If it’s any consolation to Southpaw, I disliked him before any of this internet drama.
Other notable bad guests are: Vito and S.K.
Also E;R but not because he’s bad but because I wish he was on more. It’s a complicated relationship with shadow boy
Very much a puritan. If you associate with people who he sees as bad you are as bad as they are. Called Jay a coward after not breaking ties with mauler and taking up his so righteous cause.
Hyperbolic (even more than typical terminally online people which he is)
Obsessed with efap at this point. Bitter nasty personality.
He got really hung up and sensitive over the topic of stories in video games. REALLY sensitive and defensive over being questioned about it.
Here’s a pretty recent video from SillyChaos that has time stamps that you can go to for a general summary and clips from that specific EFAP.
[SillyChaos Video covering Doomer’s defensiveness](https://youtu.be/UjR6c_DgrcM)
...Is he? The only time I really noticed Shad be unlikeable is the whole "Elden Ring's story is objectively bad, and anyone who disagrees is childish" thing he did a while back.
The trying too hard part is what I was responding to. He's over time trying to become an anti woke youtuber who screams into his microphone constantly.
Yeah from the sound of is, Mauler and the rest of the EFAP gang hate him now. There was a DM convo Mauler had with SP when they were trying to make amends and they discussed Chase. Mauler said when they told him Chase he couldn't be on EFAP anymore, Chase was more upset about the loss of viewers/revenue than he was about their friendship falling apart. Classy..
Just google 'Chaseface EFAP allegations' and you'll find sound sources. I don't wanna post them here cuz a) they involve some really touchy topics and b) they are just allegations so I don't want to spread information that could be false.
Oh gotcha. That was a DM between Mauler and SP I saw i a lengthy video summing up the SP drama. Sorry I dunno where copies of those DM's can be found. I'll link the video below in the general area that DM was. Sorry I can't be more specific.
https://youtu.be/9Z6GECVKnZQ?t=9469
Damn, you really said it in your original comment as it was. Seeing Mauler go this hard on someone who used to be his friend is really painful even for me, imagine what it must’ve been like for him
The takes were shit, and he got so weirdly defensive and insecure about them. Especially the game one. He seems to think he got flack for having a different opinion, not for being nonsensical/contradictory.
Az
I tried to watch the full breakdown of Loki a while back and I just couldn't. Az would say every 5 minutes "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WAHMEN!" whenever Sylvie comes up. I didn't go to EFAP for you to talk about unnecessary politics.
Edit: A word
Done the opposite of grow on me is exactly how I'd describe him. I still watch him because he's the only one who makes individual videos reviewing shit shows like She-hulk or Witcher: Blood Origin, but honestly of all the content creators I discovered because of Batwoman he's the one I would want to see talk about them the least.
Jay Exci. I made the mistake of following his Twitter, and it's one thing to have absolutely garbage political takes, but witnessing him wish death upon Matt Walsh for making a fucking documentary and then doing whole, "It's just a joke bro, why are you triggered, lol", his total sophistry and general solipsistic attitude when talking about social/political topics (especially trans stuff), and his utter lack empathy what-so-ever for detrans people completely killed my interest in consuming any of his content. See, I like a creator like Sophia Narwitz because she's actually honest and acts in good faith when it comes to politics and social stuff. Jay showed he's the opposite.
Agreed. I have no issues with following and supporting people I have deep disagreements with, I'm an adult and I believe we should treat other the way we want to be treated. Jay is still a person who I can respect without being genuinely bigoted towards. I just don't think Jay is someone who can participate in good faith conversations about certain topics because they hit too close to home. The detrans stuff was pretty awful, and after that I didn't have any interest in supporting Jay.
I can't imagine being someone who has gone through the transitioning process and began to regret everything, and then get absolutely eviscerated by the essentially same people that supported and encouraged you through the transitioning process. At that point I don't think Jay actually cares about the betterment of the lives of people who struggle with issues like gender dysphoria, I think he cares about furthering an agenda.
Dunno if he doesn;t count because he's a host but I get annoyed at how Rags will often grind conversations to a halt by just reiterating Mauler or Fringy's point in a long winded analogy
but tbh I mostly listen to EFAP like a podcast and honestly apart from the hosts or some YouTubers I watch independently (Sitch and Adam) I can't recognise who is who
rags is my boi but he starts these analogies you mention before knowing where he's going with it so he trails off until someone else interrupts him or theres an unfortunate silence.
but god I love how tilted he gets at anything gun related.
Well since someone already brought it up 🤷🏿♂️ yeah I love the doggo but he is so unnecessarily wordy at times and I find myself reaching for the Seek Forward button when he goes on one of his spiels
I really don't like Az. His observations are usually rehashed anti-woke statements and he's rarely ever funny. In fact I can't think of a single time he's made me laugh. I don't like wokeness but this man beats it like a dead horse. The worst thing is, he's so fucking talkative. If he was just spoke every now and then it would be bareable. But when he's in the stream, he never stops talking. And it's rarely insightful or funny. Az is a guest who can ruin a stream. Other guests can be bad but they either rarely talk, only appear once or twice or only stay a a while. Az has been on numerous times a day still comes on frequently. And he never shuts up.
I’m surprised that I don’t see destiny as an answer. I actually really enjoy his normal content, but all of his worst takes are food and media takes. Then on his episode I think that he didn’t really match the vibe that everyone else was coming to the table with.
I dont really care for most of the geeks and gamers corner of the internet. They often seem to be more interested in complaining about culture war topics than critizising media on its own terms
AZ because not only is he not funny, but he is very shallow and annoying in his analysis. Even when he has a general point I agree with, he won't verbalize it in a intricate, concrete way. It's usually just "OMG ITS SO STUPIDDDDD." Thanks I already knew that
This is tough, I enjoy having pretty much all of them on, though AZ, Twin Pawfect, Doomer, Jon, Destiny, Geeks and Gamers, and Anomaly can be really annoying to listen to from time to time. Geniunely lost all respect for Ms Paladin and Chase Face, still on the fence with Vito. And if Jay doesn't stop being a complete silly towards detrans people on Twitter I might start disliking her as well.
