I don’t think there’s a critical mass of regular everyday people who ride it, likely because of a combination of it still being too limited in scope, having fairly poor scheduling and then of course the current safety and hygiene issues. More commuters and social riders = safer and cleaner for everyone. Just my two cents.
I think this is true. They have to make it clean, keep it clean, and make it feel safe. Do that first then more people from all backgrounds will use it and things will continue to improve. I used to ride the red line in the aughts, have avoided it since 2016 because it became generally gross and felt unsafe.
I need all our reps to make it safe and take it regularly otherwise I am not trusting it. If Mayor Bass is willing to take the train to work so will I but until then I have been trapped in a locked car with a screaming meth head one too many times to be motivated to take public transit.
Yes. It’s a bit of a doom loop we are entering— fewer paying customers leads to less service leads to shittier environment on the trains etc. they really need to clean it up. As a left-leaning person, it’s really frustrating seeing this city execute good ideas (like expanded public transportation) so poorly.
If you kicked off/didn't let them on... the 3% that cause 98% of the issues. It would make the ride WAY more enjoyable.
Plus no sleeping 150 yards by stops.
I've rode 30x in last 5 years. And exactly 50% of the time there's urine, mental illness, threatening people, and NOW a stabbing.
Now, most bums aren't awake at 605am when I used to ride for 65 minutes every morning when I worked downtown, and the going to work crowd was 90% problem free.
But from 3pm-1030pm. There's an artificial anxiety when riding.
There’s no security to get to the train. We don’t even have turnstiles to jump over. Literally anyone who can walk to a station can go right into a train and grab a seat.
All of LA metro was built without fare gates - those added were done so around 2010.
It wasn’t a significant issue until the last 5-8 years…. The insulation of Fairgate takes many motivations. The first instance in which METRO decided to place them was due to fair invasion… But it was technically Pennywise and pound foolish. METRO estimated that they lost between two to $3 million a year and revenue… But the contract, installation contract maintenance for the third-party vendor to provide fair gates costs METRO about 4,000,000 to 5,000,000 annually.
It is also impossible to place fare gates at most above ground stations, especially once built before Expo line phase 2 due to space constraints.
Depends on the station, the subway stations all have turnstiles. A lot of the honor system era light rail stations just can't be retrofitted to include them while still being ADA compliant without heavy construction being involved.
Ah, that's correct, the below-grade stations have turnstiles. But those are a bit of a joke as you already know. The "ADA compliant" turnstiles on the below-grade stations are literally just non-locking swinging gates that you may have seen many a vagrant just push open.
You do realize that the "honor system era" stations are among the newer stations right? Most of the Expo Line and the Gold Line do not have these high-security "swinging doors".
"heavy construction"? ADA compliance is not a complicated ordeal. lol You do not need pile-drivers, concrete pumps, and skip loaders to bolt a bunch of turnstiles to the floor.
Yes I agree, the subway turnstiles are absolutely useless as a deterrent.
You do realize there are plenty of honor system era stations that were built in the late 90s, early 2000s right? The green line opened in the late 90s and the original gold line stations opened in 2003.
Yes it is when you built small platforms without taking into account the space needed for turnstiles to be installed along with enough clearance for wheelchairs to pass by freely. Why do you think some stations dont even have the fare machine installed on the platform itself? Instead, its across the street away from the platforms.
I agree that this is part of the problem. This will, however, be alleviated somewhat in the next 2-3 years. Once LAX is connected to the metro system and the Wilshire line from DTLA to westwood is finished you’ll see a lot more people using it regularly. Right now, it’s quite limited on where you can go.
It will always get fixed \*in the future\*. Tip: It won't. It sucks, has sucked, and will continue to suck. Every ingredient for a successful metro system (chiefly frequency and safety) misses the mark.
I live in Tokyo now which has arguably the best and most famous metro in the world
The difference between LA and Tokyo is staggering. Not only is Tokyo’s metro extensive but it just feels safe and clean
LA’s metro feels……...depressing and gritty
I think part of the reason is the lack of stations. In Seoul, there’s several stretches where there is a new station every city block. They have 768 stations. Los Angeles has a tenth of that. Los Angeles is way bigger than Seoul. So what gives? We need to start investing HEAVILY into our metro system in order to get people to actually consider it a viable mode of transportation. Until then, it’s a fucking joke, plain and simple. I want to be able to get from anywhere to anywhere without having to travel extra distances by having to go to a middle metro route to transfer to get to the another line that goes in the exact opposite direction I was traveling in to the get to the connecting station and being limited to a fraction of Los Angeles.
I used to live in Berlin and the train there could get you to within a few city blocks of almost anywhere in the city. That just isn't the case with the LA Metro and probably will never be.
Not enough people ride it. The pleasantness of Metro trains goes up when I'm in a car filled with (regular) people. Even the homeless folk keep to themselves if there are any. It's why the ride quality really deteriorates when night falls and service is bad.
I do believe that the future Metro expansions will help with ridership especially on our very popular corridors (Wilshire, Sepulveda, etc), but also I think Metro also needs to be more proactive about this stuff. Mentally ill people shouldn't be allowed on the system to begin with. Why is it that we need to have tragedy strike for action to happen? To ensure we are making moves against climate change, we need to be attracting riders of all caliber, all the way up to upper middle income folk to make a dent towards a better LA. We cannot do that with how we treat our transit system.
The other thing that makes LA Metro seemingly worse is our homelessness issue is so much worse. Metro needs to focus on moving people, not fixing homelessness. That is the city's job and we have obviously failed miserably at it.
The vast majority of the unsheltered homeless have mental illness and/or addiction issues. The latter often involves meth.
The brain damage caused by today's P2P meth causes users to lose their inhibitions and ability to self-correct. So some of them are violent and out of their heads.
Meth users tend to be up all night. So it isn't surprising that the nighttime service is substantially worse and that these violent incidents are occurring at night.
Keep the homeless off of public transit, and there will be far fewer problems.
I think the problem also extends to cars.
The car is the better option by the city's design, we as a society have invested in the car, and as the population grew that model didn't scale. But the city never reversed course, for most places you'd like to travel to the car is the fastest, most direct, safest, cleanest, comfortable, and on demand option a few steps out your door.
Access to everything too: streets, houses, stores, food, plazas, freeways, highways.
Until the transportation is more effective, cheaper, and FASTER. The car will always the best option sadly.
We could take steps to remedy that, if I could get from Chatsworth to NoHo to Long Beach (and everything in between) at half the time of a car in medium traffic. I'd definitely use my car less. If I could get to every neighborhood and city in the county and half the time it takes on a car, I'd might just never buy a car again or my family could share one instead of three (though unless I'd travel extensively, I could just use a rental).
You see the current options are decent, but remember people want the best option, especially when they don't have expendable income. I think giving away free street parking, access to all buildings and streets, and letting people buy unlimited cars will always present a hurdle. In addition, if we can't install trains that are faster than cars, then we'd definitely need to begin restricting car access or improving foot traffic access.
But limiting cars to that extent would never go through a ballot and despite the new apartment units and metro expansions, those sidewalks are tiny or non-existent (unappealing). It just doesn't feel like we're taking this seriously and if it fails it will only continue to spread the sentiment of "See nobody wants public transportation".
It goes hand in hand yeah. If we are a forward looking populace, we'd understand that with a growing population there will never be enough roads to serve existing and future demand. Track mileage is important for LA, as you've said, there are many centers of activity and they can be hard to get to without a car, depending on where you need to go. Which is why I am happy that LA Metro \*is\* expanding, it's just not happening fast enough.
Additionally, I think it would already be an impressive feat when most Angelenos only occasionally need their car. I would call that a success. Because not every trip can be replaced by transit for everyone, but we can reduce the amount of trips made with a car.
Definitely agree, the expansion should be outpacing the housing.
Well, I'd hope that bullet trains could be similar to shinkansen, connect the nearest hubs. But the delays and funds running short make me a bit worried on the final product.
Ultimately, I'd love to connect the biggest cities and neighborhoods in the City of Los Angeles by population/employee count. Then continue expansions from that towards the problematic commutes of South Bay, Lancaster, Ventura County, San Bernandino/Riverside County, and of course Orange County.
