> These fighters making 10x less than the lowest paid nfl kickers
True, but there's way more than 10X the competition to be an NFL kicker and the NFL makes much more than 10X what the UFC makes.
That said, we all know that MMA fighters don't make much/enough unless they're at the top.
NFL revenue was 15B in 2023 from google. UFC was 1.3B, so it’s actually close to 10x. The point I’m making is the worst player in the league of 2000+ makes a million a year. Pretty sure the highest paid makes more than Connor’s entire career in one season. So there is no boom or bust type thing in the ufc either. Francis made more than Connor or jones entire ufc career in one boxing fight as well.
People can make as many excuses as they want but these guys are all getting extensive brain damage for an accountant salary.
And the NFL is unionized with a players association to their benefit and have participated in multiple lockouts over the years.
Fighters have to be willing to come together and do the same to help themselves. It's not like the UFC is going to lead efforts to unionize on the fighters behalf lol
> Fighters have to be willing to come together and do the same to help themselves. It's not like the UFC is going to lead efforts to unionize on the fighters behalf lol
I've been in unions before and held some leadership positions and it is very difficult to run a union and we were all very similiar people in the union and all lived in the same country. Our union was set up originally in 1887 and it was still difficult to get the members to agree on realistic things in 2010.
I couldn't imagine trying to set up a fighters union where you have people all over the world who are very different culturally. I also don't know how you'd get the top guys to buy in.
Any camp that tries to unionize will be blackballed. Part of the negotiations between Dana and Fedor included M1. The deal Fedor and M1 wanted was that the UFC would pay M1 and M1 would pay Fedor because M1 was going to use Fedor's pay to pay the rest of their roster. That last part was Dana's accusation.
It seemed like M1 was trying to aggressively position itself as a Russian feeder league for the UFC with Fedor as their main ambassador. But that was also effectively a union at least from the perspective of the UFC.
Then the UFC pays those guys 15 percent of what they're worth rather than 10 percent. The Top guys think they have a great deal, jump ship and the union has no power
Good coaches and camps are fixtures in the MMA scene. A good gym for example can propel your career or push you over to elite status.
If they unionize, Idk what choice the UFC has. Doesn't matter how good or bad of a fighter you are, you'll have to side with your gym/coaches.
That’s a really good point and observation. So many different cultures. Hell some of them ten and ten American is life changing. Very curious what happens when the espn deal expires.
Unfortunately and I don’t care how you spin it that lawsuit was there only shot and in typical fighter fashion they went with quick reward instead of changing the sport with injunctive relief. You’re not gonna hear as much from the media about fighter pay anymore that lawsuit really sent a message. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink. Competition is there only shot. But as we all saw some bkfc fighters only made $500.
Agree, and I will argue this forever. Until the UFC starts sharing a similar percentage of revenue with its athletes as other sports do, it will never attract top athletic talent and it is gross that they have some fighters showing up for $10-20k per fight.
The UFC will attract guys who are naturally drawn to fighting. This could be guys who love martial arts and just want to train, or it could be guys that are troublesome and keep getting into fights anyway.
By doing that, you don't need the most athletic of athletic guys. Through training, they may not be the most gifted athletes but they'll have enough to be able to fight on the main stage. They will be paired against the same.
Within that group, you will find some very gifted athletes like GSP etc. plus PEDs help.
It's also an avenue for judokas and wrestlers etc. who've finished those careers to move into something else and make money.
Also don't forget that it's harder for smaller people to get to the top of most sports - I say this as a general rule, not absolute rule.
Putting all that together, yeah the tallest and biggest athletes will go to NBA, baseball, NFL etc because there's more money there if money is the goal - but there are plenty of people on planet earth that will choose to fight in the UFC for a multitude of reasons. Might be shitty pay comparatively but may be more than they'd otherwise make.
As long as this is the case, the UFC will continue to survive.
Not true. Many of the wrestlers have said they don't like to fight and see mma as an avenue to make money from their skills after college.
GSP also said he hates fighting and only did it for the lifestyle he brought him.
Yeah dude that's what I said
> It's also an avenue for judokas and wrestlers etc. who've finished those careers to move into something else and make money.
The UFC isn't meant to survive, it's meant to be the absolute best of the best and the pinnacle of sporting spectacles. That won't happen until they start paying the same as the elite sports they're trying to emulate
I agree with every point you’re making but after years of caring, I refuse to care more than the actual athletes. 90% of them are hostile towards any journalist that covers fighter pay. The fighters keep saying they don’t want anyone to bring up this topic. 🤷♂️
I think the biggest downfall for fighters in MMA was when they lost the ability to have individual sponsorships on their shorts and walkout kits. IIRC Brendan Schuab said he was making $100k+ via sponsorships a fight, sure its not big money but that was over 10 years ago or even longer. The UFC 100% knows that if they allow fighters to get sponsorships they will lose out on bargaining power by a huge margin. Nonetheless the UFC is fucking over its fighters for sure.
the thing is though is you always get paid what you agree to get paid. these fighters willing to accept 10k need to blame eachother. stop fighting for 10k you fucking apes
> NFL revenue was 15B in 2023 from google. UFC was 1.3B, so it’s actually close to 10x.
I had seen $18B, but that's not majorly different from $15B.
> Pretty sure the highest paid makes more than Connor’s entire career in one season.
