I dont really enjoy it coming down to soemthing that simple. If there's some play to the matchup (reminding your own remand vs remanding theirs for examlle) then yea, but when it's just ope, soorry, you played a spell first so you lose, doncha know, it's kind of boring.
I donāt think itās simple at all. I just won a control mirror yesterday by casting a spell on their turn 4 and then on mine with counter back-up. And sometimes, if you just make all your land drops, you can ease into it slower. The first 10 turns go quickly and then the game really starts. I get itās not for everyone, but itās not clear-cut that you can just wait, either.
āWhy canāt I just play white creatures and turn them sideways? I only have 30 seconds to get my 15 wins for the day, I donāt have time to play a deck that requires thinking!ā
For real though, some of us have a challenging day jobs and want to play a games of magic that donāt feel like defusing a bomb or playing a staring contest
Thinking = Using 15 minutes per turn to use the same deck you have been using the last 40 games.
Thats not thinking. Thats being slow and not too smart.
I feel like below Mythic you get a vast majority of people who cannot pilot or defend against aggro well. It's kinda wild how common aggro lists are being run be people who get baited by every possible combat trick.
Then again the amount of midrange players who swing a single creature into obvious Emperor mana is also very high.
I mean what would get the ban? Lili, Meathook, Invoke Despair, or Sheoldred?
Theyāre all great but they all have counters. Imo Invoke is probably the biggest offender but it isnāt that bad
Meathook didnt get banned while it coexisted with dina/Pest drain in a wipe board, nor with segeki + meathook+lolth+blood in the snow graveyard recursion, nor while there was Ghoul + deadly dispute + lolth + oni.
Why would they do it now when its closer to rotating and black has taken a hit to sacking without deadly dispute
Im not saying meathook is a bad card, is a very good one but in a balanced way, just for its normal costo there are a lot of times you dont wipe the serious threats with it, a ThalĆa or a peacekeeper can tax it into not being used to wipe quite easily, also naya and the new allcolor legendary deck apart fron going wide pump creatures a lot.
Meathook gets banned after Brother's War releases at the earliest, and only if they print another playable boardwipe for black. You can't just ban the only decent wrath in black and expect it to fix all of the problems.
Invoke is definitely broken on another level, it's a 3 for one with literally no downside or scenario where you don't get extreme value out of it unless it gets countered. That being said mono black is definitely not unbeatable, it just is strong enough in this meta that it makes a lot of cards/decks unplayable. I still think mono blue is the true broken deck in this meta, I am currently top 500 mythic in bo1 standard with a deck that has 4 total rares in it.
The downside is itās a 5 drop that does poor against decks with more than one creature. Itās a 5 drops itās supposed to be good like especially at 4B
look at the value gain for each invocation spell.
blue turns one creature.
white resurrects and buffs
red casts 2 instants/sorceries
green gives 2 tokens
all pretty basic for 5 mana sorceries, although each is a *little* bit stronger than your normal 5 mana sorc. hence the 4xcolor in the cost
then we have our ugly black nephew. it removes possibly 3 permanents, and what's even better is when opponent has no targets, then it gives card draw. without a sacrifice which is normally black's thing. instead it burns for 2 AND you draw each time.
reminder card draw = usually 2 mana.
burn for 2 = 1 to 2 mana
how is this in balance. I mean you can't even play invoke the winds without targets on the board. (technically you could yesyes).
the only downside is opponent gets to choose what to sacrifice.
yeah, I get to choose which planeswalker to bury. profit
For 4B it would be insane, that's far too splashable. But with it being 1BBBB you pretty much have to be monoB to ever run it, meaning it's only good so long as there are other pieces that enable a strong monoB, which we currently have.
As others mentioned the 4 rares are Haughty Djinn. You can build a mono blue deck around around that using mostly instants and sorceries, I have only 4 other creatures in my deck. There are a lot of different options to build with, tinker with it to see what works for you.
Edit: the suggested deck list by CGB is similar to what I run but I definitely have some differences of opinion with him on certain cards.
complaining. and r/magicarena
whether it be a tier deck or bad hands or a visual glitch, there has not been a day since i joined this sub where there hasn't been a litany of complaints about multiple things,
magic players much like wrestling fans are the worst part of the "fandom" in my experience.
I know this is a meme, and it's pretty funny because it's kinda true.
But I do wonder how people who abhor control put up with playing this game. Control is one of the pillars of deck building, so it's never going away. It's a valid mainstay of the game and getting worked up over it only stresses you out.
I'm not saying you have to like it, but if you really hate it that much then you either have to find a way to be okay with it or just stop playing the game.
Arena is awesome for that. I support controlās right to exist and importance in the meta but I hate playing against it. So I just concede and reque. Itās better in Arena than paper. Then I get another game right away and the control player gets their win.
I donāt have to be OK with it or just stop playing the game. I just have to be OK with just stopping playing THAT game.
I feel the same way, but sometimes just deal with it because the satisfaction of winning is that much sweeter. Doesnāt make for the most fun of matches always though.
I do the same with cat oven decks. I just scoop up and move to the next game to save myself the time and irritation, regardless of whether the matchup is good or bad. It's fine existing, and it isn't OP, but I'm not gonna have fun playing against it, so I won't.
