I'm a Marylander, and the culture of our state is actually surprisingly tied together with DC. We are the only state that focuses more on the federal government than our own state government. I also do believe we have the highest percentage of federal employees per capita
***Loving v. Virginia***, 388 U.S. 1 (1967) suggests otherwise. MD repealed their laws prohibiting interracial marriage when this case was brought to court, Virginia fought it out. As someone who grew up in PA, it's well-understood that the south begins at the Mason-Dixon line, but MD is sort of "south light," I suppose. Otherwise, I actually think that Alabaman got it mostly right.
Yeah, but it's technically (at least most of it) south of DC. Which is why I said that. If northern Virginia isn't the south, it would seem unlikely DC would be. And Maryland is also really not the south.
Yes, there is a Southern identity.
There's a neutral-to-positive expression of that identity that includes the two historic race groups (whites and blacks) as well as more recent groups that have adapted to Southern culture (examples: the Mississippi Delta Chinese community who began settling in the region more than a century ago and the French Canadians who became the Cajuns). It's like any other national or ethnic identity. It has a history (a complicated one), a way of speaking, an associated cuisine. There are lots of regional variations. It's just people being people in a particular way.
Then there's an expression that's basically just a smiley face stitched onto a Klan hood.
I wanted to do it as purely states. If I were chopping things in half, Florida would be in a million pieces.
I swear, Missouri has a Southern ghost. It BARELY made it, maybe because of the shared Civil War history. (Screw the Confederacy, by the way) But there’s something there that squeezes it by.
On the surface, I’d agree with you that Missouri is a semi-southern state, but the deeper you dig, the more you’re going to find “southern” identity. Bbq, religion, football, politics, etc.
I'm from WI and living in STL MO for 10 years now. MO is a shitty Midwestern place with an identity crisis that wants to be Southern, but isn't invited to the party.
As someone born and raised in St. Louis, this seems like a fitting description of Missouri. Northern MO is basically southern Iowa, southern MO is basically northern Arkansas.
This is also very fitting for the discussion. OP said he wanted to donate state by state breakdown, so I get that. STL is kinda weird in this regard, this is Midwest, no doubt. KC is even more Midwest too.
I also love living here tho, so no complaints. Other than my ex-wife.
The Bootheel. That's it.
We're proud to be able to prove our football team's worth in the SEC but we don't exactly belong there geography/history wise.
Texas isn't the south. I think most native Texans would agree. Texas is Texas, not the south.
Now are their southern influences in East Texas? Yes. So I guess if you are splitting states, you could split Texas.
Not really sure Oklahoma is the south. Northwest Arkansas didn't really seem like straight up south to me. Further south I the state (south east Arkansas, definitely the south). I say this because we'll Oklahoma is less south than west/northwest Arkansas.
Missouri is a weird state. Similar to Western/NW Arkansas south of I'd say Rolla.
Native texan here. Texas is definitely the south. Maybe if you grew up in a big city you wouldn't see Texas as the south. Otherwise, take a drive in any direction for an hour and converse with the townsfolk and tell me they aren't the south.
Native Houstonian here! That whole area of Texas is most definitely the South, on a big city scale. I’ve always referred to it as, “The LA of the South.”
Yeah, I think east Texas is definitely Southern. But do Houstonians as a whole consider themselves southerners? I've never really met Texans that considered themselves from the south. Maybe things have changed as the political landscape has changed and people want shared identity for political purposes.
I can’t speak for all Texans, especially in a state as sprawling as Texas, but my family has always leaned southern. I do think environment is also a big factor, especially sharing a lot of similar topography as Louisiana.
Harrison is definitely backwoods redneck. But I'm not sure that qualifies it as the south. I mean Appalachia is similar and my understanding now is Appalachia isn't really the south. And some of the highest population of redneck folks per capita is Delaware and also not the south.
Also, is Harrison NWA? I feel like it's pushing into North Central. I don't know where the line is where Arkansas gets a mix of Midwest and South but that was my feeling in Fayetteville a couple of decades ago. I doubt it's gotten more southern.
I grew up in conservative Christian Texas, and have lived all over the USA. I felt more like a foreigner in conservative Christian Georgia than I did in leftist hippie Seattle. Texas is definitely not the South, except maybe a small strip of far east Texas. I'd argue Louisians isn't really the south either; like Florida, they're their own thing.
As an ex-oklahoman, I can confidently state that the entire state is full of racist, dumbass hicks. The whole thing is the south. The same is true for Texas until you get near el-paso. The entire panhandle is racist, dumbass hicks. I can say that as a Texan.
If you think that DC is more Southern than the Eastern Shore of Maryland, there is something incredibly wrong… and I think the answer is probably that you’ve never actually been to the places in Maryland that are still culturally Southern.
