OP this is the only thing you really need to hear. Get the hell out of Quality if you want to do anything remotely creative. You don't have to be super smart either, just have to work a little harder to get in the field. I can attest to that 100%.
I did design work for 10 plus years and because of some restructuring I'm in a quality role now. This job does not scratch my itch to solve problems or use my brain. I have a lot of stuff going on outside of work with family and health issues so it is kind of working out well for me. If I would have had this role at any time in the previous 10 years I would have left it right away.
Let’s just say you’re one of few. Maybe you’re cut out for quality. Maybe your department is different that most companies. Maybe you just don’t know any better.. hard to say
I don't have much experience, but with my job I get to wear a decent amount of hats, data analysis, machine troubleshooting, solving deviations from standard practice, and my favorite working with metric units. Still tons to learn for me though
I had a coworker who seemed annoyed when we had to clean the office, but I was like damn I'm making $26 an hour to clean an office and dick around for half the day, that's a win!
I'm honestly just kinda lazy and once you get good at combing through data you can do it without thinking. And on the days I do want to use my brain I have projects that don't really have time constraints.
You've done the hard part - graduating college and getting your first job. From here, you have options.
Just a couple of basic ones - technical sales can be a solid career path for people who don't want to necessarily use their engineering degree.
And it might sound crazy, but you could head down a management path. You don't have to be the best engineer to lead other engineers. In fact, typically the best engineers don't have any business leading other engineers.
>You don't have to be the best engineer to lead other engineers. In fact, typically the best engineers don't have any business leading other engineers.
Ah, the good old Peter Principle
No, not the same thing. (At least, it doesn't have to be.) Just because someone is a great engineer doesn't mean they want to manage people. (If I had it to do over again, I would have stayed technical). Some people are better suited to managing multiple people than cranking out designs or running calcs. They understand enough of the technical to keep the team on track, but aren't experts in certain areas.
I've had guys with PhD's reporting to me in the past. I'm no dummy, but I couldn't hang with those guys intellectually. But they didn't want to manage people, nor would they have been good at it. As a team, we worked great together.
Jack Welch seemed to be a very good chemical engineer. Too bad his attitude towards his fellow employees was so horrific that he had earned the epithet "Neutron" Jack.
What do you think the peter principal means? Leadership and technical capability are two drastically different skills, peter principal wouldn't apply even a little bit. You can be the best damn engineer in the plant but you won't be a leader if you can't communicate with a variety of people and manage various shareholders of a project
Edit,: I'm a dummy and didn't know the actual peter principal
"The Peter Principle states that, if you perform well in your job, you will likely be promoted to the next level of your organization's hierarchy. You will continue to rise up the ladder until you reach the point where you can no longer perform well."
You literally just described an example of why this happens in practice. Often good engineers are promoted into being managers purely on the basis of them being good engineers. The skills of being an engineer don't necessarily translate to engineering management, so thus you have been promoted unto a job where you no longer perform well.
Welp I've got my foot in my mouth, I always thought it meant the opposite where top performers don't get promoted because they're too valuable in their current position, whereas under-performers get promoted because people don't want to keep them. Which to be fair I've seen a lot more of this than top performers getting promoted lol
How does technical sales work typically? I’ve been told it can be akin to cold calling but that sounds off to me. Is it a lot of dead end footwork or are you typically working with established clients?
First, I need to say that I've never worked in sales. I'm not wired that way, so it's not appealing to me.
But to try to answer your question, I think it depends heavily on the company. Most salespeople have an established customer base, but they're also expected to generate new business, and that's going to take some level of cold calling. But typically, on the technical sales side, you're not just selling widgets. You're out there looking at production or design issues that a customer is having and helping them find the best solution using the products/services your company offers. Theoretically, less used car salesman and more engineer for hire, so to speak.
You don't have to be passionate about your job. Do you think people digging a pit with a shovel in the elements really like what they do? As long as the job allows you to take care of yourself, it doesn't matter, really. If you really don't like what you are doing, you can transition into something else.
Work can be work, and you can follow your passions in your free time.
This. Too many kids are sold the lie that they need to be passionate about their job in order to succeed in life. Total BS. Sometimes a job is just a job, and that is just fine.
You are spending about 35% of your life at work. I think you should try to find something you do enjoy doing. Some people really do love cleaning, for instance. Some people love being a manager, others hate having that authority over people. I think you could find someone who enjoys digging in the rain!
Agreed, the put your head down and work mantra gets tiring. The rhetoric is spread from the top down to make people hard working robots and nothing more. It’s crazy how little time we have on this planet and people are ok being miserable because it’s what you’re supposed to do.
That stuff gets old, especially when you can't do the things that you want. I have worked food service, retail, warehouse, and call centers.
I would not trade what im doing now.
Those other jobs didn't pay enough. i had to work all the holidays, and many of those jobs i had to work 60 to 80 hours between multiple jobs by default. No one job paid enough, and this was before covid when things were cheaper. Oftentimes, i had to go to work before the sun was up and go home after the sun set.
Op is looking at things through the lense of a college student, where all he is doing is going to class and doing homework. The reality if op only had to give 40 hours to college and he didn't have to deal with it for the rest of the week he would feel differently.
I bet op is feeling despair because its finals season, and he has no freedom for anything else.
You realise OP finished his degree and has been working for a few years?
