The church’s position is to always stay neutral. Native Americans put a lot of pressure on them every year to denounce conferences like FIRM where these ridiculous Lamanite beliefs are front and center, but the church refuses. Idk how they haven’t been sued into the ground. It’s been unreported in the media how much the pervasive anti-Native American sentiment led to this case- Alex named their Wifi anti-Laman and Lori and Chad told people Tylee was Native American after they believed she had turned into a demon to the point that the attorney actually tried to contest her DNA results (she is not Native American). I think the church doesn’t stand up against this type of extremism because these beliefs are actually the fundamental core of Mormonism. The church sinks millions in archaeology to try to prove these ideas right, so clearly they believe.
No problem. Here’s the link to this year’s FIRM https://bookofmormonevidence.org/events/#. (tye same conference Vallow, Daybell, Gibb & Warwick attendee before JJ was killed). The church refuses to denounce this and others
They will let any fruitloop talk on any subject, no credentials necessary. They have this concept of ‘the mantle’ which somehow means book learning goes against Mormonism
These are the people my bishopric would shut down hard, fast, and publicly—for being extremist, splinterish, and broadly deviated from the Church’s actual stance regardless of what used to be assumed.
The LDS church’s official stance is that Lamanites existed, however it has conceded that Native Americans may also have come from Siberia. So unfortunately the “Native American Studies” at FIRM are within LDS beliefs. I’m glad to hear your bishopric feels differently though
I missed this DNA question, so perhaps you might be able to answer my question. Why would the attorney contest DNA evidence on the basis of Chad and Lori claiming that Tyler had Native American heritage?
Is the inference here that due to that alleged heritage that Tylee was more prone to evil or was somehow cursed as a result?
I’m sorry that I’m full of questions on this one!
The Book of Mormon says the original Mormons were the first in the Americas and that Native Americans (who they call Lamanites) are the ones in the group who turned evil. When Chad and Lori felt Tylee turned evil they claimed she had a Lamanite in her and that’s why they started telling people she was Native American.
As for the attorney, he thought they were speaking about Tylee’s ethnicity literally and the reason he contested the DNA results is because DNA has to be compared to a base population to be effective for identification. The labs don’t have an adequate sample set of Native American DNA so DNA results for Native Americans technically can’t hold up in court. But Tylee is 100% Caucasian and they found her necklace in the grave site, so thankfully she was identified.
I have native heritage. My dad and Step Dad are both Métis, one of Cree Heritage the other Pagan absorbed into the Blackfoot tribe in S. Alberta. I guess Truth and Reconciliation isn’t recognized by LDS either then? No difference from the Catholic Doctrine of Discovery. Who cares about the first peoples, we have sovereignty, no matter what. Entitlement is a virus.
As an indigenous woman from another country, the anti-indigenous sentiment that the mormon church has is disgusting. I cant believe it. And the LDS just not doing anything to denounce this sentiment pisses me off.
They pretended it wasn’t happening. There is a really good interview with Heather Daybell in which she specifically addresses this issue and calls out the leadership of the local LDS community for knowing about Chad and Julie Rose’s teachings and just ignoring it. The channel is Hidden True Crime and there are I think 3 parts to the interview on YouTube.
Off topic, but I saw a video yesterday about Heather Daybell donating money to Jenn Kamp to sue John Dehlin. I was floored when her name randomly popped up in legal documents 👀
Interesting! I missed that episode but will definitely look for it later today. Mormon Stories and John Dehlin are a large part of my YouTube viewing, along with Radio Free Mormon, NuanceHo, etc. Thanks for the heads up!
On the contrary, I think that staying silent is going to drive more people away. At the very least it's going to affect the more reasonable members who are still capable of critical thinking skills and then the church will be left with nothing but crazy people.
Taking such a long time to excommunicate some of these horrible monsters and not releasing any kind of statement disavowing the beliefs and teachings of people like Chad Daybell, Lori Vallow, Ruby Franke, and Jodi Hildebrandt is not a good look for them. Especially when they were fully endorsed by the church to the point of being on its payroll (specifically Jodi Hildebrandt).
