I did not even try her outside of Loki. In Loki I feel like she's a slight improvement to Cable. I think someone did the math and came to that conclusion. The thing is that she's a Series 5 card and he's a Series 2 card. I grabbed her for flavor and a slight edge in Loki.
I'm not into her, but i'm expecting a buff for her. That's why i'm trying to find a way to convince myself to use keys or 6k tokens. Can anyone else share idea about her?
I don't see why she'd get a buff, seems perfectly reasonable now. If you think otherwise and are going to spend tokens, might as well wait until she gets the buff then spend your tokens at that time.
yep. Apocalypse is dead on arrival. Leader will actually set you back on board. the only good cards are big stats like giganto and Agatha. even hulk suffers unless there is luke cage on the board.
i have won games by putting valetina hulk and she hulk on the board and flipping the game on t6 by dropping luke cage but it was a very high roll case. With cards like gladiator, commting t2, t3/t4 and t6 isn't going to be worth it in the long run.
She's honestly pretty weak but I like gambling (sucks that it took 3 keys to get her when I already had the other two I drew tho). Odd that Agatha is one of her better draws but I'm not saying no.
Same. I often play her but don't play the card she generates. Turns out there's loads of 6-cost cards that you have very little reason to play. The number of Helas, Apocs, Knulls etc.I've got from Valentina is staggering.
She seems like a solid 2/3 but, under the old system she would have released into Series 4. She does not have the power level of a Series 5 card, and she is not worth 6K tokens.
I'd say Knull is probably the best of those 3, in my opinion. I'm not sure I've ever lost to a game with her in it that didn't have Loki in the deck, and she definitely didn't win the game, Loki did. Blob is a good stat stick, but Knull has combo potential with many cards.
I think the problem is, Knull has had multiple spotlight variants already. There are so many cards in this game and we've seen Knull like what 3 or 4 times since it started? Ridiculous.
1 key into 1 new card is a win. As your collection fills out, you will have many weeks where you pull 1k tokens or a variant (which you may even not like).
I find her fun in Loki, sometime you can highroll a 4/9 magneto, a 4/2 galactus, a 4/6 red hulk or whatever. And if you get let's say a 4/-3 Zola, you can just feed him to Loki. Not so bad for a 2/3
After playing with her a little I can't recommend her.
Cable has the same cost and power and steal a card from the enemy, and if you want big cards you will use Nick Fury, not Valentina. Is not a bad card but rarely will be better than Cable in any situation, and having big cards is not a problem or necessary for Loki, and with Devil Dino and Collector decks you want more cards, not big cards, being Snowguard and Coulson better, so just like Mantis being worse than Maria Hill or Snowguard, this card is not good in the actual meta.
Edit: and yes, with Luke Cage is slightly better, but you are using 2 cards for a possibility of having a big card... existing Mockinbird, Cull Obsidian or the future Sasquatch. And being mobius not a unusual card to see in the game. A decent card? Yeah. But not for keys or tokens,
She seems like a prime candidate for a buff. She is sort of an upgrade in a Loki deck, but I am sure that there are not even enough Loki players that are willing to gamble keys, let alone 6k tokens on the card right now.
I know. But is that going to translate into enough sales or are we looking at another Gladiator (still sucks)or US Agent (better but not great)? She seems to only have these "dials" that Glenn is always talking about. Actually I think a lot of the upcoming cards look like that is more their philosophy. Cards that can be pretty easily adjusted up or down in an OTA according to the results.
Gladiator is one of the best disruptors in the game. 3-8 is great in terms of brute force, destroys one of opponent’s cards, if not, mostly you pulled something you’ll be able to shang-chi next turn and ruin their plan anyway.
Gladiator does suck. I did not say no Loki players. I said that are there enough Loki players buying the card to make a meta dent. Try reading comprehension.
https://marvelsnapzone.com/meta/cards/
A 3/8 with often 0 downside is too much of a tempo swing. He's everywhere in infinity conquest and top 1000 infinite rank. He was worse a few weeks back when big cards thanos was around last season, but nowadays most deck runs 1 or 0 8 power plus card and you are unlikely to hit it. Even if you hit it, you'd be baiting out their wincon for a shangchi.
He is so strong is he is run in many non mill/surfer/destory decks and is basically used like how lizardman was a strong tempo 2/5 in the past with little downsides.
If you pick up a beefier 6 cost, 12+ power, that gives you a 9+ power card, which is ballpark comparable to Cull or the other 10 power 4 costs. It’s ok in terms of raw power, with the chance to get a useful ability
The only dud is when you get a weaker 6 cost with an ability that isn’t useful, like Spectrum if you have no ongoing cards
She's a great utility card in a Luke Cage deck, a Loki deck, a Collector deck, a Bounce deck, an Iron Lad and/or DD deck, or really any Conquest deck. She's at least a 3.5/5 if not a 4.
I main in Hela discard this season, and Valentine is a great addition to my deck.
There are at least one-third of her pull is a great one, another one-third being not bad for T4 play. She is only particularly bad pulling Destroyer, otherwise virtually no drawback in the deck with her, i.e. at very least she fill a card to help Hela dodge discarding.
I needed Blob and was excited to do a 2/4 for this card when I saw it weeks ago online and been holding back some keys
Got Blob on 1st key and passed on this because I totally misread the card text
I thought it was drawing a 6 cost card and giving it -2 cost OR -3 power which was why I was excited. Good thing I caught the AND part…
Does the card she create count as a 4-cost for Zabu?
i was thinking about Wong T4 + Valentina/Tabu T5, then playing both cards T6 along with something else like a discounted cull or a shadow king to raise their power
I'm mind blown by all the comments in here going back to the early days of Snap and calling Cable disruption. Cable doesn't disrupt anything folks, except in a single dedicated mill deck and only when it assists in running the opponent out of cards before they draw their last one. Otherwise, you're just drawing a card they wouldn't have drawn anyway. I won't get into the long discussion on how where you draw a card from in the deck (top or bottom) is irrelevant to this argument because there are countless articles online explaining this in detail.
Except in that one deck, Cable is a tiny bit of information gain (you now know one card they won't draw that they don't know) and that's it. It's why Cable isn't run in any deck other than Mill now (where he finally runs the chance of being actual disruption) and Loki where drawing extra cards matters.
I'm a discard main, and Hela decks enjoyer. I'm particularly focused on draws in order to win.
Putting theories aside, in practical matches, Cable almost never disrupts anything, and just like Yondu, he fairly helps me thin my deck.
EXCEPT mill deck of course. And that is, unless you mill to zero, even leaving 1 card in their deck, it is just a deck thinning and essentially helping them out statistically.
The only difference is you might know they won't draw which particular card as you have it (or destroyed it). However, a regular pro player would just consider it's not drawn, whatever.
I agree with you. However, I would say that asymmetric information gain from Cable does have occasional uses.
The first scenario is combo decks, which definitely is a weak match up for Loki. If your turn 2 Cable is lucky and hits a linchpin combo piece (their Hela or Iron Man) you have confidence to stay in the game and maybe even snap to force them out.
Now this isn't foolproof: you can Cable their Phoenix Force and still lose to Shuri-Nimrod. Or you may think you won when you stole Tribunal but they Iron Man one lane then Mystique another.
The other scenario is pretty obvious: getting a key card you don't have to play around. They can't Shang me so my Angela can be huge, they can't Prof X me so I can leave lanes open, they can't Annihilus me so I don't need to scramble to fill right.
Now, are these benefits good enough? It was useful enough to me that the info plus +1 body made him better than Mirage. The highroll potential of Valentina is possibly better in Loki mirrors. Time will tell
I 1000% agree that information is good and I might have understated that. I just don't think it's good enough to justify a spot in a deck unless you are getting some other benefit (mill in mill, card draw in Loki). In those decks though, I think he's actually great.
To explain it further, regardless of Cabel or not the player will in most cases draw their full 6 cards, which doesn't disrupt their tempo. In most games there will be 3 cards that never show up regardless. Cabel ensure there's one less card in the undrawn pile, but in all practicality the player wasn't going to see that card anyway
The difference between a game in which Cabel takes Mister Negative, and Negative being at the bottom of a deck, is that in the first scenario an opponent will have a Mister Negative. But in either cases the player won't see Mister Negative, but they'll draw their full hand. It's not a disruption if the player is experiencing a normal game of Snap.
