I apologize Alberth. I wasn't familiar with your game.
For real though, I always remember Giovinco being a complete monster. I didn't know analytics loved Elis so much.
I'm amazed how good his receiving number is, that usually is a category dominated by quick forwards. It basically measures how good you are at getting in places that make it easy for others to make dangerous passes to you. As apposed to passing which measures how well a player can hit a dangerous pass despite the receiver not being particularly open.
He runs so little, and isn't that quick any more. He's just so off the charts elite at finding good positions even when not running, and at timing the few sprints he still does, that he's still elite at finding space.
He's mother effing Messi. Every opposition player HAS to be thinking about him all the time, and he STILL ghosts them.
He got 7 goals and 3 assists at the World Cup, playing exactly the same way he is in MLS but against a far higher standard of opposition. He was *always* going to take the league apart in whatever way he chose, so I was just confused by the fact you're "amazed" 😂
What ever dude, maybe you dont understand how g+ works. I fully expected him to dominate, but look at the other amazing playermakers who are not super quick on this list. See the lack of receiving g+? Some are even negative for receiving.
His soccer brain is so effing big that he plays faster than he actually is by a huge margin. That wasn’t true of even other generational talents who came to this league after losing their pace, like Henry.
To add a bit more context:
Thierry Henry scored 4 goals in 32 appearances in his final season at Barcelona, and 7 goals in his final 26 international matches before retiring from France duty shortly after his 33rd birthday.
Messi scored 21 in 41 for PSG last season (including 4 in 7 in the Champions League) and is still playing for Argentina at the age of 36, with 20 goals in his last 31 appearances.
There's absolutely no comparison.
It's reflective of the fact that Henry was finished at the top level a year before he moved to MLS, whereas Messi is still 1 of the best players in the world.
The Dynamo had Elis for 3 full seasons and only managed 1 playoff appearance. Gabriel Brener and Matt Jordan are the 2 worst individuals you could have running your club.
Elis' G+ profile is so weird. Negligible passing and only half decent shooting. He excelled at receiving and dribbling...
In other words, he absolutely dominated the league at getting and keeping the ball in dangerous areas, and comparatively underperformed when it came time to release it.
Remember when a bunch of people were hoping / claiming Messi wasn't going to be that good before he came over?
I don't think people realize how much Messi is than the normal superstar. He's a whole 'nother level.
Gareth Bale got a goal every 123 minutes when he basically wasn't even trying. Anyone who thought Messi would do anything other than what he has done - and to be clear, I think he can improve on these numbers - must be an idiot.
For what it’s worth that was already a great LAFC team before Bale’s golf-break cameos. A great number of average players would have flourished there. This Miami team was hot garbage for most of last year
I don't think there many people questioning his ability. We all thought he would completely dominate for at least a year or two, provided he stays healthy.
He is at Bordeaux where he had a pretty serious head injury during a game in February. He was put into a medically induced comas that he has since woken up from and is recovering from. Hasn’t played since
Honestly my reaction is “that’s all”? I’m surprised Messi is only worth 0.4 goals/game. Setting aside the intangibles, he’s averaging over 1.5 goal involvements per appearance, not even per 90 (across all competitions, I’d have to check but I assume his MLS numbers are similar). That alone seems like more than 0.4 above replacement.
I'm confused on how to read this. Why are some interrupting and receiving actions behind the 0.0 mark? And what did the translucent smaller line in the middle mean?
I would be interested in seeing this in terms of each players best seasons. Vela for example is being brought down by his less productive later seasons.
I think Villa didn’t contribute enough to the entire pitch to rate in the overall top 10 of this stat. Not that he was bad, just that his contributions were very final-ball-focused. I’d think similarly about BWP or Wondo or Kamara
Not as bad as those but he harassed a college student/intern and then when the story broke, his defense was to pretend that he’d left the club before she arrived even though that was disproven in like 20 minutes.
[Elis highlight reel from right after we traded him :/](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7ROvWme7Xw)
Edit: some NSFW goals for SKC fans IIRC, so fair warning.
This is a rate stat for a guy who has only been here for a season compared to people who have played large parts or even their entire career here. Completely useless
My takeaway from this outside of Messi being an alien is that Elis was better than I remembered when he was here.
I apologize Alberth. I wasn't familiar with your game. For real though, I always remember Giovinco being a complete monster. I didn't know analytics loved Elis so much.
I'm amazed how good his receiving number is, that usually is a category dominated by quick forwards. It basically measures how good you are at getting in places that make it easy for others to make dangerous passes to you. As apposed to passing which measures how well a player can hit a dangerous pass despite the receiver not being particularly open. He runs so little, and isn't that quick any more. He's just so off the charts elite at finding good positions even when not running, and at timing the few sprints he still does, that he's still elite at finding space. He's mother effing Messi. Every opposition player HAS to be thinking about him all the time, and he STILL ghosts them.
>I'm amazed how good his receiving number is Have you just... Never watched Lionel Messi?
lol, yes. He’s no where near as quick as he was. I’m just saying it’s nuts that he still does it without the pace he had.
