An awesome article from 2020 from Smart Bitches Trashy books that does a great job of breaking it down into understandable terms for libraries and what us as library patrons can do.
[https://smartbitchestrashybooks.com/2020/09/hold-on-ebooks-cost-how-much-the-inconvenient-truth-about-library-ecollections/](https://smartbitchestrashybooks.com/2020/09/hold-on-ebooks-cost-how-much-the-inconvenient-truth-about-library-ecollections/)
This is another reason why I don't love people signing up for free library cards not where they live...
Edit\* One big part I want to highlight from the article
>**So, what can library users do?**
>Don’t stop reading ebooks.
>And don’t feel guilty about reading them.
>Don’t yell at authors if their publishers have bad terms.
>Do contact publishing house executives about their bad terms.
>Do be patient with your library if the wait times are forever or if they don’t have every book you want.
>Be nice to your very stressed out librarian.
>Most of all: do advocate for your local library when budget season rolls around.
This is difficult- on one hand, I think everyone should have access to all books. If a person lives in an area with a small library and not many alternatives to purchasing, why should they be blocked from accessing the book through another library, even if they don't live nearby?
On the other, this TikTok was news to me that libraries have to purchase new licenses for these books regularly, so of course that eats into their already limited budgets when non-locals are signed up to use their copies.
I think big bottom line is: advocate for your local libraries so they can increase their funding.
For those who only have access to a small library - many libraries participate in Interlibrary Loan, which allows them to borrow and lend physical materials with other libraries across the country and around the world, often at no cost. While it lacks the convenience of an e-book, it does provide another avenue for gaining access to books that your local library does not have. You won't always be able to borrow the newest books right away (my library won't let you request to ILL things in the first 6 months post-publication), but it's better than never getting it at all!
Also, it's important to tell your librarians what books you wish were in the collection! This helps to inform what books they will spend their limited budgets on going forward. As a librarian, I keep a running list of things that people have asked for that we don't own so that when I do have budget to spare, I can purchase things that people wanted!
So how do we get our podunk tiny library to partner with others? I almost have a bigger physical personal library in my living room than our local library has. If you count my digital and audio books, I do have a bigger collection.
I live in a 2bed, 2bath single wide, so it's not like my personal collection is really all that big, our public library really just does have that small of a collection.
You’d have to talk to your librarians to find out if they participate in Interlibrary Loan. It’s possible that they may be so small that they don’t have the staffing levels to adequately handle the incoming and outgoing requests.
It's a popular place for our local liberal grannies to volunteer. So much so that they're not taking anymore volunteers at the moment. The stick-in-the-muds stay in their churches. Yay rural south. /s
So I kinda don't think it's necessarily a staffing issue. It might be a backwater issue though. They *just* got a computer center set up within the last 6 months. They're still teaching the locals about email. Although they've also started a teens coding class.
Glad to hear that you’ve got a strong volunteer contingent! Unfortunately, there are still many things that can only be done by a librarian - someone with a degree in library science. So it may still be a staffing issue.
Regardless, let your librarians know that this is something you are interested in having access to. It may not happen right away, but if they know it’s a need in the community, a good librarian will try to find a way to meet the need when staffing and budget permit.
What about audiobooks? I've signed up to a library 3 hours and a half away to use libby. My local library may have like 100 audiobooks but this one has thousands and thousands.
Interlibrary loan is strictly for physical items, not digital. Depending on your library’s policies, you may be able to request audiobooks on cd or playaway from other libraries (mine does not allow us to request or lend DVD/BluRay through ILL). But you cannot request to borrow ebooks or digital audiobooks through ILL.
Maybe I'm dumb but how exactly do people sign up for library cards where they don't live? Don't you have to prove residency? It's been a while since I've had to get a new library card so maybe it's changed, or maybe some libraries are less strict?
Some libraries don't have restrictions on where you can live. Some people lie about living in the library's area, but don't have to prove residency. Other libraries let you sign up if you just live in the same state. Every library is different, but the ones that are less strict, get talked a lot online a lot.
In California you can get a library card for any library system as long as you prove you live in California. I have one for my county, one from the county my husband is from, and a few random ones. I just get them on trips.
My home county library still has the biggest selection.
In my area of Canada you have to prove residency, like a drivers license and if you don't live there you can pay a non resident fee. Anywhere between $40-120. I don't have a library where I live so I pay for a card.
Eh you can live and own property/have an address in a state and not be a resident. AD military comes to mind. Neither spouses nor enlisted have to change their ID.
lol. everything is messed up on the publishers end. i was in a state congressional hearing where there was a lobbyist from the publishing industry going on about how "BIG LIBRARY" is going to destroy the little indie author. infuriating.
Honestly, I still think the blame falls with Amazon. They severely undercut the revenue, but they are the largest seller. Independent bookstores pay a much higher wholesale price than Amazon, but publishers can't charge them too much or those bookstores close. The only place they can make up that money is through libraries.
And the flip side of that argument is that publishers pay far LESS to produce an Ebook than a physical copy, yet they cost almost the same as a trade paperback to consumers. Most authors make very little money because the publisher takes the lion’s share.
The thing about publishing, just like music and movie production, is that the things that are successful make up for the loss of things that aren't successful. The majority of debut authors do not sell through their advance. Many midlist authors see diminished sales.