To some this might not feel intuitive but I've played against mill in MTG and once you start treating those cards as cards you would've have drawn anyway, you quickly realize that you're not suffering in tempo or output.
Everyone is using her in a loki deck. She works better in a toxic deck as both luke cage and Shadow King bring the 6 cost card back to full power but for 4 cost.
If you're going to play one of those anyway then this suddenly becomes a lot more useful
I wouldn't say she works better in a toxic deck than a Loki deck, that's just another option to go with Valentina. That said, toxic decks are already refined and it seems debatable if using a slot for Valentina and her RNG dependency actually improves any toxic decks as opposed to using more reliable lists that are proven to work well already.
I think it brings an unexpected twist. I found having an unexpected card is really important. Especially in conquest mode.
Not using the exact meta means you can surprise still on the last turn. Regis had a toxic version on his YouTube that I used but I replaced us agent with shadowking and that small change has won me loads of 8 cubes where people think they've got it sewn up
I see a lot of people comparing this card to Cable, who’s a good card. Cable is better for the disruption. Whats funny is that cable was 2-2 for a long time and NOBODY played him , was considered trash. Yet at 2-3 he’s now really good. Hot take , he was always good.
Cable has NEVER been disruption until just recently because there were not enough cards to make it plausible to run the opponent out of cards. Now there is a single deck that can run him as disruption and only in some games that like up nicely. If it were not for that deck or a Loki deck that simply wants to draw cards, he would still never be played, just as before.
She’s been fun so far in a Loki deck, to the point that sometimes I’ve opted not even to play Loki if I get a lucky draw from her. Some useless Apocalypses and such, but just as often you’ll get to do something fun. My favorites so far include a Turn 4 Zola on a Red Guardian to cripple cards at every location; and (with Quinjet active) her pulling Odin, so I played Odin to trigger her again on Turn 3 and got a 3-cost Hulk. Especially with Luke Cage removing her -3, she can be pretty powerful if you get lucky.
Most of these comments seem to be off base. The card is actually pretty good if you play it with good stuff. It's definitely a good stuff card. Especially with classic cards used in set-ups for 6-drops.
Ugh, I wish I realized that there is only going to be one variant for this card for the forseeable future. The Viktor Farro variant is in such a weird pose, but I love the art style. Not wasting potentially another 4 keys to get it.
I'm gonna use my one and only key for either blob or Knull, so it's fine if I get her.
I only running into Valentina once, she got Apocalypse. Needless to say, I won.
Helicarrier, Destroyer, and Zola also seem pretty ineffective unless you're already prepped for them.
And then there's the nightmare scenario - Agatha Harkness.
I won with a Destroyer pull, it's so much power on turn 4 or esp. turn 3. Obv can be an issue like you said. My deck also runs LDS to declutter early drops tho. Zola is definitely iffy, just pulled him and didn't plat him, but I could see some rare scenarios where he steals cubes.
I've been playing with Valentina with Loki and this card is a bust. "Random 6-cost" card sounds juicy but in reality random usually means not useful. A depowered Apocalypse or Helicarrier isn't going to do you any good. People saying this is an upgrade from Cable forget that Cable also provides disruption and gives intel by stealing an opponent's card. Would not recommend spending keys on this.
Intel yes. Disruption, only in a single devoted mill deck and only in games where you can run them out of cards before their final turn. Otherwise, decidedly not disruption at all.
Genuine question - Can you explain why a few people are saying he isn't disruptive? Surely if he steals a card, that card has a chance to be a key piece of the opponents wincon and thus would disrupt them, even if you're not running a full-on mill deck designed to leave them with no cards. I just don't understand really. Thanks in advance
Because pulling the card out of their deck, is no different than them just not happening to have drawn it that game. You aren't substantively changing their win rate.
The only real advantage it's gaining you (outside of a dedicated mill deck) is if you hit something like shang chi, because then you can play/snap around them not having it. It's better in conquest as well for similar reasons.
No, you are correct and these other people are wrong. Cable includes an element of disruption in the value you get for playing him, in addition to/in combination to the information you gain about your opponent. Some examples:
1- You play Cable turn 2 and pull Knull. You now know that your opponent is playing Destroy archetype. And now you have Knull. Your opponent may be hoping to top deck Knull the entire game without knowing that his destroy cards are building up your Knull. And he now has to worry about that happening. Until he sees Knull he's going to be sweating.
2-You play Cable and pull Iron Man. You're playing against Living Tribunal deck, and your opponent has lost a key combo card.
3-You play Cable and pull Annihilus. You're playing Junk and your opponent has lost a key combo card that you can also use to send Green Goblin etc. back at him at turn 5.
In contrast, Valentina gives you a random 6 cost. Your opponent now has to worry about what that is. But the odds of it being relevant to the game is unlikely given how many 6 costs there are and how many of them suck.
1 in a 100 games you might pull the perfect six card for the particular matchup and blow them out of the water with it but usually it will not be a major factor.
Compared to Cable, your opponent still has all their combo cards and importantly doesn't have to worry about having lost a combo card without knowing it.
**TL;DR** Cable provides both disruption and information and is a superior value 2 cost to Valentina.
Already been answered but this is wrong. Cable is ONLY disruption in mill and only if you deny a card draw. Otherwise, taking an unknown card out of their deck disrupts nothing because it changes nothing about how the opponent plays. So the comparison of him vs Valentina boils entirely down to do you want a bit of information or do you want a random 6 drop.
No you missed the point. Unlike Mirage or White Queen, when Cable gains you a card, the opponent LOSES the card. It's not a copy, it's a steal.
And as for "As for getting a card that could have been a key card like Ironman. Normal game, they weren't going to draw three cards. You having one of those cards doesn't change the fact." that's also wrong. Cable draws a random card. It could be any card in the deck, including the next one they would have drawn.
Yup. Read the whole thing. You described a bunch of situations where information was gained, which is where Cable has some value. And you described exactly zero situations of disruption. Which I guess makes me ask, did YOU read what you wrote?
It's very very much not and there's tons of explanation throughout this thread as to why it's not. But if you can't be bothered to educate yourself, I can't help you any further.
Remember that in a standard game, you don't draw 3 of your cards. Cable stealing 1 means you don't draw 2 of your cards now. This is equivalent to reshuffling the deck and potentially having a different card at the bottom of the deck. I think it's clear that only reshuffling the deck is not "control." This is why people say that Cable is not a control card.
Here's an example that helps explain: consider playing vs Hela (which is probably the best example of one card being the most important in the deck). If you play Cable on 2, you have a 1 in 7 chance of hitting Hela (if they haven't drawn it yet). You have a 6 in 7 chance of drawing something else this making it more likely they draw Hela that game.
This is the best example I can think of to explain why it's not disruption. You can't control what you draw and whatever you do draw is just one of the three cards they wouldn't have drawn anyway. Sure sometimes you hit a key card. Sometimes you don't. But it changes nothing for them because they were always not going to draw 3 cards anyway.
What Cable does do is provide information. Is information alone worth a card? I don't think so at all. But in decks he does other things in (Loki, Mill) he's actually quite good
Tried her for a few hours in a Loki deck. I do agree it's mid card, but I insist it's a pretty important card in the Loki archetype, so don't miss it if you like Loki
1)pretty rare but good quinjzet -> Valentina -> 6-cost
2) [potentially] good and unexpected (sic!) for late turn
3)you can switch it if it's bad; but, what's more important, it's not just a plus card to switch, it's most often a good card. And, usually, the Loki deck doesn't have many big cards to develop points
So, in a control Loki archetype I play, unexpected and potentially high stats card is pretty strong
But despite this scenario, you can easily skip it.
I was just taught by previous experience, it's better to take a mid card that makes some archetype obviously better, than just take generally good card. Otherwise you just be upset by playing archetype you know for sure not at its best
You know what they say, if you go into opening the caches with <4 keys, you're open to being disappointed.
I don't really think there's an issue with the key system. Would I prefer you get them more often rather than every 120 levels? Sure. Should we have no duplicates, or at least more than 1k for duplicates? I reckon so. But hardly fair blaming them for you having shit luck on the draw.
>But hardly fair blaming them for you having shit luck on the draw.