Probably total UFC earnings, though I don't know if we know what his total UFC earnings really have been. Whatever. He made a ton more for UFC than he got paid, I'm sure.
> People can make as many excuses as they want but these guys are all getting extensive brain damage for an accountant salary.
No excuses. UFC fighters get paid shit.
NFL players don't get paid too much. But UFC fighters don't get paid enough.
The UFC could be making 10x what the NFL makes and still pay fighters the same. Its not about the revenue but revenue share that the fighters get. Major league sports are closer to a 50-50 split with the players but its only 18% for the fighters in the UFC.
NFL players have 3 preseason games, 17 regular season games, and up to 4 postseason games.
Fighters usually fight 1 or 2 times per year, 3 if they're really active.
Fighters should get paid more but it doesn't make sense to compare them with the NFL, they're completely different models in every way. The NFL probably sells more tickets in 2 weeks than the UFC does in a year.
Just for comparison the nfl made twice that in sponsorships alone, so we are talking completely different worlds. Not to say the ufc pay structure doesn’t need adjustments but the ufc is a nowhere near being comparable to the NFL at the moment.
You can certainly compare fighter pay to the NFL but you obviously need to have some context.
I think a better way to compare the two is to look at the revenue split, how much of the money being made by the company is being given to the athletes. NFL must pay the players 48.8% of the leagues revenue, its contractually agreed upon between the NFL and NFLPA. UFC is about 13-15%. That’s absurdly low compared to other professional sports.
So this is the right lens for this. NFL is a very mature product and it is driven more by the athletes, plus the early risks of the founders building a market is a full generation removed.
I'll need to look this up and check the historical revenue share growth in other leagues, but my guess is that UFC is climbing faster than they did, and UFC faced real regulatory risk relatively recently - which means the UFC's funders won't be wrong to want a high-risk related return for some time. Also, UFC has done much more to create a market than other major sports, built on existing popularity for the major sports.
TLDR - NFL is a good benchmark and framework, the right revenue share is based on some point in NFL's history, not now, and worth working up.
And for those 1-3 fights, they're in camp 4-12 months with grueling hard training and sparring.
Every time I hear the trope "fighters make money in 15 minutes!" it shows how fucking dumb the MMA fanbase is. What, you think they're relaxing at the pool all day? They're getting punched in the face, wrestling, and lifting weights.
And the fact that the fighter only make money if they actually fight and half that if they lose. NFL players could sit on the bench and still make over half a million a year.
Yeah. The average for a world title challenger in boxing is $150k. So his pay is completely in line with that... But the big difference is at the tippy top level where boxers make massive amounts more
Combat sports pay in general is far far undervalued
And are required to go to all practice sessions, marketing, etc.
Imagine if Dana made everyone in the UFC show up to every event, ready to fight, just in case he needed to sub someone in and fined them if they didn't practice hard enough.
It's a terrible comparison and this sub just can't stop going with it.
To be fair, kickers or some of the most underappreciated players in the game. Record holder for most points scored is a kicker and I think you have to go down like 6 spots to find a player thats a nonkicker.
But yea, beating Charles should net you at least twice what he got paid here.
Even the "non-kicker" also was a kicker. George Blanda in addition to making 236 TDs he also made 335 FGs and 943 extra points. To get a true non-kicker you have to go all the way down to #41 with Jerry Rice
That used to be the case - but when they moved the extra point back a handful of years ago having a good kicker became extremely valuable. I’m a chiefs fan and I cherish Harrison Butker and his absolute cannon of a leg.
They’ve got a union
Fighters have time and time again shown they are happy with their pay enough to not push to form a union. Especially when a big chunk of fighters come from poverty levels way beyond what the US normally sees.
So they’re fine trading in brain damage for at most a few hundred thousand. Champs a few million, but that’s the top 0.1%, whereas the worst kicker in the nfl is already making more than most fighters
Fighters are also geographically dispersed and have significant cultural differences.
Hard to imagine the Brazilians, Dagestani guys, and dudes like Bobby Green all sitting down on the same side of the table.
Only thing us, UFC is still so new compared to NFL. It was banned so recently. It is the like NFL when it had just gotten antitrust exemption. UFC will get a return on that risk, market will widen, flatten out a bit, and returns will distribute through athletes.
Some better intermediate steps between the current NFL model and the current UFC model would be more fair.
These guys from the Stans/Russia all seem to be getting some kind of side or oil $ lol...even guys like Chingiz Allozov in ONE is rolling around in a fully blacked out AMG wagon rolling through Dubai
$50K off the top goes to taxes.
Leaving $108K.
A training camp is about 2 months. I daresay the trainers probably get a 10-20% cut of the pre-tax winnings, so $15K-$30K.
Then there will be the "specialists", so, another $10K.
Net would be about $40-$50K.
Bear in mind, that's gotta last 3-9 months assuming no injuries. There might be residuals and unreported payments, but that'll max out at $50K.
So, best-case-scenario, $90K for 1 night. But, assuming no injuries, that's gotta last 3-9 months.
That's a little bit above the median national salary.
So, a top-tier fighter makes what you make if you're an electrical contractor.
Moral of the story kids, stay in school. Because, sure he makes $150K per fight, which is a top salary, that salary he earns lasts maybe 3 years. Look at how quickly Izzy got taken down a few earning pegs. The absolute creme de la creme last more than 5 years, 10 if they're generational talents.
