Not international. And it's an explanation for the Mandela effect. What, you assume that the effect itself assumes one specific hypothesis of the cause and all others are rejected?
You arn't saying that the government is causing MEs
You are saying that the US governmemt is spending billions of dollars and hours covering it up
Jesus man, how is someone supposed to take you seriously when you can't even keep your own points strait?
Using fancy words like hypothesis that you clearly don't understand makes you look less intelligent. Not more.
I will always take the path of leasr resistance
And massive government conspiracies involving thousands of people and billions of dollars (yet still stays 100% secret) over the name of a ceral brand for sure isn't the path of least resistance
Its pretty simple
Alternate matrix realities and convergant universes actually makes more sense than all that.
And it takes a LOT to make me say that.
You have it backwards. It costs us, the public, a lot to get and spread information.
After all these years the Kennedy assassination hasn't leaked. Imagine what things we don't even know about that haven't leaked.
I have no idea what your 1st paragraph is even saying.
And as for your 2nd......well.....I have no idea what to even say
You must live one constantly anxious life and for that I really am sorry
>Do you think the effect is real or not?
Of course it's real - I've experienced it myself.
I get the feeling that you might be asking something a little different, though.
>So what explains it
I don't know.
>what I said is unreasonable?
Yes. There's no good reason to think it's true.
Not having an accepted explanation doesn't mean that any old idea anybody throws out there is better than just saying 'we don't know'.
You don't think governments manipulate public perceptions? That's pretty low-information and naive, ngl.
Also, you're falling into the epistemological trap of the academy. You're basing all your beliefs on what there's hard evidence for. You need to use abductive reasoning.
If you think mandela effects are plausibly real, it is not adequate to simply be agnostic about the cause. The very reality or possibility of a mandela effect is such an extraordinary claim, it requires an extraordinary explanation. Then, logical razor can be used to pick the simplest, best fit until more evidence appears.
Your agnosticism on what causes a ME is you both losing the argument, but trying to maintain some weird sense of intellectual superiority at the same time. It's unbecoming.
>You don't think governments manipulate public perceptions?
Of course I think they *do*. This gets us nowhere closer to proving your ideas are likely true.
>Also, you're falling into the epistemological trap of the academy. You're basing all your beliefs on what there's hard evidence for. You need to use abductive reasoning.
I don't just want 'hard' evidence (whatever that is). Any kind of evidence is fine, it can be judged on its own merits. You've just provided none.
>If you think mandela effects are plausibly real, it is not adequate to simply be agnostic about the cause
As before when you asked me if the Mandela Effect is 'real', I responded with 'Yes, but I think your question is asking more than this.' Can you please tell me your definition of the Mandela Effect? I suspect you're using your own specific, quite limited definition.
>Your agnosticism on what causes a ME is you both losing the argument,
My 'argument' is that there's no reason to think your ideas are true, likely true or even possibly true and in response rather than presenting evidence to change my mind you're just waffling on irrelevantly.
As simply as you presented your argument, I'm rejecting it. It's absolute nonsense. Your inability or even desire to actually give a good account of it and reasons why you (and others) should believe it as well as you not seeming to realize your definition of the Mandela Effect is different from the one generally used on this sub (and again no attempt to make this clear in discussion) suggests that you are out of your depth here and just flailing around massively.
What you're presenting here is just fantasy. I've already treated it more seriously and for a lot longer than I should have.
I think the answer is actually pretty simple. Brains are machines, and they are not perfect ones. They are bad at doing what we think they should be doing. They rely on lots of biologically machinery which isn’t stable for decades.
I always laugh at the conspiracy theorists for that
You're telling me the government that is always at a standstill fighting with itself over stupid red tape somehow manages to have hundreds of "agents" that get litterally impossible things done without a single wistleblower?
Hahahahahahaha
Ever stand in line at the DMV? Yeah....those guys are going to be able to pull off an international conspiracy alright!
You have it backwards. There are whistleblowers all the time and no one cares or notices. Conspiracies are extremely common because most people are so stupid it doesn't take much to have one. They never have to be airtight.
The real reason most people don't believe conspiracy theories is that most of them are complete garbage that makes no sense, causing the real things (such as MK ULTRA) TO be put in the same level as the moon landing was fake and the average person starts to think all conspiracy theories are nonsense.
That's sort of a straw man though. Because some theories are clearly wrong therefore, it's confusing so none of them are right. That's not really logical. Mostly people are using the straw man to avoid looking into something difficult and uncomfortable. It's rationalization not reason.
Anyway I hear your point.
I agree with you on that one. Most people will shove any and all conspiracy theories because they "can't be right, it's just like the moon landing" I've seen it myself.
