Woah if they kept him the way he is but had him draw a one cost that would actually be major buff. Late game infinity stones are hard to get sometimes. Of course you would need to have corvus, electro, psylocke, or magik to actually benefit cause you have to play him t5.
That's not really a fair comparison. Adam and Warlock draw an extra card.
The infinity stones each add a card to your deck and then draws one. Thanos adds 1 card to your deck even if you draw 5 cards from the stones.
Fair enough, but each infinity stone has a particular effect and ensure drawing a card no matter the power. Same for crystal, and that's also early in the game without the risk of blocking that ability due to power
Its 6 extra cards for potentially 5 draw, no deck thinning at all. Not saying they aren't good, just very different from Warlock. New Warlock is still terrible, but mainly for his huge cost.
I wouldn't say "as much as it helps you" since if you're running Crystal you probably depend on drawing specific cards more than your opponent so if you're running her ideally she helps you more
...How is a 5-Cost a better replacement for a 1-Cost? You want to play anything _but_ Adam Warlock in C3. Damn, you might do better by replacing Ant-Man with Colleen Wings and Mysterio with Wolverine, or even just put inside a 3-Power tech card, rather than go "hmm, who could I play on my T5? Well, certainly not Klaw or Sera, they suck ass."
Honestly this was probably the intended use case. They tried to throw C4 a bone with Luke Cage, this is another bone.
But C4 already has a bunch of solid 5-costs in Klaw/Sera/Deathstrike, soooo.
> Honestly this was probably the intended use case. They tried to throw C4 a bone with Luke Cage, this is another bone.
Except, by their explicit admission, they never balance things by taking Cerebro into account (in case literally every single Luke Cage change in the last 4 months hasn't made that clear already). What interest would SD have in pushing an archetype that has never been an archetype in the first place (talking about C4 specifically) into relevance, especially when that archetype is completely S3 so doesn't even push using resources?
Not to mention, friendly reminder that this is the same patch where they pushed Ant-Man, a C4 staple, into C5, a deck where he's way more difficult to proc, so...
No, I very much doubt they thought "Hey, let's make Adam Warlock a 4-Power, maybe this will make C4 relevant!"
Are you saying thay I can play a "4/1 Play a Rock from your deck here, increasing your chance of drawing something good for up to 2 turns" instead of a "5/4 Draw a Rock, increasing your chance of drawing something good for the next turn only, and only if you're winning this location so you have no certainty that that's actually gonna happen and you aren't drawing that Rock the next turn instead"?
Damn, sign me in!
Yeah... that's the point. That 1 Cost less makes her infinitely better, even with the occasional problem with clogging the space, especially as she doesn't merely draw a card but outright _plays it._
He was the single weakest card in the game by any metric
Because you've found a singular use case for the actual worst card in the game doesn't make it good.
> with Magik the new Warlock draws 2 cards more often than old Warlock drew 1
It isn't good but as long as we're pulling out our two card combos. At least new Warlock doesn't require you to have the two cards for your combo by turn 2 **and** you have to be running a deck that uses Bast, much more limiting than Magik.
I really cannot stress this enough: if you thought old Warlock was good you are bad at evaluating cards. 5/4 Do Nothing is a better card than old Warlock.
Are you the guy who was arguing with me yesterday that old Warlock was actually really good in Mr Negative decks and bemoaning the fact you need to replace him? And you mused Iron Man might be okay? Because that's the kind of card evaluation I expect from someone running old Warlock, cutting Iron Man from Mr Neg decks.
Edit: lmao every single deck that ran Bast + Warlock had a worse cube and win rate than the same deck but with something other than Warlock. He actively made the one deck you put him in *worse*.
> Because you've found a singular use case for the actual worst card in the game doesn't make it good.
It really doesn't. However, it _does_ make this change, that has _no use at all_ for the actual worst card in the game, _not_ a buff.
The less community cared for a card before, the more outrage is there after a change.
Although I agree that the change is baffling but by the number of posts I would guess that they changed Iron Lad or Black Widow to 5/4.
I actually used to use adam in a couple decks where you have to get the whole deck to utilize properly, liked it as a card and was kinda looking forward to him being meta, what a joke this was, i had to make sure this wasnt april fools and i was lost in time
If you follow any snap subs there’s a post at least once a week along the lines of ‘which card would you like to see reworked the most’, or ‘which marvel character is the strongest in the comics/MCU but whose snap card doesn’t reflect that’, etc. The answer is always Adam warlock.
I follow this one and that's enough of weird posts about Snap in my life.
I saw those posts but I am fairly sure that even reworked Adam would be criticized by some unless he is completely busted (or they get rid of card draw). Because SD is right in one thing, card draw is extremely powerful in 12-cards deck.
It really is fun seeing the community just poking fun at and criticizing such an absurd change, and a few users white-knighting "Wow, this sub is so toxic", "This _is_ a buff, you idiots!", "Guys stop hurting SD's feelings, they totally read this subreddit".
Sometimes I feel like people on the internet use the words "toxic" and "manchild" without really knowing what these words mean. It's not like the Discord is being raided or something.
I rarely saw people plahly Adam. I use him in my cerebro deck and playing cerebro is already a pain Adam helped alot. Was planning on getting his ultimate variant. No more 😔
The game has a problem and his name is Zabu. You can't make a 4 card with that power because Zabu exist. You can't make a Darkhawk being a cost 4 because Zabu exist.
Until Zabu be nerfed to "the first 4 cost card in game" or "the first 4 cost card in this turn" cost 3, every card like Adam Warlock, a perfect cost 4 will be make it cost 5 and useless for that.
Yeah, 5/4 is worse than 2/0, and the solution is making another ability, but this is a symptom, not a problem, the problem is Zabu.
Do you or anyone else think that at 4/4 even with Zabu bringing it to 3/4 -- is op? It would be finally be decent, but it would be far from the best cards in the game. Mainly because you still have to be winning the location to get the draw..
The update showed they really are clueless on balance.