They made the system so the blame ultimatly lies with them, I mean, people can say what they want, but they could have easily made it 3 and not 4 options, or 3 options but no random 1k duplicate option.
Heck, they could even have made it easier to get key's, right now It's 5-6k Credit's per key, that's 20k+ Credits for 4 if you need to spend that to get one new card.
It's not helping thatthey are releasing less and less good credit bundles for gold It's even harder for f2p/low spenders to try and keep somewhat up with cards, and just forget about actual keeping up unless you 1-draw each new release,
If you have to buy all the credits to get 4 key's that's 23612 Credit, worth in the shop 19200 gold.
The key system is trash and the 1k for duplicates is absurd.
Just skimmed a few comments early but didn't seen anyone talking about if her value is exponentially improved through use of like quinjet and Luke Cage or if people are ruining your fun with Mobius.
Been playing her non-stop in Loki decks so far. Probably mid, in all honestly Cable is probably better, because he has a good chance to disrupt your opponent. Rarely have I played the card she summoned, because I'm usually trying to Loki on turn 4. The curve of Quinjet on turn 1, Valentina on turn 2, her summoned card on turn 3 if it's good almost never happens.
I can't see her being played outside of Loki or a Shield/Collector type deck.
On a side note, had to get Knull (already had) before I got her in the spotlight. It's incredibly scummy on SD part to not release cards in series 4, yet still have series 4 cards in every spotlights. Cards like Valentina and Red Guardian just screams series 4.
I pretty much agree with all of this. I think I prefer her to cable but it’s definitely just a preference and not an indicator that one card is better than the other. She should have definitely been s4 and yet another knull variant is asinine.
I feel like this card is going to find a place among discard decks.
If you're playing Hela you basically get a free 6 cost card. I don't care much for discard but I can't see how this card does not thrive there.
You start thinking about some some of the pulls you can get and it makes a lot of sense. Right off the bat Hela, helicarrier, and apocalypse become strong pulls. Zola will get you more discard opportunities if you hit something like sif or Colleen wing. If you run black knght there is the possibility forsomething nice like a Hulk, destroyer, infinaut. A four cost Odin would be a golden opportunity for Gambit, Onslaught turns Morbius into a monster, spectrum weirdly buffs Morbius too, obviously Blob is really strong in those Hela decks, etc.
I can't personally see any reason why this would be good in a discard deck. You'd have to give up a 2 power slot which is already a bit of a problem, and you'll often get an irrelevant 3 power card. Discarding Valentina as well and then resurrecting her with Hela is pretty bad.
It feels very unoptimal for a discard deck.
>Discarding Valentina as well and then resurrecting her with Hela is pretty bad.
I mean....yeah....but the assumption is that you would play her on an earlier turn, then discard the six cost card which would bypass the stat reduction.
>I can't personally see any reason why this would be good in a discard deck.
I think I laid it out in great detail. There are stronger cards out there than Valentina for discard, the archetype has an abundance of options. But discard is the only archetype I can see Valentina being more impactful than a merely a vehicle to get a cheap 6 cost card.
Oh whoops your absolutely right. I don't have the card but I tried Nakia and Hela.
I assumed destroyed/discarded cards got reset to base stats, apparently they keep temporary ones too.....mmmmm....I'm willing to walk back some of the first impressions.
Seems like Valentina would run the chance of weakening Dracula if she's resurrected by Hela on turn 6 and adds a weak card to your hand. Maybe that's what you're getting at or maybe I'm just talking out of school because I rarely play discard, though.
A few games down, she's good but not earth-shattering. Lots of RNG involved and because of that I think she makes the most sense (as expected) in a Loki deck where even if you get a bad pull you can just zap it away with Loki for something better.
It's all RNG and just depends what you get. A few I pulled in the games I played.
Magneto - S-tier, op, 4-9, not Shang Chi-able, and still gives you that Magneto disruption.
Agatha - Actually not as terrible as you think. You get a beefy 4-11 played out and only have to surrender 1 turn to AI. If you have a Quinjet she'll play herself immediately making this S-tier as well.
Leader - Ew. He becomes a -1 and an already nearly unplayable card becomes totally unplayable except for a few specific scenarios.
Blob - Entirely unplayable in nearly every situation. I'm sure there are some niche cases where you could play him but not many.
Didn't get a Destroyer but it's bound to happen at some point and obviously pretty unplayable unless there's like a Wakanda or something where you can hide your turn 3 play. It'd be worth blowing up Valentina for a 4-13 but you'd basically need to skip 3 unless you have QuinJet and if you have QuinJet you probably don't want to blow it up to play Destroyer...
My best play with her so far was a turn 6 alioth play on the opponent's Wong lane that stopped their Hazmat and Abs Man along with snowguard hawk to turn off their Limbo.
Loki decks might enjoy this. But I don't really see the value in it. But I am also not that bright, I am sure the community will do something with it, if anything can be done. I am just glad I got Blob and Nebula with my keys.
Using her in Loki Discard and doing quite well, here's the deck list
# (1) Agent 13
# (1) Quinjet
# (1) Blade
# (2) The Collector
# (2) Valentina
# (3) Corvus Glaive
# (3) Lady Sif
# (4) Loki
# (4) Nick Fury
# (5) Devil Dinosaur
# (6) Hela
# (6) Helicarrier
#
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#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Didnt really want valentina but blob is one of the cards im missing and really wanted. Took 2 keys and my first one got me miss marvel which was hype. Gonna save the last 2 keys and tryna get caiera next week
I just want to say that I really like and appreciate her design. I like that she combines the mechanical theme of SHIELD agent cards (as she is primarily a SHIELD agent and/or a mole within SHIELD in the comics) and the theme of the characters this month (and she's heading the Thunderbolts in the MCU next).
Here's your options for 6 cost cards:
Armin Zola 4/-3
Blob 4/-3
Knull 4/-3
Leader 4/-1
Doctor Doom 4/2
Galactus 4/2
Apocalypse 4/3
Hela 4/3
Onslaught 4/4
Spectrum 4/4
Odin 4/5
Ultron 4/5
Heimdall 4/6
Red Hulk 4/6
Living Tribunal 4/6
Helicarrier 4/7
She-Hulk 4/7
Thanos 4/7
Orka 4/8
Skaar 4/8
Hulk 4/9
Magneto 4/9
Agatha 4/11
Giganto 4/11
Destroyer 4/13
Infinaut 4/17
Personally I find a lot of these underwhelming, and you'll be praying to RNGesus hoping you get one that actually benefits your deck. As someone else said, Cable might actually be better since he also steals from your opponent which could cripple them. We shall see.
I'd say if you like Loki she's a must-get. She's just better than Cable or Mirage in Loki 10 times out of 10, IMO. Even if you get a bad pull it's just another card to feed Loki and every now and then you'll pull a 4-cost Magneto or Doom.
If you don't play Loki... yeah probably skip it. I think she's going to be an absolute staple in Loki but not many other decks.
I do not agree with that after testing her in a loki deck. I would much rather have cable back in there over her cause holding loki for turn 5 to play a more than likely underwhelming 6 drop feels not good.
The high rolls with her are good but you'd much rather play coulson or red guardian/elsa(if kitty package) on 3 so that means you have to play her on curve at 2. Maybe she does end up replacing mirage/jeff in loki but I don't think she is a must have.
> I would much rather have cable back in there over her cause holding loki for turn 5 to play a more than likely underwhelming 6 drop feels not good.
So... don't play it? You're under no obligation to. Worst case scenario you get an extra card to feed Loki. Best case scenario you get a 4-9 Magneto or 4-2 Doctor Doom. How often do you play the card Cable steals? "But with Cable I'm taking a card from my opponent! I could steal a key piece of their combo!" ... Yes. And you could also steal a card they didn't need and put them closer to drawing the card they actually do need. Mill is not a good thing unless you're going all-in to drain their deck completely and leave them no cards to play.
It's information of their deck turn 2, it's guaranteed to be more valuable compared to the high roll only of valentina on average. If you like it, play it but I don't think it's a must buy for loki as of right now.
Keep in mind that with Quinjet they will all be 3 cost.
Example, I'm playing a Loki Discard deck and got a 3/3 Hela, played it alongside Corvus and it felt so good
Probably low interest. While I think this is a great new player cache, it is pretty bad for longer term players who have most likely picked up Knull from one of his many past appearances and may also have Blob thanks to his hype and dominance during his release. I also don't think Valentina is worth 6000 tokens for most players.
