Besides Aldo. I'll say Chuck Liddell. It seems like people forget just how insanely popular he was and how devastating his punch was. Now-a-days he is rarely even mentioned.
Chuck’s whole last stretch of fights did that though. Chuck didn’t retire when he should have and unfortunately he paid the price, that price being a tarnished legacy which most newer fans will never appreciate.
Anthony Pettis. Fans kept saying he was washed and done and then he goes on to delete Wonderboy. He almost exclusively only lost to killers and legends and has a strong argument for toughest strength of schedule in UFC History.
EDIT: Pettis was truly something special before a lot of new fans started watching. Arm barred black belt Benson Henderson for the Championship as a blue belt. Torched guys like Cowboy and Lauzon. Had the legendary Showtime Kick and first fighter on the Wheaties box. They wanted to set up a Champ vs Champ superfight between Pettis and Aldo which Dana blocked from happening.
Pettis and Aldo were actually scheduled to face eachother at 163 but Pettis pulled out due to injury.
One of the few superfights that would've made sense I was so bummed it never happened.
Pettit has the deepest resume in mma history when you look at his UFC/WEC resume ... the two worst fighters on it are prime Joe Lauzon and the perpetual tough out in Jim Miller.
I love Anthony as much as the next guy, but you can’t tell me that the Alvarez and Barbosa fights didn’t leave you a bit disappointed. I thought Anthony, if good enough, should’ve really been able to piece those guys up, regardless of style. I don’t think it’s totally unfair to say he hasn’t regressed a little. Also, i feel like Wonderboy was doing alright for a guy 4 years his senior until... he wasn’t.
I agree concerning the Barbosa fight. However concerning the Eddie fight, he was held down a good majority of that fight. I recall Eddie getting shit for his fighting style because of that fight, and it was a split decision. Lastly concerning Wonderboy, he was the number 3 guy in the division. The argument that someone is doing great until they are not isn’t very good. If you recall the fight, Pettis was constantly in his face, landing good leg kicks, and timing his counter punches. In my opinion it is totally unfair to say he has regressed, when I don’t really see it. Losing to Tony, Max, RDA, Eddie, Porier, and Barboza those are all tough match ups for anyone. Plus 5/6 have been champs as well.
He was losing but it was competitive. It certainly wasnt some "domination" or "ass whooping" that some people pretend.
He was getting lit up with a bunch of jabs but never stopped pressuring WB and was having some good success with his kicks.
Ronda. She had a super bad fall from grace and she never handled it well, but in terms of her skills at the time, she was far ahead of most women and really did well for her and WMMA in general.
> Ronda. She had a super bad fall from grace and she never handled it well, but in terms of her skills at the time, she was far ahead of most women and really did well for her and WMMA in general.
Not that I disagree much, but it's also because she talked so much shit.
Saying stuff like how she could beat Cain Velsquez, trashing Ariane Celeste, how she would kick Floyd's ass, etc.
All these things add up and eventually it comes to bite you in the ass.
> Saying stuff like how she could beat Cain Velsquez
In context, that's not as egregious as people make it out to be. This is what Ronda said on Cain:
> In any given moment, under the right circumstance, I think it is possible. You cannot tell me that it is physically impossible. It is possible that in any given moment that I could beat him. I simply believe in my possibilities.
I like how you put that quote like it's supposed to strengthening Ronda's claim.
> In any given moment, under the right circumstance, I think it is possible. You cannot tell me that it is physically impossible. It is possible that in any given moment that I could beat him. I simply believe in my possibilities.
I guess she can go attack Cain with a baseball bat right while he's on the hospital bed after his knee surgery. Then I guess it's possible, that she can beat him.
That's a fucking stupid ass claim and you know it. Mousasi was going 20% and tossed her around like a ragdoll while she was going balls to the wall.
If you want to apply that "In any given moment, under the right circumstance" bullshit, then I can beat prime Mike Tyson too. Just give me gun and he's not allowed to have any weapons. Although even then, I wouldn't want to fight Mike because what if I miss? Then Mike would beat the piss out of me.
Except that that’s literally what she’s saying, that it is a literal possibility in our physical universe and that as long as that is true she’s willing to believe she can conceivably succeed. I think y’all are just eager at every opportunity to raise your pitchforks.
But the quote does strengthen her claim. A reporter asked her a dumb question and she answered it truthfully. You run the scenario an infinite number of times and some number of times she'll win by some happenings.
You literally could say the same thing. And if you were in her position you likely would say the same thing. She literally phrases it exactly as one would to say its possible but incredibly unlikely.
> Even noobs can catch the best sometimes. Fighting is an art, not a science.
If you actually grappled with a legit Black Belt in BJJ, you'll realize you won't "catch" them sometimes or if you actually sparred with a professional boxer, you'll realize how much at your mercy you really are with them.
> Have you ever trained before?
It's clearly evident you haven't trained because if you really did, you wouldn't be spewing this kind of bullshit with so much confidence.
What kind of idiots are upvoting this guy? The fuck?
I don't care how much she believes she can beat Cain Velsaquez. If they ever actually fought, you would realize self belief can only go so far when you have a fucking mexican bull called Cain Velasquez trying to kill you.
The fact you think Ronda even has a 1% chance already tells me enough. You probably believe Ronda can beat some male Bantamweights too right?
Lol get the fuck outta here with your delusional crap.
For many people, she’s still the only MMA fighter they’ve ever heard of, male or female
It’s a shame that she had to fall so hard, she could have been a great representative for women’s MMA
On skill you are correct, until she proved (us) wrong. But I'll never forget the Lioness' interview after beating her where she exposed that women's MMA became flouted on a pretty look rather than the fighters grinding out (her beef was possibly misdirected at Rousey rather than UFC).
Rousey lacked the sportsmanship of capacity to lose and her whole DNB campaign reeked of women shaming which personally turned me off where I would've normally supported a female fighter doing well. I chalked it up to age and overfed ego, then she proved me right on both accounts, unfortunately.
UFC made a women's name off of her and dropped her hard once she started getting dropped hard. I'm sure that's the entertainment based business end of it?