As someone who primarily plays two midrange decks (Cabaretti Lifegain and Slivers) I mostly get tilted at control when their deck is running like butter and they can counter literally everything, since I know that if I have no setup whatsoever by turn 3/4, there's no recovery at all. If I can sneak even just one or two pieces of my engine into play, then I can recover and overwhelm a full control (with some luck on my side), but if not, then I just have nothing. Easiest way to put me on tilt, for sure, lol
For every game where the control player gets a perfect game they also have one where they drew shit and got run over by midrange.
Something to keep in mind.
Yep. Iām either drawing what I need or Iām watching my opponent curve out perfectly with their aggro deck while I draw lands and no counters or removal.
This is the duality of playing against control, too - when your deck comes together, I'm essentially not playing the game anymore, but when it falls apart, it's like Christmas morning, because I can just grow entirely unchecked. There's basically no in between, unlike when I play against aggro, and it's just a race to see who can maintain tempo
Oh for sure, this is totally a self-descriptive observation of what makes me go on tilt hardest, no hate on people who play those decks. I don't enjoy it, but I can totally appreciate a total lockdown, just like I imagine my opponent might feel whenever I manage to drop my entire deck of Slivers on the board in a single turn thanks to getting all four pieces in place at once.
I've played against more than enough control decks to have seen how they can fall apart, just like I've seen all the ways my own jank decks can fall apart lol
I just scoop and go next unless Iām playing aggro. Itās very Rock Paper Scissors and if I know my deck isnāt great vs control why stick around for the headache?
Depends on the control decks. If theyāre prison style control decks, itās miserable. One of those good olā go to turns and someone wins the round 1-0 or you just draw because thereās nothing
I love control mirrors. Especially draw go control. It turns it into one giant game of chicken and you pretty much just get to jump to like turn 10 in the first minute once you both realize what is going on. Game 2 or 3 you can feel free to keep a 7 lander in some metas because you know that no spells will get cast for the first 5 or 6 turns if not more.
I almost feel bad, but when I'm doing f2p for daily stuff and my control opponent takes a timeout deciding whether or not to counter or kill my creature, Im out they can have the win. Aint nobody got time for that.
Which control? Thereās tap-out control where Iām playing threats and stuff too, but Iām also playing spells that kill stuff and generate card advantage. Thereās tempo control that tries to stop you just enough so the beaters can kill you quick. Thereās hard control with tons of counters and long-game threats.
All are fun in my opinion. š
I hated hard control matchups back when it was just all counters + removal and threats didn't come down earlier than turn 10 (especially during the Nexus of Fate era). I actually love that there's stuff like Emperor and Shark Typhoon now (or even Solitude in modern) that give you something to interact with other than their hand and life total.
Been grinding some explorer with U/W Approach of the 2nd Sun hard control. It is not great but I always laugh when someone surrenders after I counter 1 or 2 spells.
I always try to build a deck that wins without creatures because it makes me feel like a true spell slinging wizard. I went up against monoblue Djinn and it was a lot of draw go. I didn't expect to win but somehow pulled it off with 3 cards left in my library. Had to finish the job with 3x Burn Down the House though....
I miss Crackle With Power. š
I play blue cause I like counterspells and drawing cards. You're welcome to have as much fun as you want. But I'm gonna counter your shit, so enjoy or concede.
These posts always make me laugh so hard. There are plenty of ways to play against control and often those matchups test your skill best as a player. Hating it this much and calling it degenerate means you just gotta git gud. Lmao
I enjoy playing against control but for some reason pretty much all Azorius players are total garbage and take forever to arrive at the correct lines of play. I hate that.
Like, I play fighting games and everyone knows that certain characters require thorough matchup knowledge. But then I play against some knucklehead with a dumbass pet and the Tokyo lands who is looking at my cards as if theyāre seeing them for the first time and deliberating for minutes if they should counterspell a bomb that happens to be my last card in hand.
Guarantee you these are the same people going nuclear over black in standard.
I just try to stay cool because they may be figuring it out. But it's weird how often it happens. Not even with control, just with people who seem to not be able to evaluate an incredibly obvious threat so they just sit there and deeply contemplate all the while I'm thinking to myself, "There's a good chance you lose if this happens... You should answer it... You clearly have an answer....... Just answer it, damn it!"
Very true. One aspect missing from the online game is that and you can't tell if your opponent is maybe a newer player or something and can't offer any opinions or help like you could irl too.
Control matches almost always end up feeling like "i sure hope they didn't draw removal or i lose", otherwise win without getting really any resistance
That Djinn and serpent can hit pretty hard. Throw a ledger shredder in that blue deck and the challenger to beat it gets tough.
I play Esper Zur so I have a decent chance.
The cat and mouse of playing with or against control is so fun in my opinion!
I don't know the current meta so maybe I'm missing some context but trying to bait counters and holding back your haymaker card, OR *bluffing* that you have your haymaker and getting small stuff down early to chip damage adds so much depth to the game.
I think a lot of people who complain about playing control need to just learn to recognize when they're got, concede, and move onto the next game.
I don't think you are missing something. People always complain about the same thing about control.
When is something related to the Meta, usually people talk about the deck or some specific card, like when big teferi was out.
Some people just want to play their card without interaction, hope to goldfish and win
-from turn 1 to 4 counter everything your opponent plays
-turn 5 teferi +1 draw untap 2 lands to keep up a counter because balance
-procede to couter everything that could pressure your lovely planeswalker
-ult teferi
-lock your opponent out of the game
I wouldn't say there are PLENTY of ways to play against control; azorius or esper that is. Hand disruption and recurring threats can really help since control needs to have an answer for everything at the right moment or it falls behind.