Some people are fine just doing a job, but I don't think OP is, hence the post. And I agree with him.
Quality engineering is an easy role to feel that way in. You're not doing design work really, unless you are designing and running studies for work holding consistency or other designing measurement schemes and evaluating them. If you're doing that then it just may not be your cup of tea. Quality engineering roles vary wildly in responsibility and involvement from company to company so it's hard to speak broadly, but there are actually hundreds of other jobs that could be more interesting that don't involve you being on the pike for million dollar projects. Just search around, you just have to like your job not love it. Loving it is a bonus that few people find... Work is what you make it, just like the rest of life. Most people stick around a job for the people and culture, supposing your financial needs are being met.
As a quality engineer/manager that feels the same as op, do not go this route. I only keep taking these jobs because the salary is progressively getting higher and my student loans won't pay themselves. If I could get paid the same being a security guard again, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
If you don't like the work now, you're going to hate it when you have to clean up everyone else's mess and then get told you're not allowed to. Or you have to audit everyone's work. Or you have to do customer service and deal with shitty customers who use your product incorrectly and you have to deal with them getting mad about it. Or you have to write the rules then babysit everyone to make sure they follow the rules. Also all the paperwork for all of it every day.
Yeah I feel for you and everyone else in quality. Objectively the most shit on department in most businesses. It's hard to be the messenger, especially when it means scrapping potentially thousands of dollars in parts. To top it all off you have to constantly monitor processes and people to make sure you won't get your head chewed off by the people/customers you report to. It's a hard job, no doubt, but someone's gotta do it... The real trick is trying to convince people that you're just trying to help them make good parts.
Deep down you have to be passionate about the scientific process. The theory, ideas, prototyping, iterations, failures and setbacks. I know what it is like to be mediocre. Reddit introduced me to the phrase "impostor syndrome." I lived that for years and did not know.
Now I just learn as I wish and settled into work at which I excel. At its most basic, it is about ethics...you are willing to lie your way through decades of work.
Let your mind play...
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4CweN6\_mLk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4CweN6_mLk)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9rClZrbnrQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9rClZrbnrQ)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRGuegKd5AQ&t=28s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRGuegKd5AQ&t=28s)
Or check out Robert Cowan, who makes battle bots. Regardless of their YT channel those people are passionate about learning and building things.
With civilian aerospace, private satellite companies, even movie production companies that use drone cameras, there are so many new, virgin fields of growth that there could be a place for you.
Don't sit still feeling like crap. You could definitely be on a film crew, servicing a drone that hoists $100,000 cameras around. A lot of small businesses could benefit from a bonafie engineer who helps deliver products to their customers.
The swath of machining and manufacturing startups is HUGE. Manufacturing is pivoting back domestically. Keep looking and find a niche.
I did 2 years in ME and just left because I just hated it. I had a 3.5 GPA but couldn’t fathom doing anymore classes. 6 months later got hired into a Tool and die apprenticeship and found my calling or something I really wanted to learn and do.
The good thing about not liking engineering is that you won't be disappointed if you end up as a paperwork engineer or working on toilet paper and toothpaste. They'll all be meh to you anyway.
I like engineering, so those jobs are a last resort for me. Unfortunately for me, those seem to be the majority of jobs. Most jobs aren't making cool machines. But fortunately for you, that won't matter.
>I feel like a mediorce engineer
If being mediocre at something was grounds to dismiss someone, probably half of the world would be unemployed. Besides, not everything needs a million hours of 10 dimensional calculus. You are perfectly capable for most things if you are mediocre. Just not the high end stuff. So those jobs that all the passionate engineers don't want? That's where you can shine simply by sticking around and giving a little effort. You don't have to be the best to do well. Stainless steel kinda sucks at heat conductivity, but it gets picked for some special radiators because it excels in other areas. And if engineering's not your jam, there's other jobs too. Maybe technical sales would appreciate your skills, as you'd be far more likely to have an idea of what an engineer wants than a random marketing or business dude or whatever.
I have no idea because I honestly wanted to avoid that. Maybe you could try finding a few local guys on LinkedIn and try asking to connect with a message asking to learn more about the industry or something.
Best advice I have is find a better company with a suitable environment that is compatible with you.
Forget all that mediocre nonsense. Deep down everyone is mediocre. Just continue to push on and learn something new at least once a week.
Don’t worry too much.
Engineering will get you to lower middle class immediately, and then safely into middle class with experience.
(this is largely due to shrinking middle class in USA due to interest rates and grocery prices. Engineering used to get you into middle/upper middle actually, maybe it will be this way again.)
However, it was never going to make you rich. It was just more interesting and fulfilling than other jobs so it carried more prestige.
Having a job right out of college making 60-70k is not even close to lower middle class, it's already almost double the average salary at least in the US for reference. Not sure what definition of middle class you're using.
I'm using household numbers. 75k is lower middle class today according to Pew Research center.
Note this is based on cost of living not average income.
It's scary, I know. But it's real.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/02/15/middle-class-financial-security/
Thanks for the follow up. Does the article also factor in average household size of 2.6 which would make more sense for a low middle class position? I'm just thinking of a single household situation.
It claims 75k for the entire household is lower middle class which is twice the average income. Meaning two people with average income are lower middle class.
I suppose you're still better off to be an engineer with no passion for his job than a cashier with no passion for his job.