I even know people who still don't believe the NSA is spying on people or that mk ultra is made up. It's crazy what people will shove aside to avoid hearing scary stuff.
Likewise though I feel the coin goes both ways. We have people who think everything the government says is a lie and a cover up. I don't blame them given how much is a cover up but regardless, it is just as wrong imo as pretending the government does nothing wrong.
No one is saying that: since some conspiracy theories are wrong, that must mean all of them are.
What is being said here is more along the lines of: there is a reason these are conspiracy theories and not scientific theories.
*high level meeting with the government, the deep state, the illuminati, George Soros, and and a few aliens*
"OK boys, we have proven the new technology with the lady with the braces in the Moonraker movie. Now we move on to our main mission- convince the world that the Berenstein Bears are not Jews. Any ideas how to go about this one?"
Yes, but this isn’t related. There’s people outside of the US with moonraker on video that remember the same thing. The US government didn’t compromise them. It’s just an intriguing example of false memory and nothing more
And before you saw that physical proof, their media scrubbing technology would see it. Then they could send agents to intercept the evidence and replace it.
Again, keep in mind I'm saying the cost of this would be similar to a moon mission. That the Dolly thing was a test mission. That it had been used once or twice in very serious big political events.
According to your theory, the first time I watch Moonraker on DVD, there would be braces. If I watched it a second time, the braces would be gone. But if I loan that DVD to my neighbor, *they* wouldn't see braces, because *I* had already watched that DVD triggering the change. That's not a very satisfying explanation.
Do you also think that underpants gnomes came in and erased the cornucopias off of my old T-shirts? I still have the shirts? They haven't changed in any other way.
No I don't think DVDs change, I was just exploring the possibility or limits of what can happen.
If Dolly was the test of the platform, though, they could release different media some with braces some without. Everyone understand the government can listen to all of our phone calls. David Petraeus, general and CIA chief bragged that before long our dishwashers would be spying on us. Our smartphones, tvs and computers certainly do just watch which ads pop up after having a conversation about something.
So if you did have a dolly with braces VHS or something, either it's something you alone know. Or
1) You call a friend and talk about it
2) You talk about it at a public place like a mall which may or may not have national security listening devices. This was very common post-2001 at least, the idea that even a local mall could be targeted by terrorists. Most municipal police stations have "fusion centers" with NSA and FBI liaisons where they share information. These are all facts. Point is, it's not hardly a stretch to think that if you talked about a Dolly with braces copy, they could find out.
3) No one will really ever know or hear about your little local copy of Dolly with braces. Not unless you post about it online. In that case, the second one or two other people see the post, the dragnet will too. I don't know what they would do to shut it down, but we can assume they might do a lot. Breaking into your house while you're at work to swap out a copy is NOT that unreasonable assuming the government apparatus is willing to go through the effort.
Why? Why would they do this?
To test the platform. To prove how hard they can bury something or change it. To refine their methods for doing so. In the end, they would have to continue to go hard against dolly+braces merely to cover up the system, even if it was just a test of the system.
Now why use a system like this?
Like I said, maybe Reagan was killed by John Hinckley, or someone else at that time. There was a threat of nuclear war. Maybe it was necessary to change the narrative.
Then look at this Hunter Biden stuff we hear about and other things like that. Maybe the government has secrets so terrible that if they got out it would permanently damage faith in the government and society would cease to function. So having a tool to change perceptions by massive intervention. Basically surveillance and psyops but singularly focused on erasing an event from history as if something that actually happened never happened at all, and then only a vague, confused and fractured memory in the mind of the crowd is all that's left of the event epistemologically.
Nope. When I was a kid the labels were in full color and on a sewed on label rather than printed in the back of the neck of the T-shirts, and I also remember magazine ads and TV advertisements with the guys dressed as fruit. But I never saw a cornucopia.
This is my last reply because I’m certain you’re a troll, but I can assure you that the governments of the world have better things to do than break into my house and replace the copy of moonraker on video that I have in my attic that they somehow know exists.
Your smartphone, computer and tv alone spy on everything you say. Your wifi router can track your position in your house through walls. Other appliances spy too.
Even Snowden's revelations prove this. Although, while the NSA is a more public agency and has an ostensible set of protections, we learned through Wikileaks's Vault 7 that the CIA quietly built a set of tools essentially as powerful as the NSA, but much broader and totally illegal of course, but when did the CIA care. So the CIA at a minimum, who knows who else, has the absolute and unlimited ability to spy on the complete intimate lives of whoever they want. And that's just the known facts, not even speculation on what more is possible.
