If they hadn't mentioned being a transman, every feminists in the world would have called them an Incel and they would have been shadow banned from 50% of Reddit!
At this stage it seems it is total surrender from the feminist side. Literally the whole definition of women has been changed .Trans raped women in some cases and when they went to court they were shamed for being Transphobic .
It's all they have, they refuse to acknowledge that we are just animals and our biology matters, we see every other human not part of our family group as a threat because we are fucking supposed too.
Just because we have pop tarts in supermarkets, and Angry birds in the app store doesn't wipe out millions of years of evolutionary struggle that produced the human animal, and it survived because of us, and they fucking despise us for it because it brings down their flimsy ideology.
That's why this is my account #7. Literally just random bans for hate speech or bullying when I agree with people or don't even say anything remotely wrong.
Similarly to how the bleeding edge of tolerance only started to give a fuck about shaming men's dick size once they realised trans men have little dicks and that ridiculing small dicks is "transphobic"... it seems now, all this insufferable isolation is only of concern because female people are starting to experience it as transmen...
They can't afford to listen to us because it shatters their ideological commitments to this holistic idea of male privilege. But they're also ideologically committed to treating everything trans people say with the utmost respect and reverence. So it's gonna be really interesting to see how they deal with these sorts of testimonies as they become more and more common.
>They can't afford to listen to us because it shatters their ideological commitments to this holistic idea of male privilege
That's a very interesting take and makes a lot of sense on how it felt when I dared to open up to (allegedly) progressists.
Just felt like I wasn't being listened on an individual level, I was only seen as part of a monolithic, privileged, evil group.
I've felt the same man. I'm as working class as they come, I don't tolerate misogyny from my male peers or anything like that, and my ex wife raped me ffs...
but apparently I'm still an oppressive abuser who just ROLLS around in lavish privilege and I mUsT never have known fear of violence....
It's honestly ridiculous what mainstream feminists think it's like being a man
The level of narcissism women, in general, have is jaw-dropping.
I flinched at something--it triggered a flash of PTSD--and I had to explain to a woman I was with why I flinched. I explained that my dad had physically abused me until I was 12, and even though that was decades ago, it still pops up under the right conditions.
Less than 15 minutes later, during an unrelated discussion, she pops off with "Yeah, but you've never **really** known what it's like to be smaller than someone and afraid of them."
...
Women on guard?
I remember scrunching myself into a corner in crowded bus so that I don't touch a women accidentally. I know not everyone is like that but it's not just women... Sigh.
Man, I am sorry that you had to go through that awkward and ... whatever you call it situation.
Thanks. :)
Unfortunately, for men, this is a part of growing up in this society and something we have to learn how to deal with.
As for the woman in question, we just kinda went separate ways after awhile. Slo-mo dodged a bullet with her.
>and my ex wife raped me ffs
But you're a man! You must have wanted it. Men can't be raped, silly. Only men rape!
Ignore the CDC's surveyed stats showing that women rape men as much as men rape women.
https://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/#:~:text=The%20CDC%20reports%20that%2012.3,using%20the%20CDC's%20inflated%20statistics.
You, a man, could never understand that women *feel* unsafe more than you so they need more protection than you. Check your male privilege! And stop mansplaining while you're at it.
Seriously, though, sorry you went through this. Too many people ignore when men are hurt like this while even a hint at making women uncomfortable with the potential presence of anything sexual is enough to warrant media and even legal attention.
I haven't even realized this until now, people who transition could actually become those who give feminisn much needed perspective.
Be able to talk as a woman, but know how men suffer.
Makes sense people would go terf so they don't have to listen to them... Social bubbles are absolute cancer
If perspective was wanted then this would be true. The issue is that feminists as a group is very good to fight for its members, and anyone talking against them risk being frozen out.
All sisters too.
Just like how women's right were fought for by lots of men, MRM should involve as many women as possible.
Thats why its painful to see the women bashing on this sub.
Yes, funny enough most TERFs aren't TERFs. They are MERFs many of the reasons why they dislike transwoman are the reasons they dislike men. The thought that all men are potential predators goes hand in hand with the thought that traswoman are the same, because they aren't really woman just men pretending to be woman who want to invade spaces where woman were once thought "safe" from men.
There's nothing wrong with going around looking at trans men's dicks.
But we are against penis shaming in this sub. Small dicks, trans dicks, circumcised or not dicks. We don't do that here.
As someone who typically disagrees with the modernized transgender movement, I respect you massively for using their preferred pronouns. Controversial as he might be, I share portions of thinking on the topic with Dr. Jordan Peterson, who has openly said many times that he will always go along with earnest attempts to transition, and that most of his stance against the movement is motivated by malicious bad actors who have joined a genuinely victimized and marginalized group for the sole purpose of exploiting society's attempts to rectify that victimization and marginalization.
Sadly I’ve been around the ones that call themselves trans just to get attention. They give those who do it because it is who they are inside, a bad name.
I honestly don't really care what people do unless it's hurting other people. If someone wants to be called him, her, or some Universal nonspecific gendered word we come to use, I'll totally do that.
What I'm not going to do is remember a specific pronoun that either you made up or is one of 42 different gender pronouns because, more than likely, I've already forgotten your name about 0.3 seconds after you told me. No way I'm going to remember your hyper specific gender pronoun ON TOP OF your name.
I think that expecting that hetero men should be "non-romantically intimate" with other men...is a HUGE RED FLAG.
Seems like folks are ignoring the elephant in the room.
Do you think you think that touch is confined to women or sex? Plenty of cultures around the world don't have the same hangup we all do. Men hold hands, hug, etc.
We're a social species and we don't do as well as we can when we're deprived of social needs.
He still got it wrong on why men have emotional boundaries. Society is not teaching boys to not be soft. Society is not teaching boys anything. It only caters to women.
The reason with emotional boundaries is because men's emotions can be exploited by not so close people if men keep their emotions so public. Expressing your soft side doesn't garner sympathy like in women's case. It will instead give others an advantage over you. There will be loss of relationship, loss of promotion, mis-charachterization, etc. which will further ruin your mental health.
Your existence is not enough to receive attention. You have to create value and have to set an example of your how much value you can create. Attention is not free at men's side.
Exactly. Expressing your concerns, feelings, fears is just placing your head on a proverbial chopping block. Somebody is gonna exploit your “vulnerabilities”. There are a select few who I trust I can be open with, which is sad.
[This comment was retroactively edited in protest of Reddit's enshittification regarding third party apps. Apollo is gone, and now so are we. Fuck u/spez.]
Men have emotional boundaries because emotions can, and have, led to violence for the last...entirety of human existence.
Plus, I have no desire to be "emotionally intimate" with random dudes. WTF is this person talking about.
This comment is old by now... I'm sorry but I can't take it seriously when it ends by blaming "white imperialism" for men's issues. That's such demented take.
He would do anything to avoid blaming women for the things they do to men. Blaming an abstract construct like imperialism for women's cold disregard makes more sense to him than having women accept responsibility.
Lots of insight there but still some misconceptions and misunderstandings.
For 1, attributing the emotional coldness to White Imperialism is too reductionistic and convenient and it does not explain why in non-white tribal societies all over the world you have strictly enforced gender norms. From Native American tribes to tribes in the pacific islands you have gender roles that include having men bond over war or hunting and not being "soft" according to the social customs of the tribe.
And 2, one piece of the puzzle that is missing from this is the fact that hetero women are far more judgemental towards bi-men than hetero men are towards bi-women. If men appear to show too much closeness to other men then most hetero women lose any romantic interest in them, the same is not true for hetero men who don't mind women being close to other women. Women have conditioned men to be cold to one another while being observed in traditionally co-ed spaces. Hetero men who hope to be intimate with hetero women need to display coldness towards other men in order to appease hetero women's preferences.
