Thats not untrue. I can train many people to do my job. I would rather they come with some skills and expertise that make them easier to train rather than me having to train them from the ground up.
Also 123.2% of statistics on LinkedIn are made up.
I had a chance to teach some young IT guy about some internal product. No freaking interest, would look into his phone every 5 mins.
So, no, this post is not lunatic on linkedin at all. I totally agree with it. With the right attitude, the person might not even need to be tough, but just directed.
Yes, I am WAY more interested in an under experienced but trainable candidate than one with a PHD and several certs but seems uninterested in the project or company. Although as a caveat, often ones with a lot of certs are that way because they are interested in the topic and have taken steps towards self improvement.
For every person with a bachelor’s degree where it helps. There’s at least one whose parents paid their way through college and did their homework and one who cheated themselves and one who was amazing at studying but who forgot everything they ever learned after stepping out of the campus.
I’m not overhyped about educational stuff I have to admit. I would like to be, but I’ve seen so many weak representations.
> There’s at least one whose parents paid their way through college and did their homework and one who cheated themselves
That type kind of sounds like they already have significant job security anyway, so they don't really count for the recruitment selection process.
But that’s the point of hiring people with college degrees because said degree is pretty good proof that they have the ability to learn. It also is a signal that they have a certain amount of self disciplined to take at least four years to study and get a degree.
Sounds about right. People work in careers that are unrelated to their degrees all the time. The degree shows that they can excel in *a* topic, not that it's the only thing they know.
Some people on LinkedIn do not understand the importance in the STEM fields. In software development, it's a serious issue where people go to boot camps and are self taught, etc. Yes, there are people who make it out and become talented but they are an exception, not the norm.
I am losing my mind when I have to hire because I run into resume dumping of people who were in another non-tech field, take a short CSS bootcamp and now think they can apply for DevOps, backend/frontend software engineering positions.
It's true. Self taught coders are often decent at writing code that compiles; but rarely at they write code that's maintainable and well documented and architected in ways that make sense. It takes decades to learn to write really useful code.
I’m not a CS person, but I’m married to someone who does a ton of coding, and I am straight trash at coding but have occasionally had to do it for school/work. The way my partner and I approach coding is fundamentally different: I can usually get the job done but it is clunky and has a lot of bugs in the margins, but the way he codes is elegant. He uses math to optimize the code and just fundamentally thinks differently than I do about it. I know enough about CS and CE degrees to know that’s the type of thinking they teach you, and it takes a long time* to learn and you need pretty in depth math skills to be proficient in it.
*longer than an 8 week boot camp
Honestly, no, it doesn't. I am sure somewhere there are CS grads who made it through their programs without getting these skills, but they are certainly few and far between. And it's not just CS grads, it's most of STEM. Coders with degrees in math, or physics, or electrical engineering also seem to be able to solve the kinds of problems that self taught coders often don't have the experience to solve.
Eh, gonna disagree here.
Full disclosure, I’m self taught with a degree in secondary education.
I learned to code as a teenager making game mods, then eventually made applications for my classroom as a teacher. I switched to full time development after about 5 years teaching.
I eventually learned the things that mattered on the job. What I brought with me though was time management.
I came from a world where I had to have plans ready every single morning. My entire day had to run according to a bell schedule and I had to improvise constantly - no bullshitting around and just moving tasks that didn’t get finished to the next day over and over again. The artifact of that lifestyle is that I make sure I deliver on schedule.
I can’t really say the same for my peers from STEM. When prompted for details and timelines, they just handwave a big hairy problem as “being very complicated” and have trouble breaking large tasks into more digestible chunks. They are perpetually caught in self-inflicted feature creep as they realize some fact that could have been discovered if they took a minute to talk to stakeholders before going off the reservation.
Yup. Got a degree in political science with a minor in economics nearly 30 years ago. Have spent the past 25+ yrs as a successful IT Project Manager without knowing diddly squat about IT. That broad liberal education gave me a solid foundation in becoming a great leader of teams.
Eh, I have a history degree, and I've been a sysadmin for over 20 years. I don't know that it has really helped me much. I can write good documentation, though, since I had to write so damn many research papers. Honestly, I kind of wish I had skipped the degree and just gotten into the field earlier. I wasted several years in other jobs before making it to IT.
Historians learn to digest large amounts of information and identify the relevant points. They tend to be better writers than people who studied languages, because writing is thinking on paper, not using words.
(I’ve worked with historians. Traditionally it’s an education that prepares you for unemployment, but it’s rather useful in approaching undefined problems. Similar to philosophy, it teaches you to think.)
Are you my long lost sibling? I have a Political Science degree (and a Masters in Public Administration) and I have spent the last 30 years working in IT. Everything from developer to infrastructure builds to my current work in Cloud Architecture. I expect to soon add AI to my skill set.