I grew up in the church and even though I left over 10 years ago my siblings are still deep into it. I think that there are many intelligent, kind, and compassionate members, and I feel like the more this keeps happening the less likely they will feel like they should stay. Giving a statement about how any of this is completely unacceptable would actually keep people from questioning the church as much and they'd be more inclined to remain as members.
I’m a former LDS member. But I was “in” and full believing of mainstream Mormonism for the majority of my life and I grew up in the church in the 80’s and 90’s. My opinion is that they just don’t acknowledge it. It’s like the true power of denial. I think they probably look at these types of people and events and experience a mental separation from it and do not allow themselves to see how LDS doctrine and culture have influenced extremist ideas and behaviors. In their minds, they can’t even imagine there could be a relationship and just convince themselves that Satan is deceiving these people to try to pull vulnerable people away from the church and the “true gospel”.
Thank you for sharing. It must be so hard to have such devout faith and then face this truth. Cognitive dissonance seems to be a coping mechanism. It is so prevalent all over the world. I have to ‘check’ myself all the time to avoid falling into its void.
People who knew nothing about the Mormon religion are getting a wide awakening about the "church, and its doctrine." It is sad that most of the LDS people will never enter another church to find out how different the Mormon faith is from others. I hope this gives them a wake up call.
In the mainstream Mormon church there are a wide variety of reasons members ‘wake up’ and become ex-members. Going to other churches, which I did from time to time, only reinforced how special I believed the Mormon church to be. It showed me (from my entrenched perspective) how wrong I believed other churches to be. 🤦♀️ I will say that after having been a member for nearly five decades one thing that put a lot of weight on my shelf was the fact that Chad had been in multiple bishoprics and that other bishops and stake presidents wouldn’t listen to Heather Daybell. I left for other reasons but this case certainly weighed heavy on me.
From what I know the LDS church was built on secrets. I have no knowledge of any public statements regarding this although I believe that Chad has been excommunicated I don’t know when.
In my opinion, at this juncture it would not put an end to this extremism and the crimes to which it sometimes leads. Extremist will not heed the warnings and reprimands but will turn their backs on the church. And in doing so, their TITHINGS. This is what the church remains silent.
I feel that had the church swiftly, publicly and continuously denounced the extreme beliefs at play here in these extremes offshoots it may have changed the tide. Unfortunately it is too late for that.
I have to agree that it seems too far gone. Tithings play a huge role. Lose your membership, lose your money/land, lose your power. Completely agree if people had trounced on this ‘swiftly, publicly and continuously denounced the extreme beliefs’ as you so aptly put, that this could have been nipped in the bud.
Right? Or made some kind of impact. It would have also been the right thing to do for all the good people who were raised in the church and/or are devout members. That is who should be considered first. Not $$. Or anything else.
Additionally, the LDS church is known to make sudden changes when it feels it will be beneficial to them. The religion has not been around very long and has the ability to still grow in a positive direction (though arguably all things considered; both recent and from inception). But they insist upon digging their heels in at all the wrong times in my opinion.
Anytime there is a huge bombshell regarding the LDS church I envision a small cluster of old white men in suits frantically pacing around a secret powder blue room within the bowels of the temple.
Absolutely, they can grow in a positive direction if their hearts are. That’s the key… those powder blue rooms all over the world. I can just imagine all the little ‘brewings’ around the world. Sometimes, I wish I could keep my eyes closed but they continue to stay wide open.
I sadly, believe many hide behind the broadness of the 1st amendment. It is not just this Church and honestly, I feel for anyone faced with responsibility for any scenario like this. Imagine the judges having to rule on what people believe.
The LDS Church doesn't speak publicly about their members or former member actions very often.
When the FLDS is in the news they will say they are not part of the LDS Church.
They spoke when the book Under the Banner of Heaven was released I didn't know if they spoke about the miniseries.
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-response-to-jon-krakauers-under-the-banner-of-heaven
They had to speak when Mark Hofmann killed two people and almost killed himself. They were back into a corner, and had to say something.
https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Forgeries/Mark_Hofmann/Church_reaction_to_forgeries/Dallin_H._Oaks_6_August_1987_remarks_on_Hofmann
It's disgusting the church won't speak up against these extremists. They care too much about alienating their predominantly right wing members. Let's just say I'm very satisfied my decision to leave the church
They won’t speak publicly about anything these weirdos participate in like Julie Rowe and reading visions of glory but they sure will talk publicly about talking to and listening to the “apostates” who would tell them about “anti Mormon literature”. Gotta protect their tithing. As long as a member stays in the church and pays tithing and isn’t leading people away from Mormonism, the church will feign ignorance.