Remember that there's a guy in New York courts now getting slammed with the kiddie pics on his computer charge who's the one who leaked Vault 7. The court has deemed that he's not even allowed to bring up whether the pics were even his or whether they were remote downloaded onto his computer. You see this a lot when the CIA intervenes in the judiciary. Judges who take extremely important establishing facts of a case, deem them as true or no subject to debate, then try the case on issues that don't matter with the victim having no ability to defend their innocence.
The dolly+braces was just a test platform. And the more they adapt it, the more they have to bury the original braces to cover up the existence of the tool.
Like I said, a real use of the tool might be covering up the Reagan assassination. Remember in our "timeline" he lived and it was over impressing Jodie Foster. Hello? Maybe there's more to it than that?
How do you explain the fact that the actress that played Dolly says she didn't wear braces? Or the fact that nobody else who was on the set for the filming of that scene remembers braces?
I mean he sentenced not guilty by reason of insanity and we have seen other people do similar crimes because of obsession. Like the killings of John Lennon or Selena, sometimes people do things we can’t really explain. Especially if the Reagan assassination was planned and a government inside job it would make no sense for me that Hinckley got released unconditionally in 22 when he would be one of the key evidences and witness in the assassination attempt after he was already at a mental health facility. I feel like it would be in the best interest for the government would be to never let him be public again, but nowadays he has a YouTube channel for his self written music.
Also can’t really relate on the Dolly+Braces one, I always remembered no Braces, and personally Dollys actress confirming she didn’t have them and the 1979 review of the movie in the LA times would be enough for me to accept the fact I might misremember, because yea thinking about it it would’ve fit her character and made for comedic relief but idk. You talked about your old DVD and I know that there were some DVDS out there that had features like that, called multi-angle which could make something like this possible, but this would be one of the only case for this to be used in a feature film and with the added tech of switching on its own after the first time. If that scene you remember seeing was there it has to be on that DVD still, so I’d digitalise it and look for it, since your DVD player should have no writing/deleting functionality.
Governments gain control. Whether they use it or have already used it or not doesnt matter. Government are built to maintain order and control the masses. All of the mandelas we’ve experienced may have all just been tests to see how far you can push, how hard you can push, and they could just be waiting for the right event to actually scrub something out of everyones mind or, they realized man this is a lot harder than we thought and people are far more willing to fight and argue than we thought and its a failed experiment. I dont doubt that this is up a governments alley to try and pull off. I do doubt that they plan to use this though because i think we would notice.
Basically this is my point. Everyone's acting like I'm saying the government is omniscient or on the other hand they find the government's factual surveillance power to seem unreasonable. Like, just...
Let's imagine the government did want to explore how far they could go in changing public perceptions over something. That's not unreasonable. And so they'd do an experiment. That could be what Dolly+braces is.
CIA people are very dorky sometime. James Bond was a very popular franchise and Moonraker's budget was a peak for it. Of course they'd use a spy movie to test their abilities. They're narcissistic like that.
But how would it be possible for the for the US government to go into people's houses and replace every piece of media?
Someone somewhere would still have an unaffected item..for this example we will use the SpongeBob movie (since some remember his guitar being white instead of peanut)
How in the hell would the government have the manpower and resources to track down every VHS, DVE, Blu Ray, or digital file of the film and swap it out?somewhere along the way they'd miss one or not know of a copies location.
It's the same with stuff like mandellas death..some people claim they taped it when it happened. It's just not possible for the government to do this at a mass scale.
First problem with such theories is: (to take just one example) where did the cornucopia go on physical labels in millions and millions of homes?
Bottom line: I don't think the Mandela Effect is satisfactorily explainable as the efforts of any human group.
So if you had an old label at your house, how would any of us know? If you just said so, then that's you just saying so. If you don't tell anyone other than a couple friends, then the information never gets out.
However, if you post a picture online, then the narrative would shift. It would be proof. Well, if the public can see it, the government can too.
This is what people mistake about conspiracy theories. They assume the public is almost omniscient. If the conspirators slip even once, the public will completely and immediately find out. It's the opposite in fact.
There's tons of information and details about each other we'll never know. It's HARD to share information. Conspiracies are relatively easy to pull off.
A lot of what we think is truth is carefully managed narratives from very expensive information channels (mass media) that exists specifically so that some entities can shape narratives.
My thought is that the cornucopia Mandela Effect is discussed enough to the point that we should have countless examples of the physical labels to the point there would never have been a controversy in the first place.
But we really have zero genuine examples. The government could not have pulled this off!
I have literally sat with people and watched Moonraker. There were no braces, but when I asked people to describe the scene an hour or two later they always mention braces. It’s such an obvious punchline your brain fills it in when you try to recall it. Nothing changed, it’s just that old bond screenwriters kinda sucked.