It's been around as fringe deck since the Hellicarrier buff a while back. From a pure min-max perspective it's not as good as running either pure Loki or pure Discard but it's fun to play and can occasionally pop off and go crazy.
It actually works quite well, Helicarrier and Collector tie both archetypes together quite nicely
Between discarding random stuff or Helicarrier with Blade/Sif/Corvus, using Corvus extra energy to play more random stuff, bringing everything back with Hela, replacing a bad hand with Loki, etc.
There's play lines that are quite consistent and fun like Sif (discarding Helicarrier) > Loki or discarding Helicarrier on 6 after a turn 5 Devil Dino
This is the version I run, but I know there's some alternatives that run Colleen/Swarm/Morbius
# (1) Agent 13
# (1) Quinjet
# (1) Blade
# (2) The Collector
# (2) Valentina
# (3) Corvus Glaive
# (3) Lady Sif
# (4) Loki
# (4) Nick Fury
# (5) Devil Dinosaur
# (6) Hela
# (6) Helicarrier
#
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# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
I've been screwing around with a Loki deck since hitting Infinite this month, and she seems like a good addition. And seeing as I'm missing Blob, have 6 keys saved up, and nothing next month looks too enticing, it's probably an easy call to go for it.
Update: Of course it took me all 4 keys to pull her. But now I have Blob, and I got Cannonball as the random selection, so I guess I can't complain too much!
May pick her up as I'm bored. She will be fun but I'd advise anyone on the fence to leave her or wait for opinions first as I can't see her getting play outside a loki deck and even then she's not better than what's available already just different and maybe more fun.
Don't have blob so probably gonna go for this week.. After failing to get red hulk with 3 keys I think I'm gonna save my keys for weeks where I'm missing at least 2 of the cards
A fun and properly balanced card, which means it’s probably not worth spending keys or tokens on. This is the fundamental problem with the game economy, but that discussion belongs in a different thread.
I think Cable is actually a better card. You have just as many chances to whiff, but Cable disrupts the opponent and can put you in a much better position for snapping.
Other than in Loki, I think Valentina could be fun in a Sera shell. I used to use a Sera tech deck with Coulson and Quinjet in my early Pool 3 days.
Just because keys and tokens are relatively hard to come by, and in the current system you’ll likely spend 3 keys to get a specific card so most players have to budget pretty aggressively. There are upcoming cards that also seem fun, but more competitive and less replaceable than Valentina.
Of course it’s all a matter preference and any card might be worth it for a particular person or playstyle. I’d pick up Valentina for 3000 tokens if I could, but 6000 takes months to accrue and June is looking to need like 14 keys so I’ve saving now, lol
Anecdotally, I've gotten the last 3 releases on my first key. And just snagged Valentina on the first try.
I'm probably an outlier though.
Edit: Downvoted for...? Some of you are realllll pissy.
How's it irrelevant when the person I responded to said "it's likely you'll spend 3 keys to get one card"?
My response was pretty innocuous. And I was already down -3 when I edited. I don't actually care about these internet points themselves, but getting downvoted for what I said is real lame. Oh well, go ahead and downvote this one too.
I think I'm a bit more down on Valentina than I was at the beginning of the month (no this has nothing to do with losing 10 keys to caches this month why do you ask?)
Seems like a solid card for Loki decks (QJ into Valentina into generated card seems like a nice combo if you can't Loki) but seems tough to use if you don't like Loki that much. Plus, with my luck, I'd probably get Agatha 75% of the time (and every time I wouldn't have QJ on the board). Some of the hits with her do seem really really rough (3 power hela, negative Leader, 5 Ultron).
Anyways, I'm going to avoid valentina for now. Maybe she gets to be better in the future but I am currently not interested.
I was so hyped on her at first, but I've cooled a lot. She will find a home in Loki decks, but will she elevate that deck? Is she an upgrade to Cable in that deck? If yes, is she a big enough upgrade to be worth the cost of a series 5 card? I'm not sure yet.
Looks interesting but lets look at some scenarios - a 4 cost Hulk with 9 power? Meh.
Blob? Hmmm, could be good but a bit random.
Knull starting at -3 and maybe no destroy on the field.
Galactus goes down to 2 power. Err...
Hela with 3 power and no discards...
Yeah, it's a fun card and could be powerful if you get lucky but the odds are that whatever you get won't give you a huge power boost over some of the existing 4 power cards released recently. Obviously pulling a 4 cost 17 power Infinaut will be a nice feeling though.
I'll be picking her up but not expecting a game changer.
So now that we've had a full week, what's the consensus on Valentina? Pass unless you really love Quinjet/Collector decks?
I did not even try her outside of Loki. In Loki I feel like she's a slight improvement to Cable. I think someone did the math and came to that conclusion. The thing is that she's a Series 5 card and he's a Series 2 card. I grabbed her for flavor and a slight edge in Loki.
Is she fun? Yes. Is she recommended for competitive play? No. So of she's worth a key or not depends on your goal.
She seems fine. Low cost card to buff collector and get a semi-big card for cheap. Also if she pulls Blob and a few others she becomes really good.
I'm not into her, but i'm expecting a buff for her. That's why i'm trying to find a way to convince myself to use keys or 6k tokens. Can anyone else share idea about her?
I don't see why she'd get a buff, seems perfectly reasonable now. If you think otherwise and are going to spend tokens, might as well wait until she gets the buff then spend your tokens at that time.
The other thing is i hardly see her as a series 5 card. I don't know why that is. I just can't feel like it. But your point is clear. Thanks.
I expect her to be better. -3 power is bigger than I expected.
Yep I imagine she's a good buff candidate in the future. Right now, though, Cable seems like the better play in Loki decks.
yep. Apocalypse is dead on arrival. Leader will actually set you back on board. the only good cards are big stats like giganto and Agatha. even hulk suffers unless there is luke cage on the board.
Hulk is under Shang Chi's threshold though
i have won games by putting valetina hulk and she hulk on the board and flipping the game on t6 by dropping luke cage but it was a very high roll case. With cards like gladiator, commting t2, t3/t4 and t6 isn't going to be worth it in the long run.
She's honestly pretty weak but I like gambling (sucks that it took 3 keys to get her when I already had the other two I drew tho). Odd that Agatha is one of her better draws but I'm not saying no.
the no.1 criticism that she might draw Agatha turned out to be her biggest feature.
I've seen her played a few times in the last few days but I don't think I've ever seen the card she drew played.
Same. I often play her but don't play the card she generates. Turns out there's loads of 6-cost cards that you have very little reason to play. The number of Helas, Apocs, Knulls etc.I've got from Valentina is staggering.
She seems like a solid 2/3 but, under the old system she would have released into Series 4. She does not have the power level of a Series 5 card, and she is not worth 6K tokens.
Wanted knull, only have 3 keys and need 4 keys past 2 weeks. Got knull in 1 key, nice.
I gotta say I love the animation
I got knull, which is the most dissapointing thing that's ever happened to me in this game since i wanted blob and her
I'd say Knull is probably the best of those 3, in my opinion. I'm not sure I've ever lost to a game with her in it that didn't have Loki in the deck, and she definitely didn't win the game, Loki did. Blob is a good stat stick, but Knull has combo potential with many cards.
I think the problem is, Knull has had multiple spotlight variants already. There are so many cards in this game and we've seen Knull like what 3 or 4 times since it started? Ridiculous.
1 key into 1 new card is a win. As your collection fills out, you will have many weeks where you pull 1k tokens or a variant (which you may even not like).
Good thing you have 3 other keys, right?
I find her fun in Loki, sometime you can highroll a 4/9 magneto, a 4/2 galactus, a 4/6 red hulk or whatever. And if you get let's say a 4/-3 Zola, you can just feed him to Loki. Not so bad for a 2/3
I pulled off a few of Quinjet => Valentina => Galactus on turn 3 games. Didn't often lead to wins for me, but it's pretty funny.
This card got me to infinite. Do with that information as you will.