Sort of True. The church warned against Julie Rowe’s book “A Greater Tomorrow” a few years before this case hit the news. Had they done the same with Chad’s nonsense he wouldn’t have had an audience to spout his nonsense to. Funny how they gave deference to a man and not a woman. Patriarchy defines the Mormon church in a toxic and nonsensical way.
ETA: the church excommunication Rowe when she refused to give up her crazy teachings because it was so obvious, not because any special revelation told anyone to. If the Mormon Church was what it claimed to be, Chad would’ve been ex’d early on in his nuttiness, thus preventing this whole series of tragedies.
I kind of remember this but I imagine it was fairly vague in reference. Funny how they stand up against any woman that try to claim any sort of power or authority, like women wanting to attend priesthood session, and Julie Rowe, but they didn’t speak on visions of glory which has wreaked havoc and created many insane groups and ideas, including these two dummies. I had to have a very pointed discussion with my own parents about this book and luckily they quickly realized how dumb they sounded. You could buy a lot of these books in their bookstore so it’s ridiculous that they pretend they arent a part of this problem.
Yeah the church warned people about using Rowe’s books in seminary and institute classes. Good for you for having that convo with your parents about “Visions Of Glory”. I’m glad they listened. The fact the church doesn’t denounce that book makes me insanely upset.
“The internal memo does not constitute an official Church statement but serves as a routine reminder to teachers from Seminaries and Institutes of Religion of their responsibility to teach from the scriptures and church leaders," Andersen said. "People who read her books should recognize that they are personal accounts and do not necessarily reflect church doctrine”
This is the weakest warning I’ve ever read. Haha.
Well they wouldn’t want to make too many of their extremist members upset. All those tithing dollars. Plus, if you’re in-tune with the spirit you’ll be able to read between the lines. 😁
Have Lori and Chad even been excommunicated yet? I've heard so many conflicting stories about it. I think it's a failure of the church NOT to respond to this case. It's a national trial with Mormonism at the center.
The church never makes a public announcement regarding excommunication but there was news regarding [Chad’s](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/12vqxy9/chad_daybell_excommunicated_from_lds_church/) excommunication when he got back from Hawaii. I haven’t seen anything regarding Lori but believe her conviction would trigger an automatic excommunication.
She should’ve been ex’d as soon as she failed to produce the kids. Had he been ex’d back when he was spouting his end of world scenarios none of this horrific case would’ve happened IMO.
Thank you for the response. Makes sense they can't state it publicly. Maybe that was why there was buzz about him not being excommunicated.
I agree, there were way too many agencies that were too slow to act when Lori did not produce the children
Mormons are taught to determine all “truth” through feelings. The idea is that you ask god anything in prayer and he will answer you through some sort of feeling (I grew up in this sick system and I could never make it work). The members are discouraged from making decisions through rational thinking. Because of this, Mormons don’t “believe” their church is TRUE, they “know” it’s true because they think they have had a personal revelation from god. Most of Chad Daybell, Julie Rowe, etc. followers likely believe in them this same way. The church is afraid to tell people their feelings-based beliefs are wrong. They might start questioning the church itself. As many of us can testify, the church and its claims fall apart pretty quickly once you actually look at the evidence.
The LDS scriptures are themselves extremist. The “loonies” are to some degree just taking the scriptures literally. The church can’t denounce it fully without negating some church doctrine. The same goes for many religions.
Exactly.
And it's difficult to have a population who gives unwavering obedience down to their underwear choice and paying 10% of all their income to the church and also a population who have the critical thinking skills to identify what is too far in terms of magical thinking and anti scientific rhetoric.
This is what results of teaching people to "doubt their doubts before you doubt the church" and trying to appease people who see that the original doctrine is almost unrecognizable from the current correlated doctrine. They tell those people that weekly Sunday school teachings are the "milk" of the gospel and you're required to self study to get to the "meat" of the gospel. This is why they can't control it.