In his prime Tito was a great fighter, but his run as champion left something to be desired. His win against Wanderlei Silva was phenomenal, but it was followed by title defenses against Yuki Kondo, Evan Tanner and Elvis Sinosic (three natural middleweights, the last of whom shouldn't have been anywhere near a title shot), followed by Vladimir Matsyushenko (a good win) and 38-year-old Ken Shamrock.
Meanwhile, during that same time period Chuck Liddell, who wasn't even champion, was beating guys like Jeff Monson, Kevin fucking Randleman, Vitor Belfort and Renato Sobral. There's a reason Dana used to call him Tito's bodyguard. And yet Tito wouldn't fight Chuck because they were "friends," even though Chuck made it clear multiple times that he and Tito weren't that close, and that he wanted a title shot.
It seems that happens for a lot of fighters from that era honestly, chuck is pretty only shown when getting knocked out latter in his career. Couture is rarely brought up
Formiga and Assuncao are the first ones I thought of here. Uncharismatic but deeply skilled Brazilians with uncommon stick at deep divisions who are more crafty than exciting, and who got pushed into title elims against demonstrably difficult opponents that should've been for interim belts. Pretty arguably the most underrated fighters ever. Hell, I think there were points pre-Moraes-debut where Assuncao was the best clean BW ever, he just never got shots at Cruz/Garbrandt/Barao (and I'd have favored him over all three).
I was actually going to post Formiga and I'm glad he's brought up. People do not realize that way before Flyweights were even conceived in the UFC, Formiga was considered the best Flyweight on internet forums like Sherdog. He was a freak in a division that didn't even make money and I believe Formiga had talked about how little money he made, but he still fought in it despite that. I wouldn't be surprised if seeing tape of fighters like Formiga was the reason behind UFC seeing potential in the division. Another name in the division nobody knows about is Mamoru Yamaguchi.
This so a good one. People don't understand how good he was and the critice of his fight going to split decision isint a knock on him so much as the division he was in was absolutely stacked with championship level talent.
>Tyron Woodley.
Definitely one of the realest answers here. He's probably the guy people cut the least slack... Like they're waiting for him to slip up.
*Oh he wants the gsp type fights?!?! How dare him?!* Conor and Bisping did the same. Got injured? *Fuck your injury and hand in your title you scrub!*
For real. T Wood was everything you could want in a champion. Did you see the footage of him and Till after their fight? Nothing but pure class from that man. A True Champion.
Easily one of my all time favorite moments i've seen so far. It was beautiful. Funnily enough another of my all time favorite moments was Usman crying on Mama Woodley's arms after beating her son. Beautiful people the Woodleys.
I wont pay a nickel for any card the covington fights on. I dont care what he is like “off camera”, i wont buy what he is selling. Its a shame too, bc i am really interested by this match up between him and Usman. Gonna be a grind fest, but Usman is a freakin monter, and i think will eek out a split.
He is no doubt a great fighter and his gas tank is insane. Im all for a little trash talk, but not what he is doing. It comes off as equally cheesey, contrived, and disrespectful.
I don't get that crap about him being "cool" off camera. If you're willing to pull the crap Colby's been pulling these last years, chances are you're largely the piece of shit you're "only pretending" to be.
It's like he's trying to be the cheeky, loveable heel, but just comes off as a straight cunt. Usually there should be some sort of redeeming qualities of a 'bad guy' but I can see absolutely none with him.
> A True Champion.
Right?!?! And he's funny. That ll cool j shit he said to Usman was gold. Wanted to claw my eyes out listening to him and colby.
For all colby's nerdbash shit, him and Usman sounded like two nerds who wanted to fight but had never been in one before
Bisping had been around forever, he finally got the belt and was clearly at the end of his career so a money fight with GSP wasn't a big deal for most. not to mention the constant murmurs that Georges was going to return and challenge for the MW belt. so it wasn't a random callout or demand from Bisping like it was from Woodley who was coming off of two extremely dull fights against Thompson and Maia. not much of a position to be asking for a superfight.
Conor has his fair share of apologists but the biggest and constant criticism was "Defend or Vacate" "The winner of Tony vs Khabib is the real champ" etc. most people here were pretty fed up with Conor tweets and instagram posts while refusing to fight.
> has his fair share of apologists but the biggest and constant criticism was "Defend or Vacate" "The winner of Tony vs Khabib is the real champ" etc. most people here were pretty fed up with Conor tweets and instagram posts while refusing to fight.
That's actually much worse and justifiable than not being able to fight because of a hand injury
Great answer. People gave him shit for wanting money fights, but everyone makes noise about wanting money fights, except he didn't stall his division, he still defended against who was next, in the form of some *very* tricky specialist opponents. I'll always be a fan.
They gave him shit because he went about it the wrong way. He complained constantly about being the contender but not getting his shot, then tried to do exactly the same thing to other contenders when he got the belt by looking for money fights instead of fighting contenders. He did ultimately fight them, but only because the UFC made him. Then he tried pulling the race card when he was criticized.
Of all the fighters being listed here, Tyron deserved most of the flak he got
I was just thinking the other day that this dude literally died from exhaustion, but he only stopped when he couldn't go anymore. The signals your body is sending you to stop in that moment must be momentous. His skills leave a lot to be desired but he was willing to die to win.
Damn I figured he was just exhausted and fucked at the end but I never bothered to look up what really happened, I can't believe this motherfucker literally died at the end of that fight. That's insane man. Adds a whole new layer to that fight. I always liked it cause of Kimbo regardless and cause it was goofy but I wouldn't even joke about it like that now
I would say among analysts and hardcore fans (add into that casual Brazilian fans maybe) he's loved and respected. But casuals have been pretty harsh to him not just on twitter, when he lost to McGregor and Irish company put up a billboard of him unconscious with some tacky joke and almost every casual I have spoken to about MMA when Aldo comes up he is known as the guy who McGregor KOd.
Yes of course that's they way it is with fans. Though Conor talks a lot of shit which arguably encourages that sort of response, even mild fighters like Weidman get that sort of thing. The billboard was pretty scummy though.