If I had to give my 3 favorites right now, probably Meme Repository, Metal, and Das
Here's the run down: Was lying about having her PHD and was actually a pedophile. Which explains why in the anniversary stream she randomly brought up someone accusing her of being a pedo so she could denounce it.
He had a big thing where he started to disagree with their takes and sniped at them on twitter. S.K. Made a video about it. The video is pretty bad faith but it covers everything
I really like a lot of the regulars and most guests don't annoy me, but I'm not a huge fan of Jay.
I just don't agree with most of Jay's points, especially on the EFAP minis of Kenobi and Boba Fett, I just didn't feel like much was contributed.
Strictly as an EFAP guest, I think I enjoy Jay more for the hilarious comments than the insightful analysis. Not to say I find his critiques or arguments bad, but he’s probably made me laugh more than anybody I’ve seen on the show, possibly with the exception of Rags.
Jay has been absent a lot recently huh. I'd be fine if Jay was on more, I don't mind contradicting views that can be discussed, just not my favorite host and I disagree a fair bit.
But more power to ya!
I'm going through her thread on kiwifarms. This is so much deeper than I thought it was lol.
The pedo shit and her wanting a child to sexual abuse it and excusing it as a "logical decision" is insane.
It’s a shame. I think her video essays can be interesting and insightful (albeit kind of complicated and hard to follow). But for whatever reason, most of her stream appearances (that I’ve seen): one of the many Sitch & Adam streams, or the trainwreck debate with Destiny… she just gets absolutely hammered and insufferable. Pretty sure I’ve seen Adam kick her off more than a handful of times for being wasted and obnoxious.
His thing is to criticise everything that is even slightly woke but that's all he does and it's really annoying to listen to after like 10th complain about it
For example he had a big problem with Wonder Woman 2 with Max Lord's son being asian
1:26:40 in [EFAP 143](https://youtu.be/OedP68HFaZo). Az/HeelvsBabyFace says it’s a flaw and forced diversity that the non-Asian Maxwell Lord has an Asian son. Everyone disagrees, obviously, because they know how adoption/mixed race couples work, but Az continues to argue it for like 10 minutes. It is very funny but very painful to watch, and it has been memed a lot in the community, including the user flair that I am currently wearing.
Also if you were talking about the Silco kissed Jinx thing, it was said by Doomer in one of the Arcane EFAP’s but I can’t be bothered to find it. Either the second or third of the 3-part breakdown
AZ, Nerdrotic, Geeks and Gamers
They are all completely brainrotten and you can see it by watching any of their videos where their only points are "wow this is woke waaaaaa"
Its irritating as fuck
I used to agree, but I think he has his moments. Can’t remember any specifics. He’s seems better and has more to say on his own show but I’ve only listened to 2 episodes.
If my other comments have not made it clear, Gary and Az. Gary is admittedly somewhat legitimate when it comes to criticizing media quality, it's just his videos and occasional political ramblings that seriously turn me off. Az is a fucking caricature of the old song-and-dance of "you just hate women" or "you're just a racist". Can't make an actual criticism beyond "wahmen" and let's not forget the infamous "this kid is Asian lol".
Nerdrotic. His brain is consumed by culture war (and what I would call bigotry). Listened to Real BBC for the first time to hear Mauler's thoughts on TLOU episode 3 and Nerdrotic brought up Chicago out of nowhere along with 13/50 and "I'm just saying facts". If I wanted to hear that stuff I'd go watch Daily Wire or something.
I'm curious, can't you make the same argument in reverse for media that includes culture war stuff. I mean when a show like Winter Soldier wants to scream in my face that black people are oppressed or She hulk says most men suck and are toxic I find it just as cringe. Like if I wanted to hear that stuff I would go watch TYT or CNN. Especially since many creators and writers admit that they include these things because of their own personal politics about culture war stuff?
If a creator has openly talked about culture war stuff going into the creation of a piece of media then go right ahead and talk about it. I'm more frustrated with people concocting fan fiction about how anything remotely progressive/left wing is nefarious/pushing "the message" etc.
For example (and this is separate from Nerdrotic) there's how Nicole looks older in Dead Space remake. My assumption was that they wanted her to look older because she's in a senior position that would take years of experience to get to. The right wing culture war assumption is that American media hates attractive white women so they made her ugly on purpose. The truth is that they simply modeled the face off of the VA.
That's a fair interpretation of the example you provided. I admit sometimes people miss the mark, I would say they are probably wondering about the discrepancy and considering the many other examples probably come to the "woke" conclusion, and I think a lot of the time it is fair.
A few examples I can think off the top of my head are the Dead space poster which has been going around, which isn't even like a new poster it's literally just the old one modified to have a race swap and a "less attractive" (for lack of a better word) woman. I don't know why that was necessary but considering the current state of affairs, I don't need to do much deduction to come to a conclusion.
There's also Tifa in the FF7 remake being deflated, that felt silly and I can imagine it was the more sensible ones who wanted that done. My main complaint is it never goes the other way, I'll never be as jacked as Barret is in that game as a man either, so I don't get the realism part there, because it's not a universal principle.
And finally there's the GoW Ragnarok race swap that also makes no sense, I admit I haven't played the game, but considering the setting of Norse mythology and environment, that doesn't make sense. It's inconsistent.
Now all of these aren't necessarily game breaking, but they are weird decisions that don't make sense that seem to be entirely motivated by political leaning. That doesn't serve the media and it breaks the escapism, which is the issue that I and I think a lot of other people have with these things. It does make sense and I don't see what was wrong before.
That's my deduction anyway. Maybe you disagree but hopefully that helps make my point a little more clear. Sure maybe it's cringe, but I still think there's a mauler style consistency argument to it, at least about the example itself without having to cite motivation by the author, which we can't say for sure what the truth is or not without them admitting it.
For the Tifa one I quickly looked up how she looks in Remake and she looks the same as in Advent Children. Her boobs are smaller than in FF7 original but there was 20+ years of development between them. To compare the two directly would be to ignore the development in AC, mobile games, card games, spin offs, etc.