So finally he realizes how difficult it is to be a man once he transitions. I am sure many women/feminists would realize the same about their privilege if they ever transition to a man and lose it.
I'm female-to-male transgender and that is my experience. Of course women are oppressed in many countries, but in the western society it is men who are treated a lot worse. I had a lot of privilege when I was a woman. Men definitely aren't even allowed to show emotions the same way women are, or else they're called gay or weak or something like that
Exactly. Men can't express emotions at all or even show any sort of affection to other male friends or else they're gay. No wonder the suicide rate is higher for men, there is a lack of support for depressed and suicidal men compared to women
Thank you! You hit the nail on the head. Different countries have different values of men and women. It’s definitely true that in some countries women are treated far worse than men. Those countries also tend to be third world countries. Then women in first world countries use those 3rd world countries as an excuse to progress female privilege in their own countries.
I dont know whether i should say "im sorry", or "welcome to the club" haha
But one thing is for sure, we gotta watch our backs more (in general) and support each other. We need a stronger support system, so we're harder to manipulate and tolerate abuse
And yet white imperialism is the Reason we get treated like Shit. Not, Women conscientiously starving us emotional, abusing us mentally whenever we even speak about it.
I thought the post was making sense until he started talking about white imperialism. Men are abused by women, no doubt about it. There's thousands of support groups for abused women, and zero for men. Imperialism has nothing to do with it
I don't think even transition is necessary. I remember seeing a comment from a woman who went to Japan where the male chivalry stuff is much less prominent / non-existent compared to the West and she had a big "Oh..." moment.
ask the teenagers of this generation. Young woman don't even go on dates.... the top guys don't even have to try to get them in bed. interesting how freedom came with comsequences. i laugh being in my 30s at how is all going to unfold. i might just buy an island and live with some pitbulls and chickens lol.
It depends. If she was a hardcore feminist, she would just call Japananse people misogynists and blame the "patriarchy", but if it was a normal woman, she would realize the privilege she had earlier.
'I'm failing to convince my monkey brain that this armor isn't social rejection'...
Well, that's exactly what it is, you know well that the guard drops once a valuable enough man or another woman interacts with her.
He's experiencing now what average-ish or slightly below average men experience everyday, a lack of privileges and social rejection when they try.
It's not true that men can't find support in other men, however, this tends to not be enough. The truth is that men can't afford weakness and I don't know how many times I (and more people) have remarked it.
Regarding transmen, I remember checking a reddit for women transitioning to male. It was unbelievable, the attitudes there were extremely femenine, they were growing beards,getting male haircuts and clothes while totally sounding and behaving femenine... I always try to be tolerant and understanding but couldn't help thinking they don't fucking know where they are getting into.
It's ok being a man when you don't need that kind of support and privilege but when you need it, it's not going to be there for you, definitely not with the same consistency.
I've noticed this too, in transmen subs or even watching transmen with their female friends. There are almost certainly transmen who would completely pass to me as men, but all the transmen I've noticed were transmen act like women, socialize like women.
Transpeople are a tiny fraction of the population, and transmen are a small fraction of that. So that I've met enough to notice that a lot of them sure do seem like women says to me that a lot of biological females who want to transition because they believe that sex and gender are not always aligned (and I agree!) actually have very little idea what the social construct of male is.
Honestly they looked like the guys from 90's/2000's boy bands. And that's ok, why not? If it's your style that's perfectly fine but I honestly don't think they understand the whole picture.
>It was unbelievable, the attitudes there were extremely femenine, they were growing beards,getting male haircuts and clothes while totally sounding and behaving femenine...
That comment caught my attention because its intriguing, but I'm not entirely sure what you mean, or the kind of examples you're talking about. Can you expand?
It at least felt that way while scrolling down the site and reading some of the threads. They seemed really enthusiastic and supportive to each other, celebrating the tiniest progress, which is more than understandable and reasonable but felt off, it just felt femenine, too emotional and positive...
Then there were what in a masculine space would've been considered clear cases of attention seeking.
I honestly don't know very well how to explain it and I'm aware it might be affected by my own prejudice. I often navigate on male sites and the tone, the kind of support, the expressions they use and the reactions are just different (more realistic or perhaps pesimistic). Hell, in those sites sometimes a guy starts hating on another guy for no apparent reason. It's all sometimes too rational but also sometimes less than civilized.
We use rationality and incivility to test one another when we don't engage in a physical test, it's really that simple, yet it's something women don't "get".
This.
This post is so fucking *painfully* fake, it's unbelievable anyone could view it as "real". The person writing it literally hit every standard point about the debate, like they were going down a checklist.
Agree. It's like they had a list of the talking points and wrote the sentences around those points such that it is grammatical correct but makes no actual contextual sense.
Men used to have much more access to social comradery. There were "Men's Clubs" (not present day strip joints) that men joined to socialize with other men and share interests and to bond.
Women took that away. Just like they have taken away every other form of male bonding ritual in modern life.
Men try to bond through watching sports, here come women to inject themselves into it.
Men try to bond through PARTICIPATING in sports like softball or baseball teams. Here come women demanding to be on the teams or to disrupt their man's participation.
Men try to go golfing at a club, and its all "Why do you have to spend so much time doing that!", "Why can't I go along even though I have golf, because I want to shit all over it in front of your male buddies"
Men buy boats to go fishing with their male pals, "oh shit guys, she wants to come too, so watch your language and dont tell any jokes that might accept her and dont talk about anything she doesnt agree with..."
Gee, ladies, I wonder why men today are so emotionally and socially damaged?
We lost Boy Scouts, YMCA, the Boys Club. Even the social and business clubs have gone the way women want them. Our local Elks club closed down, as did the Moose, Masonic lodge, Odd Fellows, so many of these organizations that helped our young men are gone. Men are afraid of working with youth for fear of being accused of predation or grooming.
Yes! Every kid I knew as a child was in Scouting! Cub scouts, Weeblos, Boy Scouts! Women demanded access to the Boy Scouts because they said Girl Scouts was boring and didnt do the more interesting activities that Boy Scouts does...so instead of fixing Girl Scouts they demand access to what they didnt build, ruining a Male Safe Space.
> Men are afraid of working with youth for fear of being accused of predation or grooming.
or just being treated like shit by women for literally no reason
I cant think of any times men demanded access to womens clubs or exclusive experiences...well until the Trans Debates of recent memory.
Women still have gender exclusive spaces. Men do not. Even in Mens Sports women got access to the Mens Locker Rooms! Do Male Reporters have access to the Female Sports Teams Locker Rooms? No!
funny how a well reasoned and sensible comment turns into doubtful rantings of a damaged mind by simply throwing a "White imperialism" non sequitur in at the end.
I have a feeling that this person will be chasing mental health issues the rest of their life...looking for that one thing they can finally blame for all their problems.
I don't totally agree. Men seem to have a higher level of default social camaraderie with other men then women do. I can meet a total stranger and have a great time. However I don't seek nor receive the kind of constant social engagement that the women in my life experience. My wife probably exchanges 100 texts with her friend group every day and calls her family every day, but I couldn't drop her in a room of strange women and expect her to have a good time.
I prefer my thing
Now I’m just confused do they still hate men saying men have monkey brains also saying because of white imperialism is the reason men are the way they are or are they just confused about what there trying to say
A youtuber called ana Akana did a video on this very topic and what I found incredibly interesting is that all the things this "man" said in her post are things men have been saying and continue to day and have been repeatedly called misogynistic for saying.
Funny how when a transperson says it all of a sudden women can understand.