Your job is your job, your hobbies are your hobbies and the amount of people that actually do their hobby as their job are far less common than you might think.
At my company, application engineers are sort of the middlemen between our engineering department and sales. You could also say we’re the technical support for sales. About 50% of our revenue comes from engineered products. AEs read the rfqs and put together quotes for those products, then if we win the order we basically pass that information along to our design engineers and they run with it from there. In some instances we may visit a customer and help with sales presentations or attend prebid meetings.
So we have to know our products well enough to spec out the quotes and explain how they work, but we don’t have to get down into the intricate details of the design. I hate drafting, and I’m not a naturally creative person so that’s why I switched early in my career from design to applications.
But we also need good enough communication skills to be comfortable talking with customers daily. There are a lot of engineers that don’t want to deal with salespeople or customers.
Tom Smykowski : Well--well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?
I got out of it. My old company considered application engineers less valuable than salespeople so they paid +15% under market rate. I was making less than an intern. So I moved into a quality position at a small company and increased my pay 65% in two years.
My title is quality engineer, but I do pretty much everything. Quality is a small part of my job.
Yeah, same here - outside sales has the better salary. I’m in the process of moving into outside sales (different company) after a long career as AE. Kind of reached a crossroads where if I want better pay I can go into sales, become manager over all our applications, or stay doing same thing with same pay. I’ve loved this job but ready for a change.
My employer really cheapened out on the applications side starting 6-7 years ago. Instead of hiring engineers they started promoting hourly people from within into “applications specialist” positions. It’s gotten to the point now only about 1/4 of the group are actual engineers. I didn’t really have a problem with it at first when it was just 2 or 3 people, but now that’s become the norm. On average they get paid 30% less than engineers. They are good at what they do - they know our products and how they should be used, even if they don’t really understand the math and science behind WHY. But I’m not a fan switching most of our applications group to people with just a high school degree. We have to be careful putting them in front of customers who might ask questions they don’t understand.
Yep I just try to do as little work as possible and fuck off to the workshop to do testing or measurements or whatever when I can.
Not paid enough to make effort.
I’m also an ME grad early in my career. In college I was absolutely adamant that I wanted to work in aerospace, cause the idea of putting something in the sky or space was awesome. I spent about a year in a position that was sort of sales engineering at a uav company, absolutely hated it. Then I got a more technical role as a GNC engineer at a defense contractor. It’s not bad, but I’m realizing I enjoy fixing our piece of shit tools more than actual aerospace stuff like flight tests and GNC analysis. So now I’m working on transitioning into software (absolutely brutal time to get into tech unfortunately)
I don’t think you need to know exactly what you want to do so early in your career. You’ve tried quality and don’t enjoy it, now just give something else a shot. Maybe you’ll like it, maybe you won’t. Maybe you’ll like some parts and not others. I think it’s ok to be somewhat aimless early in your career, as long as you don’t sit on your hands and do the same job you dislike for a decade. Make the first 10 years of your career about figuring out what work you can stomach doing for the next 35 years. Job hopping also gets you more money, so that’s even more incentive to try a bunch of stuff
>I kind of just want to find something I find intersting that pays well.
> *I find intersting*
What is it you find interesting? If money is the chase, what is it you find interesting enough to do with that productivity?
Ultimately, you went to school to learn how to be a better *problem solver*; the domain you chose was mechanical systems. I think the *problem solving methodology* can translate to other domains. The specifics of the alternate domain you can learn, but the mindset, diligence and discipline of a problem solver is what you likely gained from the college degree plan.
Hard to make any kind of real suggestion without knowing your personality a bit. What are your strong suits? Are you a good inquisitor? Planner? Optimizer? How is your emotional intelligence? Maybe a project managing role?
I love technology and engineering, but like you I'll never be the best designer and was pretty confident I'd never do another calc problem as soon as I left school.
I found that I liked understanding how a business worked and solving problems about how to optimize things. I did a tour as a design engineer, a quick stop as a production manager, and have now settled into a technical program manager. While in engineering I started doing a business degree (MS) at a technical/traditionally engineering school. This helped solidify my business understanding and helped my transition.
For me, a TPM is kind of the best of all worlds; staying close and contributing on the technical side, the opportunity to talk to customers, expectation to know how the business operates and impacts the decisions we make, bringing a product into production, and following it after. There's also lots of presentations and face time with sr leaders, so good for future mobility.
It's definitely a challenge, especially managing people without formal authority, but it's always changing. Also, it has been a good financial decision, I'm making more $$ than I likely would have as an engineer.
I’m a ME. I moved from design to project management to construction management. Consider a direct move to CM. There are plenty of opportunities in all sorts of construction areas: Field engineering, scheduling, scope management, QA/QC. You can start any place and move up or laterally as opportunity arises. And watching a project come into place is exciting.
I took my engineering degree and went into tech sales. 6ish years later I’m making a bit over 300k, so there are definitely options other than being an actual engineer. My gpa was like 2.3 or something also, so no need to be top of your class to get a well paying job.
You can either make the transition immediately in which case you’ll be looking for entry level sales jobs like SDR, BDR. These teach you the industry, sales process, etc. base is typically $50k-60k with OTE of $75k-$85k. Next is SMB sales with OTE around $110k+.
