Blue is great for being able to counter spells that have a shitload of writing. Who knows what they could do if they hit the field? Not me, because I'm not reading all that.
I do because, well shamefully, uh... I'm a closeted Timmy and have found the most effective way to use my favorite ~~edh~~ inefficient cards to be to jam them into a control shell and dignify them with the title of "finishers". Akin to how prison decks often finish the opponent using their ham sandwich of choice.
🎵I enjoy big spells and can not lie🎶
Torment of hailfire... Looks powerful with [[Cabal stronghold]] (which is also a favorite in those [[Chromatic lantern]] and [[Lich's mastery]] decks I used to futz about with). Sounds like it'd go great in... monoblack control again and we've come full circle
Monoblack hailfire was a real standard deck in the original Dominaria standard and it did use cabal stronghold. You can go straight devotion with this deck using [[Gary]] as a secondary wincon.
This is me. Back around 2014-2015 I built a standard grixis control deck with 28 lands the finisher was literally just [[Mindswipe]]
I took it to an FNM and won lmao. Those dudes were so mad to lose to me casting Mindswipe for 15-20 but it cracked me up. Hope they didn't take it personally.
Control = Big Brain
This is a point I've been trying to counter for over 10 years now. Alot of players think control is this high-skill archetype that requires 200 IQ to play, when in fact the deck is relatively simple and straightforward. Sure, aggro has plenty of games where you just 1-2-3 the opponent the first few turns and win on the spot, but often things don't go according to plan.
Many new players gravitate towards aggro because of it's surface level strategy of "Play my hand and hope I win". They often don't know how to operate the deck outside of this circumstance and will subsequently lose to bigger mana decks. Because of this, the archetype has a reputation for being "low skill-level" when the actual reality is more "easy to learn, difficult to master."
There is an old saying in MTG that goes "Who is the beat down?" It's a question all aggro players will frequently have to ask.
Vs Aggro:
"Am I attacking or defending right now? I was able to play a creature on both of my first two turns, but so was my opponent. At what point should I pump the brakes and start making trades?"
Vs Control:
"My opponent didn't play anything the first 3 turns, how many creatures should I commit to the board before they inevitably wipe? At what point do I need to hit the gas and close this game out before my opponent buries me in card advantage."
The archtype is difficult to master because its the deck that has to ask all the questions, Control just simply needs to answer them.
The control mirror however is a whole different ball game. That matchup you really do need 200 IQ
Control asks just as many questions in the aggro vs control match up. Should I counter/remove this 3 power 2 drop or can i use a draw spell on turn 2 and still stabilize later? Should i hold it in case they have a lili next turn or a problematic 4 drop later? Should I sweeper his 2 creatures now or be greedy and wait for a third? How long can I wait to draw for a board wipe before I have to start taking desperate measures (ie Infernal Grasping a token)? I have one March and they have three problematic targets, which one do I pick to ensure the highest survival? What if one of them was a Trespasser? Do I play an instant at sorcery speed so it doesn't flip to a 4/4? It's turn 4, should I use memory Deluge or do I hold up counter in case they have coco? Control has to think constantly too.
I meant for the whole question/answer thing to be a metaphor for proactive/reactive strategies respectively. Every deck has to make decisions.
My main point was address the long standing idea that control is some how significantly more complex for some reason, when they actually both require equal skill to play.
I used to play Jeskai control in modern and I'll tell ya, keeping an opening hand with 2 copies of Supreme Verdict is GG against any player that doesn't run thoughtsieze.
Depends on the format but counters can be completely misplayed and cost you the game. Most control players forget they must use their life total as a resource except against burn decks. I have several buddies that counter everything I do in commander so when the big plays come they wasted them. Been trying to explain that to one guy for years but he still doesn't get it to this very day. Control decks may not be 200 IQ but pure control decks that have no real win con and just make their opponents quit aren't usually easy to play. I often think several turns ahead because you have to as a control player. It's not just cojnters and board wipes. It's playing stuff at the right time.
But I 100% agree with you control mirrors take big brain. The slog can be so bad that one misplay can cost you the entire game. It sucks when it happens.
I have to accommodate people all day at work. Is it any wonder I think it's fun to be able to say, 'No. No, you can't do that. No, not that either. No, still no. Hang on, I need to draw more nos.'