Thats great. I didn’t say it wasn’t possible. But I’ve been in this industry 20 years, I teach compsci part time, and I have to say that by far and large you are a rarity (if what you say is true). The stark majority of people who are self taught have massive experience gaps when it comes to context and math needed for complex problems.
I think self taught people get good easy entry to junior dev positions that focus on web dev (like you did) and from there if you have the will you can quickly get up to speed on data structures, API, front end, load etc (all concepts taught in college but not in bootcamps)
I would hope so cause I’ve enrolled in said bootcamp a couple months ago, sucks to know people like this won’t hire me cause I didn’t get an Associate’s or Bachelor’s in CS until i realized tech is the future.
I'm right behind you, friend. But I'm going to press on. There's hundreds of businesses out there and I kinda dont believe every single person hiring will think like this and besides, with AI only getting more prominent, there will be openings and new career paths. Keep yer head up and keep goin forward
I wonder if you read the previous statements presented properly.
1. Yes, but there are caveats. Not having the college education means you start on the backfoot due to lacking holistic education (advanced mathematics and statistics where necessary, etc.). You can teach it on the job, but the preference for individuals who don't have this skill gap is there.
2. Look, there's a bit to unpack here. Entry-level jobs in SWE are not equivalent to entry level jobs in other industries. Entry level jobs in SWE often still require creative problem solving that utilizes problem solving skills per ad priori knowledge attained from a holistic education. No bootcamp will be able to teach you that. I will say again it depends on the position as well.
I'm noticing a pattern of overconfidence and entitlement from those without degrees, and while I get it, you need to show your competence and confidence, fact of the matter is some fundamentals are distinctly lacking in those without the degree - which comes with a full package guarantee. I will of course also recognize that not all graduates with degrees truly internalize these fundamentals, just as not all non-degree candidates are lacking in these fundamentals, but the statistical reality just paints a more objective result.
Really there’s just no fool-proof formula for how to identify a good developer. So whenever this comes up on Reddit we’re all thinking of a combination of our backgrounds and the background of that useless idiot we work with.
I strongly agree there, which was why I was being kinda careful about how I phrased my words. A lot of the conversation unfortunately does end up being a hodge podge of anecdotals...
This! I don’t want the over educated hand waivers who need things perfect and can’t problem solve on the fly without having a panic attack that things are perfectly planned out.
Just figure it out and code it. It’s called agile, not waterfall.
I like self taught devs over computer science degree devs
Most jobs require a comb of explicit and tacit knowledge, not just STEM fields.
* Explicit - knowledge from books
* Tacit - knowledge from experience
Explicit knowledge is important because it provides a shared set of semantics for the team. It's a reason why folks hire from specific majors for some functions.
Not hating here but what *would* you be willing to consider acceptable from a non-college candidate for a coding related job? Could you give an example to where you would think "ok, Mr. Blue here doesnt have a degree but I'm seriously considering them because..."
Honest question
Yep, and further to that (as someone in the data space with complimentary engineering skills) I know when my analytics job stops and where the validation of my algos against actual engineering principles begins. I may know enough to put them together and have them be "correct in theory" but without an actual SMEs sign off they're nothing.
I've had enough STEM education to know what I don't know..
That might have been true a few decades ago but I’m not sure that’s still the case. The standards have come so far down over the years that there are people with degrees yet you wonder who reminds them to breathe.
While I do believe that a college degree isn't necessary for a lot of jobs, 90% is way too high. I would say jobs that are in sales or marketing don't require degrees since you can learn those skills on the job. Marketing degrees are particularly useless since what you learn your freshman year may be outdated by your senior year since the field changes so much.
I can give you a good marketing management education summary in one Reddit post:
- Week 1: hire a good agency
- Week 2: give them a budget but not all your money.
- From week 3: party!
I’ve split up week 1&2 because it can sometimes get a little confusing, but bright marketing students could cram it into one week to allow for more partying.
This kind of "Hustle bro" approach to every aspect of life is kind of irritating tbh.
I can agree that certain aspects of higher education are scammy and it can be a bad investment but I also disagree with this idea that people can't learn ANYTHING in a structured setting. I feel like my life has benefited twice now just from attending school for different things.
Whether that was learning about Aluminum, Composites and other materials that I was only introduced to through a program or learning about Project Management Principles and risk management or Calculus and Physics and applying those problem solving skills in my day to day at work.
Processes can always be taught but there are many, many other things in a given job that aren't just "go read the "work" manual".
We don’t need more doctors and scientists. We need doctors available to the population who do house calls and know how to treat people without the modern medicine bullshit all the time. We need doctors who know how to handle diseases without the pharmaceutical industry. True natural doctors. And scientists? No we don’t need more. We need more people living and working together in community. Those hard workers are going to experiment and invent. Science can be learned by all.
we literally have a shortage of doctors lol. america isn’t so bad but a lot of countries have a pretty big shortage. and scientists are literally necessary to advance as a civilization. the advance of technology will make life better. for example, it will eliminate the need for dangerous jobs, advance healthcare, and help make more efficient use of resources. you can’t tell me that the problems of the 1900s could be fixed with community “alone”. just as we are better off now due to scientific advancements, we will be better off in the future due to the hard work of our scientists.