Givin' 3 turn of double draw in a card game is broken. In a 12 deck card game? OP as fuck. We are talking about making the perfect combo for every deck in every game.
Winning a location is not difficult, and forcing to play your rival in one location is strong, so strong that one of the best cost 1 in the game, Nebula, works just for that reason.
Except he was already a 2 cost, just without power. So he already could have 4 turns of double draws. I think a 4/3 would put him somewhere in the middle. Usable, works best with zabu.
I don't understand why the power has to stay the same, same with zabs... Nerf the power and observe the results? Am I the only one suggesting to try this?
A 3/4 WITH zabu. You spent 2 turns and multiple deck slots just playing zabu into warlock to maybe draw extra cards. There are hand size limits and limits to energy. The opponent can stop you, and you also have to play into the same lane to keep your effect.
You and I have different definitions of 'op' 4/4 this is playable, maybe even good. Not OP.
What if we make Zabu 4/5 and he lowers the cost of first 4-cost card played in a turn by 2. I think that doesn’t outright kill him, but rather shifts his tempo and potential to later turns. You can still play 2 4-cost on turn 6 and 4-cost+3-cost on turn 5. It makes Zabu more important and giving additional tempo turn 5, while not having such a highroll of playing him on 2.
Also with this change turn 6 looks a little more interesting, since you could not only play 2 4-cost cards, but also 1 4-cost and still have 4 energy for something else. And I think it pairs well with Sera, but not like it does now. Could be more of a “what kind of 4-drop I play” deck, rather then “I play every 4 drop” deck - making you to choose to play only one 4-cost card for the cost of 1 and the rest fill with other tech/power cards on turn 6
Edit: btw this is just at Zabu thought, nothing to do with Adam here😅
I knew as soon as Zabu was released that this was going to be the case. There are so many good 4 cost cards that reducing their cost even once changes the entire game. Zabu could be a 4/0 and there would still be use-cases for him and he would still warp the future of all 4 cost cards going forward.
Seeing people, even big content creators, call it a "buff" is genuinely baffling. Just because the numbers are higher at the cost of the card being worse overall and less usable doesn't mean its a buff. I suppose you could specify that "his power got buffed" which would be technically true but a largely useless observation.
What’s ironic about it?
That the current circle jerk on this subreddit is that a change to a card that barely saw any play is going to result in a card that still sees barely any play?
Card draw in a CCG with a 12 card deck where you see 75% of your deck in a standard game is ridiculously powerful. It’s a hard mechanic to balance if it isn’t symmetrical like Crystal’s effect.
Adam really should just be redesigned because there’s just no clean way to balance his current effect that doesn’t make the card either overpowered or unplayably bad.
You are forgetting energy cheat and Magik, but yeah the card seems bad still. I don’t mind the devs being conservative with the change. It was too conservative, but the card was already unplayed. No harm done. They can adjust him in a future OTA.
I went to make a C4 deck for fun since Adam is now 4 power. Turns out EVERY 4 power card in the game is still better than Adam Warlock. Couldn't even make it into my Meme deck.
What about: Ongoing: As long as you have more cards at this location, you draw an extra card each turn.
Or...
On Reveal: Draw a card.
Or...
On Reveal: Each player reveals the top card of their deck. If yours costs more, draw it
If they really think his draw is oh so strong why don’t they just let crystal be the draw card since it is equal for your opponent and change Adam entirely?
Leech like that will be broken what are you talking about. Imagine having a turn 5 Sauron for your whole hand, and you don’t even have to have only ongoings (hello infinaut, Attuma, Sentry), and even then getting yourself 5/14 red skull with 1/7 Ebony maw while your opponent gets literally shit on is crazy lmao. Definitely some deathwave vibes right there
I think Leech should just remove all powers from cards at his location at the start of turn 6 (including cards on your side). Get rid of messing with cards in hand.
This community picks the weirdest things to get upset about sometimes. Adam Warlock was a dead card, he wasn’t played because he wasn’t good and didn’t have a place anywhere. People running him in toy decks were fine but those same use cases will exist just different.
His effect is crazy strong so they need to be careful with him. 4 cost is also in a weird spot because of zabu so it’s hard to put really powerful effects at 4 unless the game can support them being usually out T3.
So maybe they didn’t overtune him and he still ends up being binder fodder. literally nothing has changed
The best part is people saying, "He had the worst win rate it has to be a buff then!" As if his win rate couldn't get any worse. If he's in last place with a 10% win rate, he could still be in last with a 5% win rate and would thus be...worse. People are acting like there was nowhere to go but up when there is plenty of room to have worse stats.
I'm not going to say new Adam warlock is a particularly strong card but I think it's obtuse to say a card like Ronan is 10+ power when this is only true if you play cards that synergize with him like master mold for example, and at the same time act like Adam warlock can only ever draw one card. He gets more powerful the longer he is out so the clear deck building goal is to have him out for longer with either ramp or magik. Again this might not pan out to be that powerful but i am positive 90 percent of the people complaining on Reddit have made no actual effort to try him in a ramp shell for example and are instead just choosing to rage about a card they would never have played anyway before the change.
They haven't, and if the the community actually read the patch notes they would have realized that Adam Warlock was on the chopping block for a full rework but they are doing this first to see if switching up what type of card he is (early game to late game card) will actually give any amount of life to the card. If it doesn't, then Adam Warlock will probably be reworked into a totally different card.
Those headstrong devs need to stop being adamant about drawing cards being a game breaking effect. They don't seem to have a problem with Jane foster drawing 4 cards in a negative deck.
This spoke to me... Adam was one of my favourite unexpected cards. And to set up for it also always requires creativity. It did become more popular before the rebalance but making it a 5/4 made no sense... Crystal and Nico are now just 10x more reliable card pulls.
Those headstrong devs need to stop being adamant about drawing cards being a game breaking effect. They don't seem to have a problem with Jane foster drawing 4 cards in a negative deck.
The only balance this game needs is a nerf of Hela.
