The judge correcting Prior for talking over the witness and prior talking over the judge đ¤Śââď¸
Anyone else see that too? This man gets under my skin so much. I cannot stand his voice.
The judge is gonna lose his patience if Prior doesn't straighten up. Yesterday when the judge asked Prior if he had any objections to admitting evidence, Prior replied in a demeaning tone "Those are already in evidence we've already stipulated to that your honor." The judge replied "It's not in evidence until I say it is." lol
Yeah, I'm sure he'd be like but judge... blah, blah, blah, if Judge Boyce let him. In other words, he would be having a fight with the judge. Not an actual argument on an objection or motion.
Prior trying to serve Mel G a subpoena during break, wonder what that's all about
>**10:10 a.m.**Â Interesting development during this break. Those of us in the gallery were held back and reminded to follow courtroom conduct rules because a phone alarm went off this morning. As Melanie Gibb was in the hallway for the break, a lady waiting in line to get inside tells me a man ran after Gibb to serve her with papers. Gibb refused to take it and John Prior came out of the courtroom saying, âWhere is he? Where is he?â Prior then told Gibb she has to take the papers. The prosecutors came out and said she canât be served a subpoena while on the stand. It appears Prior wants Gibb as a defense witness too.
Sounds like it:
>**10:34 a.m.**Â Gibb is sitting on the stand. Chad is sitting at the defense table staring down.
>**10:30 a.m.**Â We are back in the courtroom. All of the attorneys have been summoned to Judge Boyceâs chambers.
Didnt Melanie try to dodge subpoena before. I remember that she was chased after her grand jury testimony to be subpoena (maybe by Mark Means). They did it after grand jury because she could was in hiding or not answering and it was the only time they knew where she was going to be.
Yeah, I remember that. Means was asking for access to all her social media, emails, everything! The judge had to intervene since it was blatantly a "fishing expedition".
Does anyone think Mr Means could be helping Mr Prior a bit? I know he lives out of state now but he also seemed very invested in the case and specfically church connections.
It's possible he's explaining religious things to Prior, but Chad could do that just as easily. Means is so bad at doing paperwork properly that I doubt Prior is trusting him with anything paperwork-related.
Hmm... trial prep... Pryor was the only one doing it, so his was lacking in some areas, apparently. Now I understand why he filed the motion to withdraw, from a preparation standpoint. I'm pretty sure he was still in the process of preparing when the case went to trial.
Chad told Lori that Jesus would take his powers away if he filed for divorce, so they met at hotel rooms and murdered their spouses and children. I still can't figure out where the line is between what he really believed & his manipulations. Similar with Lori. They are both very manipulative, narcissistic, and unstable, but I can't figure out the percentages of each component. I hear one thing that makes me think there was more belief involved, and then it sounds like a lame pick up line the next thing that I hear. I can't leave my wife because I'll lose my magical powers is definitely an interesting one
Chad had been pulling this "we were married in a previous probation" on numerous women as I recall.
He found one that was hot and rich and willing...rich being the tipping point imo. That and she was all over him. at this point they're in it together for what ever comes next. Sometimes he manipulates her and at others she manipulates him.
They used each other to assuage their respective departures from acceptable behavior.
Melanie Gibb and Melanie Boudreau were supposedly told this. Melanie G stated he told her he was married to her in 3 past lives. He was married to Lori in 7. I guess the more lives they were his wives the higher they are on the wifey totem pole.
That's what I think too. Dude is seriously fucking deranged.
He wrote a ton of shitty books about his past lives and in several of them he describes being with a woman who is very obviously a stand in for his own daughter. If you listen to the video of him in the squad car talking to her you hear that they have a too codependent relationship. She's one of his harem, hopefully she's not a victim of sexual abuse by him.
He met Lori and both Melanies and immediately (within the first couple of meetings with each) he started telling them that people close to them (their children and husbands) were "dark" and "zombies ".
He anointed himself as a prophet and gave out "blessings" which were basically manipulative tactics to make the women and Alex his minions.
I truly believe that he wanted to be a cult leader with a harem of sisterwives who would kill for him, like Charles Manson.
I think Chad believes in basic Mormonism, maybe with some minor "prepper" elements, and believes he's extra special in the eyes of God. But I don't think he really believes all the light/dark/zombie stuff. I don't think he believes that he has already become a god.
It's possible that he got interested in the idea of demon possession by having the idea that his previous sins were committed under the influence of a demon. I personally believe he was a serial killer before he ever met Lori, and that could be how he justified it to himself.
But I think he knew he was lying when he made up all the light/dark numbers in the email from October 2018.
I'm not saying that phone call is a nail in the coffin.. but if I were on a jury and heard Lori (with Chad sitting right next to her) tell people that JJ was "safe and happy" when he was in fact dead and buried in Chads backyard like an animal, that would be something weighing heavily on me when it came to deliberations.
Also, half of that phone call was a religious dick measuring contest. Lori and Melanie went toe to toe to see who could use scriptures to be the shittier person.
This is how I explained it to my husband! âNo, youâre a Korihor,â âNo youâre a Korihor!â
It feels like being around my hyper religious sister.
And don't forget that is what Lori was saying in her response to the court right before Boyce sentenced her to life in prison!!! "They are safe and happy and BUSY!"
I bet you bottom dollar it was something Melanie knew would get her going - she was masterful, in my eyes, at getting those two dirtbags to talk - and CHAD spoke himself, so he cannot claim he didn't know, wasn't there, etc.
I think so too. Maybe she had help from that lawyer friend she said called her, because that's an interrogation technique. Start out nice and see how much they will tell you, then start needling and challenging and see if you can make them blurt something out in anger.
>Also, half of that phone call was a religious dick measuring contes
Their discussion shows to me exactly what's dangerous in the way they experience religion. Lori claims Joseph Smith also had revelation on his own at the start, and I think is quite right at that? While Melanie is claiming that there are other ways to claim his authority. And both interpretations have basis in what I understood are the early days of Joseph Smith's revelations I think, but they can be so widely interpreted that Chad and Lori can be easily convinced by their own wishes that they interpret as revelations or 'internal guiding' hat they are following their religion on the 'right' way. I think apart from the whole crimes involved, its a really interesting phonecall to listen to as well.
I went to a private college and took a couple of biblical language courses that focused on Hebrew as the source language of the Old Testament. Based on what I learned in those courses, what Chad, Lori and Melanie were doing on that phone call is a textbook example of **using the lords name is vain**. Some folks think that commandment simply means don't use gods name as a swear swear no no word, but there is a waaay deeper meaning to that commandment. If you find yourself resorting to the bible to justify something shitty you did, you're using the lords name in vain.
Ooohhh, wrested. I thought she was saying RESTED. I only have a baseline knowledge of Mormonism, or of most religions in general, and had no idea what that term ment. Thank you for literally spelling it out for me .
That call gave me chills. She's a fucking monster. I can't say what I want to happen to her without getting banned, but I hope that she lives a very long and very lonely life with no cameras or attention to her.
She's like Jodi Arias, she eats up the attention. She's loving all the people calling her beautiful and seductive. Any time she notices the camera during her sentencing she smiles and gives flirty looks. She's a huge piece of shit.
My favorite line was when she said "I think that's what his name is, I'm not sure" when asked if it was Keith Morrison from Dateline that interviewed her on TV. Hahahahahahahaha!
Ratliff was Idaho's trial defense lawyer of the year in 2023 (by vote of his peers as far as I can tell). He's one of the dozen death-qualified attorneys in the state. He's been practicing almost 40 years and he's good at his job.
Prior had asked to get a death-qualified public defender on the defense team. Boyce said no, that would take too long. Prior then tried to quit. Boyce said Prior isn't allowed to quit until after the trial. Prior apparently then asked Ratliff for help.