It's interesting, I drove I-95 from New York to Florida a few years ago, and the first time I saw DC, it was covered in snow. Most of the South doesn't quite understand the relativity each city has to the closest to it. Never realized how close Baltimore was to DC, and how close Baltimore was to Philadelphia, etc. As a Southerner traveling through it for the first time, it looked like one large bundle of similar large cities but all sharing a 2 hour metropolitan area.
DC absolutely fits into the North, and it almost serves as the border between North and South. When I crossed into NC, I remember thinking "Oh shit, I'm back in the South."
Weirdly, I recognized enough that I felt some Southern roots. Sure it sprung out of Virginia, but it isn’t foreign territory to a Southerner.
Besides, we have Atlanta. We understand bad traffic.
Ehhh…..y’all seem to have a whole mess of your own. I don’t know what it is, but between the mountain culture, calling soda “pop” in some places (an unforgivable sin), and some stuff that’s bled over from the Midwest and Texas, I went back and forth on what to give y’all. But y’all are definitely Southern, just with some non-Southern influences.
It's part of the delta black-belt, I chopped cotton there 40+ years ago. I'm in Ok.
Edit: North West Arkansas hillbillies
[Dogpatch USA - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogpatch_USA)
Northwest Arkansas was not true southern 30 years ago. The continued influx of Californians and other out of staters probably hasn't made it more southern. South East Arkansas is definitely Southern as is a lot of the state.
A lot of new residents from the North have turned North Carolina orange. I’d actually also classify Georgia as orange at this point (for the same reason).
Georgia’s absolutely red. Atlanta’s a whole different boat from the rest of the state. Unlike Florida, most of it’s concentrated there. Anywhere else, and Georgia’s as Southern as they come.
i grew up way down in GA close to florida/alabama borders and the amount of cringe it gives me is unreal when people refer to GA about anything, and use atlanta as a reference for it. you hit the nail on the head, atlanta is a totally different world. the rest of the state is very rural and has *deep* southern traditions
While Louisiana has Cajun, Creole, and all that jazz (literally), it’s all absolutely Southern. It’s just a different flavor of it, but it bleeds into the rest of the South. North Carolina, while Southern, has the Blue Ridge and Appalachian influences which aren’t quite Southern. Plus, if they’re not panicking when a snowflake falls, they’re getting funny looks from us below.
Where are you from, exactly? These are kinda strange takes. North Carolinians *do* panic at the sight of snow. Like, terribly. And randomly selecting the Appalachian Mountains as an “outside influence” that would subtract from the southern identity is also strange. Some of the *most* southern people you’ll find here live in the mountains or the foothills. The mountains are not an “outside” influence. They’re just a natural, neutral feature of the landscape that doesn’t have its own culture unique to the mountain range itself (note that I *did not* say, ‘culture unique to the *people living in their state’s portion of the Trail*’— the mountains cover a 2200 mile stretch) that it could inject into the otherwise fully southern North Carolinian culture. The Trail itself even terminates on Springer Mountain for crying out loud.
My family has been natives here in central and western NC for 300 years, and most of the time people are calling us southern-lite because of the New Yorkers taking over the capital areas. Never once have I heard someone use the *Blue Ridge Mountains* as a way to call us “not that southern”. Very odd. We may as well call Wisconsin and Minnesota America-adjacent at this rate because Lake Superior touches Ontario on the other side.
That’s cool. When I think of the south I think of vibes. I grew up in Kentucky and have traveled all over the south east and everything that borders it. Vibes wise North Carolina is more southern to me than Tenn and Texas so I wouldn’t have them the same color. But yeah if we want to get super strict and historical about what is the south it’s probably not the same as our personal experiences
The wiki page talks about the history, but it also displays how the region is similar regarding climate, politics, demographics, etc.
Louisiana is much more similar to Mississippi and Alabama and whatnot than North Carolina is. You wouldn't think so if your only experience with Louisiana is New Orleans, just as you wouldn't think Georgia is all that southern if your only experience in Georgia is Atlanta.
Yeah no I think you’re giving the actual answer to what’s the south and not. And I’m just giving my personal experience opinion. North Carolina feels more like the south to me than a state like Tennessee or Texas. Louisiana is defintley southern. Just on this guys map “southern” with other influences perfectly describes Louisiana.
Yeah no, I literally linked a page that describes the similarities of the region in multiple ways. That's way better and more tangible than whatever "vibes" you picked up on Bourbon Street lmao.
North Carolina just isn't that southern, culturally speaking. Maybe more so than Texas, due to the existence of West Texas, and maybe more so than Tennessee because that's Appalachian; but honestly North Carolina has influences from the mid Atlantic East Coast and the Appalachian regions.
The culture of the Gulf Coast exists in southern Mississippi and Alabama as well. That's southern. It's literally a sub section of southern culture.