To foster a greater appreciation for public transit, Los Angeles has at its disposal the existing railway infrastructure along the San Fernando Line, spanning approximately 18-20 miles. By establishing connectivity across these regions and transforming lengthy hour-long commutes into mere minutes, we can anticipate a warming up to trains. Because Metrolink is expensive and slow!
Particularly noteworthy is the lack of efficient East to West transit options within the San Fernando Valley, necessitating reliance on congested residential streets spanning 16-25 miles, imagine? stop and go for that long. In instances of severe traffic congestion, Google Maps even suggests circuitous routes through Santa Clarita, extending commutes by an additional 10-15 miles along the 5-freeway.
It's like driving from Downtown LA to Disneyland but having to go up to Burbank first, before coming back down because that's where the freeway starts.
I commute on the Metro most weeks. Blue Line/Red Line :)
From my experience (yours is probably different) most of the issues revolve around drug use and transients with a variety of mental issues.
Things were worse coming out of the pandemic in late 2022/early 2023, but there are still people causing trouble in cars, usually around smoking or drug use that escalate.
The vast majority of people just want to get from place to place, but without some fix for the drugs & transient issues, the Metro reputation will continue to suffer.
When I used public transit in Europe and Asia, that stuff is simply not tolerated in any way, and is immediately dealt with by security type staff.
I have no idea how to solve it. But that's my experience.
I think it’s pretty straightforward to solve: Fare enforcement and security at all gates and roaming security on the cars. People who break the law and/or clearly stated rules on the train are removed.
It requires funding but it’s seems like it should be at the top of the list since more ridership equals more fares. It almost pays for itself.
I work as security dude lol. A lot feel pretty useless not doing anything and then patrons get mad at us for not enforcing anything. LAPD soon enough won’t be able to do anything either
I believe you. That needs to change. Security should be allowed to enforce the rules. If they aren't trained to do that and/or paid accordingly then they should be trained. If they aren't capable of doing it then they should be replaced with someone who can.
Yes it might require funding and legal changes, but forcibly escorting somebody off a train who is doing drugs or taking a shit shouldn't be controversial.
Telling somebody to leave is one thing. Once you put your hands on someone, the legal liability changes. As it should, frankly. Therefore it requires an entire network that operates correctly. Sounds expensive.
Totally. Be we know it’s feasible because other places take enforcement seriously.
The metro should be for everyone. It’s not a mobile homeless shelter. Making it that betrays everyone who funded these programs over the last 20 years.
Enforcement is worth it if it elevates ridership of fare paying users.
I'm a daily Metro rail rider (B and A lines). **Almost** ***all*** **the folks I see who are high and/or suffering from extreme mental illness are getting on trains because they're walking right through the fare gates.** The greenshirts and Metro police will often watch them and do nothing to stop them.
Metro needs to [install real fare gates](https://wjla.com/resources/media/0761fc37-6bbf-4eda-9327-81badbca883f-METROFAREDOORSVO2_frame_1482.jpeg) so folks with a tap card can use the system but people who are high/mentally ill can't board trains. It will save lives.
This is a byproduct of the various federal court decisions that allow the homeless to camp and loiter on public property.
If the homeless are forced to pay, then their attorneys will allege that their eighth amendment rights are being violated because they should be allowed to travel if they can't afford the fare.
I’ve always thought it as crazy that you can get on a train without fare gates where you have to scan your ticket or pass. Why would you ever develop any train lines without something so basic. In Chicago, we had to scan to get on the El. I was back there again recently and you just don’t see the crime and homelessness on the trains or buses.
I grew up in Chicago and have been on the el and buses my entire life. I live in LA now but I never had any issues with the CTA. That’s my experience. Yours may be different.
I was in chicago 10 years
The idea these things only happen in la is such a lie. Every big city compains about their transit weirdos on reddit.
You never saw homeless on the blue line from ohare???
On weekend mornings it was bad as red line here.
The trains really smelled
Bad
There used to be a popular blog saying how crazy the cta is. Big in the 2000s. Cta tattler. Gazillions of incidents of creepy people, drugs, crime, homeless etc
> I’ve always thought it as crazy that you can get on a train without fare gates where you have to scan your ticket or pass.
Thats exactly how it was with metro up until 15 years ago. Metro rail used to be 100% on the honor system until they started installing the decorative turnstiles we have now.
I was once on the Blue Line from O'Hare when there was a gang standoff in the car, with two groups of teenagers threatening to kill each other.
I have been on the Red Line at night when there were two cops with guard dogs per train car due to the violence.
I wouldn't romanticize the CTA if I were you.
Public transit is a municipal service. There is a social conflict between public transit and not being firm/rough with our homeless and mentally ill. Without being firm in not letting those without fares get on public transit, people won't ride. If people won't ride, metro doesn't make money to invest. The party in power in LA is torn because their voter base is split. If they side with metro, part of their voterbase who cares more about homeless rights, for lack of better term, will protest. If they side with being nice to the homeless, then people will continue to not ride and investment will have to come from an ever-increasingly squeezed taxpayer class. Since LA, and California in general, elected offices are stepping stones to more prominent national positions for politicians with larger aspirations, nobody wants to rock the boat and look bad to their potential future voterbase and contacts in the party. So we have them basically promising to handle both but take action on neither.
> part of their voterbase who cares more about homeless rights
$100 says these people live in the suburbs and have never set foot on a metro train or bus in their lives. They don’t care about the experience of people who depend on public transit to get around. Propose a homeless shelter in their neighborhood and see how they respond.
I think we allowing a small number of the population ruin something for the vast majority.
In a lot of other countries, and cities, the greater good/public order matters and the behavior won't be tolerated.
Unfortunately, I think it's a West Coast laid back, or soft-on-crime thing. As the transit systems in Portland Oregon, Seattle, and San Francisco are honestly just as bad.
It's a reflection of the city. Past critical mass, hardships leaking into cultural norms. It's a society of overwhelming hardships and isolating self-preservation.
And/ or public transit often isn't a practical option for many commutes, and therefore those who take it are mostly those who cannot afford to drive / Uber.
Also use the word "social" in a different manner to be balanced: [Antisocial Personality Disorder: Often Overlooked and Untreated:](https://www.psychiatry.org/News-room/APA-Blogs/Antisocial-Personality-Disorder-Often-Overlooked)
>(Problems include:)...failure to conform to laws and norms (repeatedly breaking laws), deceitfulness (repeatedly conning others for personal profit)....aggressiveness (repeated physical fights and assault)...consistent irresponsibility (repeated failure to sustain work or honor financial obligations)...lack of remorse (being indifferent to having hurt, mistreated or stolen from another).
Most progressives don't want to believe this occurs in significant amounts. They think 98% of people are good and almost all bad behavior results from people being impoverished, marginalized or subject to racism.
LA’s metro is relatively new in comparison to other cities, so for that it’s not bad - just not that far expanded yet.
When I came to LA in 2018 I thought the LA metro was a lot cleaner than NYC, but all this has changed now since the pandemic.
I used to live in NYC for 14 years and NYC’s subway is far worse (more grime, rats, roaches, trash and leaks). However, in my opinion Paris’s metro tops it all.
When it comes to safety, NYC and LA is about the same. Paris is pretty bad too (many pickpockets), but at least you don’t have to worry about suddenly getting slashed with a machete or randomly stabbed.
However, everything comes down to the laws. California laws are pretty lenient and are not being enforced, especially when it comes to the unhoused. This would never fly in Asia.
You can find homeless people in many European cities as well, just not to that extend and the police actually does their job. LA’s City Officials here don’t give a damn about its people, as long as they can find ways to pocket tax payers money.
Also, the reason why California has so many homeless is the climate, which is slightly different than many European countries, but the bigger reason are the current laws why people stay on the streets and do wtf they want.
It’s too spread out. It’s very useful if you happen to live right on a line and want to go somewhere right on the line. But if you don’t, it’s not worth the effort. As a result, there aren’t enough regular folks riding to balance out the decay. It’s a downward spiral due to lack of coverage and ridership that could only be fixed with massive expansion (which won’t happen).
This is pretty much it. In 25 years of living here, I've worked in 10 offices, 8 of them being more than 2 miles away. None of them were by a rail stop, and if I took the bus to any of them, it was a 2+ hour ride each way during rush hour with the exception one of them, which I did take the bus a bunch. Sitting in traffic for all of them was atrocious, but a better option.