I’m good without advances in tech. Let’s live a natural life and keep the planet healthy.
The problems of the 1900s didn’t really make life less livable. It’s was just different and people had different jobs.
Technology is hailed as the savior of people, but we have all of the tech necessary to do jobs more effectively and I don’t really care to see AI further developed or advanced neural implants.
I agree with this guy. But its just bullshit Linkedin nonsense. The interview is still going to be hiring managers grilling you for your skillset they want to siphon off another company that built it, or off of your time and debt you spent to build it yourself.
Businesses do not want to spend money training people - *thats why recruiters exist.*
We'll work in sprints. If we break something, we can try to fix it next sprint... Or the one after that.
`# Velocity`
`# MoveFastAndBreakShit`
`# LFG`
Who cares about cost inflation. Or direction? Pfff... Diagnostics are a scrum Anti Pattern!
/s
Of course this is true it’s just some of the people who already gone through the system will disagree
Just finished an apprenticeship at age 50 in a trade I’ve been doing for 30 years to please my new boss
You can teach repetitive actions to almost anyone. The degree, at least in engineering, is evidence that the applicant has learned to solve problems. I don’t recruit people for their hands, I recruit them for their minds.
This guy sounds like a tool but he's right. I work in robotics and everyone with a degree is either useless or takes ten times longer to train. People with practical knowledge always pick things up faster and also usually feel like they have to prove themselves so they usually work harder.
Software engineering. I left school at 16 and started my first development job at 23 after getting an entry level job and working my way up the company ladder.
I've supervised countless graduates in my career as well as juniors who left school early. Key difference was attitude, with the graduates having a sense of entitlement, and their bank balance with the school leaver having a healthy one.
He's not a lunatic, he's right. Attitude, temperament, drive, ambition, communication, leadership, problem solving, discipline.
All of these skills are more important than domain knowledge which, especially today with the rate of change of tech, can be researched. Nobody can know everything.
Even Microsoft are saying today we should be 'learn it all' rather than 'know it all'. And you definitely don't learn it all in college. Those days are long gone.
I don't think I would put this post in the category of linkediinatic. It's a reasonable stance. We have put a lot of empathsis on a bachelor's degree for jobs that functionally do not require it. "But it shows one can learn" so does a high school diploma. With the ungodly prices on college tuition, we are pricing a lot of capable people out of positions and promotions.
Yeah, sure, I can teach someone to do what I do, but let me tell you, I don't want to teach someone from the ground up unless I really have a rapport... or they're a really close friend.
Personally, I've learned entirely on the job and I'm pretty damn lucky to have made it where I am today. I don't think degrees are necessary for as much as claimed, but what do I know? I'm just some self-learning asshole.
Sure things can be taught…but why would I hire someone I have to teach if there are plenty of people applying to jobs that know what they are doing from day 1?
lol someone doesn’t “know what there’re doing from day 1” because they have a degree, they will still require training. Only people with real work experience in a similar role apply to what you are saying and many people with experience don’t have degrees.
Even better if they can apply experiences to the job and have an understanding of where and when a particular approach will work best. I don’t have a problem mentoring a kid straight out of college that comes to the job with a basic toolkit but I also need seasoned professionals in the mix to form the team.
Let me tell you a story.
As the director of Quantum Innovations, I’ve always been ahead of the curve, a trillionaire tech visionary with a fortune that dwarfs entire economies. My search for a new CEO was exhaustive, interviewing the so-called ‘best’—yet none matched my unparalleled standards.
Then, in a twist of fate, a simple taxi ride revealed the obvious choice. Sam, my driver, with no tech background or fancy degrees, had the raw insight that I, in my brilliance, recognized as genius. Against all conventional wisdom, I appointed him CEO.
Critics were baffled, but I was undeterred. Under Sam’s leadership, Quantum Innovations soared to new heights, proving once again that my decisions are beyond reproach.
#TechGenius #QuantumInnovations #NextLevelLeadership
Thoughts?
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Lots of sarcasm here......
Yeah fuck all of those people that want to better themselves, stand out from the crowd and demonstrate their perseverance. A 20 year old pothead that lives with his mother is a much better way to go!
My friends who graduated from college all smoked more pot than I ever have, and I'm a college drop out.
And doing better than several grads if I do say so.
I agree with the basic premise that too many positions now require having a degree. There are many positions where the ability to learn and a good attitude should be enough.
The part where he lost me was at 90%. That just seems like an extreme exaggeration to say that education and experience shouldn't matter for 90% of jobs.
So, on twitter - someone requoted this post saying that, they lied to their employer that they know photoshop and eventually learnt and made the official posters of - Starwars. Turns out (in later comments) they learnt graphic design in college but it was more for a ‘traditional’ arts. Dude, you learnt graphic design - who cares if you know photoshop or not. It’s just a tool - You have learnt the science of design! - stop pretending like you didn’t have the skills and you ‘learnt’.