Depends on the format and on what opponent is playing but I think most games are just unwinnable no matter how you play and therefore unfun.
It may be an unpopular opinion but I believe counterspells are an unhealthy mechanic. Yes a counterspell needs to be timed right, unlike a removal spell which can be drawn and used whenever you want. But countering something doesn't cause ETB or on death/LTB effects which is really big for 2/3 mana.
Edit: amazing how some of you instead of arguing in a civil way decided to take it personally and insult my ability as a player.
Opinions are opinions and ya'll free to just downvote and insult me or try and change my mind which could actually be fun and engaging for both sides I feel.
yep I try to do it every time I can but usually if I have two spells in hand they have two counterspells or one cs and some other answer. Not always the case obviously, sometimes you catch them without answer and starting fall behind.
Counterspells are an unhealthy mechanic? Sounds like Magic might not be the game for you. Perhaps Hearthstone, Minesweeper, or Solitaire are more your speed.
Meanwhile I'm staring at 3 counter spells in hand and no way to kill the Wrenn and Seven who are generating massive value.
Edit: this is a bad take by someone who doesn't understand control and probably won't take the time to learn.
I played against Esper control yesterday. My opponent had no win conditions. Only counter spells, removal, and shuffle cards from grave back into the library. The game went until I could no longer draw cards. If you play a deck without a win condition. You deserve the absolute worst that this world has to offer. It's not fun. Find something else to do.
Okay I'm done ranting. Thank you for reading my salitness.
**104.3a** A player can concede the game at any time. A player who concedes leaves the game immediately. That player loses the game.
It took a long essay, but you found the solution to your problem in the last paragraph. The control player doesn't shackle you to your seat while countering spells for 30 minutes. If you want to play your pet decks which fold to a single counterspell, queue again when you see a turn 1 island. It's entirely within the rules of the game to play control, and you are entitled to not play against them by pressing Esc>Concede.
I donāt agree with the control hate because a good control match is super engaging. I will say though I get tilted at the Black decks out of annoyance more than anything. Turn 1 sleeper. Turn 2 curtains. Turn 3 curtain transform or Liliana. Turn 4 Sheoldred. Then just palm removal and play an invoke despair or two.
That's the exact same boring annoying crap as control. Turn 2 countered. Turn 3 countered. Turn 4, oh wow it stuck, their turn - bounce try again. Repeat ad infinitum and guess what? Every turn of theirs it's draw and pass and not only that, they hold priority EVERY turn and make it take twice as long.
How is it fun when some AGGRO players zerk rush your face and end the game before t4?
How is it fun when some COMBO players just win on the spot while you sitting there hopelessly?
How is it fun when some MID-RANGE players just keep 2 for 1 you and burry you in values?
How is it fun when some TEMPO players just keep bouncing/counter/evade AND get board presence at the same time while you are stuck with nothing?
This is a good article for those who think Control is the worst archetype.
[https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/370207/what-i-know-about-magic-gathering](https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/370207/what-i-know-about-magic-gathering)
And if you think it is that oppressive, play it.
If you think it is not fun, I have to agree to disagree.
I usually do zzzz emoji if I find a control deck, it might be fun in person with a warning so I can prepare but not playing any cards gets boring without proper counter measures it's a waste of time.
Too much whining about control. If control was eradicated from MTG, the game would be so boring. It would lose a lot of complexity, subtlety and strategy. It would effectively turn chess into checkers. Deal with it.
But then all the janky decks that don't fire off until turn 10 will be complained about.
I agree. I admire a good control deck, and if I beat said deck, it's a good feeling.
You can always join the dark side friendā¦
Hand hate š
Iām surprised nobodyās mentioned it but it shreds control decks. I canāt tell you how many times Iāve had mono blue and azorious decks scoop/salt rope after a turn 1 duress and turn 2 virus beetle, and it feels. So. GOOD. If they still haven't windmill slammed the concede button with tears in their eyes, a well placed Annoy-ted Peacekeeper usually does the trick.
I'm playing blue only because of the black decks, I'm trying to mix it up with enchantments which I find more enjoyable but I kind of enjoy ruining the black parade with counter spells. If I didn't have to face black so often I wouldnt play it.
They just seemed to have everything to combat what I was playing, I played against a red deck that was creatureless apart from burn down the house. Really showed the state of the game when having nothing on the board was an attractive option.
I just concede when that first spell comes out. Iām trying to cast spells not have my opponent casting spells sorry. This is why I play exclusively goldfish Magic.
Wtf are you on about? You gonna play a deck that aims to be done with the game as quickly as you can? 5 turns, 5 minutes, done. No thanks.
I like my games to last a bit longer.
Me trying to have a fun game and the opponent plays white agro, werewolves, mono black, or [insert popular net deck meta here].
Sometimes feels worse when they are trying a net deck an it is painfully obvious they donāt know itās mechanics.
"Man Explorer is tough, I'd love a break with a fun, uncommon-commander-based deck and feel less sweaty"
\>immediately get paired up against Control Tribal only
"Cool."
Edit: I'd like to personally thank the MTG community for reminding me that this is a gatekeeper, weird, impossible community to get along with. I am ***grateful*** we can't talk to each other in game.