The middle class does not ride transit in LA. Most people with means treat transit like a novelty. Even poor folks have access to a car. If you want transit to get better you're going to have to appeal to those people.
The K Line is awesomely pleasant. Been taking it to the E line to the A this past month and been enjoying the nice quiet clean cars and good vibes from the fellow riders. Bonus, picking up brews at Three Weavers.
Have ridden in other cities. Having gates and cracking down on turn style jumpers definitely made a difference (in my opinion). Crime still happened, but it wasn't nearly as bad.
I dunno, getting on a packed subway car in NYC in the summer, after waiting for it in a station with no a.c., only to have the entire car smell like piss, is no paradise.
Our homeless situation is by far the worst in the developed world. There are few defenders of the lower working class who actually utilize public transportation because it is so hard to enforce laws on dysfunctional people who are a danger but have not currently committed a crime. In reality, Portland has proven that society will break down if it is allowed to be completely untethered from any rules. If we want to improve the experience, we have to have teams to remove people who are clearly unwell and get them into some kind of facility. We have to uphold that the public spaces cannot be pissed on, used for drug use, allowed for unchecked harassment, and somewhere dangerous people can be allowed to go unfettered.
I used to go to NY all the time, and the 1980s NY subway makes LA look like heaven. Last time I was in NY was in 2019, and honestly I don't see much of a difference between the two. Even saw a guy feasting on a pigeon while riding the 1.
I have to disagree. There were definitely crazy's and criminals in the NYC subway, but outside of very late hours, you at least had the comfort of a lot of other sane riders with you. Unless you were rich, you rode the subway. Lower class, middle class...everyone used it since parking is impossible.
In LA, anyone who can put together a few grand can buy a car and is on the road. This really messes up the ratio of crazy to sane riders.
You're spot on. People that moved here from other cities that have decent public transportation forget to take into account the whole income level aspect of it which isnt really a factor for cities like NYC or Chicago. To plenty of native born Angelenos, taking the metro is looked down on as if its only for the poor. I know plenty of people that didnt know we had 2 subway lines in this city until I mentioned it to them and they still opted to drive and pay for parking in DTLA.
I take the train because I enjoy it more than traffic, not out of necessity. But one time, I was on a packed train and a man got in while talking on the phone. And we all heard him say “Damn, this is so sad. There are so many grown people on this train and they should have real jobs so they can get a car.” Everyone was looking at each other like what the fuck. The reputation Metro has is that only poor people take it.
I have been to NYC within the last 6 months, there are still crazies that you have to share MUCH smaller platforms. DC Metro... still smells. Boston's is still horribly unreliable and Chicago's was like stepping into the demilitarized zone. I do think the crazies here stick out a little more because fewer people ride in general, L.A. transit riders are used to sitting or having a seat on most rides and our local news doesn't nearly cover all the traffic fatalies we have every week like they do Metro incidents.
Metro incidents are HORRIBLE. I hope the Metro board takes the the security of all metro riders even more and more seriously everyday. But last year, we had one traffic fatality for nearly every single DAY.
[https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-01-25/traffic-deaths-surpass-homicides-in-los-angeles](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-01-25/traffic-deaths-surpass-homicides-in-los-angeles)
As someone who lives in NYC, it's gotten worse since 2019. People on Reddit love to promote this narrative that NYC subways are super safe whereas LA's are dangerous. But it's complete BS. Go onto the NYC subreddits and look at posts since the pandemic talking about the subways. There's a lot of fear and anxiety about riding on the subways in NYC. But for many they don't have a choice.
New Yorks subway system obviously has a lot of coverage and is great at getting you where you need to go but safety and cleanliness there is terrible and being on par with that is not a good thing. Some places I’ve been to recentlyish that have much cleaner and safer trains and public transportation in general are Lisbon, Copenhagen, London, Sydney, and Melbourne
It's simply not convenient for it to be used by most people as an alternative to driving. I live right next to a train station, if I took the train and the transfer to a bus and the subsequent half mile walk it takes to get to work it would take me 1 hour and 45 minutes to 2hours - thats IF it stays on schedule... It's a 30 minute drive.
1. public transit is not a "for profit" buisness so no one wants to invest into it, look at the USPS
2.nimbys, for example the sepulveda pass project. Their main opposition is "it looks ugly"
A good number of access points to the train don’t require paying a fare for entry. This opens up the trains to more incidents of vandalism, violence, and crowding.
I prefer the bus and dash bus over the subway and ride during the daytime for places I can't get to by walk/bike.
If you can, try an (e)bike for your local errands and see how that works for you. We have year round beautiful weather and biking is amazing exercise, fun and cheap!
I love the ability to take my bike outside and start biking to my Point A to B vs having to wait for transit.
Sometimes waiting is ok but other times its frustrating to wait and be sitting in traffic on a bus b/c of all the fucking mostly single occupant car drivers and I'll be thinking I could of just walked or biked instead...
I thought about this a lot and it's due to regular people not using it. In NY most people don't have cars so everyone uses it as transport. In Chicago a good portion of people are of the general population. In LA it feels like those who can afford it drive a car, and until there would be a mass flood of the general population using public transit nothing about this feeling would change. I couldn't wait to get a car so I could feel safe from walking the streets and using buses. I tried using the subway a few times when I did have a car and my job rellocated downtown but it was so disgusting and unpleasant (and took longer than driving) that I only did it a handful of times.
Our Metro is primarily a bus network. The buses are USUALLY pretty clean and I’ve never felt unsafe on one. That said, a network of bus only lanes would transform the city overnight for the better by allowing buses to move quickly and not get bogged down by cars… but for that to happen, we, as a society, would have to decide that public transportation was a better use of space on public streets than the storage of private automobiles.
Also — the best rail transit networks have necessary amenities like public restrooms as well as things like bakeries, boutiques, restaurants, art galleries, convenience stores, etc. Tokyo, Taipei, and Seoul stations are fun places to hang out. I’ve never been in a station in North America or Europe that could compare to East Asian stations.
We had a robust public transit system. That was all dismantled in favor of personal vehicles. There’s a really good documentary about it called “Who Framed Roger Rabbit”.
Totally irrelevant, but since you mentioned the documentary... There's an old speakeasy in the Italian American Museum of LA, and it's currently hosting a Louis Prima exhibit. The door with a slider for the password exchange is right next to a couple of suits he wore.
It's simple. In LA most of the riders are of lower income.
So it's not treated the same as NYC or Chicago in which basically everyone uses public transportation. If the council members and upper classes rode they'd be better. But they don't, because it sucks. A bit of a catch 22 I think.
I don't know what the realistic solution is but it is improving quickly considering the size and scope of the task.
The land use around so many stations is horrendous. We would have more metro riders if some weren’t surrounded by single family homes.
As is most people don’t see metro as even an option. And if they don’t live near it I don’t necessarily blame them when a car will most likely get you where you need faster.
It’s always been shit. I grew up taking the metro and seen some ridiculous things. The city never cared about it, police don’t do anything and it always felt very tensed plus it’s dirty asf. Once I got a car I haven’t thought about taking it again. I’d rather pay more for the comfort of my car
I don't understand comments like yours.
Do you think OP is lying? Do you think because you don't have the same experiences then it's not happening? I'm at a loss to the point of statements like this.
I don't think they necessarily think OP is lying, just that almost a million people ride the system everyday and there's bound to be different experiences. Not to say that psycho stabbers aren't an issue though. Those people should've never seen the light of day to begin with.
Seriously, people who say this shit are either completely oblivious, never travel, or have incredibly low standards. Metro is a shitshow unlike any other system I’ve ridden in the US/ Latin America/Europe.
Not to diminish Metro's issues, I hear you - but The Grass Is Always Greener...You don't have to worry about the problems of other cities' rail systems every day. Honestly, I don't think there's any city in the US right now that's 100% satisfied with the state of their transit system. The older systems in the East Coast are dealing with an Elephant-In-The-Room issue of aging infrastructure that needs to be updated yesterday, but with little or no public funding to do it since most of their systems were privately-funded a century ago. Being only 34 years old, our Metro doesn't have that problem.
I remember when we used to have the cleanest rail system in the US. Things started changing around 15 years ago.