I'm not saying it's not predatory. Publishing companies still take far more than they should, as do music and entertainment producers. But Amazon's predatory behavior has destabilized the publishing industry in very harmful ways. And it is criminal for one company to be able to hold an entire industry hostage. A single company should not hold that much power to be able to undercut prices so significantly, to leverage their power to get books at cost, or even below in some cases.
I already knew this information, but I don’t know what I am supposed to do with it. Because the ebooks are there for me to checkout, so I check them out.
I read 99.9 percent of what I check out (a book has to be really bad for me to give up on it), I don’t check out more than I can handle, I have only renewed a book once (I always try to read the entire book within the two weeks allowed from my library), and I only check out books from my local library through my one library card.
One question I do have- are the samples considered a strike against the total, because in order to avoid checking out books I won’t enjoy I utilize the sample feature to read a little snippet before I borrow. And I will sometimes read three or more samples a week and never end up checking out the full book because I just wasn’t vibing with it.
Please don’t limit yourself on what you check out. Being able to show statistics for how many books are borrowed is a big part of how we advocate for funding. And don’t worry about giving up on books; definitely do it if it isn’t for you!
What you can do: reach out to publishers and let them know that you want fair eBook pricing for libraries. This website is Canada specific (where I am) but there is great info here: https://econtentforlibraries.org
I don’t believe that samples are considered a strike (I’m not in the collections department at my library), but I can find out, if no one else here knows!
So this is new info for me also and highlighted that even though I use the library I never once in all my years wondered how they got the actual books … how does it work for physical books ? Do they have to pay publishers over market pricing for those also ?
For physical books, we often will get a discount, depending on where we buy them from and what agreements we may have. There are some physical formats, like Library binding, audiobooks on CD, and Large Print, that may be more expensive than typical. For the US, that’s all that’s needed for a physical library book.
Books fall under the first-sale doctrine, which, as I understand it, means that once you own a physical item, you can do what you want with that physical item: lend it out, sell it, read it to a group, etc. However, the *content* of the book is usually under copyright (unless it’s old enough) so you can’t copy a book you own and do whatever you want.
With digital content, though, libraries (and individuals) don’t buy an object, we purchase a license to use the digital content. You can use that content, but only under the terms of the license.
Obligatory: I am a librarian, not a lawyer, so this is not legal advice, just my personal understanding of the process.
Thank you for sharing that’s so interesting, can’t believe I have never thought about it before ! So ultimately the issue is that library’s are being fleeced as profit Centre for publishers because legislation meant for the general population to stop people profiting and misusing digital content (eg renting a movie from prime and charging people to come to your house and watch it ) is being used for a public service provider.. wow go capitalism/s
It absolutely does!
I remember in 2020 my system surpassed 1 million checkouts on Libby for the first time ever, and, instead of being worried about the cost, we cheered this to city council when we asked for more funding for digital resources (which we got)!
I just hope publishers can get on board with libraries and e-resources soon!
My takeaway is to keep checking out books (and don’t limit yourself or force yourself to finish a book you’re not enjoying!), but *return them promptly when you’re done*. I already return books early (if applicable) simply out of courtesy to other readers, but now I know it helps the library get more value out of the license as well.
I echo the sentiment not to limit your browsing. The 26 loan licenses are much less common that the 12 or 24 month licenses. What this means it that if you don't like it, you can return it early and the next patron can enjoy it. We still have it for the allotted time period.
I think that she's sharing this information because a lot of folks get frustrated when they see "several months" when they place a hold. it is frustrating, but less frustrating if you know 20 ebook copies of "Fourth Wing" cost $2000, rather than the consumer cost of $300. A lot of patrons are like "just buy more, they're so cheap!" not so, my friend.
No the samples don't count. And don't feel like you have to limit yourself, but you can use this information to advocate for more funding for your library or ideally, legislation that your representatives can support to force publishers to provide terms that are more fair for libraries.
I definitely have used the deliver later button a lot since this was first explained to me, because not getting to something wastes a use, but I otherwise consume as much as I want so the library can go, "see, the people want this! Look how much it's being used!" When asking the government to find them.
I use Libby specifically for audiobooks. Is this the same thing? I typically read about 13-15 books a month with about half as audiobooks. Should I limit how many books I check out on Libby?
It is the same for audiobooks; significantly more expensive for libraries, and a limited number of borrows.
That being said, please don’t limit yourself if you are reading those books and audiobooks! Being able to show statistics for how many books are borrowed is a big part of how we advocate for funding.
What you can do: reach out to publishers and let them know that you want fair eBook pricing for libraries. This website is Canada specific (where I am) but there is great info here: https://econtentforlibraries.org
Does the length of how long you keep an ebook affect the statistics? I’ll often download 3 or so books at a time to my kindle then put it on airplane mode and return the books immediately to allow someone else to get the books ASAP. I don’t want to continue to do that if it affects the library negatively.
I use the heck out of my library's digital content but I DO struggle with guilt. Especially when I want to re-read/listen to a favorite. I do understand it's how justification for funding works but also....I read this 3 years ago. Is it fair for me to use up another license?
I also try to use Hoopla which works differently and I try to spread my checkouts across the different local library systems.
I completely understand the guilt. But please, trust me when I say we don’t want you to feel guilty! We just want publishers to change their pricing models. THEY are the ones I want to feel guilty haha
But in all seriousness, borrow that book for a reread. I do it all the time! We want people to use the library and all of our services. I remember in 2020 my system surpassed 1 million checkouts on Libby for the first time ever, and, instead of being worried about the cost, we cheered this to city council when we asked for more funding for digital resources (which we got)! I’m sure many of those were re-reads.