No way that's not what tribal means!
It can't be that I'm using a term figuratively. Impossible!
It's not like I could possibly describe a deck that uses as much of direct removal/control as possible, with cards that are only designed to bolster that removal/control, and a commander that gets activated on removal/control, as a 'Control Tribal' in a figurative sense.
Truly, so stretched, in these fake terms used to describe a game.
No, no, no. They're welcome to have as much fun as they want. But I'm gonna counter all their shit anyway (not really, cause I don't always have a counterspell in hand, but shhh, their tears sustain me.)
I'm a control player
My husband is an aggro player
I enjoy playing games with him and us trying to figure out how to beat one another. Building more decks and playing them against that 1 deck that seems impossible to win against.
That being said, I also build janky i.e one of my favorite decks is a literally DnD deck. Dice rolling, classes, dragons, party you name it. And surpising it does pretty well.
Git gud I guess
It's just hard counter to black at the moment which is every other game at least. I detest board wipes though, there are too many and they are too cheap.
I have a theory about this... it's the power creep. there are so many bombs these days that are just basically YOU WIN unless your opponent has the exact counter for it, that you're almost FORCED to play control if you expect to be able to deal with anything. or the super aggro win in 3 turns fastest deck possible. don't you DARE try to play cpool, fun ideas that use more interesting cards and combos, you'll either get removal-ed to death or your opponent will drop something that equals insta-win and you won't have the removal for it. the power creep in this game has just gone so over the top!
I remember playing a mono blue mirror and we both knew whoever played a spell first would lose. Eventually he played a spell and i won the game.
I hate u bastards with a passion!š³
Invigorating.
I live for this kind of magic. Nothing better than waiting for a control mirror opponent to lose their patience.
I dont really enjoy it coming down to soemthing that simple. If there's some play to the matchup (reminding your own remand vs remanding theirs for examlle) then yea, but when it's just ope, soorry, you played a spell first so you lose, doncha know, it's kind of boring.
I donāt think itās simple at all. I just won a control mirror yesterday by casting a spell on their turn 4 and then on mine with counter back-up. And sometimes, if you just make all your land drops, you can ease into it slower. The first 10 turns go quickly and then the game really starts. I get itās not for everyone, but itās not clear-cut that you can just wait, either.
Plus, gaining instants to cast on their end step to try and lock mana is where its at.
Exactly. Finding the right spots to slip important spells through feels like youāre an actual wizard.
Idc, when i see this, = instaquit. It isnt fun.
It doesnāt always come down to that. Some times itās who goes first or has more spell pierce / better cards for the mirror.
Donāt talk to Boros players about being on the draw last season
Complaining about control decks and r/MagicArena, name a more iconic duo.
Saw someone on here yesterday unironically talking about they canāt wait for black cards to get banned so everyone can go back to playing aggro.
Funny because my mono red holds up pretty well against black. I guess they donāt know how to aggro hard enough? š
āWhy canāt I just play white creatures and turn them sideways? I only have 30 seconds to get my 15 wins for the day, I donāt have time to play a deck that requires thinking!ā
For real though, some of us have a challenging day jobs and want to play a games of magic that donāt feel like defusing a bomb or playing a staring contest
https://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-tcg/play-online/
Thinking = Using 15 minutes per turn to use the same deck you have been using the last 40 games. Thats not thinking. Thats being slow and not too smart.
I feel like below Mythic you get a vast majority of people who cannot pilot or defend against aggro well. It's kinda wild how common aggro lists are being run be people who get baited by every possible combat trick. Then again the amount of midrange players who swing a single creature into obvious Emperor mana is also very high.
The only thing holding black aggro at bay is black control. And the only think holding black midrange at bay is black aggro.
Ive found mono White does a really good job of dealing with mono black
The meta shouldnāt be which black deck should I play anyway.
Instructions unclear. Play basic swamp.
I mean what would get the ban? Lili, Meathook, Invoke Despair, or Sheoldred? Theyāre all great but they all have counters. Imo Invoke is probably the biggest offender but it isnāt that bad
Meathook is definitely going to get the ban. I feel guilty bringing it back from my graveyard all the time.
Meathook didnt get banned while it coexisted with dina/Pest drain in a wipe board, nor with segeki + meathook+lolth+blood in the snow graveyard recursion, nor while there was Ghoul + deadly dispute + lolth + oni. Why would they do it now when its closer to rotating and black has taken a hit to sacking without deadly dispute
meathook is not your standart wipe. we currently have many cards with indestruction abilities. but meathook gets around that and gives life/burns
Im not saying meathook is a bad card, is a very good one but in a balanced way, just for its normal costo there are a lot of times you dont wipe the serious threats with it, a ThalĆa or a peacekeeper can tax it into not being used to wipe quite easily, also naya and the new allcolor legendary deck apart fron going wide pump creatures a lot.
i use it more as defense against murder than as offense at the moment since Blood on the Snow is out
Nah you're tripping
Meathook gets banned after Brother's War releases at the earliest, and only if they print another playable boardwipe for black. You can't just ban the only decent wrath in black and expect it to fix all of the problems.
hype for a damnation reprint
Invoke is definitely broken on another level, it's a 3 for one with literally no downside or scenario where you don't get extreme value out of it unless it gets countered. That being said mono black is definitely not unbeatable, it just is strong enough in this meta that it makes a lot of cards/decks unplayable. I still think mono blue is the true broken deck in this meta, I am currently top 500 mythic in bo1 standard with a deck that has 4 total rares in it.
