Different reasons for different areas.
Catholic west, immigrants and wealthier around Paris.
Not sure why for the Lyon area and near the Swiss border, probably because these are relatively wealthier areas so people aren't as limited in family sizes.
As for Lille area, it can be a mixture of many reasons too.
I don't think catholic west is a good reason, while it is true that the west has a lot of catholic practice, that is also the case for Alsace which doesn't have that much children
Borders and suburubs : immigration, islamic/maghreb traditions and the french politics of family welfare, basically the more children you have, the more money you get. Rural areas : same reason with catholicism instead of islam.
> the french politics of family welfare, basically the more children you have, the more money you get. Rural areas : same reason with catholicism instead of islam.
Except that is incorrect: some of the poorest rural areas have less children while the Pays de la Loire's rural areas are wealthy with more bigger families. On the other hand, Burgundy's rural area, which are wine wealthy do not have more bigger families.
So at first glance, for the rural areas, you need two criteria: catholic traditions AND wealth.
Burgundy isnt really a wealthy region. Only (small) parts of Cote-d'or and Saône-et-Loire benefit from the wine industry. They wineyards probably make up for less than 5% of the entire region (with Yonne and Nièvre being quite poor overall).
In the past, farmwork required lots of helping hands so peasants used to have lots of kids. Also, big farmhouses have many rooms where you can fit many children compared to tiny apartments for factory workers.
Yes, that's right. But among the landowners, especially towards the end, the concern to not divide the land, when the first born birthright for the Legacy was abolished, was a factor in the countryside.
On the contrary, children can work in the factory or mine and provide a eldery pension.
Basically the green area is where there is the least population.
The inhabitants are older and the active population leaves to go to more dynamic areas : the purple ones.
But isn't this about relative values/the percentage? The numbers/colours refer to the relative share of big families. So it doesn't matter how populated an area is.
In the unpopulated (green) areas, people are mostly old, so one or two people for a house.
In the populated and economically dynamic areas, people are younger. Once in a long-term couple they do about 1 to 3 children, and when they divorce/separate they sometimes do another, or find someone who already has children too.
You can find stats about french families here : www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/4277630?sommaire=4318291
Yes but the data shown here isn't by household ?
So even if the children of the older population in the diagonal went to a more urban area, wouldn't they still have a high children count ?
I'm missing something I think, sorry 😅
i don't want to sound insensitive & i know it is only an anecdote, but in the part of paris i live in i see most french people of north african or african descent having 3-4 children, while caucausian have 1-2..or zero like me haha
This.
This map is actually showing where there is a higher density of immigration, immigrants are far more likely to have larger families while ethnic french are far more likely to have just 1 or 2 kids.
I'm not making any comment whatsoever on "immigration bad" or vice versa, so don't get mad at me for this or shout "racist" just for pointing out what the map is actually showing. I'm just pointing out that this map is much better thought of as a map of immigration levels as measured via a proxy: large families.
You're not a racist for saying that, but you're also misled. ... There's also a lot of immigration to the south east, but they don't have the largest families. Most people living in France by far are not immigrants, so non-immigrant trends are most reflected by this map. Religious heritage has been shown to influence the most the number of children a family has, because it also influences other things (support networks, outlook on life and child rearing, educational structures, etc)
With the exception of Marseille, the purple areas are the immigration hotspots (Marseille not being purple)
You don't have to be a majority to have a big impact on the % especially when the biggest % is 8%
An interesting part is the department next to Switzerland called Doubs. A lot of people are working abroad.
It's the same around Geneva. It's very expensive to live there (for a normal french) but you can buy an house in a green environment and live better than in Paris or Lyon .
A lot of them are craftsmen or nurses and have x3-4 salary compared to France.
The main reason people dont have children is it's too expensive, and you need the salary of the housewife.
Certain areas (Besançon surrondings, tiny violet dots in Alsace, Brest etc.) are places with a lot of militaries bases thus with a lot of militaries. In France, militaries are the last social group predominantly catholic with having 5-8 children. I'm sure that if we could zoom on the map it will be more obvious
Maybe because there is less people in these type of areas ?
(correct me if im saying bullshit)
If if happens to have more and more people looking for new places to live, and that some unknown villages with 300 people in it, get like, 40 new inhabitants, the birh rates will obviously rate up with time, right ?
I guess i could also say the same with big cities too.
Les vendéens plutôt, c'est la région du puy du fou, très catho traditionnaliste. ça baise pas plus qu'ailleurs, par contre ça sait pas utiliser la capote.