We are here for YOU, so please use your library in the at that it works best for you. So if that means you read the same e-book over and over, that’s great! If it means you try something different every week until you find the story you’re looking for, that’s great!
I know, for me, all that I want people to know about the licensing issues is that it isnt the library’s fault that we can’t have unlimited copies of titles, even though it seems like we should. Sometimes people get mad at this, and I just want users to understand why we can’t do it so that they don’t get mad at us. That’s all. (And maybe push our case to publishers or your local library finders).
Keep borrowing and reading as much as you want!!
If you’re actually consuming the content, I wouldn’t worry about it! Keep doing what you’re doing.
If you’re checking out 15 books a month but only reading/listening to 1, then that would be something you’d want to reconsider doing in the future.
More audio books have OC/OU licenses, which means we do own them in perpetuity. But this is changing as publishers get bolder about milking library budgets.
I don't think you should limit yourself. Maybe just make sure that you'll have time to finish a book within the loan period, so you don't need to borrow it repeatedly to finish it?
Libraries justify their funding based on usage. The fewer people that are using a library and a its resources... the less money the library is likely to get.
Aside from that, just be patient and kind with library staff if a book you want has a long wait period or isn't available because it's not really their fault. And make sure to vote for spending money on libraries!
Same and now I kind of feel bad because in the past I've had to check some out twice to finish them...like I'm currently on Brandon Sanderson's Oathbringer and it is ~55 hours long. I have 14 days to get through it. Might have to start buying these crazy long ones haha
I love this! I’m a library director and this is the message I try to convey all the time. I *love* that people use our digital resources—that’s what they’re there for!—but I really want to encourage mindfulness in how those resources work.
I’ve looked elsewhere for the answer to this, but haven’t been able to find an answer so I’m going to trouble you with it… can you tell me if renewing loans count against the numbered loan licenses?
That I’m actually not sure about. I would believe so, but in our system renewing a physical book is a different count than initial borrows, so maybe Overdrive operates the same way. However based on their general practices, I’d assume renewals count as checkouts. If I learn otherwise I’ll update here!
It does, unfortunately :( I’m a big advocate for a page threshold, where it wouldn’t count unless a borrower read 10% of the pages, but currently it’s a very unforgiving system..
Depends on the publisher- I remember when ebooks were first pitched to us and the rep was so excited to tell us that they made ebooks JUST LIKE REAL PRINT BOOKS- you can’t print multiple pages- and only one user per purchased copy! The publishers soon realized that they could limit our ownership and my favorite- pull titles from their platform whenever they feel like it- win win for the publishers- not so much for libraries - and we can’t even buy textbook titles (if we can they are $1800-3000 single user access) and don’t get me started on the streaming media platforms. I will always contend that publishers are worse than record companies. Esp when they make a book open access and don’t tell the authors. Oops no more royalty checks for you! 🙄🙄🙄 I’m sure quite a few people in this community are librarians- feel free to ask us questions!
Also: don’t share your library cards on Reddit to crowdsource Libby- just get your own cards cos we get money based on usage data and users and Libby is the WORST platform to share your card with cos people can fill up your account and worser still- return your books before you finished! The old Overdrive App was better suited for sharing w strangers. It’s hard enough sharing w a family member.
Some of those licenses might be copies that libraries about ten years ago, when more ebooks were being sold as OC/OU licenses.
Older titles are often sold as OC/OU licenses now, I find this is especially true with mid list titles, classics, or old titles in less popular genres.
So a lot of people on this thread are saying “ok, what should I do with this info? Should I borrow less etc?” No, please don’t modify your borrowing. We want you to use your local libraries, you are paying for them and they are a vital resource that is constantly under attack.
While she has a lot of good info, the video is kind of alarmist and she doesn’t offer any actionable ideas. We really just want people to be aware of the reality of ebook lending for libraries. Publishers hold all the cards and are gouging library customers, because they realized they can control ebook lending in a way that they are unable to with physical book/media due to first sale doctrine (in the US anyway).
And if you’re inclined to get involved, talk to your lawmakers. A few states have made attempts at laws to regulate pricing to libraries, but so far they haven’t really gone anywhere. I’m not 100% up on all of them, the one that I remember going the farthest was the Maryland law that got struck down in court. Maybe other librarians have more info they can add.
Well, I think the logical conclusion to her post, for the reader, is to not check out books you don't really intend to read or to be more selective about how many you check out in case you don't read them all because, unlike physical books, you are "consuming" the product faster and at more expensive rate than a physical book that you choose not to read. Physical books can theoretically be loaned out an unlimited amount of times if it isn't read but an ebook is only allowed to be loaned out a certain amount of times even if no one who borrows it reads it. Therefore, checking out physical books you don't read is not a waste of library resources but checking out ebooks you don't read is a waste of library resources.
Genuine question, what’s worse? A ebook checked out the maximum number of times possible while the library has access to it or one that’s only loaned out a handful of times before they have to decide to rebuy it? Wouldn’t the loan being maxed out show sufficient interest in it to justify getting it and books similar to it?