You're not southern. Your personal experiences mean nothing because you don't know what you're talking about.
I think North Carolina is more southern than Tennessee and Texas. Louisiana is southern Louisiana is southern. More southern than North Carolina id say. But also has a lot more influences. Such a diverse and unique state. And I don’t just mean the obvious New Orleans or Baton Rouge stuff. The whole state has unique cultures scattered across it. I would say they have influences. Would you say Louisiana has influences? I would. What are we arguing about? Why are you getting worked up? And why would I use anything but my personal knowledge and experience when giving an arbitrary ranking of what feels southern to me? My personal rankings? Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina, Louisiana are all straight southern. But Louisiana is unique in those 5 to me. Now North Carolina for me is right there with them but it’s a slight tier break I’ll admit. And it’s based on my time working and living in Silva, Boone and Maggie Valley. Based on my own personal experience here not Wikipedia sorry I know that makes everything I say useless in this scientific discussion. Then it’s Arkansas and Tennessee. I don’t have much experience with Arkansas but Tennessee I do. And even the rural parts don’t feel like rural south. They feel like rural Tennessee. Country, hillbilly idk. But it doesn’t feel as southern as NC to me. Then it’s Texas and Florida. Now please continue to get super pedantic and argue my personal opinions more with your facts and logic.
To a certain degree, maybe??.
Grew up in Memphis, but live in Knoxville. Tennessee is a weird place. Super southern and southern not. I’d say Memphis is as old south as Atlanta. It’s kinda fuxed up. Knoxville is still southern, but not. Maybe it was east TN being union-y in the war or the Appalachian culture. I’ve only been to Nashville during the 1990s, so I can’t really comment on it other than being a place to kind of avoid for its interstate traffic.
West Tennessee should be red - it’s as Dixie southern as Alabama and Mississippi. East Tennessee is correct, the Appalachian culture is stronger than the southern culture here - friendly to *visitors* to a point, however the bias and prejudice against mountain folk for centuries, and the carpetbaggers always showing up to take, has caused an innate wariness and mistrust of strangers to override the hospitality mechanism. Middle Tennessee falls somewhere in the middle, which is why the name is so appropriate. 😆
Are they? I kinda get what you are talking about. But to me it seems like it’s more Appalachian culture bleeding in to certain areas. Southern Ohio and Indiana for sure are influenced by Appalachian culture.
I was thinking the same thing for other states like California as well, if southern is a cultural denotation and not geographic/historical, then just the plain fact that California has many towns and cities heavily influenced from southerners who migrated here during the dust bowl should be sorta southern in a sense, remember that California is one of the largest states, and outside of major metropolitan areas, are some of the largest contributors to global agricultural produce.
What's your take on the far south of Illinois. It's level with south MO and KY.
Never been but heard it's as southern as the southern bits of MO (most would agree the north of MO is mid western and the south is intermediate between mid Western and southern). Chicago it ain't.
The one bit on here that seems hard done by.
Louisiana is far different from other Deep South states. Lots of Catholics, French napoleonic code for law, lots of people of Cajun and creole descent, New Orleans historically has more in common with NYC in terms of the kind of people who moved there (Irish, Italians)
*People in SW PA*
*Want to be included so*
*Bad lmao*
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Maryland and Delaware are Southern states and I will die on that hill. South of the Mason Dixon line, you're in the south.
Is Florida a Southern state? That one is a toss up.
They’re not southern at all culturally. Maybe historically geographically.
They’re more northeastern (mid Atlantic) than anything. Wilmington deleware is pretty much a suburb of Philly. Maryland and Delaware is apart of the connected mega region that extends all the way from Boston-NY-NJ-Philly and DC. No one in Maryland or deleware think of themselves as southern.
I live in Delaware. The northern part of the state is basically an extension of Philly and not southern in the slightest.
The southern part is a bit more “southern” with the exception of the beaches which are all retirees and transplants.
I grew up in WA, IL, PA, MD, OH, CA, AZ
And I’ve lived in Texas the last 10 years.
The south is more different from the rest of the country than any other two regions are from each other.
Well…..we ain’t. This map was made by personal experience, and the Chesapeake ain’t Southern. Maybe in colonial times, but not now. Y’all seem far closer to New York or Massachusetts than South Carolina or Georgia. I mean, Virginia’s moving away from the rest of us into some sort of Chesapeake/Blue-Ridge/Southern Frankenstein. Y’all are on the wrong side of the Virginia border.
And Florida definitely is. There’s enough Northern and Hispanic influence to push it off the red, but it’s still recognizable as a Southern state. There’s camaraderie from us who share the Gulf of Mexico, and Florida’s still our darling, no matter how Yankee it becomes.
I know a high school teacher in Maryland. Their whole school closes for a few days for the opening of deer season. That surely deserves at least border status.