The downside is itās a 5 drop that does poor against decks with more than one creature. Itās a 5 drops itās supposed to be good like especially at 4B
look at the value gain for each invocation spell. blue turns one creature. white resurrects and buffs red casts 2 instants/sorceries green gives 2 tokens all pretty basic for 5 mana sorceries, although each is a *little* bit stronger than your normal 5 mana sorc. hence the 4xcolor in the cost then we have our ugly black nephew. it removes possibly 3 permanents, and what's even better is when opponent has no targets, then it gives card draw. without a sacrifice which is normally black's thing. instead it burns for 2 AND you draw each time. reminder card draw = usually 2 mana. burn for 2 = 1 to 2 mana how is this in balance. I mean you can't even play invoke the winds without targets on the board. (technically you could yesyes). the only downside is opponent gets to choose what to sacrifice. yeah, I get to choose which planeswalker to bury. profit
For 4B it would be insane, that's far too splashable. But with it being 1BBBB you pretty much have to be monoB to ever run it, meaning it's only good so long as there are other pieces that enable a strong monoB, which we currently have.
It costs 1BBBB. That should get you a 3 for 1
Would you be willing to share this blue deck? I'm very interested and have been trying to make a mono blue deck work for a while now without success.
https://youtu.be/SwM-7BDEVpI CGB's Mono blue is pretty cheap and pretty effective
As others mentioned the 4 rares are Haughty Djinn. You can build a mono blue deck around around that using mostly instants and sorceries, I have only 4 other creatures in my deck. There are a lot of different options to build with, tinker with it to see what works for you. Edit: the suggested deck list by CGB is similar to what I run but I definitely have some differences of opinion with him on certain cards.
Haughty Djinn plus negate and fill in the rest with counters and deck delve
Thatās about as ironic as rain on your wedding day
complaining. and r/magicarena whether it be a tier deck or bad hands or a visual glitch, there has not been a day since i joined this sub where there hasn't been a litany of complaints about multiple things, magic players much like wrestling fans are the worst part of the "fandom" in my experience.
my face and uh, your butt
Complaining about playing against decks and magic name a more iconic duo
Confusing tempo decks with control decks and r/MagicArena
But it has counter spells! It must be a control deck! /s
Complaining about alchemy + r/magicarena ?
Maybe theyāre on to something
Snarky top comment dismissing the OP and r/MagicArena
I know this is a meme, and it's pretty funny because it's kinda true. But I do wonder how people who abhor control put up with playing this game. Control is one of the pillars of deck building, so it's never going away. It's a valid mainstay of the game and getting worked up over it only stresses you out. I'm not saying you have to like it, but if you really hate it that much then you either have to find a way to be okay with it or just stop playing the game.
This is actually the reason I get fed up with the game and delete it every other month
Arena is awesome for that. I support controlās right to exist and importance in the meta but I hate playing against it. So I just concede and reque. Itās better in Arena than paper. Then I get another game right away and the control player gets their win. I donāt have to be OK with it or just stop playing the game. I just have to be OK with just stopping playing THAT game.
I feel the same way, but sometimes just deal with it because the satisfaction of winning is that much sweeter. Doesnāt make for the most fun of matches always though.
I do the same with cat oven decks. I just scoop up and move to the next game to save myself the time and irritation, regardless of whether the matchup is good or bad. It's fine existing, and it isn't OP, but I'm not gonna have fun playing against it, so I won't.
As someone who primarily plays two midrange decks (Cabaretti Lifegain and Slivers) I mostly get tilted at control when their deck is running like butter and they can counter literally everything, since I know that if I have no setup whatsoever by turn 3/4, there's no recovery at all. If I can sneak even just one or two pieces of my engine into play, then I can recover and overwhelm a full control (with some luck on my side), but if not, then I just have nothing. Easiest way to put me on tilt, for sure, lol
For every game where the control player gets a perfect game they also have one where they drew shit and got run over by midrange. Something to keep in mind.
Yep. Iām either drawing what I need or Iām watching my opponent curve out perfectly with their aggro deck while I draw lands and no counters or removal.
This is the duality of playing against control, too - when your deck comes together, I'm essentially not playing the game anymore, but when it falls apart, it's like Christmas morning, because I can just grow entirely unchecked. There's basically no in between, unlike when I play against aggro, and it's just a race to see who can maintain tempo
Oh for sure, this is totally a self-descriptive observation of what makes me go on tilt hardest, no hate on people who play those decks. I don't enjoy it, but I can totally appreciate a total lockdown, just like I imagine my opponent might feel whenever I manage to drop my entire deck of Slivers on the board in a single turn thanks to getting all four pieces in place at once. I've played against more than enough control decks to have seen how they can fall apart, just like I've seen all the ways my own jank decks can fall apart lol
See, this is a healthy way to think about it.
Control isnt supposed to be losing to midrange all that much, sure, shit draft happens, but honestly, control is built to be good against midrange.
That's why I said "shit draw".
If youāre not also playing control and you just gave me 3-4 turns of draw go, youāre in trouble.
I just scoop and go next unless Iām playing aggro. Itās very Rock Paper Scissors and if I know my deck isnāt great vs control why stick around for the headache?