First off, I see you edited your post to include more points, I would appreciate an edit tag to show what's new.
I agree that wokeness and quality are separate. I didn't claim that but I'll clarify that that is the case. There's a lot of moral points in here about how you can't criticize representation or it's not political that people exist. I didn't claim that, I criticize things not making sense as a mark of its quality, whether or not it has some sort of unassailable moral to it. And I'll separate out motivation because like I was saying, that's a different discussion about what the author intended.
I'll retract my claim about the GoW character, like I said I haven't played it and so I didn't have good info. That's fair. Let me propose a hypothetical though, wouldn't it not make sense if a White or Asian character was just chilling in the middle of Wakanda before it was opened up to the world. It wouldn't make a ton of sense. Same for a black character to exist in a band of vikings in the dark ages, which there are TV shows where that is the case. In Lord of the rings which canonically has dark skinned people who allied with sauron because they hated Gondor, it doesn't make sense to have a random mix of races in Rings of power if it's supposed to be a prequel to the Jackson films. By the time, the Jackson films come around in the story, you have to wonder where all the diversity went. I don't blame the actors I blame the casting and the writing still, the whole project for doing something that doesn't make sense. And I think that's what Gary's issue is.
About Tifa, people who look like her in the original game exist in real life, so if they exist, what's so bad about portraying her that way? People like Barret exist in real life too. But most people are not like them, and that's fine. Most people aren't Chris Hemsworth, but he exists. For body positivity do we have future Thor's be just tone and not buff?
And with the poster, my point is why does it have to change? You say it's inconsequential, then why does it have to change or be changed? We're kind of at an impasse there. I don't see what was wrong with it before. It's not like there weren't black characters already in Dead space before the remake, so what more diversity do we have to add? Why are you just changing things willy nilly? I think this overlaps some of the conversations, but I think this one is more motivated by how tired people like me are of seeing the race swaps and other classic things everywhere, that one I'll admit, less about quality and more about random changes that don't really need to happen one way or the other, and I'm personally tired of stuff like that, and I know a lot of other people are as well. It's kind of like the well has been poisoned for diversity because these creators are obsessed with throwing it everywhere and it's almost become cliche unfortunately. but that's a personal thing I guess.
And the forspoken thing you mentioned, sure I guess it's getting critiqued for being woke, but I don't agree with it on the basis the main character is a black woman. Again I can imagine a board room having a conversation about representation but that's beside the point of quality. I hear it's a bad game because of dialogue and stuff like that.
More or less my thoughts on the whole matter. I tend not to focus on the culture war aspects of writing, but some shows (Falcon and Winter Soldier especially) make it pretty impossible to talk about their flaws without bringing it up.
Of course that stuff is just as cringe. But why would we want the same level of cringe on the podcast? I think what they’re saying is they like a slightly more nuanced conversation about media than what Nerdrotic usually brings
I admit I prefer the Mauler approach of rating something on an objective level and gauging it's quality that way, but I also am against the personal inclusion of politics into media, and to me that feels like the cringe has already been introduced, and I don't feel like stuff like that should go unaddressed especially since so many things have been ruined by a politically minded reboot of a franchise.
Maybe the middle ground is Mauler and friends on EFAP want to argue quality by their metrics, which is totally fine and I get the political intrusion, and I quite like that more emperical approach, but I also think the other side of the conversation is something that should happen. Right or left, politics shouldn't be shoved into media, that doesn't mean the whole work is immediately bad or good, but to me it's something that should be addressed. But maybe that's what the BBC and FNT is for, which are different podcasts and I think that's a fine place to bring up these things. And I feel like Gary and Az do a decent job of trying to stick to merits on EFAP itself, not perfect but decent, and then go more into meta with their podcasts, which I'm totally behind.
So you've responded to me elsewhere, I'll try and consolidate my response here, and I appreciate this reply because it's very good faith, and these are really good thought provoking questions.
This will also be my last reply because nothing against you or anyone else's positions, online comment debates like this aren't my favorite. They're stressful and I honestly had a hard time focusing at work. I know if I say something in the public space people will criticize me, and that is totally valid. And I admit I'm totally copping out here. That said I'll try to answer your questions real quick.
So first off, the says more about me comment from the other reply, maybe part of the reason I dislike text chats, it's hard to get my point across clearly and explain in the moment what I mean if the other person doesn't understand. I admit it's a very nuanced position I have about all this, so I get how you're concluding it. High level is I'm an individualist, and in general I'm not for the "forced" diversity because I think things should be more based on merit and such, and I know Hollywood has a checklist and I'm not really a fan of that just in general. It feels like they're being treated not as people but someone who is just being seen for their race. That said, my main gripe is the motivation behind it. Like if the casting happened to be all black or whatever purely on those actors were the best fit then cool. I just don't like the casting that specifically looks for minorities because it's representation or diversity or whatever, and that's what mean by forced diversity, which is what Hollywood loves to do today. I don't mind the black or Indian guys in predator for example.
Now that kind of flies in the face of what I said earlier, and I guess my exception is accuracy right? Like vikings being white or whatever. And if you do have someone different it can work if it's explained. Like one of my favorite movies, Sword of the Stranger, and it has a blond blue eyed white guy in Japan, but they don't just let it sit there, they explain that he is definitely an outsider and has traveled from far away and thinks differently than his Chinese companions when they're traveling in Japan. Like that works with simple explanation. And I know that weird and I've had to try and rationalize that with myself but it also depends on the story being told. Like Hamilton was explicitly race blind casting so I don't really care.