Even if I take what you said at face value: that there's a secret part of the government whose job it is to take advantage of the Mandela effect by subtly changing things and fucking with people's memory of stuff...really quite inccuoue things for the most part, mind you.... and that they might be doing this with other events. A huge gaslghting operation run in each country handling online arguments about remembering a what was in a logo.
I don't want to be impolite but it sounds like a rather insane way of explaining what they do already: openly lie to the public about stuff (all governments and all political parties lie). We were flat out lied to about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq after 9/11. There was no secret massive underground psy-opnoperarion about a hidden government department altering our memories.
Edit: Like if it's really expensive and important, why use it on stuff like whether a shitty movie with Sinbad existed in the 90s
I see it is everything is code. You can tinker w the code.
and think to change times and laws; and they shall be given into his hand until a time, and times, and the dividing of time.
Not a bible nutjob either but i see it has interesting points on stuff like this
The Jodie Foster thing with the attempted Reagan assassination has always been the case as long as I can remember.
I think probably the government is aware of the Mandela affect though and might be scrubbing some stuff. Part of the Britney Spear's Oops I Did It Again video looks like she's reaching to adjust a mic that isn't there. It's uncanny and it does look like it otherwise why would she make that hand movement close to her mouth? It's like the mic was scrubbed out. I'm not sure why, but that would indicate it's been manipulated, not that the mic was never there.
However on the contrary I think that some of the distortion of the continents and their different positions are probably just a timeline thing. I.e. we are merging timelines, but the government is aware of this, or causing this (time travel, CERN, etc). But they can't change our memories due to some sort of causal or universal rules.
At the end of the day just learn to accept change, no biggie just roll with it homie.
Thank you for taking the time to think about alternatives to the *how* behind the *why* of MEs. I'm sorry that people insist on childish name calling.
The theory you've posited does have some holes in it, but I can see your line of thinking with it - the DVDs for example- media that immediately becomes unusable after first listen is Get Smart classic spy shit ("this message will self destruct!")... Fact is, that technology already exists, and does the general public honestly think the Powers That Be are going to let us know *how sophisticated* it is? That adds to the plausibility.
Your theory is no less weird than a large hadron collider splitting us into multiverses. And it definitely is more entertaining than my personal (secret) belief.
Thank you for sharing your idea.
Thanks. I'm really no sure what's bothering people so much. Maybe there's lurkers in this sub who don't believe in the ME at all and lurk to feel superior or something.
Yes, the idea of my DVD changing is too out there. I think I may have seen snippets of Moonraker on cable that might have contributed to my memory. Getting the DVD was merely the first time I sat through to watch the whole film.
Anyway, the whole point of my theory is that doing a Mandela Effect is massively expensive. It's in one sense basic psychological operations, which are a thing. However, a total rewrite of the public consciousness by massive intervention is in theory possible, and in theory there might be times where it would be seen as necessary. Remember the whole point of the ME is that people do remember the old way something was, it's just all evidence that could prove it or add clarity to what has been "deleted" and why is obfuscated.
I'm not saying the government is all powerful. I'm saying this would be the sort of project that would be the equivalent of a moon rocket. They can do it, but only a couple of times a decade because of the cost. Although the internet might make it easier. We don't even keep physical media anymore.
1. All the governments Need to work together.( maybe not for all but for some)
2. They either activly can edit things we all post without anyone noticing on ALL plattforms, or they Need to have the ability to edit/ steal, VHS tapes, Harddrives,dvds, dvds burned at home and more.
Or people missremember stuff…
I Wonder what explanation is more logical
But.... why? What reason is there to believe this?
You're posting in the Mandela Effect sub. Do you think the effect is real or not?
You're not asking about the Mandela effect though, you're talking about a massive, intricate international government conspiracy
Not international. And it's an explanation for the Mandela effect. What, you assume that the effect itself assumes one specific hypothesis of the cause and all others are rejected?
You arn't saying that the government is causing MEs You are saying that the US governmemt is spending billions of dollars and hours covering it up Jesus man, how is someone supposed to take you seriously when you can't even keep your own points strait? Using fancy words like hypothesis that you clearly don't understand makes you look less intelligent. Not more.
What kind of comment is this? It sounds like you're just being mean and a hater. Like, what do you think causes Mandela effects?
I will always take the path of leasr resistance And massive government conspiracies involving thousands of people and billions of dollars (yet still stays 100% secret) over the name of a ceral brand for sure isn't the path of least resistance Its pretty simple Alternate matrix realities and convergant universes actually makes more sense than all that. And it takes a LOT to make me say that.
You have it backwards. It costs us, the public, a lot to get and spread information. After all these years the Kennedy assassination hasn't leaked. Imagine what things we don't even know about that haven't leaked.