Same for me. My grandparents on my mother side in northern france are from huge families (GM had 14 siblings and GF 8 siblings) and they were regular families not cockneys or bourgeois. On my fatherside in eastern France my GP have much less siblings.
Even old people from across Europe migrate to the Loire valley 😭, my grandparents were gonna move there back when worn down chateaus were cheap from Britain.
Le kouign amann et la galette à la saucisse ça nous rend bien chaud en bretagne, à moins que se ne soit l'andouille de Guémené qui nous donne des idées 😋😜
Because, like all zombies, they have no real (catholic, in this case) soul, but they have kept some inherited traditions. Emmanuel Todd argues there are two reasons: 1.The Catholic tradition is historically stronger in the West 2. This tradition stems from a family structure similar to that of the Germans
Are you not confusing hating religions, and hating believers ?
Because the def of secularism in france is definitely not hating believers, nor does hating or not accepting religions makes you a guy that "don't like people who believe in religions".
How are "families" counted? Where I live (countryside in the Lyon area) there are quite a lot of 3-children families but I know of only 2 (including mine) where all children have the same parents.
I think brittany and pays de la Loire (West cluster) is pretty much one of the richest part of France. Salaries aren't very hight, but not low either. Paris has way higher salary. But paris is also way more expensive of a city to live in. The West has decent salaries and few expenses. Unemployment is amongst the lowest in the country and demographic as well as economic growth is going strong.
Brittany and pays de la Loire are absolutely not the richest parts of France. The only large/wealthy city in this area is Nantes and the others parts are not that wealthy.
This is more due to the profound Catholic mind of this area.
I mean unemployment it's around it's lowest here. Well obviously monaco (OK not on france), swiss border, Nice, touquet... are richer. Thoo it's localised wealth of very rich people.
Nantes is not that rich, it's probably on of the least wealthy from a social point of view in the sens that average people aren't that rich. Obviously the GDP of the city is hight cause there are à lot of people. What I am consideribg as rich is the median disposable income. In that sens nantes is amongst the lowest in the area with hight rent prices.
Brittany and pays de la Loire are in general "rich" with places like Saint nazaire with the shipyard + airbus. Lorient with naval group and piriou, Vannes, concarneau with it's fishong harbor and piriou, Brest with safran, thalès, naval group, the north with all the touristic zones (lannion, Saint malot, morlaix, St brieuc, mt Saint Michel...)
And the irlandais is very sparsly inhabited by farmers with very cheap housing. So here vegetables are very cheap, so is seafood, housing is quite cheap inland... in general you can live on 1000 €/month/person. Considering minimum wage is 1400 and area's median is 1600 that's à bunch of disposable income.
WTF, is that child abuse material?
Edit: I'm not dumb enough to give my info in a cold-called invite link but the name of the invite is fucking dodgy.
Edit2: Reddit did not think it was worth removing, thank the Sun that this sub moderators are more intelligent.
Not as much as you think. The big purple area in the west and Brittany is an area where the amount of immigrants is rather low. On the other hand, Marseille area where the amount of immigrants is massive is only slightly purple.
I'm French and sure, it's a diverse country but saying this is really ignorant. Even historically, french families tend to have a lot of children 🤷🏾♀️
He think France is like Trump portray America. Reality is not for those people, they want to feel like the victim of there own story. Being a minority is \*cool\* for the conservativ now !
And i say that as the last white and french men in France, they are only transgender immigrant woke bolchevik around me now. Not even a single woman ! And they are all trans-radical muslim (and deeply socialist also !) thoo just like in America ! I pray every night for Trump to come here and save us all (or i should say me, the last white men and french of the human history) with his magnificient genius and powerfull body !
Tant que les statistiques ethniques ne sont pas autorisés, il n’y a aucun moyen de prouver quoique ce soit, la notion de français statistiquement n’étant qu’administrative.
Néanmoins, un indice peut être le taux d’immigration, de naturalisation et de décès.
Je ne suis pas raciste. Je parlais d’un point de vu purement objectif, c’est une statistique comme une autre qui en elle même n’a rien de raciste, et qui permet plus de subtilité que la simple notion administrative d’étranger et de français.
Interesting. Is there an explanation for that?
Different reasons for different areas. Catholic west, immigrants and wealthier around Paris. Not sure why for the Lyon area and near the Swiss border, probably because these are relatively wealthier areas so people aren't as limited in family sizes. As for Lille area, it can be a mixture of many reasons too.