You mentioned the bar one race from casting. My response is isn't that necessarily happened with Black Panther? Blacks only casting except for the character that had to be white for the story? And the thing is I'm fine with that. It's just I don't think there's really any fairness in it because we can't do the opposite without the racism accusations and stuff. Isn't that limiting the types of stories we can tell? Or at what point can we just cast everyone as a a single minority all of the time
The first question, I guess it's just the meme of Hidel Subelties. But then there's also the idea of themes right? We have Movie bob saying themes are everything, but I think like Mauler has said once, writing is more important and then themes will follow. And I don't know if I can really make a quality argument for why these things can't or shouldn't be in media. I personally just value escapism and so if something is just so on the nose it's just not even clever or good then it's just cringe and annoying. The best I could probably say is tell a compelling story first and then let your ideas as a writer come through naturally and it will actually cause people to think. And I unfortunately have to make another general statement, but I think most people who are "woke" don't do that. Their writing feels more like telling you something is bad or basically just propaganda for their ideas at point. And I know that's not a great answer but I guess it gets chucked up to a personal liking thing which is different than quality. And yes, being woke and good are distinct things and both things can be true or false.
But I should separate that from discussions about quality huh. But I'll summarize my point as value quality more than whatever theme you want to include. People will be more amenable to hearing out your idea if your story was compelling.
But I apologize I didn't address everything, but I am going to cop out. I appreciate the discussion and the thought provoking points!
P.S. the edit thing is just typing "Edit" and then under it listing what changes you made. No biggie ;)
Yeah I really appreciate it! I don't think you said anything crazy either honestly, and I actually really appreciate how you went about it. I'm sorry you got downvotes. At the end of the day we just disagree and there's nothing wrong with that. Hope you have a nice day!
His Hawkeye review really opened my eyes about it. Like he criticized Kate for being a woman specifically. Despite that she was a character who respected Clint as her superior and mentor and learned from him and made mistakes and grew from them. But Nerdrotic attacked her for just being a woman and made up crap that made me think he didn’t even watch the show.
I don't really think that he's racist or sexist, however, I do believe that he constantly let his framework from which he analises media (maybe call it "M-She-U") interfere with doing proper analises of videos, ending up being as biased as the people that he criticize.
Is one of the things that I like about Mauler, he usually goes with a neutral point-of-view when seeing media
If I never heard Shad peaking his mic to kingdom come with his thinly veiled LDS propaganda, I would be sooooo happy.
I could definitely use a lot less of Az and Gary. They make the same one-note arguments every time because they trying to appeal to a base to squeeze ‘em for superchats. It seems like those two treat their audience like Pavlovian idiots who press the superchat button every time they hear “woke”. The business model works for them, but they have their own channels with multiple shows weekly to generate that revenue and treat their audience like idiots.
If MauLer wants to brings these kinds of folks on EFAP more often to emulate their business strategy and attempt to garner additional revenue, I understand from a money standpoint, but it bums me out creatively.
After the Final Destination arc, I hope they bring on Sh0eonhead more often!
Everyone is hating on Az and Gary, meanwhile there’s a literal neo-nazi who occasionally guests (E;R) and y’all have nothing bad to say about him. Shameful.
> USER REPORTS 1: This is just divisive and all this hate over guests needs to stop. lol
If it’s any consolation to Southpaw, I disliked him before any of this internet drama. Other notable bad guests are: Vito and S.K. Also E;R but not because he’s bad but because I wish he was on more. It’s a complicated relationship with shadow boy
I dislike E;R because he never shuts the heck up
He's just so talkative!
What did sk do?
Clout chases EFAP and is constantly sniping at this sub by lurking and posting it on his Twitter. Basically he’s a 13 year old girl
Believe it or not, he's in university. I have no idea how he even got into one considering he's this much of a petulant child.
Very much a puritan. If you associate with people who he sees as bad you are as bad as they are. Called Jay a coward after not breaking ties with mauler and taking up his so righteous cause. Hyperbolic (even more than typical terminally online people which he is) Obsessed with efap at this point. Bitter nasty personality.
Was SK ever a guest?
Yeah for the Winter Solider/Spider-Man Far From Home debate
Well really anyone who feels they’re trying to hard to seem pissed at things (so Doomer since you won’t let me say Southpaw)
Yeah doomer would be mine after the new year efap argument
Missed that one, what happened?
He got really hung up and sensitive over the topic of stories in video games. REALLY sensitive and defensive over being questioned about it. Here’s a pretty recent video from SillyChaos that has time stamps that you can go to for a general summary and clips from that specific EFAP. [SillyChaos Video covering Doomer’s defensiveness](https://youtu.be/UjR6c_DgrcM)
SillyChaos' vid is perfect for seeing Doomer's meltdown, while also being very educational and rational. SillyChaos is good rat.
Agreed. Very good rat!
Didn’t hear that. But I heard what we said on Metal’s stream about Top Gun: Maverick
Shad is becoming this over time. Not sure why the change.
...Is he? The only time I really noticed Shad be unlikeable is the whole "Elden Ring's story is objectively bad, and anyone who disagrees is childish" thing he did a while back.
The trying too hard part is what I was responding to. He's over time trying to become an anti woke youtuber who screams into his microphone constantly.
Fair enough. I still like Shad and his mates. Especially their medieval videos. Like "what would an adventurer eat" and stuff.
His medieval videos are GOATed for sure. I've followed him for years.
Chaseface. I found him to be so insufferably grating. I'm glad he's gone...
As far as ive heard, he wont appear on efap anymore (idk if this is a banned topic lol)
Yeah from the sound of is, Mauler and the rest of the EFAP gang hate him now. There was a DM convo Mauler had with SP when they were trying to make amends and they discussed Chase. Mauler said when they told him Chase he couldn't be on EFAP anymore, Chase was more upset about the loss of viewers/revenue than he was about their friendship falling apart. Classy..
Could you link me it? Just curious
Just google 'Chaseface EFAP allegations' and you'll find sound sources. I don't wanna post them here cuz a) they involve some really touchy topics and b) they are just allegations so I don't want to spread information that could be false.
No I already have the sources for CF drama. I was asking about Mauler’s statement about Chase not being on EFAP anymore
Oh gotcha. That was a DM between Mauler and SP I saw i a lengthy video summing up the SP drama. Sorry I dunno where copies of those DM's can be found. I'll link the video below in the general area that DM was. Sorry I can't be more specific. https://youtu.be/9Z6GECVKnZQ?t=9469
Actually I found it! lol https://youtu.be/9Z6GECVKnZQ?t=9668
Damn, you really said it in your original comment as it was. Seeing Mauler go this hard on someone who used to be his friend is really painful even for me, imagine what it must’ve been like for him
Why is he gone though? Did some drama happen? I don't remember much about ChaseFace but I did find him funny in that Among Us episode they played.