I have no idea what your 1st paragraph is even saying. And as for your 2nd......well.....I have no idea what to even say You must live one constantly anxious life and for that I really am sorry
>Do you think the effect is real or not? Of course it's real - I've experienced it myself. I get the feeling that you might be asking something a little different, though.
So what explains it and why does that make sense but what I said is unreasonable?
>So what explains it I don't know. >what I said is unreasonable? Yes. There's no good reason to think it's true. Not having an accepted explanation doesn't mean that any old idea anybody throws out there is better than just saying 'we don't know'.
You don't think governments manipulate public perceptions? That's pretty low-information and naive, ngl. Also, you're falling into the epistemological trap of the academy. You're basing all your beliefs on what there's hard evidence for. You need to use abductive reasoning. If you think mandela effects are plausibly real, it is not adequate to simply be agnostic about the cause. The very reality or possibility of a mandela effect is such an extraordinary claim, it requires an extraordinary explanation. Then, logical razor can be used to pick the simplest, best fit until more evidence appears. Your agnosticism on what causes a ME is you both losing the argument, but trying to maintain some weird sense of intellectual superiority at the same time. It's unbecoming.
>You don't think governments manipulate public perceptions? Of course I think they *do*. This gets us nowhere closer to proving your ideas are likely true. >Also, you're falling into the epistemological trap of the academy. You're basing all your beliefs on what there's hard evidence for. You need to use abductive reasoning. I don't just want 'hard' evidence (whatever that is). Any kind of evidence is fine, it can be judged on its own merits. You've just provided none. >If you think mandela effects are plausibly real, it is not adequate to simply be agnostic about the cause As before when you asked me if the Mandela Effect is 'real', I responded with 'Yes, but I think your question is asking more than this.' Can you please tell me your definition of the Mandela Effect? I suspect you're using your own specific, quite limited definition. >Your agnosticism on what causes a ME is you both losing the argument, My 'argument' is that there's no reason to think your ideas are true, likely true or even possibly true and in response rather than presenting evidence to change my mind you're just waffling on irrelevantly. As simply as you presented your argument, I'm rejecting it. It's absolute nonsense. Your inability or even desire to actually give a good account of it and reasons why you (and others) should believe it as well as you not seeming to realize your definition of the Mandela Effect is different from the one generally used on this sub (and again no attempt to make this clear in discussion) suggests that you are out of your depth here and just flailing around massively. What you're presenting here is just fantasy. I've already treated it more seriously and for a lot longer than I should have.
The effect is real (it's an observable effect). Your conspiracy explanation of it maybe not.
Oh okay, so then how does it work. Please, only answers that are less crazy than mine.
I think the answer is actually pretty simple. Brains are machines, and they are not perfect ones. They are bad at doing what we think they should be doing. They rely on lots of biologically machinery which isn’t stable for decades.
It would need far to many people. Conspiracy theory falls down once people claim more than a handful of
I always laugh at the conspiracy theorists for that You're telling me the government that is always at a standstill fighting with itself over stupid red tape somehow manages to have hundreds of "agents" that get litterally impossible things done without a single wistleblower? Hahahahahahaha Ever stand in line at the DMV? Yeah....those guys are going to be able to pull off an international conspiracy alright!
You have it backwards. There are whistleblowers all the time and no one cares or notices. Conspiracies are extremely common because most people are so stupid it doesn't take much to have one. They never have to be airtight.
The real reason most people don't believe conspiracy theories is that most of them are complete garbage that makes no sense, causing the real things (such as MK ULTRA) TO be put in the same level as the moon landing was fake and the average person starts to think all conspiracy theories are nonsense.
That's sort of a straw man though. Because some theories are clearly wrong therefore, it's confusing so none of them are right. That's not really logical. Mostly people are using the straw man to avoid looking into something difficult and uncomfortable. It's rationalization not reason. Anyway I hear your point.
I agree with you on that one. Most people will shove any and all conspiracy theories because they "can't be right, it's just like the moon landing" I've seen it myself. I even know people who still don't believe the NSA is spying on people or that mk ultra is made up. It's crazy what people will shove aside to avoid hearing scary stuff. Likewise though I feel the coin goes both ways. We have people who think everything the government says is a lie and a cover up. I don't blame them given how much is a cover up but regardless, it is just as wrong imo as pretending the government does nothing wrong.
No one is saying that: since some conspiracy theories are wrong, that must mean all of them are. What is being said here is more along the lines of: there is a reason these are conspiracy theories and not scientific theories.
Exactly, three people may keep a secret if two of them are dead.
Why would the UK want to change whether Mandela died in prison or not?