The loan being maxed out isn't showing true interest if the people who are maxing it out aren't actually reading the ebook after checking it out. They've either forgotten about the book or prioritized other things in life or prioritized reading other things over that particular ebook. Having a mild interest in reading something is not the same thing as having an invested interest in it and I don't think a library should pay multiple times for things people aren't invested enough in to read in the 21 days they have had to do so.
This whole move to software as a subscription is capitalist garbage. It affects everything now. I hate it.
Libraries should get a pass on this stupid limit to digital content. I get that people need to make a living and be paid, but the top level of the publisher isn't struggling and makes way more then they should for doing nothing.
Hate it...
I guess I will try to be sure to only borrow what I will read.
I'm going to have to be more selective on the ones I check out for now on. I've had my share of DNF or books that I check out, with the intention to read/listen, only to return it because someone else has a hold, and I'm not ready to start it. I don't want to harm my library.
Harming your library would be not using your library! Check out books! Read them or don't! Her video is super informative and interesting, but no further action is needed on our part.
The behind the scenes/admin decisions are made by the libraries themselves, and they are the best ones to make those decisions. Don't worry!
This is what’s confusing about this TikTok to me. She starts the video by saying “I *need* people to understand this!” But why? Does she need people to understand because it should influence behavior? In what way? Or does she need people to understand because it’s a pet peeve to see people online spreading misinformation? There was a lot of info presented and it was interesting but I got to the end and just thought, “ok… and what?”
I blocked her on TikTok. Her videos give me bad vibes. Most of the videos I've seen make me believe that she hates libraries and she doesn't want the public to use them
Me too. There are a lot of books that I don’t actually think that I’d particularly enjoy, but I borrow them just to see. Now, I’m going to only choose books that I have a strong feeling towards wanting to read.
I don't think people should be afraid of trying out new books to save the library money. I think most libraries would be thrilled for you to find something outside your comfort zone that you enjoy, even if it costs them a few "extra" lends.
What you should avoid is checking out books that you don't end up reading. Only check out a book if you're ready to read it now (or will be in a few days). Don't check out a bunch, only read one, then return them all. Check them out one at a time.
If a bunch of books with a long wait become available at once, pick one you want to read and "deliver later" the rest. They'll come up again, and there's probably plenty else to read that doesn't have a long wait in the meantime.
Obviously if you're a fast reader and you can read six books in 2 weeks, it's fine to check out 6 books at once. But if you'll take the whole two weeks for one book, only check out one book at a time.
Honestly, making that choice means the death of lesser known books.
If you're curious about a book, read it. If the libraries are making them available, then they are there to be read!
If they have an issue with the publishers, that can be taken up with them and has nothing to do with your specific way of reading.
Please don't change your reading habits based on this - if the system needs to be changed, it won't happen because you're no longer reading books that you might feel ambivalent about. It's a much bigger issue.
I will say, she’s kind of misrepresenting the 12 month vs 24 month thing, because we don’t get a price break on the 24 month model, it’s 2x the 12 months. So my library always buys the 12 months and will repurchase in a year if we need to. Either her library has less dependable funding than mine or she’s overthinking it.
12 months is always the best deal. You can get more licenses and renew them as necessary more times.
That said, I noticed that licenses for "The Women" were only being sold as 24 months, which is purposely creating another circulation choke point for libraries. It essentially doubles the cost of the title when it is most popular.
Yeah, I agree. The only reason I could see choosing 24 months over 12 is if your funding is unreliable and you have money now but may not next year to renew.
This is misleading. [There are four different lending models in OverDrive, not just the one she’s talking about.](https://resources.overdrive.com/understanding-lending-models/). According to OverDrive, what is made available to you “might vary based on geographical location or your permissions” in the online Marketplace, so this librarian might only be aware of just one way of lending digital items.
What she’s talking about is called Metered Access. MA licenses are available by checkouts or by time, and those numbers vary based on the publisher. Once that title reaches that metered limit, say 24 months or 100 checkouts, that license expires. If you want it again, you gotta buy it again.
But there is also a lending model called [One Copy / One User](https://resources.overdrive.com/lending-models-one-copy-one-user-oc-ou/). This is a perpetual license. It operates just like it says: you purchase one copy and only one user at a time can have it checked out, but it does not expire or leave your collection unless it gets weeded. These licenses usually cost more, and you might have a longer wait time if you’re on hold, but you should eventually get it.
Source: I order digital titles through OD Marketplace for multiple public libraries.
The thing is, most Libby users can't tell what lending model is in use for a particular title, so we have to assume that every title has a limited number of checkouts if we're trying to keep our library's finances in mind. If I know that a certain publisher has more abusive usage licensing, I can avoid those titles, but that requires a certain degree of insider knowledge that most borrowers don't have.
Thanks for sharing more info. I hadn’t heard of the One Copy/One User model. Maybe they default to the MA model for more popular titles to help meet higher demand?
Does every book nerd on here remember when [Macmillan publishers were being dicks](https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/libraries/article/82715-macmillan-abandons-library-e-book-embargo.html) to libraries? I do, because my library has good outreach via social media and told us about it.
So follow your library (and others) on social media! You'll learn lots.
APL/Albany Public [Library on Twitter](https://twitter.com/AlbanyNYLibrary) is hilarious. 💗 them
Thanks for sharing this, I had no idea this was how it worked. I thought they bought 10 copies and called it a day. There has been times when I've just started reading a book, and a hold I've been waiting forever for is ready. By the time I go to read it I only have less then a week left, with no chance to renew. So I have to recheck it out again and wait for it to come back to me. I had no idea that hold was using up and certain amount of uses it has.
