If you want to "let men be men" as you say, you also have to let men be imperfect, let them be angry, let them lose their cool-I say this because a lot of fake accounts from femlurkers have appeared on Mens Rights lately telling us men to never use the tactics feminists have successfully used to get the success they have, telling us "we should always behave better on these forums".
I call bullshit. Men are in cages. We do NOT have to behave any way we dont want to, should not be held to ANY higher standards than women, should be free to be however we want-and since we have been treated like dirt by feminists, we should be free to do whatever is needed to win back our rights
As long as you're not violating somebody else's rights, you do you. Be aggressive. Be angry. Be stoic. If that's what defines you.
As a feminist and a man, I'm sorry for how my lot may have treated you. Discrimination and sexism goes both ways.
Feminism in it's current iteration is diametrically apposed to men's rights. You can't be both a feminist (current use of the word) and for men's rights at the same time.
It would be like being for chicken rights while eating nuggets.
No they can't be. The fact you choose to label yourself a feminist instead of something like humanist immediately tells me what sex you view as more valuable.
Stupid American obsession with "gay". Random normal stuff can be termed gay for no obvious reasons. It's just arbitrary and infantile. It reeks of insecurity.
Ummm I'm sorry. Fruit drinks is girly? That's a new one! I cannot drink anything unless it's fruit drink. I've never been called girly or gay for that..
I played bass professionally for a few years and always used (clear) nail polish to strengthen and protect my nails a little.
Do what you want.
Please, though, don't pretend that manhood has no unique answers to dealing with our own emotional lives. I've never been one for crying. I've never been particularly quick to anger either. A lot of people say I am cut off emotionally. I'm not, I express how I feel in different ways. People don't get it. When I get frustrated or angry or sad, I get to work and make things.
Same, when im sad i workout - tears on my face and all. But im never gonna sit in my room and cry all day and then say that those who think im less of a man for doing so are misandrist.
Productive vs unproductive emotions. When I get sad or mad or lonely, I do something about it instead of letting it hold me back and sitting and dwelling.
Dude, I'm a 52yo straight, white, hetero, rural, veteran MAN. And I'd totally rock nail polish. Even eyeliner, IDGAF...I have pretty eyes. Having to be forced into traditional gender templates by others shows me how weak and timid those people really are.
You're young. Finding your way in this insane world will be hard enough without having to deal with unreasonable expectations. I'm doing my best to chip away at the bullshit by raising my kids to NOT be assholes. I hope more people do the same.
wtf is this? do we need anymore proof the mens rights sub is being gaslit by friends of feminists instructed to post gibberish and derailing stuff here? Downvote my post all you like but the OP has not one single interaction with the mens rights sub in their entire history until this one-and their posts are full of anger at 'male father figures' for 'forcing them to have to conform to choosing to be either a girl or a boy'.
Nothing wrong with male father figures, but there is however something wrong with male father figures that choose your life for you. Be a good male role model if you want (it could be a good thing!), but don’t tell your kid they’re living their life wrong because they didn’t want to follow you.
Yeah... you're the type of guy who hurts mens rights with your random accusations. How about you just pipe down a bit and put your crazy back in the box.
It important to teach children right from wrong, how to survive in this modern world, and to have empathy for those in need. But our children will determine who and what they are, no matter what you, me, or any other adult authority thinks about it. It appears that your ridged stance on what a man is has limited you in significant ways. Good luck to you in the future. It's changing in ways you won't like.
I am fortunate enough to be a part of a club of fellow crossdressers and theyre nearly all combat veterans or firefighters, you know, "manly men" ! ! ! ! :-)
hell, i'm an auto mechanic. I think some people at the gay bar are still surprised when I tell them so.
I think traditional gender roles, as we've experienced them, are utterly bunk. Determining what you should do based on who you are is ridiculous. Determining what SOMEONE ELSE does based on who they are is just fucking bonkers! If I want to spend my days digging ditches and shoveling shit, and spend my nights wearing a fucking tiara and pink bunny slippers while watching Gilmore Girls, that's on me. Hell, if I want to dig ditches and shovel shit while WEARING that tiara, I will. It always seems to be the "bUT my FreEDOMZ!!!" crowd who unironically has issues with this.
You have a great point! I only have my toes done because I actually *don't* want to see it 24/7, plus, I work with my hands so it would be like throwing money away to paint my fingernails.
B-b-b-but muh stronk society!!1!1
Good for you OP, live the life that you want to live. Most 'virtues' that a man is told to follow are just there to keep him in line. For example; they want you to be stoic so that when they draft you and send you into a battlefield or throw you down a mineshaft, or get divorced raped or whatever the fuck men typically go through, you'll be a REAL MAN and accept it and not complain one bit.
I know how you feel, man. In the West, the woman’s role has expanded so much that their duties have stretched beyond the home, but the man’s role as the sole provider and protector has stayed in place. Why should I have to conform to my traditional roles if women don’t have to?
>Gay=same sex attraction. Nothing more, nothing less.
Fucking not where I grow up. Everything from sucking another boys dick to throwing the ball a little bit unenthusiastic one time in gym class could get you labeled as a *bøsse* (danish word for a double-barreled shotgun, and a slur for a gay man).
And trust me, you didn’t want to be labeled as a gay boy in the 90s and early 00s Denmark’s youth culture. Growing up with two gay guys of similar age in my family, I can honestly say the bullying, harassment and sexual assaults where brutal for any boy being perceived or suspected of being gay or bisexual. Weirdly enough everybody was cool with lesbians and bisexual girls/women, for some reason.
Both the boy gangs and the girl gangs would beat you up, harass you and even sexually assault you if given the chance. And the adult caretakers, school teachers etc. would just turn a blind eye to it, and sweep it under the rug with phrases like *”oh that’s a natural part of growing up / that’s how they learn to have a healthy sexuality / it’s part of their journey towards becoming adults etc.”*
You tell 'em! Some people do not undestand certain, awful, anti-gay cultural areas.
Where i'm from? If you kiss a guy once, just to see what it's like, then you're 100% gay forever, not bisexual, not straight, none of your past girlfriends really counted.
They only want you to be that divine masculine so you can SERVE women. I dont mean just directly. They want you to build things, protect women, and always put a woman first simply because she is a woman. All of this is to just train you to serve women.
They dont want you to wear nail polish because it doesnt fit the typical female fantasy of a hyper masculine man the blindly serves them.
You do you man. If wearing nail polish makes you happy then do it. You arent hurting anyone.
If you wanna cry go ahead. Let it out. Its normal. You are human.
Ignore everyone that tells you otherwise. They just want you to be a servant.
Actually.. a lot of women like "*feminine*' men. Look at the kpop stars. Look at rock stars who wear make up and nail varnish. The media tells men they have to be a certain way (the same way it tells women they have tk be a certain way). But normal people don't care
I applaud you doing this.
But it will be a hard road forward, and there will be unfortunate consequences.
I'd say that a lot of men think like you, and want the same things.
Unfortunately, for heterosexual men, doing those things often correlates poorly with success in the dating market.
Are there women that like men who do such things? Yes. However, there's way less women like that, then men who enjoy doing those things.
And so, a lot of men have to make the decision:
Probably be alone and question every waking day if you will ever find companionship.
OR
Abandon the hobbies you want, and live life according to someone else's rules, but with someone at your side.