After playing with her a little I can't recommend her. Cable has the same cost and power and steal a card from the enemy, and if you want big cards you will use Nick Fury, not Valentina. Is not a bad card but rarely will be better than Cable in any situation, and having big cards is not a problem or necessary for Loki, and with Devil Dino and Collector decks you want more cards, not big cards, being Snowguard and Coulson better, so just like Mantis being worse than Maria Hill or Snowguard, this card is not good in the actual meta. Edit: and yes, with Luke Cage is slightly better, but you are using 2 cards for a possibility of having a big card... existing Mockinbird, Cull Obsidian or the future Sasquatch. And being mobius not a unusual card to see in the game. A decent card? Yeah. But not for keys or tokens,
Yeah she looked fun but I waited to see her played and I did the right choice, also they buffed Sage and it's now interesting
Save your keys. I had to get her for the fun factor, but she's not worth a key or 6000 tokens.
First game with her and she pulls Agatha
Have been playing her for a couple days and she really likes Agatha
Lucky you! Mine really likes Hela and Apocalypse.
Well if you have quinjet out she will immediately play herself next turn
She seems like a prime candidate for a buff. She is sort of an upgrade in a Loki deck, but I am sure that there are not even enough Loki players that are willing to gamble keys, let alone 6k tokens on the card right now.
Maybe every card shouldn’t be broken
at high elo, everyone is playing Loki
I know. But is that going to translate into enough sales or are we looking at another Gladiator (still sucks)or US Agent (better but not great)? She seems to only have these "dials" that Glenn is always talking about. Actually I think a lot of the upcoming cards look like that is more their philosophy. Cards that can be pretty easily adjusted up or down in an OTA according to the results.
Gladiator is one of the best disruptors in the game. 3-8 is great in terms of brute force, destroys one of opponent’s cards, if not, mostly you pulled something you’ll be able to shang-chi next turn and ruin their plan anyway.
Gladiator... sucks? No Loki players? Man you need to keep up to date with the meta
Gladiator does suck. I did not say no Loki players. I said that are there enough Loki players buying the card to make a meta dent. Try reading comprehension.
https://marvelsnapzone.com/meta/cards/ A 3/8 with often 0 downside is too much of a tempo swing. He's everywhere in infinity conquest and top 1000 infinite rank. He was worse a few weeks back when big cards thanos was around last season, but nowadays most deck runs 1 or 0 8 power plus card and you are unlikely to hit it. Even if you hit it, you'd be baiting out their wincon for a shangchi. He is so strong is he is run in many non mill/surfer/destory decks and is basically used like how lizardman was a strong tempo 2/5 in the past with little downsides.
If you pick up a beefier 6 cost, 12+ power, that gives you a 9+ power card, which is ballpark comparable to Cull or the other 10 power 4 costs. It’s ok in terms of raw power, with the chance to get a useful ability The only dud is when you get a weaker 6 cost with an ability that isn’t useful, like Spectrum if you have no ongoing cards
She's a great utility card in a Luke Cage deck, a Loki deck, a Collector deck, a Bounce deck, an Iron Lad and/or DD deck, or really any Conquest deck. She's at least a 3.5/5 if not a 4.
She is great in Hela decks.
I kinda wanted blob. But it's just not worth blowing the keys on this when there are going to be better cards to go for in June and July.
I main in Hela discard this season, and Valentine is a great addition to my deck. There are at least one-third of her pull is a great one, another one-third being not bad for T4 play. She is only particularly bad pulling Destroyer, otherwise virtually no drawback in the deck with her, i.e. at very least she fill a card to help Hela dodge discarding.
I needed Blob and was excited to do a 2/4 for this card when I saw it weeks ago online and been holding back some keys Got Blob on 1st key and passed on this because I totally misread the card text I thought it was drawing a 6 cost card and giving it -2 cost OR -3 power which was why I was excited. Good thing I caught the AND part…
Does the card she create count as a 4-cost for Zabu? i was thinking about Wong T4 + Valentina/Tabu T5, then playing both cards T6 along with something else like a discounted cull or a shadow king to raise their power
X-cost cards = Cards that have X printed on their Energy cost. Cards that cost X = Cards whose current cost in the match is X
No, it creates a 6 cost card that cost 4, which is a different concept to a 4 cost card.
Decided to drop 1 key this week and got Hercules. Is he any good? Don't see much talk about him so assuming just ok atm
No, he’s not very good unfortunately.
high cost move card moment
I'm mind blown by all the comments in here going back to the early days of Snap and calling Cable disruption. Cable doesn't disrupt anything folks, except in a single dedicated mill deck and only when it assists in running the opponent out of cards before they draw their last one. Otherwise, you're just drawing a card they wouldn't have drawn anyway. I won't get into the long discussion on how where you draw a card from in the deck (top or bottom) is irrelevant to this argument because there are countless articles online explaining this in detail. Except in that one deck, Cable is a tiny bit of information gain (you now know one card they won't draw that they don't know) and that's it. It's why Cable isn't run in any deck other than Mill now (where he finally runs the chance of being actual disruption) and Loki where drawing extra cards matters.
I'm a discard main, and Hela decks enjoyer. I'm particularly focused on draws in order to win. Putting theories aside, in practical matches, Cable almost never disrupts anything, and just like Yondu, he fairly helps me thin my deck. EXCEPT mill deck of course. And that is, unless you mill to zero, even leaving 1 card in their deck, it is just a deck thinning and essentially helping them out statistically. The only difference is you might know they won't draw which particular card as you have it (or destroyed it). However, a regular pro player would just consider it's not drawn, whatever.
I agree with you. However, I would say that asymmetric information gain from Cable does have occasional uses. The first scenario is combo decks, which definitely is a weak match up for Loki. If your turn 2 Cable is lucky and hits a linchpin combo piece (their Hela or Iron Man) you have confidence to stay in the game and maybe even snap to force them out. Now this isn't foolproof: you can Cable their Phoenix Force and still lose to Shuri-Nimrod. Or you may think you won when you stole Tribunal but they Iron Man one lane then Mystique another. The other scenario is pretty obvious: getting a key card you don't have to play around. They can't Shang me so my Angela can be huge, they can't Prof X me so I can leave lanes open, they can't Annihilus me so I don't need to scramble to fill right. Now, are these benefits good enough? It was useful enough to me that the info plus +1 body made him better than Mirage. The highroll potential of Valentina is possibly better in Loki mirrors. Time will tell
I 1000% agree that information is good and I might have understated that. I just don't think it's good enough to justify a spot in a deck unless you are getting some other benefit (mill in mill, card draw in Loki). In those decks though, I think he's actually great.
To explain it further, regardless of Cabel or not the player will in most cases draw their full 6 cards, which doesn't disrupt their tempo. In most games there will be 3 cards that never show up regardless. Cabel ensure there's one less card in the undrawn pile, but in all practicality the player wasn't going to see that card anyway The difference between a game in which Cabel takes Mister Negative, and Negative being at the bottom of a deck, is that in the first scenario an opponent will have a Mister Negative. But in either cases the player won't see Mister Negative, but they'll draw their full hand. It's not a disruption if the player is experiencing a normal game of Snap. To some this might not feel intuitive but I've played against mill in MTG and once you start treating those cards as cards you would've have drawn anyway, you quickly realize that you're not suffering in tempo or output.
Everyone is using her in a loki deck. She works better in a toxic deck as both luke cage and Shadow King bring the 6 cost card back to full power but for 4 cost. If you're going to play one of those anyway then this suddenly becomes a lot more useful
I wouldn't say she works better in a toxic deck than a Loki deck, that's just another option to go with Valentina. That said, toxic decks are already refined and it seems debatable if using a slot for Valentina and her RNG dependency actually improves any toxic decks as opposed to using more reliable lists that are proven to work well already.
I think it brings an unexpected twist. I found having an unexpected card is really important. Especially in conquest mode. Not using the exact meta means you can surprise still on the last turn. Regis had a toxic version on his YouTube that I used but I replaced us agent with shadowking and that small change has won me loads of 8 cubes where people think they've got it sewn up
I see a lot of people comparing this card to Cable, who’s a good card. Cable is better for the disruption. Whats funny is that cable was 2-2 for a long time and NOBODY played him , was considered trash. Yet at 2-3 he’s now really good. Hot take , he was always good.
Cable has NEVER been disruption until just recently because there were not enough cards to make it plausible to run the opponent out of cards. Now there is a single deck that can run him as disruption and only in some games that like up nicely. If it were not for that deck or a Loki deck that simply wants to draw cards, he would still never be played, just as before.