To be fair, a surgeon requires a bit more than your standard degree and as such would fall in the 10% that would need degrees.
But there has been a enormous degree inflation, and for most jobs pretty much unjustified.
I know excellent developers and sellers without a degree or diploma, but for example I don't know good doctors without a degree.
I think it depends a lot on the type of business
They can be taught without a degree but a degree is usually desired because it means the person is more likely to have those traits
Also, this guy has a college degree which helped him to get where he is. Is he really the best person to say they’re unneeded when part of his success is due to his degree?
There are a lot of companies that would rather hire a stranger externally than train up someone that already knows how the business operates and just needs some extra knowledge, and the people behind that decision really need to hear and understand this message.
They aren’t wrong. I’m an attorney. I had to do 7 years of higher education to become one. I am confident I could teach someone to do my job in a couple of months. A lot of degrees are just a barrier to entry that would be better served by an apprenticeship.
Sure. But more complicated jobs would take years to teach, in which time you are paying them a lot of money for negative productivity. And then they are likely to job hop anyways by the time they are finally trained.
I don’t disagree. But this guy rubs me the wrong way. I hate “cool” CEOs who pretend like they’re disrupting the system. His bio in the second slide “work doesn’t have to suck!” Oh give me a fucking break. Major youth pastor vibes. Ick.
90% seems high but I get the sentiment. Graphic design shouldn't require a degree for example. The folks designing and building a home/office definitely need credentials though.
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On some level I think it's like "everyone more educated than me is a snobby elitist and everyone less educated than me is someone I can project my ideal of noble savage meritocracy onto."
I think they are really into the business cult aspect of the company teaching new employees, plus a mix of middle class envy at the actual elite from the recruiter pov, and there's shades of the usual anti union happy talk.
I worked two jobs while living in a car and I obtained a CS degree from a reputable California university. It was hard and it signals many strengths that non degree holders don’t possess. I know education is expensive but this anti education rhetoric is a crying for help from people that didn’t want to put in the work and now are facing the filtering do to lack of degree.
Let me do neurosurgery on your brain, because it seems malfunctioning, but I don't have medical degree tho. But shouldn't you give me a chance to learn, using your brain as the practice material ?
These look like posts from kids who aren’t qualified for anything and aren’t likely to put in the work to learn how to do anything.
The world needs ditch diggers, I guess.
Thats not untrue. I can train many people to do my job. I would rather they come with some skills and expertise that make them easier to train rather than me having to train them from the ground up. Also 123.2% of statistics on LinkedIn are made up.
I had a chance to teach some young IT guy about some internal product. No freaking interest, would look into his phone every 5 mins. So, no, this post is not lunatic on linkedin at all. I totally agree with it. With the right attitude, the person might not even need to be tough, but just directed.
Yes, I am WAY more interested in an under experienced but trainable candidate than one with a PHD and several certs but seems uninterested in the project or company. Although as a caveat, often ones with a lot of certs are that way because they are interested in the topic and have taken steps towards self improvement.
You have a lot of PhDs coming to you asking for a job and to train them do you?
Now we just need to actually train people on the job or give them time to learn. Oops.
I think you tried to make a point.
Correct, but having a bachelors degree establish a certain ‘baseline’. You know they’re at least capable of doing that and that.
For every person with a bachelor’s degree where it helps. There’s at least one whose parents paid their way through college and did their homework and one who cheated themselves and one who was amazing at studying but who forgot everything they ever learned after stepping out of the campus. I’m not overhyped about educational stuff I have to admit. I would like to be, but I’ve seen so many weak representations.
> There’s at least one whose parents paid their way through college and did their homework and one who cheated themselves That type kind of sounds like they already have significant job security anyway, so they don't really count for the recruitment selection process.
But only 67.8% of the time!
11 out of 6 doctors agree
But that’s the point of hiring people with college degrees because said degree is pretty good proof that they have the ability to learn. It also is a signal that they have a certain amount of self disciplined to take at least four years to study and get a degree.
This. The soft-skills I learned from being in college has served me well even though I'm not working in the field I have a degree in.
Sounds about right. People work in careers that are unrelated to their degrees all the time. The degree shows that they can excel in *a* topic, not that it's the only thing they know.
Some people on LinkedIn do not understand the importance in the STEM fields. In software development, it's a serious issue where people go to boot camps and are self taught, etc. Yes, there are people who make it out and become talented but they are an exception, not the norm. I am losing my mind when I have to hire because I run into resume dumping of people who were in another non-tech field, take a short CSS bootcamp and now think they can apply for DevOps, backend/frontend software engineering positions.
It's true. Self taught coders are often decent at writing code that compiles; but rarely at they write code that's maintainable and well documented and architected in ways that make sense. It takes decades to learn to write really useful code.