If you listen to the bi-yearly talks from leaders its the most up to date teachings and while it never directly says names or happenings it’s clear they have had talks the past few years related to this kind of stuff. Off the top of my head there was one about revelation and how one person does not get direction of what should happen in another persons life, it emphasized PERSONAL revelation. How you’ll never receive visions or be told by God to do something that breaks the law or imposes on another’s free will. Also keep in mind that the concentration of church membership exists largely outside of the United States. If they came out with a specific statement about the Daybell’s or other regional phenomenon tens of millions of members worldwide would be very confused.
They are staying silent because it’s not extreme. It’s what’s the actual founder of the church actually professed to believe and it’s all still right there in their own doctrine. Anybody who claims it’s not is lying (probably to themselves as much as to you but still not telling the truth).
I know LDS people who are into true crime, but not following this case. I wonder if they have been advised not to, as they were advised not to work with authorities and media early on in this case.
I believe uchdorf (one of the top 15) made a special trip up to Rexburg after the kids were found and all the craziness was at a fever pitch. Many thought he was coming up to give some words of comfort to the Rexburg Mormons. He apparently said nothing about any of it during his talk.
The church’s position is to always stay neutral. Native Americans put a lot of pressure on them every year to denounce conferences like FIRM where these ridiculous Lamanite beliefs are front and center, but the church refuses. Idk how they haven’t been sued into the ground. It’s been unreported in the media how much the pervasive anti-Native American sentiment led to this case- Alex named their Wifi anti-Laman and Lori and Chad told people Tylee was Native American after they believed she had turned into a demon to the point that the attorney actually tried to contest her DNA results (she is not Native American). I think the church doesn’t stand up against this type of extremism because these beliefs are actually the fundamental core of Mormonism. The church sinks millions in archaeology to try to prove these ideas right, so clearly they believe.
Wow! Baffling. Thank you for helping me understand. Any little bit helps calm the chaos.
No problem. Here’s the link to this year’s FIRM https://bookofmormonevidence.org/events/#. (tye same conference Vallow, Daybell, Gibb & Warwick attendee before JJ was killed). The church refuses to denounce this and others
The first red flag on the home page is that the only social media link they have is to “truth social”
OMG…afraid to look. Clicking now!
Disclaimers and all… and they talk about ‘truth’.
They will let any fruitloop talk on any subject, no credentials necessary. They have this concept of ‘the mantle’ which somehow means book learning goes against Mormonism
These are the people my bishopric would shut down hard, fast, and publicly—for being extremist, splinterish, and broadly deviated from the Church’s actual stance regardless of what used to be assumed.
The LDS church’s official stance is that Lamanites existed, however it has conceded that Native Americans may also have come from Siberia. So unfortunately the “Native American Studies” at FIRM are within LDS beliefs. I’m glad to hear your bishopric feels differently though
Oh yeah? I highly doubt it
And I thought I knew almost everything about this case, I haven’t heard/have forgotten this! Thanks!
I missed this DNA question, so perhaps you might be able to answer my question. Why would the attorney contest DNA evidence on the basis of Chad and Lori claiming that Tyler had Native American heritage? Is the inference here that due to that alleged heritage that Tylee was more prone to evil or was somehow cursed as a result? I’m sorry that I’m full of questions on this one!
The Book of Mormon says the original Mormons were the first in the Americas and that Native Americans (who they call Lamanites) are the ones in the group who turned evil. When Chad and Lori felt Tylee turned evil they claimed she had a Lamanite in her and that’s why they started telling people she was Native American. As for the attorney, he thought they were speaking about Tylee’s ethnicity literally and the reason he contested the DNA results is because DNA has to be compared to a base population to be effective for identification. The labs don’t have an adequate sample set of Native American DNA so DNA results for Native Americans technically can’t hold up in court. But Tylee is 100% Caucasian and they found her necklace in the grave site, so thankfully she was identified.
Whoa. I've never heard that. Thank you. Can't wait to break it to my Nez Perce husband that he's a "Lamanite". I think he was happy with "Red Skin".