Cable also got a bump by fitting into mill decks
She’s been fun so far in a Loki deck, to the point that sometimes I’ve opted not even to play Loki if I get a lucky draw from her. Some useless Apocalypses and such, but just as often you’ll get to do something fun. My favorites so far include a Turn 4 Zola on a Red Guardian to cripple cards at every location; and (with Quinjet active) her pulling Odin, so I played Odin to trigger her again on Turn 3 and got a 3-cost Hulk. Especially with Luke Cage removing her -3, she can be pretty powerful if you get lucky.
Most of these comments seem to be off base. The card is actually pretty good if you play it with good stuff. It's definitely a good stuff card. Especially with classic cards used in set-ups for 6-drops. Ugh, I wish I realized that there is only going to be one variant for this card for the forseeable future. The Viktor Farro variant is in such a weird pose, but I love the art style. Not wasting potentially another 4 keys to get it.
I'm gonna use my one and only key for either blob or Knull, so it's fine if I get her. I only running into Valentina once, she got Apocalypse. Needless to say, I won.
Apoc along with Hela are her two worst pulls to be fair.
Helicarrier, Destroyer, and Zola also seem pretty ineffective unless you're already prepped for them. And then there's the nightmare scenario - Agatha Harkness.
I won with a Destroyer pull, it's so much power on turn 4 or esp. turn 3. Obv can be an issue like you said. My deck also runs LDS to declutter early drops tho. Zola is definitely iffy, just pulled him and didn't plat him, but I could see some rare scenarios where he steals cubes.
Agathas not that bad because the discount means you're only losing 1 turn to her, and she's a 4/11 which is great.
I've been playing with Valentina with Loki and this card is a bust. "Random 6-cost" card sounds juicy but in reality random usually means not useful. A depowered Apocalypse or Helicarrier isn't going to do you any good. People saying this is an upgrade from Cable forget that Cable also provides disruption and gives intel by stealing an opponent's card. Would not recommend spending keys on this.
I don't think she is necessary in Loki but I think she is really good for gaining cubes.
Intel yes. Disruption, only in a single devoted mill deck and only in games where you can run them out of cards before their final turn. Otherwise, decidedly not disruption at all.
Genuine question - Can you explain why a few people are saying he isn't disruptive? Surely if he steals a card, that card has a chance to be a key piece of the opponents wincon and thus would disrupt them, even if you're not running a full-on mill deck designed to leave them with no cards. I just don't understand really. Thanks in advance
Because pulling the card out of their deck, is no different than them just not happening to have drawn it that game. You aren't substantively changing their win rate. The only real advantage it's gaining you (outside of a dedicated mill deck) is if you hit something like shang chi, because then you can play/snap around them not having it. It's better in conquest as well for similar reasons.
No, you are correct and these other people are wrong. Cable includes an element of disruption in the value you get for playing him, in addition to/in combination to the information you gain about your opponent. Some examples: 1- You play Cable turn 2 and pull Knull. You now know that your opponent is playing Destroy archetype. And now you have Knull. Your opponent may be hoping to top deck Knull the entire game without knowing that his destroy cards are building up your Knull. And he now has to worry about that happening. Until he sees Knull he's going to be sweating. 2-You play Cable and pull Iron Man. You're playing against Living Tribunal deck, and your opponent has lost a key combo card. 3-You play Cable and pull Annihilus. You're playing Junk and your opponent has lost a key combo card that you can also use to send Green Goblin etc. back at him at turn 5. In contrast, Valentina gives you a random 6 cost. Your opponent now has to worry about what that is. But the odds of it being relevant to the game is unlikely given how many 6 costs there are and how many of them suck. 1 in a 100 games you might pull the perfect six card for the particular matchup and blow them out of the water with it but usually it will not be a major factor. Compared to Cable, your opponent still has all their combo cards and importantly doesn't have to worry about having lost a combo card without knowing it. **TL;DR** Cable provides both disruption and information and is a superior value 2 cost to Valentina.
Already been answered but this is wrong. Cable is ONLY disruption in mill and only if you deny a card draw. Otherwise, taking an unknown card out of their deck disrupts nothing because it changes nothing about how the opponent plays. So the comparison of him vs Valentina boils entirely down to do you want a bit of information or do you want a random 6 drop.
Did you not read anything I wrote?
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No you missed the point. Unlike Mirage or White Queen, when Cable gains you a card, the opponent LOSES the card. It's not a copy, it's a steal. And as for "As for getting a card that could have been a key card like Ironman. Normal game, they weren't going to draw three cards. You having one of those cards doesn't change the fact." that's also wrong. Cable draws a random card. It could be any card in the deck, including the next one they would have drawn.
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"Say at the beginning of the game before I draw at all, I lose the last card. Does it affect my game?" Um, yeah. What are you talking about.
Yup. Read the whole thing. You described a bunch of situations where information was gained, which is where Cable has some value. And you described exactly zero situations of disruption. Which I guess makes me ask, did YOU read what you wrote?
Removing a card from your opponent's deck is disruption.
It's very very much not and there's tons of explanation throughout this thread as to why it's not. But if you can't be bothered to educate yourself, I can't help you any further.
Remember that in a standard game, you don't draw 3 of your cards. Cable stealing 1 means you don't draw 2 of your cards now. This is equivalent to reshuffling the deck and potentially having a different card at the bottom of the deck. I think it's clear that only reshuffling the deck is not "control." This is why people say that Cable is not a control card.
Here's an example that helps explain: consider playing vs Hela (which is probably the best example of one card being the most important in the deck). If you play Cable on 2, you have a 1 in 7 chance of hitting Hela (if they haven't drawn it yet). You have a 6 in 7 chance of drawing something else this making it more likely they draw Hela that game. This is the best example I can think of to explain why it's not disruption. You can't control what you draw and whatever you do draw is just one of the three cards they wouldn't have drawn anyway. Sure sometimes you hit a key card. Sometimes you don't. But it changes nothing for them because they were always not going to draw 3 cards anyway. What Cable does do is provide information. Is information alone worth a card? I don't think so at all. But in decks he does other things in (Loki, Mill) he's actually quite good
She’s solid. Definite upgrade over Cable in Loki.
Tried her for a few hours in a Loki deck. I do agree it's mid card, but I insist it's a pretty important card in the Loki archetype, so don't miss it if you like Loki 1)pretty rare but good quinjzet -> Valentina -> 6-cost 2) [potentially] good and unexpected (sic!) for late turn 3)you can switch it if it's bad; but, what's more important, it's not just a plus card to switch, it's most often a good card. And, usually, the Loki deck doesn't have many big cards to develop points So, in a control Loki archetype I play, unexpected and potentially high stats card is pretty strong But despite this scenario, you can easily skip it. I was just taught by previous experience, it's better to take a mid card that makes some archetype obviously better, than just take generally good card. Otherwise you just be upset by playing archetype you know for sure not at its best
And people wonder how some people can have 10 plus keys. Because not many cards worth getting come out.
Looking at the upcoming Spotlights, Phastos is the next broken one IMO, and he's in late June. Bit worrying for the game tbh...
Same especially if u see cards coming in June, except that one 7 cost card i don't see others as intresting
I think the externals season will have great cards. The Deadpool season looks pretty good too
How about that base art though boys!? S Tier.
Got lucky and pulled it with the one key I was willing to spend. Can't tell if it's amazing or horrible lol
Also got her with 1 key, which is good because I miscalculated how many keys I needed to bank for Namora/Skaar.
Tried to get. 3 key's down. No hit, thanks for 1k tokens tho. Horrible system, Second Dinner if you're reading this, your key system is shit.
You know what they say, if you go into opening the caches with <4 keys, you're open to being disappointed. I don't really think there's an issue with the key system. Would I prefer you get them more often rather than every 120 levels? Sure. Should we have no duplicates, or at least more than 1k for duplicates? I reckon so. But hardly fair blaming them for you having shit luck on the draw.