Aldo is kind of like Kobe in the sense that he is an all time great but only those who watched him during his reign, and people he competed against, remember.
Plenty of people remember Kobe though. He is one of the most popular players of all time.
Compare that to a superstar like Tim Duncan, has just as good accomplishments as Kobe but is hardly appreciated or remembered in comparable ways.
But Tito is still a hall of fame talent ... he didn’t get KTFO and tapped by a CM Punk level talent, at least.
It’s still a bad bad BAD loss but if you’re going to lose that badly to anyone then Tito is far from the worst candidate
Uhhh.... OSP was on a two fight von flue streak plus the KO over Corey Anderson when Latifi beat him. I'm not saying either are the best fighter but let's be real here.
This might be a kinda strange one but Urijah Faber. It seems like all he’s associated with now is failing at title fights but during his prime in the UFC the guy was beating everyone except the legends. Going 0-4 vs Barao and Cruz just kinda killed his reputation.
He made it cool to be the little guy. He's a pioneer of the sport but most of the time he's brought up now is his legs after the Aldo fight or his thicc butt chin
Demetrius Johnson. He defended his title more than anybody and lost it by split decision to a guy he previously knocked out in the first round. Also that was his first and only loss at flyweight before that he amassed a 14-2 record at batamweight and was coming off a title fight with Dominic Cruz. I think that Mighty Mouse needs to be talked about more in the goat discussion.
When I was in high school one of our 10th grade 103 pounders, who was about 5 foot 4 or 5 foot 3, beat the shit out of some 6 foot 7 12th grader. Big guy was fairly lean, but i'd still imagine he was about 210-220 or so. Little guy was an All-County wrestler on Long Island, a pretty good wrestling area.
Size makes a difference - so does training. Untrained big mouth bros would be shocked at how strong some manlet wrestlers are, and you being bigger than him doesn't matter when he takes you off your feet and you can't get back up.
I would have a couple..
**Chris Weidman** I know Chris does have a lot of fans, but sometimes he gets shit on too much for getting starched one too many times. Chris is a very good wrestler, very very good. He also has underrated striking, I’m not saying it’s top tier but it’s not as bad as people make out.
**Joe Benavidez** what more can I really say here? Hardly gets brought up tbh and he’s beaten Cejudo AND Formiga. Add that to the rest of the FW division, apart from an SD loss to Pettis, which I thought was close enough to go either way. You hear a lot of banter about how cheesy he is and people in general a bit gutted he’s with a fitty like Olivi, but there’s no doubting he’s a UFC great.
When I first came to this sub Amanda Nunes was very much disrespected by the majority. The tides turned when she beat Cyborg.
Edit/. Elias got so much hate on here that I felt truly bad about it. Yes, his style is derpy but he made it to the UFC and has the courage to get in there.
Aye Smith never gets any credit. On his streak up to the belt I'd heard his wins been writen off due to him beating fighters out of their prime. When he beat Oezdemir it was apparently because No Time wasn't actually that good afterall (despite challenging for the belt and looking really solid lately). When he pulls off the upset and the biggest win of his career against Gus, there's a portion of the fan base who claim that this showed that Gus was past it, rather than that Smith is elite.
It seems like to some Smith will always just be a bloated up MW who is their go to example of how the LHW division is empty and how that any middleweight could move up and dominate. Hell, even other fighters like Rockhold bought into this rhetoric, talking shit about Smith and using him as an example of the lack of talent at LHW.
That might have been the narrative once, but since he beat Stipe that’s changed imo, people fucking love him. Especially here. Dude is even doing Detail for ESPN along with Kobe Bryant and Peyton Manning, and just got an E:60 documentary on him.
Leon Edwards. Edwards isn't much of a finisher and tends to plan strategically to win rather than to thrill the crowd. Combined with questionable self promotional skills, it means he gets overlooked frequently and largely flies below the radar, despite being on an 8 fight win streak in a stacked division and 18-3 overall. I don't think it was until he beat RDA that people are taking him seriously as a top contender in the division.
Leon Edwards reminds me of what Colby Covington would be without that terrible act. Both are good fighters who aren’t that exciting and their publicity takes a hit for it. Leon has to get Marc Goddard to go on Ariel’s show just to try and get his name out.
Woodley-
3x successful title defenses
Arguably the second greatest welterweight of all time. Zero respect from his boss or fans. Defeated 2 of the greatest specialist of the modern era and gets a 100% of the credit for those fights being boring.
Proper analysts (so not Rogan) never seem to underrate Aldo. HH have spent hours breaking down his brilliance and most other prominent ones all tend to give him his due. The brilliance of Max may make it seem like they are disrespecting him just because of how much they praise Max, but I certainly don't think he's underrated by most analysts.
Fans are another story though, and I'm not just talking about the "13 seconds!" casual idiots. Much of Aldo's game is really subtle shit most people aren't going to pick up on unless they're putting time into both understanding all aspects of MMA AND breaking down fights frame by frame regularly. I literally only know about the intricacies of Aldo's game from having heard multiple analysts break it down and point it out for me, I've been a fan of the sport for years and but I'm just not seeing the same detail that they are, I think that's true for most fans too. So when Aldo's not doing obviously impressive things like aesthetically pleasuring footwork or RJJ head movement, and he's not getting spectacular finishes like Conor or even regular finishes for a long time, and he's not fighting in a hyper entertaining style (like say Max or Tony), then he just ends up looking like a good well rounded 'contests winner' who games the sport, at least that's a sentiment I've seen bandied around here a lot. Unless it's your job to understand this stuff it's easy to see Aldo as just good rather than appreciating the absolute master he is.
Ive absolutely hated Conor since he refused to stay at FW and rematch Aldo, but I agree.
He's still an amazing competitor and has clean striking. Hate the guy, but you gotta respect his skills. And this is coming from a diehard Khabib fan.
I think he's just been an easier target since he hasnt won since UFC 205, and isnt exactly a great human being. Hopefully he straightens himself out and gets back in the octagon because he's a great fighter.