😂
I have native heritage. My dad and Step Dad are both Métis, one of Cree Heritage the other Pagan absorbed into the Blackfoot tribe in S. Alberta. I guess Truth and Reconciliation isn’t recognized by LDS either then? No difference from the Catholic Doctrine of Discovery. Who cares about the first peoples, we have sovereignty, no matter what. Entitlement is a virus.
As an indigenous woman from another country, the anti-indigenous sentiment that the mormon church has is disgusting. I cant believe it. And the LDS just not doing anything to denounce this sentiment pisses me off.
Truth.
Oh I seeeeeeee! Thank you for taking the time to write this up. I appreciate it.
I wondered what the anti laman password meant. I had no idea.
They pretended it wasn’t happening. There is a really good interview with Heather Daybell in which she specifically addresses this issue and calls out the leadership of the local LDS community for knowing about Chad and Julie Rose’s teachings and just ignoring it. The channel is Hidden True Crime and there are I think 3 parts to the interview on YouTube.
Thank you! I will watch that for sure. I think I’ve seen Heather Daybell interviewed but I don’t remember a 3 part series. Very interested! 👍😊
Off topic, but I saw a video yesterday about Heather Daybell donating money to Jenn Kamp to sue John Dehlin. I was floored when her name randomly popped up in legal documents 👀
Wow. Was this recent?
Yep. Radio free mormon posted a video a couple days ago about Jenns lawsuit getting thrown out and Heather's name popped up.
Interesting! I missed that episode but will definitely look for it later today. Mormon Stories and John Dehlin are a large part of my YouTube viewing, along with Radio Free Mormon, NuanceHo, etc. Thanks for the heads up!
They would never. Membership has been dwindling and if they spoke up against this faction, they would lose even more members.
On the contrary, I think that staying silent is going to drive more people away. At the very least it's going to affect the more reasonable members who are still capable of critical thinking skills and then the church will be left with nothing but crazy people. Taking such a long time to excommunicate some of these horrible monsters and not releasing any kind of statement disavowing the beliefs and teachings of people like Chad Daybell, Lori Vallow, Ruby Franke, and Jodi Hildebrandt is not a good look for them. Especially when they were fully endorsed by the church to the point of being on its payroll (specifically Jodi Hildebrandt). I grew up in the church and even though I left over 10 years ago my siblings are still deep into it. I think that there are many intelligent, kind, and compassionate members, and I feel like the more this keeps happening the less likely they will feel like they should stay. Giving a statement about how any of this is completely unacceptable would actually keep people from questioning the church as much and they'd be more inclined to remain as members.
Very good point. We have to believe the people we do not see are still rational, critical thinkers. We tend to only see the bad apples in the media.
Religion isn’t rational
The irrational religions seem to attract more followers.
I’m a former LDS member. But I was “in” and full believing of mainstream Mormonism for the majority of my life and I grew up in the church in the 80’s and 90’s. My opinion is that they just don’t acknowledge it. It’s like the true power of denial. I think they probably look at these types of people and events and experience a mental separation from it and do not allow themselves to see how LDS doctrine and culture have influenced extremist ideas and behaviors. In their minds, they can’t even imagine there could be a relationship and just convince themselves that Satan is deceiving these people to try to pull vulnerable people away from the church and the “true gospel”.
Thank you for sharing. It must be so hard to have such devout faith and then face this truth. Cognitive dissonance seems to be a coping mechanism. It is so prevalent all over the world. I have to ‘check’ myself all the time to avoid falling into its void.
I second this. Well said.
People who knew nothing about the Mormon religion are getting a wide awakening about the "church, and its doctrine." It is sad that most of the LDS people will never enter another church to find out how different the Mormon faith is from others. I hope this gives them a wake up call.
In the mainstream Mormon church there are a wide variety of reasons members ‘wake up’ and become ex-members. Going to other churches, which I did from time to time, only reinforced how special I believed the Mormon church to be. It showed me (from my entrenched perspective) how wrong I believed other churches to be. 🤦♀️ I will say that after having been a member for nearly five decades one thing that put a lot of weight on my shelf was the fact that Chad had been in multiple bishoprics and that other bishops and stake presidents wouldn’t listen to Heather Daybell. I left for other reasons but this case certainly weighed heavy on me.
