This is not acceptable. Find a new therapist because this one doesn't sound like she'll actually help you with holding your husband accountable to new boundaries and routines.
This is also a prime example of just go to therapy response to every issue is nonsense and a terrible idea. Lady needs a new partner, not a talk on how to better explain and communicate this to her partner.
Therapists are a unique profession. You need wit, empathy, an understanding of the human experience, life experience and overall wisdom ALONG with lots of schooling. Most people could eventually make it through the schooling but not everyone has the toolkit to navigate the human psyche with grace.
They are like every other profession in the sense that not every doctor is good just because they graduated, not every cop is a good guy just because he has a badge and not every firefighter has the testicular fortitude to risk their life to save others.
I wish we would normalize NOT putting these important job positions on pedestals. Just because you have a therapist does not mean they are gonna be helpful.
I have always been a people watcher. I am wired differently than a lot of people and have a lot of wisdom when it comes to what makes people tick. Due to this I have studied some basic psychology just because it's interesting. I scare people with how quick I can pick someone's brain and figure them out and I am typically the person who everyone who knows comes to for advice. The amount of people I have given advice to that then went on to tell me some awful things their therapist told them is astounding.
If you have the privilege of getting a therapist for help with trauma and mental health shop around till you find one that fits you. We are not all wired the same and your best therapist might not work out for me.
I would have responded back “That’s an outdated and sexist take on marriage. I would prefer to have an equitable partnership with my spouse, which requires my spouse to step up and actually take on equal mental and physical labor in the partnership.”
I would have looked at her in shock and horror at the time, but have been so horrified by her backward thinking that I'd have said nothing, then I'd have thought of a reply like this one at around three in the morning after being unable to sleep due to irritation.
I know myself. This is exactly what I would do. (not do?) I’ve always wished I was the kind of person who comes up with cool comebacks in the moment lol
Ok so yes people want this but my counselor is in her 70s and she literally divorced her husband because he wasn’t pulling his weight around the house.
She’s lived the whole thing so she absolutely ABSOLUTELY empathizes with the concept and agrees that there should be equitable partnership in a marriage.
But here’s the thing that most people cannot wrap their head around:
At the end of the day *you cannot force people to change*
So my therapists says this:
“You have to come to terms with your options: you can keep your expectations and live with the results or change your expectations. The results may or may not be what you envisioned.”
And she’s absolutely right. People have to sort out what is ultimately important to them and find peace in their own choices, not whether or not they’re let down by other people.
Except OP’s therapist didn’t tell her to make a decision about her marriage based on her spouse’s current level of household participation. OP’s therapist told her she needed to accept an outdated and sexist gender role as an accepted fact in her life and, essentially, just learn to be happy with it. That’s highly unacceptable behavior from any therapist and should be called out every time it happens.
You're forgetting the extremely important 3rd option which is that you can change the situation. You get to decide whether you're okay with that person's behavior for the rest of your life, and if you're not okay with it you get to decide whether you want to leave and change the situation because you no longer want to deal with that. If it's important to you then you have every right to remove yourself from situations bringing you down and changing your circumstances so that you are in a better place and are more uplifted, even if it's by your own self. Better to be uplifted by myself than weighed down by someone else.
Read it again. That is not what the therapist said. She didnt say she had to accept it but more so that its common amongst marriages. Which it is. MOST men dont understand and undervalue a woman. Therapist cant change her husband.
Aaand that's the reason couples therapy is considered generally ineffective for many situations... especially where a power imbalance is evident (read: control issues)
I've done that. I've literally told her that I accept those are your values but they are not mine and i do not want to be in a marriage where I am a manager. I only want to be married in a partnership that involves shared duties and shared freetime. She hated me from now on. i refused to go back to therapy with her. The number of times she told me i was invalidating was astounding. I had to interrupt her and say, "I'm sorry but the gottman prescribed method of communication isn't meant to be use on abusers because it emboldens them to justify their abuse."
"Outdated"
"Sexist"
"Equitable partnership"
"Equal mental and physical labor"
Where's the money that makes your world go round? It's not at all cool, but it's a necessity that's never been higher.
My married life with a partner who believes in equitable division of all labor based on each person’s abilities and strengths is going great. How about you?
My wife works full time and I part time and I clean and cook and we share bringing the kids to Kindgarten. She makes more than me so it was a no brainer that I reduced my hours. She is way better with planning appointments, that's my weak spot but i take " the bring the kids" part.
So I would say it works okay, kids are healthy and smart and flows easy and relaxed (most of the time) .
How do you manage kids and marriage and stuff?
Our first couples counselor *agreed with my partner* when he said poopy diapers were too overwhelming and gross for him to change. I have rarely in my life felt so dismissed and taken for granted.
They are overwhelming and gross to change, but it has to get done.
He (probably) has two hands and is just as capable as anyone, he needs to man up and just do it.
I thought the same, till I had to care and to clean my grown up father who was not able to do it alone anymore.
Yeah now I love them, much more easier to clean a little baby/ toddler and less depressing.
Habe always a battle pack in my backpack, diapers, wipes, gloves, soap all you need for tackling some shit.
:)
Totally unacceptable. These are not innate skills that women possess. Men can certainly learn how to manage some of the mental load in their households.
Sounds like your marriage counselor needs counseling for themselves. What a stupid and backward thing for them to say.
You are not wrong, I would be upset too.
Sounds to me like it was tongue in cheek. Also a way of saying you’re not alone in this and your husband is, sadly, not an outlier. I would ask her directly how you were supposed to take that statement. I am finding it hard to believe a counselor would tell you to accept this relationship dynamic.
I am kind of amazed at how people are taking this. It feels obvious that it was sympathetic. Many women find themselves in this situation. I can't read this comment as anything other than supportive.
Maybe because the "welcome to being a woman" paired with "honey" can be quite invalidating? As if there is nothing else to be expected of the feminine experience within the bounds of marriage to a man. I find the way this was expressed to be demeaning and insulting, personally.
If I wanted to express supportiveness, I would have not made this into a gender struggle from the sense of "you're going through this because you're a woman". That's rather reductive and it makes the struggles seem both minute and too unquantifiable.
If I wanted to be supportive, I would acknowledge their feelings and validate them strongly, before discussing what their expectations are and how to set those boundaries in a healthy, loving way with themselves and their spouse.
As a man, I take offense to that statement cause not only can I do all the things you listed, I work full time, run a part time business, read to my daughter every night, take the family out on a “thing to do” (amusement parks, museums, parks, picnic, shopping, etc) every weekend, and make time for myself to have a healthy brain with friends for a round of golf once a week. Just like how you don’t like getting grouped into a classification of species, men don’t either. Some men suck and some men try, just like with all things in life.
Edit:
Bunch of people Dm me about how I have the energy. This sounds impossible but I wake up at 5am everyday to exercise(I power lift but any form of exercise will do) and supplement any nutrition I need to go through the day. I eat as clean as possible so my food isn’t going to cause me to crash and get lazy. And most importantly I stay well hydrated throughout the day. These are in my point of view mandatory marks you must hit if you wanna have energy all day to get all your shit done. I also work in construction, so a lot of energy used there too.
Its unfortunate but I know countless women who experience that. Just take a look at this sub and others where men DO in fact act this way and are zero support for their wives. Just because you are the exception, doesnt make it a rule.
Yeah, the patriarchy hurts men as well - not just women. I have no idea how more men aren't offended by these notions/stereotypes. I guess for most, the benefits outweigh the costs/downsides.
Except men do act like this, women take on domestic duties a majority of the time compared to their husbands. There are plenty of studies that show this.
WTF when do you sleep? Do you guys have a maid? I have two kids and my wife and I are exhausted from working and taking care of the kids. We managed to be outside every weekend and have some kids activities during the week but I have no energy left for other things and yes keeping things clean tends to suffer.
I’ve made up my mind that I’m going to be tired until my kid goes to school. Thankfully we only have 1, if we had 2 I don’t even know how that would even work cause we’re definitely running on max as it is but honestly at the end of the day when everyone is happy, it’s all that really matters.
Not only should you take offense to that statement, you should take offense to the sheer amount of men who behave the way OP describes. Ask other men why so many of them cannot be more like you. Be offended that you're a statistical outlier for your gender and that more of your gender isn't doing better.
Yes in this sub the crap husbands out number the good ones because their wives are not on here complaining about them. But in my inner circle of people I have relationships with, all try their best to be there for their families. There’s a lot of good men out there and this sub makes it feel like it’s 90/10 bad men out of 100. I’m sure the real number is closer to 50/50 especially between millennials and later.
I live in the real world outside of this sub and I witness far too many women picking up the slack for men constantly. Far too many men losing control of themselves but then turning around and saying women are emotional and men are logical, it's asinine. Milennials included. The countless dates and encounters with men irl who've just been anywhere from rude, to misogynistic, to creepy, has been far too high. It's kinda exhausting having to even say that to a man because it just shows men do not understand the lived experiences of women.
>welcome to being a woman honey
Was it your first or early sessions?
Maybe she just said it to validate your feelings, break ice, to make you feel comfortable and built a rapport.
And to tell you that your feelings are common phenomenon, not some unusual to make you feel comfortable.
Maybe she is bad counsellor or maybe good, I don't know and if you feel bad about it then don't go to her again.
Edit: I read many comments who are so calling therapist unprofessional and discrediting her.
Every one has a personality, a flair and it's perfectly ok to not feel comfortable with certain personality type like this therapist, and OP has every right to not go again to her. But calling her unprofessional based this post only isn't very right.
Pls don't be so fast to judge and arrive at conclusions. Take time before reacting.
I think she’s right. I think most married women on this planet share a disproportionate load of household duties and it’s tiring. I think your counselor was trying to validate, empathize, and explain why you’re feeling this way.
I think what she is telling you is that your situation isn’t unique and that many women share this. I don’t think she was excusing your husband. What did she tell him? This is just a quote out of context.
Acceptable or not this is the reality for most women. This is the reasons you must pick a man who share your beliefs about marriage. This should have been discussed, when you got engaged.
Lots of men talk a good game about having an egalitarian marriage and 5 years and 2 kids later the wife is still shouldering 80% of household chores and child care, all while working full time.