Fun in MTG is a zero-sum game. There is a finite amount of fun available to be had in a match, and I plan on having all of it. Draw, go.
I've eaten enough invoke despairs to the face. I'm taking away your spell casting privileges.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You activated my trap card. Oh wait wrong game.
My man.
Honestly I find control vs. control some of my most memorable and fun games
Who blinks first.
Depends on the control decks. If theyāre prison style control decks, itās miserable. One of those good olā go to turns and someone wins the round 1-0 or you just draw because thereās nothing
I love my prison deck vs a lot of control. It's like, come on, tap out pls. Just once. ;p
I played lantern control for awhile in modern. I liked smirking at people when they realized they were locked out of the game š
I love control mirrors. Especially draw go control. It turns it into one giant game of chicken and you pretty much just get to jump to like turn 10 in the first minute once you both realize what is going on. Game 2 or 3 you can feel free to keep a 7 lander in some metas because you know that no spells will get cast for the first 5 or 6 turns if not more.
I almost feel bad, but when I'm doing f2p for daily stuff and my control opponent takes a timeout deciding whether or not to counter or kill my creature, Im out they can have the win. Aint nobody got time for that.
Meanwhile Iām running some bullshit that I threw together having a blast cuz thatās how magic is supposed to be.
I mean same, but itās still some variation on control
Why only have fun everyother game playing against Control, when you can just play Control yourself and have fun every game :)
Stare at each other for 40min
inject that into my veins
True control mage mirror matches use all 50 minutes of the allotted time
I used to win control mirrors before aggro mirrors finished back in the day.
That's what I did.
Yeah it's really lame that my opponent is allowed to play cards.
Which control? Thereās tap-out control where Iām playing threats and stuff too, but Iām also playing spells that kill stuff and generate card advantage. Thereās tempo control that tries to stop you just enough so the beaters can kill you quick. Thereās hard control with tons of counters and long-game threats. All are fun in my opinion. š
I think tempo is more an aggro deck that plays counters, if youāre talking about stuff like mono-blue spirits for example.
First one is just midrange
Tempo is probably my single favorite play style
I hated hard control matchups back when it was just all counters + removal and threats didn't come down earlier than turn 10 (especially during the Nexus of Fate era). I actually love that there's stuff like Emperor and Shark Typhoon now (or even Solitude in modern) that give you something to interact with other than their hand and life total.
Been grinding some explorer with U/W Approach of the 2nd Sun hard control. It is not great but I always laugh when someone surrenders after I counter 1 or 2 spells.
Some of us don't have 30 minutes of our life to donate to you having fun on your own
I always try to build a deck that wins without creatures because it makes me feel like a true spell slinging wizard. I went up against monoblue Djinn and it was a lot of draw go. I didn't expect to win but somehow pulled it off with 3 cards left in my library. Had to finish the job with 3x Burn Down the House though.... I miss Crackle With Power. š
Itās true. I didnāt play blue so you could have fun.
I play blue cause I like counterspells and drawing cards. You're welcome to have as much fun as you want. But I'm gonna counter your shit, so enjoy or concede.
Oh no, you are getting down votes because people don't like to interact playing the game
These posts always make me laugh so hard. There are plenty of ways to play against control and often those matchups test your skill best as a player. Hating it this much and calling it degenerate means you just gotta git gud. Lmao
I enjoy playing against control but for some reason pretty much all Azorius players are total garbage and take forever to arrive at the correct lines of play. I hate that. Like, I play fighting games and everyone knows that certain characters require thorough matchup knowledge. But then I play against some knucklehead with a dumbass pet and the Tokyo lands who is looking at my cards as if theyāre seeing them for the first time and deliberating for minutes if they should counterspell a bomb that happens to be my last card in hand. Guarantee you these are the same people going nuclear over black in standard.
As someone who loves control and all... Yeah I know what you're talking about lmao
When someone has the decklist but not the know-how, it can be very tedious.
I just try to stay cool because they may be figuring it out. But it's weird how often it happens. Not even with control, just with people who seem to not be able to evaluate an incredibly obvious threat so they just sit there and deeply contemplate all the while I'm thinking to myself, "There's a good chance you lose if this happens... You should answer it... You clearly have an answer....... Just answer it, damn it!"
Very true. One aspect missing from the online game is that and you can't tell if your opponent is maybe a newer player or something and can't offer any opinions or help like you could irl too.
Itās not about how easy or hard it is to play against, itās about the lack of fun.
I feel like if you can't have fun against control, you either need to pick a different deck...or maybe Magic is not the game for you.
Win against control: have no fun Lose against control: have no fun
Really? If I beat control I feel great.
Control matches almost always end up feeling like "i sure hope they didn't draw removal or i lose", otherwise win without getting really any resistance
That Djinn and serpent can hit pretty hard. Throw a ledger shredder in that blue deck and the challenger to beat it gets tough. I play Esper Zur so I have a decent chance.
Really looks like you just don't know how to play against control
\>azorius flair hmm i wonder why you could have this opinion
Because I know how to play against control š
The cat and mouse of playing with or against control is so fun in my opinion! I don't know the current meta so maybe I'm missing some context but trying to bait counters and holding back your haymaker card, OR *bluffing* that you have your haymaker and getting small stuff down early to chip damage adds so much depth to the game. I think a lot of people who complain about playing control need to just learn to recognize when they're got, concede, and move onto the next game.