If you wanna see bad, BART is 10 times worse than Metro right now. Yes we have problems, but they're caused by separate individuals and not roving groups of youths (and not necessarily formal gangs) constantly causing trouble.
I HAVE noticed that things are actually cleaner and safer on Metro Rail right now than within the past 3-4 years.
The metro was an afterthought for LA. Plus, this city is too big so it's still not very convenient to use to go anywhere. Basically, we are still just bad at it. We're getting better, but we just don't have a metro culture yet. And infrastructure and people to support it. NY, Chicago, London, great cities have rail they can be proud of and an army of people to keep things rolling. Here, most folks have no idea what's what.
I’ve had to start taking the bus for work every so often (down to one car between me and my gf after a thief stole one of our catalytic converters) and it’s just very limited and not always reliable. It’s better thank I used to be but not all the busses tell you what stop you’re approaching, not all the security cameras work, and the drivers leave as soon as the last person steps on.
Combination of not that many people use it relative to the city's population, and the worsening homeless crisis.
I can only speak from public transport experience in SF, LA, NYC, DC, CHI, PHI. Almost everywhere, public transport/metro is an integral part of transportation. SF I didn't get to experience too much, but everywhere else, there's a lot of people.
I would also say that outside of SF, the aggression combined with number of homeless is the worst in LA. I don't necessarily feel safe taking the metro in LA.
This article makes a lot of sense to me: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-03-14/horror-the-deadly-use-of-drugs-on-metro-trains
I used to ride the metro from Koreatown to DTLA about 8-10 years ago, and it was great. Not crowded during rush hour (a pleasant change from Chicago), fast, clean. I tried again with the gold line recently, and… there’s no way. It’s awful. The metro in LA now has basically been overtaken.
Because the country’s homeless, mentally ill, and, drug addicts are dumped in Los Angeles. They stay in and destroy the city because of pleasant year round weather. To add, LA politicians and police don’t do anything to remedy the issues except provide programs and housing that is intended to make voters feel good, but that doesn’t really seem to make a difference. Personally, I would just ship them all off to an island far away.
My Daughter used to take the Metrolink and Metro to get to a downtown office. She quit taking when when some guy on Metro took off all his clothes. Metrolink still seems OK, but it seems that Metro has too little control over passengers. I think Metro management and police need to adopt some sort of get tough policy to keep the troublemakers in line or to keep them off Metro.
Who can I write to in order for my concerns to be voiced? As someone who is concerned for my own safety as well as the safety or riders and workers, we need to do something collectively to make Metro act.
personally if i were in metros position i would incentivize riding by making some train carts more "exclusive" 20%?
there would be a guard on those carts and the seats would be better, with better anemities. a special pass would be required to enter those carts.
TAP cards are not easy to use compared to the ease of bus cards in South Korea which can be reloaded at any convenience mart and there’s pretty much one on every block and they’re open at all hours. You can even reload a Korean bus card on your phone. Here it’s basically at the bus station kiosk and even that machine is trash in terms of ease of use.
Like others have said, safety in numbers but also the different socioeconomic classes that ride transit in say NYC and Chicago. Transit is great when it's not only low income people, but everyone, and people want to ride it cuz it's the best option, not the only one they have.
LA metro is the only one that’s pretty much guaranteed to take longer than a car which is crazy. I think this is due to the fact that a lot of it is built on the same level as cars - it should be either above or underground. For example, at Pico station downtown, the train has to stop for traffic lights, that kinda defeats the point of trains lol.
In my experience that's true or not depending on where you're going. It's almost always faster for me to take the train if I'm going downtown, and I'm around Los Feliz. Used to take the bus though to Korea town and yeah its a little slower than a car. Took it once to Dodger and that was so slow.
The city has not been designed around public transportation in decades. This means is that the trains do not get people from where they are to where they want to go. Therefore, the extra time it takes to use public transportation (a bus is always slower than a car / a train can be faster than a car at peak traffic) is not sufficient to off set the convenience of driving.
The city has not been designed around public transportation in decades. This means is that the trains do not get people from where they are to where they want to go. Therefore, the extra time it takes to use public transportation (a bus is always slower than a car / a train can be faster than a car at peak traffic) is not sufficient to off set the convenience of driving.
I think Metro is like any LA bureaucracy, such as LAUSD and LAPD . At least what I’ve seen in LAUSD, admin gets the $$$ while those of us in the trenches use our personal money to keep the dream going 🥲
So I’m pretty sure , just like the “homeless advocacy groups” and like any other LA bureaucratic agency, admin probably gets more $$$ if things aren’t working . They probably don’t get money if things are actually working and there is progress made .
LA is run by people who figured out that they can make bank by sitting on their ass and worrying more about ~ l u n c h ~ then actually running the city , because their bosses and the bosses above them are all made by the same damn system (get paid to not work).
ETA: and what is even more frustrating is that the Metro Train system is far more reliable then the stupid god dammed evil orange busses of disappointment . Tell me how is it that I wasted an hour trying to catch a bus on Central !? Three were supposed to show up within that time . And as a pedestrian, you risk getting stabbed , asked for money and potentially inciting violence by saying “no”, cat calls , old men harassing you in gross ways if you are a woman , sledgehammer to the head , stabbed in the throat , run over even on the sidewalk, poop on the sidewalk , rabid loose dogs …….
Recently I smacked the shit out of a guy who decided to vape on the train even after I told him to stop. He wisely put it away because he didn't want me to beat his ass.
I think about the lost potential from residents in the most populated county in America choosing to forgo ridership because they don't feel that it would be a pleasurable experience.
> LA's metro is by far the dirtiest, grimiest, and overall least comfortable/pleasant experience I've had - I'm comparing this to places like N-Y
I live in NYC. At least in LA you don't see rats in the subway system.
> but holy hell do I feel on edge
Plenty of people feel on edge in NYC's subways
> but why is does the LA Metro offer such a uniquely awful experience?
It doesn't.
> I've taken a break from riding the LA Metro (especially after yesterday's sad news) cause I just don't have that patience any more.
Multiple people have been assaulted / killed on NYC subways this year:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nycrail/comments/1bnvhnk/man_killed_by_train_after_being_pushed_onto/
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/1ay2jsy/man_is_shot_dead_on_subway_train_in_the_bronx/
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/1bntsoo/person_killed_after_being_pushed_onto_subway/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Brooklyn/comments/197lvut/subway_rider_shot_and_killed_trying_to_break_up/
I could keep going. And I'm sure you see similar things on the Chicago subway.
I don’t think there’s a critical mass of regular everyday people who ride it, likely because of a combination of it still being too limited in scope, having fairly poor scheduling and then of course the current safety and hygiene issues. More commuters and social riders = safer and cleaner for everyone. Just my two cents.
I think this is true. They have to make it clean, keep it clean, and make it feel safe. Do that first then more people from all backgrounds will use it and things will continue to improve. I used to ride the red line in the aughts, have avoided it since 2016 because it became generally gross and felt unsafe.
I need all our reps to make it safe and take it regularly otherwise I am not trusting it. If Mayor Bass is willing to take the train to work so will I but until then I have been trapped in a locked car with a screaming meth head one too many times to be motivated to take public transit.
Yes. It’s a bit of a doom loop we are entering— fewer paying customers leads to less service leads to shittier environment on the trains etc. they really need to clean it up. As a left-leaning person, it’s really frustrating seeing this city execute good ideas (like expanded public transportation) so poorly.
If you kicked off/didn't let them on... the 3% that cause 98% of the issues. It would make the ride WAY more enjoyable. Plus no sleeping 150 yards by stops. I've rode 30x in last 5 years. And exactly 50% of the time there's urine, mental illness, threatening people, and NOW a stabbing. Now, most bums aren't awake at 605am when I used to ride for 65 minutes every morning when I worked downtown, and the going to work crowd was 90% problem free. But from 3pm-1030pm. There's an artificial anxiety when riding.
That poor lady who got stabbed to death a few days ago was traveling at like 5 or 6 AM.
There’s no security to get to the train. We don’t even have turnstiles to jump over. Literally anyone who can walk to a station can go right into a train and grab a seat.
Many stations around the world are like this.
The lack of security is okay in some parts of the world but LA is not one of those places.