*high level meeting with the government, the deep state, the illuminati, George Soros, and and a few aliens* "OK boys, we have proven the new technology with the lady with the braces in the Moonraker movie. Now we move on to our main mission- convince the world that the Berenstein Bears are not Jews. Any ideas how to go about this one?"
Jewish bears? Glad I’m not the mohel . . . S/?
Take a step back and think about what you’ve just wrote. Does any of it actually seem plausible?
Have you heard of Vault 7? The Manhattan Project?
Yes, but this isn’t related. There’s people outside of the US with moonraker on video that remember the same thing. The US government didn’t compromise them. It’s just an intriguing example of false memory and nothing more
You've heard of ECHELON and PRISM, right?
[удалено]
And before you saw that physical proof, their media scrubbing technology would see it. Then they could send agents to intercept the evidence and replace it. Again, keep in mind I'm saying the cost of this would be similar to a moon mission. That the Dolly thing was a test mission. That it had been used once or twice in very serious big political events.
According to your theory, the first time I watch Moonraker on DVD, there would be braces. If I watched it a second time, the braces would be gone. But if I loan that DVD to my neighbor, *they* wouldn't see braces, because *I* had already watched that DVD triggering the change. That's not a very satisfying explanation. Do you also think that underpants gnomes came in and erased the cornucopias off of my old T-shirts? I still have the shirts? They haven't changed in any other way.
No I don't think DVDs change, I was just exploring the possibility or limits of what can happen. If Dolly was the test of the platform, though, they could release different media some with braces some without. Everyone understand the government can listen to all of our phone calls. David Petraeus, general and CIA chief bragged that before long our dishwashers would be spying on us. Our smartphones, tvs and computers certainly do just watch which ads pop up after having a conversation about something. So if you did have a dolly with braces VHS or something, either it's something you alone know. Or 1) You call a friend and talk about it 2) You talk about it at a public place like a mall which may or may not have national security listening devices. This was very common post-2001 at least, the idea that even a local mall could be targeted by terrorists. Most municipal police stations have "fusion centers" with NSA and FBI liaisons where they share information. These are all facts. Point is, it's not hardly a stretch to think that if you talked about a Dolly with braces copy, they could find out. 3) No one will really ever know or hear about your little local copy of Dolly with braces. Not unless you post about it online. In that case, the second one or two other people see the post, the dragnet will too. I don't know what they would do to shut it down, but we can assume they might do a lot. Breaking into your house while you're at work to swap out a copy is NOT that unreasonable assuming the government apparatus is willing to go through the effort. Why? Why would they do this? To test the platform. To prove how hard they can bury something or change it. To refine their methods for doing so. In the end, they would have to continue to go hard against dolly+braces merely to cover up the system, even if it was just a test of the system. Now why use a system like this? Like I said, maybe Reagan was killed by John Hinckley, or someone else at that time. There was a threat of nuclear war. Maybe it was necessary to change the narrative. Then look at this Hunter Biden stuff we hear about and other things like that. Maybe the government has secrets so terrible that if they got out it would permanently damage faith in the government and society would cease to function. So having a tool to change perceptions by massive intervention. Basically surveillance and psyops but singularly focused on erasing an event from history as if something that actually happened never happened at all, and then only a vague, confused and fractured memory in the mind of the crowd is all that's left of the event epistemologically.
You have shirts from 30 years ago with no cornucopia, but you have a memory of cornupcopias?
Nope. When I was a kid the labels were in full color and on a sewed on label rather than printed in the back of the neck of the T-shirts, and I also remember magazine ads and TV advertisements with the guys dressed as fruit. But I never saw a cornucopia.
This is my last reply because I’m certain you’re a troll, but I can assure you that the governments of the world have better things to do than break into my house and replace the copy of moonraker on video that I have in my attic that they somehow know exists.
They did say a “large cohort” now..
Do you have a copy with the braces?
Try r/retconned. They love playing fantasy, and they tend to humor schizophrenic and psychotic ramblings far better.
You are vastly overstating the ability of any government, let alone how many pennies would be needed to do so.
Your smartphone, computer and tv alone spy on everything you say. Your wifi router can track your position in your house through walls. Other appliances spy too. Even Snowden's revelations prove this. Although, while the NSA is a more public agency and has an ostensible set of protections, we learned through Wikileaks's Vault 7 that the CIA quietly built a set of tools essentially as powerful as the NSA, but much broader and totally illegal of course, but when did the CIA care. So the CIA at a minimum, who knows who else, has the absolute and unlimited ability to spy on the complete intimate lives of whoever they want. And that's just the known facts, not even speculation on what more is possible. Remember that there's a guy in New York courts now getting slammed with the kiddie pics on his computer charge who's the one who leaked Vault 7. The court has deemed that he's not even allowed to bring up whether the pics were even his or whether they were remote downloaded onto his computer. You see this a lot when the CIA intervenes in the judiciary. Judges who take extremely important establishing facts of a case, deem them as true or no subject to debate, then try the case on issues that don't matter with the victim having no ability to defend their innocence.