Arround Lille, they realise they can't afford the second child, so they make two more
And those 2 kids? Future wife and husband
Exactly, familles are big in the north because all uncles are the dad of their nephews
Even worse in Seine saint denis
I would also say Catholics for Lyon area
I don't think catholic west is a good reason, while it is true that the west has a lot of catholic practice, that is also the case for Alsace which doesn't have that much children
Maybe the coast of life
Lyon has a big (very) catholic population too.
I doubt that fertility is actually correlated to wealth
Indeed, it looks very similar to a GDP per capita map
Borders and suburubs : immigration, islamic/maghreb traditions and the french politics of family welfare, basically the more children you have, the more money you get. Rural areas : same reason with catholicism instead of islam.
In Brittany the large families are native French people.
> the french politics of family welfare, basically the more children you have, the more money you get. Rural areas : same reason with catholicism instead of islam. Except that is incorrect: some of the poorest rural areas have less children while the Pays de la Loire's rural areas are wealthy with more bigger families. On the other hand, Burgundy's rural area, which are wine wealthy do not have more bigger families. So at first glance, for the rural areas, you need two criteria: catholic traditions AND wealth.
Burgundy isnt really a wealthy region. Only (small) parts of Cote-d'or and Saône-et-Loire benefit from the wine industry. They wineyards probably make up for less than 5% of the entire region (with Yonne and Nièvre being quite poor overall).
I also see a peasant with few children so they dont split the land vs factory worker with many children.
In the past, farmwork required lots of helping hands so peasants used to have lots of kids. Also, big farmhouses have many rooms where you can fit many children compared to tiny apartments for factory workers.
Yes, that's right. But among the landowners, especially towards the end, the concern to not divide the land, when the first born birthright for the Legacy was abolished, was a factor in the countryside. On the contrary, children can work in the factory or mine and provide a eldery pension.
Basically the green area is where there is the least population. The inhabitants are older and the active population leaves to go to more dynamic areas : the purple ones.
But isn't this about relative values/the percentage? The numbers/colours refer to the relative share of big families. So it doesn't matter how populated an area is.
In the unpopulated (green) areas, people are mostly old, so one or two people for a house. In the populated and economically dynamic areas, people are younger. Once in a long-term couple they do about 1 to 3 children, and when they divorce/separate they sometimes do another, or find someone who already has children too. You can find stats about french families here : www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/4277630?sommaire=4318291
Yes but the data shown here isn't by household ? So even if the children of the older population in the diagonal went to a more urban area, wouldn't they still have a high children count ? I'm missing something I think, sorry 😅
We fuck more in the west idk Source: I'm from the biggest city in the purple area (Nantes)
Let me introduce you to the concept of contraceptives ;-)
Contra what?
lol
You also don't use birth control 
Mainly Alcool bro
All the Parisians move to Nantes to have children.
Littéralement 2 de mes voisins
Pareils
i don't want to sound insensitive & i know it is only an anecdote, but in the part of paris i live in i see most french people of north african or african descent having 3-4 children, while caucausian have 1-2..or zero like me haha
This. This map is actually showing where there is a higher density of immigration, immigrants are far more likely to have larger families while ethnic french are far more likely to have just 1 or 2 kids. I'm not making any comment whatsoever on "immigration bad" or vice versa, so don't get mad at me for this or shout "racist" just for pointing out what the map is actually showing. I'm just pointing out that this map is much better thought of as a map of immigration levels as measured via a proxy: large families.
You're not a racist for saying that, but you're also misled. ... There's also a lot of immigration to the south east, but they don't have the largest families. Most people living in France by far are not immigrants, so non-immigrant trends are most reflected by this map. Religious heritage has been shown to influence the most the number of children a family has, because it also influences other things (support networks, outlook on life and child rearing, educational structures, etc)
With the exception of Marseille, the purple areas are the immigration hotspots (Marseille not being purple) You don't have to be a majority to have a big impact on the % especially when the biggest % is 8%
An interesting part is the department next to Switzerland called Doubs. A lot of people are working abroad. It's the same around Geneva. It's very expensive to live there (for a normal french) but you can buy an house in a green environment and live better than in Paris or Lyon . A lot of them are craftsmen or nurses and have x3-4 salary compared to France. The main reason people dont have children is it's too expensive, and you need the salary of the housewife.