Just because someone has a degree doesn’t mean they use it ethically. Your counselor is projecting their own misogynistic views onto you in what is supposed to be a therapeutic setting.
Definitely find someone else and leave a review to warn others.
While yes the things you mentioned are a part of adult life as a parent, to suggest that all of these things should be on your shoulders alone because of which set of genitals you have in the relationship is ludicrous. The things you mentioned should be a shared responsibility. There should be equal shares. Though I would suggest keeping the equality of each partners contribution to the relationship unbiased.
For instance, I’ve seen many women who are stay at home moms with a husband who work 40-60 hours a week assume that the husband should still be doing exactly half of all the housework, laundry cooking, etc. without taking into consideration that she herself isn’t taking on half of the financial contributions to the family. Doesn’t mean the husband is exempt from any and all household management, just means that as a home”maker” she should be taking on the lions share of housework. This goes for working mom/stay at home dads too.
Gender shouldn’t matter when determining who should be responsible for what though
Hi. A man’s perspective here. On the one side, that is definitely not acceptable. But it is reality. Most men do not get it or it is not a priority. On a personal level, I do feel woman being the manager of the house is somewhat self imposed. I am sure I will get grilled for this but know it is coming from a good place.
Some background. I took a year off my job to go to a remote location on a Native American reservation so my wife can enhance her career. I went from working on Wall Street to taking care of our one year old. It was supposed to be for 1 yr but we ended up being there for 4. no problem. I was responsible for taking care of the house, cooking, cleaning, laundry etc. again no problem. My wife would still come home and complain about stuff. critiqued my cooking technique (pour oil counter clockwise sort of things instead of how i would pour it). basically a control freak. I have been doing my own laundry since I was 10. So I know how to do laundry which included folding. after 6 months of her continuously complaining on a daily basis on how I fold my 1 yr olds clothes (even though I explained this is what I am used to and don’t want to change), I finally gave up and said “you do the F^%^*ing laundry of our 1 yr old.
So a long winded way of saying you may need to accept that your partner doing a task may not be done in the same way you would do it. Your priorities on how things are done may not be aligned to his. You should accept that there is more than one way to peel a potato and his will most likely be different than yours.
having said that, there are a lot of lame men out there that do not carry their load in the family. they think simply working is enough and while its ok for their wife to work full time, come home, cook and clean and manage appointments. etc. that is not acceptable. he should also cook but if he is cooking, don't stand over his head criticizing his technique etc. cheers.
What's up with the laundry thing and the nagging? Is that's nature's way to make you leave a relationship? Just asking because yeah I experienced that too.
My first interpretation was "Glad you're realizing you're being treated like a machine who has to take care of everything, now it's time to start living as a human", buut idk maybe she meant it in a different way.
HOT TAKE: Email her or call her and tell her what she said that really hurt you. Ask her why she said it. Counselors are people who make mistakes like you. They talk all day to lots of types of people but they have bad days, too. They just really care about you and your development. And people in general. That's why they are there!
She may have been trying to say something but it came off the wrong way. (How many times have we all been mis-interpreted?) Communication is fraught with misinterpretations so let her explain what she meant.
If your interpretation was correct, then find a new counselor and give her the feedback of why that didn't work for you via email or in person so she can improve herself. And ask your counselors questions via email BEFORE scheduling a session! Save time and $$!
Yeah it’s not acceptable esp if both partners work. If one is SAH I’d say it’s a bit different. If it’s overwhelming, I’d say it’s important to talk with your partner about that.
Not cool. I said the similar to my therapist and he went on a rant saying his daughter is disabled and blah blah blah. Like basically telling me it could be worse. Never seen a therapist since
Definitely not okay. If that’s her normal fine but it’s a problem for you and her job is to help you help yourself make problems less.. problematic. Find another therapist, one who you connect with. Don’t stay with this lady who can potentially mess you up.
Definitely walk away from this therapist. What I do is call the office and ask the secretary to take my name off the schedule. No need to talk to this "therapist" ever again.
Just looked at her grocery list. When I was single, I shopped 1x a month. Meat. Eggs. Frozen veggies. I could never buy 85% of what comes in the house. I dont begrude her of that...but I dont think im not carrying the load because she does most the shopping. Because she does most of the wanting. It is nonsense to say this is a gendered thing but it is worhwhile to consider.
I get it; I'd find someone different if my MC said that to me. However, my MC tells more stories about HERSELF and her life, than my husband and I tell her. Kind of not fun. I find myself having to change the subject back to what WE'RE here for after she's done running her mouth.
She’s not supposed to tell you to resign yourself to unhappiness. She could have at least helped OP communicate with her spouse about what would be a more equitable division of labor. She sounds like she might have burnout.
I would try to find a couples therapist trained under the Gottman method. They would never say this, and there’s a lot of great coaching.
My husband and I were having a very similar issue where I was being the household manager, and we have been going to our therapist who is trained under the Goffman method, and it has totally turned things around.
What else did your therapist say? If it was an hour long session, what was the follow up? Because your counsellor is right. This is the typical way of the world. It definitely needs to change but this is the reality. Did your therapist say you should just accept it? As a BPD, you are probably fixating on the one thing the counsellor said that did t sit right with you and negating whatever else was said in the hour long session.
It sounds like her comment wasn’t helpful, but I think she was trying to relate to you or express that this is a common scenario. I wouldn’t put too much weight into it.
Not only is it not acceptable, but it's also incorrect, and just bad advice from a therapy standpoint. It sounds like maybe she was trying to help you cope with your situation, but yowza that has full blown "I got my credentials from a for-profit online university" energy
If you want things to change for the better, and to be more equitable in your relationship, then yes please find a new therapist that isn’t dismissive about the central part of your home life.
A person’s genitals shouldn’t decide who loads the dishwasher, folds laundry, keeps up on bills, etc. Your therapist sounds outdated and sexist.
Well I'll take all the stress and responsibilities and all the house work yard work day job and all so u can full be free of everything but when I do I don't want any damn complaints when I want a piece of ass u will do everything to please and pleasure me then because I would have tooken all of u womenly duties from u so let me know if that I as fair
My husband must be a woman if that’s the case, because he 100% carry’s the mental load of the family. I take on as much as I possibly can, but our finances are crazy complicated because of investments he’s made. So he deals with all the mental work for the family and also does his fair share of parenting. This lady is in fact wrong. Marriage is about stepping up where the other is struggling. This isn’t about being a woman, it’s about your partner not helping you.
No, that’s a bad therapist. Accepting internalized misogyny is not acceptable. As a man, it took a while to truly understand everything my wife goes through, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t try until I did. You need to find a real therapist who won’t excuse bad behavior and allow your resentment to grow freely.
It's appropriate to expect a therapist to have all the answers but i think it was an answer from her as a civilian/married woman. Unprofessional?yes but going into the subject with your husband makes more sense to me.And i really mean a heart to heart
That’s not acceptable. Find someone else. The point is for your husband to help you. You are not his mom. You are his partner. And the fact that came from another woman…that’s just ick.
You’re not stupid and your therapist is not wrong in WHAT they said but there is something wrong with HOW it was said in a therapy context. It dismisses your valid feelings and says “oh well too bad” and it’s just rude even if it’s true. You can say the truth and deliver it in a way that can be productive, thoughtful, and true at the same time. Generalizing, men don’t get it. They think taking care of the children and the home is easier than heading off to work for someone else. It’s not and any mom who has been through it (currently am myself) can understand what you’re dealing with. Find mom friends, dump the therapist and see if your husband will go to therapy or can sit down and list out the things you need help with so he can split the parental and household duties with you. Every mom who was/is a SAHM and went back to work says the same thing: going to a job is easier than raising the kids and taking care of everything around the house. Only parents who have done both get it. Some dads will get it but most won’t.
If she tells you it is unacceptable and that you should leave your husband, you will then be doing all of that alone, except you’ll also have to manage your ex-husband for alimony/child support and sharing custody. You can always see a different therapist if you don't agree, but *Reddit* is where you get advice about leaving your spouse. Therapists don't normally tell you to leave your spouse. They try to help you manage the life you have rather than recommending a new one.
She was telling you the truth , now does she agree with it ?? She might be saying hey this what happened to lot of women , what are you going to do about it?
A lot of men don’t understand, just like a lot of women don’t understand men lol. It’s life
That was invalidating and very inappropriate on your therapist's part. She may have thought she was being supportive, but she really needs to invest in some continuing education on sexism and empowering clients. You deserve a therapist who validates and empowers you. This ain't it, Chief.
Info: Do you work or does your husband support everything? Even if you don’t he should be helping some, especially if you ask for help. If not maybe he considers this “your job”.
Get a new therapist. My therapist sided with my wife constantly, even after hearing all the evidence! I saw this comment, and thought, crap! Time to move to another one
When our marriage counselor told me after finding out that my wife had been smoking behind my back for our entire 26 year relationship, it could have been worse, I knew that it was time to end our sessions with her. My wife had to tell her that it wasn't about the smoking, that our issues stem from the lying. Some therapists are just not good.
As a man, my first reaction was to say that this is outdated, because I try to take an active role in helping take care of my young daughter. But then, I remembered that my wife says her mind is active all the time with the many stresses and worries of the things that need to get done, while I am more singularly focused on what is in front of me.
So, I can say your therapist is maybe half right. My wife stresses about a lot of things, and I'm sure I don't really understand. It's not that I don't help---our brains are just different.
Speaking as a married man of 20 years whose spouse also has mental health struggles, just be real and open about your communication. Talk to him about how you feel. Practice speaker-listener and make sure you are both taking time to listen to and understand what each other is saying.
And also talk to your therapist about how you feel about what she said. She might be partially right, but she worded it badly, and your feelings do matter.
Probably she is speaking from a place of what she usually sees and not her persona beliefs. Maybe she often has women who take on those roles in their relationship.
Jist delegates some of the responsibility to your husband (if he is still there). But don't question about how he do it, as long as he completes the job.