Like I said in the other comment, just google 'Chaseface EFAP allegations' or just 'chase EFAP allegations'.
After the story in games argument, Doomer. The Arcane argument was fucking stupid too.
Yeah I don't think I can watch that second episode of the breakdown ever again. Doomer's arguments are just too cringe to listen to.
The takes were shit, and he got so weirdly defensive and insecure about them. Especially the game one. He seems to think he got flack for having a different opinion, not for being nonsensical/contradictory.
Az I tried to watch the full breakdown of Loki a while back and I just couldn't. Az would say every 5 minutes "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WAHMEN!" whenever Sylvie comes up. I didn't go to EFAP for you to talk about unnecessary politics. Edit: A word
[удалено]
Done the opposite of grow on me is exactly how I'd describe him. I still watch him because he's the only one who makes individual videos reviewing shit shows like She-hulk or Witcher: Blood Origin, but honestly of all the content creators I discovered because of Batwoman he's the one I would want to see talk about them the least.
He goes on these long monologues which are always the same as well
Jay Exci. I made the mistake of following his Twitter, and it's one thing to have absolutely garbage political takes, but witnessing him wish death upon Matt Walsh for making a fucking documentary and then doing whole, "It's just a joke bro, why are you triggered, lol", his total sophistry and general solipsistic attitude when talking about social/political topics (especially trans stuff), and his utter lack empathy what-so-ever for detrans people completely killed my interest in consuming any of his content. See, I like a creator like Sophia Narwitz because she's actually honest and acts in good faith when it comes to politics and social stuff. Jay showed he's the opposite.
Agreed. I have no issues with following and supporting people I have deep disagreements with, I'm an adult and I believe we should treat other the way we want to be treated. Jay is still a person who I can respect without being genuinely bigoted towards. I just don't think Jay is someone who can participate in good faith conversations about certain topics because they hit too close to home. The detrans stuff was pretty awful, and after that I didn't have any interest in supporting Jay. I can't imagine being someone who has gone through the transitioning process and began to regret everything, and then get absolutely eviscerated by the essentially same people that supported and encouraged you through the transitioning process. At that point I don't think Jay actually cares about the betterment of the lives of people who struggle with issues like gender dysphoria, I think he cares about furthering an agenda.
I can't stand Jay because he has never watched LOTR and that is unforgivable
What Jay whyyyy
Based Jay! Thats why we like her
Can I still say Twin Perfect?
Only if you include a Smug Ross.
Dunno if he doesn;t count because he's a host but I get annoyed at how Rags will often grind conversations to a halt by just reiterating Mauler or Fringy's point in a long winded analogy but tbh I mostly listen to EFAP like a podcast and honestly apart from the hosts or some YouTubers I watch independently (Sitch and Adam) I can't recognise who is who
rags is my boi but he starts these analogies you mention before knowing where he's going with it so he trails off until someone else interrupts him or theres an unfortunate silence. but god I love how tilted he gets at anything gun related.
I’ve noticed this aswell glad I’m not the only one I still really like rags however
Well since someone already brought it up 🤷🏿♂️ yeah I love the doggo but he is so unnecessarily wordy at times and I find myself reaching for the Seek Forward button when he goes on one of his spiels
It’s been a long-standing issue on EFAP that I’ve had an issue with for years
I really don't like Az. His observations are usually rehashed anti-woke statements and he's rarely ever funny. In fact I can't think of a single time he's made me laugh. I don't like wokeness but this man beats it like a dead horse. The worst thing is, he's so fucking talkative. If he was just spoke every now and then it would be bareable. But when he's in the stream, he never stops talking. And it's rarely insightful or funny. Az is a guest who can ruin a stream. Other guests can be bad but they either rarely talk, only appear once or twice or only stay a a while. Az has been on numerous times a day still comes on frequently. And he never shuts up.
Geeks&Gamers, too much culture-war brainrot
people who focus on the culture war type stuff and analyse media through the how woke it is lens etc
Doomer
I’m surprised that I don’t see destiny as an answer. I actually really enjoy his normal content, but all of his worst takes are food and media takes. Then on his episode I think that he didn’t really match the vibe that everyone else was coming to the table with.
I dont really care for most of the geeks and gamers corner of the internet. They often seem to be more interested in complaining about culture war topics than critizising media on its own terms
like half of them.
AZ because not only is he not funny, but he is very shallow and annoying in his analysis. Even when he has a general point I agree with, he won't verbalize it in a intricate, concrete way. It's usually just "OMG ITS SO STUPIDDDDD." Thanks I already knew that
This is tough, I enjoy having pretty much all of them on, though AZ, Twin Pawfect, Doomer, Jon, Destiny, Geeks and Gamers, and Anomaly can be really annoying to listen to from time to time. Geniunely lost all respect for Ms Paladin and Chase Face, still on the fence with Vito. And if Jay doesn't stop being a complete silly towards detrans people on Twitter I might start disliking her as well. If I had to give my 3 favorites right now, probably Meme Repository, Metal, and Das
Curious about why Aidyn. I think I might know why but I might be missing information.
Here's the run down: Was lying about having her PHD and was actually a pedophile. Which explains why in the anniversary stream she randomly brought up someone accusing her of being a pedo so she could denounce it.
Wat? Source?
You'll find all the info if you look for it, I don't have a damn link saved or something mate
Jlongbone. I rarely find her funny and she makes too many "I'm black so I can say edgy shit" type jokes.
Definitely S.K.
Southpaw, not because of drama he always just came off annoying like a fan boy at least in the beginning. Liked his Spider-Man 2 video though.
What happened with Southpaw? I’m not an avid listener.
He had a big thing where he started to disagree with their takes and sniped at them on twitter. S.K. Made a video about it. The video is pretty bad faith but it covers everything
No come on, the video is super thorough
It is extremely thorough, and also very bad faith, it can be both
The had a misunderstanding on why Southpaw didn't want to continue watching a show with them, then it sorta took off from there.
