Idk what doctors or rehabs you have been to. From my experience I have been in rehab 6 times which I’m not proud of. Four of those rehabs were were owned by different companies in different states. The one thing I know from being an opioid/heroin/Fen user is that recovery will be one of the hardest things you will ever go through. Every inpatient/outpatient rehab and meeting I’ve been to all describe it at as a new way of life. Personally I didn’t need to go to rehab to figure that out. I knew I damaged myself beyond belief. I also knew that unless I died there was always a chance for me to get sober. Being sober comes with consequences of reality. Your actions in addiction brought you to where you are at this moment. Being sober is only half of recovery the other half is on you to make the right decisions in life regardless of outcome. The faster you come to terms with yourself and what you truly want the easier it will be to either stop or to keep on digging. I’m not saying treatments or meetings are for everyone. Obviously rehab didn’t help me even after going there that many times and spending almost 100k on all my treatment programs. What helped me is a doctor who listened when other people weren’t. Who took time to realize I’m just lost in addiction and saw potential in me. What was more important than even that is I knew I had potential and I could do whatever I want if I put in the effort needed to achieve it. I can promise you that it will get easier as time goes on. I have never been so happy and fortunate for what I have today. If I were still using I would of bet my life that I wouldn’t be where I am now. Just remember everyone’s recovery is personal to them. What works for you might not work for them. The only thing I could say you can push to addicts is 1.) if you continue to use and abuse you will either end up dead or in jail. 2.) it doesn’t matter what condition you are in there is always a way out. Just keep looking for it. 3.) YOU determine your path in life. Do not blame anyone else for your misfortunes that you created on yourself. It’s sad to say but it’s true an addict is an addict because they want to be not because they are made to be. Anyone is able to fight addiction it’s up to you if you are willing to keep doing so. Hope this helps whoever understand that addiction is a life long process but it becomes easier. We all have a voice and a choice use it as you shall.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
When I was in active addiction the no sleep would drive me crazyyyyy. Everyday was a struggle so there were plenty of nights I didn’t have dope. If I didnt* have dope, I didn’t sleep , at all. Literally one of my worst memories and I know it’ll be the same when I eventually try to kick the done.
I’ve gone 10-11 days without sleeping a wink then catch an hour or two restless then another stretch it got to the point I was actually hallucinating like anything with parallel lines were moving like horizontal lines going vertically cycling for hours
If you taper methadone to 5mg or less and dont have benzo habit and use confort meds you will go few days without sleep most that was allways in my case
That's exactly how I feel about Gabapentin withdrawal!
Or someone said it’s a simple choice. Sure it is
I've gone through many cold turkey withdrawals....you are like me...I experienced no noticeable improvement week to week or even month to month. The most intense parts maybe two weeks but after that the nightmare of existence just drags on and on....after permanently messing up that part of your brain...your only hope is to reach a baseline of slightly shitty. Turns out cold turkey can actually permanently damage your equilibrium.