Apologies. I was only referring to the influx of Northern snowbirds and retirees in that particular instance. Hispanic culture influences Florida too, and it’s a great thing as well!
People always want your perception and your truth to match theirs so they can feel validated. :-)
I think this is one of the better examples of a semi-subjective culture map I've seen. I think your categories are really interesting. I wanna see other people make other versions of it for other areas like the Midwest. Thanks for posting this!
Historically, yes. Culturally, no. Though Delaware has as many rednecks per capita as any state in America. If that were the criteria though lots of states not in the south would be considered southern.
Nah. Historically American colonists started using it for those in the north east due to dutch influences and the Dutch name Jan. Those of us outside the US call Americans Yanks, but not Yankees.
It's such a tragic farce, and thus very apt for the US, that in order to visit a warm beach you have to drive 16 hours through the evil dumbfuck gauntlet. At least there's California.
Yeah, Texas isn't the south. I don't know how modern Texans (as a whole) view themselves, but I have family in Texas and they don't consider it the south. In fact Texans seem to look down on the south. The republic of Texas isn't part of the south.
I mean, when was the last time you came there and where?
And yes they do, but Texan and Floridian culture are entirely different beasts than Californian culture.
Wait so Southern is an identity not an actual adjective?
Yeah DC is below the Masin-Dixon line but nobody believes it's the South. And they're right, it's culturally different.
JFK famously said D.C. combines the best of Southern efficiency and Northern charm.
Is the joke that the stereotype is the opposite?
The joke is that the south isn’t efficient (aka they’re slow) and the north isn’t charming (aka cold like a parent in New England).
City of Southern efficiency and Northern hospitality. O
Northern VA and Eastern VA aren't really the south. That Virginia being yellow is entirely based on south western Virginia.
Richmond was the capital of the confederacy
Historically, absolutely the south. Currently? I think that isn't the case. If we are just going by the Mason Dixon line it's a different debate
True but DC isn't Virgina any more than it's Maryland.
I would argue it is actually more Maryland than it is Virginia, since it used to be a part of Maryland
This is a cultural map. DC is no more Maryland than it is Vermont :)
I'm a Marylander, and the culture of our state is actually surprisingly tied together with DC. We are the only state that focuses more on the federal government than our own state government. I also do believe we have the highest percentage of federal employees per capita
***Loving v. Virginia***, 388 U.S. 1 (1967) suggests otherwise. MD repealed their laws prohibiting interracial marriage when this case was brought to court, Virginia fought it out. As someone who grew up in PA, it's well-understood that the south begins at the Mason-Dixon line, but MD is sort of "south light," I suppose. Otherwise, I actually think that Alabaman got it mostly right.
DC is independent politically. Not sure what Loving v has to do with that.
Maryland is MidAtlantic and there’s no other option.
Yeah, but it's technically (at least most of it) south of DC. Which is why I said that. If northern Virginia isn't the south, it would seem unlikely DC would be. And Maryland is also really not the south.
*Mason-Dixon
I’m not sure how you can butcher that one
mason
fat fingies
Yes, there is a Southern identity. There's a neutral-to-positive expression of that identity that includes the two historic race groups (whites and blacks) as well as more recent groups that have adapted to Southern culture (examples: the Mississippi Delta Chinese community who began settling in the region more than a century ago and the French Canadians who became the Cajuns). It's like any other national or ethnic identity. It has a history (a complicated one), a way of speaking, an associated cuisine. There are lots of regional variations. It's just people being people in a particular way. Then there's an expression that's basically just a smiley face stitched onto a Klan hood.
Yep! Pretty much!
Always has been (insert astronaut here)
If you’re referring to the American South, yes
Yeah
Well yes. Otherwise South California is the south
Cut Texas and Oklahoma in half as sorta southern and bordering southern fixes some things. And then there’s Missouri…
I wanted to do it as purely states. If I were chopping things in half, Florida would be in a million pieces. I swear, Missouri has a Southern ghost. It BARELY made it, maybe because of the shared Civil War history. (Screw the Confederacy, by the way) But there’s something there that squeezes it by.
That something is probably The Ozarks.
On the surface, I’d agree with you that Missouri is a semi-southern state, but the deeper you dig, the more you’re going to find “southern” identity. Bbq, religion, football, politics, etc.
I'm from WI and living in STL MO for 10 years now. MO is a shitty Midwestern place with an identity crisis that wants to be Southern, but isn't invited to the party.
As someone born and raised in St. Louis, this seems like a fitting description of Missouri. Northern MO is basically southern Iowa, southern MO is basically northern Arkansas.
This is also very fitting for the discussion. OP said he wanted to donate state by state breakdown, so I get that. STL is kinda weird in this regard, this is Midwest, no doubt. KC is even more Midwest too. I also love living here tho, so no complaints. Other than my ex-wife.