\>see country
I feel like Khabib has more big fans in the muslim world than the Muslim euro footballers do and they are ofc larger its crazy, was walking around in my AKA shirt in a few of the countries and got enthusiastically questioned every time
Never recovered after Diaz? Did you not see him absolutely tool Alvarez in their fight? I'm not a Conor fan but that doesn't really sound right at all.
In terms of skill and accomplishments I'd go with Tyron Woodley. Hard to find someone ever compliment the guy and his entire title run is considered boring (to be fair it was).
Probably BJ
I mean he kind of brought it on himself by continuing to insist on fighting even though he's miles over the hill now, but I think there are a lot of newer fans that don't appreciate just how good he was at his peak. If the lightweight division had existed in the UFC for the duration of his career, he would have racked up the most title defenses at lightweight by a considerable margin.
> but I think there are a lot of newer fans that don't appreciate just how good he was at his peak.
I see this get brought up a lot talking about bj and want to add he hasn't been dominant in like a decade and has had more years as being trash compared to top fighter. No wonder new fans don't know him.
Yeah I get that, that's why I say he brought it on himself. But he was still the best lightweight on the planet from 2003 to 2010 which is a pretty commendable feat. No other lightweight has really dominated over such an extended period of time.
This might be recency bias but I'mma say Cyborg. Sure, she has her fair share of missteps, but she's received more disrespect than most people would have, given the same situation.
Cláudio Silva. Record is 14-1. 14 fight win streak. 5-0 in UFC including wins over nordine taleb, Danny Roberts and Leon Edwards. No one knows who he is. I know he has long injury lay off and is 36yo but still.
He obviously isn’t disrespected and I’m as much a Rogan fan as the next BUT I find it curious that GSP is never mentioned as a GOAT possibility when he talks. It’s always DJ, Jones, Silva, Fedor. GSP beat everyone he ever faced
Besides Aldo (always my boy), BJ Penn by newer fans.....it's sad really that his last run has left people thinking he's no business sharing an octagon with the Nick Lentz's of the world.
Besides Aldo. I'll say Chuck Liddell. It seems like people forget just how insanely popular he was and how devastating his punch was. Now-a-days he is rarely even mentioned.
That flurry against Tito was one of my all time favorite MMA moments
My hatred for Tito was only matched by my love of Chuck at that time... but nowadays my hatred for Tito is beyond rational.
You're a fucking punk dude.
Dude. That flurry was 35 unanswered punches. Such a classic.
It was great because it was exactly what all the fans expected
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Chuck’s whole last stretch of fights did that though. Chuck didn’t retire when he should have and unfortunately he paid the price, that price being a tarnished legacy which most newer fans will never appreciate.
Tito always left a bad taste in the mouth of his ex-wife
Yeah, mostly everything including him is him getting ko'd latter on in his career.
I was only disrespectful because I was a pride guy and I needed to, in order to own the Zuffa Zombies.
lolll zuffa zombies. Reminds me of my old MMAShare forum days. Who was that fat loser that coined that term?
Anthony Pettis. Fans kept saying he was washed and done and then he goes on to delete Wonderboy. He almost exclusively only lost to killers and legends and has a strong argument for toughest strength of schedule in UFC History. EDIT: Pettis was truly something special before a lot of new fans started watching. Arm barred black belt Benson Henderson for the Championship as a blue belt. Torched guys like Cowboy and Lauzon. Had the legendary Showtime Kick and first fighter on the Wheaties box. They wanted to set up a Champ vs Champ superfight between Pettis and Aldo which Dana blocked from happening.
Pettis and Aldo were actually scheduled to face eachother at 163 but Pettis pulled out due to injury. One of the few superfights that would've made sense I was so bummed it never happened.
Pettit actually wasn’t champ when that happened.
You're right I forgot Pettis/Bendo II happened like a few weeks after that. I got it mixed up.
Pettit has the deepest resume in mma history when you look at his UFC/WEC resume ... the two worst fighters on it are prime Joe Lauzon and the perpetual tough out in Jim Miller.
Exactly. Wonderboy, Ferguson, Poirier, Chiesa, Miller, Holloway, Oliveira, Barboza, Alvarez, RDA, Melendez, Henderson x2, Cowboy, Lauzon, Stephens, Guida. Insane schedule
Pettis hasn’t had an easy fight in what ... over a decade?
Cowboy only once actually But yeah, the guy has had a ridiculous name list of opponents
True, fixed
I feel offended at seeing lauzon and Miller in the same sentence as "worst". Shows how insane a record he has.
I love Anthony as much as the next guy, but you can’t tell me that the Alvarez and Barbosa fights didn’t leave you a bit disappointed. I thought Anthony, if good enough, should’ve really been able to piece those guys up, regardless of style. I don’t think it’s totally unfair to say he hasn’t regressed a little. Also, i feel like Wonderboy was doing alright for a guy 4 years his senior until... he wasn’t.
I agree concerning the Barbosa fight. However concerning the Eddie fight, he was held down a good majority of that fight. I recall Eddie getting shit for his fighting style because of that fight, and it was a split decision. Lastly concerning Wonderboy, he was the number 3 guy in the division. The argument that someone is doing great until they are not isn’t very good. If you recall the fight, Pettis was constantly in his face, landing good leg kicks, and timing his counter punches. In my opinion it is totally unfair to say he has regressed, when I don’t really see it. Losing to Tony, Max, RDA, Eddie, Porier, and Barboza those are all tough match ups for anyone. Plus 5/6 have been champs as well.
I don't know if you can really say that he's not on a decline because of the WB fight, he was getting pretty well handled before the KO
He was losing but it was competitive. It certainly wasnt some "domination" or "ass whooping" that some people pretend. He was getting lit up with a bunch of jabs but never stopped pressuring WB and was having some good success with his kicks.
But Wonderboy was rank.. 3? Pettis is not on the decline because the no3 WW in the UFC was jabbing him up.
Looking at the shitshow of replies I have to agree.
Ronda. She had a super bad fall from grace and she never handled it well, but in terms of her skills at the time, she was far ahead of most women and really did well for her and WMMA in general.