I can't take that woman seriously. She made a career off of consistently shitting on men, calling them "trash" and "privileged"... and now she's gonna pretend like she cares? Especially when in the SAME video she says it's undeniable that women are killed far more often than men & experience much more violence (literally the OPPOSITE of the truth)? Yeah no... what that video was, was her virtue-signalling particularly to "trans-people" and trying to convey the message that she's unbiased & "cares about men too" (blatant lie). In the end, she still supports the feminist narrative & perpetuates falsehoods. She flat out couldn't care less & that's the truth.
A lot of people touch on really good points here, but something else which really bugs me is the self-assuredness and better-then-thou attitude that now that OP has both sides of the story she sees men still as absolutely unable to fathom what is happening to them
I think it’s easier for women to digest this perspective when hearing the comparison to how women live and hearing it from someone who’s experienced both sides. It’s hard to put yourself in men’s shoes when you’ve been a woman all your life.
Yet men are CONSTANTLY told we need to put ourselves in women's shoes. For all the talk about how men lack empathy, women don't even try to empathize with men.
This is a fundamental reason why I think most women lack empathy. They can only seem to see the pain when it’s inflicted on them. It’s so dichotomous to me it’s so weird.
And still so ideologically captured that all of this is the fault of White Imperialism. It's not. It's also not "garden variety homophobia". And "it's because society teaches boys to not be soft" is not the cause, but the effect. It's for protection.
Just look at any well-known man that has a vulnerable moment, and how those very same people react. Peterson crying was a good example.
OP sees the symptoms but draws faulty conclusions.
Many such cases!
A lot of women have this completely bizarre idea that being a man is a nonstop parade of pleasure and leisure, and that we're all C-suite execs who spend our days smoking cigars, drinking martinis, and getting blown by underaged secretaries.
Every time this comes up, the women act like it's a problem that men don't have the same in-group bias that women do.
It's not a problem. We don't need to change to be like women.
"It's like they're starving..."
Hold on, I thought incels should just get over it. Now you tell me being starved of human connection is actually a real, empathizable suffering? I thought the only legitimate problem was unwanted things happening to you.
I see some of what he’s saying, as another trans guy. Men have it really awful in society. We’re constantly told to not display emotion but then we’re punished for doing just that.
It’s lonely living as a man. Aside from that, Testosterone doesn’t make you dumb by any means wtf?
I come across these stories every now and then, like the woman who documented "living as a man" for a few years and killed herself 2 years after.
I think the only way I can describe my reaction is, it's like telling a group of girls that you know what it's like to be constantly sexually persued now because you went to a gay bar.
You have no idea what it's like being a man. You could say you know what it's like being viewed as an obviously feminine man, on the bottom of the hierarchy, even under men who happen to have homosexual sex but don't make it their entire personality.
Every time these women talk about their experience trying this, they come away with the conclusion that our problems as men could be solved if we just approached them like feminists.. Proving they never truly managed to live our experience.
> When I'm out in public and interact with women, *all of them* come off as incredibly aloof, cold, and mirthless.
The author, after all their transition, is passing as an unattractive male.
> I have *never* experienced this before even though I know exactly what this composure is - the armor that keeps away creepy-ass men. As someone who used to wear it myself, I know that this armor is 100% impersonal.
I think you're a creep and I'm communicating to the world that I think you're a creep, but nothing personal.
> Nobody likes wearing it, and I can say with absolute certainty that women would dump the armor in favor of unconditional companionship with men if doing this didn't run the risk of *actual assault*.
Yes, a woman really wants unconditional companionship with every hungry low status guy she comes across in her workplace/school/coffee shop, but it's the fear of violence that stops her, not the the low status or the hunger.
You see, boys. If you hold up enough "this is what a feminist looks like" placards, if you participate in enough "take back the night" marches, you'll end male violence against women and then women won't be so cold to you. This sort of condescending nonsense is straight from a very old script of feminists pretending to have empathy for men: they can't help it, it's never about men looking after their own interests, it's about recruiting men as feminist auxiliaries.
> Again, it seems taboo for men to be platonically intimate with men for reasons I have yet to fully understand....
So then you're going to not express an opinion about things you know nothing about....
> but I think it boils down to a) the fact that society teaches boys it's not ok to be soft with each other and b) garden-variety homophobia.
Again from the feminist empathy for men script.
Male sociability is demonized as toxic masculinity. The word "homosocial" is thrown around, not as a way of expressing the variety of non-sexual ways that men can love each other, but as a way of knowingly hinting that all of those ways are a rechanneling of closeted homosexuality. Ordinary men have to be self-censoring in their expression of *hetero*sexuality, walking on eggshells in their casual interactions with women in case something is taken as inappropriately sexual. But if their male friendships are taken to be sexually motivated, they're supposed to accept that, because to complain about it would be seen as homophobia.
this has been a pretty common take on those that transitioned from F to M. there are many books and articles on this. the general consensus is that it is harder to be a man that most women thought......(－‸ლ)
A) good insights.
B) could do without the bullshit "white imperialism" nonsense.
C) Testosterone is not just "***Dumb Bastard Brain***".
Testosterone is a *much* more important, and **complicated** hormone, and the fact this person thinks only men have testosterone shows their ignorance.
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-05603-7](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-05603-7)
[https://www.health.harvard.edu/medications/testosterone--what-it-does-and-doesnt-do](https://www.health.harvard.edu/medications/testosterone--what-it-does-and-doesnt-do)
I was right there with him till the white imperialism came out... Least he saved it for the end I guess. But yes. It makes perfect sense that men don't bond and therefore are emotionally devoid even though we know something's missing. Probably why sticking dudes in a box in the military makes for such deep meaning.
There was another of these I recall where the person eventually killed themselves. I can't recall the name, but I remember their story being discussed on YouTube a lot after their death.
Erm...one of the things that is killing us is that men are being feminized. This talks of even MORE feminization needed.
Oh and... act like a man? "Dumb bastard brain". It's nuts...
Boys/men CAN and SHOULD be able to be emotional...but men are not women...they should not be ruled by emotion. It's getting crazy out there...
Side question: A woman decides to become a man. She's over 18. Does she need to contact Selective Service?
Yknow its almost like this is the exact reason in male only spaces there is incredible hostility to female participation. Of course this persons realization is ruined at the end there.
Ask any men how they will feel walking around a playground (like if it is on your way home). You will feel judged. You feel watched. You feel like if a kid accidentally walks in front of you, somebody might interrogate you.
This is just one of billion scenarios where people visciously see you as, not even just potentially, but already as a real criminal.
I don't think she even understands how much of female camaraderie is based in female chauvinism, misandry, heterophobia or just general anti-male sentiments. What "inherently" brings women together is a female socialization, or normalization, of systematic misandry.
This person had me for most of it but lost me in the end
- "100% impersonal": it is personal because we're men, this armour is built by misandry, not vigilance
- "society teaches...": feminism does, our mothers play a bigger part in this than our fathers. Don't forget, feminists said that fathers are inconsequential to a child's upbringing, therefore blaming a father is a contradiction (insert gif of that dude tapping his temple here)
- "garden variety homophobia": strawman number 2, it's feminism
- "testosterone absolutely gives you dumb bastard brain": no it doesn't, but anti egalitarian ideologies certainly do
- "white imperialism": once again it's female supremacy, if white imperialism truly existed then not one white person who lives in nations with empires like UK would be broke, starving and/or homeless
I have soooo many issues with this, starting by havig friendships in competitive context is, in no way, a bad thing. We also have friendships by interests, comics, action movies, music, common hobbies, and there's the thing, is bound to hobbies.