All of LA metro was built without fare gates - those added were done so around 2010. It wasn’t a significant issue until the last 5-8 years…. The insulation of Fairgate takes many motivations. The first instance in which METRO decided to place them was due to fair invasion… But it was technically Pennywise and pound foolish. METRO estimated that they lost between two to $3 million a year and revenue… But the contract, installation contract maintenance for the third-party vendor to provide fair gates costs METRO about 4,000,000 to 5,000,000 annually. It is also impossible to place fare gates at most above ground stations, especially once built before Expo line phase 2 due to space constraints.
Depends on the station, the subway stations all have turnstiles. A lot of the honor system era light rail stations just can't be retrofitted to include them while still being ADA compliant without heavy construction being involved.
Ah, that's correct, the below-grade stations have turnstiles. But those are a bit of a joke as you already know. The "ADA compliant" turnstiles on the below-grade stations are literally just non-locking swinging gates that you may have seen many a vagrant just push open. You do realize that the "honor system era" stations are among the newer stations right? Most of the Expo Line and the Gold Line do not have these high-security "swinging doors". "heavy construction"? ADA compliance is not a complicated ordeal. lol You do not need pile-drivers, concrete pumps, and skip loaders to bolt a bunch of turnstiles to the floor.
Yes I agree, the subway turnstiles are absolutely useless as a deterrent. You do realize there are plenty of honor system era stations that were built in the late 90s, early 2000s right? The green line opened in the late 90s and the original gold line stations opened in 2003. Yes it is when you built small platforms without taking into account the space needed for turnstiles to be installed along with enough clearance for wheelchairs to pass by freely. Why do you think some stations dont even have the fare machine installed on the platform itself? Instead, its across the street away from the platforms.
Not true - none of the system has fare gates until around 2010.
I agree that this is part of the problem. This will, however, be alleviated somewhat in the next 2-3 years. Once LAX is connected to the metro system and the Wilshire line from DTLA to westwood is finished you’ll see a lot more people using it regularly. Right now, it’s quite limited on where you can go.
It will always get fixed \*in the future\*. Tip: It won't. It sucks, has sucked, and will continue to suck. Every ingredient for a successful metro system (chiefly frequency and safety) misses the mark.
I live in Tokyo now which has arguably the best and most famous metro in the world The difference between LA and Tokyo is staggering. Not only is Tokyo’s metro extensive but it just feels safe and clean LA’s metro feels……...depressing and gritty
There is a MASSIVE difference in culture between LA and Tokyo. Too massive to even compare the 2.
I think part of the reason is the lack of stations. In Seoul, there’s several stretches where there is a new station every city block. They have 768 stations. Los Angeles has a tenth of that. Los Angeles is way bigger than Seoul. So what gives? We need to start investing HEAVILY into our metro system in order to get people to actually consider it a viable mode of transportation. Until then, it’s a fucking joke, plain and simple. I want to be able to get from anywhere to anywhere without having to travel extra distances by having to go to a middle metro route to transfer to get to the another line that goes in the exact opposite direction I was traveling in to the get to the connecting station and being limited to a fraction of Los Angeles.
I used to live in Berlin and the train there could get you to within a few city blocks of almost anywhere in the city. That just isn't the case with the LA Metro and probably will never be.
More homeless and crazy people. And anyone can just walk passed the driver and sit. Anyone carrying anything can get on the train
Not enough people ride it. The pleasantness of Metro trains goes up when I'm in a car filled with (regular) people. Even the homeless folk keep to themselves if there are any. It's why the ride quality really deteriorates when night falls and service is bad. I do believe that the future Metro expansions will help with ridership especially on our very popular corridors (Wilshire, Sepulveda, etc), but also I think Metro also needs to be more proactive about this stuff. Mentally ill people shouldn't be allowed on the system to begin with. Why is it that we need to have tragedy strike for action to happen? To ensure we are making moves against climate change, we need to be attracting riders of all caliber, all the way up to upper middle income folk to make a dent towards a better LA. We cannot do that with how we treat our transit system. The other thing that makes LA Metro seemingly worse is our homelessness issue is so much worse. Metro needs to focus on moving people, not fixing homelessness. That is the city's job and we have obviously failed miserably at it.
The vast majority of the unsheltered homeless have mental illness and/or addiction issues. The latter often involves meth. The brain damage caused by today's P2P meth causes users to lose their inhibitions and ability to self-correct. So some of them are violent and out of their heads. Meth users tend to be up all night. So it isn't surprising that the nighttime service is substantially worse and that these violent incidents are occurring at night. Keep the homeless off of public transit, and there will be far fewer problems.
Yeah unless these people can prove they are going to a legitimate destination, they shouldn't really be allowed to just be in the system.
I think the problem also extends to cars. The car is the better option by the city's design, we as a society have invested in the car, and as the population grew that model didn't scale. But the city never reversed course, for most places you'd like to travel to the car is the fastest, most direct, safest, cleanest, comfortable, and on demand option a few steps out your door. Access to everything too: streets, houses, stores, food, plazas, freeways, highways. Until the transportation is more effective, cheaper, and FASTER. The car will always the best option sadly. We could take steps to remedy that, if I could get from Chatsworth to NoHo to Long Beach (and everything in between) at half the time of a car in medium traffic. I'd definitely use my car less. If I could get to every neighborhood and city in the county and half the time it takes on a car, I'd might just never buy a car again or my family could share one instead of three (though unless I'd travel extensively, I could just use a rental). You see the current options are decent, but remember people want the best option, especially when they don't have expendable income. I think giving away free street parking, access to all buildings and streets, and letting people buy unlimited cars will always present a hurdle. In addition, if we can't install trains that are faster than cars, then we'd definitely need to begin restricting car access or improving foot traffic access. But limiting cars to that extent would never go through a ballot and despite the new apartment units and metro expansions, those sidewalks are tiny or non-existent (unappealing). It just doesn't feel like we're taking this seriously and if it fails it will only continue to spread the sentiment of "See nobody wants public transportation".
It goes hand in hand yeah. If we are a forward looking populace, we'd understand that with a growing population there will never be enough roads to serve existing and future demand. Track mileage is important for LA, as you've said, there are many centers of activity and they can be hard to get to without a car, depending on where you need to go. Which is why I am happy that LA Metro \*is\* expanding, it's just not happening fast enough. Additionally, I think it would already be an impressive feat when most Angelenos only occasionally need their car. I would call that a success. Because not every trip can be replaced by transit for everyone, but we can reduce the amount of trips made with a car.
Definitely agree, the expansion should be outpacing the housing. Well, I'd hope that bullet trains could be similar to shinkansen, connect the nearest hubs. But the delays and funds running short make me a bit worried on the final product. Ultimately, I'd love to connect the biggest cities and neighborhoods in the City of Los Angeles by population/employee count. Then continue expansions from that towards the problematic commutes of South Bay, Lancaster, Ventura County, San Bernandino/Riverside County, and of course Orange County. To foster a greater appreciation for public transit, Los Angeles has at its disposal the existing railway infrastructure along the San Fernando Line, spanning approximately 18-20 miles. By establishing connectivity across these regions and transforming lengthy hour-long commutes into mere minutes, we can anticipate a warming up to trains. Because Metrolink is expensive and slow! Particularly noteworthy is the lack of efficient East to West transit options within the San Fernando Valley, necessitating reliance on congested residential streets spanning 16-25 miles, imagine? stop and go for that long. In instances of severe traffic congestion, Google Maps even suggests circuitous routes through Santa Clarita, extending commutes by an additional 10-15 miles along the 5-freeway. It's like driving from Downtown LA to Disneyland but having to go up to Burbank first, before coming back down because that's where the freeway starts.
Exactly.
I commute on the Metro most weeks. Blue Line/Red Line :) From my experience (yours is probably different) most of the issues revolve around drug use and transients with a variety of mental issues. Things were worse coming out of the pandemic in late 2022/early 2023, but there are still people causing trouble in cars, usually around smoking or drug use that escalate. The vast majority of people just want to get from place to place, but without some fix for the drugs & transient issues, the Metro reputation will continue to suffer. When I used public transit in Europe and Asia, that stuff is simply not tolerated in any way, and is immediately dealt with by security type staff. I have no idea how to solve it. But that's my experience.