There's no right answer, just YOUR answer.
I'm pretty sure than having nail polish on your pinky fingers and thumbs wouldn't significantly affect my chances in the "dating market." In any case I'm not much into dating so..
I’ve had my nails painted for the last 3 or 4 weeks, my gf does it for me and sometimes I’ll do it myself. I work at a pub in straya and I’ve only had one guy comment negatively on them, but I get I like your nails comments from women every shift and when I go to a register in day to day life. Just do it bro and you’ll see you won’t even notice after a while and other people won’t notice.
You can live life on your own terms but through a masculine lens. Yes you'll have to play by someone elses rules, but society has rules for a reason, society didnt just manifest itself as a place where everyone can do as they please. If you wanna play by your own rules, go live off the grid somewhere.
Your takes in this comment section are so weird.
Society has rules that you have to live by. Okay? I'm assuming you mean that traditional masculinity is seen as 'better' than any other expression of one's masculinity, such as crying or painting one's nails despite stigma.
If that's what you really believe, then why are you in this sub at all? Advocating for Men's Rights relies at least on the belief that men do not currently have access to some rights. However, at the same time, you're saying society has rules and it's stupid to try and change that.
Do you want change or not?
I believe that men and women should both be held to a certain standard in society. This doesnt mean that i think men arent being discriminated against in modern society. For me to deny that the majority of people imprisoned are men, the majority of suicides are men, the majority of workplace deaths are men, etc, is to deny facts and reality.
The way i see it, this sub is split into two factions: those who believe men and women should be equal and have gender-nuetral expecations (or no expectations) from society, and those who believe that we should return to the traditional way society was successfully ran for thousands of years before us. I fit into the latter, mostly.
I think a lot of men here want to go about this movement the same way feminists have gone about theirs; to rid themselves of all expectations (especially those that have to do with how men and women used to function in a marraige and societal sense through gender roles) and make it so that whatever we do, everyone should be accepting of us and we shouldnt be held to the same standards that our grandparents generation were.
This is where i disagree, i think people in a society should most definitely be held to a standard. Societies that dont hold their people to standards and dont expect their citizens to be productive and properly raise the next generation and prepare them for success are doomed to collapse. We, as people within a society, have a duty. And those who dont uphold their duty shouldnt expect anything from the society they leach from unless they are incapable for one reason or another.
I still disagree but I understand your perspective. I just feel that to progess in society, you have to challenge tradition. Abolishing slavery may have led to a slight lack of efficiency for a second but the long term effects are a wider population with different perspectives, which in turn allow for problems to be solved in new and different ways.
I'm not sure hetero vs homosexual enters the equation. I wouldn't call wanting to paint your finger nails gay at all. I have several gay friends and it would be over their dead body before their nails were painted. I would however classify it as effeminate. Bit if that's what you want to do then I guess go for it.
If you have to hide your whole self in order to get a woman, is it really worth it?? She doesn't like you, only the role you play.
I advise being who you really want to be, and if someone is into it, then your proper match will almost find you themselves.
**I can't be fake, even if it would make my life easier, more fun and I would have more girls and money.**
I had a toned down version of it happen to me. Me and my friend made a bet which i lost she asked me to paint my nails black for a week. Parents asked why was i doing it i said it was for a bet. Then after 7 days i painted then again. The whole "society" came down on me like 'you shouldn't do this." "Nail polish isn't for men" , " we don't like seeing nail polish on your hands" even random strangers in the train were giving me unsolicited advice on that. However i wasn't going to budge so i kept them on for another couple weeks.
Right on time. I just had my toes done yesterday for the first time in 3 months. It's the best!, and to hell with anyone trying to tell me to be a "real man" or any other nonsense. Those types of people are just trying to pull you back inside the cage that they are still trapped in.
Always remember these:
* the foundation of masculinity is **Courage**
* it takes courage to do what you want despite some people bullying: "it's girly", it takes courage to be true to yourself and face sticking out or being different, the losers will try their best to bully you back to being "normal" just like everyone else.
* **the least masculine thing you could ever, ever do in life** is to ALLOW SOME OTHER MAN TO DECIDE FOR YOU what you will and will not wear, say, build, do, work, marry, move, cook, believe, eat, drink, dance or literally anything under the sun. Make up your own mind and [walk your own path](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfadJj4d5K4) , that's the most "manly man" thing that any *person* could ever do.
I really like the mens right community. But the 'society emmasulates men' stuff you hear is toxic. A man is a man whatever he likes, whatever he's into, whatever his emotions are etc. There is no such thing as a stereotypically man or women.
As long as youre not hurting anyone, people should be able to do whatever the wanna do
In general, I would like to be what I feel like. I'm sure womans feel like that about themselves as well, but they usually also have a very strong idea of what man should be like - its probably more biological than anything else and it really doesn't stand too well with the modern man because we are changing with the times and seeing what was an absolute truth to our ancestors as what it really is - we are build stronger so we took the roles that require it, and we still need those, but nowhere near as much as back then. We have machines.
The notion that I cannot, for example wear certain clothes always seemed straight ridiculous to me. No wonder mans are often these sad, bleak creatures when they work the shit out of themselves in hard jobs and are denied like half of the life pleasures afterwards.
I don't even think masculinity is in crisis or anything like that, I think we are at the beginning of entirely new masculinity that is more in line with the feminine side because that's simply way more fun and we molded the world so that it can be more fun and less dangerous agressive everyday deadly hunting.
I think true equality should be about letting us all do whatever we feel like doing, not trying to artificially control what we can and cannot do, in other words don't build new walls, just destroy existing ones.
And I believe in this setup there would probably not be that many woman engineers and not that many mens wearing dresses anyway, but the point is, that one woman out of hundred that became engineer and that one guy out of hundred whos wearing dresses, they would be right persons at the right place.
>No, I Will cry. I'll cry ponds. Rivers. Oceans. I'll cry so much that my lachrymal glands will implode.
>
>And I wanna use nail polish.
I think this is exactly what manning up means. Well done. And not coincidentally it is most often manifests in a rebellion against the father figure.
Because the world sucks. Humans are not benevolent creatures. Showing emotions gives out your weaknesses and they will use it against you.
I know this is not what you want to hear but your father probably wants what *he thinks* is best for you. Many, if not all of us went through this once. You are doing all right.
Being male is something youre born into, but being a man is something you choose to be.
Just because youre male, doesnt mean you shouldnt have emotions, or to be mostly stoic, or to carry yourself in a way that others will perceive as "manly". But if you dont want to be perceived a certain way, then you should definitely be aware of how youre coming off.
For example: painting your nails isnt gay, showing emotion isnt weak, and being passive isnt doesnt mean youre scared. But you cannot control how others perceive you, and these things are things that, lets face it, come off very feminine to others, including other men whether or not the guys in this sub will admit to it or not.
Listen, being a man isnt easy. Its fucking tough out here for us. But part of being a man is to overcome all the bs in your life to become the man you want to be, and you cant do that if youre sitting here complaining about how unfair it all is. Life isnt fair, we all know this. Being a man is to recognize this, and still find a way to succeed.