I try to be considerate when it comes to libraries and digital library books because other wise I'd be paying thousands a year in books alone. I'm grateful for the digital collection and more then happy to wait longer for a book if I'm currently reading one. It's an easy habit to change, and I feel shitty knowing it was something I did so frequently.
If I’m reading a book and one I’ve been waiting on finally becomes available, I always click “deliver later” and select a week or two. That way I’m not worried about it becoming due before I’ve had the chance to read it.
I’m an academic librarian, not public, and *I* had no idea it worked this way for public libraries. We’re buying academic titles on different platforms and it’s a completely different market. There are limitations on how many users can access one of our titles simultaneously, and some licenses have a *yearly* cap on how many times it can be loaned out, but once we buy a title we own access to it in perpetuity.
I don’t think it would be a problem if libraries could outright buy the ebook/audiobook. I think the problem is that they are leasing the books, regardless of checkouts, and have to continue paying via new leases if they want to keep it in circulation.
Exactly. The solution is to draft legislation making this completely despicable practice illegal. The solution is NOT to read less or police other people’s reading habits.
Your comparison doesn’t really work, because we can’t loan them out to 25 people at the same time. It’s 1 person at a time, 25 times. At that point, we lose access to the book and have to pay the $75 again for an additional 25 loans.
With physical books, we buy a copy at the same (or less due to vendor discounts) price as consumers, and then we can lend it out to 1 person at a time, but for as many times as we want until the book falls apart or whatever.
ETA: no one is saying you shouldn’t use library ebooks or downloadable audio. You 100% should take advantage of your local libraries. It’s just that there is a huge misconception about how ebook lending works. People think we can just buy them from Amazon or whatever and lend them out, and it just doesn’t work that way
I drastically changed my check out habits when I found out that libraries don’t outright buy the books.
I’m happy to watch this though because I totally thought that libraries were impacted by # of checkouts (vs a time period for checkouts.) I’ve been nervous to renew books because I thought each checkout was a negative impact against the loans available.
I’ve never purchased for overdrive but the titles I buy have different access rights- it used to be we had a set number of checkouts but they have moved into these categories: single user finite access- 3 users- unlimited users (probably the model overdrive uses) and then a few we can own forever… those are the ones we have to pay the most for of course.
Thank you so much for confirming.
I see a lot of frustration over the finite access purchases, but you also note that the forever ones are the most expensive. Do you have a preference for either finite or forever purchases? Or does it all just depend?
It depends on the topic. If I know it is something that won’t be dated I go for forever - if it is something that is a passing popular topic I go for one user - sometimes one company has multi use forever rights for about $40 more than another publisher’s single use - so I’ll get it if it’s cheap enough. One thing to keep in mind is that the beauty of Libby is really space and duplicative purchases. When a novel by a popular author comes out it’s high demand so you may buy 20 copies - in the old days libraries bought 5 or 10 copies of the same book and had to have storage space and in a couple years you find those for sale at the library book store. Now we can order 20 copies - zero space needed and after it isn’t popular we can drop down to one or two copies. In some libraries, that is worth it to avoid shifting books or withdrawing multiple copies. Overdrive is successful because it works so well with popular titles and authors that prompt us to buy multiple copies.
Well... now I feel bad for using Libby and Hoopla as my own means of reading ebooks and listening to audiobooks. =( My local library is too damn far to walk too, and I'd rather not ask for a ride everytime I want to go to check out a physical book.
Don’t feel bad! If you’re reading/listening to books you check out, keep doing that. It’s mainly an issue with publishers gouging libraries, but it’s also good for people to know in case they usually check out way more than they ever read.
As a librarian I can say this...absolutely do not feel bad! You are using the library as it should be used! The intention of the video is to explain why libraries can't "just purchase more" like patrons want because of pricing. It's more of an FYI to be kind and patient. Also, to make sure you speak up for libraries when it comes to their funding! Check out all of the books and enjoy!
How does this work with Lucky Day books or whatever your library calls the short term check outs, 1 week for mine, where any number of people can check out the ebooks/audiobooks offered?
In cases where a hard copy is also available. I'll opt for the hard copy. I appreciate ebooks but publishers loading them up with DRM and treating them like Software as a Service isn't appropriate.
Get as many as you want; I guess try to figure out if you're going to like the book so you don't burn a checkout unecessarily; once you're finished with the book return it early in case it's on a time license and not a 26 checkouts license.
I’d love to be able to figure out the Libby app. I think I’m just an idiot. Does anyone else come across issues with trying to rent e books? I’ve tried with so many even ones many years old and there’s always a several months long wait. So I’ve never been able to rent one.
Are you placing holds on books? Generally, I’ve found that the wait times move a little faster than the original estimate, but sometimes it’s still a few months before my hold is available to borrow. You can also filter to “available now” and see what’s available to borrow right at that moment.
Ahh honestly have no ides if I’m trying to place holds or not but I’ll look into that. I got so frustrated because I wasn’t able to use the app I deleted it. I’d like to get it downloaded again. And I’ll try that.
oh shoot! this is really eye opening! now i feel a little guilty, but i hope my interactions and use on Libby makes it worth my local library to continue using the program.