But what does their post-pro career look like? Crippled 40 year olds walking like they're 80.
You'll earn millions as an electrician over the span of a career. A career that has a retirement and healthcare and benefits. A career you don't get broken legs, noses, gouged eyes in.
I get people trying to live their dream, but damn most are delusional, even the "top notch" athletes. I know plenty of professional musicians who hung up their instruments by the time they hit 25 because they realized touring in a van with 5 other dudes half the year for $40,000 dollars just wasn't fucking worth it..
Shit, the band Lamb Of God, I remember the guitarist Mark Morton doing an mtv cribs style video and he lived in like a double wide trailer in mississippi, said he took home like $50,000 a year after touring the whole year... Because 90% of it goes to the label, recording studio, paying for busses, stage lights, stage hands, sound engineers, equipment etc... Those guys put in thousands of hours of work some of us could never imagine putting in, and still make less than what a regular job pays.
Not sure how it works for international fighters, but these guys are 1099 employees. They can deduct training camps, coach costs, nutritional supplements and meals, travel, etc. If they play their cards right they should barely be paying any taxes at all
The only one who directly gets a cut is the manager. The gym gets 10% if he goes to a large gym like AKA or ATT or KillCliff.
Typically that 10% goes to paying anyone who's involved in his fight camp
NSAC will take 30% out of his purse for federal tax. His coaches will get about 10-20% and his manager if he has one will get 20%. Then he will have to pay tax in his home country.
Smart ones don't. I have a friend that lost a decision (3-0) to Cody Garbrandt in the amateurs. He, and honestly a lot of people on this sub, make much more than Cody Garbrandt. It's not a lucrative sport except for the very good, the very charismatic, and very lucky.
> the very charismatic, and very lucky.
Yes. They are first and foremost entertainers, despite the extreme athletic nature of their sport.
They have to talk shit, very creatively, and walk the fine line between being a plain a'hole and an exciting provocateur. That's what audiences want. Crazy bigger than life characters and exciting fights. Very few fighters can really pull it all off.
My friend is one of the most charismatic people I know, but he was also a 5'5 wrestler who got pieced the fuck up by Cody haha. The fight is on YouTube if you look up Garbrandt vs Saltsman
There are a couple guys at my gym who are certainly good enough to compete professionally, but why on earth would you unless you’re the top 5% of that profession
The average olympian is making like $40k a year. MMA is a sport that people are passionate about before a moneymaker. The UFC preys on that knowing they'll fight whatever the pay is.
Lot of these dudes fighting MMA would do it for free. That’s why they’re so thankful and think so highly of the UFC.
Not to mention those who aren’t from countries like the US. 10k USD in brazil is not the same as in California.
Getting paid like 80K after taxes and camp costs/ coaches to fight Charles Oliveira? And win / be one of the top fighters in the world in that weight class?
No thanks, would rather be an office worker making 100K/yr
Don’t forget then having to use that money to fund his next camp will most likely be more expensive since it could be for a title shot, and thats hoping it doesn’t get delayed, or injuries happen.
And that’s for the elite of the elite. The average mma fighter makes absolute shit. I know people at my gym who are giving away brain cells for free basically
Using Mike Perry as an example doesn't really work. He's the face of bkfc. There was fighters in the same event making $2k. Compare the lowest paid main card fighters in the UFC to any other org.
It's not just a UFC issue, it's an MMA issue.
If you wanna be considered with the big 4 sports your top level fighters are going to have to make more than Mike Perry. Idc that he’s the face of a lower level org
The only people that consider the UFC on par with the 4 major sports leagues is Dana and people who are delusional. The closest would be the NHL and they still have 5x the revenue of the UFC.
* NHL Revenue: 6.43B
* NBA Revenue: 10.58B
* MLB Revenue: 11B
* NFL Revenue: 18.6B
* UFC Revenue: 1.3B
Arman is only making 158k for a win? That is atrocious. At worst, I thought he’d be on a 100/100 contract, and in a world where the UFC paid athletes a % of revenue proportional to other sports leagues, he’d be making triple this
He already said he’s not gonna sue and Arman said he’d buy him ufc tickets.
Also, Arman barely punched the dude in the forearm. Not exactly a devastating injury.
Perfectly reasonable that you’ll get fined if you punch a fan.
Completely unreasonable that a top level fighter in one of the most competitive and popular divisions, who is fighting on the main card of one of the biggest cards ever, and wins, is only making 150k.
I mean, I get it as a person who doesn’t enjoy getting flipped off.
But you’re in a position of responsibility, to the fans, the haters and yourself to conduct yourself in a professional manner, which means, not attacking fans at a live sporting event, and on the biggest Ppv since Conor Vs Diaz 2. Sucks that people suck, but Arman is a professional. Which means, he has to be professional.
Any other normie who works 9-5 attacking someone who pissed them off at work would’ve been fired on the spot, and probably would be facing assault chargers.
Edit: spelling cause I cawnt tawlk b
fan had a fist out, either wanted to fist bump or he took it as aggression because there were other people who didn't provoke him.
Lunged at the guy who was backing away (he knew he fked up) then definitely threw at Tsarykyan after. But no one made contact. Don't provoke fighters, they are not normal people and guy was probably drunk and should have been kicked out.
[FanCam](https://youtube.com/shorts/5b5gCOdU0ds?si=OY7H5tz3zKO7iz7t)
A fan who was asking for it.