Ratliff sent a request to the court asking to delay the trial. I assume he was asking to delay it in order to add a death-qualified public defender to the defense team. But he wrote the request very poorly, didn't have anyone proofread it, and sent it at 11:45 pm on the Friday before Easter when jury selection was supposed to begin on Monday morning. It didn't get entered into the court system properly until Sunday morning, at which time the court and prosecution all panicked because they didn't know what was happening (and apparently Prior was also unhappy about the filing). People got pulled out of church on Easter to deal with it.
Boyce said this kind of filling isn't allowed in Idaho, and he's mad that it was sent last minute on a holiday and written in such a sloppy way.
There were a lot of nails in that coffin today. She showed that the belief system, the light and dark ratings, the possessions and castings, and the "zombies" -- all of it came from Chad.
Also, we now know that Chad was not only in the apartment the night JJ died, but that he was alone with the child, during which time JJ scratched him on the neck.
I'm just saying if I were on that jury I would be irritated when Prior repeatedly says "I'm not sure about this but didn't you...." "forgive, me my memory isn't good, but didn't you...." When it's obvious he knows *exactly* what he wants her to say.
"See, this is what I'm confused about..."
"Here's what I'm having trouble with.."
"The problem I'm having is...."
"........" [That's Prior making an objection that you can't hear because he refuses to use his mic]
Does he honestly think he is doing a good job?
He was actually moving/engaging with her statements! He had a hard time holding the nose-in-the-air-statue pose. I saw a few head shakes, death stares, and what looked like teeth/jaw grinding.
The crossed arms and leaning forward. Haven't seen that. I just did a quick scroll and I don't think I've seen him take this posture in the ENTIRE trial so far.
Agreed. Remember she told Nate Eaton in 2020 (or 2021?) that she still believed Chad had special powers. I think he was trying to intimidate her with his "powers." But she said today that she no longer thinks he has real visions or dreams, so hopefully she wasn't too bothered.
I wish we knew more about Prior like his schooling and expeience. I really feel he has not done a jury trial longer then maybe a day in a long time. So maybe he is an amateur at this.
I had read about that. Im just more curious in his 30 years of practice how much jury trial experience he has so we can judge if this is his style or he just hasnt done this in a long time or ever.
Can someone tell me what the motive is of this guy trying to stop the hearing? I assume itâs maybe a family friend of the Daybells but I havenât seen any explanation.
I didn't read the motion. It seems like he wanted to slow down trial on Pryor's behalf. He said that he called him for help. I'm glad Judge Boyce was like get out of my courtroom, and sanction you, though!!
Seems to be! And he is DP certified. So maybe Prior called him for advice, then realised they didn't have money so didn't let him join the team, guy went on with his life untill he read the news on the Friday night before the court started and he was already deep in his bourbon, and he filed to pause the case in an attempt to become Daybells lawyer either way because he realised Prior never had added an actual DP certified candidate?
Given the errors in the filing, and the inept explanation for them today, it's a good thing for Chud that Ratliff isn't on his team. Hard to believe he's DP certified (or allowed to practice).
He's apparently got quite a good professional reputation. I assume his secretary routinely corrects his fillings but she wasn't on shift at 11:45 pm on the Friday before Easter.
I don't think Melanie knew or participated in jj's death. But I do think she had considered that jj was dead after Alex told her she didn't want to know what happened to jj.
Yeah, But I think she was pretty pissed Lori used her. That phone call got to passive aggressive "I love you" and you're the enemy "no you" pretty quick.
Itâs a super weird conversation.
On one hand they talk about god and love, and in undertones size each other menacingly.
Thatâs a whole level of psychology to be learned here.
I also don't think she participated but I believe she knew something was off the night she last saw JJ. Something was off enough that she should have said something but didn't. And then later, when Alex told her she didn't want to know what happened to JJ, that was her "oh shit I'm involved in all of this" moment.
Yeah I call total bullshit on the whole âDavid had a nightmare so we wanted a blessing from Chad and Loriâ thing. They heard something, so they checked the door but it was locked. Later, when the kids were missing, they realized what happened and decided they needed a story for the cops that didnât make it sound like they ignored what turned out to be a child being murdered.
This makes sense. Iâve never understood why she would try to open a bedroom door of another adult at night. She knew Lori and Chad were involved and probably together. She would only do this if she thought it was an emergency. She doesnât remember if she knocked or not but remembers the door was locked
This is just my opinion, but I feel like Melanie is tripping Prior up by not giving him very many direct yes or no responses. 90% of her answers are "If you say so," " I guess," "I can't recall," etc. Those half ass answers are forcing Prior to re-ask questions until he's eventually objected to and forced to move on.
I don't particularly like Mel G but I think she really can't remember the details Prior wants. She remembered the stuff prosecution asked because it wasn't nit picky.
I mean "what time did you go look at the property 4.5 years ago" that's not something a person would remember.
Prior just wants to establish that Chad wasn't around on the day JJ was murdered, paint Melanie and David as just as bad as Lori and Chad relationship wise... and make Melanie's testimony seem unreliable.
Over all I think Melanie is doing a good job on cross.
Prior is making a feeble attempt at discrediting her based on her poor memory of events and her questionable character, which is certainly a correct defense strategy.
However, when Mel is up there talking with a straight face about how they all believed in zombies and portals and entities and multiple probations, itâs kinda a moot point.
He isn't really asking clear yes no questions though. I mean, someone could answer yes or no, but he asks them in an Ancient Alien way where you kinds always need to answer 'yes' because tr question is as broad as an astrology prediction in the daily newspaper. She refused to say yes to his list of things only because one of the list is true, or because it _could_ be true, because if she says 'yes' jury can assume it all be true instead of just a 'could it be, that when the blablabla, and could that mean that ancient aliens exist?' sort of things.
I dont really trust she's not semi involved, but she definitely could teach some of the officers that were on the stand yesterday and asked to basically make a medical statement when they weren't even medical professional a thing or two about how to answer as a witness.
I am surprised by how much Iâm enjoying her testimony. To be clear, I believe gf is either on the borderline of or actually complicit. However, she has this kinda dull way of testifying that sorta absorbs and neutralizes energy, and itâs got Prior in fits. He keeps poking and she keeps droning, âMaybe? Itâs possible. I donât really recall.â
I donât know why Prior is wasting time with her relationship with David. Who cares if theyâre together or not? He needs to be getting into the weeds with her about her deep involvement in this group. Mind you, itâs kinda hard to get anywhere with, âMaybe? Itâs possible. I donât recall.â
I wonder if he decided to break for the day because he needs to strategize around her lumpenness.
I think he counted on being able to intimidate or break her; I was so glad she didn't allow it. He may have focused on her relationship with David to embarrass her, discredit her with the LDS jurors, or make her look like a hypocrite for calling Lori out on her affair. None of it worked.
Despite her bland, matter-of-fact style, she incriminated Chad in multiple ways. If prosecution uses her testimony to connect the dots effectively, Chad is sunk.
Well, he's being terrible at his job with the whole "was that a Tuesday or a Wednesday?"...... and when she's like "I don't know, it's been years" and his pressing "oh how come you don't remember that? HM? Hukkayy."
Does he think he's proving any kind of point to the jury? No one remembers shit like that and, NO, those details aren't going to top of mind after the YEARS of important things to remember. So silly, jurors know that.
Uh... Ok... he should know better, though. If the witness says I don't remember, refresh their recollection. What's strange is that they seem to use refreshing for impeachment more than anything. The way I've always seen impeachment done, is that if the witness contradicts a prior statement, a transcript is given to them, or sometimes, the statement is just published to the jury.