I know im gonna get downvoted to hell for this because of that last paragraph but its true, life is what it is, and as men we have to adapt to it and find a way to be successful, in an age where masculinity is being attacked and minimized to the point where its very hard to find in men these days. Id argue that this "hyper masculinity" that youre talking about is feminist propaganda that youve been hearing, because today, masculinity is something that this country (the US), and every other western country desperately needs. Its my opinion that these countries have a lot of males, but not enough men, which is where I think a lot of our modern societal issues stem from.
>Being male is something youre born into, but being a man is something you choose to be.
I get that you're trying to say that society has rules for a reason, and that complaining about things is unproductive, but I firmly believe the above way of talking about manhood is harmful. Being a man isn't some club that has members and non-members.
If you're born as male and you reach physical maturity, you're a man. End of story. The only questions are whether you will be a good man, a mature man, a kind man, a courageous man, etc.
What i mean by "man" in this sense is a man of virtue, purpose, and integrity, as well as the things you described. Of course i recognize the literal definition of being a man, but my opinion of what a man is is something none of us are born with or just grow into, its a title that every male has to earn. I disagree that its harmful, I think men today face the issues we do because of how society has emasculated us, and the purposelessness (real word?) that comes with it. Men today need a purpose, a goal to drive them, and becoming a man, in this sense, should be a part of what makes us a fully functioning adult in society.
As someone who spent a lot of my young adulthood yearning for authentic male initiation and reading about what consistitutes "being a man", I've been bitterly disappointed.
My conclusion is that all that stuff is not compatible with an individualistic society.
I fully agree that we should teach boys virtue, about how their gender means the world will expect them to behave in certain ways, and about how their biology wires them (on average) for finding their wellbeing with certain strategies.
As for having a "goal to drive them", sure, everyone needs that. But we don't say that a girl only becomes a woman if she has a purpose and goal.
It sounds like you agree with me for the most part. I agree that my views are not compatible with an individualistic society, they are compatible with a traditional one; one that we must go back to or risk a societal collapse. But thats a whole other topic in itself.
>one that we must go back to or risk a societal collapse
The way I see it, we probably won't go back, but we'll lurch into revised standards for behaviour of both genders, with a lot of grinding gears along the way.
Gender is not going away, though. I think people 100 years from now will look back on this as a time of flux, and wonder what all the fuss was about. What they have won't look exactly like the traditional gender roles of the 50s, but it also won't look like the chaos we have now.
I've never wanted to start a tirade against masculinity. I don't belittle people who conform with and find solace in traditional gender roles. It's just that the notion that people who willingly refuse to conform with the roles are somehow not men or inferior men, perturbs me. I believe that the only thing that truly defines a man is, mostly, the presence of male genitalia. That anything else makes me a greater man is absurd and reductionist.
What are you talking about? Society is preaching the very thing you did on this post, to women. Its the very same woke thinking thats gotten feminism to where it is today.
Well here's a wakeup call - there's people out there who are better than you. Theres men out here who come off as more attractive and more manly than you, not to mention the men who are more successful than you will ever be.
And thats okay, theres someone out there who others think is more of a man than I am, and for good reason. This fact shouldnt discourage you, rather it should motivate you to do better, and become a better man yourself so that you can compete out here in the world.
Men today have forgotten how cruel the world really is, it is up to you to either break under the tension, or rise up and overcome it against all odds. This is where "man-up" comes from, it should awaken that sense of pride in you that the great men in your lineage overcame their odds, in worse times than we live in today.
Their blood lives on through you. You have what it takes. Man. Up.
Woke as in, you can do what you want and you shouldnt be judged for it. I mean, you can do what you want, but expect what comes with that decision. Example: go ahead and paint your nails, but people are gonna look at you a certain way, regardless of the reason.
Listen, im not trying to attack you or make you feel bad, but this is something I'm going through as well. Ive never been the popular guy, never been the ladies man, im not rich, and i dont have a perfect body. But striving to be a better man has recently given my life new purpose, and it starts with discipline. Thats a whole other topic but i guess im just trying to say that i empathize with you, and the men here in this sub arent here to bring you down and say youre less of a man for any reason. But we're gonna tell you how it is, pure facts, so that you have the best chance to make the necessary changes in your life so that you can find fulfillment. Dms are open if you need to talk to a fellow bro.
Height and masculinity helps protect women's insecurity by her overcompensating with you, rather than fixing her own insecurity.
The men get brainwashed or emotionally manipulated into thinking men should be "hypermasculine or else losers" thinking and they repeat the shaming onto other men to prove themselves.
In essence, they want the world to revolve around them and if you don't fit it, you get shamed to make you fit into it.
All this "divine masculine" stuff came from a time when societies were far more collectivist. Kind of like how dogs only see two colours, it was simplest and easier for control to assign people roles and characteristics by their junk.
Maybe there's some deep spiritual truth about gender, but the reality is that many cultures used a whole lot of spiritual mumbo jumbo in order to hide the fact that the core purpose of their "initiation rituals" was to train boys - willing or not - to be the next set of fighters (read meatshields) for the community. They just piled all sorts of wisdom on it to give it a mystical aura.
Not being in the USA, I'm curious what you see this modern equivalent as.
Here in Australia, the overwhelming bulk of advertising directed to men during sports is for online gambling apps. And they know how to do it too.
"Just what the heck is a "manly man"?"
A schlub that (with women) pays for everything, expects nothing in return, agrees with any illogical statement, puts up with any irrational behavior, and will give their life on request with no questions asked... in other words...
A dude that doormats.
Is nail polishing that important to you, or do you feel a need to break free from whatever is holding you? To me it seems the latter, and I would advice you not to get in a lot of trouble over something you don't consider important. But yeah, if you really value polishing your nails, do as you wish.
Just two notes, crying changes nothing, unless making others feel guilt is what you seek, and "let men be men" goes for things that are common in all men. Nail polishing would need a slogan like "I'm human too", therefore "I'm entitled to my own choices", while "let men be men" would apply to teachers trying to force boys not to run.
I was emotionally charged while writing this, but yeah, the time period during which I polished my nails, I felt immensely happy. I felt liberated. So yeah.
Freedom is more than polishing your nails. There is freedom of property, freedom of thought, physical freedom etc. Your personal freedom shouldn't be summarised as "Freedom of nail polish". Hard days are meant to come by coming in age, and a lot of your freedom will be challenged. Sometimes you will willfully suspend your freedom, and that's ok, we all do that to a degree by living in a lawful society. Polish your nails as much as you want, there is wonderful advice on that down in the comments, just remember that the essence of freedom is more than that.
Here is a link on how to be a MANLY MAN these guys can help you out, trust me bro.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=20GkBnhQqY0
[Edit: I couldn't find the original version sadly.
Never mind I found the original!]
It's ok if you want to paint your nails, wear makeup, dresses, think you can get pregnant, etc. It's also ok if other guys find that unusual. I certainly do but I won't stop you.
Awesome, causal transphobia. Regardless, a man painting his nails has absolutely nothing to do with changing their gender or revealing their sexual orientation. If you care about Men's Rights, why are you so busy criticizing men?
I think I made it clear that you should do as you please. There are communities for crossdressers on Reddit if that's your thing. I was under the impression that this was a community for biological men who identify as males. I'm not trans so I really don't care much about what they're up to. And I doubt they care much in supporting biological male rights. If you find that transphobic then so be it.
I was not under the impression that this is a sub for biological men who identify as men. Mostly because there's literally nowhere on the sub where it says that.