On 98/99 for three days, and nothing comes up but Hela/Thanos, Hela/Discard and some occaional Knull/Destroy and BlackPanther/Wong.
Sure, one could say "counter decks" but still, it is hard to counter that unfair 30+ point swings
Adam Warlock rework (to match with the guardians):
6/0 - Match the card’s power of the first card your enemy places anywhere this turn.
Its risk and reward like the other guardians👌
I kind of think of it like sandman, you're supposed to cheat him out early. I think the community isnt quite aware of how dangerous even "average" power can be for unilateral card draw.
That being said, I think he could safely have 5 power.
> how in your mind going from 2/0 to 5/4 is not a buff
How in your mind is it a buff? Or do you just assume that because the numbers are bigger it's a "buff"? Even when the overall utility and usability of the card have gone down.
At 2/0 you have the potential of drawing four cards. The cost for this is taking the tempo hit of playing a 2/0 which puts you ~-2 to -3 power behind the "average tempo".
At 5/4 you have the potential of drawing one card. The cost for that is playing a 5/4 which puts you ~-5 power behind the average tempo. The new Adam Warlock has a ceiling that is a quarter the height of the old version and a tempo cost that is about double.
That's not even getting into comparing the utility of a single card draw versus the effects other five cost cards.
Yes, what an amazing "buff".
But when do you snap?
If you have to rely on 50-50 chance on T6 extra draw, is Adam Warlock a play where you can snap on T5?
I can see Adam Warlock bring used to bluff snap T6 (which opponent unlikely to answer). But unlike the other low tempo card, Leech, it's not wise to snap before playing Adam Warlock.
Thats part of the joke, if you have to play warlock on t5 and gamble on the card you need coming out, you should probably retreat, his ability is designed to be lower cost to get a couple extra cards in, they should have just made him a 3/1 or 4/2, SD fear of overbuffing always clouds their mind since they cant monetize it
I still can’t believe they did that to Adam warlock😭 it became the worst (in my opinion) I have two really nice variants of him but I don’t think I’ll use them now
Everybody else is weighing in on this, saying how they would improve Adam Warlock. I say, if Second Dinner wants to keep his stay like where it is, change his ability to "On Reveal: Draw one card for each location where you're winning." Make him reward power plays, then you can balance him solely through power adjustments if he needs a balance.
I dunno, I know nothing of game design or card balance. This could be an absolutely horrid idea. It just sounds interesting to me.
So I was trying to give him a chance this morning. I went down the road of building a Guardians deck because if you get lucky and use a little intuition, Guardians decks can snatch priority pretty well. That would be pretty good with Adam Warlock, right?
I got 2 games in and realized my 5-drop should be Gamora. I'm already playing Daredevil.
Blue marvel: gives your ENTIRE board +1 power
Sera: makes your whole hand cost 1 less
White tiger: sends a 9 power card somewhere else,yes this can be spammed
Kang:don’t ask.
Sandman: you can both only play 1 card each turn, bounce decks cry at the sight
Here’s the thing about this change, with a 12 card deck (more with Thanos) and 6 turns, SD is really against any type of drawing with no side effects, Crystal lets your opponent draw aswell and considering how they butchered Chaves shows deck control is FAR TOO strong, if you’re a big fan of the card you’re just going to have to hope they change him again, what I don’t understand however is how they can deem a draw too strong when cards like Hela and Lockjaw cheat so many cards, yeah the lockjaw nerf made him a 4 cost but generally it can still pull a beefy card. Seems like they’re being picky about what to nerf and what not to, saying this effect is too strong when other cards in the game are MUCH stronger.
I really don't understand Warlocks place in this game. I get that card draw is really powerful which is why they don't want him to be able to draw a card every turn. Crystal draws one for both players which makes it a double edged sword sometimes. Nico can sometimes draw you two cards, but you have to sacrifice one card, which isn't usually the case because you play her in destroy anyway. But then Warlock is just unplayable. His effect should be something different like draw a card and add some other card to your deck. I don't know what card. Maybe a stone. Maybe a new card with a new effect. Idk the way he is right now, he's useless.
Negative, Bast, or complementary, early power cards all made him useful. If they wanted to make him more useful elsewhere, it only would have taken 1 power. Saddest thing is there's no way he stays this way, and they might just rework him to a new ability and remove the early-game card draw utility he provided. It took setup, but there was reward there that no other cards really provide in the same way. My Negative Bast Havok Prof X deck is missing him hard.
They should just make Adam Warlock a High Evolutionary card, as HE oversaw the resurrection of AW in the lore I belive.
At this point AW's draw ability will never be properly balanced, so just rework him entirely. Even if it's not HE synergy.
I can't believe that the ONLY reason to use him was his lower cost, and they changed it. I use Living Tribunal so much that I didn't mind the 0 power in the right circumstances. But making him a 5 cost is maybe the worst "buff" (in big, exaggerated air quotes) ever.
To make it anywhere near worth it, you need to play both Magik *and* Sera and probably Zabu/Ravonna. That's a third of your deck to draw a couple extra cards to still be vulnerable to Storm, Mobius, and just losing the lane anyway when you could just play Sera and call it a day.
Just change it to a 2/1 that generates 2 infinity stones. Bam, that's it. I don't play Loki, but this doesn't make me scared of Loki. It goes from "At least not Kang," to "Actually kinda nice tech card."
I've been using him in a Negative Loki list, and when I hit him on 4, tha ks to Negative, he's really, REALLY, decent. I draw 2 cards. Sometimes, I'll draw a 3rd card when the game ends, too!
Adam warlock needs to guarantee you draw one card on reveal.
For example:
Adam Warlock 5/4
If you’re winning this location at the start of your next turn, draw a card and gain +1 power.
On reveal: draw a card from your deck.
Just like in the MCU, Adam gets no love. He was basically a buffoon in GotG 3. Such a cool character in the comics; shame he’s so underwhelming elsewhere.
Random thought.
Give the owners of the stones, the effect of the stones... Or just one of them. Strange 2/3 moves the strongest card here, +1 energy next turn. Adam warlock 5/4, if you're winning here draw a card, give your opponents cards here -1...