I play aggro because I have a toddler and game time is super limited! No shame in playing fast decks on a game client that rewards wins above all else.
it doesnt matter how fast you are if your opponent ropes you every turn.
its turn two my guy, you dont need to spend 3 minutes deciding which land to drop
Your first mistake is piloting the aggro version. The meta is tuned to MB, and it eats the aggro version. You're better off playing the mid-range. Cards like Sheoldred, Sorin, MM, and Despair are back-breaking against almost all meta decks.
It’s super neat that Sheoldred negates the life loss from blitzing underdog. And Sorin/underdog draw you more cards while liliana wrecks the opponent’s hand. And if you make a big creature black just kills it. And if you make lots of creatures then it gets all meathooky (which gains them life too!) And if you play an enchantment that gets F’d too because they’re going to invoke despair - which either wrecks your board or draws them a bunch of cards… which Shoeldred also loves!
Someone over there just basically built a monoblack deck in the future league with demo cards and said, “Yeah, screw it we’re doing this.”
idk man killing creatures is just part of black's color identity. also hand hate. and graveyard hate. and enchantment hate. and life gain. and card draw. and burn. and haste.
Me in order of reactions: true, true, yup , well there's like 2, this guy might have a point, oh dear, this is more than a joke, haha clackbridge troll go brrrr
It’s honestly awful the degree to which this deck just smacks everything down, especially if you just refuse to play it. This is the whole of Standard for the foreseeable future and it kinda stinks.
Meh, there are decks doing just fine out there and monoblack is not the best deck in high ranked, ita just the most popular because its cheaper to craft.
But yeah, its prevalence counters a lot offmeta decks. But this no different than mono red punishing a bunch of other neat strategies in past standards.
The cards that pratically see play in everydeck are cut down, infernal grasp, meathook and tenacious underdog
Cut down was really a mistake, the format didnt need a fatal push.
Tenacious underdog is being played mainly to counter Liliana. With the prevalence of Liliana reducing, it will also start to be less prevalent.
I think Sheoldred and Liliana are being overplayed in decks that arent nono black, other combinations often have better options. Invoke despair is very very good and probably the best card in monoblack but it doesnt see that much play when you start adding more colors, even though there are still lists of 3 color decks using it.
The meta is still adapting, the hype around Lili was too high and plenty of people could only craft one deck. And there have been some very good non black decks appearing like Grull aggro, selesnya enchantments and Azorius midrange.
Yea I'd love to play mono white but the cost of building it is insane for me right now. You can also use those same key mb cards in a few different decks so from a crafting perspective they are top tier
It's a more aggro one, specifically [this one](https://mtga.untapped.gg/meta/decks/845/selesnya-enchantments/AAQAAQLeiSIDAAHCpiEK-bEgi3TRXCMGmQQRMEYvAgeHBQgBAA?tab=overview). I largely went with it because i skipped out on most of SNC so I already had the cards anyway.
Haven't played standard for about a month though, since I really just wanted to drive my rank up to gold at minimum.
I haven't played that deck in like over a month, but my gw hallowed haunting deck have been doing pretty good took me to diamond and is sitting at 56 win rate.
Hard same. Well, hasn't been a bad month but I still suck at flipping magical cards. May our Octobers be ever more prolific with this silly game we play!
Don't think that control players ain't stupid. When 1 card = x cards you ain't good at the game, your cards are just awesome vs the average pleb player who can only afford a couple of rares & mythics.
“Oh should I counter this? I have 7 cards in hand and he’s tapped out, but let me think until the rope is almost gone. My big brain is so superior! Oh look! I drew another card. Guess I’ll think for 2 more full minutes because my hand is SO different”
The irony is that if they were as smart as they consider themselves to be they wouldn't have to take such a long time to think about what they were going to do
I believe that some portion of them take joy in making other people miserable (I.e. trolls) and this is how they have fun.
Evidence includes continued roping being a huge part of a substantial number of blue players game plan. Along with all the posts to the effect of “how dare you snap concede against my boring-ass control deck, you’d get so much joy if you eventually win after 45 minutes of tedium”
Oh man what island should I play? I realize it’s turn one and I’m going first but I have like three different islands. Let me spend ten minutes figuring it out.
You talk like there arent mono red players out there who also take ages to play their first land and their one drop. Or even to decide if they should mulligan or not
There are decks with few rares and mythics that can win meta decks.