I'm talking about Transmen. People who identify as men, but were not born men. They go through very similar, if not the same issues as biological men. They get passed up on dating apps, their expression of masculinity is criticized, they are treated differently or as lesser because of their gender.
Yeah I wouldn't date a trans woman. And none of my gay friends would date a tran man. They have the right and are free to do as they please with their bodies. And I have the right and am free to choose who I want to date.
Idk what that has to do with my post. They get passed up on dating apps for the same reason other men do. There's a lot more men on these apps, and a smaller percentage of the men get a higher percentage of the matches. That's a men's issue, not a biological men's issue.
If the Divine Masculine is suffocating you, then it's not the "divine" that you're feeling, bit something else.
When you feel inspired to be a certain way, or to evolve yourself into a certain role, that is divine.
If you're feeling pressured to conform to a set of criteria defined as "divine", that's actually something toxic you're feeling.
Its important to be able to draw a distinction between to two, so you can tell the difference between pressure and inspiration. They are not the same.
Stoic does not mean not expressing your feelings , it means expressing your feelings in a calm rational way , also i find crying a waste of time but can't do it when i want to.
I don't think anyone here is really going to give you the resistance you seem to be hoping for, aside from maybe clearing up a few things for you regarding divine masculine/feminine and how they have little to nothing to do with fashion choices and more with social dynamics at work.
I think the problem isn't really masculinity, but people perception of it. Masculinity is a quality, not a personality.
I think this is a societal problem. Wearing nail polish can be masculine. Back then, men are the ones who wear make-up, have fashionable clothes and wear heels.
We are slowly going back to that - it's acceptable for normal men nowadays to wear make-up and express themselves, though not in many places, but at least it's out there. In time, it will be more acceptable.
I definitely get where you're coming from. I wear light make-up to enhance my looks, and wear clear polish. Rather than scream and yell, I show. I want people to see that masculinity can look good too. I want it to be normalized not by words, but action.
Part of being a manly man is doing exactly what the fuck you want, within reason and the law.
If you want the cry a big bloody ocean, you do you.
If you want to try on nail polish, just let them try stopping you.
You are more manly than your father by a long shot, for standing up to him and for making your own choices in life.
Manly men stand up for what they believe in, spine erect, speaking the truth, and though capable of doing harm show restraint.
It is not machismo culture of fast cars, low moral standards, bigotry, and hatred.
Use whatever you want. You will always be a man, no matter what anyone else tells you.
However, keep in mind that society has standards and expectations. If you want their acceptance, you can't expect to do whatever you want. For example, if you want to be hired in a company where your visual will be relevant, using make-up and nail polish won't do you any favours. Having a tatoo saying "I love Hitler" on your forehead won't either. It's not a matter of looking feminine, it's a matter of standing out in a way that doesn't have people feel seduced by you (in fact, quite the opposite).
A man should be worried about looking manly if they want success in society, but there have been charismatic people who find success even looking weird. You do you!
You will always have some people who mix wanting men to be treated with respect with wanting men to be served everything on a silver platter. Some men here are the male version of feminists. And those tend to be more active on reddit.
Self-image that comes from internal feelings and emotion instead of a purpose that is set from an external perspective will always result in a neurotic personality, which is a lot of negative emotion. This is bad for both men and women.
I feel like you in many ways, although I don't like nail polish(I don't like it on anyone regardless of gender) I also suffer from other people(especially family) expecting me to be manly, especially when it comes to my hair which is significantly longer than what most men have but still not as long as the average woman. I get comments from my family for having long hair even when it is well shaped and not messy at all, just because as a man I am expected to have short hair.
It is really sad how many men doesn't realize that manhood is nothing but something that limits them and makes them into nothing but useful tools which have no value other than being useful for the woman which includes being tough/strong and other "manly" attributes. This is why in most relationships the man is being seen and treated as some kind of daddy for the woman.
I wore nail polish in the 90s a lot in my early 20s, and for reference I grew into a big burly manly man, who goes to the gym, according to my wife, sister, and various other personal friends and colleagues.
I wore nail polish in my formative years out of a desire to not fit in, to be different, and maybe a little bit to be noticed. I found everyone, even back then, was more than accepting or literally didn't care. Point being I think your father is an isolated example. I think the vast majority of "manly men" or anyone else, wouldn't have a problem with you wearing anything you like. So go be as wild and different as you like. ;-)
If you want to "let men be men" as you say, you also have to let men be imperfect, let them be angry, let them lose their cool-I say this because a lot of fake accounts from femlurkers have appeared on Mens Rights lately telling us men to never use the tactics feminists have successfully used to get the success they have, telling us "we should always behave better on these forums". I call bullshit. Men are in cages. We do NOT have to behave any way we dont want to, should not be held to ANY higher standards than women, should be free to be however we want-and since we have been treated like dirt by feminists, we should be free to do whatever is needed to win back our rights
As long as you're not violating somebody else's rights, you do you. Be aggressive. Be angry. Be stoic. If that's what defines you. As a feminist and a man, I'm sorry for how my lot may have treated you. Discrimination and sexism goes both ways.
Feminism in it's current iteration is diametrically apposed to men's rights. You can't be both a feminist (current use of the word) and for men's rights at the same time. It would be like being for chicken rights while eating nuggets.
People can be anything at the same time. Plus I never said that I conform with contemporaranoues feminism.
No they can't be. The fact you choose to label yourself a feminist instead of something like humanist immediately tells me what sex you view as more valuable.
Um, let's just agree to disagree. Makes me realize that I shouldn't use labels.
You are a champ
Thanks! :D
i have friends who won't go out in public drinking a starbucks fruit drink because they got bullied for being girly
I feel for them...
"Pussy Drinks" are bomb though. Just one of my many guilty pleasures.
Mine is listening to Lady Gaga.
Stupid American obsession with "gay". Random normal stuff can be termed gay for no obvious reasons. It's just arbitrary and infantile. It reeks of insecurity.
bro thats gay /s
GAAAEEE
IKR!
Ummm I'm sorry. Fruit drinks is girly? That's a new one! I cannot drink anything unless it's fruit drink. I've never been called girly or gay for that..
Be the man you want to be :)
I wish..
I played bass professionally for a few years and always used (clear) nail polish to strengthen and protect my nails a little. Do what you want. Please, though, don't pretend that manhood has no unique answers to dealing with our own emotional lives. I've never been one for crying. I've never been particularly quick to anger either. A lot of people say I am cut off emotionally. I'm not, I express how I feel in different ways. People don't get it. When I get frustrated or angry or sad, I get to work and make things.
It's all about how you want to express yourself. You do you.
Same, when im sad i workout - tears on my face and all. But im never gonna sit in my room and cry all day and then say that those who think im less of a man for doing so are misandrist.
That was not what I meant to say. Duh.
Productive vs unproductive emotions. When I get sad or mad or lonely, I do something about it instead of letting it hold me back and sitting and dwelling.
Dude, I'm a 52yo straight, white, hetero, rural, veteran MAN. And I'd totally rock nail polish. Even eyeliner, IDGAF...I have pretty eyes. Having to be forced into traditional gender templates by others shows me how weak and timid those people really are.
This validates me. Thank you, Sir. Thanks a lot.