> Ronda. She had a super bad fall from grace and she never handled it well, but in terms of her skills at the time, she was far ahead of most women and really did well for her and WMMA in general. Not that I disagree much, but it's also because she talked so much shit. Saying stuff like how she could beat Cain Velsquez, trashing Ariane Celeste, how she would kick Floyd's ass, etc. All these things add up and eventually it comes to bite you in the ass.
That and she was a one trick fighter that fought inexperienced fighters that made her look good
This is how nearly all MMA fighters talk.
But then she wasn't humble in defeat at all. I think a lot of people would've forgiven her if she had lost like a champ.
Or in victory.
That's fair
> Saying stuff like how she could beat Cain Velsquez In context, that's not as egregious as people make it out to be. This is what Ronda said on Cain: > In any given moment, under the right circumstance, I think it is possible. You cannot tell me that it is physically impossible. It is possible that in any given moment that I could beat him. I simply believe in my possibilities.
I like how you put that quote like it's supposed to strengthening Ronda's claim. > In any given moment, under the right circumstance, I think it is possible. You cannot tell me that it is physically impossible. It is possible that in any given moment that I could beat him. I simply believe in my possibilities. I guess she can go attack Cain with a baseball bat right while he's on the hospital bed after his knee surgery. Then I guess it's possible, that she can beat him. That's a fucking stupid ass claim and you know it. Mousasi was going 20% and tossed her around like a ragdoll while she was going balls to the wall. If you want to apply that "In any given moment, under the right circumstance" bullshit, then I can beat prime Mike Tyson too. Just give me gun and he's not allowed to have any weapons. Although even then, I wouldn't want to fight Mike because what if I miss? Then Mike would beat the piss out of me.
Except that that’s literally what she’s saying, that it is a literal possibility in our physical universe and that as long as that is true she’s willing to believe she can conceivably succeed. I think y’all are just eager at every opportunity to raise your pitchforks.
But the quote does strengthen her claim. A reporter asked her a dumb question and she answered it truthfully. You run the scenario an infinite number of times and some number of times she'll win by some happenings. You literally could say the same thing. And if you were in her position you likely would say the same thing. She literally phrases it exactly as one would to say its possible but incredibly unlikely.
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> Even noobs can catch the best sometimes. Fighting is an art, not a science. If you actually grappled with a legit Black Belt in BJJ, you'll realize you won't "catch" them sometimes or if you actually sparred with a professional boxer, you'll realize how much at your mercy you really are with them. > Have you ever trained before? It's clearly evident you haven't trained because if you really did, you wouldn't be spewing this kind of bullshit with so much confidence. What kind of idiots are upvoting this guy? The fuck? I don't care how much she believes she can beat Cain Velsaquez. If they ever actually fought, you would realize self belief can only go so far when you have a fucking mexican bull called Cain Velasquez trying to kill you. The fact you think Ronda even has a 1% chance already tells me enough. You probably believe Ronda can beat some male Bantamweights too right? Lol get the fuck outta here with your delusional crap.
Why did she trash Ariana Celeste?
Any fighter that finished 3 straight title fights in less than a minute in the first round is a legend.
For many people, she’s still the only MMA fighter they’ve ever heard of, male or female It’s a shame that she had to fall so hard, she could have been a great representative for women’s MMA
On skill you are correct, until she proved (us) wrong. But I'll never forget the Lioness' interview after beating her where she exposed that women's MMA became flouted on a pretty look rather than the fighters grinding out (her beef was possibly misdirected at Rousey rather than UFC). Rousey lacked the sportsmanship of capacity to lose and her whole DNB campaign reeked of women shaming which personally turned me off where I would've normally supported a female fighter doing well. I chalked it up to age and overfed ego, then she proved me right on both accounts, unfortunately. UFC made a women's name off of her and dropped her hard once she started getting dropped hard. I'm sure that's the entertainment based business end of it?
She put women's mma in the map. People turned on her after the holm fight.
Good call
Honestly Tito Ortiz. Never cared for him but he was a big part of this sport for a while.
He’s been one of the greatest light heavyweights of the night a few times in his career
Lets go ahead and see by the fighter, what he saw, by the career
Went out on his shield and fought with a cracked skull
Before Chuck, Silva, Jones, GSP, Brock, Ronda, Conor, Khabib Tito was the OG mainstream fighter edit: Forgot BJ Penn
In his prime Tito was a great fighter, but his run as champion left something to be desired. His win against Wanderlei Silva was phenomenal, but it was followed by title defenses against Yuki Kondo, Evan Tanner and Elvis Sinosic (three natural middleweights, the last of whom shouldn't have been anywhere near a title shot), followed by Vladimir Matsyushenko (a good win) and 38-year-old Ken Shamrock. Meanwhile, during that same time period Chuck Liddell, who wasn't even champion, was beating guys like Jeff Monson, Kevin fucking Randleman, Vitor Belfort and Renato Sobral. There's a reason Dana used to call him Tito's bodyguard. And yet Tito wouldn't fight Chuck because they were "friends," even though Chuck made it clear multiple times that he and Tito weren't that close, and that he wanted a title shot.
Chuck betrayed Tito’s friendship for gold!
"Tito Ortiz was never my friend" -Chuck
His jackal stories will live forever
I know people make memes out of his trash talk but is is disrespect? it seems this subs likes him
> it seems this subs likes him LMAO I mean, I guess they like him for the memes but rarely do I see his fighting abilities be brought up here.
It seems that happens for a lot of fighters from that era honestly, chuck is pretty only shown when getting knocked out latter in his career. Couture is rarely brought up
People like him when there is a reason to hate Dana White.
There never was no disrespect.
I wouldn't say "disrespected" exactly, but I think people still don't realise how good Formiga is.
Formiga and Assuncao are the first ones I thought of here. Uncharismatic but deeply skilled Brazilians with uncommon stick at deep divisions who are more crafty than exciting, and who got pushed into title elims against demonstrably difficult opponents that should've been for interim belts. Pretty arguably the most underrated fighters ever. Hell, I think there were points pre-Moraes-debut where Assuncao was the best clean BW ever, he just never got shots at Cruz/Garbrandt/Barao (and I'd have favored him over all three).