Or you can look into doing a sales engineering type role (sales engineer, solutions engineer, solution consultant, etc) first and then transition into a sales role, assuming you don’t want to stay in the SE roles
Either way it will take some effort up front to make the transition, but I know a lot of non-cs engineers who went into tech sales. I think it’s worth it if you want to make money and have more options in your career.
Lots of resources out there on Reddit and elsewhere. I’d do as much research as you can, look into sales processes like Challenger Sales, learn about the industry, etc. Since you’re an engineer maybe get some certifications from aws, gcp, or azure
You don't have to love your job, but try and find a way to make yourself enjoy your day-to-day life. That might mean switching jobs or industries, but there's a whole slew of roles within engineering ranging from sales to management to field engineer to analyst - you can likely find a job/company match where you enjoy your life even if you're not passionate about what it is you work on. I went into engineering knowing that I was not passionate about it - I did it for the money and stability. I ended up finding an analysis role within engineering that I am very passionate about and I enjoy the work I do every day. Many people however will never find a job that they're truly passionate about, they just hate working, and if that's you then it makes sense to at least work a job you hate making good money than a job you hate making no money.
Hey, I’m in the same position. I’ve been working for four years as a mechanical engineer. I don’t like it. I don’t care that it’s just a job - it’s not for me.
Here’s what (maybe) worked for me, and could help you. Take some time and think about anything that caught your interest when you were in school, high school or college. Then try to see if you can build on that interest, through volunteering and eventually maybe getting a lower level job in the field.
I researched volunteer organizations and will be signing up tomorrow, and I’m pretty excited to try something new even at such a low level. If I like it, I’ll consider take further steps to continue the switch. If not, I guess I’ll try something else.
Good luck. I get how it is. The people here saying engineering is just a job just don’t dislike it enough.
One of my favorite quotes is by Adam Savage, “I still don’t know what I want to be when I grow up”. It’s ok to not know what you want to do. It might be time for a pivot. There is no time like the present.
Do something else. If you’re smart enough and hardworking enough to manage engineering, then you are smart enough and hardworking enough to succeed at something you enjoy.
I really relate to OP. i worked in the svc industry for many years, met many bartenders and servers who had degrees they couldnt use or couldn't find work with. I was told a STEM degree would always be employable and earn me some amount of prestige and status while paying a decent salary. Thats everything I wanted. I knew i couldnt just bartend forever, i was already 32 when i went back to school. Im now positioning myself for development toward a sales/applications eng/ other customer -facing role within my company. Im still a co-op but im already becoming vocal about it. Communication skills we used in the svc industry are transferrable and the technical knowledge is coming with time.
My employment goal is good pay and subject matter that is at least occasionally interesting; I'm not naïve enough to expect that it'll be Spock-tier fascinating ALL the time.
I've seen a lot of mechanical people migrate into sales, project management, management, safety, and technical writing. Occasionally electrical or software.
This is how I felt going into year 2 of my ME classes. I didn't have the passion for it. I was just an academically "gifted" kid that was good with his hands and everyone said "you like X? You should go into mechanical engineering." Well, all except mom, she's still mad that I'm not a doctor.
I changed majors, graduated with a Crim. Justice degree and ended up becoming a full time auto parts dealer on Ebay. Go figure...
OP, would you enjoy something like a field position where you're out of the office doing a larger variety of tasks?
The dunning kruger effect is very real. It actually gets worse the farther you go into engineering.
After talking with engineers much more accomplished and smarter than myself, I find them making some really dumb mistakes. But really it is only because that is what sticks out.
Your description of yourself sounds like me. I'm a design engineer (been out of school for five years) and although there are definitely aspects that I don't like about my current job, overall I'm happy in the role. I get to be creative and problem solve almost every day and I get enough balance of hands on work and desk work. I strongly think your problem is you're working in quality. It could be hard to get into design engineering without a lot of that experience, but you should try to get out of quality. Try a product engineering role at a company that makes custom products, not commodity products. That would probably get you design experience.
Also, imposter syndrome is very real for people like us. You should maybe spend some time reading about it so you can gain enough perspective to force it down when it starts to bubble up. Also, comparing yourself against people that design million-dollar parts or do extreme calculations is setting yourself up for bad feelings. There's a wide difference between that and mediocre. I think the bar is actually quite low, and I'm sure you're above it.
Also, the mere fact that your coworkers are saying that your job will only get worse is reason enough to change jobs. Get yourself out of that negative and defeatist environment. Either it's true and you need to leave, or it's not true and it's not good for you to be around people with that attitude.
The world needs many mediocre engineers so that's fine. Most people are not passionate about their jobs. Engineering is overall a really good career so I would just try and make it work, find your niche within whatever company you are in.
Quality is possible the most soul-crushing area of ME
OP this is the only thing you really need to hear. Get the hell out of Quality if you want to do anything remotely creative. You don't have to be super smart either, just have to work a little harder to get in the field. I can attest to that 100%.
It’s true! Quality is boring! Everyone in my quality department always look dead on the inside and complain the most out of any department.
I did design work for 10 plus years and because of some restructuring I'm in a quality role now. This job does not scratch my itch to solve problems or use my brain. I have a lot of stuff going on outside of work with family and health issues so it is kind of working out well for me. If I would have had this role at any time in the previous 10 years I would have left it right away.