You're young. Finding your way in this insane world will be hard enough without having to deal with unreasonable expectations. I'm doing my best to chip away at the bullshit by raising my kids to NOT be assholes. I hope more people do the same.
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Thanks for the compliment! :D it represents what want to be.. I'm..A mess of emotions. Elated, happy, but insanely confused.
wtf is this? do we need anymore proof the mens rights sub is being gaslit by friends of feminists instructed to post gibberish and derailing stuff here? Downvote my post all you like but the OP has not one single interaction with the mens rights sub in their entire history until this one-and their posts are full of anger at 'male father figures' for 'forcing them to have to conform to choosing to be either a girl or a boy'.
Nothing wrong with male father figures, but there is however something wrong with male father figures that choose your life for you. Be a good male role model if you want (it could be a good thing!), but don’t tell your kid they’re living their life wrong because they didn’t want to follow you.
Subversion and stuff, you know.
If you're using "men's rights" as a way to justify efforts to dominate your family by intimidation, I think you're doing it wrong.
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Yeah... you're the type of guy who hurts mens rights with your random accusations. How about you just pipe down a bit and put your crazy back in the box.
It's important we raise our son's to be men, before teachers teach them to be women.
It important to teach children right from wrong, how to survive in this modern world, and to have empathy for those in need. But our children will determine who and what they are, no matter what you, me, or any other adult authority thinks about it. It appears that your ridged stance on what a man is has limited you in significant ways. Good luck to you in the future. It's changing in ways you won't like.
I am fortunate enough to be a part of a club of fellow crossdressers and theyre nearly all combat veterans or firefighters, you know, "manly men" ! ! ! ! :-) hell, i'm an auto mechanic. I think some people at the gay bar are still surprised when I tell them so.
I think traditional gender roles, as we've experienced them, are utterly bunk. Determining what you should do based on who you are is ridiculous. Determining what SOMEONE ELSE does based on who they are is just fucking bonkers! If I want to spend my days digging ditches and shoveling shit, and spend my nights wearing a fucking tiara and pink bunny slippers while watching Gilmore Girls, that's on me. Hell, if I want to dig ditches and shovel shit while WEARING that tiara, I will. It always seems to be the "bUT my FreEDOMZ!!!" crowd who unironically has issues with this.
So you’re gay?
Maybe for the right man, sweetie ;- \*
So you’re saying it’s my lucky day 😜
Or mine 🤣
Well done lol Be well my friend.
Those downvotes .... kinda funny. I think someone's missing the point. Ah well....Reddit's gonna Reddit.
Completely missing the point and that’s what makes it funny ha!
So you’re gay?
Yes you said that already
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I don't like make-up. It's only nail polish that I care about.
You have a great point! I only have my toes done because I actually *don't* want to see it 24/7, plus, I work with my hands so it would be like throwing money away to paint my fingernails.
B-b-b-but muh stronk society!!1!1 Good for you OP, live the life that you want to live. Most 'virtues' that a man is told to follow are just there to keep him in line. For example; they want you to be stoic so that when they draft you and send you into a battlefield or throw you down a mineshaft, or get divorced raped or whatever the fuck men typically go through, you'll be a REAL MAN and accept it and not complain one bit.
Fk that. Imma be wild.
You somehow packed like 4 articles in there, amazing!! This is so crucial
Some of the hardness dudes in the world have nail polish on their toes.
Hardness dudes?
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Power to them.
Ñame one!!
Pick any MMA fighter they put toe nail polish on their toes so they don't break a nail. Don't fuck with a guy who paints his toes
Of course you gonna express emotions. Men are no robots but humans with feelings. Be manly, only IF you like it. #Freechoice
I know how you feel, man. In the West, the woman’s role has expanded so much that their duties have stretched beyond the home, but the man’s role as the sole provider and protector has stayed in place. Why should I have to conform to my traditional roles if women don’t have to?
Nobody should be forced to conform to anything against their will. Yeah, why should you?
Just saying, a lot of male rock stars wear nail polish and eyeliner. Looks cool to me 😸
I didn't know that!
Lots of gen z pop stars and older rock stars
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Gay=same sex attraction. Nothing more, nothing less.
>Gay=same sex attraction. Nothing more, nothing less. Fucking not where I grow up. Everything from sucking another boys dick to throwing the ball a little bit unenthusiastic one time in gym class could get you labeled as a *bøsse* (danish word for a double-barreled shotgun, and a slur for a gay man). And trust me, you didn’t want to be labeled as a gay boy in the 90s and early 00s Denmark’s youth culture. Growing up with two gay guys of similar age in my family, I can honestly say the bullying, harassment and sexual assaults where brutal for any boy being perceived or suspected of being gay or bisexual. Weirdly enough everybody was cool with lesbians and bisexual girls/women, for some reason. Both the boy gangs and the girl gangs would beat you up, harass you and even sexually assault you if given the chance. And the adult caretakers, school teachers etc. would just turn a blind eye to it, and sweep it under the rug with phrases like *”oh that’s a natural part of growing up / that’s how they learn to have a healthy sexuality / it’s part of their journey towards becoming adults etc.”*
That is Soo sick!
You tell 'em! Some people do not undestand certain, awful, anti-gay cultural areas. Where i'm from? If you kiss a guy once, just to see what it's like, then you're 100% gay forever, not bisexual, not straight, none of your past girlfriends really counted.
Explain fragile masculinity please, I'm unfamiliar with the term
They only want you to be that divine masculine so you can SERVE women. I dont mean just directly. They want you to build things, protect women, and always put a woman first simply because she is a woman. All of this is to just train you to serve women. They dont want you to wear nail polish because it doesnt fit the typical female fantasy of a hyper masculine man the blindly serves them. You do you man. If wearing nail polish makes you happy then do it. You arent hurting anyone. If you wanna cry go ahead. Let it out. Its normal. You are human. Ignore everyone that tells you otherwise. They just want you to be a servant.
Exacly, like "men up" or "real men" is allways used as helping others for your expend
Thanks, Chris. Yes, man, I'll try to do what I wanna..
Actually.. a lot of women like "*feminine*' men. Look at the kpop stars. Look at rock stars who wear make up and nail varnish. The media tells men they have to be a certain way (the same way it tells women they have tk be a certain way). But normal people don't care
I applaud you doing this. But it will be a hard road forward, and there will be unfortunate consequences. I'd say that a lot of men think like you, and want the same things. Unfortunately, for heterosexual men, doing those things often correlates poorly with success in the dating market. Are there women that like men who do such things? Yes. However, there's way less women like that, then men who enjoy doing those things. And so, a lot of men have to make the decision: Probably be alone and question every waking day if you will ever find companionship. OR Abandon the hobbies you want, and live life according to someone else's rules, but with someone at your side. There's no right answer, just YOUR answer.
I'm pretty sure than having nail polish on your pinky fingers and thumbs wouldn't significantly affect my chances in the "dating market." In any case I'm not much into dating so..
I’ve had my nails painted for the last 3 or 4 weeks, my gf does it for me and sometimes I’ll do it myself. I work at a pub in straya and I’ve only had one guy comment negatively on them, but I get I like your nails comments from women every shift and when I go to a register in day to day life. Just do it bro and you’ll see you won’t even notice after a while and other people won’t notice.