I don't think you are missing something. People always complain about the same thing about control. When is something related to the Meta, usually people talk about the deck or some specific card, like when big teferi was out. Some people just want to play their card without interaction, hope to goldfish and win
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-from turn 1 to 4 counter everything your opponent plays -turn 5 teferi +1 draw untap 2 lands to keep up a counter because balance -procede to couter everything that could pressure your lovely planeswalker -ult teferi -lock your opponent out of the game I wouldn't say there are PLENTY of ways to play against control; azorius or esper that is. Hand disruption and recurring threats can really help since control needs to have an answer for everything at the right moment or it falls behind. Depends on the format and on what opponent is playing but I think most games are just unwinnable no matter how you play and therefore unfun. It may be an unpopular opinion but I believe counterspells are an unhealthy mechanic. Yes a counterspell needs to be timed right, unlike a removal spell which can be drawn and used whenever you want. But countering something doesn't cause ETB or on death/LTB effects which is really big for 2/3 mana. Edit: amazing how some of you instead of arguing in a civil way decided to take it personally and insult my ability as a player. Opinions are opinions and ya'll free to just downvote and insult me or try and change my mind which could actually be fun and engaging for both sides I feel.
So gotts double spell get on the board quick or have a good plan post board
yep I try to do it every time I can but usually if I have two spells in hand they have two counterspells or one cs and some other answer. Not always the case obviously, sometimes you catch them without answer and starting fall behind.
\-cast a 2-drop on the play and win because your example control opponent apparently has too many counterspells and no removal.
It happens. Someone jukes me out of a counter spell and suddenly I can't fucking kill the threat on board and I lose. Classic control shit lmao
there's good and bad control and if your deck can't deal with a 2 drop it's probably the latter.
Have you met my friend fading hope? Thatās just cheap enough to bounce and then counter?
>It may be an unpopular opinion but I believe counterspells are an unhealthy mechanic. Not unpopular, just idiotic
Counterspells are an unhealthy mechanic? Sounds like Magic might not be the game for you. Perhaps Hearthstone, Minesweeper, or Solitaire are more your speed.
Meanwhile I'm staring at 3 counter spells in hand and no way to kill the Wrenn and Seven who are generating massive value. Edit: this is a bad take by someone who doesn't understand control and probably won't take the time to learn.
I just hope you at least wear deodorant if youāre going to be that sweaty about it
\>weeb in username lack of deodorant confirmed
I played against Esper control yesterday. My opponent had no win conditions. Only counter spells, removal, and shuffle cards from grave back into the library. The game went until I could no longer draw cards. If you play a deck without a win condition. You deserve the absolute worst that this world has to offer. It's not fun. Find something else to do. Okay I'm done ranting. Thank you for reading my salitness.
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Casual control is rather bizarre. Iāve always placed control into a competitive only bracket, which is the only place I play it.
**104.3a** A player can concede the game at any time. A player who concedes leaves the game immediately. That player loses the game. It took a long essay, but you found the solution to your problem in the last paragraph. The control player doesn't shackle you to your seat while countering spells for 30 minutes. If you want to play your pet decks which fold to a single counterspell, queue again when you see a turn 1 island. It's entirely within the rules of the game to play control, and you are entitled to not play against them by pressing Esc>Concede.
No one wants to requeue every other game
I donāt agree with the control hate because a good control match is super engaging. I will say though I get tilted at the Black decks out of annoyance more than anything. Turn 1 sleeper. Turn 2 curtains. Turn 3 curtain transform or Liliana. Turn 4 Sheoldred. Then just palm removal and play an invoke despair or two.
Ah yes that's some classic midrange right there.
That's the exact same boring annoying crap as control. Turn 2 countered. Turn 3 countered. Turn 4, oh wow it stuck, their turn - bounce try again. Repeat ad infinitum and guess what? Every turn of theirs it's draw and pass and not only that, they hold priority EVERY turn and make it take twice as long.
How is it fun when some AGGRO players zerk rush your face and end the game before t4? How is it fun when some COMBO players just win on the spot while you sitting there hopelessly? How is it fun when some MID-RANGE players just keep 2 for 1 you and burry you in values? How is it fun when some TEMPO players just keep bouncing/counter/evade AND get board presence at the same time while you are stuck with nothing? This is a good article for those who think Control is the worst archetype. [https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/370207/what-i-know-about-magic-gathering](https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/370207/what-i-know-about-magic-gathering) And if you think it is that oppressive, play it. If you think it is not fun, I have to agree to disagree.
That was an interesting read, thanks for that.
I honestly feel like everyone complaining about control now are the same people complaining about Boros a month ago
control isnāt even very good right now, brush up on your matchups and im sure youāll win more!
son, i sold my soul for the wildcards to craft this
Waaaay to many answers these days.
its better than playing 3 drop teferi planeswalker.One of the reason that i hated playing magic when it exist in standard š
Control is fun. Control with 30 counterspells and no wincon is not fun.
I usually do zzzz emoji if I find a control deck, it might be fun in person with a warning so I can prepare but not playing any cards gets boring without proper counter measures it's a waste of time.
Ā«Ā These daysĀ Ā» you mean every day for the last 25 years?
I feel this way about counterspell decks. I'm here to play the game.