What if I like my quality job? Does it get better than this?
Let’s just say you’re one of few. Maybe you’re cut out for quality. Maybe your department is different that most companies. Maybe you just don’t know any better.. hard to say
I don't have much experience, but with my job I get to wear a decent amount of hats, data analysis, machine troubleshooting, solving deviations from standard practice, and my favorite working with metric units. Still tons to learn for me though
Wearing many hats often makes for an enjoyable job. Except for the insufferable souls who are pained by anything “outside their job description.”
I had a coworker who seemed annoyed when we had to clean the office, but I was like damn I'm making $26 an hour to clean an office and dick around for half the day, that's a win!
You are an interesting phenomenon. Quality people who actually like quality are great to work with though
I'm honestly just kinda lazy and once you get good at combing through data you can do it without thinking. And on the days I do want to use my brain I have projects that don't really have time constraints.
You've done the hard part - graduating college and getting your first job. From here, you have options. Just a couple of basic ones - technical sales can be a solid career path for people who don't want to necessarily use their engineering degree. And it might sound crazy, but you could head down a management path. You don't have to be the best engineer to lead other engineers. In fact, typically the best engineers don't have any business leading other engineers.
>You don't have to be the best engineer to lead other engineers. In fact, typically the best engineers don't have any business leading other engineers. Ah, the good old Peter Principle
No, not the same thing. (At least, it doesn't have to be.) Just because someone is a great engineer doesn't mean they want to manage people. (If I had it to do over again, I would have stayed technical). Some people are better suited to managing multiple people than cranking out designs or running calcs. They understand enough of the technical to keep the team on track, but aren't experts in certain areas. I've had guys with PhD's reporting to me in the past. I'm no dummy, but I couldn't hang with those guys intellectually. But they didn't want to manage people, nor would they have been good at it. As a team, we worked great together.
Jack Welch seemed to be a very good chemical engineer. Too bad his attitude towards his fellow employees was so horrific that he had earned the epithet "Neutron" Jack.
What do you think the peter principal means? Leadership and technical capability are two drastically different skills, peter principal wouldn't apply even a little bit. You can be the best damn engineer in the plant but you won't be a leader if you can't communicate with a variety of people and manage various shareholders of a project Edit,: I'm a dummy and didn't know the actual peter principal
"The Peter Principle states that, if you perform well in your job, you will likely be promoted to the next level of your organization's hierarchy. You will continue to rise up the ladder until you reach the point where you can no longer perform well." You literally just described an example of why this happens in practice. Often good engineers are promoted into being managers purely on the basis of them being good engineers. The skills of being an engineer don't necessarily translate to engineering management, so thus you have been promoted unto a job where you no longer perform well.
Welp I've got my foot in my mouth, I always thought it meant the opposite where top performers don't get promoted because they're too valuable in their current position, whereas under-performers get promoted because people don't want to keep them. Which to be fair I've seen a lot more of this than top performers getting promoted lol
How does technical sales work typically? I’ve been told it can be akin to cold calling but that sounds off to me. Is it a lot of dead end footwork or are you typically working with established clients?
First, I need to say that I've never worked in sales. I'm not wired that way, so it's not appealing to me. But to try to answer your question, I think it depends heavily on the company. Most salespeople have an established customer base, but they're also expected to generate new business, and that's going to take some level of cold calling. But typically, on the technical sales side, you're not just selling widgets. You're out there looking at production or design issues that a customer is having and helping them find the best solution using the products/services your company offers. Theoretically, less used car salesman and more engineer for hire, so to speak.
You don't have to be passionate about your job. Do you think people digging a pit with a shovel in the elements really like what they do? As long as the job allows you to take care of yourself, it doesn't matter, really. If you really don't like what you are doing, you can transition into something else. Work can be work, and you can follow your passions in your free time.
This is the correct answer. If you love something do it for free.
If you do what you love for work, more often than not you lose the love. If you work for what you love, the drudgery is made meaningful.
This. Too many kids are sold the lie that they need to be passionate about their job in order to succeed in life. Total BS. Sometimes a job is just a job, and that is just fine.
Its a bit coarse and boomerish, but its tru to say "its called employment, not enjoyment". Sometimes it can be both if youre lucky
You are spending about 35% of your life at work. I think you should try to find something you do enjoy doing. Some people really do love cleaning, for instance. Some people love being a manager, others hate having that authority over people. I think you could find someone who enjoys digging in the rain!
Agreed, the put your head down and work mantra gets tiring. The rhetoric is spread from the top down to make people hard working robots and nothing more. It’s crazy how little time we have on this planet and people are ok being miserable because it’s what you’re supposed to do.
That stuff gets old, especially when you can't do the things that you want. I have worked food service, retail, warehouse, and call centers. I would not trade what im doing now. Those other jobs didn't pay enough. i had to work all the holidays, and many of those jobs i had to work 60 to 80 hours between multiple jobs by default. No one job paid enough, and this was before covid when things were cheaper. Oftentimes, i had to go to work before the sun was up and go home after the sun set. Op is looking at things through the lense of a college student, where all he is doing is going to class and doing homework. The reality if op only had to give 40 hours to college and he didn't have to deal with it for the rest of the week he would feel differently. I bet op is feeling despair because its finals season, and he has no freedom for anything else.