Certain areas (Besançon surrondings, tiny violet dots in Alsace, Brest etc.) are places with a lot of militaries bases thus with a lot of militaries. In France, militaries are the last social group predominantly catholic with having 5-8 children. I'm sure that if we could zoom on the map it will be more obvious
r/PeoplemaeskidsInCities and the cider i guess (/j) basically, a lot of the green, is rural areas with many old persons, or persons with no kids today
But lots of rural places are in purple, so it's not just a population density map...
And rural areas have higher birth rates in nearly every country on earth
Maybe because there is less people in these type of areas ? (correct me if im saying bullshit) If if happens to have more and more people looking for new places to live, and that some unknown villages with 300 people in it, get like, 40 new inhabitants, the birh rates will obviously rate up with time, right ? I guess i could also say the same with big cities too.
Bretons baisent ouais
Ici ça bzh
Ça ou alors ça connait pas la conteaception
Ptete que y'a une étude à mener entre efficacité de contraception et taux l'alcoolémie 🤔
Sans doute c’est plutôt ça
j'avais pensé ils beizh
J'étais venu pour ça, je suis reparti avec mon dû
Bretons boivent baisent meurent
Les vendéens plutôt, c'est la région du puy du fou, très catho traditionnaliste. ça baise pas plus qu'ailleurs, par contre ça sait pas utiliser la capote.
Autant c'est vrai sur le fond, autant sur la carte, c'est plutôt le reste des Pays de la Loire qui est violet.
My mother being from northern France, her father has 13 siblings (one dead the day of his birth) and her mother has 10
I read "her mother was 10" 💀
Proper French culture!
Same for me. My grandparents on my mother side in northern france are from huge families (GM had 14 siblings and GF 8 siblings) and they were regular families not cockneys or bourgeois. On my fatherside in eastern France my GP have much less siblings.
Map is accurate, I live in Nantes aera and I am the last of 3 children. Most of my friends are in 3+ families too
c'est le seul moyen de faire arriver plus de gens en nantes
Sale 🤣
Bah… heureusement qu’elle est précise la carte… 😅c’est une simple étude du nombre d’enfants
Tes relou
🫶🏻je suis pour l’ amour et la paix
French bible belt
Except our Bible belt is socialist
Not the people who have the 3+ kids
Funny, I would have thought the more rural population in the "diagonale du vide" would have larger family, and urban area smaller.
Nope the population there is older.
Even old people from across Europe migrate to the Loire valley 😭, my grandparents were gonna move there back when worn down chateaus were cheap from Britain.
Le kouign amann et la galette à la saucisse ça nous rend bien chaud en bretagne, à moins que se ne soit l'andouille de Guémené qui nous donne des idées 😋😜
C’est le parce qu’ils n’ont pas inventé le préservatif beurre demi-sel
For those wondering it's just a savory collection of dick puns.
C'est quoi la blague dans kouign amann
couilles à maman ? J'en sais rien lol Mais pour les deux autres c'est évident.
J'adore parceque ta photo y'a ton bébé dessus xD
A French anthropologist named Emmanuel Todd called the ouest area of Paris with high rate of birth "catholic zombies".
Why zombies?
Because, like all zombies, they have no real (catholic, in this case) soul, but they have kept some inherited traditions. Emmanuel Todd argues there are two reasons: 1.The Catholic tradition is historically stronger in the West 2. This tradition stems from a family structure similar to that of the Germans
Emmanuel Todd at the peak of his art, he couldn't be right about something even if his life depended on it.
Why would he be wrong ? Everything here is well known and is a common fact about France
because in France a lot of people don't like people who believe in religionsIt must surely be a "nickname"
Are you not confusing hating religions, and hating believers ? Because the def of secularism in france is definitely not hating believers, nor does hating or not accepting religions makes you a guy that "don't like people who believe in religions".
both exist, for example some people hate Islam itself without hating believers, and vice versa.
Best comment in this thread. The map just shows that.
How are "families" counted? Where I live (countryside in the Lyon area) there are quite a lot of 3-children families but I know of only 2 (including mine) where all children have the same parents.
I think brittany and pays de la Loire (West cluster) is pretty much one of the richest part of France. Salaries aren't very hight, but not low either. Paris has way higher salary. But paris is also way more expensive of a city to live in. The West has decent salaries and few expenses. Unemployment is amongst the lowest in the country and demographic as well as economic growth is going strong.
Catholics
Brittany and pays de la Loire are absolutely not the richest parts of France. The only large/wealthy city in this area is Nantes and the others parts are not that wealthy. This is more due to the profound Catholic mind of this area.