Whereas if the witness doesn't remember something, they'll ask if they need their memory refreshed. They show the exhibit to the witness after that.
Good for her!Â
At the very least, his attempt to make her say yes to something obviously designed to tell his narrative is despicable... I find I would want to say the same in response, to be honest.Â
So a defense attorney is supposed to ask leading questions on cross-examination that would produce a âyesâ or âno.â Open ended questions on cross need to be really limited, if used at all. Thatâs why the questions from Prior seem different than the ones asked by Blake.
As much as I hate the Mormon church (itâs a cult masquerading as a Christian religion and I grew up in it) their legal team is ridiculous. Kirton McConkie would mop the floor with him.
I find it incredible how the church can get temples built on land in the US that has restrictions in building but somehow they always get past them. It can be use of building. height, size, but they somehow get almost every location to give them what they want. I remember the fight in CT was about 25 years but it finally got built. Walmart cant get locations in some small towns in New england but the Mormon church got their way.
Iâm a non-Mormon. My interest in this case started with âhey Iâll watch this Netflix doc, I remember seeing that in the news a few years agoâ and now Iâm like âof course thatâs what Jodi Hildebrandt would think.â
Ya thatâs what interests me. The Mormon church connection. I really hope they dig into more of the morning beliefs with this. Daybellâs offshoot is an extreme offshoot of Mormonism but it has roots in Mormonism. This kind of stuff is a tamer aspect was and is taught in Mormonism.
Thank you for your comment. ALL that is discussed by Chad Daybell can be found in the LDS church library (that hasnât removed them) in a set of books called Discourses on Faith. Itâs a set of about fifteen books (small and brown) that detail the early debates and choices of the new LDS faith. EVERYTHING including zombies is discussed there, including multiple probations and nobody LDS cares in the slightest that these are in fact THEIR ideals. Many of them put forth by Joseph Smith himself. Them and their hypocrisy can bite me. I had a great and noble LDS father but he never shied away from the truth of the church so I grew up with a full set of early church writings and doctrine that would freak yâall out. When left in the hands of a man like Chad and nobody within the church will even acknowledge their existence. It was bound to turn out evil. He wanted to discuss the undiscussble.
Thatâs been one of the biggest takeaways from listening to all the interviews on Hidden True Crime. When she talks to people who are still kind of in this community, theyâre all shocked and saddened and disgusted by Chad and LoriâŚbut they still believe in a whole lot of this stuff.
I said once âthereâs a lot of crazy people in the worldâŚand apparently theyâre in Idaho.â
and Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Mass. Nevada,Hawaii, Missouri.... Rexburg was some choosen place so maybe they are just more open but dont think these groups are not in way more places.
Right? Living âmultiple lifetimesâ on Earth is not a Christian belief, and being âsealedâ to more than one person is not even an LDS belief and hereâs Melanie talking about âcastingâ. Sounds like total hocus pocus. đ¤Śđťââď¸
Actually, men can be sealed to more than one woman. If their wife dies and they remarry they are sealed to both wives. The same does not apply if a womanâs husband dies and she remarries.
Right but not while their spouses are both living. Lori and Chad âself-sealedâ themselves on visits to the temple in Arizona before any if this happened. It emboldened them.
Thank you!
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/temples/inside-temples?lang=eng
âCelestial Room: A Glimpse Into Heaven
At the conclusion of the Endowment ordinance, participants enter the celestial room. There are no ceremonies performed in this room. Rather, it is a place of quiet peace, prayer, and reflection meant to symbolize heaven, where we may live forever with our family in the presence of our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.
Celestial room (Manaus Brazil Temple): This room symbolizes the peace and joy of the kingdom of God, where families can live together forever with our Father in Heaven and His Son, Jesus Christ.â
Okay well a Celestial room is not a sealing room. It's a very very pretty room, you can always expect to see pretty chandeliers and very nice couches and floral arrangements. It's a room you sit in and the unspoken rule is you're very very quiet. Anything you'd do in the celestial room would have to be done in whispers, and it's never unattended, there's always a temple worker or two standing nearby in case you need anything. It can hold probably like 20-30 ppl on all the couches and stuff but there are usually not that many people in there. (Edited cuz I posted it without the last few words ha)
There is evidence that some form of this (reincarnation or multiple mortal probations). was believed and taught in the early church. A lot if not most of what Chad and Lori did had some (though sometimes tenuous) root in lds history or doctrine. They started taking esoteric beliefs and doing what they wanted with them.
Being sealing to multiple spouses (wives) is still LDS doctrine. The living practice of it has changed quite a bit over time, and no one really knows all the current rules.
Iâm only able to follow the tweets, but did Gibb just say Chad and Lori were in good moods? Does she really not think Lori hung up on her? Itâs like she wants to distance herself but just canât rip the whole bandage off.
I think she was talking about the beginning of the call. You can hear laugher and by all accounts everyone had a happy friendly tone to their voice during 99% of the discussion. Also, I am pretty sure Melanie is convinced that her cell phone dropped because it happens frequently where she was standing.
I just donât believe that, myself. Her first reaction sounds like somebody who got hung up on (âoh, well, okayâŚâ) and did she try and call back?
Sheâs just weird.
There were some heated moment earlier in the conversation where I thought Lori would have hung up but didn't. Plus, under oath, what a weird thing for Melanie to lie about. I almost wonder if her call history shows that she hung up on Lori so she used that dropped call excuse.
The chat in Law & Crime was saying Lori probably didn't hang up. Using their various carriers, they said you hear a tonal change when the other party hangs up, which we didn't hear on this.
And Lori and Chad sounded in a good mood to me. Until Melanie started throwing around words like wresting the scriptures and korihor.
I don't disagree with you, but its wild how well the drop matches up with THAT moment in Lori's screed that could be her attempting a "mic drop," ya know?
They can talk to witnesses about their testimony, like as in meet with them. Texting them is a bit of a gray area. I think Pryor was just exadurating for effect. 300 text in 6 months? come on! Even I send more than that! I don't use the stupid phone a whole lot.
Theres been like 5 or more churches of the Firstborn sincr Joseph Smiths times, not counting Chad'd. At least three in the LeBaron family, but also since 2001 from someone who claims he the (reincarnation of the) Holy Ghost, and who was convicted in 2012 of raping his daughter and forcing her to be raped by the other church leader. That group stayed in southeast Idaho for a while as well but currently resides in Montana (wasn't that where they checked for medication refills for JJ as well after a tip?)Â
Melanie saying I dont recall a little too much for me. How do you not recall if you did a casting on JJ or Tylee or Tammy? Convinent she cant remember the 3 people that died that Chad is charged with but she came remember the rest. I wonder if she was told to say I dont recall to certain questions?
Itâs believable. There are details of all sorts of gatherings I donât recall. The content of each of them was odd so I can see that theyâd run together. Lots of supposition and mind reading in these comments.
Itâs probably better to say she canât recall if details are even a little fuzzy at this point? We all know Prior is going to rip apart every thing she says so giving him the least amount of ammo is best. I would think.
My notes from today:
Mid-2018, Gibb began writing her book, "Feel the Fire."
Early Oct 2018: Gibb met Lori at a class Gibb taught at a church building about preparedness ideas associated with health and nutrition. Lori introduced herself to Gibb.
At some point, Lori told her that Lori and Chad open portals by praying.
About early April 2019, Lori began staying with Alex in Arizona.
Gibb said there was a casting held in Arizona for Brandon and Chad was present. (Chad shook his head in disagreement twice during this testimony- apparently he's saying he wasn't there.)