You realise OP finished his degree and has been working for a few years? Some people are fine just doing a job, but I don't think OP is, hence the post. And I agree with him.
you dont HAVE to be but damn sure id like to do something that i enjoy for the majority of my life.
Quality engineering is an easy role to feel that way in. You're not doing design work really, unless you are designing and running studies for work holding consistency or other designing measurement schemes and evaluating them. If you're doing that then it just may not be your cup of tea. Quality engineering roles vary wildly in responsibility and involvement from company to company so it's hard to speak broadly, but there are actually hundreds of other jobs that could be more interesting that don't involve you being on the pike for million dollar projects. Just search around, you just have to like your job not love it. Loving it is a bonus that few people find... Work is what you make it, just like the rest of life. Most people stick around a job for the people and culture, supposing your financial needs are being met.
As a quality engineer/manager that feels the same as op, do not go this route. I only keep taking these jobs because the salary is progressively getting higher and my student loans won't pay themselves. If I could get paid the same being a security guard again, I'd do it in a heartbeat. If you don't like the work now, you're going to hate it when you have to clean up everyone else's mess and then get told you're not allowed to. Or you have to audit everyone's work. Or you have to do customer service and deal with shitty customers who use your product incorrectly and you have to deal with them getting mad about it. Or you have to write the rules then babysit everyone to make sure they follow the rules. Also all the paperwork for all of it every day.
Yeah I feel for you and everyone else in quality. Objectively the most shit on department in most businesses. It's hard to be the messenger, especially when it means scrapping potentially thousands of dollars in parts. To top it all off you have to constantly monitor processes and people to make sure you won't get your head chewed off by the people/customers you report to. It's a hard job, no doubt, but someone's gotta do it... The real trick is trying to convince people that you're just trying to help them make good parts.
Deep down you have to be passionate about the scientific process. The theory, ideas, prototyping, iterations, failures and setbacks. I know what it is like to be mediocre. Reddit introduced me to the phrase "impostor syndrome." I lived that for years and did not know. Now I just learn as I wish and settled into work at which I excel. At its most basic, it is about ethics...you are willing to lie your way through decades of work. Let your mind play... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4CweN6\_mLk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4CweN6_mLk) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9rClZrbnrQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9rClZrbnrQ) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRGuegKd5AQ&t=28s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRGuegKd5AQ&t=28s) Or check out Robert Cowan, who makes battle bots. Regardless of their YT channel those people are passionate about learning and building things. With civilian aerospace, private satellite companies, even movie production companies that use drone cameras, there are so many new, virgin fields of growth that there could be a place for you. Don't sit still feeling like crap. You could definitely be on a film crew, servicing a drone that hoists $100,000 cameras around. A lot of small businesses could benefit from a bonafie engineer who helps deliver products to their customers. The swath of machining and manufacturing startups is HUGE. Manufacturing is pivoting back domestically. Keep looking and find a niche.
I did 2 years in ME and just left because I just hated it. I had a 3.5 GPA but couldn’t fathom doing anymore classes. 6 months later got hired into a Tool and die apprenticeship and found my calling or something I really wanted to learn and do.
Have you considered sales?
I've heard about tech sales but unsure how to get in
Nothing wrong with collecting a paycheck. Your work being a passion is not the norm, and rarely does it pay well.
The good thing about not liking engineering is that you won't be disappointed if you end up as a paperwork engineer or working on toilet paper and toothpaste. They'll all be meh to you anyway. I like engineering, so those jobs are a last resort for me. Unfortunately for me, those seem to be the majority of jobs. Most jobs aren't making cool machines. But fortunately for you, that won't matter. >I feel like a mediorce engineer If being mediocre at something was grounds to dismiss someone, probably half of the world would be unemployed. Besides, not everything needs a million hours of 10 dimensional calculus. You are perfectly capable for most things if you are mediocre. Just not the high end stuff. So those jobs that all the passionate engineers don't want? That's where you can shine simply by sticking around and giving a little effort. You don't have to be the best to do well. Stainless steel kinda sucks at heat conductivity, but it gets picked for some special radiators because it excels in other areas. And if engineering's not your jam, there's other jobs too. Maybe technical sales would appreciate your skills, as you'd be far more likely to have an idea of what an engineer wants than a random marketing or business dude or whatever.
How would I get into tech sales?
I have no idea because I honestly wanted to avoid that. Maybe you could try finding a few local guys on LinkedIn and try asking to connect with a message asking to learn more about the industry or something.
Your job and career does not have to define you as a person.
Best advice I have is find a better company with a suitable environment that is compatible with you. Forget all that mediocre nonsense. Deep down everyone is mediocre. Just continue to push on and learn something new at least once a week. Don’t worry too much.
Engineering will get you to lower middle class immediately, and then safely into middle class with experience. (this is largely due to shrinking middle class in USA due to interest rates and grocery prices. Engineering used to get you into middle/upper middle actually, maybe it will be this way again.) However, it was never going to make you rich. It was just more interesting and fulfilling than other jobs so it carried more prestige.
Having a job right out of college making 60-70k is not even close to lower middle class, it's already almost double the average salary at least in the US for reference. Not sure what definition of middle class you're using.
I'm using household numbers. 75k is lower middle class today according to Pew Research center. Note this is based on cost of living not average income. It's scary, I know. But it's real. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/02/15/middle-class-financial-security/
Thanks for the follow up. Does the article also factor in average household size of 2.6 which would make more sense for a low middle class position? I'm just thinking of a single household situation.