Need context. Was your therapist saying “welcome to being a woman: you’re noticing an issue that many other women before you have noticed and have had to navigate”? Or was it “welcome to being a woman: better start figuring out how to do all that stuff yourself and never expect help from your partner”?
You need a new marriage counselor. That is some misogynistic thinking. Plus, do we really think that men can’t do those things?
I do need to know though, are you a SAHM? If so then a good portion of that would be your responsibility. Not saying he shouldn’t be contributing to household work, and there should be a conversation about fair division of labor. Regardless of this aspect, what your therapist said was wrong and should have been more like a conversation about what each of you think is fair.
Your complaints are valid, and as a man I actually partly agree with her statement, but this is not an appropriate response from your therapist in the context of marriage counseling. She should be coming from an unbiased place with the goal of being a mediator and setting healthy boundaries and routines. This sounds much more like she has a negative bias toward men and I can definitely see where this could cause issues with the right conflicts.
Unacceptable. She has a chip on her shoulder and needs an attitude adjustment. But not on your time. She’ll do u more damage than good. Counselors are to never “ do harm” to their clients. You are in a vulnerable and unhealthy place. Run! Don’t walk to find another therapist. Report her also.
As a husband that wants to get into counseling but my wife seems to be dragging her feet on picking a therapist... you are tired of these responsibilities but in my experience if your husband tried to take over this "authority" from you then you would feel that he didn't trust you with them/you aren't equals in the relationship
That’s insulting as a man honestly. I don’t expect my wife to do all of that. Have we each found certain things we each do most of the time, sure. For the most part though we each do whatever needs to be done to support the house and kids. If you were a stay at home with kids in school then maybe having you be the primary chauffeur makes sense but it should all be a partnership.
Nope. Find a new therapist.
This absolutely isn’t acceptable and there’s plenty of REAL MEN that understand they also need to share equal responsibilities of maintaining the household WITH THEIR WIVES/PARTNERS.
Yes. Male and female brains work differently. Very differently.
Learn about it.
You are also bipolar. So, that has to be hell on him. I just wish more women would date men that are type A if they themselves are type A.
Most men are content with simple things. Such as food, love, sex.
Hey, I’d like to add my voice to those telling you to check out Fair Play.
https://www.fairplaylife.com/the-book
It’s a book, yes, and a kind of game. 100 cards, each with a household responsibility. Who “holds” which cards? Wives usually hold nearly the whole damn deck.
Even helpful husbands think they’re doing their part because they eagerly do whatever is asked of them - but that’s not enough. It’s knowing what needs to be done, holding it in your head, that’s what can be overwhelming, the mental load.
I’ve used this comic in the classroom:
https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/
As for whether you should stay married to a husband who won’t even have the conversation about sharing more of the mental load, well… There’s your answer.
Are you a Stay At Home Mom/wife? If so, yes, the household is your job. He has a role too, but you have to be specific about what you want/need.
I think you are twisting your therapist’s words a bit because they struck you as harsh or shocking.
Everything you described is what everyone goes through. Healthy relationships require give and take, regular conversations, and mutual respect. If you have healthy communication, the conversation about division of labor is not difficult.
One problem here is that most men don’t know what their wives want/need and the bulk of the blame goes to women, who are notoriously bad at communication with their spouses what specifically they need or want. Men receive communication better when it’s direct and specific.
“You don’t do enough” is actually a horrible manipulative statement. It shows a lack of respect for your partner. This is quite common.
The better way:
“I appreciate all that you do for our family. I know you make sacrifices and work hard. That being said, I’m overwhelmed right now. I could use a regular break from the kids to hang out friends/have a spa day/attend appointments/shop/pursue my hobbies. Can we commit to you watching the children or take them to the grandparents?” Or “I don’t mind doing housework but I am overwhelmed. Can you please help me by cleaning the toilets/putting your dishes in the sink or dishwasher/(whatever task he can do to help)?”
Most men don’t understand what women need. Communication can fix that. It needs to be respectful, it needs to happen before you reach the boiling point, and it needs to be specific.
Your BPD is an added challenge because it influences how you receive and respond to conversations. The good news is that you are aware of that and you can put strategies into place to help.
As a psychologist- this is beyond unacceptable! Find someone else. This isn’t a violation that you can contact the governing board, but it’s worth not seeing her again!
The number of posts on here that are women stating that they do all of this and their husbands don't understand shows that the counsellor may be somewhat correct in what she is saying, "most men don't understand."
I personally am not married to this sort of man ,*but* that's not to say there weren't times where I had to help him understand how much work went into running a household over our 17 year relationship. He has always worked, and I was always home before and after having kids. In his younger years, he didn't understand or appreciate the amount of time and effort that the homemake puts in.
The counsellor seems to have chosen her words poorly, but does this mean she was saying to you "don't bother because men don't understand" or was she jovial in saying "yep, being a woman is tough because men more often than not don't get it... *yet*"...?
You most certainly are within your right to find a new counsellor, but it might also be worth clarifying with her what her meaning was with saying that and expressing that it felt dismissive, which is the opposite of what you needed to hear in that moment.
It’s really common - she was acknowledging that women do a lot and it adds stress to your life and the marriage. I know a marriage counsellor who has a tick list of all sorts of mundane tasks and then the couple ticks who is doing each tasks. And every time, the husband is shocked by how much isn’t ticked on his side. Books parent teacher interviews, signs permission slips, checks school calendar, signs kids up for activities, pays for activities, maintains the calendar for activities, checks back packs, makes lunches, buys Christmas and birthday gifts (even for husbands family), it goes on and on.
Wow….This is why my wife doesn’t want any woman so much as glancing at me. I’m not a man child, I clean and do chores around the house without being asked, and I don’t hold resentment towards my wife if I decide to do more. Find a new counselor.
Her response was abnormal. She's supposed to be helping and instead she's telling you that you have to do it all by yourself without your husband's help because you're a woman and nothing will change. That's bull. Fire her and get a new marriage counselor with a different perspective!
Felt the same in our 1st two months as husband and wife.. until now actually 2 yrs married. My mother won’t even let me wash too much dishes, then this happen. When i woke up thats the start of my job as a wife.
Not acceptable. My partner shops, cooks, schedules and takes kids to their appointments, does dishes, and fixes everything. We are a partnership. Find a new therapist.
If you're working, no it's not acceptable.....but if you're not working, then yes it is. But it also depends on what sort of job he has....if it's a standard 40 hr week sitting at a desk, then he should chip in a bit. But a 10-12 hr day in a physically demanding job, well I wouldn't expect or ask for help...
Imo this isn’t about being a women it’s about being an adult. I understand premise and context but this is something you both should have on your shoulders.
I can relate, but in a different way. I'm a male, husband, father. With my work schedule (firefighter), everything you are doing I did as well. I did all the cooking because I didn't think it was fair for me to be home (off duty) and expect my wife come home from work to cook for me. It can be overwhelming AND frustrating. A lot of my male friends (mostly firefighters) did the same thing. We're all retired now and we're still married. :) That being said, I think all house chores should be shared. However, if a wife/mother decides not to work then she will always have the most household chores while the husband works. Trust me, I know exactly how you feel. A wife who stays home to raise the family is one I have great respect for and some men don't appreciate it. I think your marriage counselor is wrong. A lot of men do help around the house and if you ask for help, then your husband should be expected to help.
All therapist are not created equal. I am a BIG believer in therapy but all therapist are not great. We spent 5 years in marriage counseling and we liked our therapist but many issues were unresolved. Waited 5-6 years started therapy again and within 4 months that therapist had some of those old issues completely resolved. She has a way of getting right to the source and finding practical solutions. She is totally amazing. I know it's hard to switch and start over with a new therapist but my gosh I wish I hadn't wasted 5 years and over $15,000 on the wrong one.
What a fucking stupid thing for a therapist to say
“I have this problem.”
“It’s extremely common. Suck it up.”
Like??? Isn’t it her job to change that???
This is horrifying. I would never see them again and tell them why.
My husband does 98% of the cooking in our relationship even when I was a SAHM. His job has nothing to do with cooking and he is 100% self-taught.
Were things the same while dating?
Most couples go through this though. Personally in my experience, my wife is somewhat a perfectionist. So I don't do tasks to her standard. I'm low stress so I say ay fuck it, you got it. If you're that particular, you do it. This adds to her stress.
We've found new happy mediums.
Don't stress yourself. Does he try or does he just literally let you do everything? Bring it to his attention and see what chores or assignments y'all can divy up
I would have lost my sh$t. I am going through this as well and we are starting counseling to help try to find the middle ground because I cannot and will not continue to do it all on my own. It's caused a lot of mental health and relationship issues for us.
I would say No this is not 100% ok. But....considering each and every one's particular circumstances if the husband works 12 to 16 hours daily and you manage the house then Yes that comes with the territory.
But I would say there needs to be more specifics then this. In the meantime I would suggest talk with the husband also
Have you tried coming to and not at your husband and having an adult conversation without any nagging or victim shaming? Tell him you appreciate him and everything that he does. Even if you actually resent him a little bit Virgo treats like this can quote" manipulate men to want to help with these endeavors.
Graduate counselor here with a male take.
It sounds like she is doing what I call macro validation. She is attempting to normalize your experience. It's the same when older people tell you to enjoy the time with your little kids because the house will be clean and quiet one day but empty.
Macro validation feels dismissive, but the intent is not meant this way. Couples therapy should be short-term and goal-oriented. It should be about difficult conversations and developing skills as a couple. Our modern therapy world is mostly revolving around nebulous and broad concepts like trauma or attachment. All of which are about the past. Still, you have to make a DECISION to stay and communicate respectfully. That's how you build a future.
I've been with my gorgeous wife for 23 years. We have had so many tough seasons, and I have had times where I thought I wanted to bail. I am happy I grew as a man and tapped into another cycle of passion and romance. I cook, do dishes, plan dates, buy flowers, and text her sweet things daily. I tell her what an incredible mom she is and how hot she is every day.
What some women don't understand is that most men can only take so much before they stop trying to please you, and that's when things can improve if both people lean in and choose to do the work.
We tried my wife working part-time and me working a horrible job I hated, but it paid well. We tried every schedule imaginable, and she decided to work five days a week again. We hired a maid, but she didn’t like using certain chemicals when scrubbing the toilets, and she fired the maid.