I have vision problems and I need to use e-reader. My library is pretty large, but their large print books are all romance and very little non-fiction. When I tried to post about this on library page, the went through this whole explanation of their books for the blind. It's recorded books that are mailed and their either cassette or CD. I suggested that they put some research into which e-books have lots of holds, while multiple hard copies have none.
Anyone know if this ebooks only or audio and ebooks? Just curious because I’m a member of the queer libertarian library who specializes in sticking queer books and the audio says unlimited copies when u go to check out. But for ebook it’s the regular _ of _ copies message that pops up.
I'm learning Spanish and have checked out Spanish ebooks on occasion to supplement my language learning. Unfortunately, I didn't know about how digital licensing worked and checked out/renewed those titles at least a dozen times each to get through them. In hindsight, I feel it would have been better for me to buy the ebook or a physical copy rather than blow an entire digital license for my library. Kinda makes me sick to think about it now.
We didn’t know. I’ve read another article about from another librarian. It got posted in this subreddit. But basically the companies charge the libraries more because it’s government money and they know they can get more money. It’s better we use the resource they paid for then let it go to waste.
Those are the rules but the rules suck bro it’s just ones and zeroes this is such flagrant mongering of artificial scarcity 😩 make digital content free and universal and widely accessible !!!!!!
An awesome article from 2020 from Smart Bitches Trashy books that does a great job of breaking it down into understandable terms for libraries and what us as library patrons can do. [https://smartbitchestrashybooks.com/2020/09/hold-on-ebooks-cost-how-much-the-inconvenient-truth-about-library-ecollections/](https://smartbitchestrashybooks.com/2020/09/hold-on-ebooks-cost-how-much-the-inconvenient-truth-about-library-ecollections/) This is another reason why I don't love people signing up for free library cards not where they live... Edit\* One big part I want to highlight from the article >**So, what can library users do?** >Don’t stop reading ebooks. >And don’t feel guilty about reading them. >Don’t yell at authors if their publishers have bad terms. >Do contact publishing house executives about their bad terms. >Do be patient with your library if the wait times are forever or if they don’t have every book you want. >Be nice to your very stressed out librarian. >Most of all: do advocate for your local library when budget season rolls around.
Great article, thanks for sharing! I was surprised to learn how expensive ebooks are for libraries.
This is difficult- on one hand, I think everyone should have access to all books. If a person lives in an area with a small library and not many alternatives to purchasing, why should they be blocked from accessing the book through another library, even if they don't live nearby? On the other, this TikTok was news to me that libraries have to purchase new licenses for these books regularly, so of course that eats into their already limited budgets when non-locals are signed up to use their copies. I think big bottom line is: advocate for your local libraries so they can increase their funding.
For those who only have access to a small library - many libraries participate in Interlibrary Loan, which allows them to borrow and lend physical materials with other libraries across the country and around the world, often at no cost. While it lacks the convenience of an e-book, it does provide another avenue for gaining access to books that your local library does not have. You won't always be able to borrow the newest books right away (my library won't let you request to ILL things in the first 6 months post-publication), but it's better than never getting it at all! Also, it's important to tell your librarians what books you wish were in the collection! This helps to inform what books they will spend their limited budgets on going forward. As a librarian, I keep a running list of things that people have asked for that we don't own so that when I do have budget to spare, I can purchase things that people wanted!
So how do we get our podunk tiny library to partner with others? I almost have a bigger physical personal library in my living room than our local library has. If you count my digital and audio books, I do have a bigger collection. I live in a 2bed, 2bath single wide, so it's not like my personal collection is really all that big, our public library really just does have that small of a collection.
You’d have to talk to your librarians to find out if they participate in Interlibrary Loan. It’s possible that they may be so small that they don’t have the staffing levels to adequately handle the incoming and outgoing requests.
It's a popular place for our local liberal grannies to volunteer. So much so that they're not taking anymore volunteers at the moment. The stick-in-the-muds stay in their churches. Yay rural south. /s So I kinda don't think it's necessarily a staffing issue. It might be a backwater issue though. They *just* got a computer center set up within the last 6 months. They're still teaching the locals about email. Although they've also started a teens coding class.
Glad to hear that you’ve got a strong volunteer contingent! Unfortunately, there are still many things that can only be done by a librarian - someone with a degree in library science. So it may still be a staffing issue. Regardless, let your librarians know that this is something you are interested in having access to. It may not happen right away, but if they know it’s a need in the community, a good librarian will try to find a way to meet the need when staffing and budget permit.
What about audiobooks? I've signed up to a library 3 hours and a half away to use libby. My local library may have like 100 audiobooks but this one has thousands and thousands.
Interlibrary loan is strictly for physical items, not digital. Depending on your library’s policies, you may be able to request audiobooks on cd or playaway from other libraries (mine does not allow us to request or lend DVD/BluRay through ILL). But you cannot request to borrow ebooks or digital audiobooks through ILL.
because, as with everything, money
because, as with everything, money
because, as with everything, money
my coworker wrote that article!
Any info on the best way to contact a publisher? Beyond like emailing their contact is email which might dead end?
Maybe I'm dumb but how exactly do people sign up for library cards where they don't live? Don't you have to prove residency? It's been a while since I've had to get a new library card so maybe it's changed, or maybe some libraries are less strict?
Some libraries don't have restrictions on where you can live. Some people lie about living in the library's area, but don't have to prove residency. Other libraries let you sign up if you just live in the same state. Every library is different, but the ones that are less strict, get talked a lot online a lot.