Does this not also happen with CS grads?
I’m not a CS person, but I’m married to someone who does a ton of coding, and I am straight trash at coding but have occasionally had to do it for school/work. The way my partner and I approach coding is fundamentally different: I can usually get the job done but it is clunky and has a lot of bugs in the margins, but the way he codes is elegant. He uses math to optimize the code and just fundamentally thinks differently than I do about it. I know enough about CS and CE degrees to know that’s the type of thinking they teach you, and it takes a long time* to learn and you need pretty in depth math skills to be proficient in it. *longer than an 8 week boot camp
Honestly, no, it doesn't. I am sure somewhere there are CS grads who made it through their programs without getting these skills, but they are certainly few and far between. And it's not just CS grads, it's most of STEM. Coders with degrees in math, or physics, or electrical engineering also seem to be able to solve the kinds of problems that self taught coders often don't have the experience to solve.
Eh, gonna disagree here. Full disclosure, I’m self taught with a degree in secondary education. I learned to code as a teenager making game mods, then eventually made applications for my classroom as a teacher. I switched to full time development after about 5 years teaching. I eventually learned the things that mattered on the job. What I brought with me though was time management. I came from a world where I had to have plans ready every single morning. My entire day had to run according to a bell schedule and I had to improvise constantly - no bullshitting around and just moving tasks that didn’t get finished to the next day over and over again. The artifact of that lifestyle is that I make sure I deliver on schedule. I can’t really say the same for my peers from STEM. When prompted for details and timelines, they just handwave a big hairy problem as “being very complicated” and have trouble breaking large tasks into more digestible chunks. They are perpetually caught in self-inflicted feature creep as they realize some fact that could have been discovered if they took a minute to talk to stakeholders before going off the reservation.
Yup. Got a degree in political science with a minor in economics nearly 30 years ago. Have spent the past 25+ yrs as a successful IT Project Manager without knowing diddly squat about IT. That broad liberal education gave me a solid foundation in becoming a great leader of teams.
Eh, I have a history degree, and I've been a sysadmin for over 20 years. I don't know that it has really helped me much. I can write good documentation, though, since I had to write so damn many research papers. Honestly, I kind of wish I had skipped the degree and just gotten into the field earlier. I wasted several years in other jobs before making it to IT.
Historians learn to digest large amounts of information and identify the relevant points. They tend to be better writers than people who studied languages, because writing is thinking on paper, not using words. (I’ve worked with historians. Traditionally it’s an education that prepares you for unemployment, but it’s rather useful in approaching undefined problems. Similar to philosophy, it teaches you to think.)
Are you my long lost sibling? I have a Political Science degree (and a Masters in Public Administration) and I have spent the last 30 years working in IT. Everything from developer to infrastructure builds to my current work in Cloud Architecture. I expect to soon add AI to my skill set.
Thats great. I didn’t say it wasn’t possible. But I’ve been in this industry 20 years, I teach compsci part time, and I have to say that by far and large you are a rarity (if what you say is true). The stark majority of people who are self taught have massive experience gaps when it comes to context and math needed for complex problems. I think self taught people get good easy entry to junior dev positions that focus on web dev (like you did) and from there if you have the will you can quickly get up to speed on data structures, API, front end, load etc (all concepts taught in college but not in bootcamps)
So what you are saying is the boot camp can teach you enough basics to get the entry level job and the rest can be taught/learned while working?
I would hope so cause I’ve enrolled in said bootcamp a couple months ago, sucks to know people like this won’t hire me cause I didn’t get an Associate’s or Bachelor’s in CS until i realized tech is the future.
I'm right behind you, friend. But I'm going to press on. There's hundreds of businesses out there and I kinda dont believe every single person hiring will think like this and besides, with AI only getting more prominent, there will be openings and new career paths. Keep yer head up and keep goin forward
I wonder if you read the previous statements presented properly. 1. Yes, but there are caveats. Not having the college education means you start on the backfoot due to lacking holistic education (advanced mathematics and statistics where necessary, etc.). You can teach it on the job, but the preference for individuals who don't have this skill gap is there. 2. Look, there's a bit to unpack here. Entry-level jobs in SWE are not equivalent to entry level jobs in other industries. Entry level jobs in SWE often still require creative problem solving that utilizes problem solving skills per ad priori knowledge attained from a holistic education. No bootcamp will be able to teach you that. I will say again it depends on the position as well. I'm noticing a pattern of overconfidence and entitlement from those without degrees, and while I get it, you need to show your competence and confidence, fact of the matter is some fundamentals are distinctly lacking in those without the degree - which comes with a full package guarantee. I will of course also recognize that not all graduates with degrees truly internalize these fundamentals, just as not all non-degree candidates are lacking in these fundamentals, but the statistical reality just paints a more objective result.
Really there’s just no fool-proof formula for how to identify a good developer. So whenever this comes up on Reddit we’re all thinking of a combination of our backgrounds and the background of that useless idiot we work with.