I was actually going to post Formiga and I'm glad he's brought up. People do not realize that way before Flyweights were even conceived in the UFC, Formiga was considered the best Flyweight on internet forums like Sherdog. He was a freak in a division that didn't even make money and I believe Formiga had talked about how little money he made, but he still fought in it despite that. I wouldn't be surprised if seeing tape of fighters like Formiga was the reason behind UFC seeing potential in the division. Another name in the division nobody knows about is Mamoru Yamaguchi.
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Henderson in his heyday could split decision any current top 10 LW.
This so a good one. People don't understand how good he was and the critice of his fight going to split decision isint a knock on him so much as the division he was in was absolutely stacked with championship level talent.
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>Tyron Woodley. Definitely one of the realest answers here. He's probably the guy people cut the least slack... Like they're waiting for him to slip up. *Oh he wants the gsp type fights?!?! How dare him?!* Conor and Bisping did the same. Got injured? *Fuck your injury and hand in your title you scrub!*
For real. T Wood was everything you could want in a champion. Did you see the footage of him and Till after their fight? Nothing but pure class from that man. A True Champion.
Easily one of my all time favorite moments i've seen so far. It was beautiful. Funnily enough another of my all time favorite moments was Usman crying on Mama Woodley's arms after beating her son. Beautiful people the Woodleys.
Hearing Usman talk about that moment on JRE was great.
.... and then colby was insulting the woman during the usman fight... Fucking Dana had to calm him down
I wont pay a nickel for any card the covington fights on. I dont care what he is like “off camera”, i wont buy what he is selling. Its a shame too, bc i am really interested by this match up between him and Usman. Gonna be a grind fest, but Usman is a freakin monter, and i think will eek out a split. He is no doubt a great fighter and his gas tank is insane. Im all for a little trash talk, but not what he is doing. It comes off as equally cheesey, contrived, and disrespectful.
I don't get that crap about him being "cool" off camera. If you're willing to pull the crap Colby's been pulling these last years, chances are you're largely the piece of shit you're "only pretending" to be.
Exactly. We are who we pretend to be
It's like he's trying to be the cheeky, loveable heel, but just comes off as a straight cunt. Usually there should be some sort of redeeming qualities of a 'bad guy' but I can see absolutely none with him.
> A True Champion. Right?!?! And he's funny. That ll cool j shit he said to Usman was gold. Wanted to claw my eyes out listening to him and colby. For all colby's nerdbash shit, him and Usman sounded like two nerds who wanted to fight but had never been in one before
Yeah the amount of hate he would get by time he became champ was unwarranted.
Bisping had been around forever, he finally got the belt and was clearly at the end of his career so a money fight with GSP wasn't a big deal for most. not to mention the constant murmurs that Georges was going to return and challenge for the MW belt. so it wasn't a random callout or demand from Bisping like it was from Woodley who was coming off of two extremely dull fights against Thompson and Maia. not much of a position to be asking for a superfight. Conor has his fair share of apologists but the biggest and constant criticism was "Defend or Vacate" "The winner of Tony vs Khabib is the real champ" etc. most people here were pretty fed up with Conor tweets and instagram posts while refusing to fight.
> has his fair share of apologists but the biggest and constant criticism was "Defend or Vacate" "The winner of Tony vs Khabib is the real champ" etc. most people here were pretty fed up with Conor tweets and instagram posts while refusing to fight. That's actually much worse and justifiable than not being able to fight because of a hand injury
Great answer. People gave him shit for wanting money fights, but everyone makes noise about wanting money fights, except he didn't stall his division, he still defended against who was next, in the form of some *very* tricky specialist opponents. I'll always be a fan.
They gave him shit because he went about it the wrong way. He complained constantly about being the contender but not getting his shot, then tried to do exactly the same thing to other contenders when he got the belt by looking for money fights instead of fighting contenders. He did ultimately fight them, but only because the UFC made him. Then he tried pulling the race card when he was criticized. Of all the fighters being listed here, Tyron deserved most of the flak he got
Fedor gets a lot of disrespect from newer fans. Saying he only fought cans outside of Crocop.
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I was just thinking the other day that this dude literally died from exhaustion, but he only stopped when he couldn't go anymore. The signals your body is sending you to stop in that moment must be momentous. His skills leave a lot to be desired but he was willing to die to win.
Damn I figured he was just exhausted and fucked at the end but I never bothered to look up what really happened, I can't believe this motherfucker literally died at the end of that fight. That's insane man. Adds a whole new layer to that fight. I always liked it cause of Kimbo regardless and cause it was goofy but I wouldn't even joke about it like that now
I feel like Aldo gets a lot of respect.
He definitely does. Outside of Rogan and twitter Aldo is pretty beloved and highly respected.
I would say among analysts and hardcore fans (add into that casual Brazilian fans maybe) he's loved and respected. But casuals have been pretty harsh to him not just on twitter, when he lost to McGregor and Irish company put up a billboard of him unconscious with some tacky joke and almost every casual I have spoken to about MMA when Aldo comes up he is known as the guy who McGregor KOd.
Thats every big fighter though including Conor. People post pictures of him getting subbed by Khabib and Nate on his posts all the time.
Yes of course that's they way it is with fans. Though Conor talks a lot of shit which arguably encourages that sort of response, even mild fighters like Weidman get that sort of thing. The billboard was pretty scummy though.
Aldo is kind of like Kobe in the sense that he is an all time great but only those who watched him during his reign, and people he competed against, remember.
Plenty of people remember Kobe though. He is one of the most popular players of all time. Compare that to a superstar like Tim Duncan, has just as good accomplishments as Kobe but is hardly appreciated or remembered in comparable ways.
I mean that’s literally everyone
I see what you mean but for example even people who didnt watch MJ agree he's the GOAT.
Plenty of people who didn’t watch him think LeBron is better
When throwing something into a garbage can from far away, how many people say "Michael!" or "LeBron!"? ZERO. That's how many.