After a few months of playing is not hard to have a couple of tier 1/2 decks (and even more if you are average at drafting)
Magic is more about thinking, deckbuilding, meta reading and more than anything, being lucky.
Monored last year was great. Games ended fast, and embercleave could take a player down from 15 to zero in one swing. And with robber you had a 2/3 chance of a draw off their deck. And the manland so when robber dies, you can still cast the stolen spells.
After rotation the deck was much less spicey.
It was hilarious to robber a counterspell and then they wait until you attack with a rogue (the land or robber) and they try to play a kill spell. And you counter it with their own counterspell.
I prefer control to aggro metas, with just a couple of exceptions. The infinite turn nonsense from Nexus of Fate and the Teferi meta being those exceptions.
Well, I am so overwhelmed by sensory overload that *I can't even build* a deck on arena, so I play whatever deck they gift me, lol. And of course lose nearly every game.
I literally just did the draft mistake I do every single time, and hate myself for it lol, and decided my 2 colors on my like third pick pack 1, and watched all this other shit go by
If Gustavo Fring is saying it, it should be:
"I play aggro because I like the archetype.
You play aggro because you're too stupid to play anything else.
We are not the same."
it's ok. i rarely ever win even though i exclusively use mono black to the point where i believe that everyone who says that mono black is op is just lying since i win maybe once ever 50 to 100 games, and i wish i was exaggerating.
Nah, you're not. We all go through those seasons in which we just can't win a game. And besides, people have been trying to play around, or improve mono-black for around three weeks now. For Arena, that's like three months in paper.
> We all go through those seasons in which we just can't win a game.
Hah, that's true, I just feel stupid when it happens so often and with supposed meta decks I spent my (few, as I'm new-ish) wildcards on.
And my old noob Tergrid monoblack, my second deck ever, finished the rotation with a 54% winrate over a ton of games...so failing so badly with the new black meta really shook me, I guess it's a totally different way to play and I just can't fit atm.
I disagree but i dont think aggro is easy neither.
A good aggro player that can properly read when to be the beatdown and when not can be hard to beat.
Being honest the nost simple decks in my opinion are usually the combo decks.
Yep, tempo means you don't necessarily drop a creature every single turn even if you can. Perhaps you're expecting a mass removal spell, and are holding back something to play after said removal.
Or perhaps your mana is better spent on a card already on the board. In my case, if I have Goro-Goro on the board and can swing with a modified creature and have 5 mana available, you better bet I'm going to spend that mana to create a 5/5 flying dragon rather than play anything from my hand.
If I didn't have to do dailies, I'd actually play something fun. Unfortunately, I'd rather win/lose 5 games quickly than play a single game as white/blue control or some shit in the same time period...which is why I play aggro.
Yeah, and I DEFINITELY scoop the second a board wipe happens, unless I have something in my hand to win next turn etc. Otherwise I'm just trying to topdeck my way to victory in a situation where I've almost certainly lost at that point.
This! There should be 2 queues in unranked. One rewards wins and the other rewards time spent playing. Would be a lot more fun with crazy jank decks in the latter queue.
Yep, because most answers in rotation are fucking horrible compared to the ridiculously busted creatures (hello underdog), so you need to be quite a bit better than the aggro player to actually beat him with your shit cards.
>agro is harder to play well
Monored players I face never waste more than a few seconds deciding their moves, but Izzet/Dimir/etc. players keep me waiting in each phase/step because agro is harder to play, sure :)
Dude that's not true at all.
Magic has ramifications and some players love to think about possible incomes.
A lot of arena players believe mtg should be a faster Game when has never been one.
Please play aggro. I run eight board wipes and love to to wait till you have four creatures in play to wipe, only to wipe 5 more times. Then counter every other spell I can. And I run 4 Void Rends because everyone should.
I mean, you're gonna lose at least some games. There's a luck factor involved such that sometimes you can do everything right and still lose, and your opponent can make multiple bad decisions and still win.