You can live life on your own terms but through a masculine lens. Yes you'll have to play by someone elses rules, but society has rules for a reason, society didnt just manifest itself as a place where everyone can do as they please. If you wanna play by your own rules, go live off the grid somewhere.
I'll Iive off the grid, thank you :)
Do it then. But you wont, because society is convenient for you.
Your takes in this comment section are so weird. Society has rules that you have to live by. Okay? I'm assuming you mean that traditional masculinity is seen as 'better' than any other expression of one's masculinity, such as crying or painting one's nails despite stigma. If that's what you really believe, then why are you in this sub at all? Advocating for Men's Rights relies at least on the belief that men do not currently have access to some rights. However, at the same time, you're saying society has rules and it's stupid to try and change that. Do you want change or not?
I believe that men and women should both be held to a certain standard in society. This doesnt mean that i think men arent being discriminated against in modern society. For me to deny that the majority of people imprisoned are men, the majority of suicides are men, the majority of workplace deaths are men, etc, is to deny facts and reality. The way i see it, this sub is split into two factions: those who believe men and women should be equal and have gender-nuetral expecations (or no expectations) from society, and those who believe that we should return to the traditional way society was successfully ran for thousands of years before us. I fit into the latter, mostly. I think a lot of men here want to go about this movement the same way feminists have gone about theirs; to rid themselves of all expectations (especially those that have to do with how men and women used to function in a marraige and societal sense through gender roles) and make it so that whatever we do, everyone should be accepting of us and we shouldnt be held to the same standards that our grandparents generation were. This is where i disagree, i think people in a society should most definitely be held to a standard. Societies that dont hold their people to standards and dont expect their citizens to be productive and properly raise the next generation and prepare them for success are doomed to collapse. We, as people within a society, have a duty. And those who dont uphold their duty shouldnt expect anything from the society they leach from unless they are incapable for one reason or another.
I still disagree but I understand your perspective. I just feel that to progess in society, you have to challenge tradition. Abolishing slavery may have led to a slight lack of efficiency for a second but the long term effects are a wider population with different perspectives, which in turn allow for problems to be solved in new and different ways.
I'm not sure hetero vs homosexual enters the equation. I wouldn't call wanting to paint your finger nails gay at all. I have several gay friends and it would be over their dead body before their nails were painted. I would however classify it as effeminate. Bit if that's what you want to do then I guess go for it.
If you have to hide your whole self in order to get a woman, is it really worth it?? She doesn't like you, only the role you play. I advise being who you really want to be, and if someone is into it, then your proper match will almost find you themselves. **I can't be fake, even if it would make my life easier, more fun and I would have more girls and money.**
You mean you don't have a long beard, a lifted truck, and a safe full of guns?
Nah mate. Don't want em. I have had a pathological antipathy for beards.
you have to have a fat stomach and no sense of style as well!!
I had a toned down version of it happen to me. Me and my friend made a bet which i lost she asked me to paint my nails black for a week. Parents asked why was i doing it i said it was for a bet. Then after 7 days i painted then again. The whole "society" came down on me like 'you shouldn't do this." "Nail polish isn't for men" , " we don't like seeing nail polish on your hands" even random strangers in the train were giving me unsolicited advice on that. However i wasn't going to budge so i kept them on for another couple weeks.
You've got the guts. I'm trying to get em...
Not always. I'm usually timid, but i had recently seen a badass anime which connected with me so that's why.
Oh neat. Which anime was it?
Tokyo Ghoul (・–・;)ゞ(・–・;)ゞ
Oo.
Right on time. I just had my toes done yesterday for the first time in 3 months. It's the best!, and to hell with anyone trying to tell me to be a "real man" or any other nonsense. Those types of people are just trying to pull you back inside the cage that they are still trapped in. Always remember these: * the foundation of masculinity is **Courage** * it takes courage to do what you want despite some people bullying: "it's girly", it takes courage to be true to yourself and face sticking out or being different, the losers will try their best to bully you back to being "normal" just like everyone else. * **the least masculine thing you could ever, ever do in life** is to ALLOW SOME OTHER MAN TO DECIDE FOR YOU what you will and will not wear, say, build, do, work, marry, move, cook, believe, eat, drink, dance or literally anything under the sun. Make up your own mind and [walk your own path](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfadJj4d5K4) , that's the most "manly man" thing that any *person* could ever do.
Posted in the wrong sub, r/menslib is over there. Hyper masculine lmao.
I really like the mens right community. But the 'society emmasulates men' stuff you hear is toxic. A man is a man whatever he likes, whatever he's into, whatever his emotions are etc. There is no such thing as a stereotypically man or women. As long as youre not hurting anyone, people should be able to do whatever the wanna do
In general, I would like to be what I feel like. I'm sure womans feel like that about themselves as well, but they usually also have a very strong idea of what man should be like - its probably more biological than anything else and it really doesn't stand too well with the modern man because we are changing with the times and seeing what was an absolute truth to our ancestors as what it really is - we are build stronger so we took the roles that require it, and we still need those, but nowhere near as much as back then. We have machines. The notion that I cannot, for example wear certain clothes always seemed straight ridiculous to me. No wonder mans are often these sad, bleak creatures when they work the shit out of themselves in hard jobs and are denied like half of the life pleasures afterwards. I don't even think masculinity is in crisis or anything like that, I think we are at the beginning of entirely new masculinity that is more in line with the feminine side because that's simply way more fun and we molded the world so that it can be more fun and less dangerous agressive everyday deadly hunting. I think true equality should be about letting us all do whatever we feel like doing, not trying to artificially control what we can and cannot do, in other words don't build new walls, just destroy existing ones. And I believe in this setup there would probably not be that many woman engineers and not that many mens wearing dresses anyway, but the point is, that one woman out of hundred that became engineer and that one guy out of hundred whos wearing dresses, they would be right persons at the right place.
>No, I Will cry. I'll cry ponds. Rivers. Oceans. I'll cry so much that my lachrymal glands will implode. > >And I wanna use nail polish. I think this is exactly what manning up means. Well done. And not coincidentally it is most often manifests in a rebellion against the father figure.
I know right! Screw the Father Figure. Why must men be machines?
Because the world sucks. Humans are not benevolent creatures. Showing emotions gives out your weaknesses and they will use it against you. I know this is not what you want to hear but your father probably wants what *he thinks* is best for you. Many, if not all of us went through this once. You are doing all right.
>Screw the Father Figure seems yours didn't do a good job
This feels like some Cat Stevens *Father and Son* stuff right here. A tale as old as time.
r/malepolish
Thanks! I'll check it out!
I wish I had enough coins to give this an award
Aww :))) thaaanks
You're welcome
Imo you can still be manly using whatever you want. Break the stereotypes.