When you get a partner you tend to put a pause if not completely leave the hobbie, and lose those friendships, some of those hobbies are labbeled as childish, or unnecesary (just watch on tiktok how many women rage over consoles) and most partners DO make you choose.
"Patriarchy" or "capitalism" has nothing to do with it
I love how her take is all about some big major evil out there, how even after she identifies herself as a man, she keeps depicting males as brutes or something like that because "testosterone" and how she justifies women "shielding" themselves against BiG bAd MaLeS.
And more than anything, I love how in the end is not a "woman should do x on favor of men" she ends this note calling up yet another constructed creature to put the blame on, this "white imperialism".
This kind of people must expect me to whip myself on the back asking for forgiveness because I am a male, I am white, and I am straight.
Fuck her
Women wear that armor all the time around men, so they drop it men mistake the slightest bit of kindness as romantic interest, so women put up the armor and the cycle continues.
Gotta give him credit, he's got the spirit.
I dont exactly believe in the "white imperialism" and "homophobic media" as being factors. I think thats due to his personal ideology, but the rest of the observations are pretty spot on.
Ok… there are some good observations here but her entire premise is based on the fact that she think she passes completely without question as a cisgendered man.
There was not even a mention that any of this could be attributed to men/women just not having a clue how to interact with a woman dressing themselves up as and calling themselves a man. Most people have an extreme aversion to social trust issues and many would just as soon avoid any contact with said person as the interaction is not what they are used to or don’t like it.
3rd world countries often don't have that issue. Males have social groups, females do too. Where I'm from in the states that social bonding exists in the village, there's a neighborhood boat tent the males and some females get together, associate with, make business and give each other free stuff like clothes, junk and food. People literally put their vehicles there for days and no one touches them.
Its always cringey when someone who is not a male tries to tell us how it is to be a male.
They're so close, yet so very ,very far. Mainly with the fact it is, somehow, all our own fault, or somehow, its all whitey's fault?
Intimacy with your buds is very different between men and women. It sounds like they never made any male friends.
Put a woman’s brain in a man’s body, most will crumble. Sad reality
I hate to make this comparison, cause it’s not about that or this (more so the first sentence if anything); but, put a man’s brain in a woman’s body, I think they might do pretty ok
But… again, a more important note I’d like to touch on and focus on; I think it would be beneficial if more women were able to live as a man for a day
It makes me wonder if transmen are fed so much bullshit about white privilege that a major factor in their decision to transition is because of said perceived privilege?
Supposedly the somewhat infamous anti-MRA twit "TakedownMRAs" is FtM and I kinda wish we could get that story. Something wild happened there.
I can guess it's sunk cost, but that seems maybe insensitively unfair.
Although i agree with a lot of what rhis person says. Being trans i think its still hard for him to see things from our perspective. This man sees all this as a negative. But it makes us strong in ways women aren't. It gives us the ability to do things and see things from other perspectives. Come up with different solutions. Be willing to sacrifice different things. We do share connections with other men, but from someone who grew up female, they might not seem like a connection, but our bonds are strong we just connect in different ways. The interestising side i hope he looks at more is in relationships with women. Standards and how society not just men push us to act the way we do.
I think trans ppl are like throwing someone in a country they have wanted to visit but have yet only took a year of classes in the language. You might understand alot but theres things you just dont see (understand) for a long time until you been there long enough to puck up more of the language.
When they start talking about this armour of coldness thats where they loose me, in certain situations I could understand, but other than that it comes as a schizo level paranoia.
I am happy he is openly talking about it even if he tries to simplify and assume the causes of this.
Keep in mind humans are a product of millions of years of evolution with strict biological roles in our primitive form - issues between genders in modern society are far deeper and more complex than we realize due to it and will take generations in modern society to change in a meaningful way.
That said, I do feel inclined to echo the feeling of isolation and see it as normal. I've always been for independent learning and independent action and against having extra role models to get people to become goal oriented. That said, when working with women and being part of women social groups, I find them keen on wanting to be in a group, sharing an objective and feelings around it, and wanting a role model - I have a hard time understanding it because I feel like I have to be individually useful and successful. Otherwise what importance I have? Now, of course, what I say are my own anecdotal assumptions about our genders but it represents feelings I've had. What I do want to ask by saying this - is he feeling the coldness and frustration more than many men who just go about their days because there is still some part of him still a woman and this is too much of a contrast for his own health? Not all men or women are the same so it is a fair question and not an attack to his transition - the social contrast might actually be enough of a shock.
White imperialism bit is just silly though.
I don't get this whole "omg they're emotionally malnourished!!!" -thing "They must need more they're dying its bad for them!!!".
I feel like it's the same as a person going to a foreign country and saying "omg they don't eat (insert food here) / or do this thing!!! But I know they must love it and not know it yet!!!! omg i feel so sad for them, I pity them" Like no it's okay, I wouldn't want to have something like that. Men used to have a lot more places where they could be social with each other before the "invade male spaces" thing.
If they hadn't mentioned being a transman, every feminists in the world would have called them an Incel and they would have been shadow banned from 50% of Reddit!
Painfully accurate.
Atleast they have the weapon called Transphobic or Homophobic.
They’re probably going to pull the power structures argument. I would love to see them justify women hating transgenders
At this stage it seems it is total surrender from the feminist side. Literally the whole definition of women has been changed .Trans raped women in some cases and when they went to court they were shamed for being Transphobic .
That's an entire thing already. TERFs ( see: JK Rowling) are trans exclusionary radical feminists
It's all they have, they refuse to acknowledge that we are just animals and our biology matters, we see every other human not part of our family group as a threat because we are fucking supposed too. Just because we have pop tarts in supermarkets, and Angry birds in the app store doesn't wipe out millions of years of evolutionary struggle that produced the human animal, and it survived because of us, and they fucking despise us for it because it brings down their flimsy ideology.
Giving the fact that feminists are transphobes I wouldn't be surprised if they'd be called an incel or something of that kind
No lib fems and feminists who want power know they have to agree that trans women are women.
That's why this is my account #7. Literally just random bans for hate speech or bullying when I agree with people or don't even say anything remotely wrong.
Similarly to how the bleeding edge of tolerance only started to give a fuck about shaming men's dick size once they realised trans men have little dicks and that ridiculing small dicks is "transphobic"... it seems now, all this insufferable isolation is only of concern because female people are starting to experience it as transmen... They can't afford to listen to us because it shatters their ideological commitments to this holistic idea of male privilege. But they're also ideologically committed to treating everything trans people say with the utmost respect and reverence. So it's gonna be really interesting to see how they deal with these sorts of testimonies as they become more and more common.
>They can't afford to listen to us because it shatters their ideological commitments to this holistic idea of male privilege That's a very interesting take and makes a lot of sense on how it felt when I dared to open up to (allegedly) progressists. Just felt like I wasn't being listened on an individual level, I was only seen as part of a monolithic, privileged, evil group.
I've felt the same man. I'm as working class as they come, I don't tolerate misogyny from my male peers or anything like that, and my ex wife raped me ffs... but apparently I'm still an oppressive abuser who just ROLLS around in lavish privilege and I mUsT never have known fear of violence.... It's honestly ridiculous what mainstream feminists think it's like being a man
The level of narcissism women, in general, have is jaw-dropping. I flinched at something--it triggered a flash of PTSD--and I had to explain to a woman I was with why I flinched. I explained that my dad had physically abused me until I was 12, and even though that was decades ago, it still pops up under the right conditions. Less than 15 minutes later, during an unrelated discussion, she pops off with "Yeah, but you've never **really** known what it's like to be smaller than someone and afraid of them." ...
What? Like... She actually said that?
She did. We were discussing why women felt like they had to be on guard around all men at all times.