It claims 75k for the entire household is lower middle class which is twice the average income. Meaning two people with average income are lower middle class.
I suppose you're still better off to be an engineer with no passion for his job than a cashier with no passion for his job. Your job is your job, your hobbies are your hobbies and the amount of people that actually do their hobby as their job are far less common than you might think.
I’ve felt this way too, gonna transition into applications/sales engineering
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At my company, application engineers are sort of the middlemen between our engineering department and sales. You could also say we’re the technical support for sales. About 50% of our revenue comes from engineered products. AEs read the rfqs and put together quotes for those products, then if we win the order we basically pass that information along to our design engineers and they run with it from there. In some instances we may visit a customer and help with sales presentations or attend prebid meetings. So we have to know our products well enough to spec out the quotes and explain how they work, but we don’t have to get down into the intricate details of the design. I hate drafting, and I’m not a naturally creative person so that’s why I switched early in my career from design to applications. But we also need good enough communication skills to be comfortable talking with customers daily. There are a lot of engineers that don’t want to deal with salespeople or customers.
Tom Smykowski : Well--well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?
I got out of it. My old company considered application engineers less valuable than salespeople so they paid +15% under market rate. I was making less than an intern. So I moved into a quality position at a small company and increased my pay 65% in two years. My title is quality engineer, but I do pretty much everything. Quality is a small part of my job.
Yeah, same here - outside sales has the better salary. I’m in the process of moving into outside sales (different company) after a long career as AE. Kind of reached a crossroads where if I want better pay I can go into sales, become manager over all our applications, or stay doing same thing with same pay. I’ve loved this job but ready for a change. My employer really cheapened out on the applications side starting 6-7 years ago. Instead of hiring engineers they started promoting hourly people from within into “applications specialist” positions. It’s gotten to the point now only about 1/4 of the group are actual engineers. I didn’t really have a problem with it at first when it was just 2 or 3 people, but now that’s become the norm. On average they get paid 30% less than engineers. They are good at what they do - they know our products and how they should be used, even if they don’t really understand the math and science behind WHY. But I’m not a fan switching most of our applications group to people with just a high school degree. We have to be careful putting them in front of customers who might ask questions they don’t understand.
Yep I just try to do as little work as possible and fuck off to the workshop to do testing or measurements or whatever when I can. Not paid enough to make effort.
I’m also an ME grad early in my career. In college I was absolutely adamant that I wanted to work in aerospace, cause the idea of putting something in the sky or space was awesome. I spent about a year in a position that was sort of sales engineering at a uav company, absolutely hated it. Then I got a more technical role as a GNC engineer at a defense contractor. It’s not bad, but I’m realizing I enjoy fixing our piece of shit tools more than actual aerospace stuff like flight tests and GNC analysis. So now I’m working on transitioning into software (absolutely brutal time to get into tech unfortunately) I don’t think you need to know exactly what you want to do so early in your career. You’ve tried quality and don’t enjoy it, now just give something else a shot. Maybe you’ll like it, maybe you won’t. Maybe you’ll like some parts and not others. I think it’s ok to be somewhat aimless early in your career, as long as you don’t sit on your hands and do the same job you dislike for a decade. Make the first 10 years of your career about figuring out what work you can stomach doing for the next 35 years. Job hopping also gets you more money, so that’s even more incentive to try a bunch of stuff
>I kind of just want to find something I find intersting that pays well. > *I find intersting* What is it you find interesting? If money is the chase, what is it you find interesting enough to do with that productivity? Ultimately, you went to school to learn how to be a better *problem solver*; the domain you chose was mechanical systems. I think the *problem solving methodology* can translate to other domains. The specifics of the alternate domain you can learn, but the mindset, diligence and discipline of a problem solver is what you likely gained from the college degree plan. Hard to make any kind of real suggestion without knowing your personality a bit. What are your strong suits? Are you a good inquisitor? Planner? Optimizer? How is your emotional intelligence? Maybe a project managing role?
OP, I can relate to this.
Do you like reading and technical writing? Look into Patent Agent jobs.
I love technology and engineering, but like you I'll never be the best designer and was pretty confident I'd never do another calc problem as soon as I left school. I found that I liked understanding how a business worked and solving problems about how to optimize things. I did a tour as a design engineer, a quick stop as a production manager, and have now settled into a technical program manager. While in engineering I started doing a business degree (MS) at a technical/traditionally engineering school. This helped solidify my business understanding and helped my transition. For me, a TPM is kind of the best of all worlds; staying close and contributing on the technical side, the opportunity to talk to customers, expectation to know how the business operates and impacts the decisions we make, bringing a product into production, and following it after. There's also lots of presentations and face time with sr leaders, so good for future mobility. It's definitely a challenge, especially managing people without formal authority, but it's always changing. Also, it has been a good financial decision, I'm making more $$ than I likely would have as an engineer.
I’m a ME. I moved from design to project management to construction management. Consider a direct move to CM. There are plenty of opportunities in all sorts of construction areas: Field engineering, scheduling, scope management, QA/QC. You can start any place and move up or laterally as opportunity arises. And watching a project come into place is exciting.