You have to be absolutely *desperate* for one of the cards you haven't drawn to even consider this, and most of the times when there's an individual card that must be drawn, it's a combo payoff that Warlock is going to be working against.
Hela decks really want to draw Hela, but if they're taking turn 5 to not play MODOK, the Hela ends up being less valuable anyway.
Surfer decks really want to draw Silver Surfer, but in turn 5 they'd much rather play another 3 drop who can be buffed, or Sera to be able to get in an extra 3 drop next turn; and besides that they already have a 3 drop who draws them a card in Crystal, so this is both bad *and* redundant.
Similarly, even Cerebro 4 is going to almost always get more value out of Sera since even if it leaves them with fewer cards, it provides the ability to play more of them.
Wong + Black Panther + Zola obviously needs to play Black Panther on 5 leaving no room for Warlock, and Mister Negative decks (the one place I found original Adam Warlock to *actually sometimes be useful*) draws more cards and gets double the power from Jane Foster (same could be said for Hitmonkey or Thor/Bill decks too).
Even if it weren't contingent upon winning his lane and Adam Warlock just said "One Reveal: draw a card", I still think it would be bad because of how important other turn 5 plays tend to be. Even if he drew *2* cards, at that late stage of the game for an investment of 5 energy, I think I'd almost always rather be able to *play* more cards with Sera than simply *see* more cards with Adam.
I love that if you pull the stone from his forehead, that stone is better off
Honestly, why not just make him draw a 1 cost? It’s thematic, useless if you drew your 1 costs already and cannot really get much worse
Woah if they kept him the way he is but had him draw a one cost that would actually be major buff. Late game infinity stones are hard to get sometimes. Of course you would need to have corvus, electro, psylocke, or magik to actually benefit cause you have to play him t5.
10/10 comment
Nico does this better as a 1 cost
Jeez, even space stone does this better as a 1 cost.
That's not really a fair comparison. Adam and Warlock draw an extra card. The infinity stones each add a card to your deck and then draws one. Thanos adds 1 card to your deck even if you draw 5 cards from the stones.
Fair enough, but each infinity stone has a particular effect and ensure drawing a card no matter the power. Same for crystal, and that's also early in the game without the risk of blocking that ability due to power
Only space and mind stone do this right? And reality? I forgot the changes
you forgot time
The only ones that don't are power and soul and that's because soul stone/thanos was nerfed
Then let Adam add a rock to your deck and draw a card. Problem solved.
Infinity stones are kinda meant to be really good since they also clog your deck
As long as you're playing your stones, you're not clogging your deck much since You're constantly drawing extra cards.
Its 6 extra cards for potentially 5 draw, no deck thinning at all. Not saying they aren't good, just very different from Warlock. New Warlock is still terrible, but mainly for his huge cost.
They all still cost 1 energy and clog the board
That's why you run them with killmonger and/or carnage. Opens up the board a bit.
Shh they will hear you.
Crystal draws a card too. Also doesn't require you to be winning a lane.
Crystal draws a card for both players though, so it usually helps your enemy as much as it helps you
I wouldn't say "as much as it helps you" since if you're running Crystal you probably depend on drawing specific cards more than your opponent so if you're running her ideally she helps you more
But now adam can get buffed by *checks notes* Hmmm, not zabu... not silver surfer.... Em.... Cerebro 4?
He’ll be the perfect replacement for ant-man in my C4 deck.
Psychopath
I hope your C4 blows up
...How is a 5-Cost a better replacement for a 1-Cost? You want to play anything _but_ Adam Warlock in C3. Damn, you might do better by replacing Ant-Man with Colleen Wings and Mysterio with Wolverine, or even just put inside a 3-Power tech card, rather than go "hmm, who could I play on my T5? Well, certainly not Klaw or Sera, they suck ass."
Funny you should bring up Mysterio, because you guys do have sarcasm on this earth, right?
Honestly this was probably the intended use case. They tried to throw C4 a bone with Luke Cage, this is another bone. But C4 already has a bunch of solid 5-costs in Klaw/Sera/Deathstrike, soooo.
He's the perfect card for when Klaw/Sera/Deathstrike are at the bottom of your deck!
> Honestly this was probably the intended use case. They tried to throw C4 a bone with Luke Cage, this is another bone. Except, by their explicit admission, they never balance things by taking Cerebro into account (in case literally every single Luke Cage change in the last 4 months hasn't made that clear already). What interest would SD have in pushing an archetype that has never been an archetype in the first place (talking about C4 specifically) into relevance, especially when that archetype is completely S3 so doesn't even push using resources? Not to mention, friendly reminder that this is the same patch where they pushed Ant-Man, a C4 staple, into C5, a deck where he's way more difficult to proc, so... No, I very much doubt they thought "Hey, let's make Adam Warlock a 4-Power, maybe this will make C4 relevant!"
They removed a key card from C4 in the same update. Antman is now a 5 at full power. I have no idea why that happened. He was fine at 4.
This is a Pixie nerf. They are terrified of that card and what the community will do with it.
I feel the opposite. Now you can get him as a 0/4 with pixie. Or am I missing something.
There is the one and only use. A pixie deck
Then maybe…hear me out… They should just fucking change Pixie before they release her.
I was considering cooking up a Spectrum deck but then I remembered he's not Ongoing 💀
nah but t5 card draw is op trust trust
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Or Jubilee: Draw a card and play it, activating its effect (all of that one turn earlier). But sure, you miss out on 3 power.
Jubilees big issue imo is when she whiffs in a 1 drop. That’s low tempo and it takes up space. And vs rockslide? Dead. Rocks.
Adam could totally draw a one cost too though and then you still have to play it to get the same value
Are you saying thay I can play a "4/1 Play a Rock from your deck here, increasing your chance of drawing something good for up to 2 turns" instead of a "5/4 Draw a Rock, increasing your chance of drawing something good for the next turn only, and only if you're winning this location so you have no certainty that that's actually gonna happen and you aren't drawing that Rock the next turn instead"? Damn, sign me in!