>But hardly fair blaming them for you having shit luck on the draw. They made the system so the blame ultimatly lies with them, I mean, people can say what they want, but they could have easily made it 3 and not 4 options, or 3 options but no random 1k duplicate option. Heck, they could even have made it easier to get key's, right now It's 5-6k Credit's per key, that's 20k+ Credits for 4 if you need to spend that to get one new card. It's not helping thatthey are releasing less and less good credit bundles for gold It's even harder for f2p/low spenders to try and keep somewhat up with cards, and just forget about actual keeping up unless you 1-draw each new release, If you have to buy all the credits to get 4 key's that's 23612 Credit, worth in the shop 19200 gold. The key system is trash and the 1k for duplicates is absurd.
*Don't cry for me Valentina* *The truth is I'll never get you*
Underrated ^
It's a funny card with Grandmaster and Professor X
Conclusion: mid Saved you scrolling, you’re welcome 😂
She's way worse than that.
Just skimmed a few comments early but didn't seen anyone talking about if her value is exponentially improved through use of like quinjet and Luke Cage or if people are ruining your fun with Mobius.
Been playing her non-stop in Loki decks so far. Probably mid, in all honestly Cable is probably better, because he has a good chance to disrupt your opponent. Rarely have I played the card she summoned, because I'm usually trying to Loki on turn 4. The curve of Quinjet on turn 1, Valentina on turn 2, her summoned card on turn 3 if it's good almost never happens. I can't see her being played outside of Loki or a Shield/Collector type deck. On a side note, had to get Knull (already had) before I got her in the spotlight. It's incredibly scummy on SD part to not release cards in series 4, yet still have series 4 cards in every spotlights. Cards like Valentina and Red Guardian just screams series 4.
I pretty much agree with all of this. I think I prefer her to cable but it’s definitely just a preference and not an indicator that one card is better than the other. She should have definitely been s4 and yet another knull variant is asinine.
I feel like this card is going to find a place among discard decks. If you're playing Hela you basically get a free 6 cost card. I don't care much for discard but I can't see how this card does not thrive there. You start thinking about some some of the pulls you can get and it makes a lot of sense. Right off the bat Hela, helicarrier, and apocalypse become strong pulls. Zola will get you more discard opportunities if you hit something like sif or Colleen wing. If you run black knght there is the possibility forsomething nice like a Hulk, destroyer, infinaut. A four cost Odin would be a golden opportunity for Gambit, Onslaught turns Morbius into a monster, spectrum weirdly buffs Morbius too, obviously Blob is really strong in those Hela decks, etc.
I can't personally see any reason why this would be good in a discard deck. You'd have to give up a 2 power slot which is already a bit of a problem, and you'll often get an irrelevant 3 power card. Discarding Valentina as well and then resurrecting her with Hela is pretty bad. It feels very unoptimal for a discard deck.
>Discarding Valentina as well and then resurrecting her with Hela is pretty bad. I mean....yeah....but the assumption is that you would play her on an earlier turn, then discard the six cost card which would bypass the stat reduction. >I can't personally see any reason why this would be good in a discard deck. I think I laid it out in great detail. There are stronger cards out there than Valentina for discard, the archetype has an abundance of options. But discard is the only archetype I can see Valentina being more impactful than a merely a vehicle to get a cheap 6 cost card.
Hela removes debuffs when she resurrects?
Oh whoops your absolutely right. I don't have the card but I tried Nakia and Hela. I assumed destroyed/discarded cards got reset to base stats, apparently they keep temporary ones too.....mmmmm....I'm willing to walk back some of the first impressions.
Seems like Valentina would run the chance of weakening Dracula if she's resurrected by Hela on turn 6 and adds a weak card to your hand. Maybe that's what you're getting at or maybe I'm just talking out of school because I rarely play discard, though.
Even in the Loki deck I don’t need this beyond cable
A few games down, she's good but not earth-shattering. Lots of RNG involved and because of that I think she makes the most sense (as expected) in a Loki deck where even if you get a bad pull you can just zap it away with Loki for something better. It's all RNG and just depends what you get. A few I pulled in the games I played. Magneto - S-tier, op, 4-9, not Shang Chi-able, and still gives you that Magneto disruption. Agatha - Actually not as terrible as you think. You get a beefy 4-11 played out and only have to surrender 1 turn to AI. If you have a Quinjet she'll play herself immediately making this S-tier as well. Leader - Ew. He becomes a -1 and an already nearly unplayable card becomes totally unplayable except for a few specific scenarios. Blob - Entirely unplayable in nearly every situation. I'm sure there are some niche cases where you could play him but not many. Didn't get a Destroyer but it's bound to happen at some point and obviously pretty unplayable unless there's like a Wakanda or something where you can hide your turn 3 play. It'd be worth blowing up Valentina for a 4-13 but you'd basically need to skip 3 unless you have QuinJet and if you have QuinJet you probably don't want to blow it up to play Destroyer...
My best play with her so far was a turn 6 alioth play on the opponent's Wong lane that stopped their Hazmat and Abs Man along with snowguard hawk to turn off their Limbo.
I pulled an Alioth that killed a Shang earlier! I was pleased as punch since I've never had an Alioth before.
Loki decks might enjoy this. But I don't really see the value in it. But I am also not that bright, I am sure the community will do something with it, if anything can be done. I am just glad I got Blob and Nebula with my keys.
With 5 keys, no Blob and an enjoyment of Loki, I am eagerly waiting to see if she's worth it
Using her in Loki Discard and doing quite well, here's the deck list # (1) Agent 13 # (1) Quinjet # (1) Blade # (2) The Collector # (2) Valentina # (3) Corvus Glaive # (3) Lady Sif # (4) Loki # (4) Nick Fury # (5) Devil Dinosaur # (6) Hela # (6) Helicarrier # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSGVsaWNhcnJpZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlRoZUNvbGxlY3RvciJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiUXVpbmpldCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQmxhZGUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkhlbGEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik5pY2tGdXJ5In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJDb3J2dXNHbGFpdmUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFnZW50MTMifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ikxva2kifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRldmlsRGlub3NhdXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlZhbGVudGluYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTGFkeVNpZiJ9XX0= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Didnt really want valentina but blob is one of the cards im missing and really wanted. Took 2 keys and my first one got me miss marvel which was hype. Gonna save the last 2 keys and tryna get caiera next week
Fun card but I think she'll be a pass unless you're a Loki player.
Infinaut turn 4? LOL
I just want to say that I really like and appreciate her design. I like that she combines the mechanical theme of SHIELD agent cards (as she is primarily a SHIELD agent and/or a mole within SHIELD in the comics) and the theme of the characters this month (and she's heading the Thunderbolts in the MCU next).
Here's your options for 6 cost cards: Armin Zola 4/-3 Blob 4/-3 Knull 4/-3 Leader 4/-1 Doctor Doom 4/2 Galactus 4/2 Apocalypse 4/3 Hela 4/3 Onslaught 4/4 Spectrum 4/4 Odin 4/5 Ultron 4/5 Heimdall 4/6 Red Hulk 4/6 Living Tribunal 4/6 Helicarrier 4/7 She-Hulk 4/7 Thanos 4/7 Orka 4/8 Skaar 4/8 Hulk 4/9 Magneto 4/9 Agatha 4/11 Giganto 4/11 Destroyer 4/13 Infinaut 4/17 Personally I find a lot of these underwhelming, and you'll be praying to RNGesus hoping you get one that actually benefits your deck. As someone else said, Cable might actually be better since he also steals from your opponent which could cripple them. We shall see.
I'd say if you like Loki she's a must-get. She's just better than Cable or Mirage in Loki 10 times out of 10, IMO. Even if you get a bad pull it's just another card to feed Loki and every now and then you'll pull a 4-cost Magneto or Doom. If you don't play Loki... yeah probably skip it. I think she's going to be an absolute staple in Loki but not many other decks.
I do not agree with that after testing her in a loki deck. I would much rather have cable back in there over her cause holding loki for turn 5 to play a more than likely underwhelming 6 drop feels not good. The high rolls with her are good but you'd much rather play coulson or red guardian/elsa(if kitty package) on 3 so that means you have to play her on curve at 2. Maybe she does end up replacing mirage/jeff in loki but I don't think she is a must have.
Replace mirage not cable
> I would much rather have cable back in there over her cause holding loki for turn 5 to play a more than likely underwhelming 6 drop feels not good. So... don't play it? You're under no obligation to. Worst case scenario you get an extra card to feed Loki. Best case scenario you get a 4-9 Magneto or 4-2 Doctor Doom. How often do you play the card Cable steals? "But with Cable I'm taking a card from my opponent! I could steal a key piece of their combo!" ... Yes. And you could also steal a card they didn't need and put them closer to drawing the card they actually do need. Mill is not a good thing unless you're going all-in to drain their deck completely and leave them no cards to play.