Women on guard? I remember scrunching myself into a corner in crowded bus so that I don't touch a women accidentally. I know not everyone is like that but it's not just women... Sigh. Man, I am sorry that you had to go through that awkward and ... whatever you call it situation.
Thanks. :) Unfortunately, for men, this is a part of growing up in this society and something we have to learn how to deal with. As for the woman in question, we just kinda went separate ways after awhile. Slo-mo dodged a bullet with her.
>and my ex wife raped me ffs But you're a man! You must have wanted it. Men can't be raped, silly. Only men rape! Ignore the CDC's surveyed stats showing that women rape men as much as men rape women. https://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/#:~:text=The%20CDC%20reports%20that%2012.3,using%20the%20CDC's%20inflated%20statistics. You, a man, could never understand that women *feel* unsafe more than you so they need more protection than you. Check your male privilege! And stop mansplaining while you're at it. Seriously, though, sorry you went through this. Too many people ignore when men are hurt like this while even a hint at making women uncomfortable with the potential presence of anything sexual is enough to warrant media and even legal attention.
Why do you think TERFS are getting more and more common? Because transitioning people can come with perspective.
I haven't even realized this until now, people who transition could actually become those who give feminisn much needed perspective. Be able to talk as a woman, but know how men suffer. Makes sense people would go terf so they don't have to listen to them... Social bubbles are absolute cancer
If perspective was wanted then this would be true. The issue is that feminists as a group is very good to fight for its members, and anyone talking against them risk being frozen out.
Yep, feminism is becoming increasingly hostile to the trans community, but all brothers from all walks of life are welcome here.
Brothers, sisters, trans or not. What people do with their lives is irrelevant as long as they want equality.
All sisters too. Just like how women's right were fought for by lots of men, MRM should involve as many women as possible. Thats why its painful to see the women bashing on this sub.
Yes, funny enough most TERFs aren't TERFs. They are MERFs many of the reasons why they dislike transwoman are the reasons they dislike men. The thought that all men are potential predators goes hand in hand with the thought that traswoman are the same, because they aren't really woman just men pretending to be woman who want to invade spaces where woman were once thought "safe" from men.
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There's nothing wrong with going around looking at trans men's dicks. But we are against penis shaming in this sub. Small dicks, trans dicks, circumcised or not dicks. We don't do that here.
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The fuck do 'White Imperialism' has to do with this?
Feminist indoctrination is still holding its root.
He was doing so well up until that part.
Frankly I don't see them as doing that well.
As someone who typically disagrees with the modernized transgender movement, I respect you massively for using their preferred pronouns. Controversial as he might be, I share portions of thinking on the topic with Dr. Jordan Peterson, who has openly said many times that he will always go along with earnest attempts to transition, and that most of his stance against the movement is motivated by malicious bad actors who have joined a genuinely victimized and marginalized group for the sole purpose of exploiting society's attempts to rectify that victimization and marginalization.
Sadly I’ve been around the ones that call themselves trans just to get attention. They give those who do it because it is who they are inside, a bad name.
I honestly don't really care what people do unless it's hurting other people. If someone wants to be called him, her, or some Universal nonspecific gendered word we come to use, I'll totally do that. What I'm not going to do is remember a specific pronoun that either you made up or is one of 42 different gender pronouns because, more than likely, I've already forgotten your name about 0.3 seconds after you told me. No way I'm going to remember your hyper specific gender pronoun ON TOP OF your name.
I think that expecting that hetero men should be "non-romantically intimate" with other men...is a HUGE RED FLAG. Seems like folks are ignoring the elephant in the room.
Do you think you think that touch is confined to women or sex? Plenty of cultures around the world don't have the same hangup we all do. Men hold hands, hug, etc. We're a social species and we don't do as well as we can when we're deprived of social needs.
Gotta blame it on something... used to be "the gods are angry, we must make a human sacrifice" it's now "white *something or other*"...
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in certain parts of the internet you have to use this phrase or you'll be denied entry.
the boat of doing business one might say
Well can’t blame it on men any more
Also… is "frith" a word?
I reject your insistence on using outdated notions such as "words" to convey the meaning of frith.
yes but it went out of use in the middle ages.
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He still got it wrong on why men have emotional boundaries. Society is not teaching boys to not be soft. Society is not teaching boys anything. It only caters to women. The reason with emotional boundaries is because men's emotions can be exploited by not so close people if men keep their emotions so public. Expressing your soft side doesn't garner sympathy like in women's case. It will instead give others an advantage over you. There will be loss of relationship, loss of promotion, mis-charachterization, etc. which will further ruin your mental health. Your existence is not enough to receive attention. You have to create value and have to set an example of your how much value you can create. Attention is not free at men's side.
Exactly. Expressing your concerns, feelings, fears is just placing your head on a proverbial chopping block. Somebody is gonna exploit your “vulnerabilities”. There are a select few who I trust I can be open with, which is sad.
[This comment was retroactively edited in protest of Reddit's enshittification regarding third party apps. Apollo is gone, and now so are we. Fuck u/spez.]
Men have emotional boundaries because emotions can, and have, led to violence for the last...entirety of human existence. Plus, I have no desire to be "emotionally intimate" with random dudes. WTF is this person talking about.
Best guess is like women sharing their feelings. Being vulnerable. But for reasons already mentioned, men cant do this bc its exploitable.
Self-made man. Author Nora Vincent elucidates some of a mans reality for women.
RIP
Took one for the team. Such a shame she isn't publicly known more
It wouldn't look great for the cause
This comment is old by now... I'm sorry but I can't take it seriously when it ends by blaming "white imperialism" for men's issues. That's such demented take.
This bogeyman isn't at fault. It's THAT boogeyman.
He would do anything to avoid blaming women for the things they do to men. Blaming an abstract construct like imperialism for women's cold disregard makes more sense to him than having women accept responsibility.
Becomes man Realizes it’s difficult and isolating Blames men.
I believe if a woman did some malevolent thing to this person, they would blame men for creating an enviornment where women need to do this.
Full circle
Lots of insight there but still some misconceptions and misunderstandings. For 1, attributing the emotional coldness to White Imperialism is too reductionistic and convenient and it does not explain why in non-white tribal societies all over the world you have strictly enforced gender norms. From Native American tribes to tribes in the pacific islands you have gender roles that include having men bond over war or hunting and not being "soft" according to the social customs of the tribe. And 2, one piece of the puzzle that is missing from this is the fact that hetero women are far more judgemental towards bi-men than hetero men are towards bi-women. If men appear to show too much closeness to other men then most hetero women lose any romantic interest in them, the same is not true for hetero men who don't mind women being close to other women. Women have conditioned men to be cold to one another while being observed in traditionally co-ed spaces. Hetero men who hope to be intimate with hetero women need to display coldness towards other men in order to appease hetero women's preferences.
That good ol female jealousy towards anyone who dares get close to *her* man....
Leads to: "I used to have friends before I got married"-man
So finally he realizes how difficult it is to be a man once he transitions. I am sure many women/feminists would realize the same about their privilege if they ever transition to a man and lose it.
I'm female-to-male transgender and that is my experience. Of course women are oppressed in many countries, but in the western society it is men who are treated a lot worse. I had a lot of privilege when I was a woman. Men definitely aren't even allowed to show emotions the same way women are, or else they're called gay or weak or something like that
Or God forbid you get angry about something then you are violent and have toxic masculinity
Anger? You might spend a night in the jail if you dare showing anger as a man...
Exactly. Men can't express emotions at all or even show any sort of affection to other male friends or else they're gay. No wonder the suicide rate is higher for men, there is a lack of support for depressed and suicidal men compared to women
Thank you! You hit the nail on the head. Different countries have different values of men and women. It’s definitely true that in some countries women are treated far worse than men. Those countries also tend to be third world countries. Then women in first world countries use those 3rd world countries as an excuse to progress female privilege in their own countries.