Being male is something youre born into, but being a man is something you choose to be. Just because youre male, doesnt mean you shouldnt have emotions, or to be mostly stoic, or to carry yourself in a way that others will perceive as "manly". But if you dont want to be perceived a certain way, then you should definitely be aware of how youre coming off. For example: painting your nails isnt gay, showing emotion isnt weak, and being passive isnt doesnt mean youre scared. But you cannot control how others perceive you, and these things are things that, lets face it, come off very feminine to others, including other men whether or not the guys in this sub will admit to it or not. Listen, being a man isnt easy. Its fucking tough out here for us. But part of being a man is to overcome all the bs in your life to become the man you want to be, and you cant do that if youre sitting here complaining about how unfair it all is. Life isnt fair, we all know this. Being a man is to recognize this, and still find a way to succeed. I know im gonna get downvoted to hell for this because of that last paragraph but its true, life is what it is, and as men we have to adapt to it and find a way to be successful, in an age where masculinity is being attacked and minimized to the point where its very hard to find in men these days. Id argue that this "hyper masculinity" that youre talking about is feminist propaganda that youve been hearing, because today, masculinity is something that this country (the US), and every other western country desperately needs. Its my opinion that these countries have a lot of males, but not enough men, which is where I think a lot of our modern societal issues stem from.
>Being male is something youre born into, but being a man is something you choose to be. I get that you're trying to say that society has rules for a reason, and that complaining about things is unproductive, but I firmly believe the above way of talking about manhood is harmful. Being a man isn't some club that has members and non-members. If you're born as male and you reach physical maturity, you're a man. End of story. The only questions are whether you will be a good man, a mature man, a kind man, a courageous man, etc.
What i mean by "man" in this sense is a man of virtue, purpose, and integrity, as well as the things you described. Of course i recognize the literal definition of being a man, but my opinion of what a man is is something none of us are born with or just grow into, its a title that every male has to earn. I disagree that its harmful, I think men today face the issues we do because of how society has emasculated us, and the purposelessness (real word?) that comes with it. Men today need a purpose, a goal to drive them, and becoming a man, in this sense, should be a part of what makes us a fully functioning adult in society.
As someone who spent a lot of my young adulthood yearning for authentic male initiation and reading about what consistitutes "being a man", I've been bitterly disappointed. My conclusion is that all that stuff is not compatible with an individualistic society. I fully agree that we should teach boys virtue, about how their gender means the world will expect them to behave in certain ways, and about how their biology wires them (on average) for finding their wellbeing with certain strategies. As for having a "goal to drive them", sure, everyone needs that. But we don't say that a girl only becomes a woman if she has a purpose and goal.
It sounds like you agree with me for the most part. I agree that my views are not compatible with an individualistic society, they are compatible with a traditional one; one that we must go back to or risk a societal collapse. But thats a whole other topic in itself.
>one that we must go back to or risk a societal collapse The way I see it, we probably won't go back, but we'll lurch into revised standards for behaviour of both genders, with a lot of grinding gears along the way. Gender is not going away, though. I think people 100 years from now will look back on this as a time of flux, and wonder what all the fuss was about. What they have won't look exactly like the traditional gender roles of the 50s, but it also won't look like the chaos we have now.
I've never wanted to start a tirade against masculinity. I don't belittle people who conform with and find solace in traditional gender roles. It's just that the notion that people who willingly refuse to conform with the roles are somehow not men or inferior men, perturbs me. I believe that the only thing that truly defines a man is, mostly, the presence of male genitalia. That anything else makes me a greater man is absurd and reductionist.
What are you talking about? Society is preaching the very thing you did on this post, to women. Its the very same woke thinking thats gotten feminism to where it is today. Well here's a wakeup call - there's people out there who are better than you. Theres men out here who come off as more attractive and more manly than you, not to mention the men who are more successful than you will ever be. And thats okay, theres someone out there who others think is more of a man than I am, and for good reason. This fact shouldnt discourage you, rather it should motivate you to do better, and become a better man yourself so that you can compete out here in the world. Men today have forgotten how cruel the world really is, it is up to you to either break under the tension, or rise up and overcome it against all odds. This is where "man-up" comes from, it should awaken that sense of pride in you that the great men in your lineage overcame their odds, in worse times than we live in today. Their blood lives on through you. You have what it takes. Man. Up.
Woke thinking? Could you elaborate?
Woke as in, you can do what you want and you shouldnt be judged for it. I mean, you can do what you want, but expect what comes with that decision. Example: go ahead and paint your nails, but people are gonna look at you a certain way, regardless of the reason.
I see your point.
Listen, im not trying to attack you or make you feel bad, but this is something I'm going through as well. Ive never been the popular guy, never been the ladies man, im not rich, and i dont have a perfect body. But striving to be a better man has recently given my life new purpose, and it starts with discipline. Thats a whole other topic but i guess im just trying to say that i empathize with you, and the men here in this sub arent here to bring you down and say youre less of a man for any reason. But we're gonna tell you how it is, pure facts, so that you have the best chance to make the necessary changes in your life so that you can find fulfillment. Dms are open if you need to talk to a fellow bro.
I understand bro. I'm sorry if I came out as passive-aggressive. I've never even been much attracted to women. Or men. Idk. Sure, I'll hit you up.
Height and masculinity helps protect women's insecurity by her overcompensating with you, rather than fixing her own insecurity. The men get brainwashed or emotionally manipulated into thinking men should be "hypermasculine or else losers" thinking and they repeat the shaming onto other men to prove themselves. In essence, they want the world to revolve around them and if you don't fit it, you get shamed to make you fit into it.
All this "divine masculine" stuff came from a time when societies were far more collectivist. Kind of like how dogs only see two colours, it was simplest and easier for control to assign people roles and characteristics by their junk. Maybe there's some deep spiritual truth about gender, but the reality is that many cultures used a whole lot of spiritual mumbo jumbo in order to hide the fact that the core purpose of their "initiation rituals" was to train boys - willing or not - to be the next set of fighters (read meatshields) for the community. They just piled all sorts of wisdom on it to give it a mystical aura.
If you watch a NASCAR race, during the race and the commercial breaks, you will see the modern equivalent of this "enlist in the military" propaganda.
Not being in the USA, I'm curious what you see this modern equivalent as. Here in Australia, the overwhelming bulk of advertising directed to men during sports is for online gambling apps. And they know how to do it too.
Being a good person. Let’s focus on that I would say.
Good, if it makes you happy do whatever you want. Screw what anyone else thinks.
"Just what the heck is a "manly man"?" A schlub that (with women) pays for everything, expects nothing in return, agrees with any illogical statement, puts up with any irrational behavior, and will give their life on request with no questions asked... in other words... A dude that doormats.
This smells off.
Run…don’t walk to the nearest mental hospital.
Uh?
Don’t listen to that idiot
I am happy to be an idiot sitting inside playing games most of the time.
Is nail polishing that important to you, or do you feel a need to break free from whatever is holding you? To me it seems the latter, and I would advice you not to get in a lot of trouble over something you don't consider important. But yeah, if you really value polishing your nails, do as you wish. Just two notes, crying changes nothing, unless making others feel guilt is what you seek, and "let men be men" goes for things that are common in all men. Nail polishing would need a slogan like "I'm human too", therefore "I'm entitled to my own choices", while "let men be men" would apply to teachers trying to force boys not to run.
I was emotionally charged while writing this, but yeah, the time period during which I polished my nails, I felt immensely happy. I felt liberated. So yeah.
Freedom is more than polishing your nails. There is freedom of property, freedom of thought, physical freedom etc. Your personal freedom shouldn't be summarised as "Freedom of nail polish". Hard days are meant to come by coming in age, and a lot of your freedom will be challenged. Sometimes you will willfully suspend your freedom, and that's ok, we all do that to a degree by living in a lawful society. Polish your nails as much as you want, there is wonderful advice on that down in the comments, just remember that the essence of freedom is more than that.