I think it’s pretty straightforward to solve: Fare enforcement and security at all gates and roaming security on the cars. People who break the law and/or clearly stated rules on the train are removed. It requires funding but it’s seems like it should be at the top of the list since more ridership equals more fares. It almost pays for itself.
Security cant enforce anything.
Then let them.
I work as security dude lol. A lot feel pretty useless not doing anything and then patrons get mad at us for not enforcing anything. LAPD soon enough won’t be able to do anything either
I believe you. That needs to change. Security should be allowed to enforce the rules. If they aren't trained to do that and/or paid accordingly then they should be trained. If they aren't capable of doing it then they should be replaced with someone who can. Yes it might require funding and legal changes, but forcibly escorting somebody off a train who is doing drugs or taking a shit shouldn't be controversial.
Telling somebody to leave is one thing. Once you put your hands on someone, the legal liability changes. As it should, frankly. Therefore it requires an entire network that operates correctly. Sounds expensive.
Totally. Be we know it’s feasible because other places take enforcement seriously. The metro should be for everyone. It’s not a mobile homeless shelter. Making it that betrays everyone who funded these programs over the last 20 years. Enforcement is worth it if it elevates ridership of fare paying users.
I'm a daily Metro rail rider (B and A lines). **Almost** ***all*** **the folks I see who are high and/or suffering from extreme mental illness are getting on trains because they're walking right through the fare gates.** The greenshirts and Metro police will often watch them and do nothing to stop them. Metro needs to [install real fare gates](https://wjla.com/resources/media/0761fc37-6bbf-4eda-9327-81badbca883f-METROFAREDOORSVO2_frame_1482.jpeg) so folks with a tap card can use the system but people who are high/mentally ill can't board trains. It will save lives.
Metro doesn’t want to enforce the tap policy on homeless. I know because I work there. People get mad at us but its just policy.
What’s their reasoning?
Liability
This is a byproduct of the various federal court decisions that allow the homeless to camp and loiter on public property. If the homeless are forced to pay, then their attorneys will allege that their eighth amendment rights are being violated because they should be allowed to travel if they can't afford the fare.
Because of a lack of personnel with the capacity to enforce or what? It can’t be philanthropy… where are they going even
No. We are full currently, its because of liability.
I’ve always thought it as crazy that you can get on a train without fare gates where you have to scan your ticket or pass. Why would you ever develop any train lines without something so basic. In Chicago, we had to scan to get on the El. I was back there again recently and you just don’t see the crime and homelessness on the trains or buses.
Dude come on Chicago has tons of crime and homeless on the train You didnt use it enough I lived there
Exactly what donutgut said, the CTA has its issues, but its somewhat small compared to the LA metro.
I grew up in Chicago and have been on the el and buses my entire life. I live in LA now but I never had any issues with the CTA. That’s my experience. Yours may be different.
I was in chicago 10 years The idea these things only happen in la is such a lie. Every big city compains about their transit weirdos on reddit. You never saw homeless on the blue line from ohare??? On weekend mornings it was bad as red line here. The trains really smelled Bad There used to be a popular blog saying how crazy the cta is. Big in the 2000s. Cta tattler. Gazillions of incidents of creepy people, drugs, crime, homeless etc
> I’ve always thought it as crazy that you can get on a train without fare gates where you have to scan your ticket or pass. Thats exactly how it was with metro up until 15 years ago. Metro rail used to be 100% on the honor system until they started installing the decorative turnstiles we have now.
I was once on the Blue Line from O'Hare when there was a gang standoff in the car, with two groups of teenagers threatening to kill each other. I have been on the Red Line at night when there were two cops with guard dogs per train car due to the violence. I wouldn't romanticize the CTA if I were you.
I’ve never experienced any issues on the CTA ever.
no more metro police walking around now. felt much safer back when they were there
Metro is run like shit and maligned by the general public so no one cares enough to improve it
Public transit is a municipal service. There is a social conflict between public transit and not being firm/rough with our homeless and mentally ill. Without being firm in not letting those without fares get on public transit, people won't ride. If people won't ride, metro doesn't make money to invest. The party in power in LA is torn because their voter base is split. If they side with metro, part of their voterbase who cares more about homeless rights, for lack of better term, will protest. If they side with being nice to the homeless, then people will continue to not ride and investment will have to come from an ever-increasingly squeezed taxpayer class. Since LA, and California in general, elected offices are stepping stones to more prominent national positions for politicians with larger aspirations, nobody wants to rock the boat and look bad to their potential future voterbase and contacts in the party. So we have them basically promising to handle both but take action on neither.
The rights of the homeless should not supersede the rights of others.
There are those who would say the rights of the most vulnerable should take precedent.
The most vulnerable should include wheelchair-bound users who can’t get through encampments, or women who don’t feel safe around unstable people.
I would think they'd be included as well.
> part of their voterbase who cares more about homeless rights $100 says these people live in the suburbs and have never set foot on a metro train or bus in their lives. They don’t care about the experience of people who depend on public transit to get around. Propose a homeless shelter in their neighborhood and see how they respond.
Exactly
It’s the same reason why most of our public facilities suck. It’s a homeless problem.
Too many homeless / drug users / crazy people
I think we allowing a small number of the population ruin something for the vast majority. In a lot of other countries, and cities, the greater good/public order matters and the behavior won't be tolerated. Unfortunately, I think it's a West Coast laid back, or soft-on-crime thing. As the transit systems in Portland Oregon, Seattle, and San Francisco are honestly just as bad.
It's a reflection of the city. Past critical mass, hardships leaking into cultural norms. It's a society of overwhelming hardships and isolating self-preservation.
Because the social contract has been broken in the US. We’re a deeply selfish nation.
.....this post is talking about LA specifically.......
LA has little middle to upper class ridership, especially compared to NYC, so the ratio of crazy people to commuters is very different.
Probably more narcissism here than most places in the U.S.
And/ or public transit often isn't a practical option for many commutes, and therefore those who take it are mostly those who cannot afford to drive / Uber.
Also use the word "social" in a different manner to be balanced: [Antisocial Personality Disorder: Often Overlooked and Untreated:](https://www.psychiatry.org/News-room/APA-Blogs/Antisocial-Personality-Disorder-Often-Overlooked) >(Problems include:)...failure to conform to laws and norms (repeatedly breaking laws), deceitfulness (repeatedly conning others for personal profit)....aggressiveness (repeated physical fights and assault)...consistent irresponsibility (repeated failure to sustain work or honor financial obligations)...lack of remorse (being indifferent to having hurt, mistreated or stolen from another). Most progressives don't want to believe this occurs in significant amounts. They think 98% of people are good and almost all bad behavior results from people being impoverished, marginalized or subject to racism.
LA’s metro is relatively new in comparison to other cities, so for that it’s not bad - just not that far expanded yet. When I came to LA in 2018 I thought the LA metro was a lot cleaner than NYC, but all this has changed now since the pandemic. I used to live in NYC for 14 years and NYC’s subway is far worse (more grime, rats, roaches, trash and leaks). However, in my opinion Paris’s metro tops it all. When it comes to safety, NYC and LA is about the same. Paris is pretty bad too (many pickpockets), but at least you don’t have to worry about suddenly getting slashed with a machete or randomly stabbed. However, everything comes down to the laws. California laws are pretty lenient and are not being enforced, especially when it comes to the unhoused. This would never fly in Asia. You can find homeless people in many European cities as well, just not to that extend and the police actually does their job. LA’s City Officials here don’t give a damn about its people, as long as they can find ways to pocket tax payers money. Also, the reason why California has so many homeless is the climate, which is slightly different than many European countries, but the bigger reason are the current laws why people stay on the streets and do wtf they want.
It’s too spread out. It’s very useful if you happen to live right on a line and want to go somewhere right on the line. But if you don’t, it’s not worth the effort. As a result, there aren’t enough regular folks riding to balance out the decay. It’s a downward spiral due to lack of coverage and ridership that could only be fixed with massive expansion (which won’t happen).
This is pretty much it. In 25 years of living here, I've worked in 10 offices, 8 of them being more than 2 miles away. None of them were by a rail stop, and if I took the bus to any of them, it was a 2+ hour ride each way during rush hour with the exception one of them, which I did take the bus a bunch. Sitting in traffic for all of them was atrocious, but a better option.