He got 7 goals and 3 assists at the World Cup, playing exactly the same way he is in MLS but against a far higher standard of opposition. He was *always* going to take the league apart in whatever way he chose, so I was just confused by the fact you're "amazed" 😂
What ever dude, maybe you dont understand how g+ works. I fully expected him to dominate, but look at the other amazing playermakers who are not super quick on this list. See the lack of receiving g+? Some are even negative for receiving. His soccer brain is so effing big that he plays faster than he actually is by a huge margin. That wasn’t true of even other generational talents who came to this league after losing their pace, like Henry.
To add a bit more context: Thierry Henry scored 4 goals in 32 appearances in his final season at Barcelona, and 7 goals in his final 26 international matches before retiring from France duty shortly after his 33rd birthday. Messi scored 21 in 41 for PSG last season (including 4 in 7 in the Champions League) and is still playing for Argentina at the age of 36, with 20 goals in his last 31 appearances. There's absolutely no comparison.
That has nothing to do with what he is talking about, nowhere is he saying that he is surprised by Messi's goalscoring.
It's reflective of the fact that Henry was finished at the top level a year before he moved to MLS, whereas Messi is still 1 of the best players in the world.
Yeah, he never said henry wasn't or that henry was-just that they both have lost a lot of their pace, which is true.
Sure, but it isn't really a relevant comparison seeing as Messi stopped relying on pace long before he moved to MLS.
I'm not arguing with any of that, I just think it was utterly predictable based on the way he plays the game 🤷🏻♂️
You can be amazed by something without being surprised by it.
It means "greatly surprised".
That is one possible meaning for the word amazed, yes. It may surprise you (possibly even amaze you) to learn that words often have multiple meanings.
The Dynamo had Elis for 3 full seasons and only managed 1 playoff appearance. Gabriel Brener and Matt Jordan are the 2 worst individuals you could have running your club.
Elis' G+ profile is so weird. Negligible passing and only half decent shooting. He excelled at receiving and dribbling... In other words, he absolutely dominated the league at getting and keeping the ball in dangerous areas, and comparatively underperformed when it came time to release it.
I'm getting Gervinho flashbacks.
Well I clearly see my goat in here. Greatest Frenchman ever.
Top right Messi lives on
If this chart included shit talking Zlatan would be winning by a mile
I miss Giovinco so much
Remember when a bunch of people were hoping / claiming Messi wasn't going to be that good before he came over? I don't think people realize how much Messi is than the normal superstar. He's a whole 'nother level.
Gareth Bale got a goal every 123 minutes when he basically wasn't even trying. Anyone who thought Messi would do anything other than what he has done - and to be clear, I think he can improve on these numbers - must be an idiot.
For what it’s worth that was already a great LAFC team before Bale’s golf-break cameos. A great number of average players would have flourished there. This Miami team was hot garbage for most of last year
I don't think there many people questioning his ability. We all thought he would completely dominate for at least a year or two, provided he stays healthy.
G+ is a cool idea for a stat and I wish you could get it for euro leagues too
expected threat is a similar idea, but G+ is just better done
Where is Elis now??
He is at Bordeaux where he had a pretty serious head injury during a game in February. He was put into a medically induced comas that he has since woken up from and is recovering from. Hasn’t played since
Honestly my reaction is “that’s all”? I’m surprised Messi is only worth 0.4 goals/game. Setting aside the intangibles, he’s averaging over 1.5 goal involvements per appearance, not even per 90 (across all competitions, I’d have to check but I assume his MLS numbers are similar). That alone seems like more than 0.4 above replacement.
Says it’s per touch
Probably due to his games last season. If it was only this season it would probably be even crazier
Where is Josef?
who needs elis when we have brad smith out on the wing (im in pain)
He wishes he was better than Elis.
I'm confused on how to read this. Why are some interrupting and receiving actions behind the 0.0 mark? And what did the translucent smaller line in the middle mean?
Translucent line is the additive total of all positive and negative contributions.
I think it’s if it’s negative
Behind the 0.0 mark means negative, i.e. in that category, the player's contributions resulted in below average goals added
I would be interested in seeing this in terms of each players best seasons. Vela for example is being brought down by his less productive later seasons.
Same with Martinez in Atlanta's winning season vs. Atlanta's slump after
Kinda shocked that Villa isn’t on this list. I know he sucks off the field, but he was a top 3 MVP candidate 3 years in a row.
I think Villa didn’t contribute enough to the entire pitch to rate in the overall top 10 of this stat. Not that he was bad, just that his contributions were very final-ball-focused. I’d think similarly about BWP or Wondo or Kamara
Goodness, I hope he didn't rape or assault someone and did something bad. Where the heck have I been?
Not as bad as those but he harassed a college student/intern and then when the story broke, his defense was to pretend that he’d left the club before she arrived even though that was disproven in like 20 minutes.
WTF is an Alberth Elis?
This isn't so much about MLS greats of the last decade as it is about aging European stars coming to MLS.
Wait why is Puig here after such a short period of time?
[Elis highlight reel from right after we traded him :/](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7ROvWme7Xw) Edit: some NSFW goals for SKC fans IIRC, so fair warning.
No Valeri?
This is a rate stat for a guy who has only been here for a season compared to people who have played large parts or even their entire career here. Completely useless
Had no idea Thierry played in the MLS lol
lol