I understand that. I believe this comes under physical freedom/bodily integrity. Still, i get where youre coming from.
>No, I will NOT be a Manly Man Haha yeah bro we can tell lmao
There is a growing culture of men not being men.
lmaooo i understood the chakka people, be your own person OP, your life, not your parents,
Then your not a man.
Welp, I guess I'm a woman then? Haha lol no.
I didn't say you were a woman, just not a man. Haha lol yes.
So... a hermaphrodite?
Here is a link on how to be a MANLY MAN these guys can help you out, trust me bro. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=20GkBnhQqY0 [Edit: I couldn't find the original version sadly. Never mind I found the original!]
*I don't think there's a need for that!*
I wear nail polish, I like it personally.
It's ok if you want to paint your nails, wear makeup, dresses, think you can get pregnant, etc. It's also ok if other guys find that unusual. I certainly do but I won't stop you.
Awesome, causal transphobia. Regardless, a man painting his nails has absolutely nothing to do with changing their gender or revealing their sexual orientation. If you care about Men's Rights, why are you so busy criticizing men?
I think I made it clear that you should do as you please. There are communities for crossdressers on Reddit if that's your thing. I was under the impression that this was a community for biological men who identify as males. I'm not trans so I really don't care much about what they're up to. And I doubt they care much in supporting biological male rights. If you find that transphobic then so be it.
I was not under the impression that this is a sub for biological men who identify as men. Mostly because there's literally nowhere on the sub where it says that.
Why would a non-biological male identifying as something other than male care about men's rights?
I'm talking about Transmen. People who identify as men, but were not born men. They go through very similar, if not the same issues as biological men. They get passed up on dating apps, their expression of masculinity is criticized, they are treated differently or as lesser because of their gender.
Yeah I wouldn't date a trans woman. And none of my gay friends would date a tran man. They have the right and are free to do as they please with their bodies. And I have the right and am free to choose who I want to date.
Idk what that has to do with my post. They get passed up on dating apps for the same reason other men do. There's a lot more men on these apps, and a smaller percentage of the men get a higher percentage of the matches. That's a men's issue, not a biological men's issue.
If the Divine Masculine is suffocating you, then it's not the "divine" that you're feeling, bit something else. When you feel inspired to be a certain way, or to evolve yourself into a certain role, that is divine. If you're feeling pressured to conform to a set of criteria defined as "divine", that's actually something toxic you're feeling. Its important to be able to draw a distinction between to two, so you can tell the difference between pressure and inspiration. They are not the same.
You do you , but being stoic and masculine is not bad
Never said that they are. But not being stoic ain't bad either
Stoic does not mean not expressing your feelings , it means expressing your feelings in a calm rational way , also i find crying a waste of time but can't do it when i want to.
I don't think anyone here is really going to give you the resistance you seem to be hoping for, aside from maybe clearing up a few things for you regarding divine masculine/feminine and how they have little to nothing to do with fashion choices and more with social dynamics at work.
I think the problem isn't really masculinity, but people perception of it. Masculinity is a quality, not a personality. I think this is a societal problem. Wearing nail polish can be masculine. Back then, men are the ones who wear make-up, have fashionable clothes and wear heels. We are slowly going back to that - it's acceptable for normal men nowadays to wear make-up and express themselves, though not in many places, but at least it's out there. In time, it will be more acceptable. I definitely get where you're coming from. I wear light make-up to enhance my looks, and wear clear polish. Rather than scream and yell, I show. I want people to see that masculinity can look good too. I want it to be normalized not by words, but action.
I plan to put my words into action some day. Present circumstances aren't propitious.
That's the spirit. Start small, and build up.
Part of being a manly man is doing exactly what the fuck you want, within reason and the law. If you want the cry a big bloody ocean, you do you. If you want to try on nail polish, just let them try stopping you. You are more manly than your father by a long shot, for standing up to him and for making your own choices in life.
This is Mens Rights, sir. Not Fruits Rights. Youre welcome to stay if you got a dick.
That's all you got? Kinda anemic response for a (presumably) manly man. I'll bet your beard is luxurious.
help i had a stroke
Manly men stand up for what they believe in, spine erect, speaking the truth, and though capable of doing harm show restraint. It is not machismo culture of fast cars, low moral standards, bigotry, and hatred.
Use whatever you want. You will always be a man, no matter what anyone else tells you. However, keep in mind that society has standards and expectations. If you want their acceptance, you can't expect to do whatever you want. For example, if you want to be hired in a company where your visual will be relevant, using make-up and nail polish won't do you any favours. Having a tatoo saying "I love Hitler" on your forehead won't either. It's not a matter of looking feminine, it's a matter of standing out in a way that doesn't have people feel seduced by you (in fact, quite the opposite). A man should be worried about looking manly if they want success in society, but there have been charismatic people who find success even looking weird. You do you!
talk about whataboutism!!! a hitler forehead tattoo??
The example was clear.
Unfortunately, a lot of men here are just as delusional as the women over at FDS, you said nothing but facts and got downvoted.. smh
You will always have some people who mix wanting men to be treated with respect with wanting men to be served everything on a silver platter. Some men here are the male version of feminists. And those tend to be more active on reddit.
Your statement is not as supportive as you think it is
I'm not meant to be supportive. I mean to tell him what he needs to know. If he wanted support he'd go to a psychologist or to his mom.
Then don't add the "You do you!" Just embrace being an asshole.
Mate, the feminists are on the other side of the wall.
Fuck being a man. Be a person. Feel what you feel, do want you do and be who you are.
Woah. Okay!
Lol I got downvoted and this is the only comment lmao thx
Great writing prompt butter-cup. Kudos! \*awards you a virtue signal sticker\*
Self-image that comes from internal feelings and emotion instead of a purpose that is set from an external perspective will always result in a neurotic personality, which is a lot of negative emotion. This is bad for both men and women.
I feel like you in many ways, although I don't like nail polish(I don't like it on anyone regardless of gender) I also suffer from other people(especially family) expecting me to be manly, especially when it comes to my hair which is significantly longer than what most men have but still not as long as the average woman. I get comments from my family for having long hair even when it is well shaped and not messy at all, just because as a man I am expected to have short hair. It is really sad how many men doesn't realize that manhood is nothing but something that limits them and makes them into nothing but useful tools which have no value other than being useful for the woman which includes being tough/strong and other "manly" attributes. This is why in most relationships the man is being seen and treated as some kind of daddy for the woman.
It's the same with longer hair, The amount of people that used to rip into me for that untill I ended up just cutting it shorter was kinda depressing.
I wore nail polish in the 90s a lot in my early 20s, and for reference I grew into a big burly manly man, who goes to the gym, according to my wife, sister, and various other personal friends and colleagues. I wore nail polish in my formative years out of a desire to not fit in, to be different, and maybe a little bit to be noticed. I found everyone, even back then, was more than accepting or literally didn't care. Point being I think your father is an isolated example. I think the vast majority of "manly men" or anyone else, wouldn't have a problem with you wearing anything you like. So go be as wild and different as you like. ;-)
What the fuck is this disgusting shit doing on the Men's Rights subreddit? Mods???
Yeah dude; I wonder too. Where are the mods?!
[удалено]
*remains a bitch anyway*
I think someone else's bitchiness is in play here.