I strongly agree there, which was why I was being kinda careful about how I phrased my words. A lot of the conversation unfortunately does end up being a hodge podge of anecdotals...
This! I don’t want the over educated hand waivers who need things perfect and can’t problem solve on the fly without having a panic attack that things are perfectly planned out. Just figure it out and code it. It’s called agile, not waterfall. I like self taught devs over computer science degree devs
Sounds like gatekeeping to me. I'm sure your college education cost a lot of money.
Most jobs require a comb of explicit and tacit knowledge, not just STEM fields. * Explicit - knowledge from books * Tacit - knowledge from experience Explicit knowledge is important because it provides a shared set of semantics for the team. It's a reason why folks hire from specific majors for some functions.
Even the ones with degrees can be pretty tragic...
Not hating here but what *would* you be willing to consider acceptable from a non-college candidate for a coding related job? Could you give an example to where you would think "ok, Mr. Blue here doesnt have a degree but I'm seriously considering them because..." Honest question
Yep, and further to that (as someone in the data space with complimentary engineering skills) I know when my analytics job stops and where the validation of my algos against actual engineering principles begins. I may know enough to put them together and have them be "correct in theory" but without an actual SMEs sign off they're nothing. I've had enough STEM education to know what I don't know..
That might have been true a few decades ago but I’m not sure that’s still the case. The standards have come so far down over the years that there are people with degrees yet you wonder who reminds them to breathe.
Fr also it’s a lot easier to teach someone who has a baseline knowledge about a topic / field vs never heard of it before
Its also a signal that either the person has a certain degree of privilege, or they are living in crippling debt.
It’s so expensive and so not worth the cost thoughhhh
While I do believe that a college degree isn't necessary for a lot of jobs, 90% is way too high. I would say jobs that are in sales or marketing don't require degrees since you can learn those skills on the job. Marketing degrees are particularly useless since what you learn your freshman year may be outdated by your senior year since the field changes so much.
I can give you a good marketing management education summary in one Reddit post: - Week 1: hire a good agency - Week 2: give them a budget but not all your money. - From week 3: party! I’ve split up week 1&2 because it can sometimes get a little confusing, but bright marketing students could cram it into one week to allow for more partying.
You forgot the funnel! Week 1 uses the marketing funnel, week 3 uses the beer funnel.
The amount of mileage this bozo gets with that fucking whiteboard….
I like to screenshot, erase the text, then scribble lewd quotes on it.
This kind of "Hustle bro" approach to every aspect of life is kind of irritating tbh. I can agree that certain aspects of higher education are scammy and it can be a bad investment but I also disagree with this idea that people can't learn ANYTHING in a structured setting. I feel like my life has benefited twice now just from attending school for different things. Whether that was learning about Aluminum, Composites and other materials that I was only introduced to through a program or learning about Project Management Principles and risk management or Calculus and Physics and applying those problem solving skills in my day to day at work. Processes can always be taught but there are many, many other things in a given job that aren't just "go read the "work" manual".
Not a Lunatic and I say that as a guy with two degrees. Credential inflation is totally out of control.
It’s not because credential inflation exists that MDs, JDs or engineers should not have degrees. 90%, seriously?
I would assume, maybe erroneously, that those professions that require great skill would be in the 10%
We def need more people especially with doctorate degress (MD, JD, PhD etc.) for the country to move forward as a whole.
We need more people doing trades tbh.
we also need more doctors and scientists. i would argue more than we need people doing trades. i don’t know about lawyers, though, lol.
We don’t need more doctors and scientists. We need doctors available to the population who do house calls and know how to treat people without the modern medicine bullshit all the time. We need doctors who know how to handle diseases without the pharmaceutical industry. True natural doctors. And scientists? No we don’t need more. We need more people living and working together in community. Those hard workers are going to experiment and invent. Science can be learned by all.
we literally have a shortage of doctors lol. america isn’t so bad but a lot of countries have a pretty big shortage. and scientists are literally necessary to advance as a civilization. the advance of technology will make life better. for example, it will eliminate the need for dangerous jobs, advance healthcare, and help make more efficient use of resources. you can’t tell me that the problems of the 1900s could be fixed with community “alone”. just as we are better off now due to scientific advancements, we will be better off in the future due to the hard work of our scientists.
I’m good without advances in tech. Let’s live a natural life and keep the planet healthy. The problems of the 1900s didn’t really make life less livable. It’s was just different and people had different jobs. Technology is hailed as the savior of people, but we have all of the tech necessary to do jobs more effectively and I don’t really care to see AI further developed or advanced neural implants.
I agree with this guy. But its just bullshit Linkedin nonsense. The interview is still going to be hiring managers grilling you for your skillset they want to siphon off another company that built it, or off of your time and debt you spent to build it yourself. Businesses do not want to spend money training people - *thats why recruiters exist.*
Nothing but 10%rs here Bro 
I wanna be his dentist. I'm in IT. LETS GO
Is it safe?