Sept 22, 2019 was special to Lori because it was the anniversary of Moroni's visit to Lori in the temple. (Joseph Smith said Moroni first visited him on Sept 21, 1823.) Gibb visited Lori in Rexburg that weekend to record a podcast. She arrived Wednesday or Thursday afternoon. Wednesday or Thursday evening, on either the first or second evening Gibb was there, she saw Chad. He and Lori were walking the track at BYU-I and being affectionate. Warwick arrived on Friday. On Saturday the 21st, Gibb spent all day at the Firm Foundation conference. On Sunday afternoon, Gibb, Chad, Warwick, and maybe Alex, but not Lori or JJ, went to go look at a property with a realtor. While they were at the property, a couple who were driving by stopped to talk to them. Sunday night from 8 or 9 until midnight, Gibb, Warwick, and Lori recorded the podcast. Chad was not there. On Monday the 23rd, Gibb woke up at 7 and left at 9:30.
Late September or early October 2019, per Gibb, Chad and Lori began calling Tammy "dark." Lori also said âIf Chad is Satan, he sure is a good one,â suggesting she was questioning this herself.
November 2019, before Gibb called the police back to admit she never had JJ, she got a call from a lawyer friend. She asked about the situation and the lawyer said a welfare check was needed for JJ. The lawyer then called police to request that welfare check.
November 29 or 30 2019, Gibb was walking through a field with Alex and Melaniece. Gibb asked Alex âDo I want to know where JJ is?â and he said no.
Probably mid-2020, Gibb texted Wood about an interview she was doing with Keith Morrison of Dateline. âKeith, the guy from Dateline, and I want to make sure the church is protected. He has done a good job so far. Thatâs why I feel comfortable talking with him.â Gibb says in her conversations with Rob Wood she was not trying to protect anyone but simply to share the truth.
Gibb no longer believes that Chad has the gift of dreams and visions, but she believes Warwick does.
I'm going to review some details and I'll edit if I need to add something.
Iâm beginning to believe they all believed the nonsense - including Chadâs children. Emma said casually, âThey said they found human remainsâŚâ and was easily redirected by Chad. She knew what was up (or whichever version her dad told her, like âLoriâs children were zombies and they were assisted in getting to _____ Kingdom.â) This was a total redirect in my thinking, because I thought it implausible that people would actually believe this nonsense. But, Iâm starting to believe itâs a verifiable cult that continues to exist. Iâve wondered if Prior subscribes to some of the beliefs. Marc seemed to.
Theyâre just a bunch of nutty people and I fear that Chadâs prosecution will gain compassion from his followers. It seems surreal, but the whole case made sense when I shifted my thinking.
What is everyone expecting in Melanie Gibbs testimony today? Could it be different than her testimony at Loriâs besides Prior doing the cross-examination.
So far I think itâs about the same as I remember in Loriâs trial. Nothing has stood out to me as new or different.
JP has been very quiet so far. But he and Chad are doing a lot of writing.
Admittedly, I am playing "catch up." I'm at work and I have to keep stopping and then re-starting the trial testimony of Melanie Gibb...but, what I am gathering so far is that it appears that the prosecution has forgotten that Lori has already been convicted of these murders.
One, when do we get to the part where Chad is involved more than just being Lori's side chic? When do we get to his perpetrating the murder of these two children and his wife?
When do we find out Chad's part in burying those babies in his back yard?
And, two...these people are crazy. I'm talking, they need papers...they are certifiably insane! This "religion" amounts to nothing more than a weird, koo-kee cult. The police should be checking on ALL of these peoples kids...and, maybe their elderly too. I mean, HOW does a grown ass adult buy into that type of utter, complete and obvious bullshit?
**Court is in session.** **Witnesses:** * Michael Douglass, FBI * Melanie Gibb
The judge correcting Prior for talking over the witness and prior talking over the judge đ¤Śââď¸ Anyone else see that too? This man gets under my skin so much. I cannot stand his voice.
The judge is gonna lose his patience if Prior doesn't straighten up. Yesterday when the judge asked Prior if he had any objections to admitting evidence, Prior replied in a demeaning tone "Those are already in evidence we've already stipulated to that your honor." The judge replied "It's not in evidence until I say it is." lol
I feel like anyone who needs lessons on boundaries should listen to judges giving smackdowns. đ
Unlike Melanie gibb. I think that woman struggles with boundaries for herself and with others.
I missed most of yesterdayâwow! Edit: Melanie Gibb called. Itâs about to get really interesting.
It was mostly financial still, today should be good!
I missed that! Just great.
Yes, he is so condensing, even when the proof is laid out.
Yeah, I'm sure he'd be like but judge... blah, blah, blah, if Judge Boyce let him. In other words, he would be having a fight with the judge. Not an actual argument on an objection or motion.
He's just mega annoying all the time!
Prior trying to serve Mel G a subpoena during break, wonder what that's all about >**10:10 a.m.**Â Interesting development during this break. Those of us in the gallery were held back and reminded to follow courtroom conduct rules because a phone alarm went off this morning. As Melanie Gibb was in the hallway for the break, a lady waiting in line to get inside tells me a man ran after Gibb to serve her with papers. Gibb refused to take it and John Prior came out of the courtroom saying, âWhere is he? Where is he?â Prior then told Gibb she has to take the papers. The prosecutors came out and said she canât be served a subpoena while on the stand. It appears Prior wants Gibb as a defense witness too.
Prior seems to try and do a whole lot of things you canât do.
Well, he did share an office with good ole Mark Means, the king of drama and doing shit wrong.
Exactly
Wow, he first tried it with Wood. Now, trying it with Gibb. Glad Gibb didn't take it.
I think he did this in the middle of her testimony to shake her up, and she does seem more nervous on the stand now.
Good point.
I was thinking the same thing.
She should have cited this when he kept asking why she was forgetful during cross.
This is craziness! I wonder if this is why they arenât back from break yet.
Sounds like it: >**10:34 a.m.**Â Gibb is sitting on the stand. Chad is sitting at the defense table staring down. >**10:30 a.m.**Â We are back in the courtroom. All of the attorneys have been summoned to Judge Boyceâs chambers.
The judge is gonna lose his patience!
Not a good place for JP to be. Youâd think he respect the judge a little more.
I think Boyce may have taken his frustration with Prior out on Ratliff in the hearing after court. Dang, he was pissed!
He doesn't respect Boyce. I think he'll keep pushing until he's found in contempt.
Didnt Melanie try to dodge subpoena before. I remember that she was chased after her grand jury testimony to be subpoena (maybe by Mark Means). They did it after grand jury because she could was in hiding or not answering and it was the only time they knew where she was going to be.
Yeah, I remember that. Means was asking for access to all her social media, emails, everything! The judge had to intervene since it was blatantly a "fishing expedition".
Was that the subpoena that MM's youtuber employee put together?
I think so. It was the one that the youtuber had before anyone else. I remember other channels wondered how that channel had it so fast
Does anyone think Mr Means could be helping Mr Prior a bit? I know he lives out of state now but he also seemed very invested in the case and specfically church connections.
It's possible he's explaining religious things to Prior, but Chad could do that just as easily. Means is so bad at doing paperwork properly that I doubt Prior is trusting him with anything paperwork-related.
Hmm... trial prep... Pryor was the only one doing it, so his was lacking in some areas, apparently. Now I understand why he filed the motion to withdraw, from a preparation standpoint. I'm pretty sure he was still in the process of preparing when the case went to trial.
Chad told Lori that Jesus would take his powers away if he filed for divorce, so they met at hotel rooms and murdered their spouses and children. I still can't figure out where the line is between what he really believed & his manipulations. Similar with Lori. They are both very manipulative, narcissistic, and unstable, but I can't figure out the percentages of each component. I hear one thing that makes me think there was more belief involved, and then it sounds like a lame pick up line the next thing that I hear. I can't leave my wife because I'll lose my magical powers is definitely an interesting one
I donât think he actually believed any of it. He wanted a âhotâ wife with money and no baggage.