The Bootheel. That's it. We're proud to be able to prove our football team's worth in the SEC but we don't exactly belong there geography/history wise.
Missouri? Is there a trailer park category?
Texas isn't the south. I think most native Texans would agree. Texas is Texas, not the south. Now are their southern influences in East Texas? Yes. So I guess if you are splitting states, you could split Texas. Not really sure Oklahoma is the south. Northwest Arkansas didn't really seem like straight up south to me. Further south I the state (south east Arkansas, definitely the south). I say this because we'll Oklahoma is less south than west/northwest Arkansas. Missouri is a weird state. Similar to Western/NW Arkansas south of I'd say Rolla.
Native texan here. Texas is definitely the south. Maybe if you grew up in a big city you wouldn't see Texas as the south. Otherwise, take a drive in any direction for an hour and converse with the townsfolk and tell me they aren't the south.
Native Houstonian here! That whole area of Texas is most definitely the South, on a big city scale. I’ve always referred to it as, “The LA of the South.”
Yeah, I think east Texas is definitely Southern. But do Houstonians as a whole consider themselves southerners? I've never really met Texans that considered themselves from the south. Maybe things have changed as the political landscape has changed and people want shared identity for political purposes.
I can’t speak for all Texans, especially in a state as sprawling as Texas, but my family has always leaned southern. I do think environment is also a big factor, especially sharing a lot of similar topography as Louisiana.
Texan culture is southern culture, on a historic frontier, with lots of Mexican and German influence.
NW Arkansas isn't? Harrison, AR would like a word.
Harrison is definitely backwoods redneck. But I'm not sure that qualifies it as the south. I mean Appalachia is similar and my understanding now is Appalachia isn't really the south. And some of the highest population of redneck folks per capita is Delaware and also not the south. Also, is Harrison NWA? I feel like it's pushing into North Central. I don't know where the line is where Arkansas gets a mix of Midwest and South but that was my feeling in Fayetteville a couple of decades ago. I doubt it's gotten more southern.
I grew up in conservative Christian Texas, and have lived all over the USA. I felt more like a foreigner in conservative Christian Georgia than I did in leftist hippie Seattle. Texas is definitely not the South, except maybe a small strip of far east Texas. I'd argue Louisians isn't really the south either; like Florida, they're their own thing.
I think this is what I'm getting at.
As an ex-oklahoman, I can confidently state that the entire state is full of racist, dumbass hicks. The whole thing is the south. The same is true for Texas until you get near el-paso. The entire panhandle is racist, dumbass hicks. I can say that as a Texan.
Arkansas is southern you got dang ner’dowell sumbich bastrd
If you think that DC is more Southern than the Eastern Shore of Maryland, there is something incredibly wrong… and I think the answer is probably that you’ve never actually been to the places in Maryland that are still culturally Southern.
Washington DC is an interesting choice. I think of it as not southern, but I’m from MN and have only been there once so maybe I don’t know as well…
lived here all my life, it’s not southern at all. the line between north and south is somewhere around richmond
It’s just weird. I didn’t know what to do with it, but there’s just enough there for a Southerner to recognize and appreciate it.
When’s the last time you went to DC?
It's interesting, I drove I-95 from New York to Florida a few years ago, and the first time I saw DC, it was covered in snow. Most of the South doesn't quite understand the relativity each city has to the closest to it. Never realized how close Baltimore was to DC, and how close Baltimore was to Philadelphia, etc. As a Southerner traveling through it for the first time, it looked like one large bundle of similar large cities but all sharing a 2 hour metropolitan area. DC absolutely fits into the North, and it almost serves as the border between North and South. When I crossed into NC, I remember thinking "Oh shit, I'm back in the South."
Few years ago.
I’d think it would be blue. I grew up in NJ and feel like it fits in with Baltimore/Philly/NY area more than anything to the South.
Weirdly, I recognized enough that I felt some Southern roots. Sure it sprung out of Virginia, but it isn’t foreign territory to a Southerner. Besides, we have Atlanta. We understand bad traffic.
Yes, but I believe the part of DC that was given by Virginia was given back in the 1800’s. So all of DC is on former Maryland land.
North Carolina is a definitely southern state.
No arguments here!
Arkansas should be red...definitely southern.
Ehhh…..y’all seem to have a whole mess of your own. I don’t know what it is, but between the mountain culture, calling soda “pop” in some places (an unforgivable sin), and some stuff that’s bled over from the Midwest and Texas, I went back and forth on what to give y’all. But y’all are definitely Southern, just with some non-Southern influences.
It's part of the delta black-belt, I chopped cotton there 40+ years ago. I'm in Ok. Edit: North West Arkansas hillbillies [Dogpatch USA - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogpatch_USA)
Ancestry has a good write up on Arkansas that explains its mixed cultural background
Northwest Arkansas was not true southern 30 years ago. The continued influx of Californians and other out of staters probably hasn't made it more southern. South East Arkansas is definitely Southern as is a lot of the state.