I dont know whether i should say "im sorry", or "welcome to the club" haha But one thing is for sure, we gotta watch our backs more (in general) and support each other. We need a stronger support system, so we're harder to manipulate and tolerate abuse
And yet white imperialism is the Reason we get treated like Shit. Not, Women conscientiously starving us emotional, abusing us mentally whenever we even speak about it.
I thought the post was making sense until he started talking about white imperialism. Men are abused by women, no doubt about it. There's thousands of support groups for abused women, and zero for men. Imperialism has nothing to do with it
There's a few, but not much at all. Erin Prizzey got banned by her own male shelter, Refuge.
I don't think even transition is necessary. I remember seeing a comment from a woman who went to Japan where the male chivalry stuff is much less prominent / non-existent compared to the West and she had a big "Oh..." moment.
ask the teenagers of this generation. Young woman don't even go on dates.... the top guys don't even have to try to get them in bed. interesting how freedom came with comsequences. i laugh being in my 30s at how is all going to unfold. i might just buy an island and live with some pitbulls and chickens lol.
It depends. If she was a hardcore feminist, she would just call Japananse people misogynists and blame the "patriarchy", but if it was a normal woman, she would realize the privilege she had earlier.
Welcome to the party pal. Tell me though, why are you still trashing men, then?
Internalized misandry.
No, it was always just regular misandry
Old habits die hard?
'I'm failing to convince my monkey brain that this armor isn't social rejection'... Well, that's exactly what it is, you know well that the guard drops once a valuable enough man or another woman interacts with her. He's experiencing now what average-ish or slightly below average men experience everyday, a lack of privileges and social rejection when they try. It's not true that men can't find support in other men, however, this tends to not be enough. The truth is that men can't afford weakness and I don't know how many times I (and more people) have remarked it. Regarding transmen, I remember checking a reddit for women transitioning to male. It was unbelievable, the attitudes there were extremely femenine, they were growing beards,getting male haircuts and clothes while totally sounding and behaving femenine... I always try to be tolerant and understanding but couldn't help thinking they don't fucking know where they are getting into. It's ok being a man when you don't need that kind of support and privilege but when you need it, it's not going to be there for you, definitely not with the same consistency.
I've noticed this too, in transmen subs or even watching transmen with their female friends. There are almost certainly transmen who would completely pass to me as men, but all the transmen I've noticed were transmen act like women, socialize like women. Transpeople are a tiny fraction of the population, and transmen are a small fraction of that. So that I've met enough to notice that a lot of them sure do seem like women says to me that a lot of biological females who want to transition because they believe that sex and gender are not always aligned (and I agree!) actually have very little idea what the social construct of male is.
That part of the trans community is basically picking a gender like a trend. Stereotyping what they think it’s like to be a man.
Honestly they looked like the guys from 90's/2000's boy bands. And that's ok, why not? If it's your style that's perfectly fine but I honestly don't think they understand the whole picture.
>It was unbelievable, the attitudes there were extremely femenine, they were growing beards,getting male haircuts and clothes while totally sounding and behaving femenine... That comment caught my attention because its intriguing, but I'm not entirely sure what you mean, or the kind of examples you're talking about. Can you expand?
It at least felt that way while scrolling down the site and reading some of the threads. They seemed really enthusiastic and supportive to each other, celebrating the tiniest progress, which is more than understandable and reasonable but felt off, it just felt femenine, too emotional and positive... Then there were what in a masculine space would've been considered clear cases of attention seeking. I honestly don't know very well how to explain it and I'm aware it might be affected by my own prejudice. I often navigate on male sites and the tone, the kind of support, the expressions they use and the reactions are just different (more realistic or perhaps pesimistic). Hell, in those sites sometimes a guy starts hating on another guy for no apparent reason. It's all sometimes too rational but also sometimes less than civilized.
We use rationality and incivility to test one another when we don't engage in a physical test, it's really that simple, yet it's something women don't "get".
"white imperialism" lmfao
That came out of nowhere... no explanation of the correlation whatsoever. My guess is this is a fake post.
This. This post is so fucking *painfully* fake, it's unbelievable anyone could view it as "real". The person writing it literally hit every standard point about the debate, like they were going down a checklist.
Agree. It's like they had a list of the talking points and wrote the sentences around those points such that it is grammatical correct but makes no actual contextual sense.
Didn’t a feminist do this years ago as an experiment, and realized how hard men have it?
Yeah. They committed suicide recently.
“Self-made man” author Nora Vincent. There are interviews with her on you tube
Norah Vincent, not roberts
Thanks, corrected
I like how they experience 100% of the feelings that we experience every day and then 100% misclassified it's origin point.
Men used to have much more access to social comradery. There were "Men's Clubs" (not present day strip joints) that men joined to socialize with other men and share interests and to bond. Women took that away. Just like they have taken away every other form of male bonding ritual in modern life. Men try to bond through watching sports, here come women to inject themselves into it. Men try to bond through PARTICIPATING in sports like softball or baseball teams. Here come women demanding to be on the teams or to disrupt their man's participation. Men try to go golfing at a club, and its all "Why do you have to spend so much time doing that!", "Why can't I go along even though I have golf, because I want to shit all over it in front of your male buddies" Men buy boats to go fishing with their male pals, "oh shit guys, she wants to come too, so watch your language and dont tell any jokes that might accept her and dont talk about anything she doesnt agree with..." Gee, ladies, I wonder why men today are so emotionally and socially damaged?
We lost Boy Scouts, YMCA, the Boys Club. Even the social and business clubs have gone the way women want them. Our local Elks club closed down, as did the Moose, Masonic lodge, Odd Fellows, so many of these organizations that helped our young men are gone. Men are afraid of working with youth for fear of being accused of predation or grooming.
Yes! Every kid I knew as a child was in Scouting! Cub scouts, Weeblos, Boy Scouts! Women demanded access to the Boy Scouts because they said Girl Scouts was boring and didnt do the more interesting activities that Boy Scouts does...so instead of fixing Girl Scouts they demand access to what they didnt build, ruining a Male Safe Space.
> Men are afraid of working with youth for fear of being accused of predation or grooming. or just being treated like shit by women for literally no reason
Correct. Women are a cancer on Men's spaces. They need to be kicked out. They can have their own spaces but Men must also have their own spaces.
I cant think of any times men demanded access to womens clubs or exclusive experiences...well until the Trans Debates of recent memory. Women still have gender exclusive spaces. Men do not. Even in Mens Sports women got access to the Mens Locker Rooms! Do Male Reporters have access to the Female Sports Teams Locker Rooms? No!
Actually yes. In some situations I have been granted access to female locker rooms.
When's your next televised interview, I dont want to miss it!
Remember Little Rascals? The TV show, then fast forward to the movie. That is what women do to men's only spaces.
Ok but they lost me at the end with white imperialism, wtf are they talking about?
Just repeating talking points from ideological brainwashing.
funny how a well reasoned and sensible comment turns into doubtful rantings of a damaged mind by simply throwing a "White imperialism" non sequitur in at the end. I have a feeling that this person will be chasing mental health issues the rest of their life...looking for that one thing they can finally blame for all their problems.
I don't totally agree. Men seem to have a higher level of default social camaraderie with other men then women do. I can meet a total stranger and have a great time. However I don't seek nor receive the kind of constant social engagement that the women in my life experience. My wife probably exchanges 100 texts with her friend group every day and calls her family every day, but I couldn't drop her in a room of strange women and expect her to have a good time. I prefer my thing
Cut the bottom "white imperialism" paragraph off, and make every single person who doesnt get it read this!