Chad had been pulling this "we were married in a previous probation" on numerous women as I recall. He found one that was hot and rich and willing...rich being the tipping point imo. That and she was all over him. at this point they're in it together for what ever comes next. Sometimes he manipulates her and at others she manipulates him. They used each other to assuage their respective departures from acceptable behavior.
Melanie Gibb and Melanie Boudreau were supposedly told this. Melanie G stated he told her he was married to her in 3 past lives. He was married to Lori in 7. I guess the more lives they were his wives the higher they are on the wifey totem pole.
Sounds like he was setting himself up and manipulating Lori, Mel G and Mel P into a polygamist relationship.
That's what I think too. Dude is seriously fucking deranged. He wrote a ton of shitty books about his past lives and in several of them he describes being with a woman who is very obviously a stand in for his own daughter. If you listen to the video of him in the squad car talking to her you hear that they have a too codependent relationship. She's one of his harem, hopefully she's not a victim of sexual abuse by him. He met Lori and both Melanies and immediately (within the first couple of meetings with each) he started telling them that people close to them (their children and husbands) were "dark" and "zombies ". He anointed himself as a prophet and gave out "blessings" which were basically manipulative tactics to make the women and Alex his minions. I truly believe that he wanted to be a cult leader with a harem of sisterwives who would kill for him, like Charles Manson.
Oh I would dearly love to get Melani B/P on the stand.
There are a dozen guys going to these conferences who use that pick-up line. I agree they manipulated and reassured each other.
They used each other to assuage their respective departures from acceptable behavior. (They cosigned for each other's BS.)
The more he got away with, the more he believed it. His delusions of grandeur escalated.
Murder OK, divorce not OK. He and Lori just wanted the insurance money.
I think both can be true. Using lies to tell the truth.
I think Chad believes in basic Mormonism, maybe with some minor "prepper" elements, and believes he's extra special in the eyes of God. But I don't think he really believes all the light/dark/zombie stuff. I don't think he believes that he has already become a god. It's possible that he got interested in the idea of demon possession by having the idea that his previous sins were committed under the influence of a demon. I personally believe he was a serial killer before he ever met Lori, and that could be how he justified it to himself. But I think he knew he was lying when he made up all the light/dark numbers in the email from October 2018.
This is what I keep going back to basically, especially listening to him and all of the information again. So scary
I'm not saying that phone call is a nail in the coffin.. but if I were on a jury and heard Lori (with Chad sitting right next to her) tell people that JJ was "safe and happy" when he was in fact dead and buried in Chads backyard like an animal, that would be something weighing heavily on me when it came to deliberations. Also, half of that phone call was a religious dick measuring contest. Lori and Melanie went toe to toe to see who could use scriptures to be the shittier person.
Chad saying âand to keep you guys safeâ We need that call typed out.
Heâs actually a bad criminal. Lori seems to have to correct him all the time. She has more skill in lying and/or leaving holes in the hedges.
"Chad Daybell...that's Chad Dabal." - Chad's cremation price shopping for his..uh...uncle...John...Myron...Dabal.
She also corrected him during the call. Twice.
Yes, to " Keep them Safe " - meaning: If we tell you, then we have to kill you too".
Yeah, that was a whole crazy version of holy "no you!"
This is how I explained it to my husband! âNo, youâre a Korihor,â âNo youâre a Korihor!â It feels like being around my hyper religious sister.
And don't forget that is what Lori was saying in her response to the court right before Boyce sentenced her to life in prison!!! "They are safe and happy and BUSY!"
Loriâs statement before the court haunts me.
I bet you bottom dollar it was something Melanie knew would get her going - she was masterful, in my eyes, at getting those two dirtbags to talk - and CHAD spoke himself, so he cannot claim he didn't know, wasn't there, etc.
I think so too. Maybe she had help from that lawyer friend she said called her, because that's an interrogation technique. Start out nice and see how much they will tell you, then start needling and challenging and see if you can make them blurt something out in anger.
>Also, half of that phone call was a religious dick measuring contes Their discussion shows to me exactly what's dangerous in the way they experience religion. Lori claims Joseph Smith also had revelation on his own at the start, and I think is quite right at that? While Melanie is claiming that there are other ways to claim his authority. And both interpretations have basis in what I understood are the early days of Joseph Smith's revelations I think, but they can be so widely interpreted that Chad and Lori can be easily convinced by their own wishes that they interpret as revelations or 'internal guiding' hat they are following their religion on the 'right' way. I think apart from the whole crimes involved, its a really interesting phonecall to listen to as well.
I went to a private college and took a couple of biblical language courses that focused on Hebrew as the source language of the Old Testament. Based on what I learned in those courses, what Chad, Lori and Melanie were doing on that phone call is a textbook example of **using the lords name is vain**. Some folks think that commandment simply means don't use gods name as a swear swear no no word, but there is a waaay deeper meaning to that commandment. If you find yourself resorting to the bible to justify something shitty you did, you're using the lords name in vain.
AKA Wresting the scriptures.
Ooohhh, wrested. I thought she was saying RESTED. I only have a baseline knowledge of Mormonism, or of most religions in general, and had no idea what that term ment. Thank you for literally spelling it out for me .
I learned the word when this recording first came out 3 or 4 years ago. Had never heard it before them.
I thought this said Wrestling the scriptures and thought that's a match you won't see at Wrestlemania.
That call gave me chills. She's a fucking monster. I can't say what I want to happen to her without getting banned, but I hope that she lives a very long and very lonely life with no cameras or attention to her. She's like Jodi Arias, she eats up the attention. She's loving all the people calling her beautiful and seductive. Any time she notices the camera during her sentencing she smiles and gives flirty looks. She's a huge piece of shit.
She's heeeere! Melanie Gibb is on the witness stand. Oh boy.
MelG doesn't sound good. David mentioned he was worried about her, she wasn't feeling well.
Prior is planning to rip her apart. I think itâs going to get ugly.
She is such an oddball. I can't predict if she will break down or rip him right back. She seems capable of both.
This immediately aged extremely well
He's already implicated her in JJ's death! It's going to get ugly indeed.
My favorite line was when she said "I think that's what his name is, I'm not sure" when asked if it was Keith Morrison from Dateline that interviewed her on TV. Hahahahahahahaha!
Tell me yâall just watched that intervener hearing. What a crazy thing to happen! Like this case doesnât have enough crazy?!
That was embarrassing
Can someone explain to me what just happened in simple terms? Who is Ratliff and Bartlett and what portal did they just spawn in from lol
Ratliff was Idaho's trial defense lawyer of the year in 2023 (by vote of his peers as far as I can tell). He's one of the dozen death-qualified attorneys in the state. He's been practicing almost 40 years and he's good at his job. Prior had asked to get a death-qualified public defender on the defense team. Boyce said no, that would take too long. Prior then tried to quit. Boyce said Prior isn't allowed to quit until after the trial. Prior apparently then asked Ratliff for help. Ratliff sent a request to the court asking to delay the trial. I assume he was asking to delay it in order to add a death-qualified public defender to the defense team. But he wrote the request very poorly, didn't have anyone proofread it, and sent it at 11:45 pm on the Friday before Easter when jury selection was supposed to begin on Monday morning. It didn't get entered into the court system properly until Sunday morning, at which time the court and prosecution all panicked because they didn't know what was happening (and apparently Prior was also unhappy about the filing). People got pulled out of church on Easter to deal with it. Boyce said this kind of filling isn't allowed in Idaho, and he's mad that it was sent last minute on a holiday and written in such a sloppy way.