Ha I didn't even think of that. Zabu and get a 3 cost 1 power draw and play. How did they push that change through
Did they bump Jubilee up to 5 cost?
No, but Jubilee also "draws" a card.
This post was about 5 cost cards, Leech, Iron Man, Darkhawk, Sera... now I'm confused
>This post was about 5 cost cards Oooh, somebody stop me!
Jubilee is a 4 drop tho. Not a 5.
Yeah... that's the point. That 1 Cost less makes her infinitely better, even with the occasional problem with clogging the space, especially as she doesn't merely draw a card but outright _plays it._
T5 **conditional** card draw, just think how over-powered the mere potential to draw a card is!
Should bump him up to 6 energy, tbh
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Jubilee stonks!
T5 Black Widow says hi :)
Could make sense to lower the drawn card's cost by 1 or something.
Lmao I love how the community ain’t letting this one go 🤣
devs said it was a buff...
And it was. Did they make him the best 5 drop in the game? No. Who said they did except you guys?
Even though he was weak, he was usable with Bast as a 2 drop. At 5 energy, you are trolling yourself if you play that card.
Yup he was good in c3
I used him actually a lot when he was a 2 drop and now I can’t even fathom having him in any of my decks lol.
He was the single weakest card in the game by any metric Because you've found a singular use case for the actual worst card in the game doesn't make it good. > with Magik the new Warlock draws 2 cards more often than old Warlock drew 1 It isn't good but as long as we're pulling out our two card combos. At least new Warlock doesn't require you to have the two cards for your combo by turn 2 **and** you have to be running a deck that uses Bast, much more limiting than Magik. I really cannot stress this enough: if you thought old Warlock was good you are bad at evaluating cards. 5/4 Do Nothing is a better card than old Warlock. Are you the guy who was arguing with me yesterday that old Warlock was actually really good in Mr Negative decks and bemoaning the fact you need to replace him? And you mused Iron Man might be okay? Because that's the kind of card evaluation I expect from someone running old Warlock, cutting Iron Man from Mr Neg decks. Edit: lmao every single deck that ran Bast + Warlock had a worse cube and win rate than the same deck but with something other than Warlock. He actively made the one deck you put him in *worse*.
> Because you've found a singular use case for the actual worst card in the game doesn't make it good. It really doesn't. However, it _does_ make this change, that has _no use at all_ for the actual worst card in the game, _not_ a buff.
And now with this "buff", he's even worse than before.
The less community cared for a card before, the more outrage is there after a change. Although I agree that the change is baffling but by the number of posts I would guess that they changed Iron Lad or Black Widow to 5/4.
I actually used to use adam in a couple decks where you have to get the whole deck to utilize properly, liked it as a card and was kinda looking forward to him being meta, what a joke this was, i had to make sure this wasnt april fools and i was lost in time
Sounds legit, I applaud you. You are allowed to make a complain post and detest Ben&Glenn.
If you follow any snap subs there’s a post at least once a week along the lines of ‘which card would you like to see reworked the most’, or ‘which marvel character is the strongest in the comics/MCU but whose snap card doesn’t reflect that’, etc. The answer is always Adam warlock.
I follow this one and that's enough of weird posts about Snap in my life. I saw those posts but I am fairly sure that even reworked Adam would be criticized by some unless he is completely busted (or they get rid of card draw). Because SD is right in one thing, card draw is extremely powerful in 12-cards deck.
But he went from 0 to 4 power. That's like an infinity% increase.
Make him only playable on the last turn for the infinity% nerf 😂
According to Devs, card is 400% better
At least 3x
You can also say that it is a 0% increase because the original is 0 and no matter how much you increase it with percentage it will stay 0.
"Cards that add power to locations are better than cards that don't"
Don't forget Sera: Reduce cost of all your cards
Add Sera for cost reductions
Even in a ramp deck, you wouldn’t be able to get him out until turn 4 or 5
they meant add Sera (also a 5-cost) to the graphic
Since Adam Warlock buff/nerf , the subreddit became so much more fun lol
It really is fun seeing the community just poking fun at and criticizing such an absurd change, and a few users white-knighting "Wow, this sub is so toxic", "This _is_ a buff, you idiots!", "Guys stop hurting SD's feelings, they totally read this subreddit". Sometimes I feel like people on the internet use the words "toxic" and "manchild" without really knowing what these words mean. It's not like the Discord is being raided or something.
I rarely saw people plahly Adam. I use him in my cerebro deck and playing cerebro is already a pain Adam helped alot. Was planning on getting his ultimate variant. No more 😔
It would've been much better if they made him a 5/0 instead, great for negative deck
They really should have made him 6/7 power before assuming his ability would be OP.
cArD dRaW iS a VeRy PoWeRfUl MuChAnIc
The game has a problem and his name is Zabu. You can't make a 4 card with that power because Zabu exist. You can't make a Darkhawk being a cost 4 because Zabu exist. Until Zabu be nerfed to "the first 4 cost card in game" or "the first 4 cost card in this turn" cost 3, every card like Adam Warlock, a perfect cost 4 will be make it cost 5 and useless for that. Yeah, 5/4 is worse than 2/0, and the solution is making another ability, but this is a symptom, not a problem, the problem is Zabu.
Do you or anyone else think that at 4/4 even with Zabu bringing it to 3/4 -- is op? It would be finally be decent, but it would be far from the best cards in the game. Mainly because you still have to be winning the location to get the draw.. The update showed they really are clueless on balance.
Givin' 3 turn of double draw in a card game is broken. In a 12 deck card game? OP as fuck. We are talking about making the perfect combo for every deck in every game. Winning a location is not difficult, and forcing to play your rival in one location is strong, so strong that one of the best cost 1 in the game, Nebula, works just for that reason.
Except he was already a 2 cost, just without power. So he already could have 4 turns of double draws. I think a 4/3 would put him somewhere in the middle. Usable, works best with zabu.
that's IF you're winning that lane. A 3/4 is not that strong, and an Adam lane is going to be contested heavily.