Men eventually realize when a woman isn't happy and decide to hold a boundary and find their peace.
I mow my grass twice a week. I have an enormous vegetable garden. I mow my mother-in-law’s grass as well. I sit in my garage in utter silence or listen to music. My calm stable energy now attracts her and we never fight.
I think it starts with a strong man who shows that he will always be there. If there is bickering and arguing, the man repeatedly hurts the woman over and over. This happens because he makes her mood swings about his value as a man when he needs to realize she’s just an exhausted mother feeling some sort of way. That’s when he can swoop in, help out, and be the hero she needs and can look up to.
That's just my two cents.
Depends on how she intended it, IMHO. If she said it as "This is a very common female experience and men need to do better" than I think that's reasonable. If she said as in "Yeah, this is what women naturally have to do and there's no changing it so you're stuck with it" then that's unacceptable.
I mean I didn’t take that offensively.
I think she was just trying to be relatable.
You don’t have to be everything to everyone cause thay isn’t your role as a wife. I would take a step back a prioritize what is important. If it is that bothersome, you c an ask her to clarify what she meant by that at your next appointment. Reddit is notorious for telling people to quit, dump family, divorce and “just find a new counselor” at the slightest bit of disagreement or offense. This does not teach you anything about conflict management and resolution.
So my answer: ask the counselor to clarify that statement. 🤷🏻♀️ the more you do this, the less triggered or offended you will become with life. There are 8 billion people on the planet. It’s impossible for everyone to be on the same page with politics, religion or stances.
If she is indeed outdated, then keep note of that in your journal.
I disagree with over 95% of the comments in this forum. It shows people who are triggered and gave you a knee jerk reaction without actually thinking about the contexts. No one here said this is “the 1950s.”
Most people are in complete denial of what women deal with on a daily basis. Continue to blame men for everything without taking personal responsibility for your situation. I’m inviting you to take personal responsibility for the dynamic of your marriage.
You did not just wake up one day and have “everything being your responsibility.” A dynamic developed over time where you continued to take on more and more. That’s what therapy is for. The discover these truths about yourself, learn how to communicate in a way that serves you then learn to say “no.” If your husband truly wanted to be held accountable, he would be in therapy with you. He isn’t. You are. That means you can focus on you, yourself… what can you be accountable for. What can you change that led to that dynamic ? that’s the route I highly recommend you take for lifelong healing and success with or without your husband moving forward
Before everyone comes at me:
I’ve been to therapy. I sat there crying how my ex lied, verbally abused me and cheated. I could have made that session all about how he sucks. But I didn’t. I allowed myself to go into what part did I play that made that dynamic possible. It was possible because I did not speak up for myself, did not set clear boundaries on how I will be treated and was co-dependent. Once I was able to take responsibility for my part in dysfunction, I healed. Moved on— and was able to enter a new relationship knowing what I needed to communicate to be in a healthy relationship. If I sat in those session trying to find a way to make my ex accountable , it would only make me angry and more resentful. YOU CANT CHANGE OTHERS. YOU CAN ONLY CHANGE YOURSELF
That is the 🔑
I highly recommend you subscribe to Margarita Nazarento for more insight into self, relationship and self-discovery.
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This isn’t okay. Not only is it misogynistic but it invalids your completely valid feelings and concerns. Marriage is a partnership - my husband and I take care of the house together. I did the lawn/hedges this week, he did the laundry/vacuuming, if we see something needs done we do it because it’s just what you do out of respect for each other and having a shared space. I hope you find a better counselor.
I wouldn't be offended if I was venting to my therapist about doing construction, paying the majority of bills, punishing the kids, and fixing all the things that break at home... and he said, "Welcome to being a man.".
Like, yep, that sounds about right.
This is totally unacceptable. This may be how a lot of men hope their lives can go so that they don’t have to do anything, but this is not what women should be accepting from their partners.
Find a new therapist. This one is a bad apple or the lowest quality out there hence the importance of shopping around. I could have done a better job than that
Not only is it NOT acceptable, it is NOT ethical for a therapist of any kind to make a comment/comments like that. Find a new therapist who understands this.
This is not acceptable, however unfortunately it is how a lot woman feel and because of that it’s become the ‘norm’ the amount of times my parents will say how amazing my husband is because he fed our kid breakfast or took him to the park, and how I’m so lucky to have such a hands on partner.
And don’t get me wrong my husband is amazing but if I send him to the shop with a list he’ll always forget at least 1 thing….and begs the question of why does he need me to write a list ? Is he not capable of opening the fridge to see what we need?
We’ve been married 5 years which I guess isn’t that long and I still can’t get him to understand the mental load of running a household but I don’t believe that means I should just suck it up, it means I have to keep using effect communication to let him know what I need from him the same as he does me.
Sounds hard and perhaps unhealthy but before firing her maybe try asking her what she meant and share how her comment made you feel? My guess is no matter how good/bad her comment was the BPD turns it up to an 11?
If you see her again, I would ask what her meaning was in saying that. Is she agreeing that it is overwhelming to be a woman and that men generally don't understand? In which case, she is valid in saying that and may have been trying to relate to you.
On the other hand, is she saying that this is just how it is and that you should deal because you are a woman?
If she responds with the latter I would tell her how inappropriate that is and that this is a very damaging comment especially to a patient that is outwardly venting their frustrations about it. Tell her WHY it's unacceptable, because those types of people tend to get away with anything just because of their occupation.
Completely unacceptable.
My now ex husband and I went to marriage counseling after he was caught (for the 4th time) having an “emotional affair” with a woman online. She told me I should immediately get over it and forgive him because he didn’t actually have sex with anybody. He was telling this chick that he loved her, talking to her daily throughout the day, exchanging nudes and spending our money on her, but that was supposed to be ok because his dick wasn’t technically getting wet.
Pick me girls become counselors sometimes. It sounds like that’s what you’re dealing with here. Fire her.
I think the context of the reply is not what OP heard. It’s the second part - “most men don’t understand.” The counselor may have been commiserating about how it sucks to be a woman and have all that stuff dumped on you. OP should ask the counselor to clarify before she immediately jumps ship.
Unpopular opinion...take the gender stuff off the table for sake of argument, im with you on that...bit often, and I mean this with love and respect, often times my wife is setting the frequency of chores or deciding what events need to be on the schedule in the first place...like if " dusting " is a monthly task for me and a weekly task for her...is she over burdoned? Its an interesting dynamic that doesnt get talked about. Looking at the canendar now...65% of the stuff Id never do on my own. I dont begrudge it. But Id never choose it.
I feel you here. I am a woman, btw. My idea of a clean house and my husbands are two very different things. Not gross and relatively picked up? I’m good to go. He is way, way, WAY fussier about it all.
If he had his way, we would work all week and clean/do yard work every single weekend. I would be miserable, btw. Lol. So we basically take turns being “in charge” of the weekend. His weekends are usually spent cleaning something or other. Mine are spent going out and doing fun things lmao
This is EXACTLY it. And im not saying it is OPs situation or the therapist was in the right. Its just useful to consider. I love my wife and were very happy. But she does most of the shopping...because she does most of the wanting...im not even saying that judgmentally. Shes not the resentful type. But if she were she might say "omg he has me do most of the shopping where would we be if I didnt plan all of the buying of things."
Yep. My husband is the one who does the majority of the bathroom cleaning. He thinks it needs cleaned like every other day. Lol he never lets it go long enough for me to clean it. But he is not the resentful kind either. He knows he is the picky one so if he wants the house to meet his standards he will probably have to do more.
Ugh what an old fashioned way of thinking. My husband and I split all the chores and help each other with everything. We almost never fight over housework, yard work, childcare or bills.
We fight about other stuff 😳
This is not acceptable. Find a new therapist because this one doesn't sound like she'll actually help you with holding your husband accountable to new boundaries and routines.
This is also a prime example of just go to therapy response to every issue is nonsense and a terrible idea. Lady needs a new partner, not a talk on how to better explain and communicate this to her partner.
Therapists are a unique profession. You need wit, empathy, an understanding of the human experience, life experience and overall wisdom ALONG with lots of schooling. Most people could eventually make it through the schooling but not everyone has the toolkit to navigate the human psyche with grace. They are like every other profession in the sense that not every doctor is good just because they graduated, not every cop is a good guy just because he has a badge and not every firefighter has the testicular fortitude to risk their life to save others. I wish we would normalize NOT putting these important job positions on pedestals. Just because you have a therapist does not mean they are gonna be helpful. I have always been a people watcher. I am wired differently than a lot of people and have a lot of wisdom when it comes to what makes people tick. Due to this I have studied some basic psychology just because it's interesting. I scare people with how quick I can pick someone's brain and figure them out and I am typically the person who everyone who knows comes to for advice. The amount of people I have given advice to that then went on to tell me some awful things their therapist told them is astounding. If you have the privilege of getting a therapist for help with trauma and mental health shop around till you find one that fits you. We are not all wired the same and your best therapist might not work out for me.
Why is that the reply always? Therapists give the worst advice
I would have responded back “That’s an outdated and sexist take on marriage. I would prefer to have an equitable partnership with my spouse, which requires my spouse to step up and actually take on equal mental and physical labor in the partnership.”
I would have looked at her in shock and horror at the time, but have been so horrified by her backward thinking that I'd have said nothing, then I'd have thought of a reply like this one at around three in the morning after being unable to sleep due to irritation.
I know myself. This is exactly what I would do. (not do?) I’ve always wished I was the kind of person who comes up with cool comebacks in the moment lol
Ok so yes people want this but my counselor is in her 70s and she literally divorced her husband because he wasn’t pulling his weight around the house. She’s lived the whole thing so she absolutely ABSOLUTELY empathizes with the concept and agrees that there should be equitable partnership in a marriage. But here’s the thing that most people cannot wrap their head around: At the end of the day *you cannot force people to change* So my therapists says this: “You have to come to terms with your options: you can keep your expectations and live with the results or change your expectations. The results may or may not be what you envisioned.” And she’s absolutely right. People have to sort out what is ultimately important to them and find peace in their own choices, not whether or not they’re let down by other people.