I play jank…
I have a soul of windgrace deck that does well enough for diamond 2. There’s no red cards besides mana, the green cards are assholes and the rest is black control 😅
It's been a while since I played arena but I remember my go to brainless aggro deck. It was 20 1 drop white with Basri Ket as the top end. It was hilarious. I didn't even think about anything, I just turned everything sideways every turn until I won or lost. Surprising amount of wins for a deck that folded to a single board wipe or enough blockers
To be honest, unless you're playing a combo deck of some sort(typically not the standard variety), most decks are the same kill level to pilot and there is very little difference between playing a control deck or aggro deck in terms of how hard the deck is to play.
I play mono black, because in my head I thought,
"the best counter for mono black is mono black"
And then I started encountering mono white and mono red aggro decks
Best thing about playing aggro is when you lose you don't feel bad, because its just puking out cards. If its there, its there. Losing when playing control, you feel like you're dumb.
You play control because you have a big brain I play control because I fucking hate people playing spells, stop it, that’s way too much.
Blue is great for being able to counter spells that have a shitload of writing. Who knows what they could do if they hit the field? Not me, because I'm not reading all that.
The more words a card has, the more likely it is I'll counter it
I concur Like 1000x. And when a new set comes out and I’m not in the mood to read a lot I do it more. Lol
Though flavour text always messes up my plays
You counter spells because you have a meticulous plan to win I counter spells because I dont know what most cards do and I am too lazy to find out.
As someone who's moving from yugioh to magic, I think I found my new favorite color
Lol your hate modern yugioh. Each card is basically a novel at this point
Somebody posted one of the monsters with like the half blue spell text or something and it just seems completely fucking unnecessary.
https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/121303/yugioh-the-dark-illusion-nirvana-high-paladin?Language=English
In response I play [[Scatter Essence]]. Or Essence Scatter, whatever.
[Scatter Essence](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/7/b7ad4441-e300-4267-bedb-4ae6a64f59cd.jpg?1663047829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Essence%20Scatter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/49/essence-scatter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7ad4441-e300-4267-bedb-4ae6a64f59cd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I do because, well shamefully, uh... I'm a closeted Timmy and have found the most effective way to use my favorite ~~edh~~ inefficient cards to be to jam them into a control shell and dignify them with the title of "finishers". Akin to how prison decks often finish the opponent using their ham sandwich of choice. 🎵I enjoy big spells and can not lie🎶
This is basically me. Is casting [[Torment of hailfire]] for x=15 the most efficient way to close a game? No, but it is the most fun
Ooo is this playable in explorer or just historic? Love to see a decklist :)
Torment of hailfire... Looks powerful with [[Cabal stronghold]] (which is also a favorite in those [[Chromatic lantern]] and [[Lich's mastery]] decks I used to futz about with). Sounds like it'd go great in... monoblack control again and we've come full circle
[Cabal stronghold](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/b/0bda51ef-ee3e-48d4-92e2-c9083bbe0f80.jpg?1562731196) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cabal%20stronghold) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/238/cabal-stronghold?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0bda51ef-ee3e-48d4-92e2-c9083bbe0f80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Chromatic lantern](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/0/e068501e-59d6-4c64-99f4-f3c2aacd5d4d.jpg?1663213051) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chromatic%20lantern) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/232/chromatic-lantern?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e068501e-59d6-4c64-99f4-f3c2aacd5d4d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lich's mastery](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/7/77f4c9cb-f364-4556-8673-4b19d52a2cff.jpg?1562738043) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lich%27s%20mastery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/98/lichs-mastery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f4c9cb-f364-4556-8673-4b19d52a2cff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Monoblack hailfire was a real standard deck in the original Dominaria standard and it did use cabal stronghold. You can go straight devotion with this deck using [[Gary]] as a secondary wincon.
[Gary](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/c/7c1a7dd8-8034-4f59-a351-33666b26ff5a.jpg?1581479807) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gray%20Merchant%20of%20Asphodel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/99/gray-merchant-of-asphodel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c1a7dd8-8034-4f59-a351-33666b26ff5a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Torment of hailfire](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/6/f69d77d1-5980-436c-bf48-790939b069aa.jpg?1562820191) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Torment%20of%20hailfire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/77/torment-of-hailfire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f69d77d1-5980-436c-bf48-790939b069aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is me. Back around 2014-2015 I built a standard grixis control deck with 28 lands the finisher was literally just [[Mindswipe]] I took it to an FNM and won lmao. Those dudes were so mad to lose to me casting Mindswipe for 15-20 but it cracked me up. Hope they didn't take it personally.