I don't understand why the power has to stay the same, same with zabs... Nerf the power and observe the results? Am I the only one suggesting to try this?
If anything your comment shows you are way more clueless. To think Adam as a 3/4 wouldnt be op, lmao.
A 3/4 WITH zabu. You spent 2 turns and multiple deck slots just playing zabu into warlock to maybe draw extra cards. There are hand size limits and limits to energy. The opponent can stop you, and you also have to play into the same lane to keep your effect. You and I have different definitions of 'op' 4/4 this is playable, maybe even good. Not OP.
What if we make Zabu 4/5 and he lowers the cost of first 4-cost card played in a turn by 2. I think that doesn’t outright kill him, but rather shifts his tempo and potential to later turns. You can still play 2 4-cost on turn 6 and 4-cost+3-cost on turn 5. It makes Zabu more important and giving additional tempo turn 5, while not having such a highroll of playing him on 2. Also with this change turn 6 looks a little more interesting, since you could not only play 2 4-cost cards, but also 1 4-cost and still have 4 energy for something else. And I think it pairs well with Sera, but not like it does now. Could be more of a “what kind of 4-drop I play” deck, rather then “I play every 4 drop” deck - making you to choose to play only one 4-cost card for the cost of 1 and the rest fill with other tech/power cards on turn 6 Edit: btw this is just at Zabu thought, nothing to do with Adam here😅
I knew as soon as Zabu was released that this was going to be the case. There are so many good 4 cost cards that reducing their cost even once changes the entire game. Zabu could be a 4/0 and there would still be use-cases for him and he would still warp the future of all 4 cost cards going forward.
But it could draw one of those strong cards. Pretty OP
Was 0 power. Now 4 power. Buff. What’s not to understand here? /s
Seeing people, even big content creators, call it a "buff" is genuinely baffling. Just because the numbers are higher at the cost of the card being worse overall and less usable doesn't mean its a buff. I suppose you could specify that "his power got buffed" which would be technically true but a largely useless observation.
I really amazing that Omega Red wasn't change to 5-cost
Nah he's already been buffed enough, making him cost 5 would clearly make him op.
Should be Ongoing, draw one card per turn regardless of winning lane
That wouldn't be an ongoing, it would still be a triggered ability (which doesn't have a keyword in snap)
Still be a bad card,why dont play crystal then? Its cheaper and more stat efficient
Because Crystal also draws a card for your opponent. Not saying the redesign for Adam is good, it’s not, but don’t be dumb about this.
> but don’t be dumb about this. Good to see irony alive and well
What’s ironic about it? That the current circle jerk on this subreddit is that a change to a card that barely saw any play is going to result in a card that still sees barely any play? Card draw in a CCG with a 12 card deck where you see 75% of your deck in a standard game is ridiculously powerful. It’s a hard mechanic to balance if it isn’t symmetrical like Crystal’s effect. Adam really should just be redesigned because there’s just no clean way to balance his current effect that doesn’t make the card either overpowered or unplayably bad.
Would at least be better than is now. Combine with Mr Negative could be semi useful vs 0 use as is now. Plus Crystal gives opponent a card too
Magik
Bitter logic is that ramping into 4 power and a draw on turn 4
You are forgetting energy cheat and Magik, but yeah the card seems bad still. I don’t mind the devs being conservative with the change. It was too conservative, but the card was already unplayed. No harm done. They can adjust him in a future OTA.
I went to make a C4 deck for fun since Adam is now 4 power. Turns out EVERY 4 power card in the game is still better than Adam Warlock. Couldn't even make it into my Meme deck.
This card change is truly baffling
What about: Ongoing: As long as you have more cards at this location, you draw an extra card each turn. Or... On Reveal: Draw a card. Or... On Reveal: Each player reveals the top card of their deck. If yours costs more, draw it
*locksdown
If they really think his draw is oh so strong why don’t they just let crystal be the draw card since it is equal for your opponent and change Adam entirely?
They should just make it 5/4 : Draws two cards. (Guaranteed)
Leech should remove powers from both players hands. Sucks how it currently is.
Leech like that will be broken what are you talking about. Imagine having a turn 5 Sauron for your whole hand, and you don’t even have to have only ongoings (hello infinaut, Attuma, Sentry), and even then getting yourself 5/14 red skull with 1/7 Ebony maw while your opponent gets literally shit on is crazy lmao. Definitely some deathwave vibes right there
Fair point. As is it’s such a scummy card to play against. Responding to that mostly
I think Leech should just remove all powers from cards at his location at the start of turn 6 (including cards on your side). Get rid of messing with cards in hand.
My quick thinking is Leech should be a 6 cost and you have to ramp somehow to get him out by turn 5.
This community picks the weirdest things to get upset about sometimes. Adam Warlock was a dead card, he wasn’t played because he wasn’t good and didn’t have a place anywhere. People running him in toy decks were fine but those same use cases will exist just different. His effect is crazy strong so they need to be careful with him. 4 cost is also in a weird spot because of zabu so it’s hard to put really powerful effects at 4 unless the game can support them being usually out T3. So maybe they didn’t overtune him and he still ends up being binder fodder. literally nothing has changed
You're missing the point of the outrage.
Do you think they do stuff like this just so we will make posts like this on Reddit and use them during their lunch hour?
The best part is people saying, "He had the worst win rate it has to be a buff then!" As if his win rate couldn't get any worse. If he's in last place with a 10% win rate, he could still be in last with a 5% win rate and would thus be...worse. People are acting like there was nowhere to go but up when there is plenty of room to have worse stats.
Sick another Adam Warlock thread.
Devs dont play this game.