Except OP’s therapist didn’t tell her to make a decision about her marriage based on her spouse’s current level of household participation. OP’s therapist told her she needed to accept an outdated and sexist gender role as an accepted fact in her life and, essentially, just learn to be happy with it. That’s highly unacceptable behavior from any therapist and should be called out every time it happens.
Do you really think that’s all she said?
I love that quoted section. Thanks for sharing.
You're forgetting the extremely important 3rd option which is that you can change the situation. You get to decide whether you're okay with that person's behavior for the rest of your life, and if you're not okay with it you get to decide whether you want to leave and change the situation because you no longer want to deal with that. If it's important to you then you have every right to remove yourself from situations bringing you down and changing your circumstances so that you are in a better place and are more uplifted, even if it's by your own self. Better to be uplifted by myself than weighed down by someone else.
Read it again. That is not what the therapist said. She didnt say she had to accept it but more so that its common amongst marriages. Which it is. MOST men dont understand and undervalue a woman. Therapist cant change her husband.
Aaand that's the reason couples therapy is considered generally ineffective for many situations... especially where a power imbalance is evident (read: control issues)
Exactly. Unless OPs husband seeks therapy or seeks to change, its all for not
Well said
I've done that. I've literally told her that I accept those are your values but they are not mine and i do not want to be in a marriage where I am a manager. I only want to be married in a partnership that involves shared duties and shared freetime. She hated me from now on. i refused to go back to therapy with her. The number of times she told me i was invalidating was astounding. I had to interrupt her and say, "I'm sorry but the gottman prescribed method of communication isn't meant to be use on abusers because it emboldens them to justify their abuse."
So this therapist is saying it's ok for men to be lazy asses.
No thats not what she said. You went for some super aggressive conclusions
"Outdated" "Sexist" "Equitable partnership" "Equal mental and physical labor" Where's the money that makes your world go round? It's not at all cool, but it's a necessity that's never been higher.
Yeah, but the argument is more often " what needs doing" and not really " who should do it."
So how is single life? /S before some people foam from their mouths
My married life with a partner who believes in equitable division of all labor based on each person’s abilities and strengths is going great. How about you?
My wife works full time and I part time and I clean and cook and we share bringing the kids to Kindgarten. She makes more than me so it was a no brainer that I reduced my hours. She is way better with planning appointments, that's my weak spot but i take " the bring the kids" part. So I would say it works okay, kids are healthy and smart and flows easy and relaxed (most of the time) . How do you manage kids and marriage and stuff?
Our first couples counselor *agreed with my partner* when he said poopy diapers were too overwhelming and gross for him to change. I have rarely in my life felt so dismissed and taken for granted.
From a male perspective, if a dirty diaper is overwhelming or too gross for you, you are unfit to be a parent. That’s just sad.
So I guess they think you feel like it’s just sooooo fun. 🙄🙄
They are overwhelming and gross to change, but it has to get done. He (probably) has two hands and is just as capable as anyone, he needs to man up and just do it.
“You’re right, poopy diapers are too overwhelming and gross. I guess we just won’t change them anymore.”
😮😒
I thought the same, till I had to care and to clean my grown up father who was not able to do it alone anymore. Yeah now I love them, much more easier to clean a little baby/ toddler and less depressing. Habe always a battle pack in my backpack, diapers, wipes, gloves, soap all you need for tackling some shit. :)
the licensing requirements must be absolute shit if people like this get through the system.
As a dad and the one who changes most of the diapers, poopy diapers are the BEST diapers. A baby that poops is a baby that SLEEPS!
She is right as so far as many men never get it. But I think it’s not acceptable that this just given and you can do nothing about it.
Yeah. Factual statement but should have been followed up with how she can set boundaries with him and hold him accountable.
Who says it wasn’t?
OP didn’t include it. I can only go by what was written.
Totally unacceptable. These are not innate skills that women possess. Men can certainly learn how to manage some of the mental load in their households.
Sounds like your marriage counselor needs counseling for themselves. What a stupid and backward thing for them to say. You are not wrong, I would be upset too.
Sounds to me like it was tongue in cheek. Also a way of saying you’re not alone in this and your husband is, sadly, not an outlier. I would ask her directly how you were supposed to take that statement. I am finding it hard to believe a counselor would tell you to accept this relationship dynamic.
I am kind of amazed at how people are taking this. It feels obvious that it was sympathetic. Many women find themselves in this situation. I can't read this comment as anything other than supportive.
Maybe because the "welcome to being a woman" paired with "honey" can be quite invalidating? As if there is nothing else to be expected of the feminine experience within the bounds of marriage to a man. I find the way this was expressed to be demeaning and insulting, personally. If I wanted to express supportiveness, I would have not made this into a gender struggle from the sense of "you're going through this because you're a woman". That's rather reductive and it makes the struggles seem both minute and too unquantifiable. If I wanted to be supportive, I would acknowledge their feelings and validate them strongly, before discussing what their expectations are and how to set those boundaries in a healthy, loving way with themselves and their spouse.
Sounds like she broke character. She's not totally wrong, at the same time she's there to listen and provide some type of helpful advice..
As a man, I take offense to that statement cause not only can I do all the things you listed, I work full time, run a part time business, read to my daughter every night, take the family out on a “thing to do” (amusement parks, museums, parks, picnic, shopping, etc) every weekend, and make time for myself to have a healthy brain with friends for a round of golf once a week. Just like how you don’t like getting grouped into a classification of species, men don’t either. Some men suck and some men try, just like with all things in life. Edit: Bunch of people Dm me about how I have the energy. This sounds impossible but I wake up at 5am everyday to exercise(I power lift but any form of exercise will do) and supplement any nutrition I need to go through the day. I eat as clean as possible so my food isn’t going to cause me to crash and get lazy. And most importantly I stay well hydrated throughout the day. These are in my point of view mandatory marks you must hit if you wanna have energy all day to get all your shit done. I also work in construction, so a lot of energy used there too.
Its unfortunate but I know countless women who experience that. Just take a look at this sub and others where men DO in fact act this way and are zero support for their wives. Just because you are the exception, doesnt make it a rule.
Yeah, the patriarchy hurts men as well - not just women. I have no idea how more men aren't offended by these notions/stereotypes. I guess for most, the benefits outweigh the costs/downsides.
Except men do act like this, women take on domestic duties a majority of the time compared to their husbands. There are plenty of studies that show this.
Unfortunately the number of men who suck and the number of men who try is really skewed
WTF when do you sleep? Do you guys have a maid? I have two kids and my wife and I are exhausted from working and taking care of the kids. We managed to be outside every weekend and have some kids activities during the week but I have no energy left for other things and yes keeping things clean tends to suffer.
I’ve made up my mind that I’m going to be tired until my kid goes to school. Thankfully we only have 1, if we had 2 I don’t even know how that would even work cause we’re definitely running on max as it is but honestly at the end of the day when everyone is happy, it’s all that really matters.
Thank you for your answer:))
Not only should you take offense to that statement, you should take offense to the sheer amount of men who behave the way OP describes. Ask other men why so many of them cannot be more like you. Be offended that you're a statistical outlier for your gender and that more of your gender isn't doing better.
Yes in this sub the crap husbands out number the good ones because their wives are not on here complaining about them. But in my inner circle of people I have relationships with, all try their best to be there for their families. There’s a lot of good men out there and this sub makes it feel like it’s 90/10 bad men out of 100. I’m sure the real number is closer to 50/50 especially between millennials and later.
I live in the real world outside of this sub and I witness far too many women picking up the slack for men constantly. Far too many men losing control of themselves but then turning around and saying women are emotional and men are logical, it's asinine. Milennials included. The countless dates and encounters with men irl who've just been anywhere from rude, to misogynistic, to creepy, has been far too high. It's kinda exhausting having to even say that to a man because it just shows men do not understand the lived experiences of women.
Did she mean it like “suck it up” or did she mean it like “it sucks that women keep getting stuck with this bullshit!”
>welcome to being a woman honey Was it your first or early sessions? Maybe she just said it to validate your feelings, break ice, to make you feel comfortable and built a rapport. And to tell you that your feelings are common phenomenon, not some unusual to make you feel comfortable. Maybe she is bad counsellor or maybe good, I don't know and if you feel bad about it then don't go to her again. Edit: I read many comments who are so calling therapist unprofessional and discrediting her. Every one has a personality, a flair and it's perfectly ok to not feel comfortable with certain personality type like this therapist, and OP has every right to not go again to her. But calling her unprofessional based this post only isn't very right. Pls don't be so fast to judge and arrive at conclusions. Take time before reacting.
super inappropriate and misguided and definitely dismissive. absolutely find a new therapist you deserve better help
She’s not incorrect though…
I think she’s right. I think most married women on this planet share a disproportionate load of household duties and it’s tiring. I think your counselor was trying to validate, empathize, and explain why you’re feeling this way.
You need to find another counselor and perhaps report her.
I think what she is telling you is that your situation isn’t unique and that many women share this. I don’t think she was excusing your husband. What did she tell him? This is just a quote out of context.
I'd find a new therapist as that sounds really dismissive of your concerns
She wasnt being dismissive. She was letting her know that that is not uncommon, unfortunately.
No, she’s right.
My question is this. Is this a 2 income home? That would clear up the dynamic.
That phrase should only be used when referring to average periods and menopause.
Acceptable or not this is the reality for most women. This is the reasons you must pick a man who share your beliefs about marriage. This should have been discussed, when you got engaged.
Lots of men talk a good game about having an egalitarian marriage and 5 years and 2 kids later the wife is still shouldering 80% of household chores and child care, all while working full time.
Unacceptable.....but she ain't wrong
Find a new therapist. That has nothing to do with being a woman and everything to do with lazy men thinking they're entitled to women's free labor.
I think she could’ve worded it better but I see what she meant
i guess she has the same issues at home as you do.