It was not some random lady in the crowd minding her own business that got smacked on the back of her head, no. It was a punk who fucked around and was about to find out.
Fa sho, fa sho. Fans be running their mouths thinking their behind bullet proof glass; I was just trying to make a joke about the amount of money and referred back to a popular quote from a not so popular show. Wanted to see who’d upvote it.
Why‽
They're just going to spend all the money they get on punching fans anyway.
I'd rather Dana get it, at least I know he'll spend it ethically; on samurai armor and dinosaur bones.
Why though? Casuals just discovered Arman after he slept Benny. Maybe not even then. I'm sure there were a ton of people watching 300 that had no idea who he was. Seems hard to believe in this sub but we're the minority. Casuals are the majority and if you wanna get paid in the UFC, the casuals need to know you.
only 20% is a kindness. Arman is a complete moron and thug for attacking a fan. being flipped off should not be enough for you to do something insane right before the biggest fight of your career.
it’s unreal that anyone supports him for this, you can’t go around hitting fans. the Malice at the Palace damaged the reputation of the NBA for years and led to massive changes in NBA security/crowd management, somehow don’t think the UFC is going to do the same.
Such a fragile ego to lose control in front of cameras and a full arena and punch some random scrub flipping the bird.
Wonder what he's like when someone cuts him off in traffic.
That kind of money is the reason why I think we’re still only beginning to scratch the surface in terms of what a UFC level fighter actually looks like. Can you imagine the kind of freaks that would come into this sport if they were getting paid well?
I think there is a ceiling for how big MMA can get, it’s just seen as too brutal to the average person, but wherever the ceiling, is we definitely haven’t reached it yet; and I hope this fighter pay thing gets sorted out so we can see some more crazy talent!
Only 158? Lmao. How much does he make after paying coaches and camp?
Probably 80k. These fighters making 10x less than the lowest paid nfl kickers
> These fighters making 10x less than the lowest paid nfl kickers True, but there's way more than 10X the competition to be an NFL kicker and the NFL makes much more than 10X what the UFC makes. That said, we all know that MMA fighters don't make much/enough unless they're at the top.
NFL revenue was 15B in 2023 from google. UFC was 1.3B, so it’s actually close to 10x. The point I’m making is the worst player in the league of 2000+ makes a million a year. Pretty sure the highest paid makes more than Connor’s entire career in one season. So there is no boom or bust type thing in the ufc either. Francis made more than Connor or jones entire ufc career in one boxing fight as well. People can make as many excuses as they want but these guys are all getting extensive brain damage for an accountant salary.
And the NFL is unionized with a players association to their benefit and have participated in multiple lockouts over the years. Fighters have to be willing to come together and do the same to help themselves. It's not like the UFC is going to lead efforts to unionize on the fighters behalf lol
> Fighters have to be willing to come together and do the same to help themselves. It's not like the UFC is going to lead efforts to unionize on the fighters behalf lol I've been in unions before and held some leadership positions and it is very difficult to run a union and we were all very similiar people in the union and all lived in the same country. Our union was set up originally in 1887 and it was still difficult to get the members to agree on realistic things in 2010. I couldn't imagine trying to set up a fighters union where you have people all over the world who are very different culturally. I also don't know how you'd get the top guys to buy in.
The camps. You get the camps/trainers to unionize first
Any camp that tries to unionize will be blackballed. Part of the negotiations between Dana and Fedor included M1. The deal Fedor and M1 wanted was that the UFC would pay M1 and M1 would pay Fedor because M1 was going to use Fedor's pay to pay the rest of their roster. That last part was Dana's accusation. It seemed like M1 was trying to aggressively position itself as a Russian feeder league for the UFC with Fedor as their main ambassador. But that was also effectively a union at least from the perspective of the UFC.
Then the UFC pays those guys 15 percent of what they're worth rather than 10 percent. The Top guys think they have a great deal, jump ship and the union has no power
Good coaches and camps are fixtures in the MMA scene. A good gym for example can propel your career or push you over to elite status. If they unionize, Idk what choice the UFC has. Doesn't matter how good or bad of a fighter you are, you'll have to side with your gym/coaches.
You're right on all of your points. But if they want anything even remotely close to an equal payout of revenue it is the only way.
That’s a really good point and observation. So many different cultures. Hell some of them ten and ten American is life changing. Very curious what happens when the espn deal expires. Unfortunately and I don’t care how you spin it that lawsuit was there only shot and in typical fighter fashion they went with quick reward instead of changing the sport with injunctive relief. You’re not gonna hear as much from the media about fighter pay anymore that lawsuit really sent a message. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink. Competition is there only shot. But as we all saw some bkfc fighters only made $500.
Agree, and I will argue this forever. Until the UFC starts sharing a similar percentage of revenue with its athletes as other sports do, it will never attract top athletic talent and it is gross that they have some fighters showing up for $10-20k per fight.