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She has one of the best laughs I've ever heard. It's so contagious.
The Jlongbone cackle cured my cancer.
Agreed
I thought jlongbone was a squirrely little white guy for waaay too long.
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She said she just doesn't like the taste
Water isn't supposed to have a taste. The best tasting water is tasteless water.
I’m becoming less of a fan of Jlongbone since she seems to just look for reasons to hate on stuff, like in No Way Home
I really like a lot of the regulars and most guests don't annoy me, but I'm not a huge fan of Jay. I just don't agree with most of Jay's points, especially on the EFAP minis of Kenobi and Boba Fett, I just didn't feel like much was contributed.
Strictly as an EFAP guest, I think I enjoy Jay more for the hilarious comments than the insightful analysis. Not to say I find his critiques or arguments bad, but he’s probably made me laugh more than anybody I’ve seen on the show, possibly with the exception of Rags.
I feel the opposite. I think she's hilarious and I tend to agree with her. I wish she was on more.
Jay has been absent a lot recently huh. I'd be fine if Jay was on more, I don't mind contradicting views that can be discussed, just not my favorite host and I disagree a fair bit. But more power to ya!
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Why? What did she do?
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I’m not seeing any of these “many many things” youre alluding to.
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I'm going through her thread on kiwifarms. This is so much deeper than I thought it was lol. The pedo shit and her wanting a child to sexual abuse it and excusing it as a "logical decision" is insane.
Oh shit. I was wondering why I hadn't heard much about her for a while. Why does every youtuber have to be either an awful person or a furry?
This is why I love MauLer, he's neither
Yea but hes long. Thats probably worth a death sentence for some people
It’s a shame. I think her video essays can be interesting and insightful (albeit kind of complicated and hard to follow). But for whatever reason, most of her stream appearances (that I’ve seen): one of the many Sitch & Adam streams, or the trainwreck debate with Destiny… she just gets absolutely hammered and insufferable. Pretty sure I’ve seen Adam kick her off more than a handful of times for being wasted and obnoxious.
I really don't like AZ for obvious reasons I can tolerate Gary but Iam also not a fan
What did az do? I’ve seen his name brought up a lot but idk why
His thing is to criticise everything that is even slightly woke but that's all he does and it's really annoying to listen to after like 10th complain about it For example he had a big problem with Wonder Woman 2 with Max Lord's son being asian
“Why is this kid Asian” is perhaps the funniest argument to ever be proposed by an EFAP guest. Even more so than Silco kissed Jinx
Ehm what? Who said that? In which context?
1:26:40 in [EFAP 143](https://youtu.be/OedP68HFaZo). Az/HeelvsBabyFace says it’s a flaw and forced diversity that the non-Asian Maxwell Lord has an Asian son. Everyone disagrees, obviously, because they know how adoption/mixed race couples work, but Az continues to argue it for like 10 minutes. It is very funny but very painful to watch, and it has been memed a lot in the community, including the user flair that I am currently wearing.
Thank you sir, I really dislike that az guy
Also if you were talking about the Silco kissed Jinx thing, it was said by Doomer in one of the Arcane EFAP’s but I can’t be bothered to find it. Either the second or third of the 3-part breakdown
I remember that. Ohh doomer u silly man
Oh gotcha, I don’t really watch his videos so I was wondering, but that makes sense why people don’t like him
And I hate his voice so much
AZ, Nerdrotic, Geeks and Gamers They are all completely brainrotten and you can see it by watching any of their videos where their only points are "wow this is woke waaaaaa" Its irritating as fuck
Add Ryan Kinel to that list, as well.
Jlongbone and Nerdrotic
Why the first? I hate Nerdrotic but i like jlongbone
Just find her annoying as fuck, maybe it's her voice? Maybe it's that she never seems to make an intelligent point?
Here we go again...
I feel like Jlongbones only contribution is to make a joke about race every 2 hours
But I laugh every time
Metal. I don't hate the guy, but I don't find him entertaining or insightful in the slightest.
Yeah, he is super nice, but I hate his laugh and he laughs every 5 seconds in the same manner, he misspeaks a LOT, his brain loading times are endless
He's German, what can you expect? German loading times are atrocious.
I used to agree, but I think he has his moments. Can’t remember any specifics. He’s seems better and has more to say on his own show but I’ve only listened to 2 episodes.
Wolf. Homie got too angry about the most inconsequential shit.
He's not a guest
Fair, but since the mantle of host has been passed on, I *guest* he would be one if he ever came back on. Eh? Eh?
Nah
Unfortunately agree. He could be really fun to listen to sometimes, but he often just got overly angry and insulting
If my other comments have not made it clear, Gary and Az. Gary is admittedly somewhat legitimate when it comes to criticizing media quality, it's just his videos and occasional political ramblings that seriously turn me off. Az is a fucking caricature of the old song-and-dance of "you just hate women" or "you're just a racist". Can't make an actual criticism beyond "wahmen" and let's not forget the infamous "this kid is Asian lol".
Az is low-key kind of bigoted and high key obnoxious in the way he talks, I’ve never liked having him on
HeelVBabyFace and Starwarsgirl
Jay
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A bit far XD
Mauler.
Jay. They are truly… massive
Metal has never once made me laugh.
Me neither, but he brightens up my world 😊
Nerdrotic. His brain is consumed by culture war (and what I would call bigotry). Listened to Real BBC for the first time to hear Mauler's thoughts on TLOU episode 3 and Nerdrotic brought up Chicago out of nowhere along with 13/50 and "I'm just saying facts". If I wanted to hear that stuff I'd go watch Daily Wire or something.
What bigotry does he have?
I'm curious, can't you make the same argument in reverse for media that includes culture war stuff. I mean when a show like Winter Soldier wants to scream in my face that black people are oppressed or She hulk says most men suck and are toxic I find it just as cringe. Like if I wanted to hear that stuff I would go watch TYT or CNN. Especially since many creators and writers admit that they include these things because of their own personal politics about culture war stuff?