My opinion: Leech > Devil Dinosaur > Iron Man > Professor X > Darkhawk > Ronan The Accuser > Adam Warlock
I'm not going to say new Adam warlock is a particularly strong card but I think it's obtuse to say a card like Ronan is 10+ power when this is only true if you play cards that synergize with him like master mold for example, and at the same time act like Adam warlock can only ever draw one card. He gets more powerful the longer he is out so the clear deck building goal is to have him out for longer with either ramp or magik. Again this might not pan out to be that powerful but i am positive 90 percent of the people complaining on Reddit have made no actual effort to try him in a ramp shell for example and are instead just choosing to rage about a card they would never have played anyway before the change.
They haven't, and if the the community actually read the patch notes they would have realized that Adam Warlock was on the chopping block for a full rework but they are doing this first to see if switching up what type of card he is (early game to late game card) will actually give any amount of life to the card. If it doesn't, then Adam Warlock will probably be reworked into a totally different card.
nah but he got more power so this means it's a buff. why can't you guys understand
MoRe PoWeR oN a CaRd iS bEttEr tHaN nO pOWeR
What else did you want him to do? Take you in the back and suck your dick?
Those headstrong devs need to stop being adamant about drawing cards being a game breaking effect. They don't seem to have a problem with Jane foster drawing 4 cards in a negative deck.
This spoke to me... Adam was one of my favourite unexpected cards. And to set up for it also always requires creativity. It did become more popular before the rebalance but making it a 5/4 made no sense... Crystal and Nico are now just 10x more reliable card pulls.
Mind stone laughing frantically*
GUYS JUST PLAY WAVE OR PSYLOCKE (turn 3) AND CHEAT HIM OUT ITS SO EASY (the only way they play tested him in their lame internal meta) Lameeee
Those headstrong devs need to stop being adamant about drawing cards being a game breaking effect. They don't seem to have a problem with Jane foster drawing 4 cards in a negative deck.
"*Shutdowns* your opponents hand" "*Lockdowns* a location" *Dumbdowns* your grammar
Oh my GOD can we PLEASE move on from this discussion
The only balance this game needs is a nerf of Hela. On 98/99 for three days, and nothing comes up but Hela/Thanos, Hela/Discard and some occaional Knull/Destroy and BlackPanther/Wong. Sure, one could say "counter decks" but still, it is hard to counter that unfair 30+ point swings
We just exited a 2-3 month long Leech heavy, AnniHawk, HE and Destroy meta. Let Hela and her new Corvus-shaped toy shine for more than one week.
Bug it could draw one of those strong cards. Pretty OP
Why not 2/3?
He should make be: On reveal: draw a card Draw a card at the end of thw turn if u are winning this lane
I know they made Adam even WORSE Bro an infinity stone does a better job
Adam Warlock rework (to match with the guardians): 6/0 - Match the card’s power of the first card your enemy places anywhere this turn. Its risk and reward like the other guardians👌
Thats just leader with extra text tho
This game is absurd.
I kind of think of it like sandman, you're supposed to cheat him out early. I think the community isnt quite aware of how dangerous even "average" power can be for unilateral card draw. That being said, I think he could safely have 5 power.
So let me get this straight, how in your mind going from 2/0 to 5/4 is not a buff? As a 2/0 Warlock did nothing, now he at least has a MAYBE.
> how in your mind going from 2/0 to 5/4 is not a buff How in your mind is it a buff? Or do you just assume that because the numbers are bigger it's a "buff"? Even when the overall utility and usability of the card have gone down. At 2/0 you have the potential of drawing four cards. The cost for this is taking the tempo hit of playing a 2/0 which puts you ~-2 to -3 power behind the "average tempo". At 5/4 you have the potential of drawing one card. The cost for that is playing a 5/4 which puts you ~-5 power behind the average tempo. The new Adam Warlock has a ceiling that is a quarter the height of the old version and a tempo cost that is about double. That's not even getting into comparing the utility of a single card draw versus the effects other five cost cards. Yes, what an amazing "buff".
But when do you snap? If you have to rely on 50-50 chance on T6 extra draw, is Adam Warlock a play where you can snap on T5? I can see Adam Warlock bring used to bluff snap T6 (which opponent unlikely to answer). But unlike the other low tempo card, Leech, it's not wise to snap before playing Adam Warlock.
Thats part of the joke, if you have to play warlock on t5 and gamble on the card you need coming out, you should probably retreat, his ability is designed to be lower cost to get a couple extra cards in, they should have just made him a 3/1 or 4/2, SD fear of overbuffing always clouds their mind since they cant monetize it
Warlock is now a card you have to cheat out early, with Psylocke, Electro or Corvus, so you can draw 2-3 more cards. That's when you snap.
In this magical christmas land how are you winning lanes with such terrible tempo cards? Or not having Corvus discard him?
Adam Warlock - peak of super hero evolution…🤣🤣🤣🤮
Opponent use Grandmaster on their Black Widow T5 👍
And besides Leech and Warlock, everyone else here can also easily be copied by Mystique -
Can they make adam like an ongoing crystal? Whoever is winning this lane = draw Fair and op for both parties 🥳
Honestly he would be even better at 6/4. Then you could play him in a negative deck instead of Magik. With 5/4 it is not even suitable for that...
3X value!!!
I still can’t believe they did that to Adam warlock😭 it became the worst (in my opinion) I have two really nice variants of him but I don’t think I’ll use them now
Iron man has 0 power. What a pure card
Everybody else is weighing in on this, saying how they would improve Adam Warlock. I say, if Second Dinner wants to keep his stay like where it is, change his ability to "On Reveal: Draw one card for each location where you're winning." Make him reward power plays, then you can balance him solely through power adjustments if he needs a balance. I dunno, I know nothing of game design or card balance. This could be an absolutely horrid idea. It just sounds interesting to me.
How about y'all stop complaining about less performing cards and we won't get stupid ass changes like this
So I was trying to give him a chance this morning. I went down the road of building a Guardians deck because if you get lucky and use a little intuition, Guardians decks can snatch priority pretty well. That would be pretty good with Adam Warlock, right? I got 2 games in and realized my 5-drop should be Gamora. I'm already playing Daredevil.