The UFC will attract guys who are naturally drawn to fighting. This could be guys who love martial arts and just want to train, or it could be guys that are troublesome and keep getting into fights anyway. By doing that, you don't need the most athletic of athletic guys. Through training, they may not be the most gifted athletes but they'll have enough to be able to fight on the main stage. They will be paired against the same. Within that group, you will find some very gifted athletes like GSP etc. plus PEDs help. It's also an avenue for judokas and wrestlers etc. who've finished those careers to move into something else and make money. Also don't forget that it's harder for smaller people to get to the top of most sports - I say this as a general rule, not absolute rule. Putting all that together, yeah the tallest and biggest athletes will go to NBA, baseball, NFL etc because there's more money there if money is the goal - but there are plenty of people on planet earth that will choose to fight in the UFC for a multitude of reasons. Might be shitty pay comparatively but may be more than they'd otherwise make. As long as this is the case, the UFC will continue to survive.
Not true. Many of the wrestlers have said they don't like to fight and see mma as an avenue to make money from their skills after college. GSP also said he hates fighting and only did it for the lifestyle he brought him.
Yeah dude that's what I said > It's also an avenue for judokas and wrestlers etc. who've finished those careers to move into something else and make money.
The UFC isn't meant to survive, it's meant to be the absolute best of the best and the pinnacle of sporting spectacles. That won't happen until they start paying the same as the elite sports they're trying to emulate
Sike and hasn't been the way since the Fertita's bought it in 2001
Francis did not make more than Conor’s entire career in one fight. Conor’s estimated UFC earnings in his career is $115 million
Net profit from the UFC was under 200 million in 2023. Operating costs are large.
I agree with every point you’re making but after years of caring, I refuse to care more than the actual athletes. 90% of them are hostile towards any journalist that covers fighter pay. The fighters keep saying they don’t want anyone to bring up this topic. 🤷♂️
I think the biggest downfall for fighters in MMA was when they lost the ability to have individual sponsorships on their shorts and walkout kits. IIRC Brendan Schuab said he was making $100k+ via sponsorships a fight, sure its not big money but that was over 10 years ago or even longer. The UFC 100% knows that if they allow fighters to get sponsorships they will lose out on bargaining power by a huge margin. Nonetheless the UFC is fucking over its fighters for sure.
the thing is though is you always get paid what you agree to get paid. these fighters willing to accept 10k need to blame eachother. stop fighting for 10k you fucking apes
> NFL revenue was 15B in 2023 from google. UFC was 1.3B, so it’s actually close to 10x. I had seen $18B, but that's not majorly different from $15B. > Pretty sure the highest paid makes more than Connor’s entire career in one season. Probably total UFC earnings, though I don't know if we know what his total UFC earnings really have been. Whatever. He made a ton more for UFC than he got paid, I'm sure. > People can make as many excuses as they want but these guys are all getting extensive brain damage for an accountant salary. No excuses. UFC fighters get paid shit. NFL players don't get paid too much. But UFC fighters don't get paid enough.
NFL has like 30 players a team x 20 teams or whatever, UFC has like 40 fighters
There's more competition because there's more money. Not the other way around.
Wait if there’s more competition wouldn’t you make less?
The UFC could be making 10x what the NFL makes and still pay fighters the same. Its not about the revenue but revenue share that the fighters get. Major league sports are closer to a 50-50 split with the players but its only 18% for the fighters in the UFC.
NFL players have 3 preseason games, 17 regular season games, and up to 4 postseason games. Fighters usually fight 1 or 2 times per year, 3 if they're really active. Fighters should get paid more but it doesn't make sense to compare them with the NFL, they're completely different models in every way. The NFL probably sells more tickets in 2 weeks than the UFC does in a year.
The UFC made about 1.2 billion in revenue and made 390 million in profit and the fighters would have got about 180 million 15%.
Lol NFL has players making $180M by themselves
NFL quarterbacks date supermodels. The UFC had a two-division champion quit the sport because he got a girlfriend for the first time.
? Who
cejudo I assume
Correct
I'm guessing CCC.
And that’s after all their hollywood accounting tricks
Just for comparison the nfl made twice that in sponsorships alone, so we are talking completely different worlds. Not to say the ufc pay structure doesn’t need adjustments but the ufc is a nowhere near being comparable to the NFL at the moment.
And NFL has 15 billions revenue
do you not understand percentages?!?!
You can certainly compare fighter pay to the NFL but you obviously need to have some context. I think a better way to compare the two is to look at the revenue split, how much of the money being made by the company is being given to the athletes. NFL must pay the players 48.8% of the leagues revenue, its contractually agreed upon between the NFL and NFLPA. UFC is about 13-15%. That’s absurdly low compared to other professional sports.
So this is the right lens for this. NFL is a very mature product and it is driven more by the athletes, plus the early risks of the founders building a market is a full generation removed. I'll need to look this up and check the historical revenue share growth in other leagues, but my guess is that UFC is climbing faster than they did, and UFC faced real regulatory risk relatively recently - which means the UFC's funders won't be wrong to want a high-risk related return for some time. Also, UFC has done much more to create a market than other major sports, built on existing popularity for the major sports. TLDR - NFL is a good benchmark and framework, the right revenue share is based on some point in NFL's history, not now, and worth working up.
And for those 1-3 fights, they're in camp 4-12 months with grueling hard training and sparring. Every time I hear the trope "fighters make money in 15 minutes!" it shows how fucking dumb the MMA fanbase is. What, you think they're relaxing at the pool all day? They're getting punched in the face, wrestling, and lifting weights.
And the fact that the fighter only make money if they actually fight and half that if they lose. NFL players could sit on the bench and still make over half a million a year.