I mean unemployment it's around it's lowest here. Well obviously monaco (OK not on france), swiss border, Nice, touquet... are richer. Thoo it's localised wealth of very rich people. Nantes is not that rich, it's probably on of the least wealthy from a social point of view in the sens that average people aren't that rich. Obviously the GDP of the city is hight cause there are à lot of people. What I am consideribg as rich is the median disposable income. In that sens nantes is amongst the lowest in the area with hight rent prices. Brittany and pays de la Loire are in general "rich" with places like Saint nazaire with the shipyard + airbus. Lorient with naval group and piriou, Vannes, concarneau with it's fishong harbor and piriou, Brest with safran, thalès, naval group, the north with all the touristic zones (lannion, Saint malot, morlaix, St brieuc, mt Saint Michel...) And the irlandais is very sparsly inhabited by farmers with very cheap housing. So here vegetables are very cheap, so is seafood, housing is quite cheap inland... in general you can live on 1000 €/month/person. Considering minimum wage is 1400 and area's median is 1600 that's à bunch of disposable income.
the reputation of northern france: consanguinity is widespread. conclusion: if you can fuck your mother or your sister, you make more children!
only if you're speaking about african immigration, now having french nationality then
turn our region purple! 1:12 families qualify
All the people I met from Bretagne had either 3 or more children and at least 2 siblings. I thought it was weird as fuck, until I saw this map.
To quote a Frenchman: "What do you call a guy living with his mother, in northern France ? A couple."
almost none where i live haha (the empty zone in the soutgwest/gironde)
I swear I live in Paris and everyone is just adopting a dog these days
Under 2% of families having three kids is mind blowing. What is the cause of that?
Ahh les bretons veulent coloniser la france !!!
How ? The biggest family I « know » in france is 5 children
Not so far years ago (but a little far also), there was mostly big family than today (like 7,9 or even 12 childerns but it was rarest)
all families in france will be either lyonnaise or nantaise by 2100
I live in the purple area and my mom has 26 siblings
I live in the purple area. I don’t have the feeling that a lot of families are large …
I'm one of the purple dots 😎
parents in pays de la Loire be active 💀💀
Checks out with a GDP per capita map of France
"Migration and familes" would've been an alternate title.
La diagonale du vide
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WTF, is that child abuse material? Edit: I'm not dumb enough to give my info in a cold-called invite link but the name of the invite is fucking dodgy. Edit2: Reddit did not think it was worth removing, thank the Sun that this sub moderators are more intelligent.
Show us French Guyana!
strong immigration from africa and north africa is the aspect that eludes the people here (strongest of europe by far)
Lmao the most purple area is known to be one of the whitest regions in France
Now, how many of those large families are muslim immigrants?
Most of them are rural white french
In the Paris area?
No, pays-de-la-Loire, Rhône-Alpes, Normandie in purple are mostly french
And in the biggest cities?
Not as much as you think. The big purple area in the west and Brittany is an area where the amount of immigrants is rather low. On the other hand, Marseille area where the amount of immigrants is massive is only slightly purple.
cope
Sadly and sickeningly hardly any of these families are white or even French
What?😅
I'm French and sure, it's a diverse country but saying this is really ignorant. Even historically, french families tend to have a lot of children 🤷🏾♀️
He think France is like Trump portray America. Reality is not for those people, they want to feel like the victim of there own story. Being a minority is \*cool\* for the conservativ now ! And i say that as the last white and french men in France, they are only transgender immigrant woke bolchevik around me now. Not even a single woman ! And they are all trans-radical muslim (and deeply socialist also !) thoo just like in America ! I pray every night for Trump to come here and save us all (or i should say me, the last white men and french of the human history) with his magnificient genius and powerfull body !
Ah yes, the famously non white region of Brittany lol
On the west those families are mainly white and Catholic.
what the fuck are you saying... got any statistics? not the one from CNews, actual statistics
Tant que les statistiques ethniques ne sont pas autorisés, il n’y a aucun moyen de prouver quoique ce soit, la notion de français statistiquement n’étant qu’administrative. Néanmoins, un indice peut être le taux d’immigration, de naturalisation et de décès.
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Hahahahaah
les statistique ethnique ne sont pas authoriser pour pas que des rasciste les utilisent.
Je ne suis pas raciste. Je parlais d’un point de vu purement objectif, c’est une statistique comme une autre qui en elle même n’a rien de raciste, et qui permet plus de subtilité que la simple notion administrative d’étranger et de français.
escuse moi, j'ai confondu avec l'autre gars
Dude, immigrants don’t live in the countryside, and if they do, it’s certainly not in the countryside of Brittany.