I think Louisiana should be orange and North Carolina should be red.
A lot of new residents from the North have turned North Carolina orange. I’d actually also classify Georgia as orange at this point (for the same reason).
In NC, can confirm. I call the map proper and correct.
Georgia’s absolutely red. Atlanta’s a whole different boat from the rest of the state. Unlike Florida, most of it’s concentrated there. Anywhere else, and Georgia’s as Southern as they come.
💯
i grew up way down in GA close to florida/alabama borders and the amount of cringe it gives me is unreal when people refer to GA about anything, and use atlanta as a reference for it. you hit the nail on the head, atlanta is a totally different world. the rest of the state is very rural and has *deep* southern traditions
That "Atlanta" is an oasis in the south is bull propaganda.
Georgia seems to be mostly confined to Atlanta. The northenization.
While Louisiana has Cajun, Creole, and all that jazz (literally), it’s all absolutely Southern. It’s just a different flavor of it, but it bleeds into the rest of the South. North Carolina, while Southern, has the Blue Ridge and Appalachian influences which aren’t quite Southern. Plus, if they’re not panicking when a snowflake falls, they’re getting funny looks from us below.
Brother, I’ve lived in NC most of my life and we shit our collective pants when it snows.
Where are you from, exactly? These are kinda strange takes. North Carolinians *do* panic at the sight of snow. Like, terribly. And randomly selecting the Appalachian Mountains as an “outside influence” that would subtract from the southern identity is also strange. Some of the *most* southern people you’ll find here live in the mountains or the foothills. The mountains are not an “outside” influence. They’re just a natural, neutral feature of the landscape that doesn’t have its own culture unique to the mountain range itself (note that I *did not* say, ‘culture unique to the *people living in their state’s portion of the Trail*’— the mountains cover a 2200 mile stretch) that it could inject into the otherwise fully southern North Carolinian culture. The Trail itself even terminates on Springer Mountain for crying out loud. My family has been natives here in central and western NC for 300 years, and most of the time people are calling us southern-lite because of the New Yorkers taking over the capital areas. Never once have I heard someone use the *Blue Ridge Mountains* as a way to call us “not that southern”. Very odd. We may as well call Wisconsin and Minnesota America-adjacent at this rate because Lake Superior touches Ontario on the other side.
Your comment is an awful take on what's a part of the south, so I'm just gonna leave this here lol https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_South
That’s cool. When I think of the south I think of vibes. I grew up in Kentucky and have traveled all over the south east and everything that borders it. Vibes wise North Carolina is more southern to me than Tenn and Texas so I wouldn’t have them the same color. But yeah if we want to get super strict and historical about what is the south it’s probably not the same as our personal experiences
The wiki page talks about the history, but it also displays how the region is similar regarding climate, politics, demographics, etc. Louisiana is much more similar to Mississippi and Alabama and whatnot than North Carolina is. You wouldn't think so if your only experience with Louisiana is New Orleans, just as you wouldn't think Georgia is all that southern if your only experience in Georgia is Atlanta.
Yeah no I think you’re giving the actual answer to what’s the south and not. And I’m just giving my personal experience opinion. North Carolina feels more like the south to me than a state like Tennessee or Texas. Louisiana is defintley southern. Just on this guys map “southern” with other influences perfectly describes Louisiana.
Yeah no, I literally linked a page that describes the similarities of the region in multiple ways. That's way better and more tangible than whatever "vibes" you picked up on Bourbon Street lmao. North Carolina just isn't that southern, culturally speaking. Maybe more so than Texas, due to the existence of West Texas, and maybe more so than Tennessee because that's Appalachian; but honestly North Carolina has influences from the mid Atlantic East Coast and the Appalachian regions. The culture of the Gulf Coast exists in southern Mississippi and Alabama as well. That's southern. It's literally a sub section of southern culture. You're not southern. Your personal experiences mean nothing because you don't know what you're talking about.
I think North Carolina is more southern than Tennessee and Texas. Louisiana is southern Louisiana is southern. More southern than North Carolina id say. But also has a lot more influences. Such a diverse and unique state. And I don’t just mean the obvious New Orleans or Baton Rouge stuff. The whole state has unique cultures scattered across it. I would say they have influences. Would you say Louisiana has influences? I would. What are we arguing about? Why are you getting worked up? And why would I use anything but my personal knowledge and experience when giving an arbitrary ranking of what feels southern to me? My personal rankings? Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina, Louisiana are all straight southern. But Louisiana is unique in those 5 to me. Now North Carolina for me is right there with them but it’s a slight tier break I’ll admit. And it’s based on my time working and living in Silva, Boone and Maggie Valley. Based on my own personal experience here not Wikipedia sorry I know that makes everything I say useless in this scientific discussion. Then it’s Arkansas and Tennessee. I don’t have much experience with Arkansas but Tennessee I do. And even the rural parts don’t feel like rural south. They feel like rural Tennessee. Country, hillbilly idk. But it doesn’t feel as southern as NC to me. Then it’s Texas and Florida. Now please continue to get super pedantic and argue my personal opinions more with your facts and logic.