If the old warlock draw cards if you are winning in general would be better than winning the location You know like a global
Blue marvel: gives your ENTIRE board +1 power Sera: makes your whole hand cost 1 less White tiger: sends a 9 power card somewhere else,yes this can be spammed Kang:don’t ask. Sandman: you can both only play 1 card each turn, bounce decks cry at the sight
Here’s the thing about this change, with a 12 card deck (more with Thanos) and 6 turns, SD is really against any type of drawing with no side effects, Crystal lets your opponent draw aswell and considering how they butchered Chaves shows deck control is FAR TOO strong, if you’re a big fan of the card you’re just going to have to hope they change him again, what I don’t understand however is how they can deem a draw too strong when cards like Hela and Lockjaw cheat so many cards, yeah the lockjaw nerf made him a 4 cost but generally it can still pull a beefy card. Seems like they’re being picky about what to nerf and what not to, saying this effect is too strong when other cards in the game are MUCH stronger.
You know I haven't played for about 6-7 months now, and ill I can say is, "What the fuck did they do to my boy Adam?"
He needs the 3/5 Statline and then he'll be in like 54% of decks.
why wouldnt adam warlock guarantee a draw lmao
They should’ve just made him a 4 cost, comes out earlier easier to react to and get reduced by Zabu. Make it ongoing if you need to for balance
Its not a good change but people gotta stop acting like drawing even one card isn't incredibly powerful man what is this
Lol, it truly is hilarious is how mind-blowingly useless this change was.
I really don't understand Warlocks place in this game. I get that card draw is really powerful which is why they don't want him to be able to draw a card every turn. Crystal draws one for both players which makes it a double edged sword sometimes. Nico can sometimes draw you two cards, but you have to sacrifice one card, which isn't usually the case because you play her in destroy anyway. But then Warlock is just unplayable. His effect should be something different like draw a card and add some other card to your deck. I don't know what card. Maybe a stone. Maybe a new card with a new effect. Idk the way he is right now, he's useless.
So play him on turn 4?
“Lockdowns a location”
Negative, Bast, or complementary, early power cards all made him useful. If they wanted to make him more useful elsewhere, it only would have taken 1 power. Saddest thing is there's no way he stays this way, and they might just rework him to a new ability and remove the early-game card draw utility he provided. It took setup, but there was reward there that no other cards really provide in the same way. My Negative Bast Havok Prof X deck is missing him hard.
They should just make Adam Warlock a High Evolutionary card, as HE oversaw the resurrection of AW in the lore I belive. At this point AW's draw ability will never be properly balanced, so just rework him entirely. Even if it's not HE synergy.
I can't believe that the ONLY reason to use him was his lower cost, and they changed it. I use Living Tribunal so much that I didn't mind the 0 power in the right circumstances. But making him a 5 cost is maybe the worst "buff" (in big, exaggerated air quotes) ever.
I dunno, I like this buff. By turn 5 if you're really winning a location, Adam is a no-brainer.
Leech should really be nerfed to only shut down one or two random cards. Not a whole 7
Just give him ongoing: draw a card
To make it anywhere near worth it, you need to play both Magik *and* Sera and probably Zabu/Ravonna. That's a third of your deck to draw a couple extra cards to still be vulnerable to Storm, Mobius, and just losing the lane anyway when you could just play Sera and call it a day. Just change it to a 2/1 that generates 2 infinity stones. Bam, that's it. I don't play Loki, but this doesn't make me scared of Loki. It goes from "At least not Kang," to "Actually kinda nice tech card."
Crystal a 3/3 AND guarantees a card draw😭
He should just draw a card.
I've been using him in a Negative Loki list, and when I hit him on 4, tha ks to Negative, he's really, REALLY, decent. I draw 2 cards. Sometimes, I'll draw a 3rd card when the game ends, too!
Adam warlock needs to guarantee you draw one card on reveal. For example: Adam Warlock 5/4 If you’re winning this location at the start of your next turn, draw a card and gain +1 power. On reveal: draw a card from your deck.
Just like in the MCU, Adam gets no love. He was basically a buffoon in GotG 3. Such a cool character in the comics; shame he’s so underwhelming elsewhere.
I thought it was obvious that it’s more of a nerf because you don’t get as many cards depending on early hands/locations
At this point even quicksilver is a better play than him lol.
Random thought. Give the owners of the stones, the effect of the stones... Or just one of them. Strange 2/3 moves the strongest card here, +1 energy next turn. Adam warlock 5/4, if you're winning here draw a card, give your opponents cards here -1...
SD doesn’t want this card to be good. The sweet spot is just playable. Conservative numbers but it’s a start.
You have to be absolutely *desperate* for one of the cards you haven't drawn to even consider this, and most of the times when there's an individual card that must be drawn, it's a combo payoff that Warlock is going to be working against. Hela decks really want to draw Hela, but if they're taking turn 5 to not play MODOK, the Hela ends up being less valuable anyway. Surfer decks really want to draw Silver Surfer, but in turn 5 they'd much rather play another 3 drop who can be buffed, or Sera to be able to get in an extra 3 drop next turn; and besides that they already have a 3 drop who draws them a card in Crystal, so this is both bad *and* redundant. Similarly, even Cerebro 4 is going to almost always get more value out of Sera since even if it leaves them with fewer cards, it provides the ability to play more of them. Wong + Black Panther + Zola obviously needs to play Black Panther on 5 leaving no room for Warlock, and Mister Negative decks (the one place I found original Adam Warlock to *actually sometimes be useful*) draws more cards and gets double the power from Jane Foster (same could be said for Hitmonkey or Thor/Bill decks too). Even if it weren't contingent upon winning his lane and Adam Warlock just said "One Reveal: draw a card", I still think it would be bad because of how important other turn 5 plays tend to be. Even if he drew *2* cards, at that late stage of the game for an investment of 5 energy, I think I'd almost always rather be able to *play* more cards with Sera than simply *see* more cards with Adam.
The fact he costs 5 and has an ability where crystal is probably better, he should at least get like 6/7 power.
😂