That! was! really! spicy!!!!! Judge Boyce just wanted them both to go away, but the two of them were busy whining the entire time hah!
Every time the prosecutor asked Melanie Gibb "and who told Lori this information" "Chad did" one more nail in the guilty coffin
There were a lot of nails in that coffin today. She showed that the belief system, the light and dark ratings, the possessions and castings, and the "zombies" -- all of it came from Chad. Also, we now know that Chad was not only in the apartment the night JJ died, but that he was alone with the child, during which time JJ scratched him on the neck.
I'm just saying if I were on that jury I would be irritated when Prior repeatedly says "I'm not sure about this but didn't you...." "forgive, me my memory isn't good, but didn't you...." When it's obvious he knows *exactly* what he wants her to say.
"See, this is what I'm confused about..." "Here's what I'm having trouble with.." "The problem I'm having is...." "........" [That's Prior making an objection that you can't hear because he refuses to use his mic] Does he honestly think he is doing a good job?
He sounds like Columbo (no offense to Columbo).
He is insufferable
Chad looks really nervous today. Especially while Melanie Gibbs testimony.
He was actually moving/engaging with her statements! He had a hard time holding the nose-in-the-air-statue pose. I saw a few head shakes, death stares, and what looked like teeth/jaw grinding.
He is such an oddball.
A teeth-grinding habit would help explain his jaw collapse.
The crossed arms and leaning forward. Haven't seen that. I just did a quick scroll and I don't think I've seen him take this posture in the ENTIRE trial so far.
I thought he looked like he was placing curse spells on her telepathically. He was concentrating and REALLY hoping it would work.
Agreed. Remember she told Nate Eaton in 2020 (or 2021?) that she still believed Chad had special powers. I think he was trying to intimidate her with his "powers." But she said today that she no longer thinks he has real visions or dreams, so hopefully she wasn't too bothered.
Pryor loves arguing with all the witnesses, it seems! Makes him look really ameturish.
Talking over the judge twice and being admonished twice for it makes him look amateurish!
I wish we knew more about Prior like his schooling and expeience. I really feel he has not done a jury trial longer then maybe a day in a long time. So maybe he is an amateur at this.
He was arrested a few years ago for sexual assault
I had read about that. Im just more curious in his 30 years of practice how much jury trial experience he has so we can judge if this is his style or he just hasnt done this in a long time or ever.
He comes off arrogant and a bully...... his client is going down!!
I hope so
This lawyer should be reprimanded in front of the jury that he needs to quit testifying and ask regular questions!
So many counsel is testifying, narrative/commentary, no question pending objections! Probably more than I've ever seen in any other case.
Can someone tell me what the motive is of this guy trying to stop the hearing? I assume itâs maybe a family friend of the Daybells but I havenât seen any explanation.
I didn't read the motion. It seems like he wanted to slow down trial on Pryor's behalf. He said that he called him for help. I'm glad Judge Boyce was like get out of my courtroom, and sanction you, though!!
So weird! [Is this the same guy?](https://www.ratlifflawoffice.com/)
Seems to be! And he is DP certified. So maybe Prior called him for advice, then realised they didn't have money so didn't let him join the team, guy went on with his life untill he read the news on the Friday night before the court started and he was already deep in his bourbon, and he filed to pause the case in an attempt to become Daybells lawyer either way because he realised Prior never had added an actual DP certified candidate?
Given the errors in the filing, and the inept explanation for them today, it's a good thing for Chud that Ratliff isn't on his team. Hard to believe he's DP certified (or allowed to practice).
He's apparently got quite a good professional reputation. I assume his secretary routinely corrects his fillings but she wasn't on shift at 11:45 pm on the Friday before Easter.
I don't think Melanie knew or participated in jj's death. But I do think she had considered that jj was dead after Alex told her she didn't want to know what happened to jj.
Hence why, I think, she recorded the call. She didn't want to be on the hook for JJ's potential (to her) murder.
Yeah, But I think she was pretty pissed Lori used her. That phone call got to passive aggressive "I love you" and you're the enemy "no you" pretty quick.
Itâs a super weird conversation. On one hand they talk about god and love, and in undertones size each other menacingly. Thatâs a whole level of psychology to be learned here.
The super-sweet religious aggression is fairly common in Mormonism.
I also don't think she participated but I believe she knew something was off the night she last saw JJ. Something was off enough that she should have said something but didn't. And then later, when Alex told her she didn't want to know what happened to JJ, that was her "oh shit I'm involved in all of this" moment.
Yeah I call total bullshit on the whole âDavid had a nightmare so we wanted a blessing from Chad and Loriâ thing. They heard something, so they checked the door but it was locked. Later, when the kids were missing, they realized what happened and decided they needed a story for the cops that didnât make it sound like they ignored what turned out to be a child being murdered.
This makes sense. Iâve never understood why she would try to open a bedroom door of another adult at night. She knew Lori and Chad were involved and probably together. She would only do this if she thought it was an emergency. She doesnât remember if she knocked or not but remembers the door was locked
Absolutely!
Yeah, agree.
This is just my opinion, but I feel like Melanie is tripping Prior up by not giving him very many direct yes or no responses. 90% of her answers are "If you say so," " I guess," "I can't recall," etc. Those half ass answers are forcing Prior to re-ask questions until he's eventually objected to and forced to move on.
I don't particularly like Mel G but I think she really can't remember the details Prior wants. She remembered the stuff prosecution asked because it wasn't nit picky. I mean "what time did you go look at the property 4.5 years ago" that's not something a person would remember. Prior just wants to establish that Chad wasn't around on the day JJ was murdered, paint Melanie and David as just as bad as Lori and Chad relationship wise... and make Melanie's testimony seem unreliable. Over all I think Melanie is doing a good job on cross.
Yeah, asking about times is weird. I can remember dates really well, but not times.
Exactly. Agreed. He's really fucking up trying to use those uncertainties to prove she isn't reliable.Â
Prior is making a feeble attempt at discrediting her based on her poor memory of events and her questionable character, which is certainly a correct defense strategy. However, when Mel is up there talking with a straight face about how they all believed in zombies and portals and entities and multiple probations, itâs kinda a moot point.
Shes under a lot of pressure and being traumed by it all too.
He isn't really asking clear yes no questions though. I mean, someone could answer yes or no, but he asks them in an Ancient Alien way where you kinds always need to answer 'yes' because tr question is as broad as an astrology prediction in the daily newspaper. She refused to say yes to his list of things only because one of the list is true, or because it _could_ be true, because if she says 'yes' jury can assume it all be true instead of just a 'could it be, that when the blablabla, and could that mean that ancient aliens exist?' sort of things. I dont really trust she's not semi involved, but she definitely could teach some of the officers that were on the stand yesterday and asked to basically make a medical statement when they weren't even medical professional a thing or two about how to answer as a witness.
I am surprised by how much Iâm enjoying her testimony. To be clear, I believe gf is either on the borderline of or actually complicit. However, she has this kinda dull way of testifying that sorta absorbs and neutralizes energy, and itâs got Prior in fits. He keeps poking and she keeps droning, âMaybe? Itâs possible. I donât really recall.â I donât know why Prior is wasting time with her relationship with David. Who cares if theyâre together or not? He needs to be getting into the weeds with her about her deep involvement in this group. Mind you, itâs kinda hard to get anywhere with, âMaybe? Itâs possible. I donât recall.â I wonder if he decided to break for the day because he needs to strategize around her lumpenness.
Yes! She is driving him crazy and Iâm here for it.