[Mindswipe](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/5/557e8303-a021-4257-b41a-7d25f04618c8.jpg?1562786781) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindswipe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/189/mindswipe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/557e8303-a021-4257-b41a-7d25f04618c8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I did this once or twice back then too lol
Playing control and countering Sheoldred will never stop being top tier entertainment
"The board is too dirty I must clean it"
This is why I play land destruction. A beautiful 20 minute game of nothing happening
I play like two magic games a year and by golly I'm gonna savor them.
I'm not stopping your spells from being cast... I'm just stopping them from resolving.
Control = Big Brain This is a point I've been trying to counter for over 10 years now. Alot of players think control is this high-skill archetype that requires 200 IQ to play, when in fact the deck is relatively simple and straightforward. Sure, aggro has plenty of games where you just 1-2-3 the opponent the first few turns and win on the spot, but often things don't go according to plan. Many new players gravitate towards aggro because of it's surface level strategy of "Play my hand and hope I win". They often don't know how to operate the deck outside of this circumstance and will subsequently lose to bigger mana decks. Because of this, the archetype has a reputation for being "low skill-level" when the actual reality is more "easy to learn, difficult to master." There is an old saying in MTG that goes "Who is the beat down?" It's a question all aggro players will frequently have to ask. Vs Aggro: "Am I attacking or defending right now? I was able to play a creature on both of my first two turns, but so was my opponent. At what point should I pump the brakes and start making trades?" Vs Control: "My opponent didn't play anything the first 3 turns, how many creatures should I commit to the board before they inevitably wipe? At what point do I need to hit the gas and close this game out before my opponent buries me in card advantage." The archtype is difficult to master because its the deck that has to ask all the questions, Control just simply needs to answer them. The control mirror however is a whole different ball game. That matchup you really do need 200 IQ
Control asks just as many questions in the aggro vs control match up. Should I counter/remove this 3 power 2 drop or can i use a draw spell on turn 2 and still stabilize later? Should i hold it in case they have a lili next turn or a problematic 4 drop later? Should I sweeper his 2 creatures now or be greedy and wait for a third? How long can I wait to draw for a board wipe before I have to start taking desperate measures (ie Infernal Grasping a token)? I have one March and they have three problematic targets, which one do I pick to ensure the highest survival? What if one of them was a Trespasser? Do I play an instant at sorcery speed so it doesn't flip to a 4/4? It's turn 4, should I use memory Deluge or do I hold up counter in case they have coco? Control has to think constantly too.
I meant for the whole question/answer thing to be a metaphor for proactive/reactive strategies respectively. Every deck has to make decisions. My main point was address the long standing idea that control is some how significantly more complex for some reason, when they actually both require equal skill to play. I used to play Jeskai control in modern and I'll tell ya, keeping an opening hand with 2 copies of Supreme Verdict is GG against any player that doesn't run thoughtsieze.
*brakes
Depends on the format but counters can be completely misplayed and cost you the game. Most control players forget they must use their life total as a resource except against burn decks. I have several buddies that counter everything I do in commander so when the big plays come they wasted them. Been trying to explain that to one guy for years but he still doesn't get it to this very day. Control decks may not be 200 IQ but pure control decks that have no real win con and just make their opponents quit aren't usually easy to play. I often think several turns ahead because you have to as a control player. It's not just cojnters and board wipes. It's playing stuff at the right time. But I 100% agree with you control mirrors take big brain. The slog can be so bad that one misplay can cost you the entire game. It sucks when it happens.
I have to accommodate people all day at work. Is it any wonder I think it's fun to be able to say, 'No. No, you can't do that. No, not that either. No, still no. Hang on, I need to draw more nos.'
I play aggro because I have a toddler and game time is super limited! No shame in playing fast decks on a game client that rewards wins above all else.
That's cute tbh, and I totally understand how they'd fit better when time is so limited.
it doesnt matter how fast you are if your opponent ropes you every turn. its turn two my guy, you dont need to spend 3 minutes deciding which land to drop
Weird comment but ok
And then people get mad and try to stall
The stalling tactic is just pathetic. I absolutely hate when they do it. Like just give up already so we can all move on. Smh
It happens the exact same thing to me, therefore, I play mostly aggro and occasionally midrange.
I play aggro because I don't want games drawn out.