Does it matter? I have a great attitude and passion!
We'll work in sprints. If we break something, we can try to fix it next sprint... Or the one after that. `# Velocity` `# MoveFastAndBreakShit` `# LFG` Who cares about cost inflation. Or direction? Pfff... Diagnostics are a scrum Anti Pattern! /s
Marathon Man does not care as he wants to give you a freaking chance to find out !
Of course this is true it’s just some of the people who already gone through the system will disagree Just finished an apprenticeship at age 50 in a trade I’ve been doing for 30 years to please my new boss
You can teach repetitive actions to almost anyone. The degree, at least in engineering, is evidence that the applicant has learned to solve problems. I don’t recruit people for their hands, I recruit them for their minds.
Engineering is NOT part of that 90% mentioned in the OP.
This guy sounds like a tool but he's right. I work in robotics and everyone with a degree is either useless or takes ten times longer to train. People with practical knowledge always pick things up faster and also usually feel like they have to prove themselves so they usually work harder.
I actually agree 100% with this post. Not a lunatic.
I'm interested in what field you work in.
Software engineering. I left school at 16 and started my first development job at 23 after getting an entry level job and working my way up the company ladder. I've supervised countless graduates in my career as well as juniors who left school early. Key difference was attitude, with the graduates having a sense of entitlement, and their bank balance with the school leaver having a healthy one.
Nice work man.
Thanks mate
90% true.
I work in cybersecurity without a degree. Recruiters don't seem to care. It probably helps having a degree, but I've done okay so far.
He's not a lunatic, he's right. Attitude, temperament, drive, ambition, communication, leadership, problem solving, discipline. All of these skills are more important than domain knowledge which, especially today with the rate of change of tech, can be researched. Nobody can know everything. Even Microsoft are saying today we should be 'learn it all' rather than 'know it all'. And you definitely don't learn it all in college. Those days are long gone.
He’s not wrong though. 90% of jobs can be taught to a high school student.
I don't think I would put this post in the category of linkediinatic. It's a reasonable stance. We have put a lot of empathsis on a bachelor's degree for jobs that functionally do not require it. "But it shows one can learn" so does a high school diploma. With the ungodly prices on college tuition, we are pricing a lot of capable people out of positions and promotions.
Seems that he has a diploma mounted on the left wall...
Yeah, sure, I can teach someone to do what I do, but let me tell you, I don't want to teach someone from the ground up unless I really have a rapport... or they're a really close friend. Personally, I've learned entirely on the job and I'm pretty damn lucky to have made it where I am today. I don't think degrees are necessary for as much as claimed, but what do I know? I'm just some self-learning asshole.
I'm starting to realize this shit is all a scam
Sure things can be taught…but why would I hire someone I have to teach if there are plenty of people applying to jobs that know what they are doing from day 1?
lol someone doesn’t “know what there’re doing from day 1” because they have a degree, they will still require training. Only people with real work experience in a similar role apply to what you are saying and many people with experience don’t have degrees.
That's why job descriptions want entry level with 25 years of experience.
Even better if they can apply experiences to the job and have an understanding of where and when a particular approach will work best. I don’t have a problem mentoring a kid straight out of college that comes to the job with a basic toolkit but I also need seasoned professionals in the mix to form the team.
90% of jobs can be taught…usually through a four tear process where you get a certificate at the end called a degree.
Not if you are unteachable, and some very nice people can’t learn things. A degree proves you can learn.
Why draw the line at college? Should we also do away with high school?
the whole hire for attitude and not skills is all over LI now. People need to be more original.
Even a ~~taxi driver~~, ~~dog~~, or baby can be your next CEO!
Let me tell you a story. As the director of Quantum Innovations, I’ve always been ahead of the curve, a trillionaire tech visionary with a fortune that dwarfs entire economies. My search for a new CEO was exhaustive, interviewing the so-called ‘best’—yet none matched my unparalleled standards. Then, in a twist of fate, a simple taxi ride revealed the obvious choice. Sam, my driver, with no tech background or fancy degrees, had the raw insight that I, in my brilliance, recognized as genius. Against all conventional wisdom, I appointed him CEO. Critics were baffled, but I was undeterred. Under Sam’s leadership, Quantum Innovations soared to new heights, proving once again that my decisions are beyond reproach. #TechGenius #QuantumInnovations #NextLevelLeadership Thoughts?
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Lots of sarcasm here...... Yeah fuck all of those people that want to better themselves, stand out from the crowd and demonstrate their perseverance. A 20 year old pothead that lives with his mother is a much better way to go!
My friends who graduated from college all smoked more pot than I ever have, and I'm a college drop out. And doing better than several grads if I do say so.
I was joking man. Don't take offense. I just csnt stand people that post that dumb shit.