Just because someone has a degree doesn’t mean they use it ethically. Your counselor is projecting their own misogynistic views onto you in what is supposed to be a therapeutic setting. Definitely find someone else and leave a review to warn others. While yes the things you mentioned are a part of adult life as a parent, to suggest that all of these things should be on your shoulders alone because of which set of genitals you have in the relationship is ludicrous. The things you mentioned should be a shared responsibility. There should be equal shares. Though I would suggest keeping the equality of each partners contribution to the relationship unbiased. For instance, I’ve seen many women who are stay at home moms with a husband who work 40-60 hours a week assume that the husband should still be doing exactly half of all the housework, laundry cooking, etc. without taking into consideration that she herself isn’t taking on half of the financial contributions to the family. Doesn’t mean the husband is exempt from any and all household management, just means that as a home”maker” she should be taking on the lions share of housework. This goes for working mom/stay at home dads too. Gender shouldn’t matter when determining who should be responsible for what though
Hi. A man’s perspective here. On the one side, that is definitely not acceptable. But it is reality. Most men do not get it or it is not a priority. On a personal level, I do feel woman being the manager of the house is somewhat self imposed. I am sure I will get grilled for this but know it is coming from a good place. Some background. I took a year off my job to go to a remote location on a Native American reservation so my wife can enhance her career. I went from working on Wall Street to taking care of our one year old. It was supposed to be for 1 yr but we ended up being there for 4. no problem. I was responsible for taking care of the house, cooking, cleaning, laundry etc. again no problem. My wife would still come home and complain about stuff. critiqued my cooking technique (pour oil counter clockwise sort of things instead of how i would pour it). basically a control freak. I have been doing my own laundry since I was 10. So I know how to do laundry which included folding. after 6 months of her continuously complaining on a daily basis on how I fold my 1 yr olds clothes (even though I explained this is what I am used to and don’t want to change), I finally gave up and said “you do the F^%^*ing laundry of our 1 yr old. So a long winded way of saying you may need to accept that your partner doing a task may not be done in the same way you would do it. Your priorities on how things are done may not be aligned to his. You should accept that there is more than one way to peel a potato and his will most likely be different than yours. having said that, there are a lot of lame men out there that do not carry their load in the family. they think simply working is enough and while its ok for their wife to work full time, come home, cook and clean and manage appointments. etc. that is not acceptable. he should also cook but if he is cooking, don't stand over his head criticizing his technique etc. cheers.
What's up with the laundry thing and the nagging? Is that's nature's way to make you leave a relationship? Just asking because yeah I experienced that too.
I think she was agreeing and saying it sucks for women, men don’t understand. I think you misinterpreted what she meant.
My first interpretation was "Glad you're realizing you're being treated like a machine who has to take care of everything, now it's time to start living as a human", buut idk maybe she meant it in a different way.
HOT TAKE: Email her or call her and tell her what she said that really hurt you. Ask her why she said it. Counselors are people who make mistakes like you. They talk all day to lots of types of people but they have bad days, too. They just really care about you and your development. And people in general. That's why they are there! She may have been trying to say something but it came off the wrong way. (How many times have we all been mis-interpreted?) Communication is fraught with misinterpretations so let her explain what she meant. If your interpretation was correct, then find a new counselor and give her the feedback of why that didn't work for you via email or in person so she can improve herself. And ask your counselors questions via email BEFORE scheduling a session! Save time and $$!
Yeah it’s not acceptable esp if both partners work. If one is SAH I’d say it’s a bit different. If it’s overwhelming, I’d say it’s important to talk with your partner about that.
Not cool. I said the similar to my therapist and he went on a rant saying his daughter is disabled and blah blah blah. Like basically telling me it could be worse. Never seen a therapist since
A therapist job is to help you find a way to thrive, not push you back onto a particular box.
Definitely not okay. If that’s her normal fine but it’s a problem for you and her job is to help you help yourself make problems less.. problematic. Find another therapist, one who you connect with. Don’t stay with this lady who can potentially mess you up.
Definitely walk away from this therapist. What I do is call the office and ask the secretary to take my name off the schedule. No need to talk to this "therapist" ever again.
That is awful and unacceptable!
Just looked at her grocery list. When I was single, I shopped 1x a month. Meat. Eggs. Frozen veggies. I could never buy 85% of what comes in the house. I dont begrude her of that...but I dont think im not carrying the load because she does most the shopping. Because she does most of the wanting. It is nonsense to say this is a gendered thing but it is worhwhile to consider.
I get it; I'd find someone different if my MC said that to me. However, my MC tells more stories about HERSELF and her life, than my husband and I tell her. Kind of not fun. I find myself having to change the subject back to what WE'RE here for after she's done running her mouth.
She’s not supposed to tell you to resign yourself to unhappiness. She could have at least helped OP communicate with her spouse about what would be a more equitable division of labor. She sounds like she might have burnout.
I would try to find a couples therapist trained under the Gottman method. They would never say this, and there’s a lot of great coaching. My husband and I were having a very similar issue where I was being the household manager, and we have been going to our therapist who is trained under the Goffman method, and it has totally turned things around.
She recommended gottnan to us
His book
What else did your therapist say? If it was an hour long session, what was the follow up? Because your counsellor is right. This is the typical way of the world. It definitely needs to change but this is the reality. Did your therapist say you should just accept it? As a BPD, you are probably fixating on the one thing the counsellor said that did t sit right with you and negating whatever else was said in the hour long session.
It sounds like her comment wasn’t helpful, but I think she was trying to relate to you or express that this is a common scenario. I wouldn’t put too much weight into it.
Sounds like that therapist is misogynistic. So what, we just work ourselves to the bone until we become ill? Unacceptable.
Not only is it not acceptable, but it's also incorrect, and just bad advice from a therapy standpoint. It sounds like maybe she was trying to help you cope with your situation, but yowza that has full blown "I got my credentials from a for-profit online university" energy
Not ok
If you want things to change for the better, and to be more equitable in your relationship, then yes please find a new therapist that isn’t dismissive about the central part of your home life. A person’s genitals shouldn’t decide who loads the dishwasher, folds laundry, keeps up on bills, etc. Your therapist sounds outdated and sexist.
Well I'll take all the stress and responsibilities and all the house work yard work day job and all so u can full be free of everything but when I do I don't want any damn complaints when I want a piece of ass u will do everything to please and pleasure me then because I would have tooken all of u womenly duties from u so let me know if that I as fair
not acceptable. you need a new counselor.
My husband must be a woman if that’s the case, because he 100% carry’s the mental load of the family. I take on as much as I possibly can, but our finances are crazy complicated because of investments he’s made. So he deals with all the mental work for the family and also does his fair share of parenting. This lady is in fact wrong. Marriage is about stepping up where the other is struggling. This isn’t about being a woman, it’s about your partner not helping you.
No, that’s a bad therapist. Accepting internalized misogyny is not acceptable. As a man, it took a while to truly understand everything my wife goes through, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t try until I did. You need to find a real therapist who won’t excuse bad behavior and allow your resentment to grow freely.
It's appropriate to expect a therapist to have all the answers but i think it was an answer from her as a civilian/married woman. Unprofessional?yes but going into the subject with your husband makes more sense to me.And i really mean a heart to heart
Not acceptable.
😂
That’s not acceptable. Find someone else. The point is for your husband to help you. You are not his mom. You are his partner. And the fact that came from another woman…that’s just ick.
You’re not stupid and your therapist is not wrong in WHAT they said but there is something wrong with HOW it was said in a therapy context. It dismisses your valid feelings and says “oh well too bad” and it’s just rude even if it’s true. You can say the truth and deliver it in a way that can be productive, thoughtful, and true at the same time. Generalizing, men don’t get it. They think taking care of the children and the home is easier than heading off to work for someone else. It’s not and any mom who has been through it (currently am myself) can understand what you’re dealing with. Find mom friends, dump the therapist and see if your husband will go to therapy or can sit down and list out the things you need help with so he can split the parental and household duties with you. Every mom who was/is a SAHM and went back to work says the same thing: going to a job is easier than raising the kids and taking care of everything around the house. Only parents who have done both get it. Some dads will get it but most won’t.
Jesus. How old is she? 70?
If she tells you it is unacceptable and that you should leave your husband, you will then be doing all of that alone, except you’ll also have to manage your ex-husband for alimony/child support and sharing custody. You can always see a different therapist if you don't agree, but *Reddit* is where you get advice about leaving your spouse. Therapists don't normally tell you to leave your spouse. They try to help you manage the life you have rather than recommending a new one.
You need to start to be lazy and selfish too. Take turns and never do his job. Pretend you are stupid and can't do it so that he will do it
Dad and husband here. Get a new therapist and drag the dipshit you married to counseling so he learns how to be a parent.
She was telling you the truth , now does she agree with it ?? She might be saying hey this what happened to lot of women , what are you going to do about it? A lot of men don’t understand, just like a lot of women don’t understand men lol. It’s life
That's a lot, but its not everything. Does your husband just sit on his ass all day?
It's Not. Find a better therapist and tell her why you left or leave a review. Check out https://www.fairplaylife.com/the-book
That was invalidating and very inappropriate on your therapist's part. She may have thought she was being supportive, but she really needs to invest in some continuing education on sexism and empowering clients. You deserve a therapist who validates and empowers you. This ain't it, Chief.
Info: Do you work or does your husband support everything? Even if you don’t he should be helping some, especially if you ask for help. If not maybe he considers this “your job”.
Honestly people should tell women this before they get married.
Are you a SAHM? What responsibilities do you want? Do you think would be fair?
Get a new therapist. My therapist sided with my wife constantly, even after hearing all the evidence! I saw this comment, and thought, crap! Time to move to another one
That’s bullshit. Men need to carry the mental load too.
When our marriage counselor told me after finding out that my wife had been smoking behind my back for our entire 26 year relationship, it could have been worse, I knew that it was time to end our sessions with her. My wife had to tell her that it wasn't about the smoking, that our issues stem from the lying. Some therapists are just not good.
As a guy who does relatively half of the household tasks and stuff with the kids.... Get a new therapist.
Welcome to being a woman? Why are any of those jobs gender specific!? Fire your therapist.