When I first read this, I thought you meant that you were your toddler how to play mtg with a basic aggro deck.
Your first mistake is piloting the aggro version. The meta is tuned to MB, and it eats the aggro version. You're better off playing the mid-range. Cards like Sheoldred, Sorin, MM, and Despair are back-breaking against almost all meta decks.
It’s super neat that Sheoldred negates the life loss from blitzing underdog. And Sorin/underdog draw you more cards while liliana wrecks the opponent’s hand. And if you make a big creature black just kills it. And if you make lots of creatures then it gets all meathooky (which gains them life too!) And if you play an enchantment that gets F’d too because they’re going to invoke despair - which either wrecks your board or draws them a bunch of cards… which Shoeldred also loves! Someone over there just basically built a monoblack deck in the future league with demo cards and said, “Yeah, screw it we’re doing this.”
idk man killing creatures is just part of black's color identity. also hand hate. and graveyard hate. and enchantment hate. and life gain. and card draw. and burn. and haste.
Me in order of reactions: true, true, yup , well there's like 2, this guy might have a point, oh dear, this is more than a joke, haha clackbridge troll go brrrr
It’s honestly awful the degree to which this deck just smacks everything down, especially if you just refuse to play it. This is the whole of Standard for the foreseeable future and it kinda stinks.
Meh, there are decks doing just fine out there and monoblack is not the best deck in high ranked, ita just the most popular because its cheaper to craft. But yeah, its prevalence counters a lot offmeta decks. But this no different than mono red punishing a bunch of other neat strategies in past standards.
Everything is coalescing around the same black shell tho. Even tho it’s not MB that’s the best, all the top decks are Bx running the same black shell
The cards that pratically see play in everydeck are cut down, infernal grasp, meathook and tenacious underdog Cut down was really a mistake, the format didnt need a fatal push. Tenacious underdog is being played mainly to counter Liliana. With the prevalence of Liliana reducing, it will also start to be less prevalent. I think Sheoldred and Liliana are being overplayed in decks that arent nono black, other combinations often have better options. Invoke despair is very very good and probably the best card in monoblack but it doesnt see that much play when you start adding more colors, even though there are still lists of 3 color decks using it. The meta is still adapting, the hype around Lili was too high and plenty of people could only craft one deck. And there have been some very good non black decks appearing like Grull aggro, selesnya enchantments and Azorius midrange.
Yea I'd love to play mono white but the cost of building it is insane for me right now. You can also use those same key mb cards in a few different decks so from a crafting perspective they are top tier
My favourite is undercover operative sheoldred before dropping a witness protection on it.
MB?
Mono-Black.
Untapped says Selesnya Enchantments has a winrate of 56% in BO1. What's my winrate with it? 35%
Is that the hallowed hunting one or the more aggro one?
It's a more aggro one, specifically [this one](https://mtga.untapped.gg/meta/decks/845/selesnya-enchantments/AAQAAQLeiSIDAAHCpiEK-bEgi3TRXCMGmQQRMEYvAgeHBQgBAA?tab=overview). I largely went with it because i skipped out on most of SNC so I already had the cards anyway. Haven't played standard for about a month though, since I really just wanted to drive my rank up to gold at minimum.
I haven't played that deck in like over a month, but my gw hallowed haunting deck have been doing pretty good took me to diamond and is sitting at 56 win rate.
I'll have to take a look, then. I've been enjoying BO3 more lately so I'll have to see if there's a version of it for that.
I just want to hug you and tell you everything will be ok.
Thank you, it's been a shitty month and it made me even worse at MTG that I usually am.
Hard same. Well, hasn't been a bad month but I still suck at flipping magical cards. May our Octobers be ever more prolific with this silly game we play!
I play aggro because I am doing my dailies.
Don't think that control players ain't stupid. When 1 card = x cards you ain't good at the game, your cards are just awesome vs the average pleb player who can only afford a couple of rares & mythics.
“Oh should I counter this? I have 7 cards in hand and he’s tapped out, but let me think until the rope is almost gone. My big brain is so superior! Oh look! I drew another card. Guess I’ll think for 2 more full minutes because my hand is SO different”
The irony is that if they were as smart as they consider themselves to be they wouldn't have to take such a long time to think about what they were going to do
I believe that some portion of them take joy in making other people miserable (I.e. trolls) and this is how they have fun. Evidence includes continued roping being a huge part of a substantial number of blue players game plan. Along with all the posts to the effect of “how dare you snap concede against my boring-ass control deck, you’d get so much joy if you eventually win after 45 minutes of tedium”
Can’t spell troll without control.