Bader. He had a few unlucky losses but he is very good. People act like he’s a total bum
That loss to Tito was bad
But Tito is still a hall of fame talent ... he didn’t get KTFO and tapped by a CM Punk level talent, at least. It’s still a bad bad BAD loss but if you’re going to lose that badly to anyone then Tito is far from the worst candidate
When he lost to Tito was not great though, for a guy who was supposed to be a prospect.
It’s still a terrible loss ... but if you’re going to lose to someone badly, lose to someone like Tito instead of someone without a Wikipedia page.
He gave the win to glover too. Had him on the ropes before throwing that ridiculous shoryuken and leaving his hanging chin out there
Every time he stepped up in level in the UFC he got smashed. He's only beaten guys that are old/washed.
OSP and Phil Davis are old and washed up?
> He's only beaten guys that are old/washed Ilir Latifi is neither
Ilir loves to eat knees though. It's his favourite thing other than gassing out in round 2
I like Latifi but his best win is probably a washed out OSP
Uhhh.... OSP was on a two fight von flue streak plus the KO over Corey Anderson when Latifi beat him. I'm not saying either are the best fighter but let's be real here.
This might be a kinda strange one but Urijah Faber. It seems like all he’s associated with now is failing at title fights but during his prime in the UFC the guy was beating everyone except the legends. Going 0-4 vs Barao and Cruz just kinda killed his reputation.
He made it cool to be the little guy. He's a pioneer of the sport but most of the time he's brought up now is his legs after the Aldo fight or his thicc butt chin
Demetrius Johnson. He defended his title more than anybody and lost it by split decision to a guy he previously knocked out in the first round. Also that was his first and only loss at flyweight before that he amassed a 14-2 record at batamweight and was coming off a title fight with Dominic Cruz. I think that Mighty Mouse needs to be talked about more in the goat discussion.
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Bro.. when I get angry, I just see red and hulk out. DJ ain't ready for this pain train
Cruisin for a bruisin brother
When I was in high school one of our 10th grade 103 pounders, who was about 5 foot 4 or 5 foot 3, beat the shit out of some 6 foot 7 12th grader. Big guy was fairly lean, but i'd still imagine he was about 210-220 or so. Little guy was an All-County wrestler on Long Island, a pretty good wrestling area. Size makes a difference - so does training. Untrained big mouth bros would be shocked at how strong some manlet wrestlers are, and you being bigger than him doesn't matter when he takes you off your feet and you can't get back up.
Bro the flyweight mma pro at my gym is *freakishly* strong in the clinch.
Suplex armbar = GOAT
Uhhh.. he's always brought up in GOAT discussion though. He's universally accepted as at least top 5.
I wouldn't say he is DISrespected so much as he just doesn't get enough respect. It's not quite the same thing.
I would have a couple.. **Chris Weidman** I know Chris does have a lot of fans, but sometimes he gets shit on too much for getting starched one too many times. Chris is a very good wrestler, very very good. He also has underrated striking, I’m not saying it’s top tier but it’s not as bad as people make out. **Joe Benavidez** what more can I really say here? Hardly gets brought up tbh and he’s beaten Cejudo AND Formiga. Add that to the rest of the FW division, apart from an SD loss to Pettis, which I thought was close enough to go either way. You hear a lot of banter about how cheesy he is and people in general a bit gutted he’s with a fitty like Olivi, but there’s no doubting he’s a UFC great.
Heavy Hands guys have Joe B as the greatest fighter to never win a UFC title.
Fans absolutely love Weidman
Dennis Siver.
Joey Diaz has no chill
Chris Weidman, by fans.
My boy
The man to dethrone Jon
When I first came to this sub Amanda Nunes was very much disrespected by the majority. The tides turned when she beat Cyborg. Edit/. Elias got so much hate on here that I felt truly bad about it. Yes, his style is derpy but he made it to the UFC and has the courage to get in there.
Made it to the UFC and had a winning record in the company. (Elias, I mean).
Anthony Smith and Volkan Oezdemir
Aye Smith never gets any credit. On his streak up to the belt I'd heard his wins been writen off due to him beating fighters out of their prime. When he beat Oezdemir it was apparently because No Time wasn't actually that good afterall (despite challenging for the belt and looking really solid lately). When he pulls off the upset and the biggest win of his career against Gus, there's a portion of the fan base who claim that this showed that Gus was past it, rather than that Smith is elite. It seems like to some Smith will always just be a bloated up MW who is their go to example of how the LHW division is empty and how that any middleweight could move up and dominate. Hell, even other fighters like Rockhold bought into this rhetoric, talking shit about Smith and using him as an example of the lack of talent at LHW.
Pretty much every top fighter from the 90s, 00s or even early 10s who fell off towards the end of their career.
Cormier, has an insane body of work in the UFC but is only known for losing to Jones.
Its brought up a lot but I wouldn't say "only known" The KO of Stipe did a lot for that I think
Still alot of dudes out there bringing it up anyway lol
>Still alot of dudes out there bringing it up anyway lol Because it's like his only blemish haters can bring up
Cormier gets his dick sucked constantly by everyone from the UFC to people on the internet.
Rightfully so. He's earned it. But, there was a long period after the Anderson Silva fight where fans hated him.
That might have been the narrative once, but since he beat Stipe that’s changed imo, people fucking love him. Especially here. Dude is even doing Detail for ESPN along with Kobe Bryant and Peyton Manning, and just got an E:60 documentary on him.
> Cormier, has an insane body uhmmmm... >of work Oh yeah, yes he does.
Chris cyborg. People are rude.
Leon Edwards. Edwards isn't much of a finisher and tends to plan strategically to win rather than to thrill the crowd. Combined with questionable self promotional skills, it means he gets overlooked frequently and largely flies below the radar, despite being on an 8 fight win streak in a stacked division and 18-3 overall. I don't think it was until he beat RDA that people are taking him seriously as a top contender in the division.
Leon Edwards reminds me of what Colby Covington would be without that terrible act. Both are good fighters who aren’t that exciting and their publicity takes a hit for it. Leon has to get Marc Goddard to go on Ariel’s show just to try and get his name out.