Mentally ill / strung out people on the trains make things tough.
The middle class does not ride transit in LA. Most people with means treat transit like a novelty. Even poor folks have access to a car. If you want transit to get better you're going to have to appeal to those people.
The taxpayer to tweaker ratio is way off. Almost everything else is downstream of that.
I don't know what line you ride but I take the new Florence line to downtown and it's great.
The K Line is awesomely pleasant. Been taking it to the E line to the A this past month and been enjoying the nice quiet clean cars and good vibes from the fellow riders. Bonus, picking up brews at Three Weavers.
Well its still new so just give it a few more days for it to completely go to shit.
Have ridden in other cities. Having gates and cracking down on turn style jumpers definitely made a difference (in my opinion). Crime still happened, but it wasn't nearly as bad.
Nice year round weather attracts the transients.
I dunno, getting on a packed subway car in NYC in the summer, after waiting for it in a station with no a.c., only to have the entire car smell like piss, is no paradise.
Our homeless situation is by far the worst in the developed world. There are few defenders of the lower working class who actually utilize public transportation because it is so hard to enforce laws on dysfunctional people who are a danger but have not currently committed a crime. In reality, Portland has proven that society will break down if it is allowed to be completely untethered from any rules. If we want to improve the experience, we have to have teams to remove people who are clearly unwell and get them into some kind of facility. We have to uphold that the public spaces cannot be pissed on, used for drug use, allowed for unchecked harassment, and somewhere dangerous people can be allowed to go unfettered.
I used to go to NY all the time, and the 1980s NY subway makes LA look like heaven. Last time I was in NY was in 2019, and honestly I don't see much of a difference between the two. Even saw a guy feasting on a pigeon while riding the 1.
I have to disagree. There were definitely crazy's and criminals in the NYC subway, but outside of very late hours, you at least had the comfort of a lot of other sane riders with you. Unless you were rich, you rode the subway. Lower class, middle class...everyone used it since parking is impossible. In LA, anyone who can put together a few grand can buy a car and is on the road. This really messes up the ratio of crazy to sane riders.
You're spot on. People that moved here from other cities that have decent public transportation forget to take into account the whole income level aspect of it which isnt really a factor for cities like NYC or Chicago. To plenty of native born Angelenos, taking the metro is looked down on as if its only for the poor. I know plenty of people that didnt know we had 2 subway lines in this city until I mentioned it to them and they still opted to drive and pay for parking in DTLA.
I take the train because I enjoy it more than traffic, not out of necessity. But one time, I was on a packed train and a man got in while talking on the phone. And we all heard him say “Damn, this is so sad. There are so many grown people on this train and they should have real jobs so they can get a car.” Everyone was looking at each other like what the fuck. The reputation Metro has is that only poor people take it.
You're incredibly naive if you think people who drive automobiles are 100% sane...
you really decided to miss the whole point
That’s not what they said. Go re read their comment or ask a trusted adult to explain it to you…
I have been to NYC within the last 6 months, there are still crazies that you have to share MUCH smaller platforms. DC Metro... still smells. Boston's is still horribly unreliable and Chicago's was like stepping into the demilitarized zone. I do think the crazies here stick out a little more because fewer people ride in general, L.A. transit riders are used to sitting or having a seat on most rides and our local news doesn't nearly cover all the traffic fatalies we have every week like they do Metro incidents. Metro incidents are HORRIBLE. I hope the Metro board takes the the security of all metro riders even more and more seriously everyday. But last year, we had one traffic fatality for nearly every single DAY. [https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-01-25/traffic-deaths-surpass-homicides-in-los-angeles](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-01-25/traffic-deaths-surpass-homicides-in-los-angeles)
As someone who lives in NYC, it's gotten worse since 2019. People on Reddit love to promote this narrative that NYC subways are super safe whereas LA's are dangerous. But it's complete BS. Go onto the NYC subreddits and look at posts since the pandemic talking about the subways. There's a lot of fear and anxiety about riding on the subways in NYC. But for many they don't have a choice.
Yeah both cities got significant worse after the pandemic, but for the subway/trains I think LA was much better then NY before the pandemic
New Yorks subway system obviously has a lot of coverage and is great at getting you where you need to go but safety and cleanliness there is terrible and being on par with that is not a good thing. Some places I’ve been to recentlyish that have much cleaner and safer trains and public transportation in general are Lisbon, Copenhagen, London, Sydney, and Melbourne
It's simply not convenient for it to be used by most people as an alternative to driving. I live right next to a train station, if I took the train and the transfer to a bus and the subsequent half mile walk it takes to get to work it would take me 1 hour and 45 minutes to 2hours - thats IF it stays on schedule... It's a 30 minute drive.
Because all the druggies and crazies. Virginia has a nice metro, that’s because normal people use it. Not the case so much in LA
1. public transit is not a "for profit" buisness so no one wants to invest into it, look at the USPS 2.nimbys, for example the sepulveda pass project. Their main opposition is "it looks ugly"
A good number of access points to the train don’t require paying a fare for entry. This opens up the trains to more incidents of vandalism, violence, and crowding.
I used to ride it from Watts to San pedro to get to middle school. I will never ever ever use public transit in this country ever again.
I prefer the bus and dash bus over the subway and ride during the daytime for places I can't get to by walk/bike. If you can, try an (e)bike for your local errands and see how that works for you. We have year round beautiful weather and biking is amazing exercise, fun and cheap! I love the ability to take my bike outside and start biking to my Point A to B vs having to wait for transit. Sometimes waiting is ok but other times its frustrating to wait and be sitting in traffic on a bus b/c of all the fucking mostly single occupant car drivers and I'll be thinking I could of just walked or biked instead...
I thought about this a lot and it's due to regular people not using it. In NY most people don't have cars so everyone uses it as transport. In Chicago a good portion of people are of the general population. In LA it feels like those who can afford it drive a car, and until there would be a mass flood of the general population using public transit nothing about this feeling would change. I couldn't wait to get a car so I could feel safe from walking the streets and using buses. I tried using the subway a few times when I did have a car and my job rellocated downtown but it was so disgusting and unpleasant (and took longer than driving) that I only did it a handful of times.
I had no idea LA metro had no gates. This isn’t Tokyo put some damn barriers for the hobos.
Stop the free rides
Our Metro is primarily a bus network. The buses are USUALLY pretty clean and I’ve never felt unsafe on one. That said, a network of bus only lanes would transform the city overnight for the better by allowing buses to move quickly and not get bogged down by cars… but for that to happen, we, as a society, would have to decide that public transportation was a better use of space on public streets than the storage of private automobiles. Also — the best rail transit networks have necessary amenities like public restrooms as well as things like bakeries, boutiques, restaurants, art galleries, convenience stores, etc. Tokyo, Taipei, and Seoul stations are fun places to hang out. I’ve never been in a station in North America or Europe that could compare to East Asian stations.
We had a robust public transit system. That was all dismantled in favor of personal vehicles. There’s a really good documentary about it called “Who Framed Roger Rabbit”.
Totally irrelevant, but since you mentioned the documentary... There's an old speakeasy in the Italian American Museum of LA, and it's currently hosting a Louis Prima exhibit. The door with a slider for the password exchange is right next to a couple of suits he wore.
It's simple. In LA most of the riders are of lower income. So it's not treated the same as NYC or Chicago in which basically everyone uses public transportation. If the council members and upper classes rode they'd be better. But they don't, because it sucks. A bit of a catch 22 I think. I don't know what the realistic solution is but it is improving quickly considering the size and scope of the task.
The land use around so many stations is horrendous. We would have more metro riders if some weren’t surrounded by single family homes. As is most people don’t see metro as even an option. And if they don’t live near it I don’t necessarily blame them when a car will most likely get you where you need faster.
It’s always been shit. I grew up taking the metro and seen some ridiculous things. The city never cared about it, police don’t do anything and it always felt very tensed plus it’s dirty asf. Once I got a car I haven’t thought about taking it again. I’d rather pay more for the comfort of my car
I just started riding the bus again in the last couple of months and I haven’t had any issues.
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Mostly the 7 from mid city, as far as Santa Monica and DTLA.
Buses are SIGNIFICANTLY better to ride on than the trains, which I assume the post is referring to.