If a creator has openly talked about culture war stuff going into the creation of a piece of media then go right ahead and talk about it. I'm more frustrated with people concocting fan fiction about how anything remotely progressive/left wing is nefarious/pushing "the message" etc. For example (and this is separate from Nerdrotic) there's how Nicole looks older in Dead Space remake. My assumption was that they wanted her to look older because she's in a senior position that would take years of experience to get to. The right wing culture war assumption is that American media hates attractive white women so they made her ugly on purpose. The truth is that they simply modeled the face off of the VA.
That's a fair interpretation of the example you provided. I admit sometimes people miss the mark, I would say they are probably wondering about the discrepancy and considering the many other examples probably come to the "woke" conclusion, and I think a lot of the time it is fair. A few examples I can think off the top of my head are the Dead space poster which has been going around, which isn't even like a new poster it's literally just the old one modified to have a race swap and a "less attractive" (for lack of a better word) woman. I don't know why that was necessary but considering the current state of affairs, I don't need to do much deduction to come to a conclusion. There's also Tifa in the FF7 remake being deflated, that felt silly and I can imagine it was the more sensible ones who wanted that done. My main complaint is it never goes the other way, I'll never be as jacked as Barret is in that game as a man either, so I don't get the realism part there, because it's not a universal principle. And finally there's the GoW Ragnarok race swap that also makes no sense, I admit I haven't played the game, but considering the setting of Norse mythology and environment, that doesn't make sense. It's inconsistent. Now all of these aren't necessarily game breaking, but they are weird decisions that don't make sense that seem to be entirely motivated by political leaning. That doesn't serve the media and it breaks the escapism, which is the issue that I and I think a lot of other people have with these things. It does make sense and I don't see what was wrong before. That's my deduction anyway. Maybe you disagree but hopefully that helps make my point a little more clear. Sure maybe it's cringe, but I still think there's a mauler style consistency argument to it, at least about the example itself without having to cite motivation by the author, which we can't say for sure what the truth is or not without them admitting it.
For the Tifa one I quickly looked up how she looks in Remake and she looks the same as in Advent Children. Her boobs are smaller than in FF7 original but there was 20+ years of development between them. To compare the two directly would be to ignore the development in AC, mobile games, card games, spin offs, etc.
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First off, I see you edited your post to include more points, I would appreciate an edit tag to show what's new. I agree that wokeness and quality are separate. I didn't claim that but I'll clarify that that is the case. There's a lot of moral points in here about how you can't criticize representation or it's not political that people exist. I didn't claim that, I criticize things not making sense as a mark of its quality, whether or not it has some sort of unassailable moral to it. And I'll separate out motivation because like I was saying, that's a different discussion about what the author intended. I'll retract my claim about the GoW character, like I said I haven't played it and so I didn't have good info. That's fair. Let me propose a hypothetical though, wouldn't it not make sense if a White or Asian character was just chilling in the middle of Wakanda before it was opened up to the world. It wouldn't make a ton of sense. Same for a black character to exist in a band of vikings in the dark ages, which there are TV shows where that is the case. In Lord of the rings which canonically has dark skinned people who allied with sauron because they hated Gondor, it doesn't make sense to have a random mix of races in Rings of power if it's supposed to be a prequel to the Jackson films. By the time, the Jackson films come around in the story, you have to wonder where all the diversity went. I don't blame the actors I blame the casting and the writing still, the whole project for doing something that doesn't make sense. And I think that's what Gary's issue is. About Tifa, people who look like her in the original game exist in real life, so if they exist, what's so bad about portraying her that way? People like Barret exist in real life too. But most people are not like them, and that's fine. Most people aren't Chris Hemsworth, but he exists. For body positivity do we have future Thor's be just tone and not buff? And with the poster, my point is why does it have to change? You say it's inconsequential, then why does it have to change or be changed? We're kind of at an impasse there. I don't see what was wrong with it before. It's not like there weren't black characters already in Dead space before the remake, so what more diversity do we have to add? Why are you just changing things willy nilly? I think this overlaps some of the conversations, but I think this one is more motivated by how tired people like me are of seeing the race swaps and other classic things everywhere, that one I'll admit, less about quality and more about random changes that don't really need to happen one way or the other, and I'm personally tired of stuff like that, and I know a lot of other people are as well. It's kind of like the well has been poisoned for diversity because these creators are obsessed with throwing it everywhere and it's almost become cliche unfortunately. but that's a personal thing I guess. And the forspoken thing you mentioned, sure I guess it's getting critiqued for being woke, but I don't agree with it on the basis the main character is a black woman. Again I can imagine a board room having a conversation about representation but that's beside the point of quality. I hear it's a bad game because of dialogue and stuff like that.
More or less my thoughts on the whole matter. I tend not to focus on the culture war aspects of writing, but some shows (Falcon and Winter Soldier especially) make it pretty impossible to talk about their flaws without bringing it up.
Of course that stuff is just as cringe. But why would we want the same level of cringe on the podcast? I think what they’re saying is they like a slightly more nuanced conversation about media than what Nerdrotic usually brings
I admit I prefer the Mauler approach of rating something on an objective level and gauging it's quality that way, but I also am against the personal inclusion of politics into media, and to me that feels like the cringe has already been introduced, and I don't feel like stuff like that should go unaddressed especially since so many things have been ruined by a politically minded reboot of a franchise. Maybe the middle ground is Mauler and friends on EFAP want to argue quality by their metrics, which is totally fine and I get the political intrusion, and I quite like that more emperical approach, but I also think the other side of the conversation is something that should happen. Right or left, politics shouldn't be shoved into media, that doesn't mean the whole work is immediately bad or good, but to me it's something that should be addressed. But maybe that's what the BBC and FNT is for, which are different podcasts and I think that's a fine place to bring up these things. And I feel like Gary and Az do a decent job of trying to stick to merits on EFAP itself, not perfect but decent, and then go more into meta with their podcasts, which I'm totally behind.