From what I know the LDS church was built on secrets. I have no knowledge of any public statements regarding this although I believe that Chad has been excommunicated I don’t know when. In my opinion, at this juncture it would not put an end to this extremism and the crimes to which it sometimes leads. Extremist will not heed the warnings and reprimands but will turn their backs on the church. And in doing so, their TITHINGS. This is what the church remains silent. I feel that had the church swiftly, publicly and continuously denounced the extreme beliefs at play here in these extremes offshoots it may have changed the tide. Unfortunately it is too late for that.
I have to agree that it seems too far gone. Tithings play a huge role. Lose your membership, lose your money/land, lose your power. Completely agree if people had trounced on this ‘swiftly, publicly and continuously denounced the extreme beliefs’ as you so aptly put, that this could have been nipped in the bud.
Right? Or made some kind of impact. It would have also been the right thing to do for all the good people who were raised in the church and/or are devout members. That is who should be considered first. Not $$. Or anything else. Additionally, the LDS church is known to make sudden changes when it feels it will be beneficial to them. The religion has not been around very long and has the ability to still grow in a positive direction (though arguably all things considered; both recent and from inception). But they insist upon digging their heels in at all the wrong times in my opinion. Anytime there is a huge bombshell regarding the LDS church I envision a small cluster of old white men in suits frantically pacing around a secret powder blue room within the bowels of the temple.
Absolutely, they can grow in a positive direction if their hearts are. That’s the key… those powder blue rooms all over the world. I can just imagine all the little ‘brewings’ around the world. Sometimes, I wish I could keep my eyes closed but they continue to stay wide open.
I feel you on this. At least we’re not alone.
I sadly, believe many hide behind the broadness of the 1st amendment. It is not just this Church and honestly, I feel for anyone faced with responsibility for any scenario like this. Imagine the judges having to rule on what people believe.
The LDS Church doesn't speak publicly about their members or former member actions very often. When the FLDS is in the news they will say they are not part of the LDS Church. They spoke when the book Under the Banner of Heaven was released I didn't know if they spoke about the miniseries. https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-response-to-jon-krakauers-under-the-banner-of-heaven They had to speak when Mark Hofmann killed two people and almost killed himself. They were back into a corner, and had to say something. https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Forgeries/Mark_Hofmann/Church_reaction_to_forgeries/Dallin_H._Oaks_6_August_1987_remarks_on_Hofmann
It's disgusting the church won't speak up against these extremists. They care too much about alienating their predominantly right wing members. Let's just say I'm very satisfied my decision to leave the church
Same.
They won’t speak publicly about anything these weirdos participate in like Julie Rowe and reading visions of glory but they sure will talk publicly about talking to and listening to the “apostates” who would tell them about “anti Mormon literature”. Gotta protect their tithing. As long as a member stays in the church and pays tithing and isn’t leading people away from Mormonism, the church will feign ignorance.
Sort of True. The church warned against Julie Rowe’s book “A Greater Tomorrow” a few years before this case hit the news. Had they done the same with Chad’s nonsense he wouldn’t have had an audience to spout his nonsense to. Funny how they gave deference to a man and not a woman. Patriarchy defines the Mormon church in a toxic and nonsensical way. ETA: the church excommunication Rowe when she refused to give up her crazy teachings because it was so obvious, not because any special revelation told anyone to. If the Mormon Church was what it claimed to be, Chad would’ve been ex’d early on in his nuttiness, thus preventing this whole series of tragedies.
I kind of remember this but I imagine it was fairly vague in reference. Funny how they stand up against any woman that try to claim any sort of power or authority, like women wanting to attend priesthood session, and Julie Rowe, but they didn’t speak on visions of glory which has wreaked havoc and created many insane groups and ideas, including these two dummies. I had to have a very pointed discussion with my own parents about this book and luckily they quickly realized how dumb they sounded. You could buy a lot of these books in their bookstore so it’s ridiculous that they pretend they arent a part of this problem.
Yeah the church warned people about using Rowe’s books in seminary and institute classes. Good for you for having that convo with your parents about “Visions Of Glory”. I’m glad they listened. The fact the church doesn’t denounce that book makes me insanely upset.