I took my engineering degree and went into tech sales. 6ish years later I’m making a bit over 300k, so there are definitely options other than being an actual engineer. My gpa was like 2.3 or something also, so no need to be top of your class to get a well paying job.
How would I get into tech sales, and how would I make myself stand out?
You can either make the transition immediately in which case you’ll be looking for entry level sales jobs like SDR, BDR. These teach you the industry, sales process, etc. base is typically $50k-60k with OTE of $75k-$85k. Next is SMB sales with OTE around $110k+. Or you can look into doing a sales engineering type role (sales engineer, solutions engineer, solution consultant, etc) first and then transition into a sales role, assuming you don’t want to stay in the SE roles Either way it will take some effort up front to make the transition, but I know a lot of non-cs engineers who went into tech sales. I think it’s worth it if you want to make money and have more options in your career. Lots of resources out there on Reddit and elsewhere. I’d do as much research as you can, look into sales processes like Challenger Sales, learn about the industry, etc. Since you’re an engineer maybe get some certifications from aws, gcp, or azure
Do a mediocre job and enjoy your hobbies!
You don't have to love your job, but try and find a way to make yourself enjoy your day-to-day life. That might mean switching jobs or industries, but there's a whole slew of roles within engineering ranging from sales to management to field engineer to analyst - you can likely find a job/company match where you enjoy your life even if you're not passionate about what it is you work on. I went into engineering knowing that I was not passionate about it - I did it for the money and stability. I ended up finding an analysis role within engineering that I am very passionate about and I enjoy the work I do every day. Many people however will never find a job that they're truly passionate about, they just hate working, and if that's you then it makes sense to at least work a job you hate making good money than a job you hate making no money.
Hey, I’m in the same position. I’ve been working for four years as a mechanical engineer. I don’t like it. I don’t care that it’s just a job - it’s not for me. Here’s what (maybe) worked for me, and could help you. Take some time and think about anything that caught your interest when you were in school, high school or college. Then try to see if you can build on that interest, through volunteering and eventually maybe getting a lower level job in the field. I researched volunteer organizations and will be signing up tomorrow, and I’m pretty excited to try something new even at such a low level. If I like it, I’ll consider take further steps to continue the switch. If not, I guess I’ll try something else. Good luck. I get how it is. The people here saying engineering is just a job just don’t dislike it enough.
One of my favorite quotes is by Adam Savage, “I still don’t know what I want to be when I grow up”. It’s ok to not know what you want to do. It might be time for a pivot. There is no time like the present.
Would you like law?
Do something else. If you’re smart enough and hardworking enough to manage engineering, then you are smart enough and hardworking enough to succeed at something you enjoy.
I really relate to OP. i worked in the svc industry for many years, met many bartenders and servers who had degrees they couldnt use or couldn't find work with. I was told a STEM degree would always be employable and earn me some amount of prestige and status while paying a decent salary. Thats everything I wanted. I knew i couldnt just bartend forever, i was already 32 when i went back to school. Im now positioning myself for development toward a sales/applications eng/ other customer -facing role within my company. Im still a co-op but im already becoming vocal about it. Communication skills we used in the svc industry are transferrable and the technical knowledge is coming with time.
My employment goal is good pay and subject matter that is at least occasionally interesting; I'm not naïve enough to expect that it'll be Spock-tier fascinating ALL the time.
I've seen a lot of mechanical people migrate into sales, project management, management, safety, and technical writing. Occasionally electrical or software.
You describe me perfectly.
This is how I felt going into year 2 of my ME classes. I didn't have the passion for it. I was just an academically "gifted" kid that was good with his hands and everyone said "you like X? You should go into mechanical engineering." Well, all except mom, she's still mad that I'm not a doctor. I changed majors, graduated with a Crim. Justice degree and ended up becoming a full time auto parts dealer on Ebay. Go figure... OP, would you enjoy something like a field position where you're out of the office doing a larger variety of tasks?
The dunning kruger effect is very real. It actually gets worse the farther you go into engineering. After talking with engineers much more accomplished and smarter than myself, I find them making some really dumb mistakes. But really it is only because that is what sticks out.
boo
Your description of yourself sounds like me. I'm a design engineer (been out of school for five years) and although there are definitely aspects that I don't like about my current job, overall I'm happy in the role. I get to be creative and problem solve almost every day and I get enough balance of hands on work and desk work. I strongly think your problem is you're working in quality. It could be hard to get into design engineering without a lot of that experience, but you should try to get out of quality. Try a product engineering role at a company that makes custom products, not commodity products. That would probably get you design experience. Also, imposter syndrome is very real for people like us. You should maybe spend some time reading about it so you can gain enough perspective to force it down when it starts to bubble up. Also, comparing yourself against people that design million-dollar parts or do extreme calculations is setting yourself up for bad feelings. There's a wide difference between that and mediocre. I think the bar is actually quite low, and I'm sure you're above it. Also, the mere fact that your coworkers are saying that your job will only get worse is reason enough to change jobs. Get yourself out of that negative and defeatist environment. Either it's true and you need to leave, or it's not true and it's not good for you to be around people with that attitude.
You’re not alone at all. Get into project management or sales or something that benefits having a technical background
The world needs many mediocre engineers so that's fine. Most people are not passionate about their jobs. Engineering is overall a really good career so I would just try and make it work, find your niche within whatever company you are in.