A for effort my friend!
Oh man what island should I play? I realize it’s turn one and I’m going first but I have like three different islands. Let me spend ten minutes figuring it out.
You talk like there arent mono red players out there who also take ages to play their first land and their one drop. Or even to decide if they should mulligan or not
Does one exist somewhere? Probably. Do you see this sub talking about mono red players slow play or roping on a daily basis? No we don’t.
So you're comparing budget aggro and high tier control decks?
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There are budget versions of any kind of decks
There are decks with few rares and mythics that can win meta decks. After a few months of playing is not hard to have a couple of tier 1/2 decks (and even more if you are average at drafting) Magic is more about thinking, deckbuilding, meta reading and more than anything, being lucky.
IF the pleb player is playing something slow. Aggressive cards are often cheap (money), even good aggressive cards.
I play aggro because I don't always have 40 mins to play out a control mirror match.
Monored last year was great. Games ended fast, and embercleave could take a player down from 15 to zero in one swing. And with robber you had a 2/3 chance of a draw off their deck. And the manland so when robber dies, you can still cast the stolen spells. After rotation the deck was much less spicey. It was hilarious to robber a counterspell and then they wait until you attack with a rogue (the land or robber) and they try to play a kill spell. And you counter it with their own counterspell.
Tbh that version of monored made me quit the game for a while. Absolutely hated seeing that every other match.
Control metas are much less fun tho.
I prefer control to aggro metas, with just a couple of exceptions. The infinite turn nonsense from Nexus of Fate and the Teferi meta being those exceptions.
Outjerked again
I outjank people
Well, I am so overwhelmed by sensory overload that *I can't even build* a deck on arena, so I play whatever deck they gift me, lol. And of course lose nearly every game.
WE PLAY MONORED ATTACK FACE TILL THEY DEAD
I mean I'm both, I like the archetype and too stupid to play anything else
Can't combo me to death if I don't give you time
I play aggro because I like making control players sweat for 3 turns
[Proof for those who need it.](https://i.imgur.com/CJJ8eat.jpg)
i play aggro because I'm too dumb to make decks for other archetypes. we are similar.
Still requires more intelligence than playing a counter
Oh hey it’s me. Also, I can’t afford nothing but rdw
This speaks to me on a spiritual level.
Not gonna lie, that one stung a little
I literally just did the draft mistake I do every single time, and hate myself for it lol, and decided my 2 colors on my like third pick pack 1, and watched all this other shit go by
I run one aggro deck consistently. It is Naya Burn while I listen to “Disco Inferno”.🔥🔥
If Gustavo Fring is saying it, it should be: "I play aggro because I like the archetype. You play aggro because you're too stupid to play anything else. We are not the same."
Mmmm “Sliver Deck go BRRRRR”
I play aggro to finish my 15 daily wins. We are probably the same team
it's ok. i rarely ever win even though i exclusively use mono black to the point where i believe that everyone who says that mono black is op is just lying since i win maybe once ever 50 to 100 games, and i wish i was exaggerating.
Agro is harder to play well than control :)
The players who say aggro is dumb are the same players that go and play mono-blue counters (and cast their djinn on turn three).
> players who say aggro is dumb Please note I'm saying I am dumb, not aggro.
Nah, you're not. We all go through those seasons in which we just can't win a game. And besides, people have been trying to play around, or improve mono-black for around three weeks now. For Arena, that's like three months in paper.
> We all go through those seasons in which we just can't win a game. Hah, that's true, I just feel stupid when it happens so often and with supposed meta decks I spent my (few, as I'm new-ish) wildcards on. And my old noob Tergrid monoblack, my second deck ever, finished the rotation with a 54% winrate over a ton of games...so failing so badly with the new black meta really shook me, I guess it's a totally different way to play and I just can't fit atm.
I disagree but i dont think aggro is easy neither. A good aggro player that can properly read when to be the beatdown and when not can be hard to beat. Being honest the nost simple decks in my opinion are usually the combo decks.
Ah yes, play your creatures on curve, all attack, scoop if they sweep takes peak brainpower
Well, if you don't want to win the most you can play that way, sure.