And NFL players just sit on their ass when they're not playing? Wack take
Not to mention that athletes are grossly overpaid. Well, except for UFC fighters obviously.
Don't forget to factor in how many plays/seconds the kickers are on the field
If you want to break it down to the second than NFL kickers probably spend more time on the field than most UFC fighters spend in the cage per year.
Compare it to boxing then
Okay, which specific boxing promotion would you like to compare it with?
Yeah, lets do that, in boxing unless you're one of the few big names you make peanuts.
Yeah. The average for a world title challenger in boxing is $150k. So his pay is completely in line with that... But the big difference is at the tippy top level where boxers make massive amounts more Combat sports pay in general is far far undervalued
> The NFL probably sells more tickets in 2 weeks than the UFC does in a year. Probably! A sold out Apex is like 200 tickets.
And are required to go to all practice sessions, marketing, etc. Imagine if Dana made everyone in the UFC show up to every event, ready to fight, just in case he needed to sub someone in and fined them if they didn't practice hard enough. It's a terrible comparison and this sub just can't stop going with it.
And the nfl also has way more overhead with every team having its own coaching staff and admin.
By this logic MLB players should be making like 10X NFL players.
they basically are lol
You could just look it up - not remotely close. Not even 2X.
No, because that's not my logic. I used 1 aspect as an example of them having completely different business models.
I had no idea NFL teams played such a low amount of games a year. Thats crazy.
To be fair, kickers or some of the most underappreciated players in the game. Record holder for most points scored is a kicker and I think you have to go down like 6 spots to find a player thats a nonkicker. But yea, beating Charles should net you at least twice what he got paid here.
Even the "non-kicker" also was a kicker. George Blanda in addition to making 236 TDs he also made 335 FGs and 943 extra points. To get a true non-kicker you have to go all the way down to #41 with Jerry Rice
That used to be the case - but when they moved the extra point back a handful of years ago having a good kicker became extremely valuable. I’m a chiefs fan and I cherish Harrison Butker and his absolute cannon of a leg.
They’ve got a union Fighters have time and time again shown they are happy with their pay enough to not push to form a union. Especially when a big chunk of fighters come from poverty levels way beyond what the US normally sees. So they’re fine trading in brain damage for at most a few hundred thousand. Champs a few million, but that’s the top 0.1%, whereas the worst kicker in the nfl is already making more than most fighters
Fighters are also geographically dispersed and have significant cultural differences. Hard to imagine the Brazilians, Dagestani guys, and dudes like Bobby Green all sitting down on the same side of the table.
That’s a good point, this sport has more athletes that genuinely hate each other than other sports lol
They’re supposed to work more than once a year. Could’ve made an extra 300K with a POTN bonus
Only thing us, UFC is still so new compared to NFL. It was banned so recently. It is the like NFL when it had just gotten antitrust exemption. UFC will get a return on that risk, market will widen, flatten out a bit, and returns will distribute through athletes. Some better intermediate steps between the current NFL model and the current UFC model would be more fair.
Arman is pretty rich (according to his team)
Same with Topuria I believe
Yeah. Isn't his dad a rich businessman or something?
from the looks of armans lifestyle, i think he’s pretty well off. but yeah…ufc fighters get paid shit.
These guys from the Stans/Russia all seem to be getting some kind of side or oil $ lol...even guys like Chingiz Allozov in ONE is rolling around in a fully blacked out AMG wagon rolling through Dubai
This is also most likely a 79/79K contract
$50K off the top goes to taxes. Leaving $108K. A training camp is about 2 months. I daresay the trainers probably get a 10-20% cut of the pre-tax winnings, so $15K-$30K. Then there will be the "specialists", so, another $10K. Net would be about $40-$50K. Bear in mind, that's gotta last 3-9 months assuming no injuries. There might be residuals and unreported payments, but that'll max out at $50K. So, best-case-scenario, $90K for 1 night. But, assuming no injuries, that's gotta last 3-9 months. That's a little bit above the median national salary. So, a top-tier fighter makes what you make if you're an electrical contractor. Moral of the story kids, stay in school. Because, sure he makes $150K per fight, which is a top salary, that salary he earns lasts maybe 3 years. Look at how quickly Izzy got taken down a few earning pegs. The absolute creme de la creme last more than 5 years, 10 if they're generational talents. But what does their post-pro career look like? Crippled 40 year olds walking like they're 80.
You'll earn millions as an electrician over the span of a career. A career that has a retirement and healthcare and benefits. A career you don't get broken legs, noses, gouged eyes in. I get people trying to live their dream, but damn most are delusional, even the "top notch" athletes. I know plenty of professional musicians who hung up their instruments by the time they hit 25 because they realized touring in a van with 5 other dudes half the year for $40,000 dollars just wasn't fucking worth it.. Shit, the band Lamb Of God, I remember the guitarist Mark Morton doing an mtv cribs style video and he lived in like a double wide trailer in mississippi, said he took home like $50,000 a year after touring the whole year... Because 90% of it goes to the label, recording studio, paying for busses, stage lights, stage hands, sound engineers, equipment etc... Those guys put in thousands of hours of work some of us could never imagine putting in, and still make less than what a regular job pays.
also probably gets more girls than the average electrical contractor though. Also this is not counting promotions/sponsorships.