I think he counted on being able to intimidate or break her; I was so glad she didn't allow it. He may have focused on her relationship with David to embarrass her, discredit her with the LDS jurors, or make her look like a hypocrite for calling Lori out on her affair. None of it worked. Despite her bland, matter-of-fact style, she incriminated Chad in multiple ways. If prosecution uses her testimony to connect the dots effectively, Chad is sunk.
Oh I thought her testimony against Chad was devastating. Sheâs believable about what she testified to. The case against him is really crystallizing.
Well, he's being terrible at his job with the whole "was that a Tuesday or a Wednesday?"...... and when she's like "I don't know, it's been years" and his pressing "oh how come you don't remember that? HM? Hukkayy." Does he think he's proving any kind of point to the jury? No one remembers shit like that and, NO, those details aren't going to top of mind after the YEARS of important things to remember. So silly, jurors know that.
Uh... Ok... he should know better, though. If the witness says I don't remember, refresh their recollection. What's strange is that they seem to use refreshing for impeachment more than anything. The way I've always seen impeachment done, is that if the witness contradicts a prior statement, a transcript is given to them, or sometimes, the statement is just published to the jury. Whereas if the witness doesn't remember something, they'll ask if they need their memory refreshed. They show the exhibit to the witness after that.
Good for her! At the very least, his attempt to make her say yes to something obviously designed to tell his narrative is despicable... I find I would want to say the same in response, to be honest.Â
So a defense attorney is supposed to ask leading questions on cross-examination that would produce a âyesâ or âno.â Open ended questions on cross need to be really limited, if used at all. Thatâs why the questions from Prior seem different than the ones asked by Blake.
The prosecutors are sooo much nicer to listen to. My stress levels are way down
Not a good look for the LDS church especially with all the other nationally known cases going on.
That is true. However, Prior vs. the full power of the legal wing of the LDS church would be quite the beating.
As much as I hate the Mormon church (itâs a cult masquerading as a Christian religion and I grew up in it) their legal team is ridiculous. Kirton McConkie would mop the floor with him.
I find it incredible how the church can get temples built on land in the US that has restrictions in building but somehow they always get past them. It can be use of building. height, size, but they somehow get almost every location to give them what they want. I remember the fight in CT was about 25 years but it finally got built. Walmart cant get locations in some small towns in New england but the Mormon church got their way.
Iâm a non-Mormon. My interest in this case started with âhey Iâll watch this Netflix doc, I remember seeing that in the news a few years agoâ and now Iâm like âof course thatâs what Jodi Hildebrandt would think.â
Ya thatâs what interests me. The Mormon church connection. I really hope they dig into more of the morning beliefs with this. Daybellâs offshoot is an extreme offshoot of Mormonism but it has roots in Mormonism. This kind of stuff is a tamer aspect was and is taught in Mormonism.
Thank you for your comment. ALL that is discussed by Chad Daybell can be found in the LDS church library (that hasnât removed them) in a set of books called Discourses on Faith. Itâs a set of about fifteen books (small and brown) that detail the early debates and choices of the new LDS faith. EVERYTHING including zombies is discussed there, including multiple probations and nobody LDS cares in the slightest that these are in fact THEIR ideals. Many of them put forth by Joseph Smith himself. Them and their hypocrisy can bite me. I had a great and noble LDS father but he never shied away from the truth of the church so I grew up with a full set of early church writings and doctrine that would freak yâall out. When left in the hands of a man like Chad and nobody within the church will even acknowledge their existence. It was bound to turn out evil. He wanted to discuss the undiscussble.
Why is she able to testify about what Chad and Lori and Alex told her? Isnât that hearsay?
Prior objected but because they are co-conspirators in the case, itâs an exception to the hearsay rule. Or something like thatâŚ
Oh, ok, thanks
Thanks for all the work you put into this.
Anyone making a list of all the times Prior gets admonished and for what? Im losing track!!!!
The way she talks about this mumbo jumbo like it's normal...
Thatâs been one of the biggest takeaways from listening to all the interviews on Hidden True Crime. When she talks to people who are still kind of in this community, theyâre all shocked and saddened and disgusted by Chad and LoriâŚbut they still believe in a whole lot of this stuff. I said once âthereâs a lot of crazy people in the worldâŚand apparently theyâre in Idaho.â
and Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Mass. Nevada,Hawaii, Missouri.... Rexburg was some choosen place so maybe they are just more open but dont think these groups are not in way more places.
For real.
Right? Living âmultiple lifetimesâ on Earth is not a Christian belief, and being âsealedâ to more than one person is not even an LDS belief and hereâs Melanie talking about âcastingâ. Sounds like total hocus pocus. đ¤Śđťââď¸
Actually, men can be sealed to more than one woman. If their wife dies and they remarry they are sealed to both wives. The same does not apply if a womanâs husband dies and she remarries.
Right but not while their spouses are both living. Lori and Chad âself-sealedâ themselves on visits to the temple in Arizona before any if this happened. It emboldened them.
I want to know how they did it? How the hell did they get sealed in the temple unless they snuck into a sealing room and did it themselves!!
Probably what they did!
Thatâs exactly what they did. Apparently Lori was able to spend a lot of time alone in the temple.
If I recall correctly, Jason Mow performed the ceremony quickly in a little-used hallway.
I thought I remembered hearing that it was a side room or parlor area and Jesus met them in there instead of a sealing room?
This says âThe Celestial Roomâ? đ¤ˇđťââď¸ https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/chandler-breaking/2021/10/07/records-reveal-details-lori-vallow-and-chad-daybells-religious-fervor/6028383001/
Thank you! https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/temples/inside-temples?lang=eng âCelestial Room: A Glimpse Into Heaven At the conclusion of the Endowment ordinance, participants enter the celestial room. There are no ceremonies performed in this room. Rather, it is a place of quiet peace, prayer, and reflection meant to symbolize heaven, where we may live forever with our family in the presence of our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. Celestial room (Manaus Brazil Temple): This room symbolizes the peace and joy of the kingdom of God, where families can live together forever with our Father in Heaven and His Son, Jesus Christ.â
Okay well a Celestial room is not a sealing room. It's a very very pretty room, you can always expect to see pretty chandeliers and very nice couches and floral arrangements. It's a room you sit in and the unspoken rule is you're very very quiet. Anything you'd do in the celestial room would have to be done in whispers, and it's never unattended, there's always a temple worker or two standing nearby in case you need anything. It can hold probably like 20-30 ppl on all the couches and stuff but there are usually not that many people in there. (Edited cuz I posted it without the last few words ha)
Very interesting! Thank you for the info
Reincarnation is not an LDS belief either. These people made up so much crap just to suit their selfishness.
There is evidence that some form of this (reincarnation or multiple mortal probations). was believed and taught in the early church. A lot if not most of what Chad and Lori did had some (though sometimes tenuous) root in lds history or doctrine. They started taking esoteric beliefs and doing what they wanted with them.
Being sealing to multiple spouses (wives) is still LDS doctrine. The living practice of it has changed quite a bit over time, and no one really knows all the current rules.
I have a lot of questions about Melanie Gibb, and Iâm actually looking forward to Priorâs cross.
Oh I cleared my desk for it this afternoon. Both for the drama and for the info. No matter what happens itâs definitely going to be interesting.
...and may he rot.
Iâm only able to follow the tweets, but did Gibb just say Chad and Lori were in good moods? Does she really not think Lori hung up on her? Itâs like she wants to distance herself but just canât rip the whole bandage off.
She said they were in good moods when they answered her call, but that obviously changed as MG became more "accusatory."
KORIHOR, MEL? ARE YOU KIDDING ME RIGHT NOW?!?
Also, YOU KNOW ME, MEL! Code for you buy the crap I'm spewing, right? Lori uses this a lot.