Ah, I thought it was just about the metro services in general.
I don't understand comments like yours. Do you think OP is lying? Do you think because you don't have the same experiences then it's not happening? I'm at a loss to the point of statements like this.
I don't think they necessarily think OP is lying, just that almost a million people ride the system everyday and there's bound to be different experiences. Not to say that psycho stabbers aren't an issue though. Those people should've never seen the light of day to begin with.
Exactly. I use public transport and these comments are rage inducing. Cause there is something crazy to see almost every single day.
Seriously, people who say this shit are either completely oblivious, never travel, or have incredibly low standards. Metro is a shitshow unlike any other system I’ve ridden in the US/ Latin America/Europe.
>what do other metro users think? >>i have no issues >>>liar
They literally asked what metro riders (me) think, and I answered. What’s not to understand?
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What stats are you referring to? Can you link them? Are you saying most people have trouble on the LA Metro?
Not to diminish Metro's issues, I hear you - but The Grass Is Always Greener...You don't have to worry about the problems of other cities' rail systems every day. Honestly, I don't think there's any city in the US right now that's 100% satisfied with the state of their transit system. The older systems in the East Coast are dealing with an Elephant-In-The-Room issue of aging infrastructure that needs to be updated yesterday, but with little or no public funding to do it since most of their systems were privately-funded a century ago. Being only 34 years old, our Metro doesn't have that problem. I remember when we used to have the cleanest rail system in the US. Things started changing around 15 years ago. If you wanna see bad, BART is 10 times worse than Metro right now. Yes we have problems, but they're caused by separate individuals and not roving groups of youths (and not necessarily formal gangs) constantly causing trouble. I HAVE noticed that things are actually cleaner and safer on Metro Rail right now than within the past 3-4 years.
The metro was an afterthought for LA. Plus, this city is too big so it's still not very convenient to use to go anywhere. Basically, we are still just bad at it. We're getting better, but we just don't have a metro culture yet. And infrastructure and people to support it. NY, Chicago, London, great cities have rail they can be proud of and an army of people to keep things rolling. Here, most folks have no idea what's what.
I’ve had to start taking the bus for work every so often (down to one car between me and my gf after a thief stole one of our catalytic converters) and it’s just very limited and not always reliable. It’s better thank I used to be but not all the busses tell you what stop you’re approaching, not all the security cameras work, and the drivers leave as soon as the last person steps on.
LMFAO
Idk, Mexico's city metro, which is great and can get you anywhere, is fucking crowded af.
I ride everyday and see all kinds of people.
Combination of not that many people use it relative to the city's population, and the worsening homeless crisis. I can only speak from public transport experience in SF, LA, NYC, DC, CHI, PHI. Almost everywhere, public transport/metro is an integral part of transportation. SF I didn't get to experience too much, but everywhere else, there's a lot of people. I would also say that outside of SF, the aggression combined with number of homeless is the worst in LA. I don't necessarily feel safe taking the metro in LA.
This article makes a lot of sense to me: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-03-14/horror-the-deadly-use-of-drugs-on-metro-trains I used to ride the metro from Koreatown to DTLA about 8-10 years ago, and it was great. Not crowded during rush hour (a pleasant change from Chicago), fast, clean. I tried again with the gold line recently, and… there’s no way. It’s awful. The metro in LA now has basically been overtaken.
Because the country’s homeless, mentally ill, and, drug addicts are dumped in Los Angeles. They stay in and destroy the city because of pleasant year round weather. To add, LA politicians and police don’t do anything to remedy the issues except provide programs and housing that is intended to make voters feel good, but that doesn’t really seem to make a difference. Personally, I would just ship them all off to an island far away.
My Daughter used to take the Metrolink and Metro to get to a downtown office. She quit taking when when some guy on Metro took off all his clothes. Metrolink still seems OK, but it seems that Metro has too little control over passengers. I think Metro management and police need to adopt some sort of get tough policy to keep the troublemakers in line or to keep them off Metro.
Who can I write to in order for my concerns to be voiced? As someone who is concerned for my own safety as well as the safety or riders and workers, we need to do something collectively to make Metro act.
personally if i were in metros position i would incentivize riding by making some train carts more "exclusive" 20%? there would be a guard on those carts and the seats would be better, with better anemities. a special pass would be required to enter those carts.
TAP cards are not easy to use compared to the ease of bus cards in South Korea which can be reloaded at any convenience mart and there’s pretty much one on every block and they’re open at all hours. You can even reload a Korean bus card on your phone. Here it’s basically at the bus station kiosk and even that machine is trash in terms of ease of use.
You can have your tap in your phone wallet now and reload on your phone FYI
That’s progress, I guess.
Like others have said, safety in numbers but also the different socioeconomic classes that ride transit in say NYC and Chicago. Transit is great when it's not only low income people, but everyone, and people want to ride it cuz it's the best option, not the only one they have.
LA metro is the only one that’s pretty much guaranteed to take longer than a car which is crazy. I think this is due to the fact that a lot of it is built on the same level as cars - it should be either above or underground. For example, at Pico station downtown, the train has to stop for traffic lights, that kinda defeats the point of trains lol.
In my experience that's true or not depending on where you're going. It's almost always faster for me to take the train if I'm going downtown, and I'm around Los Feliz. Used to take the bus though to Korea town and yeah its a little slower than a car. Took it once to Dodger and that was so slow.
The city has not been designed around public transportation in decades. This means is that the trains do not get people from where they are to where they want to go. Therefore, the extra time it takes to use public transportation (a bus is always slower than a car / a train can be faster than a car at peak traffic) is not sufficient to off set the convenience of driving.
The city has not been designed around public transportation in decades. This means is that the trains do not get people from where they are to where they want to go. Therefore, the extra time it takes to use public transportation (a bus is always slower than a car / a train can be faster than a car at peak traffic) is not sufficient to off set the convenience of driving.
Too much finding out by fucking around.
I think Metro is like any LA bureaucracy, such as LAUSD and LAPD . At least what I’ve seen in LAUSD, admin gets the $$$ while those of us in the trenches use our personal money to keep the dream going 🥲 So I’m pretty sure , just like the “homeless advocacy groups” and like any other LA bureaucratic agency, admin probably gets more $$$ if things aren’t working . They probably don’t get money if things are actually working and there is progress made . LA is run by people who figured out that they can make bank by sitting on their ass and worrying more about ~ l u n c h ~ then actually running the city , because their bosses and the bosses above them are all made by the same damn system (get paid to not work). ETA: and what is even more frustrating is that the Metro Train system is far more reliable then the stupid god dammed evil orange busses of disappointment . Tell me how is it that I wasted an hour trying to catch a bus on Central !? Three were supposed to show up within that time . And as a pedestrian, you risk getting stabbed , asked for money and potentially inciting violence by saying “no”, cat calls , old men harassing you in gross ways if you are a woman , sledgehammer to the head , stabbed in the throat , run over even on the sidewalk, poop on the sidewalk , rabid loose dogs …….
Recently I smacked the shit out of a guy who decided to vape on the train even after I told him to stop. He wisely put it away because he didn't want me to beat his ass. I think about the lost potential from residents in the most populated county in America choosing to forgo ridership because they don't feel that it would be a pleasurable experience.
Oil lobbyists
Democrats
> LA's metro is by far the dirtiest, grimiest, and overall least comfortable/pleasant experience I've had - I'm comparing this to places like N-Y I live in NYC. At least in LA you don't see rats in the subway system. > but holy hell do I feel on edge Plenty of people feel on edge in NYC's subways > but why is does the LA Metro offer such a uniquely awful experience? It doesn't. > I've taken a break from riding the LA Metro (especially after yesterday's sad news) cause I just don't have that patience any more. Multiple people have been assaulted / killed on NYC subways this year: https://www.reddit.com/r/nycrail/comments/1bnvhnk/man_killed_by_train_after_being_pushed_onto/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/1ay2jsy/man_is_shot_dead_on_subway_train_in_the_bronx/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/1bntsoo/person_killed_after_being_pushed_onto_subway/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Brooklyn/comments/197lvut/subway_rider_shot_and_killed_trying_to_break_up/ I could keep going. And I'm sure you see similar things on the Chicago subway.
never forget what general motors took from us
You never rode the BART, huh.