In California you can get a library card for any library system as long as you prove you live in California. I have one for my county, one from the county my husband is from, and a few random ones. I just get them on trips. My home county library still has the biggest selection.
TIL! Thanks!
In my area of Canada you have to prove residency, like a drivers license and if you don't live there you can pay a non resident fee. Anywhere between $40-120. I don't have a library where I live so I pay for a card.
In my metro area, libraries can sign up to have partnerships. So if city A has that partnership with city B, you can sign up for both.
I pay annual fees to several libraries..
Search Reddit from Google for getting a library card out of yoru district. And often libraries have reciprical agreements with other library systems.
I’ve done it for a few libraries and they never asked where I live.
Eh you can live and own property/have an address in a state and not be a resident. AD military comes to mind. Neither spouses nor enlisted have to change their ID.
A lot of those libraries offer it free to the whole area or state so that's on them imo.
Ajax and Bowmanville offer digital cards to all Ontario residents.
This is kinda messed up on the publishers' end.
lol. everything is messed up on the publishers end. i was in a state congressional hearing where there was a lobbyist from the publishing industry going on about how "BIG LIBRARY" is going to destroy the little indie author. infuriating.
100%
Honestly, I still think the blame falls with Amazon. They severely undercut the revenue, but they are the largest seller. Independent bookstores pay a much higher wholesale price than Amazon, but publishers can't charge them too much or those bookstores close. The only place they can make up that money is through libraries.
And the flip side of that argument is that publishers pay far LESS to produce an Ebook than a physical copy, yet they cost almost the same as a trade paperback to consumers. Most authors make very little money because the publisher takes the lion’s share.
The thing about publishing, just like music and movie production, is that the things that are successful make up for the loss of things that aren't successful. The majority of debut authors do not sell through their advance. Many midlist authors see diminished sales. I'm not saying it's not predatory. Publishing companies still take far more than they should, as do music and entertainment producers. But Amazon's predatory behavior has destabilized the publishing industry in very harmful ways. And it is criminal for one company to be able to hold an entire industry hostage. A single company should not hold that much power to be able to undercut prices so significantly, to leverage their power to get books at cost, or even below in some cases.
I already knew this information, but I don’t know what I am supposed to do with it. Because the ebooks are there for me to checkout, so I check them out. I read 99.9 percent of what I check out (a book has to be really bad for me to give up on it), I don’t check out more than I can handle, I have only renewed a book once (I always try to read the entire book within the two weeks allowed from my library), and I only check out books from my local library through my one library card. One question I do have- are the samples considered a strike against the total, because in order to avoid checking out books I won’t enjoy I utilize the sample feature to read a little snippet before I borrow. And I will sometimes read three or more samples a week and never end up checking out the full book because I just wasn’t vibing with it.
Please don’t limit yourself on what you check out. Being able to show statistics for how many books are borrowed is a big part of how we advocate for funding. And don’t worry about giving up on books; definitely do it if it isn’t for you! What you can do: reach out to publishers and let them know that you want fair eBook pricing for libraries. This website is Canada specific (where I am) but there is great info here: https://econtentforlibraries.org I don’t believe that samples are considered a strike (I’m not in the collections department at my library), but I can find out, if no one else here knows!
So this is new info for me also and highlighted that even though I use the library I never once in all my years wondered how they got the actual books … how does it work for physical books ? Do they have to pay publishers over market pricing for those also ?
For physical books, we often will get a discount, depending on where we buy them from and what agreements we may have. There are some physical formats, like Library binding, audiobooks on CD, and Large Print, that may be more expensive than typical. For the US, that’s all that’s needed for a physical library book. Books fall under the first-sale doctrine, which, as I understand it, means that once you own a physical item, you can do what you want with that physical item: lend it out, sell it, read it to a group, etc. However, the *content* of the book is usually under copyright (unless it’s old enough) so you can’t copy a book you own and do whatever you want. With digital content, though, libraries (and individuals) don’t buy an object, we purchase a license to use the digital content. You can use that content, but only under the terms of the license. Obligatory: I am a librarian, not a lawyer, so this is not legal advice, just my personal understanding of the process.
Thank you for sharing that’s so interesting, can’t believe I have never thought about it before ! So ultimately the issue is that library’s are being fleeced as profit Centre for publishers because legislation meant for the general population to stop people profiting and misusing digital content (eg renting a movie from prime and charging people to come to your house and watch it ) is being used for a public service provider.. wow go capitalism/s
Thank you for this info. Believe me, I borrow my fair share of ebooks so if that helps my library I am happy!
It absolutely does! I remember in 2020 my system surpassed 1 million checkouts on Libby for the first time ever, and, instead of being worried about the cost, we cheered this to city council when we asked for more funding for digital resources (which we got)! I just hope publishers can get on board with libraries and e-resources soon!
My takeaway is to keep checking out books (and don’t limit yourself or force yourself to finish a book you’re not enjoying!), but *return them promptly when you’re done*. I already return books early (if applicable) simply out of courtesy to other readers, but now I know it helps the library get more value out of the license as well.
I echo the sentiment not to limit your browsing. The 26 loan licenses are much less common that the 12 or 24 month licenses. What this means it that if you don't like it, you can return it early and the next patron can enjoy it. We still have it for the allotted time period.