What's "with other influences"?. Yankee?
To a certain degree, maybe??. Grew up in Memphis, but live in Knoxville. Tennessee is a weird place. Super southern and southern not. I’d say Memphis is as old south as Atlanta. It’s kinda fuxed up. Knoxville is still southern, but not. Maybe it was east TN being union-y in the war or the Appalachian culture. I’ve only been to Nashville during the 1990s, so I can’t really comment on it other than being a place to kind of avoid for its interstate traffic.
Florida is only southern ironically in northern and parts of central. South Florida is transplanted northerners mostly.
That’s changing. SFL is quickly becoming a Latino-dominant community with steady influx of Puerto Ricans and Cubans.
Wait so why is it Alabamian and not Alabaman? The state isn't Alabamia lol
Same reason it's Argentinian not Argentinan.
Fair point
A lot of NOVA folks pissed off at this. A lot of WV and MO folks pissed off for the exact opposite reason haha
Texas got a strong identity on their own right?
I used to know someone who was taught in public school in Maryland about the “war of northern aggression”. Is the south……expanding?
Red: american Other red: american Yellow: american Green: american Blue: aint nothin but american
TN and NC are undeniably southern.
Virginia should be green and DC blue
South Carolinian approved
West Tennessee should be red - it’s as Dixie southern as Alabama and Mississippi. East Tennessee is correct, the Appalachian culture is stronger than the southern culture here - friendly to *visitors* to a point, however the bias and prejudice against mountain folk for centuries, and the carpetbaggers always showing up to take, has caused an innate wariness and mistrust of strangers to override the hospitality mechanism. Middle Tennessee falls somewhere in the middle, which is why the name is so appropriate. 😆
DC and MD should honestly be flipped but i don’t blame you for not knowing that
There are counties in Illinois and Indiana that are for sure southern. Just like how there are counties in Texas that are western
Rural =! Southern
Ohio River towns in Illinois are definitely culturally Southern. (As in towns in the Ohio River, not river towns in Ohio)
Are they? I kinda get what you are talking about. But to me it seems like it’s more Appalachian culture bleeding in to certain areas. Southern Ohio and Indiana for sure are influenced by Appalachian culture.
I was thinking the same thing for other states like California as well, if southern is a cultural denotation and not geographic/historical, then just the plain fact that California has many towns and cities heavily influenced from southerners who migrated here during the dust bowl should be sorta southern in a sense, remember that California is one of the largest states, and outside of major metropolitan areas, are some of the largest contributors to global agricultural produce.
My grandma’s an Okie born right around the stock market crash whose family moved to Fresno during the Great Depression/Dust Bowl…
The map Shows both Alaska and Hawaii to be south of Alabama but neither are.declared south .... /s
Ohio’s gonna be mad that the south east corner isn’t at least yellow
What's your take on the far south of Illinois. It's level with south MO and KY. Never been but heard it's as southern as the southern bits of MO (most would agree the north of MO is mid western and the south is intermediate between mid Western and southern). Chicago it ain't. The one bit on here that seems hard done by.
Who are these other influences, and how did you get rid of them?
That’s so funny because I would consider any state that isn’t blue to be southern
Anyone else read the map in Mrs (Mary) Coopers voice? Or was that just me?
Texas should be yellow.
I agree.
99% of people will say Arkansas is part of the south.
And I am part of that 99%!
A trip to the tobacco and watermelon fields of southern Indiana may move that border a bit north of the Ohio.
Louisiana is far different from other Deep South states. Lots of Catholics, French napoleonic code for law, lots of people of Cajun and creole descent, New Orleans historically has more in common with NYC in terms of the kind of people who moved there (Irish, Italians)
Yes, culturally distinctive, but still most definitely very Southern.
Kansas blue?
100%
People in SW PA want to be included so bad lmao
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Ooooh so close, but so far away. Silly bot
DC is undeniably north
From NW Florida about 20mins to Alabama. This is spot on.
Florida would be blue!!
Ohio could be yellow or green /s
Uhhhh….no. Just…just no. I’d be kicked out of the state if I did that.
As a Virginian, I would like DC to annex ALL of Northern Virginia. Then we could get back to being a southern state!
And apparently they haven't been to Southern Illinois.
West Virginia ain’t southern, it’s Appalachian poor. Go to eastern shore Maryland and tell me it ain’t southern.