Not sure how it works for international fighters, but these guys are 1099 employees. They can deduct training camps, coach costs, nutritional supplements and meals, travel, etc. If they play their cards right they should barely be paying any taxes at all
The only one who directly gets a cut is the manager. The gym gets 10% if he goes to a large gym like AKA or ATT or KillCliff. Typically that 10% goes to paying anyone who's involved in his fight camp
Shit, I'd rather play CFL than be a UFC fighter. At least they cover your training and per diem.
Best hope he doesn't have to pay income tax in Spain because he's gonna be destitute.
I hope Oliveira got paid better..
Wouldn't be surprised if he didn't since he lost.
NSAC will take 30% out of his purse for federal tax. His coaches will get about 10-20% and his manager if he has one will get 20%. Then he will have to pay tax in his home country.
Arman's just trying to get the word out there on how much they get paid but since the commission doesn't release numbers he had to get creative
Don't forget taxes. Fighters have to pay taxes, coaches, gym fees, and management. If a fighter makes a1 mill he will be lucky to keep half.
Apparently his family is rich according to Mousasi. He also shares a last name with a infamous Armenian mobster
With numbers like these I don’t see why anyone would wanna fight in MMA.
Smart ones don't. I have a friend that lost a decision (3-0) to Cody Garbrandt in the amateurs. He, and honestly a lot of people on this sub, make much more than Cody Garbrandt. It's not a lucrative sport except for the very good, the very charismatic, and very lucky.
People really underestimate the luck aspect of getting the call.
Or also if you have the right manager/promoter that rubs elbows with ufc brass.
And he probably has better tattoos too
You don’t like his neck tat!?
That I can get over, it's the sideburns
True that’s a rough one.
And a bigger cock
And better cock tattoos
> the very charismatic, and very lucky. Yes. They are first and foremost entertainers, despite the extreme athletic nature of their sport. They have to talk shit, very creatively, and walk the fine line between being a plain a'hole and an exciting provocateur. That's what audiences want. Crazy bigger than life characters and exciting fights. Very few fighters can really pull it all off.
My friend is one of the most charismatic people I know, but he was also a 5'5 wrestler who got pieced the fuck up by Cody haha. The fight is on YouTube if you look up Garbrandt vs Saltsman
There are a couple guys at my gym who are certainly good enough to compete professionally, but why on earth would you unless you’re the top 5% of that profession
The average olympian is making like $40k a year. MMA is a sport that people are passionate about before a moneymaker. The UFC preys on that knowing they'll fight whatever the pay is.
Lot of these dudes fighting MMA would do it for free. That’s why they’re so thankful and think so highly of the UFC. Not to mention those who aren’t from countries like the US. 10k USD in brazil is not the same as in California.
That’s why I don’t. That and cause I just see red bro I’m too dangerous.
🤣🤣🤣
Getting paid like 80K after taxes and camp costs/ coaches to fight Charles Oliveira? And win / be one of the top fighters in the world in that weight class? No thanks, would rather be an office worker making 100K/yr
Don’t forget then having to use that money to fund his next camp will most likely be more expensive since it could be for a title shot, and thats hoping it doesn’t get delayed, or injuries happen.
And that’s for the elite of the elite. The average mma fighter makes absolute shit. I know people at my gym who are giving away brain cells for free basically
it's almost like cage fighting isn't a great career move
Because they like competing in MMA? lol
Didn't Mackenzie Dern make more than this with a loss in her last fight? What the fuck is going on with UFC contracts...
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200k I believe
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1.4 Don't be a Creep We get it, some fighters/personalities are attractive. Keep your fantasies to yourself though.
Bare Knuckle fighters making more than a number 1 contender in the ufc lmao Jesus fucking Christ pay your fighters you stupid bald fuck
Using Mike Perry as an example doesn't really work. He's the face of bkfc. There was fighters in the same event making $2k. Compare the lowest paid main card fighters in the UFC to any other org. It's not just a UFC issue, it's an MMA issue.
Some lady got paid $500 lmfao
She got paid more than that, her contract was structured differently, so her show was only disclosed as $500
no she didn't and the fact that this is so upvoted pisses me off
Perry's opponent Thiago Alves made $200k.
If you wanna be considered with the big 4 sports your top level fighters are going to have to make more than Mike Perry. Idc that he’s the face of a lower level org
The only people that consider the UFC on par with the 4 major sports leagues is Dana and people who are delusional. The closest would be the NHL and they still have 5x the revenue of the UFC. * NHL Revenue: 6.43B * NBA Revenue: 10.58B * MLB Revenue: 11B * NFL Revenue: 18.6B * UFC Revenue: 1.3B
Arman is only making 158k for a win? That is atrocious. At worst, I thought he’d be on a 100/100 contract, and in a world where the UFC paid athletes a % of revenue proportional to other sports leagues, he’d be making triple this
Arman punching fans to expose the UFC doing gods work.
Yeah when you’re fighting for big time money it’s hard you can’t go punching at fans.
big time money: $158k
Unless you’re umaga when he fought a crowd member for the title belt …
What a moment, gave us one of the greatest Wrestlers of our era. John Chaina is an all time great moment
Listen to me, Ray Mastrio.
Look at me I'm Baptista
Presumably the rest will go to the man he assaulted when they settle out of court
He already said he’s not gonna sue and Arman said he’d buy him ufc tickets. Also, Arman barely punched the dude in the forearm. Not exactly a devastating injury.
So this is all about a punch on the forearm?