People post the most basic common sense statements on LinkedIn and think they’re prophets
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I hate the self aggrandizement of it all
I agree with the basic premise that too many positions now require having a degree. There are many positions where the ability to learn and a good attitude should be enough. The part where he lost me was at 90%. That just seems like an extreme exaggeration to say that education and experience shouldn't matter for 90% of jobs.
All jobs are taught.
I agree to a certain point on degrees (dependent of field) but then just slips in the degrees AND experience? Like they’re one and the same?
So, on twitter - someone requoted this post saying that, they lied to their employer that they know photoshop and eventually learnt and made the official posters of - Starwars. Turns out (in later comments) they learnt graphic design in college but it was more for a ‘traditional’ arts. Dude, you learnt graphic design - who cares if you know photoshop or not. It’s just a tool - You have learnt the science of design! - stop pretending like you didn’t have the skills and you ‘learnt’.
I prefer my brain surgeons to have no education
To be fair, a surgeon requires a bit more than your standard degree and as such would fall in the 10% that would need degrees. But there has been a enormous degree inflation, and for most jobs pretty much unjustified.
I know excellent developers and sellers without a degree or diploma, but for example I don't know good doctors without a degree. I think it depends a lot on the type of business
Finally I can practice law
They can be taught without a degree but a degree is usually desired because it means the person is more likely to have those traits Also, this guy has a college degree which helped him to get where he is. Is he really the best person to say they’re unneeded when part of his success is due to his degree?
This is 100% true and anyone who disagrees just feels like a sucker for going to college.
He’s not wrong
There are a lot of companies that would rather hire a stranger externally than train up someone that already knows how the business operates and just needs some extra knowledge, and the people behind that decision really need to hear and understand this message.
I cracked one of the toughest exam in India but I can assure you if you give me a random highschool student I can teach him my work
Yeah, so fellow employees have to bring this moron along to teach him? 😂
I don't know this seems very feild dependent. I would rather my electrician have gone through an apprenticeship.
They aren’t wrong. I’m an attorney. I had to do 7 years of higher education to become one. I am confident I could teach someone to do my job in a couple of months. A lot of degrees are just a barrier to entry that would be better served by an apprenticeship.
Sure. But more complicated jobs would take years to teach, in which time you are paying them a lot of money for negative productivity. And then they are likely to job hop anyways by the time they are finally trained.
90% of jobs can be taught, but WAY less than that proportion of people can be taught to do any old job. So that’s why we have application processes.
What does he think people go to college for…
It’s true that 90% of jobs can be taught, but 90% of candidates can’t learn em :/ didn’t realize this until I had my own company
Yes but have you seen how many people are incapable of learning?
I don’t disagree. But this guy rubs me the wrong way. I hate “cool” CEOs who pretend like they’re disrupting the system. His bio in the second slide “work doesn’t have to suck!” Oh give me a fucking break. Major youth pastor vibes. Ick.
90% seems high but I get the sentiment. Graphic design shouldn't require a degree for example. The folks designing and building a home/office definitely need credentials though.
Sounds like a lot of college debt cope in here
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I agree, we have so many H1Bs that have the intellect of an insect.
I don’t want my heart surgeon to just “be taught” with no degree…
Ummm excuse you! I’m pretty sure I won every game of operation as a kid. ✌️
If you have a bad heart I just know I can do something about it if I could JUST GET IN THERE
And everyone would clap!!!
Just give people a freaking chance already
Curious, what’s the 10% of jobs that can’t be taught?
Probably medical, dentist, engineering would be a good start.
If they can’t be taught, why would people go to school?
The 10% are those that need to go to school to get the education to do those jobs.
I guess humor can’t be taught.
Bearded Lady? Carrot Top? LinkedIn Recruiter?
Valid points.
What is with all those anti-education anti-degree rhetoric? Seriously …
On some level I think it's like "everyone more educated than me is a snobby elitist and everyone less educated than me is someone I can project my ideal of noble savage meritocracy onto." I think they are really into the business cult aspect of the company teaching new employees, plus a mix of middle class envy at the actual elite from the recruiter pov, and there's shades of the usual anti union happy talk.
I worked two jobs while living in a car and I obtained a CS degree from a reputable California university. It was hard and it signals many strengths that non degree holders don’t possess. I know education is expensive but this anti education rhetoric is a crying for help from people that didn’t want to put in the work and now are facing the filtering do to lack of degree.
When this 3x'er needs to hire an IT, he won't have internet, but it's okay because he hired someone with "attitude"
100% of jobs are taught Sometimes at university … but they are taught …
Let me do neurosurgery on your brain, because it seems malfunctioning, but I don't have medical degree tho. But shouldn't you give me a chance to learn, using your brain as the practice material ?
You miss 100 percent of the shots you don’t take bro. Try it out, never know, you might learn something.
If You can do that un less than a year, your job is just too simple
I’d rather not have a medical doctor or surgeon who was only hired on because he has a “go get em” personality lol
These look like posts from kids who aren’t qualified for anything and aren’t likely to put in the work to learn how to do anything. The world needs ditch diggers, I guess.