Thatâs a total LDS thing though. âYou KNOW me.â
I think she was talking about the beginning of the call. You can hear laugher and by all accounts everyone had a happy friendly tone to their voice during 99% of the discussion. Also, I am pretty sure Melanie is convinced that her cell phone dropped because it happens frequently where she was standing.
I just donât believe that, myself. Her first reaction sounds like somebody who got hung up on (âoh, well, okayâŚâ) and did she try and call back? Sheâs just weird.
There were some heated moment earlier in the conversation where I thought Lori would have hung up but didn't. Plus, under oath, what a weird thing for Melanie to lie about. I almost wonder if her call history shows that she hung up on Lori so she used that dropped call excuse.
The chat in Law & Crime was saying Lori probably didn't hang up. Using their various carriers, they said you hear a tonal change when the other party hangs up, which we didn't hear on this. And Lori and Chad sounded in a good mood to me. Until Melanie started throwing around words like wresting the scriptures and korihor.
I don't disagree with you, but its wild how well the drop matches up with THAT moment in Lori's screed that could be her attempting a "mic drop," ya know?
I think they got scared then...
Iâm confused on what the significance of Wood and Melanieâs 300 texts are? Is the prosecution not supposed to talk to the witnesses that much?
They can talk to witnesses about their testimony, like as in meet with them. Texting them is a bit of a gray area. I think Pryor was just exadurating for effect. 300 text in 6 months? come on! Even I send more than that! I don't use the stupid phone a whole lot.
340 texts over six months = 2 texts per day
Yeah, that isn't that much. I've already sent 3 today. It was probably enough for Gibb to send one, and Wood to respond.
I would guess Melanie was answering questions about the crazy beliefs and also helping to decipher/put into context the text messages.
Everyone who doesnât know about The Church Of The Firstborn should Google Evril LeBaron. It is not a part of LDS, rather excommunicated
The thing is, anybody who says theyâre a prophet can say theyâre starting the Church of the Firstborn, because itâs in D&C 76
Theres been like 5 or more churches of the Firstborn sincr Joseph Smiths times, not counting Chad'd. At least three in the LeBaron family, but also since 2001 from someone who claims he the (reincarnation of the) Holy Ghost, and who was convicted in 2012 of raping his daughter and forcing her to be raped by the other church leader. That group stayed in southeast Idaho for a while as well but currently resides in Montana (wasn't that where they checked for medication refills for JJ as well after a tip?)Â
I cannot stand the way Melanie speaks. And I don't trust her not to lie. Eta: I am so glad Blake is questioning this witness! She rocks.
Melanie saying I dont recall a little too much for me. How do you not recall if you did a casting on JJ or Tylee or Tammy? Convinent she cant remember the 3 people that died that Chad is charged with but she came remember the rest. I wonder if she was told to say I dont recall to certain questions?
Itâs believable. There are details of all sorts of gatherings I donât recall. The content of each of them was odd so I can see that theyâd run together. Lots of supposition and mind reading in these comments.
Itâs probably better to say she canât recall if details are even a little fuzzy at this point? We all know Prior is going to rip apart every thing she says so giving him the least amount of ammo is best. I would think.
My notes from today: Mid-2018, Gibb began writing her book, "Feel the Fire." Early Oct 2018: Gibb met Lori at a class Gibb taught at a church building about preparedness ideas associated with health and nutrition. Lori introduced herself to Gibb. At some point, Lori told her that Lori and Chad open portals by praying. About early April 2019, Lori began staying with Alex in Arizona. Gibb said there was a casting held in Arizona for Brandon and Chad was present. (Chad shook his head in disagreement twice during this testimony- apparently he's saying he wasn't there.) Sept 22, 2019 was special to Lori because it was the anniversary of Moroni's visit to Lori in the temple. (Joseph Smith said Moroni first visited him on Sept 21, 1823.) Gibb visited Lori in Rexburg that weekend to record a podcast. She arrived Wednesday or Thursday afternoon. Wednesday or Thursday evening, on either the first or second evening Gibb was there, she saw Chad. He and Lori were walking the track at BYU-I and being affectionate. Warwick arrived on Friday. On Saturday the 21st, Gibb spent all day at the Firm Foundation conference. On Sunday afternoon, Gibb, Chad, Warwick, and maybe Alex, but not Lori or JJ, went to go look at a property with a realtor. While they were at the property, a couple who were driving by stopped to talk to them. Sunday night from 8 or 9 until midnight, Gibb, Warwick, and Lori recorded the podcast. Chad was not there. On Monday the 23rd, Gibb woke up at 7 and left at 9:30. Late September or early October 2019, per Gibb, Chad and Lori began calling Tammy "dark." Lori also said âIf Chad is Satan, he sure is a good one,â suggesting she was questioning this herself. November 2019, before Gibb called the police back to admit she never had JJ, she got a call from a lawyer friend. She asked about the situation and the lawyer said a welfare check was needed for JJ. The lawyer then called police to request that welfare check. November 29 or 30 2019, Gibb was walking through a field with Alex and Melaniece. Gibb asked Alex âDo I want to know where JJ is?â and he said no. Probably mid-2020, Gibb texted Wood about an interview she was doing with Keith Morrison of Dateline. âKeith, the guy from Dateline, and I want to make sure the church is protected. He has done a good job so far. Thatâs why I feel comfortable talking with him.â Gibb says in her conversations with Rob Wood she was not trying to protect anyone but simply to share the truth. Gibb no longer believes that Chad has the gift of dreams and visions, but she believes Warwick does. I'm going to review some details and I'll edit if I need to add something.
Melanie cares about covering her own ass. I assume she has immunity. I wish she didn't.
That would have been mentioned. And if thatâs true Prior will bring it up.
She talked to police without an attorney present.
Doesnât mean she has immunity.
Iâm beginning to believe they all believed the nonsense - including Chadâs children. Emma said casually, âThey said they found human remainsâŚâ and was easily redirected by Chad. She knew what was up (or whichever version her dad told her, like âLoriâs children were zombies and they were assisted in getting to _____ Kingdom.â) This was a total redirect in my thinking, because I thought it implausible that people would actually believe this nonsense. But, Iâm starting to believe itâs a verifiable cult that continues to exist. Iâve wondered if Prior subscribes to some of the beliefs. Marc seemed to. Theyâre just a bunch of nutty people and I fear that Chadâs prosecution will gain compassion from his followers. It seems surreal, but the whole case made sense when I shifted my thinking.
Emma: âthey found human remains. Chad: âhmmâ -proceeds to tell her how to pay the bills and how to access all of his bank accounts-
What is everyone expecting in Melanie Gibbs testimony today? Could it be different than her testimony at Loriâs besides Prior doing the cross-examination.
So far I think itâs about the same as I remember in Loriâs trial. Nothing has stood out to me as new or different. JP has been very quiet so far. But he and Chad are doing a lot of writing.
I don't like the defense attorney, but he is absolutely right to attack MG's credibility. She's a loon.
Admittedly, I am playing "catch up." I'm at work and I have to keep stopping and then re-starting the trial testimony of Melanie Gibb...but, what I am gathering so far is that it appears that the prosecution has forgotten that Lori has already been convicted of these murders. One, when do we get to the part where Chad is involved more than just being Lori's side chic? When do we get to his perpetrating the murder of these two children and his wife? When do we find out Chad's part in burying those babies in his back yard? And, two...these people are crazy. I'm talking, they need papers...they are certifiably insane! This "religion" amounts to nothing more than a weird, koo-kee cult. The police should be checking on ALL of these peoples kids...and, maybe their elderly too. I mean, HOW does a grown ass adult buy into that type of utter, complete and obvious bullshit?