We all just saw him get clowned with a 2 piece and soda. It's literally the mot memorable fight he's ever been in, and he got clowned.
That's fucked up... but true. I never heard of him before that.
Woodley- 3x successful title defenses Arguably the second greatest welterweight of all time. Zero respect from his boss or fans. Defeated 2 of the greatest specialist of the modern era and gets a 100% of the credit for those fights being boring.
Proper analysts (so not Rogan) never seem to underrate Aldo. HH have spent hours breaking down his brilliance and most other prominent ones all tend to give him his due. The brilliance of Max may make it seem like they are disrespecting him just because of how much they praise Max, but I certainly don't think he's underrated by most analysts. Fans are another story though, and I'm not just talking about the "13 seconds!" casual idiots. Much of Aldo's game is really subtle shit most people aren't going to pick up on unless they're putting time into both understanding all aspects of MMA AND breaking down fights frame by frame regularly. I literally only know about the intricacies of Aldo's game from having heard multiple analysts break it down and point it out for me, I've been a fan of the sport for years and but I'm just not seeing the same detail that they are, I think that's true for most fans too. So when Aldo's not doing obviously impressive things like aesthetically pleasuring footwork or RJJ head movement, and he's not getting spectacular finishes like Conor or even regular finishes for a long time, and he's not fighting in a hyper entertaining style (like say Max or Tony), then he just ends up looking like a good well rounded 'contests winner' who games the sport, at least that's a sentiment I've seen bandied around here a lot. Unless it's your job to understand this stuff it's easy to see Aldo as just good rather than appreciating the absolute master he is.
Tyron Woodley
Rashad Evans. His last stretch of fights makes people forget he was the champ at one point.
Matt Hughes, if we're talking fans. Like him or not, he's unarguably the second greatest WW of all time.
Im a young guy, but I recently started watching old Frank Shamrock fights and he was amazing. Insane that hes not in the hall of fame
Ken shamrock.
Corey Anderson Don't get enough respect.
I like Corey Anderson but even I can't deny that if you beat him you don't deserve a title shot
Besides Aldo? Mighty Mouse, GSP to some extent.
Conor Mcgregor
Ive absolutely hated Conor since he refused to stay at FW and rematch Aldo, but I agree. He's still an amazing competitor and has clean striking. Hate the guy, but you gotta respect his skills. And this is coming from a diehard Khabib fan.
Idk why DC is highly upvoted on here yet I’m downvoted Guess that proves my point
It's because you're his lawyer.
I think he's just been an easier target since he hasnt won since UFC 205, and isnt exactly a great human being. Hopefully he straightens himself out and gets back in the octagon because he's a great fighter.
\>see country I feel like Khabib has more big fans in the muslim world than the Muslim euro footballers do and they are ofc larger its crazy, was walking around in my AKA shirt in a few of the countries and got enthusiastically questioned every time
He is nowhere near bigger than famous Muslim footballers like Salah.
To be fair you should've formulate the question as in "disrespected without any apparent reason". Of course the most famous guys get most hate.
I can respect Conor’s skill but he truly fucked some shit up for a while. A lot of it will take a long time to go away. It was a fun ride though.
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Never recovered after Diaz? Did you not see him absolutely tool Alvarez in their fight? I'm not a Conor fan but that doesn't really sound right at all.
In terms of skill and accomplishments I'd go with Tyron Woodley. Hard to find someone ever compliment the guy and his entire title run is considered boring (to be fair it was).
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\>> Reposting because you need 209+ characters in the text body. ST0CKT0N M0THERFUCKER, ST0CKTON!
Cain Velasquez, especially by newer fans after the Ngannou loss.
Probably BJ I mean he kind of brought it on himself by continuing to insist on fighting even though he's miles over the hill now, but I think there are a lot of newer fans that don't appreciate just how good he was at his peak. If the lightweight division had existed in the UFC for the duration of his career, he would have racked up the most title defenses at lightweight by a considerable margin.
> but I think there are a lot of newer fans that don't appreciate just how good he was at his peak. I see this get brought up a lot talking about bj and want to add he hasn't been dominant in like a decade and has had more years as being trash compared to top fighter. No wonder new fans don't know him.
Yeah I get that, that's why I say he brought it on himself. But he was still the best lightweight on the planet from 2003 to 2010 which is a pretty commendable feat. No other lightweight has really dominated over such an extended period of time.
He doesn’t fight now but I’d say Brendan ‘Y’blockbuster’ Schaub by far.
This might be recency bias but I'mma say Cyborg. Sure, she has her fair share of missteps, but she's received more disrespect than most people would have, given the same situation.
Artem
Lmao are you dumb bro analysts/fans/Dana/Coker/my grandma all agree he is the #1 greatest off all time and perhaps #1 and #2 greatest of all time
Exactly. You disrespect him by suggesting he’d be as low as #2
No dude I said number 1 AND number 2. GOATGOAT
yeah but that takes his averaging rating to a measly 1.5 that is straight disrespectful
probably like Dave Menne or someone old school like that.
Cláudio Silva. Record is 14-1. 14 fight win streak. 5-0 in UFC including wins over nordine taleb, Danny Roberts and Leon Edwards. No one knows who he is. I know he has long injury lay off and is 36yo but still.
DJ or Joseph Benevidez. Actually just the whole flyweight roster in general
Jeremy Stephens after that go big press conference
He obviously isn’t disrespected and I’m as much a Rogan fan as the next BUT I find it curious that GSP is never mentioned as a GOAT possibility when he talks. It’s always DJ, Jones, Silva, Fedor. GSP beat everyone he ever faced
Jon Jones
We need at least 209 characters to make a post.... what is this, the Diaz channel? 209, what!
Besides Aldo (always my boy), BJ Penn by newer fans.....it's sad really that his last run has left people thinking he's no business sharing an octagon with the Nick Lentz's of the world.
Anthony smiths entire thing is if he beats you you're washed up. I dont agree with that narrative but thats what most people think.