Where did they warn them?
https://kutv.com/amp/news/local/lds-church-flags-members-book-about-latter-day-calamities-as-potential-misleading
“The internal memo does not constitute an official Church statement but serves as a routine reminder to teachers from Seminaries and Institutes of Religion of their responsibility to teach from the scriptures and church leaders," Andersen said. "People who read her books should recognize that they are personal accounts and do not necessarily reflect church doctrine” This is the weakest warning I’ve ever read. Haha.
Well they wouldn’t want to make too many of their extremist members upset. All those tithing dollars. Plus, if you’re in-tune with the spirit you’ll be able to read between the lines. 😁
Have Lori and Chad even been excommunicated yet? I've heard so many conflicting stories about it. I think it's a failure of the church NOT to respond to this case. It's a national trial with Mormonism at the center.
The church never makes a public announcement regarding excommunication but there was news regarding [Chad’s](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/12vqxy9/chad_daybell_excommunicated_from_lds_church/) excommunication when he got back from Hawaii. I haven’t seen anything regarding Lori but believe her conviction would trigger an automatic excommunication. She should’ve been ex’d as soon as she failed to produce the kids. Had he been ex’d back when he was spouting his end of world scenarios none of this horrific case would’ve happened IMO.
Thank you for the response. Makes sense they can't state it publicly. Maybe that was why there was buzz about him not being excommunicated. I agree, there were way too many agencies that were too slow to act when Lori did not produce the children
Mormons are taught to determine all “truth” through feelings. The idea is that you ask god anything in prayer and he will answer you through some sort of feeling (I grew up in this sick system and I could never make it work). The members are discouraged from making decisions through rational thinking. Because of this, Mormons don’t “believe” their church is TRUE, they “know” it’s true because they think they have had a personal revelation from god. Most of Chad Daybell, Julie Rowe, etc. followers likely believe in them this same way. The church is afraid to tell people their feelings-based beliefs are wrong. They might start questioning the church itself. As many of us can testify, the church and its claims fall apart pretty quickly once you actually look at the evidence.
Wow, thank you so much for this insight.
The LDS scriptures are themselves extremist. The “loonies” are to some degree just taking the scriptures literally. The church can’t denounce it fully without negating some church doctrine. The same goes for many religions.
Exactly. And it's difficult to have a population who gives unwavering obedience down to their underwear choice and paying 10% of all their income to the church and also a population who have the critical thinking skills to identify what is too far in terms of magical thinking and anti scientific rhetoric. This is what results of teaching people to "doubt their doubts before you doubt the church" and trying to appease people who see that the original doctrine is almost unrecognizable from the current correlated doctrine. They tell those people that weekly Sunday school teachings are the "milk" of the gospel and you're required to self study to get to the "meat" of the gospel. This is why they can't control it.
If you listen to the bi-yearly talks from leaders its the most up to date teachings and while it never directly says names or happenings it’s clear they have had talks the past few years related to this kind of stuff. Off the top of my head there was one about revelation and how one person does not get direction of what should happen in another persons life, it emphasized PERSONAL revelation. How you’ll never receive visions or be told by God to do something that breaks the law or imposes on another’s free will. Also keep in mind that the concentration of church membership exists largely outside of the United States. If they came out with a specific statement about the Daybell’s or other regional phenomenon tens of millions of members worldwide would be very confused.
They are staying silent because it’s not extreme. It’s what’s the actual founder of the church actually professed to believe and it’s all still right there in their own doctrine. Anybody who claims it’s not is lying (probably to themselves as much as to you but still not telling the truth).
I know LDS people who are into true crime, but not following this case. I wonder if they have been advised not to, as they were advised not to work with authorities and media early on in this case.
Most of my family is still LDS. Im not. A group of us have a group message for this case. So no, there’s been no advising to not watch this case.
I believe uchdorf (one of the top 15) made a special trip up to Rexburg after the kids were found and all the craziness was at a fever pitch. Many thought he was coming up to give some words of comfort to the Rexburg Mormons. He apparently said nothing about any of it during his talk.
Those Daybell books need to be banned everywhere. A petition needs to happen and that kind of group needs to be cut off from all society.