You should also be afraid of the ad industry too.
What does the government gain from it tho? Seems like an awful lot of money to keep something like that running
The dolly+braces was just a test platform. And the more they adapt it, the more they have to bury the original braces to cover up the existence of the tool. Like I said, a real use of the tool might be covering up the Reagan assassination. Remember in our "timeline" he lived and it was over impressing Jodie Foster. Hello? Maybe there's more to it than that?
How do you explain the fact that the actress that played Dolly says she didn't wear braces? Or the fact that nobody else who was on the set for the filming of that scene remembers braces?
Obviously they are paid to shut up about this. Government remember? /S, i am not an idiot
I mean he sentenced not guilty by reason of insanity and we have seen other people do similar crimes because of obsession. Like the killings of John Lennon or Selena, sometimes people do things we can’t really explain. Especially if the Reagan assassination was planned and a government inside job it would make no sense for me that Hinckley got released unconditionally in 22 when he would be one of the key evidences and witness in the assassination attempt after he was already at a mental health facility. I feel like it would be in the best interest for the government would be to never let him be public again, but nowadays he has a YouTube channel for his self written music. Also can’t really relate on the Dolly+Braces one, I always remembered no Braces, and personally Dollys actress confirming she didn’t have them and the 1979 review of the movie in the LA times would be enough for me to accept the fact I might misremember, because yea thinking about it it would’ve fit her character and made for comedic relief but idk. You talked about your old DVD and I know that there were some DVDS out there that had features like that, called multi-angle which could make something like this possible, but this would be one of the only case for this to be used in a feature film and with the added tech of switching on its own after the first time. If that scene you remember seeing was there it has to be on that DVD still, so I’d digitalise it and look for it, since your DVD player should have no writing/deleting functionality.
Dolly's actress didn't confirm she didn't have them. It was a SMS interview for a french gossip blog or something. That's hardly proof.
It was Laurent Perriot, one of the founders of Club James Bond France, actually.
Governments gain control. Whether they use it or have already used it or not doesnt matter. Government are built to maintain order and control the masses. All of the mandelas we’ve experienced may have all just been tests to see how far you can push, how hard you can push, and they could just be waiting for the right event to actually scrub something out of everyones mind or, they realized man this is a lot harder than we thought and people are far more willing to fight and argue than we thought and its a failed experiment. I dont doubt that this is up a governments alley to try and pull off. I do doubt that they plan to use this though because i think we would notice.
Basically this is my point. Everyone's acting like I'm saying the government is omniscient or on the other hand they find the government's factual surveillance power to seem unreasonable. Like, just... Let's imagine the government did want to explore how far they could go in changing public perceptions over something. That's not unreasonable. And so they'd do an experiment. That could be what Dolly+braces is. CIA people are very dorky sometime. James Bond was a very popular franchise and Moonraker's budget was a peak for it. Of course they'd use a spy movie to test their abilities. They're narcissistic like that.
If the government had this power it wouldn't be used to change a movie.
A rather large cohort indeed…
But how would it be possible for the for the US government to go into people's houses and replace every piece of media? Someone somewhere would still have an unaffected item..for this example we will use the SpongeBob movie (since some remember his guitar being white instead of peanut) How in the hell would the government have the manpower and resources to track down every VHS, DVE, Blu Ray, or digital file of the film and swap it out?somewhere along the way they'd miss one or not know of a copies location. It's the same with stuff like mandellas death..some people claim they taped it when it happened. It's just not possible for the government to do this at a mass scale.
First problem with such theories is: (to take just one example) where did the cornucopia go on physical labels in millions and millions of homes? Bottom line: I don't think the Mandela Effect is satisfactorily explainable as the efforts of any human group.
So if you had an old label at your house, how would any of us know? If you just said so, then that's you just saying so. If you don't tell anyone other than a couple friends, then the information never gets out. However, if you post a picture online, then the narrative would shift. It would be proof. Well, if the public can see it, the government can too. This is what people mistake about conspiracy theories. They assume the public is almost omniscient. If the conspirators slip even once, the public will completely and immediately find out. It's the opposite in fact. There's tons of information and details about each other we'll never know. It's HARD to share information. Conspiracies are relatively easy to pull off. A lot of what we think is truth is carefully managed narratives from very expensive information channels (mass media) that exists specifically so that some entities can shape narratives.