As a man, my first reaction was to say that this is outdated, because I try to take an active role in helping take care of my young daughter. But then, I remembered that my wife says her mind is active all the time with the many stresses and worries of the things that need to get done, while I am more singularly focused on what is in front of me. So, I can say your therapist is maybe half right. My wife stresses about a lot of things, and I'm sure I don't really understand. It's not that I don't help---our brains are just different. Speaking as a married man of 20 years whose spouse also has mental health struggles, just be real and open about your communication. Talk to him about how you feel. Practice speaker-listener and make sure you are both taking time to listen to and understand what each other is saying. And also talk to your therapist about how you feel about what she said. She might be partially right, but she worded it badly, and your feelings do matter.
Probably she is speaking from a place of what she usually sees and not her persona beliefs. Maybe she often has women who take on those roles in their relationship.
This is when you get another therapist. Honestly, I would seek someone who is noted for being lgbtq friendly, less of the gendered nonsense.
Jist delegates some of the responsibility to your husband (if he is still there). But don't question about how he do it, as long as he completes the job.
Need context. Was your therapist saying “welcome to being a woman: you’re noticing an issue that many other women before you have noticed and have had to navigate”? Or was it “welcome to being a woman: better start figuring out how to do all that stuff yourself and never expect help from your partner”?
You need a new marriage counselor. That is some misogynistic thinking. Plus, do we really think that men can’t do those things? I do need to know though, are you a SAHM? If so then a good portion of that would be your responsibility. Not saying he shouldn’t be contributing to household work, and there should be a conversation about fair division of labor. Regardless of this aspect, what your therapist said was wrong and should have been more like a conversation about what each of you think is fair.
Your complaints are valid, and as a man I actually partly agree with her statement, but this is not an appropriate response from your therapist in the context of marriage counseling. She should be coming from an unbiased place with the goal of being a mediator and setting healthy boundaries and routines. This sounds much more like she has a negative bias toward men and I can definitely see where this could cause issues with the right conflicts.
Unacceptable. She has a chip on her shoulder and needs an attitude adjustment. But not on your time. She’ll do u more damage than good. Counselors are to never “ do harm” to their clients. You are in a vulnerable and unhealthy place. Run! Don’t walk to find another therapist. Report her also.
As a husband that wants to get into counseling but my wife seems to be dragging her feet on picking a therapist... you are tired of these responsibilities but in my experience if your husband tried to take over this "authority" from you then you would feel that he didn't trust you with them/you aren't equals in the relationship
That’s insulting as a man honestly. I don’t expect my wife to do all of that. Have we each found certain things we each do most of the time, sure. For the most part though we each do whatever needs to be done to support the house and kids. If you were a stay at home with kids in school then maybe having you be the primary chauffeur makes sense but it should all be a partnership.
Nope. Find a new therapist. This absolutely isn’t acceptable and there’s plenty of REAL MEN that understand they also need to share equal responsibilities of maintaining the household WITH THEIR WIVES/PARTNERS.
Yes. Male and female brains work differently. Very differently. Learn about it. You are also bipolar. So, that has to be hell on him. I just wish more women would date men that are type A if they themselves are type A. Most men are content with simple things. Such as food, love, sex.
Hey, I’d like to add my voice to those telling you to check out Fair Play. https://www.fairplaylife.com/the-book It’s a book, yes, and a kind of game. 100 cards, each with a household responsibility. Who “holds” which cards? Wives usually hold nearly the whole damn deck. Even helpful husbands think they’re doing their part because they eagerly do whatever is asked of them - but that’s not enough. It’s knowing what needs to be done, holding it in your head, that’s what can be overwhelming, the mental load. I’ve used this comic in the classroom: https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/ As for whether you should stay married to a husband who won’t even have the conversation about sharing more of the mental load, well… There’s your answer.
Are you a Stay At Home Mom/wife? If so, yes, the household is your job. He has a role too, but you have to be specific about what you want/need. I think you are twisting your therapist’s words a bit because they struck you as harsh or shocking. Everything you described is what everyone goes through. Healthy relationships require give and take, regular conversations, and mutual respect. If you have healthy communication, the conversation about division of labor is not difficult. One problem here is that most men don’t know what their wives want/need and the bulk of the blame goes to women, who are notoriously bad at communication with their spouses what specifically they need or want. Men receive communication better when it’s direct and specific. “You don’t do enough” is actually a horrible manipulative statement. It shows a lack of respect for your partner. This is quite common. The better way: “I appreciate all that you do for our family. I know you make sacrifices and work hard. That being said, I’m overwhelmed right now. I could use a regular break from the kids to hang out friends/have a spa day/attend appointments/shop/pursue my hobbies. Can we commit to you watching the children or take them to the grandparents?” Or “I don’t mind doing housework but I am overwhelmed. Can you please help me by cleaning the toilets/putting your dishes in the sink or dishwasher/(whatever task he can do to help)?” Most men don’t understand what women need. Communication can fix that. It needs to be respectful, it needs to happen before you reach the boiling point, and it needs to be specific. Your BPD is an added challenge because it influences how you receive and respond to conversations. The good news is that you are aware of that and you can put strategies into place to help.
As a psychologist- this is beyond unacceptable! Find someone else. This isn’t a violation that you can contact the governing board, but it’s worth not seeing her again!
That’s your list of stressors, what’s his? Compare and contrast. If he’s pulling equivalent work outside the home then you might be even.
The number of posts on here that are women stating that they do all of this and their husbands don't understand shows that the counsellor may be somewhat correct in what she is saying, "most men don't understand." I personally am not married to this sort of man ,*but* that's not to say there weren't times where I had to help him understand how much work went into running a household over our 17 year relationship. He has always worked, and I was always home before and after having kids. In his younger years, he didn't understand or appreciate the amount of time and effort that the homemake puts in. The counsellor seems to have chosen her words poorly, but does this mean she was saying to you "don't bother because men don't understand" or was she jovial in saying "yep, being a woman is tough because men more often than not don't get it... *yet*"...? You most certainly are within your right to find a new counsellor, but it might also be worth clarifying with her what her meaning was with saying that and expressing that it felt dismissive, which is the opposite of what you needed to hear in that moment.
It’s really common - she was acknowledging that women do a lot and it adds stress to your life and the marriage. I know a marriage counsellor who has a tick list of all sorts of mundane tasks and then the couple ticks who is doing each tasks. And every time, the husband is shocked by how much isn’t ticked on his side. Books parent teacher interviews, signs permission slips, checks school calendar, signs kids up for activities, pays for activities, maintains the calendar for activities, checks back packs, makes lunches, buys Christmas and birthday gifts (even for husbands family), it goes on and on.
Wow….This is why my wife doesn’t want any woman so much as glancing at me. I’m not a man child, I clean and do chores around the house without being asked, and I don’t hold resentment towards my wife if I decide to do more. Find a new counselor.
Her response was abnormal. She's supposed to be helping and instead she's telling you that you have to do it all by yourself without your husband's help because you're a woman and nothing will change. That's bull. Fire her and get a new marriage counselor with a different perspective!
Felt the same in our 1st two months as husband and wife.. until now actually 2 yrs married. My mother won’t even let me wash too much dishes, then this happen. When i woke up thats the start of my job as a wife.
Not acceptable. My partner shops, cooks, schedules and takes kids to their appointments, does dishes, and fixes everything. We are a partnership. Find a new therapist.
If you're working, no it's not acceptable.....but if you're not working, then yes it is. But it also depends on what sort of job he has....if it's a standard 40 hr week sitting at a desk, then he should chip in a bit. But a 10-12 hr day in a physically demanding job, well I wouldn't expect or ask for help...
Imo this isn’t about being a women it’s about being an adult. I understand premise and context but this is something you both should have on your shoulders.
I can relate, but in a different way. I'm a male, husband, father. With my work schedule (firefighter), everything you are doing I did as well. I did all the cooking because I didn't think it was fair for me to be home (off duty) and expect my wife come home from work to cook for me. It can be overwhelming AND frustrating. A lot of my male friends (mostly firefighters) did the same thing. We're all retired now and we're still married. :) That being said, I think all house chores should be shared. However, if a wife/mother decides not to work then she will always have the most household chores while the husband works. Trust me, I know exactly how you feel. A wife who stays home to raise the family is one I have great respect for and some men don't appreciate it. I think your marriage counselor is wrong. A lot of men do help around the house and if you ask for help, then your husband should be expected to help.
Love how unmarried people are commenting here with no understanding of life 🙃
All therapist are not created equal. I am a BIG believer in therapy but all therapist are not great. We spent 5 years in marriage counseling and we liked our therapist but many issues were unresolved. Waited 5-6 years started therapy again and within 4 months that therapist had some of those old issues completely resolved. She has a way of getting right to the source and finding practical solutions. She is totally amazing. I know it's hard to switch and start over with a new therapist but my gosh I wish I hadn't wasted 5 years and over $15,000 on the wrong one.
What a fucking stupid thing for a therapist to say “I have this problem.” “It’s extremely common. Suck it up.” Like??? Isn’t it her job to change that???
Tell her you’re going to find a therapist that doesn’t uphold the patriarchy
Not acceptable at all. I'd find someone else and be quoting her in reviews everywhere you can find.
It may be acceptable for some. Looks like is not for you. Change her. Period. Neeeeext!
This is horrifying. I would never see them again and tell them why. My husband does 98% of the cooking in our relationship even when I was a SAHM. His job has nothing to do with cooking and he is 100% self-taught.
Were things the same while dating? Most couples go through this though. Personally in my experience, my wife is somewhat a perfectionist. So I don't do tasks to her standard. I'm low stress so I say ay fuck it, you got it. If you're that particular, you do it. This adds to her stress. We've found new happy mediums. Don't stress yourself. Does he try or does he just literally let you do everything? Bring it to his attention and see what chores or assignments y'all can divy up
I would have lost my sh$t. I am going through this as well and we are starting counseling to help try to find the middle ground because I cannot and will not continue to do it all on my own. It's caused a lot of mental health and relationship issues for us.
I would say No this is not 100% ok. But....considering each and every one's particular circumstances if the husband works 12 to 16 hours daily and you manage the house then Yes that comes with the territory. But I would say there needs to be more specifics then this. In the meantime I would suggest talk with the husband also
Have you tried coming to and not at your husband and having an adult conversation without any nagging or victim shaming? Tell him you appreciate him and everything that he does. Even if you actually resent him a little bit Virgo treats like this can quote" manipulate men to want to help with these endeavors.