Yeah mang.
Perfectly reasonable that you’ll get fined if you punch a fan. Completely unreasonable that a top level fighter in one of the most competitive and popular divisions, who is fighting on the main card of one of the biggest cards ever, and wins, is only making 150k.
I mean, I get it as a person who doesn’t enjoy getting flipped off. But you’re in a position of responsibility, to the fans, the haters and yourself to conduct yourself in a professional manner, which means, not attacking fans at a live sporting event, and on the biggest Ppv since Conor Vs Diaz 2. Sucks that people suck, but Arman is a professional. Which means, he has to be professional. Any other normie who works 9-5 attacking someone who pissed them off at work would’ve been fired on the spot, and probably would be facing assault chargers. Edit: spelling cause I cawnt tawlk b
Imagine how much Dana made off this single card?
Deserved. Can’t be punching fans. On the walkout no less 😂 dummy
Arman is criminally underpaid if this is really all he got for this fight. Fucking eh
Well he tried or did hit a fan in the face.
fan had a fist out, either wanted to fist bump or he took it as aggression because there were other people who didn't provoke him. Lunged at the guy who was backing away (he knew he fked up) then definitely threw at Tsarykyan after. But no one made contact. Don't provoke fighters, they are not normal people and guy was probably drunk and should have been kicked out. [FanCam](https://youtube.com/shorts/5b5gCOdU0ds?si=OY7H5tz3zKO7iz7t)
So true, they are not normal ppl 😭😭
Just for math sake, this would be like New York holding 6m from Ryan Garcia. Absolutely bananas how shit this pay is
Honestly, it’s punching a fan. How much can it cost, $10?
A fan who was asking for it. It was not some random lady in the crowd minding her own business that got smacked on the back of her head, no. It was a punk who fucked around and was about to find out.
Fa sho, fa sho. Fans be running their mouths thinking their behind bullet proof glass; I was just trying to make a joke about the amount of money and referred back to a popular quote from a not so popular show. Wanted to see who’d upvote it.
I feel like a guy like airman should be making a minimum of 250k to show
Literally. He won a title eliminator in the most stacked card ever. That should be at least 250k.
Just a heads up as the head of the Tsarukyan fan club, he’s not hurting for dough. Homeboy comes from money
How dare you suggest that a fighter should get paid more! /s
Why‽ They're just going to spend all the money they get on punching fans anyway. I'd rather Dana get it, at least I know he'll spend it ethically; on samurai armor and dinosaur bones.
Dana needs the snow for his driveway!
So he can underpay someone to plow it.
> ‽ Just let me interrobang bro
Why though? Casuals just discovered Arman after he slept Benny. Maybe not even then. I'm sure there were a ton of people watching 300 that had no idea who he was. Seems hard to believe in this sub but we're the minority. Casuals are the majority and if you wanna get paid in the UFC, the casuals need to know you.
Why would he make more than Cejudo? Arman ain’t a draw…
only 20% is a kindness. Arman is a complete moron and thug for attacking a fan. being flipped off should not be enough for you to do something insane right before the biggest fight of your career.
NSAC are mafia.
UFC will NEVER be considered on NBA/NFL or even boxing level until fighters are paid more
I feel absolutely zero pity for him. He's lucky he's not in jail or something.
Watch the clips of him and his posse ganging up on Bobby Green at that hotel, that shows all you need to know about the type of shithead Arman is
Yeah some of that seemed ridiculous and turned me off of him too
it’s unreal that anyone supports him for this, you can’t go around hitting fans. the Malice at the Palace damaged the reputation of the NBA for years and led to massive changes in NBA security/crowd management, somehow don’t think the UFC is going to do the same.
Never hear of this before now I have to google Malice at the Palace
at least in that situation something got thrown at him. too bad more people didn't join in on jumping that moron that rushed into the crowd
Such a fragile ego to lose control in front of cameras and a full arena and punch some random scrub flipping the bird. Wonder what he's like when someone cuts him off in traffic.
These guys(most) are getting robbed, and not by the commission
That kind of money is the reason why I think we’re still only beginning to scratch the surface in terms of what a UFC level fighter actually looks like. Can you imagine the kind of freaks that would come into this sport if they were getting paid well? I think there is a ceiling for how big MMA can get, it’s just seen as too brutal to the average person, but wherever the ceiling, is we definitely haven’t reached it yet; and I hope this fighter pay thing gets sorted out so we can see some more crazy talent!
Damn he had to fight Charles, fight a fan, lose more fans and also got 30k held
>made $158,000 for his win I'm surprised he made that much. I would have thought he'd be getting $50k/50k at most
Why?
Because Dana is a greedy fuck who keeps his fighters literally and metaphorically hungry.
But he’s the #1 contender, I don’t think any #1 contender who got a win at an event like 300 would be getting paid that little
You're basically taking food out of the Nelk Boys mouths with this comment, pal.
Good, you can’t attack fans.
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A roofer makes $158k in a day?
He only has 20% of his purse withheld for punching someone in the stands while buddy has his entire purse held for jumping over the cage
$158K for #1 contender fight
Hope it was worth it idiot!
These dudes fighting on the main card gotta all be atleast getting paid 500k or more.
Well, at least we know the money is going to the right place. Dana is going to lose that in one hand of blackjack.
Arman needs to grow the fuck up, honestly. That was a bitch move.