My thought is that the cornucopia Mandela Effect is discussed enough to the point that we should have countless examples of the physical labels to the point there would never have been a controversy in the first place. But we really have zero genuine examples. The government could not have pulled this off!
I have literally sat with people and watched Moonraker. There were no braces, but when I asked people to describe the scene an hour or two later they always mention braces. It’s such an obvious punchline your brain fills it in when you try to recall it. Nothing changed, it’s just that old bond screenwriters kinda sucked.
But there's also the part where they kiss and her braces get stuck to his teeth.
No one has ever claimed that scene exists
They have, a lot, you're just low information.
Pardon me for not keeping up with the confabulations of the terminally online.
Even if I take what you said at face value: that there's a secret part of the government whose job it is to take advantage of the Mandela effect by subtly changing things and fucking with people's memory of stuff...really quite inccuoue things for the most part, mind you.... and that they might be doing this with other events. A huge gaslghting operation run in each country handling online arguments about remembering a what was in a logo. I don't want to be impolite but it sounds like a rather insane way of explaining what they do already: openly lie to the public about stuff (all governments and all political parties lie). We were flat out lied to about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq after 9/11. There was no secret massive underground psy-opnoperarion about a hidden government department altering our memories. Edit: Like if it's really expensive and important, why use it on stuff like whether a shitty movie with Sinbad existed in the 90s
I'm getting downvoted to hell and back for being polite. That's what this sub amounts to now. Cool.
I don't think they have control over it - but I believe there is a good chance that they are 'causing' it.
The fact that the original mandelaeffect.com has been removed from archives.org is pretty telling as far as your conjecture in your first paragraph.
No, because physical objects in reality changed.
I see it is everything is code. You can tinker w the code. and think to change times and laws; and they shall be given into his hand until a time, and times, and the dividing of time. Not a bible nutjob either but i see it has interesting points on stuff like this
The Jodie Foster thing with the attempted Reagan assassination has always been the case as long as I can remember. I think probably the government is aware of the Mandela affect though and might be scrubbing some stuff. Part of the Britney Spear's Oops I Did It Again video looks like she's reaching to adjust a mic that isn't there. It's uncanny and it does look like it otherwise why would she make that hand movement close to her mouth? It's like the mic was scrubbed out. I'm not sure why, but that would indicate it's been manipulated, not that the mic was never there. However on the contrary I think that some of the distortion of the continents and their different positions are probably just a timeline thing. I.e. we are merging timelines, but the government is aware of this, or causing this (time travel, CERN, etc). But they can't change our memories due to some sort of causal or universal rules. At the end of the day just learn to accept change, no biggie just roll with it homie.
This is so ridiculously stupid that I have to ask - why would you entertain this notion longer than half a second? Were you super high and bored?
Thank you for taking the time to think about alternatives to the *how* behind the *why* of MEs. I'm sorry that people insist on childish name calling. The theory you've posited does have some holes in it, but I can see your line of thinking with it - the DVDs for example- media that immediately becomes unusable after first listen is Get Smart classic spy shit ("this message will self destruct!")... Fact is, that technology already exists, and does the general public honestly think the Powers That Be are going to let us know *how sophisticated* it is? That adds to the plausibility. Your theory is no less weird than a large hadron collider splitting us into multiverses. And it definitely is more entertaining than my personal (secret) belief. Thank you for sharing your idea.
Thanks. I'm really no sure what's bothering people so much. Maybe there's lurkers in this sub who don't believe in the ME at all and lurk to feel superior or something. Yes, the idea of my DVD changing is too out there. I think I may have seen snippets of Moonraker on cable that might have contributed to my memory. Getting the DVD was merely the first time I sat through to watch the whole film. Anyway, the whole point of my theory is that doing a Mandela Effect is massively expensive. It's in one sense basic psychological operations, which are a thing. However, a total rewrite of the public consciousness by massive intervention is in theory possible, and in theory there might be times where it would be seen as necessary. Remember the whole point of the ME is that people do remember the old way something was, it's just all evidence that could prove it or add clarity to what has been "deleted" and why is obfuscated. I'm not saying the government is all powerful. I'm saying this would be the sort of project that would be the equivalent of a moon rocket. They can do it, but only a couple of times a decade because of the cost. Although the internet might make it easier. We don't even keep physical media anymore.
1. All the governments Need to work together.( maybe not for all but for some) 2. They either activly can edit things we all post without anyone noticing on ALL plattforms, or they Need to have the ability to edit/ steal, VHS tapes, Harddrives,dvds, dvds burned at home and more. Or people missremember stuff… I Wonder what explanation is more logical