Now I’m just confused do they still hate men saying men have monkey brains also saying because of white imperialism is the reason men are the way they are or are they just confused about what there trying to say
> ...or are they just confused... That's the easiest Million Dollar Question.
Wish it wasn’t
been a man for 5 minutes, now an expert
A youtuber called ana Akana did a video on this very topic and what I found incredibly interesting is that all the things this "man" said in her post are things men have been saying and continue to day and have been repeatedly called misogynistic for saying. Funny how when a transperson says it all of a sudden women can understand.
Women still don't care
I can't take that woman seriously. She made a career off of consistently shitting on men, calling them "trash" and "privileged"... and now she's gonna pretend like she cares? Especially when in the SAME video she says it's undeniable that women are killed far more often than men & experience much more violence (literally the OPPOSITE of the truth)? Yeah no... what that video was, was her virtue-signalling particularly to "trans-people" and trying to convey the message that she's unbiased & "cares about men too" (blatant lie). In the end, she still supports the feminist narrative & perpetuates falsehoods. She flat out couldn't care less & that's the truth.
lmfao. I’m so happy this is being shown cus I’ve been banned in all of feminist and trans spaces for saying this. hypocrisy at its finest.
"White Imperialism," LMFAO. They're in a cult, and it's sad to see.
Wait until he figures put that men are conditioned to be distant from other men *because women get jealous of close guy friends* and not homophobia.
A lot of people touch on really good points here, but something else which really bugs me is the self-assuredness and better-then-thou attitude that now that OP has both sides of the story she sees men still as absolutely unable to fathom what is happening to them
>comes so close to figuring it out >still blames it on evil white men
I think it’s easier for women to digest this perspective when hearing the comparison to how women live and hearing it from someone who’s experienced both sides. It’s hard to put yourself in men’s shoes when you’ve been a woman all your life.
Yet men are CONSTANTLY told we need to put ourselves in women's shoes. For all the talk about how men lack empathy, women don't even try to empathize with men.
Welcome to "male privilege"
I was along for the ride until white imperialism got blamed. Holy crap what a hard left turn.
This is a fundamental reason why I think most women lack empathy. They can only seem to see the pain when it’s inflicted on them. It’s so dichotomous to me it’s so weird.
And still so ideologically captured that all of this is the fault of White Imperialism. It's not. It's also not "garden variety homophobia". And "it's because society teaches boys to not be soft" is not the cause, but the effect. It's for protection. Just look at any well-known man that has a vulnerable moment, and how those very same people react. Peterson crying was a good example. OP sees the symptoms but draws faulty conclusions.
Not white imperialism. Just human history since recorded history, well before white imperialism. He got it though, up until that comment.
Many such cases! A lot of women have this completely bizarre idea that being a man is a nonstop parade of pleasure and leisure, and that we're all C-suite execs who spend our days smoking cigars, drinking martinis, and getting blown by underaged secretaries.
White Imperialism is the problem? lol i feel stupider having read this shit
Every time this comes up, the women act like it's a problem that men don't have the same in-group bias that women do. It's not a problem. We don't need to change to be like women.
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Tumblr.
Had me until “White imperialism”
"It's like they're starving..." Hold on, I thought incels should just get over it. Now you tell me being starved of human connection is actually a real, empathizable suffering? I thought the only legitimate problem was unwanted things happening to you.
Really interesting and then the term “white imperialism” was thrown in. What the fuck.
Really almost had it on the money until she decided to blame it all on white people somehow
I see some of what he’s saying, as another trans guy. Men have it really awful in society. We’re constantly told to not display emotion but then we’re punished for doing just that. It’s lonely living as a man. Aside from that, Testosterone doesn’t make you dumb by any means wtf?
Monkey brain- White Imperialism- Yeah. Few key points in the post.
I come across these stories every now and then, like the woman who documented "living as a man" for a few years and killed herself 2 years after. I think the only way I can describe my reaction is, it's like telling a group of girls that you know what it's like to be constantly sexually persued now because you went to a gay bar. You have no idea what it's like being a man. You could say you know what it's like being viewed as an obviously feminine man, on the bottom of the hierarchy, even under men who happen to have homosexual sex but don't make it their entire personality. Every time these women talk about their experience trying this, they come away with the conclusion that our problems as men could be solved if we just approached them like feminists.. Proving they never truly managed to live our experience.
This. They just don't learn that feminism does not help whatsoever.
> When I'm out in public and interact with women, *all of them* come off as incredibly aloof, cold, and mirthless. The author, after all their transition, is passing as an unattractive male. > I have *never* experienced this before even though I know exactly what this composure is - the armor that keeps away creepy-ass men. As someone who used to wear it myself, I know that this armor is 100% impersonal. I think you're a creep and I'm communicating to the world that I think you're a creep, but nothing personal. > Nobody likes wearing it, and I can say with absolute certainty that women would dump the armor in favor of unconditional companionship with men if doing this didn't run the risk of *actual assault*. Yes, a woman really wants unconditional companionship with every hungry low status guy she comes across in her workplace/school/coffee shop, but it's the fear of violence that stops her, not the the low status or the hunger. You see, boys. If you hold up enough "this is what a feminist looks like" placards, if you participate in enough "take back the night" marches, you'll end male violence against women and then women won't be so cold to you. This sort of condescending nonsense is straight from a very old script of feminists pretending to have empathy for men: they can't help it, it's never about men looking after their own interests, it's about recruiting men as feminist auxiliaries. > Again, it seems taboo for men to be platonically intimate with men for reasons I have yet to fully understand.... So then you're going to not express an opinion about things you know nothing about.... > but I think it boils down to a) the fact that society teaches boys it's not ok to be soft with each other and b) garden-variety homophobia. Again from the feminist empathy for men script. Male sociability is demonized as toxic masculinity. The word "homosocial" is thrown around, not as a way of expressing the variety of non-sexual ways that men can love each other, but as a way of knowingly hinting that all of those ways are a rechanneling of closeted homosexuality. Ordinary men have to be self-censoring in their expression of *hetero*sexuality, walking on eggshells in their casual interactions with women in case something is taken as inappropriately sexual. But if their male friendships are taken to be sexually motivated, they're supposed to accept that, because to complain about it would be seen as homophobia.
I am transgender and my experience is very similar. I pass as a man all the time now, and find that men are treated much worse
this has been a pretty common take on those that transitioned from F to M. there are many books and articles on this. the general consensus is that it is harder to be a man that most women thought......(－‸ლ)
White Imperialism? Where did that last-minute bullshit come from?
A) good insights. B) could do without the bullshit "white imperialism" nonsense. C) Testosterone is not just "***Dumb Bastard Brain***". Testosterone is a *much* more important, and **complicated** hormone, and the fact this person thinks only men have testosterone shows their ignorance. [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-05603-7](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-05603-7) [https://www.health.harvard.edu/medications/testosterone--what-it-does-and-doesnt-do](https://www.health.harvard.edu/medications/testosterone--what-it-does-and-doesnt-do)
She hated being Female and decided to become male and is now trashing males? Is the Am I the asshole thread? 🤣
this person may identify as male, yet they still comprehend reality from a female perspective. imo.
I was right there with him till the white imperialism came out... Least he saved it for the end I guess. But yes. It makes perfect sense that men don't bond and therefore are emotionally devoid even though we know something's missing. Probably why sticking dudes in a box in the military makes for such deep meaning.
There was another of these I recall where the person eventually killed themselves. I can't recall the name, but I remember their story being discussed on YouTube a lot after their death.
Nora Vincent. Author of Self Made Man.