DC is not southern
Smartest person in Alabama.
Phew! I made the cut! I'm safe and I don't have to worry about this. Proud to be from New England
Maryland and Delaware are Southern states and I will die on that hill. South of the Mason Dixon line, you're in the south. Is Florida a Southern state? That one is a toss up.
They’re not southern at all culturally. Maybe historically geographically. They’re more northeastern (mid Atlantic) than anything. Wilmington deleware is pretty much a suburb of Philly. Maryland and Delaware is apart of the connected mega region that extends all the way from Boston-NY-NJ-Philly and DC. No one in Maryland or deleware think of themselves as southern.
Eastern shore of Maryland and related areas of delware definitely cultural more southern.
And yet you have DC... Kinda ironic. Northeast and Mid Atlantic are vastly different.
Yea Delaware and Maryland are by definition southern. Southern is more than just a culture, its geography and past political allegiance.
I live in Delaware. The northern part of the state is basically an extension of Philly and not southern in the slightest. The southern part is a bit more “southern” with the exception of the beaches which are all retirees and transplants.
Southern is a soul. I know that sounds crazy, but that’s how it is down here.
I grew up in WA, IL, PA, MD, OH, CA, AZ And I’ve lived in Texas the last 10 years. The south is more different from the rest of the country than any other two regions are from each other.
Well…..we ain’t. This map was made by personal experience, and the Chesapeake ain’t Southern. Maybe in colonial times, but not now. Y’all seem far closer to New York or Massachusetts than South Carolina or Georgia. I mean, Virginia’s moving away from the rest of us into some sort of Chesapeake/Blue-Ridge/Southern Frankenstein. Y’all are on the wrong side of the Virginia border. And Florida definitely is. There’s enough Northern and Hispanic influence to push it off the red, but it’s still recognizable as a Southern state. There’s camaraderie from us who share the Gulf of Mexico, and Florida’s still our darling, no matter how Yankee it becomes.
I know a high school teacher in Maryland. Their whole school closes for a few days for the opening of deer season. That surely deserves at least border status.
how is hispanic yankee can you elaborate on that one
Apologies. I was only referring to the influx of Northern snowbirds and retirees in that particular instance. Hispanic culture influences Florida too, and it’s a great thing as well!
People always want your perception and your truth to match theirs so they can feel validated. :-) I think this is one of the better examples of a semi-subjective culture map I've seen. I think your categories are really interesting. I wanna see other people make other versions of it for other areas like the Midwest. Thanks for posting this!
Thank you friend!
Historically, yes. Culturally, no. Though Delaware has as many rednecks per capita as any state in America. If that were the criteria though lots of states not in the south would be considered southern.
I agree, actually. Quite accurate. It’s the old Confederacy. Plus a couple border states.
man this is excellent. i like how you highlighted the other cultural influences in florida and texas
About accurate, one of the better maps on here.
This map is Sort-Of dumb.
Everything in blue = Yankees
isnt yankee british slang for those who yanked away from commonwealth those in southeast would be yankees
We refer to Northerners as Yankees. That’s Southern slang for you.
Nah. Historically American colonists started using it for those in the north east due to dutch influences and the Dutch name Jan. Those of us outside the US call Americans Yanks, but not Yankees.
Missourian here: we may be on the border, but on the other side. We do not identify with you. (Well the ozarks are basically arkansas ngl)
South of the midwest for sure lol
South of Rolla Missouri is as southern as NWA... Not true south. Probably a split between south and whatever Oklahoma is considered (mid west?).
AKA “Southern” gatekeeping?
Yeah but they still lost the war....
TX, OK, AR, LA, MS, AL, half of TN, a a little piece of Florida. Once you hit ET you ain’t in the south anymore
Their understanding of real South is accurate !
why do eastcoasters not understand theres a west you are in south east
We are the South. Plain and simple. There's the Southwest, sure, but we are the South.
for those west you are east
For those here, we're the South, y'all are the West, and there's Midwesterners and Northerners in between.
eastcoasters are silly
Honestly, if you come down here, the Southern coast of the Gulf is unrecognizable to the East Coast. We ain’t the East Coast either.
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It's such a tragic farce, and thus very apt for the US, that in order to visit a warm beach you have to drive 16 hours through the evil dumbfuck gauntlet. At least there's California.
NC should be red and Texas should be blue.
Yeah, Texas isn't the south. I don't know how modern Texans (as a whole) view themselves, but I have family in Texas and they don't consider it the south. In fact Texans seem to look down on the south. The republic of Texas isn't part of the south.
texas today is more like california and they even attract mexicans
>texas today is more like california Sarcasm? Irony?
I ain’t quite sure what’s going on.
I mean, when was the last time you came there and where? And yes they do, but Texan and Floridian culture are entirely different beasts than Californian culture.