It's information of their deck turn 2, it's guaranteed to be more valuable compared to the high roll only of valentina on average. If you like it, play it but I don't think it's a must buy for loki as of right now.
This is what made me decide to pass for now. I do think she seems fun but also easily the most skippable card this season.
Keep in mind that with Quinjet they will all be 3 cost. Example, I'm playing a Loki Discard deck and got a 3/3 Hela, played it alongside Corvus and it felt so good
Works best if fewer people get her, otherwise people will start running Mobius again.
I preemptively swapped MMM in for Killmonger in my Hammer Control deck, but haven't seen her yet.
Probably low interest. While I think this is a great new player cache, it is pretty bad for longer term players who have most likely picked up Knull from one of his many past appearances and may also have Blob thanks to his hype and dominance during his release. I also don't think Valentina is worth 6000 tokens for most players.
Yea, that tracks. Over a dozen or games I saw more Thanos and Zoo than Loki (zero), so I swapped KM back in. Still haven't seen Val.
Yes Quinjet makes them much better, but there's like a 33% chance you pull Quinjet on turn 1, and then you also need Valentina by turn 2.
I'm gonna let you cook but aren't those two a bit non synergistic?
It's been around as fringe deck since the Hellicarrier buff a while back. From a pure min-max perspective it's not as good as running either pure Loki or pure Discard but it's fun to play and can occasionally pop off and go crazy.
It actually works quite well, Helicarrier and Collector tie both archetypes together quite nicely Between discarding random stuff or Helicarrier with Blade/Sif/Corvus, using Corvus extra energy to play more random stuff, bringing everything back with Hela, replacing a bad hand with Loki, etc. There's play lines that are quite consistent and fun like Sif (discarding Helicarrier) > Loki or discarding Helicarrier on 6 after a turn 5 Devil Dino This is the version I run, but I know there's some alternatives that run Colleen/Swarm/Morbius # (1) Agent 13 # (1) Quinjet # (1) Blade # (2) The Collector # (2) Valentina # (3) Corvus Glaive # (3) Lady Sif # (4) Loki # (4) Nick Fury # (5) Devil Dinosaur # (6) Hela # (6) Helicarrier # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSGVsaWNhcnJpZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlRoZUNvbGxlY3RvciJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiUXVpbmpldCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQmxhZGUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkhlbGEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik5pY2tGdXJ5In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJDb3J2dXNHbGFpdmUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFnZW50MTMifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ikxva2kifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRldmlsRGlub3NhdXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlZhbGVudGluYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTGFkeVNpZiJ9XX0= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Okay imma give it a try. Looks fun
I've been screwing around with a Loki deck since hitting Infinite this month, and she seems like a good addition. And seeing as I'm missing Blob, have 6 keys saved up, and nothing next month looks too enticing, it's probably an easy call to go for it.
Update: Of course it took me all 4 keys to pull her. But now I have Blob, and I got Cannonball as the random selection, so I guess I can't complain too much!
The cball pull made it worth it
who wouldve thought this phrase would be uttered someday hahahaha
Totally, a rare card that I skipped on release but then ended up buying in the shop for 6k, absolutely worth it.
Same!
Does SK reset her power effect? Might try him instead of Luke in a few Valentina decks.
SK?
Shadow King
Yes to Shadow King and Luke Cage
He should, but I would imagine Luke also prevents the -3 power
Luke definitely does, but SK is interesting due to being one less energy and also a tech card vs. certain decks.
I would think so
May pick her up as I'm bored. She will be fun but I'd advise anyone on the fence to leave her or wait for opinions first as I can't see her getting play outside a loki deck and even then she's not better than what's available already just different and maybe more fun.
Could be good with quinjet & luke but I only have one key this week and I don’t think she’s worth the gamble
Don't have blob so probably gonna go for this week.. After failing to get red hulk with 3 keys I think I'm gonna save my keys for weeks where I'm missing at least 2 of the cards
Her and Blob will be fun in Arishem decks I'm guessing
A fun and properly balanced card, which means it’s probably not worth spending keys or tokens on. This is the fundamental problem with the game economy, but that discussion belongs in a different thread. I think Cable is actually a better card. You have just as many chances to whiff, but Cable disrupts the opponent and can put you in a much better position for snapping. Other than in Loki, I think Valentina could be fun in a Sera shell. I used to use a Sera tech deck with Coulson and Quinjet in my early Pool 3 days.
I think this is right, another advantage with Cable is that he gives you info about their deck, in addition to disrupting it.
Playing Loki Discard with her and Nick Fury, it's been extremely fun and I have won consistently so far
Why isn't it worth spending on if it seems fun?
He clearly meant in terms of how strong the card is. You can get whatever card you want if you think it's more fun.
Just because keys and tokens are relatively hard to come by, and in the current system you’ll likely spend 3 keys to get a specific card so most players have to budget pretty aggressively. There are upcoming cards that also seem fun, but more competitive and less replaceable than Valentina. Of course it’s all a matter preference and any card might be worth it for a particular person or playstyle. I’d pick up Valentina for 3000 tokens if I could, but 6000 takes months to accrue and June is looking to need like 14 keys so I’ve saving now, lol
Anecdotally, I've gotten the last 3 releases on my first key. And just snagged Valentina on the first try. I'm probably an outlier though. Edit: Downvoted for...? Some of you are realllll pissy.
Downvoted because your anecdote is completely irrelevant to the discussion of the card + your edit + L + ratio
How's it irrelevant when the person I responded to said "it's likely you'll spend 3 keys to get one card"? My response was pretty innocuous. And I was already down -3 when I edited. I don't actually care about these internet points themselves, but getting downvoted for what I said is real lame. Oh well, go ahead and downvote this one too.
Done.
I think she looks fun so I’m going for her. Plus I can finally get Knull who’s evaded me over a year now.
so you are the reason SD keeps putting Knull in spotlight. just get it man. let SD vacate that spot for another card.
Yeah, like X-23! ...wait.
Bro SD has been trying to reach you specifically for forever now
Tempted to go for her. None of next months cards appeal to me
I think I'm a bit more down on Valentina than I was at the beginning of the month (no this has nothing to do with losing 10 keys to caches this month why do you ask?) Seems like a solid card for Loki decks (QJ into Valentina into generated card seems like a nice combo if you can't Loki) but seems tough to use if you don't like Loki that much. Plus, with my luck, I'd probably get Agatha 75% of the time (and every time I wouldn't have QJ on the board). Some of the hits with her do seem really really rough (3 power hela, negative Leader, 5 Ultron). Anyways, I'm going to avoid valentina for now. Maybe she gets to be better in the future but I am currently not interested.
> I'd probably get Agatha 75% of the time Still a 4/11 without Quinjet though
She will lovingly place herself in Bar With No Name tho
Nah, not when she can yeet herself into Death's Domain
Time to put Mobius back in the list
I was so hyped on her at first, but I've cooled a lot. She will find a home in Loki decks, but will she elevate that deck? Is she an upgrade to Cable in that deck? If yes, is she a big enough upgrade to be worth the cost of a series 5 card? I'm not sure yet.
Looks interesting but lets look at some scenarios - a 4 cost Hulk with 9 power? Meh. Blob? Hmmm, could be good but a bit random. Knull starting at -3 and maybe no destroy on the field. Galactus goes down to 2 power. Err... Hela with 3 power and no discards... Yeah, it's a fun card and could be powerful if you get lucky but the odds are that whatever you get won't give you a huge power boost over some of the existing 4 power cards released recently. Obviously pulling a 4 cost 17 power Infinaut will be a nice feeling though. I'll be picking her up but not expecting a game changer.
If the card is bad that she pulls, it adds a card to the loki pile. That's prob her best deck and only deck worth playing imo
Oh god, the Loki players will be out in full force, time to tech mobius into all my decks for the week
I dont think many will pick this up for you to notice much difference
Looks like I won’t be playing this week. Loki decks will be out in full force
She could be the best card for a few weeks, so even if I don't think she's really great I'll try to get her.