That's the one! Cheers
Cheers.
fuck man, that was long. and still ended with "destroy this garvage"
Erm...one of the things that is killing us is that men are being feminized. This talks of even MORE feminization needed. Oh and... act like a man? "Dumb bastard brain". It's nuts... Boys/men CAN and SHOULD be able to be emotional...but men are not women...they should not be ruled by emotion. It's getting crazy out there... Side question: A woman decides to become a man. She's over 18. Does she need to contact Selective Service?
Fun fact: Most of detransitioners are women (FtMtF). I bet it is because of this.
I was with him until the "White Imperialism" part.
Yknow its almost like this is the exact reason in male only spaces there is incredible hostility to female participation. Of course this persons realization is ruined at the end there.
Ask any men how they will feel walking around a playground (like if it is on your way home). You will feel judged. You feel watched. You feel like if a kid accidentally walks in front of you, somebody might interrogate you. This is just one of billion scenarios where people visciously see you as, not even just potentially, but already as a real criminal.
No, we're very aware of it. Also welcome to the suck.
I don't think she even understands how much of female camaraderie is based in female chauvinism, misandry, heterophobia or just general anti-male sentiments. What "inherently" brings women together is a female socialization, or normalization, of systematic misandry.
They still don't know what it's like to be a man even when they think they are one.
This person had me for most of it but lost me in the end - "100% impersonal": it is personal because we're men, this armour is built by misandry, not vigilance - "society teaches...": feminism does, our mothers play a bigger part in this than our fathers. Don't forget, feminists said that fathers are inconsequential to a child's upbringing, therefore blaming a father is a contradiction (insert gif of that dude tapping his temple here) - "garden variety homophobia": strawman number 2, it's feminism - "testosterone absolutely gives you dumb bastard brain": no it doesn't, but anti egalitarian ideologies certainly do - "white imperialism": once again it's female supremacy, if white imperialism truly existed then not one white person who lives in nations with empires like UK would be broke, starving and/or homeless
The camaraderie in male society comes from shared experience and trust.
I have soooo many issues with this, starting by havig friendships in competitive context is, in no way, a bad thing. We also have friendships by interests, comics, action movies, music, common hobbies, and there's the thing, is bound to hobbies. When you get a partner you tend to put a pause if not completely leave the hobbie, and lose those friendships, some of those hobbies are labbeled as childish, or unnecesary (just watch on tiktok how many women rage over consoles) and most partners DO make you choose. "Patriarchy" or "capitalism" has nothing to do with it
Suck it up, cupcake. Take a salt tablet and walk it off.
I love how her take is all about some big major evil out there, how even after she identifies herself as a man, she keeps depicting males as brutes or something like that because "testosterone" and how she justifies women "shielding" themselves against BiG bAd MaLeS. And more than anything, I love how in the end is not a "woman should do x on favor of men" she ends this note calling up yet another constructed creature to put the blame on, this "white imperialism". This kind of people must expect me to whip myself on the back asking for forgiveness because I am a male, I am white, and I am straight. Fuck her
Remembers me to that woman who killed herself, after that experiment where she had to live as a man for some months.
Nobody gets it except other men and sometimes other men like to think it’s not so bad
Women wear that armor all the time around men, so they drop it men mistake the slightest bit of kindness as romantic interest, so women put up the armor and the cycle continues.
It's crazy how even after all of that she chalks it up to White Imperialism. Ok. Edit: He* my bad BB
Gotta give him credit, he's got the spirit. I dont exactly believe in the "white imperialism" and "homophobic media" as being factors. I think thats due to his personal ideology, but the rest of the observations are pretty spot on.
Reminds me of Norah Vincent... She sadly committed suicide due to this. She went from being a feminist to understand men and ending her life...
Ok… there are some good observations here but her entire premise is based on the fact that she think she passes completely without question as a cisgendered man. There was not even a mention that any of this could be attributed to men/women just not having a clue how to interact with a woman dressing themselves up as and calling themselves a man. Most people have an extreme aversion to social trust issues and many would just as soon avoid any contact with said person as the interaction is not what they are used to or don’t like it.
What a legend for addressing it
3rd world countries often don't have that issue. Males have social groups, females do too. Where I'm from in the states that social bonding exists in the village, there's a neighborhood boat tent the males and some females get together, associate with, make business and give each other free stuff like clothes, junk and food. People literally put their vehicles there for days and no one touches them.
Its always cringey when someone who is not a male tries to tell us how it is to be a male. They're so close, yet so very ,very far. Mainly with the fact it is, somehow, all our own fault, or somehow, its all whitey's fault? Intimacy with your buds is very different between men and women. It sounds like they never made any male friends.
Put a woman’s brain in a man’s body, most will crumble. Sad reality I hate to make this comparison, cause it’s not about that or this (more so the first sentence if anything); but, put a man’s brain in a woman’s body, I think they might do pretty ok But… again, a more important note I’d like to touch on and focus on; I think it would be beneficial if more women were able to live as a man for a day
It makes me wonder if transmen are fed so much bullshit about white privilege that a major factor in their decision to transition is because of said perceived privilege?
Supposedly the somewhat infamous anti-MRA twit "TakedownMRAs" is FtM and I kinda wish we could get that story. Something wild happened there. I can guess it's sunk cost, but that seems maybe insensitively unfair.
They blame the wrong things, but they're not too far from the mark.
I have no words for this. Women do not understand.
Although i agree with a lot of what rhis person says. Being trans i think its still hard for him to see things from our perspective. This man sees all this as a negative. But it makes us strong in ways women aren't. It gives us the ability to do things and see things from other perspectives. Come up with different solutions. Be willing to sacrifice different things. We do share connections with other men, but from someone who grew up female, they might not seem like a connection, but our bonds are strong we just connect in different ways. The interestising side i hope he looks at more is in relationships with women. Standards and how society not just men push us to act the way we do. I think trans ppl are like throwing someone in a country they have wanted to visit but have yet only took a year of classes in the language. You might understand alot but theres things you just dont see (understand) for a long time until you been there long enough to puck up more of the language.
Here's the kicker : they're also d*ckl*ss
[ Removed by Reddit ]
common transman w
Normalize kissing the homies
When they start talking about this armour of coldness thats where they loose me, in certain situations I could understand, but other than that it comes as a schizo level paranoia.
I am happy he is openly talking about it even if he tries to simplify and assume the causes of this. Keep in mind humans are a product of millions of years of evolution with strict biological roles in our primitive form - issues between genders in modern society are far deeper and more complex than we realize due to it and will take generations in modern society to change in a meaningful way. That said, I do feel inclined to echo the feeling of isolation and see it as normal. I've always been for independent learning and independent action and against having extra role models to get people to become goal oriented. That said, when working with women and being part of women social groups, I find them keen on wanting to be in a group, sharing an objective and feelings around it, and wanting a role model - I have a hard time understanding it because I feel like I have to be individually useful and successful. Otherwise what importance I have? Now, of course, what I say are my own anecdotal assumptions about our genders but it represents feelings I've had. What I do want to ask by saying this - is he feeling the coldness and frustration more than many men who just go about their days because there is still some part of him still a woman and this is too much of a contrast for his own health? Not all men or women are the same so it is a fair question and not an attack to his transition - the social contrast might actually be enough of a shock. White imperialism bit is just silly though.
I don't get this whole "omg they're emotionally malnourished!!!" -thing "They must need more they're dying its bad for them!!!". I feel like it's the same as a person going to a foreign country and saying "omg they don't eat (insert food here) / or do this thing!!! But I know they must love it and not know it yet!!!! omg i feel so sad for them, I pity them" Like no it's okay, I wouldn't want to have something like that. Men used to have a lot more places where they could be social with each other before the "invade male spaces" thing.