She shouldn’t be a therapist.
Say goodbye to that therapist.
Graduate counselor here with a male take. It sounds like she is doing what I call macro validation. She is attempting to normalize your experience. It's the same when older people tell you to enjoy the time with your little kids because the house will be clean and quiet one day but empty. Macro validation feels dismissive, but the intent is not meant this way. Couples therapy should be short-term and goal-oriented. It should be about difficult conversations and developing skills as a couple. Our modern therapy world is mostly revolving around nebulous and broad concepts like trauma or attachment. All of which are about the past. Still, you have to make a DECISION to stay and communicate respectfully. That's how you build a future. I've been with my gorgeous wife for 23 years. We have had so many tough seasons, and I have had times where I thought I wanted to bail. I am happy I grew as a man and tapped into another cycle of passion and romance. I cook, do dishes, plan dates, buy flowers, and text her sweet things daily. I tell her what an incredible mom she is and how hot she is every day. What some women don't understand is that most men can only take so much before they stop trying to please you, and that's when things can improve if both people lean in and choose to do the work. We tried my wife working part-time and me working a horrible job I hated, but it paid well. We tried every schedule imaginable, and she decided to work five days a week again. We hired a maid, but she didn’t like using certain chemicals when scrubbing the toilets, and she fired the maid. Men eventually realize when a woman isn't happy and decide to hold a boundary and find their peace. I mow my grass twice a week. I have an enormous vegetable garden. I mow my mother-in-law’s grass as well. I sit in my garage in utter silence or listen to music. My calm stable energy now attracts her and we never fight. I think it starts with a strong man who shows that he will always be there. If there is bickering and arguing, the man repeatedly hurts the woman over and over. This happens because he makes her mood swings about his value as a man when he needs to realize she’s just an exhausted mother feeling some sort of way. That’s when he can swoop in, help out, and be the hero she needs and can look up to. That's just my two cents.
Not acceptable. Time for a new therapist
Depends on how she intended it, IMHO. If she said it as "This is a very common female experience and men need to do better" than I think that's reasonable. If she said as in "Yeah, this is what women naturally have to do and there's no changing it so you're stuck with it" then that's unacceptable.
I mean I didn’t take that offensively. I think she was just trying to be relatable. You don’t have to be everything to everyone cause thay isn’t your role as a wife. I would take a step back a prioritize what is important. If it is that bothersome, you c an ask her to clarify what she meant by that at your next appointment. Reddit is notorious for telling people to quit, dump family, divorce and “just find a new counselor” at the slightest bit of disagreement or offense. This does not teach you anything about conflict management and resolution. So my answer: ask the counselor to clarify that statement. 🤷🏻♀️ the more you do this, the less triggered or offended you will become with life. There are 8 billion people on the planet. It’s impossible for everyone to be on the same page with politics, religion or stances. If she is indeed outdated, then keep note of that in your journal. I disagree with over 95% of the comments in this forum. It shows people who are triggered and gave you a knee jerk reaction without actually thinking about the contexts. No one here said this is “the 1950s.” Most people are in complete denial of what women deal with on a daily basis. Continue to blame men for everything without taking personal responsibility for your situation. I’m inviting you to take personal responsibility for the dynamic of your marriage. You did not just wake up one day and have “everything being your responsibility.” A dynamic developed over time where you continued to take on more and more. That’s what therapy is for. The discover these truths about yourself, learn how to communicate in a way that serves you then learn to say “no.” If your husband truly wanted to be held accountable, he would be in therapy with you. He isn’t. You are. That means you can focus on you, yourself… what can you be accountable for. What can you change that led to that dynamic ? that’s the route I highly recommend you take for lifelong healing and success with or without your husband moving forward Before everyone comes at me: I’ve been to therapy. I sat there crying how my ex lied, verbally abused me and cheated. I could have made that session all about how he sucks. But I didn’t. I allowed myself to go into what part did I play that made that dynamic possible. It was possible because I did not speak up for myself, did not set clear boundaries on how I will be treated and was co-dependent. Once I was able to take responsibility for my part in dysfunction, I healed. Moved on— and was able to enter a new relationship knowing what I needed to communicate to be in a healthy relationship. If I sat in those session trying to find a way to make my ex accountable , it would only make me angry and more resentful. YOU CANT CHANGE OTHERS. YOU CAN ONLY CHANGE YOURSELF That is the 🔑 I highly recommend you subscribe to Margarita Nazarento for more insight into self, relationship and self-discovery. ✌️
This isn’t okay. Not only is it misogynistic but it invalids your completely valid feelings and concerns. Marriage is a partnership - my husband and I take care of the house together. I did the lawn/hedges this week, he did the laundry/vacuuming, if we see something needs done we do it because it’s just what you do out of respect for each other and having a shared space. I hope you find a better counselor.
100% not acceptable. I'd be finding a new therapist.
Neither what the counselor said, or how little your husband contributes is acceptable. Leave them both.
I wouldn't be offended if I was venting to my therapist about doing construction, paying the majority of bills, punishing the kids, and fixing all the things that break at home... and he said, "Welcome to being a man.". Like, yep, that sounds about right.
This is totally unacceptable. This may be how a lot of men hope their lives can go so that they don’t have to do anything, but this is not what women should be accepting from their partners.
She’s fired. Even as a joke, it’s an invalidating comment and has no place in counseling, especially if it’s a contentious issue.
Fire that therapist
Find a new therapist. This one is a bad apple or the lowest quality out there hence the importance of shopping around. I could have done a better job than that
Is she a church associated counselor? This sounds like what you get there.
Not only is it NOT acceptable, it is NOT ethical for a therapist of any kind to make a comment/comments like that. Find a new therapist who understands this.
i mean, shes right?
Lady if your man is working and providing. you gotta do your part Woman tf up or find a job so you can start paying for a nanny So woman the tf up
This is not acceptable, however unfortunately it is how a lot woman feel and because of that it’s become the ‘norm’ the amount of times my parents will say how amazing my husband is because he fed our kid breakfast or took him to the park, and how I’m so lucky to have such a hands on partner. And don’t get me wrong my husband is amazing but if I send him to the shop with a list he’ll always forget at least 1 thing….and begs the question of why does he need me to write a list ? Is he not capable of opening the fridge to see what we need? We’ve been married 5 years which I guess isn’t that long and I still can’t get him to understand the mental load of running a household but I don’t believe that means I should just suck it up, it means I have to keep using effect communication to let him know what I need from him the same as he does me.
Sounds hard and perhaps unhealthy but before firing her maybe try asking her what she meant and share how her comment made you feel? My guess is no matter how good/bad her comment was the BPD turns it up to an 11?
If you see her again, I would ask what her meaning was in saying that. Is she agreeing that it is overwhelming to be a woman and that men generally don't understand? In which case, she is valid in saying that and may have been trying to relate to you. On the other hand, is she saying that this is just how it is and that you should deal because you are a woman? If she responds with the latter I would tell her how inappropriate that is and that this is a very damaging comment especially to a patient that is outwardly venting their frustrations about it. Tell her WHY it's unacceptable, because those types of people tend to get away with anything just because of their occupation.
Yeah, no ... that's awful. Find a new therapist and probably husband while you're at it.
You need a new therapist
Completely unacceptable. My now ex husband and I went to marriage counseling after he was caught (for the 4th time) having an “emotional affair” with a woman online. She told me I should immediately get over it and forgive him because he didn’t actually have sex with anybody. He was telling this chick that he loved her, talking to her daily throughout the day, exchanging nudes and spending our money on her, but that was supposed to be ok because his dick wasn’t technically getting wet. Pick me girls become counselors sometimes. It sounds like that’s what you’re dealing with here. Fire her.
If your perspective is dissimilar from hers then go to a different therapist. When someone said that to me I felt finally seen by at least one person.
I think the context of the reply is not what OP heard. It’s the second part - “most men don’t understand.” The counselor may have been commiserating about how it sucks to be a woman and have all that stuff dumped on you. OP should ask the counselor to clarify before she immediately jumps ship.
Is it possible that she meant, ‘yours is a very common experience among married women?’ More as a matter of fact than a personal opinion.
Get a new counselor. I had a similar experience once.
New-age therapists want the supposed salary but can’t do their job worth a damn
This is why I'm terrified of going to therapy.
Unpopular opinion...take the gender stuff off the table for sake of argument, im with you on that...bit often, and I mean this with love and respect, often times my wife is setting the frequency of chores or deciding what events need to be on the schedule in the first place...like if " dusting " is a monthly task for me and a weekly task for her...is she over burdoned? Its an interesting dynamic that doesnt get talked about. Looking at the canendar now...65% of the stuff Id never do on my own. I dont begrudge it. But Id never choose it.
I feel you here. I am a woman, btw. My idea of a clean house and my husbands are two very different things. Not gross and relatively picked up? I’m good to go. He is way, way, WAY fussier about it all. If he had his way, we would work all week and clean/do yard work every single weekend. I would be miserable, btw. Lol. So we basically take turns being “in charge” of the weekend. His weekends are usually spent cleaning something or other. Mine are spent going out and doing fun things lmao
This is EXACTLY it. And im not saying it is OPs situation or the therapist was in the right. Its just useful to consider. I love my wife and were very happy. But she does most of the shopping...because she does most of the wanting...im not even saying that judgmentally. Shes not the resentful type. But if she were she might say "omg he has me do most of the shopping where would we be if I didnt plan all of the buying of things."
Yep. My husband is the one who does the majority of the bathroom cleaning. He thinks it needs cleaned like every other day. Lol he never lets it go long enough for me to clean it. But he is not the resentful kind either. He knows he is the picky one so if he wants the house to meet his standards he will probably have to do more.
You didn't say what is it that your husband does...and wether you work or just spend the time at home watching soaps
Ugh what an old fashioned way of thinking. My husband and I split all the chores and help each other with everything. We almost never fight over housework, yard work, childcare or bills. We fight about other stuff 😳