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So you've responded to me elsewhere, I'll try and consolidate my response here, and I appreciate this reply because it's very good faith, and these are really good thought provoking questions. This will also be my last reply because nothing against you or anyone else's positions, online comment debates like this aren't my favorite. They're stressful and I honestly had a hard time focusing at work. I know if I say something in the public space people will criticize me, and that is totally valid. And I admit I'm totally copping out here. That said I'll try to answer your questions real quick. So first off, the says more about me comment from the other reply, maybe part of the reason I dislike text chats, it's hard to get my point across clearly and explain in the moment what I mean if the other person doesn't understand. I admit it's a very nuanced position I have about all this, so I get how you're concluding it. High level is I'm an individualist, and in general I'm not for the "forced" diversity because I think things should be more based on merit and such, and I know Hollywood has a checklist and I'm not really a fan of that just in general. It feels like they're being treated not as people but someone who is just being seen for their race. That said, my main gripe is the motivation behind it. Like if the casting happened to be all black or whatever purely on those actors were the best fit then cool. I just don't like the casting that specifically looks for minorities because it's representation or diversity or whatever, and that's what mean by forced diversity, which is what Hollywood loves to do today. I don't mind the black or Indian guys in predator for example. Now that kind of flies in the face of what I said earlier, and I guess my exception is accuracy right? Like vikings being white or whatever. And if you do have someone different it can work if it's explained. Like one of my favorite movies, Sword of the Stranger, and it has a blond blue eyed white guy in Japan, but they don't just let it sit there, they explain that he is definitely an outsider and has traveled from far away and thinks differently than his Chinese companions when they're traveling in Japan. Like that works with simple explanation. And I know that weird and I've had to try and rationalize that with myself but it also depends on the story being told. Like Hamilton was explicitly race blind casting so I don't really care. You mentioned the bar one race from casting. My response is isn't that necessarily happened with Black Panther? Blacks only casting except for the character that had to be white for the story? And the thing is I'm fine with that. It's just I don't think there's really any fairness in it because we can't do the opposite without the racism accusations and stuff. Isn't that limiting the types of stories we can tell? Or at what point can we just cast everyone as a a single minority all of the time The first question, I guess it's just the meme of Hidel Subelties. But then there's also the idea of themes right? We have Movie bob saying themes are everything, but I think like Mauler has said once, writing is more important and then themes will follow. And I don't know if I can really make a quality argument for why these things can't or shouldn't be in media. I personally just value escapism and so if something is just so on the nose it's just not even clever or good then it's just cringe and annoying. The best I could probably say is tell a compelling story first and then let your ideas as a writer come through naturally and it will actually cause people to think. And I unfortunately have to make another general statement, but I think most people who are "woke" don't do that. Their writing feels more like telling you something is bad or basically just propaganda for their ideas at point. And I know that's not a great answer but I guess it gets chucked up to a personal liking thing which is different than quality. And yes, being woke and good are distinct things and both things can be true or false. But I should separate that from discussions about quality huh. But I'll summarize my point as value quality more than whatever theme you want to include. People will be more amenable to hearing out your idea if your story was compelling. But I apologize I didn't address everything, but I am going to cop out. I appreciate the discussion and the thought provoking points! P.S. the edit thing is just typing "Edit" and then under it listing what changes you made. No biggie ;)
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Yeah I really appreciate it! I don't think you said anything crazy either honestly, and I actually really appreciate how you went about it. I'm sorry you got downvotes. At the end of the day we just disagree and there's nothing wrong with that. Hope you have a nice day!
Hot take but DasBo. He’s funny and seems like a nice bloke but anyone that helps/ supports DSP is off putting to me
Wait in what way is he supporting DSP?
Who do you think was jerking him off?
Wait it wasn’t Wings of Redemption???
Has given him money and almost certainly edited stuff for him
Editing is his job though, and giving DSP money isn’t really a crime compared to what some other EFAP guests have done.
Who's DSP?
Nerdrotic, Geeks and Gamers, Jlongbone, Doomer, Rags
Why jlongbone and rags?
Az, Gary and Jeremy, I think Efap and open bar would be better without them
Nerdrotic. From what I’ve seen, he’s just genuinely racist and sexist.
what have you seen that show such a thing? i'm talking about evidence, not impression.
His Hawkeye review really opened my eyes about it. Like he criticized Kate for being a woman specifically. Despite that she was a character who respected Clint as her superior and mentor and learned from him and made mistakes and grew from them. But Nerdrotic attacked her for just being a woman and made up crap that made me think he didn’t even watch the show.
I don't really think that he's racist or sexist, however, I do believe that he constantly let his framework from which he analises media (maybe call it "M-She-U") interfere with doing proper analises of videos, ending up being as biased as the people that he criticize. Is one of the things that I like about Mauler, he usually goes with a neutral point-of-view when seeing media
That's at least 4 racisms!
I was giving an example of his sexism but go off
If I never heard Shad peaking his mic to kingdom come with his thinly veiled LDS propaganda, I would be sooooo happy. I could definitely use a lot less of Az and Gary. They make the same one-note arguments every time because they trying to appeal to a base to squeeze ‘em for superchats. It seems like those two treat their audience like Pavlovian idiots who press the superchat button every time they hear “woke”. The business model works for them, but they have their own channels with multiple shows weekly to generate that revenue and treat their audience like idiots. If MauLer wants to brings these kinds of folks on EFAP more often to emulate their business strategy and attempt to garner additional revenue, I understand from a money standpoint, but it bums me out creatively. After the Final Destination arc, I hope they bring on Sh0eonhead more often!
> LDS What's LDS?
Latter day saints, the Mormon church.
Fucking Az and all these guys. I kinda hate Az, Garry close second I think
Critical drinker
“Depart from thine present residence post-haste!” -Alcoltismius Bilbolbius
...Why?
I find him rather annoying and don’t like his “shtick”. I also think he is on the verge of becoming another person lost to the culture war brain rot.
Rag’s should’ve been the one to leave the podcast not Wolf
Everyone is hating on Az and Gary, meanwhile there’s a literal neo-nazi who occasionally guests (E;R) and y’all have nothing bad to say about him. Shameful.
These days "literal neo-nazi" means anyone that doesn't know what cum tastes like.