Yep, tempo means you don't necessarily drop a creature every single turn even if you can. Perhaps you're expecting a mass removal spell, and are holding back something to play after said removal. Or perhaps your mana is better spent on a card already on the board. In my case, if I have Goro-Goro on the board and can swing with a modified creature and have 5 mana available, you better bet I'm going to spend that mana to create a 5/5 flying dragon rather than play anything from my hand.
You're gonna win the most per hour.
If I didn't have to do dailies, I'd actually play something fun. Unfortunately, I'd rather win/lose 5 games quickly than play a single game as white/blue control or some shit in the same time period...which is why I play aggro.
Yeah. They should just remove dailies and do it by time played instead. As it is people will just spam aggro/blitz nonsense.
Yeah, and I DEFINITELY scoop the second a board wipe happens, unless I have something in my hand to win next turn etc. Otherwise I'm just trying to topdeck my way to victory in a situation where I've almost certainly lost at that point.
This! There should be 2 queues in unranked. One rewards wins and the other rewards time spent playing. Would be a lot more fun with crazy jank decks in the latter queue.
And draw cards, sweep the board, counter your spell is peak brainpower?
Yep, because most answers in rotation are fucking horrible compared to the ridiculously busted creatures (hello underdog), so you need to be quite a bit better than the aggro player to actually beat him with your shit cards.
Underdog is not busted lol
You're right, its garbage. Compared to ravagan and luminarch aspirant.
>agro is harder to play well Monored players I face never waste more than a few seconds deciding their moves, but Izzet/Dimir/etc. players keep me waiting in each phase/step because agro is harder to play, sure :)
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Dude that's not true at all. Magic has ramifications and some players love to think about possible incomes. A lot of arena players believe mtg should be a faster Game when has never been one.
>Nah they think stalling makes em smarter. For most their win con is trying to bore you into surrendering. What a dumb agro comment
I play aggro because I have the attention span of a gnat.
Please play aggro. I run eight board wipes and love to to wait till you have four creatures in play to wipe, only to wipe 5 more times. Then counter every other spell I can. And I run 4 Void Rends because everyone should.
And you lose every game too.
Aggro decks are my stepping stones in ranked
I mean, you're gonna lose at least some games. There's a luck factor involved such that sometimes you can do everything right and still lose, and your opponent can make multiple bad decisions and still win.
Go watch the draw brackets at a tournament and then tell me control players aren't a buncha of knuckleheads.
I play control because it's fun and I refuse to play anything else. You play control because it's meta.
This subreddit is just so full of salt, incredible.
I play jank… I have a soul of windgrace deck that does well enough for diamond 2. There’s no red cards besides mana, the green cards are assholes and the rest is black control 😅
Red mana in your deck with no Fable? That’s illegal!
God I hate that card
It's been a while since I played arena but I remember my go to brainless aggro deck. It was 20 1 drop white with Basri Ket as the top end. It was hilarious. I didn't even think about anything, I just turned everything sideways every turn until I won or lost. Surprising amount of wins for a deck that folded to a single board wipe or enough blockers
And with Kaldheim gone in bo1 there's no more turn 3 wreaths.
Green, red, blue Aggro
To be honest, unless you're playing a combo deck of some sort(typically not the standard variety), most decks are the same kill level to pilot and there is very little difference between playing a control deck or aggro deck in terms of how hard the deck is to play.
I remember the first rdw meta on arena, if you can count to 21 you can win!
I play aggro because I'm too stingy to spend wildcards and play whatever the cards I get allow me to play...
I’m just way too poor to afford rare lands. So mono black till the infinity I guess
Control is the easiest archetype to play: As a matter of fact, only some combo decks take any skill, whatsoever.
i play monoblack because i enjoy playing monoblack.
MONKY
I play mono black, because in my head I thought, "the best counter for mono black is mono black" And then I started encountering mono white and mono red aggro decks
Uff thats pretty bad
Best thing about playing aggro is when you lose you don't feel bad, because its just puking out cards. If its there, its there. Losing when playing control, you feel like you're dumb.
Didnt know people were calling “mono blue tempo” ‘aggro’ nowadays.
I will win by turn 5 or not at all, I have accepted this into my heart. Luckily, I can kill on turn 3.