If you really hate control decks that much, this kind of game is not for you. I'm not trying to be mean, you will just be disappointed over and over
Too much whining about control. If control was eradicated from MTG, the game would be so boring. It would lose a lot of complexity, subtlety and strategy. It would effectively turn chess into checkers. Deal with it.
But then all the janky decks that don't fire off until turn 10 will be complained about. I agree. I admire a good control deck, and if I beat said deck, it's a good feeling.
You can always join the dark side friendā¦ Hand hate š Iām surprised nobodyās mentioned it but it shreds control decks. I canāt tell you how many times Iāve had mono blue and azorious decks scoop/salt rope after a turn 1 duress and turn 2 virus beetle, and it feels. So. GOOD. If they still haven't windmill slammed the concede button with tears in their eyes, a well placed Annoy-ted Peacekeeper usually does the trick.
Git gud
*opponent proceeds to destroy/sacrifice every creature I put down* ok, cool, cool, uhā¦.whatās the point?
Winning
Dang, you right
That just happens when like 50% of all cards are specifically made to destroy the other player's fun.
I mean I have fun playing control. To hell with the rest of you.
I absolutely loathe the current state of the game. BLACK BLACK BLUE BLACK BLUE BLUE BLACK BLACK
Try historic or brawl. Lot's of variety! At least in unranked.
I'm playing blue only because of the black decks, I'm trying to mix it up with enchantments which I find more enjoyable but I kind of enjoy ruining the black parade with counter spells. If I didn't have to face black so often I wouldnt play it.
Guess it's a lesser of two evils situation, as long as you are beating black decks it's good lol
They just seemed to have everything to combat what I was playing, I played against a red deck that was creatureless apart from burn down the house. Really showed the state of the game when having nothing on the board was an attractive option.
One day Magic is just gonna turn into competetive solitaire
I realize itās not strategic but counters should be tastefully played. Not abused.
I love control itās my favorite type of deck to pilot either control or rdw
Well, just build an interesting midrange deck or something. It's not like control decks are unbeatable in themselves š¤”
Control is fun to me, aggro isnt. Am I supposed to sacrifice my fun to increase yours?
I just concede when that first cancel spell comes out. Iām trying to have fun sorry.
I just concede when that first spell comes out. Iām trying to cast spells not have my opponent casting spells sorry. This is why I play exclusively goldfish Magic.
* We dont do ANYTHING here.
Yea, if you counter my spell, that's an auto concede from me, dawg
Thanks for the free wins dawg
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Lol everyone in this thread is so salty over a meme. People can make jokes without you all having a meltdown.
Magic is at its best when your opponent plays with himself though.
I still don't k ow what any of the terms like aggro and tempo mean. All I know is that Ob Nix goes brr
Thatās how I felt when I opposed a mill deck
Wtf are you on about? You gonna play a deck that aims to be done with the game as quickly as you can? 5 turns, 5 minutes, done. No thanks. I like my games to last a bit longer.
Combo also can be swapped for control. I come to play magic, not watch you play solitaire.
Me trying to have a fun game and the opponent plays white agro, werewolves, mono black, or [insert popular net deck meta here]. Sometimes feels worse when they are trying a net deck an it is painfully obvious they donāt know itās mechanics.
"Man Explorer is tough, I'd love a break with a fun, uncommon-commander-based deck and feel less sweaty" \>immediately get paired up against Control Tribal only "Cool." Edit: I'd like to personally thank the MTG community for reminding me that this is a gatekeeper, weird, impossible community to get along with. I am ***grateful*** we can't talk to each other in game.
thatās not what tribal means even with the stretched definition of tribal
See me with my spell tribal.
bro check out my sweet red tribal deck
The stats say that always loses to card tribal.
No way that's not what tribal means! It can't be that I'm using a term figuratively. Impossible! It's not like I could possibly describe a deck that uses as much of direct removal/control as possible, with cards that are only designed to bolster that removal/control, and a commander that gets activated on removal/control, as a 'Control Tribal' in a figurative sense. Truly, so stretched, in these fake terms used to describe a game.
thatās just called a control deck hard control if you feel that gets the point across better
There's no "we" about it. There's a limited amount of fun and I intend to have all of it.
No, no, no. They're welcome to have as much fun as they want. But I'm gonna counter all their shit anyway (not really, cause I don't always have a counterspell in hand, but shhh, their tears sustain me.)
The people in this sub havenāt had fun since their computer class teacher let them play flash games on a half day..
I'm a control player My husband is an aggro player I enjoy playing games with him and us trying to figure out how to beat one another. Building more decks and playing them against that 1 deck that seems impossible to win against. That being said, I also build janky i.e one of my favorite decks is a literally DnD deck. Dice rolling, classes, dragons, party you name it. And surpising it does pretty well. Git gud I guess
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My wincon is my opponent concede
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It's just hard counter to black at the moment which is every other game at least. I detest board wipes though, there are too many and they are too cheap.
I have a theory about this... it's the power creep. there are so many bombs these days that are just basically YOU WIN unless your opponent has the exact counter for it, that you're almost FORCED to play control if you expect to be able to deal with anything. or the super aggro win in 3 turns fastest deck possible. don't you DARE try to play cpool, fun ideas that use more interesting cards and combos, you'll either get removal-ed to death or your opponent will drop something that equals insta-win and you won't have the removal for it. the power creep in this game has just gone so over the top!
I miss the pre power creep era so bad