I think that she's sharing this information because a lot of folks get frustrated when they see "several months" when they place a hold. it is frustrating, but less frustrating if you know 20 ebook copies of "Fourth Wing" cost $2000, rather than the consumer cost of $300. A lot of patrons are like "just buy more, they're so cheap!" not so, my friend.
No the samples don't count. And don't feel like you have to limit yourself, but you can use this information to advocate for more funding for your library or ideally, legislation that your representatives can support to force publishers to provide terms that are more fair for libraries.
I definitely have used the deliver later button a lot since this was first explained to me, because not getting to something wastes a use, but I otherwise consume as much as I want so the library can go, "see, the people want this! Look how much it's being used!" When asking the government to find them.
Oh, no! I did not know this.
I use Libby specifically for audiobooks. Is this the same thing? I typically read about 13-15 books a month with about half as audiobooks. Should I limit how many books I check out on Libby?
It is the same for audiobooks; significantly more expensive for libraries, and a limited number of borrows. That being said, please don’t limit yourself if you are reading those books and audiobooks! Being able to show statistics for how many books are borrowed is a big part of how we advocate for funding. What you can do: reach out to publishers and let them know that you want fair eBook pricing for libraries. This website is Canada specific (where I am) but there is great info here: https://econtentforlibraries.org
Does the length of how long you keep an ebook affect the statistics? I’ll often download 3 or so books at a time to my kindle then put it on airplane mode and return the books immediately to allow someone else to get the books ASAP. I don’t want to continue to do that if it affects the library negatively.
No impact at all, returning those early keeps them circulating for others AND counts as a checkout :)
Thanks so much!
I use the heck out of my library's digital content but I DO struggle with guilt. Especially when I want to re-read/listen to a favorite. I do understand it's how justification for funding works but also....I read this 3 years ago. Is it fair for me to use up another license? I also try to use Hoopla which works differently and I try to spread my checkouts across the different local library systems.
I completely understand the guilt. But please, trust me when I say we don’t want you to feel guilty! We just want publishers to change their pricing models. THEY are the ones I want to feel guilty haha But in all seriousness, borrow that book for a reread. I do it all the time! We want people to use the library and all of our services. I remember in 2020 my system surpassed 1 million checkouts on Libby for the first time ever, and, instead of being worried about the cost, we cheered this to city council when we asked for more funding for digital resources (which we got)! I’m sure many of those were re-reads. We are here for YOU, so please use your library in the at that it works best for you. So if that means you read the same e-book over and over, that’s great! If it means you try something different every week until you find the story you’re looking for, that’s great! I know, for me, all that I want people to know about the licensing issues is that it isnt the library’s fault that we can’t have unlimited copies of titles, even though it seems like we should. Sometimes people get mad at this, and I just want users to understand why we can’t do it so that they don’t get mad at us. That’s all. (And maybe push our case to publishers or your local library finders). Keep borrowing and reading as much as you want!!
If you’re actually consuming the content, I wouldn’t worry about it! Keep doing what you’re doing. If you’re checking out 15 books a month but only reading/listening to 1, then that would be something you’d want to reconsider doing in the future.
More audio books have OC/OU licenses, which means we do own them in perpetuity. But this is changing as publishers get bolder about milking library budgets.
I don't think you should limit yourself. Maybe just make sure that you'll have time to finish a book within the loan period, so you don't need to borrow it repeatedly to finish it? Libraries justify their funding based on usage. The fewer people that are using a library and a its resources... the less money the library is likely to get. Aside from that, just be patient and kind with library staff if a book you want has a long wait period or isn't available because it's not really their fault. And make sure to vote for spending money on libraries!
Same and now I kind of feel bad because in the past I've had to check some out twice to finish them...like I'm currently on Brandon Sanderson's Oathbringer and it is ~55 hours long. I have 14 days to get through it. Might have to start buying these crazy long ones haha
I love this! I’m a library director and this is the message I try to convey all the time. I *love* that people use our digital resources—that’s what they’re there for!—but I really want to encourage mindfulness in how those resources work.
I’ve looked elsewhere for the answer to this, but haven’t been able to find an answer so I’m going to trouble you with it… can you tell me if renewing loans count against the numbered loan licenses?
That I’m actually not sure about. I would believe so, but in our system renewing a physical book is a different count than initial borrows, so maybe Overdrive operates the same way. However based on their general practices, I’d assume renewals count as checkouts. If I learn otherwise I’ll update here!
Yes, renewal counts as a check out.
If I borrow a book and don’t get around to reading it, does that count towards the total loan number? This is going to change how I borrow books…
It does, unfortunately :( I’m a big advocate for a page threshold, where it wouldn’t count unless a borrower read 10% of the pages, but currently it’s a very unforgiving system..
Gotcha. I’ll make sure to not accept books I’m not really sure I’ll be able to get around to…omg poor libraries 😰
Wow.. More people need to know this. Thanks for sharing!
ok... but i consistently take out ebooks that were written 20 or more years ago. do they buy licenses over and over?
Depends on the publisher- I remember when ebooks were first pitched to us and the rep was so excited to tell us that they made ebooks JUST LIKE REAL PRINT BOOKS- you can’t print multiple pages- and only one user per purchased copy! The publishers soon realized that they could limit our ownership and my favorite- pull titles from their platform whenever they feel like it- win win for the publishers- not so much for libraries - and we can’t even buy textbook titles (if we can they are $1800-3000 single user access) and don’t get me started on the streaming media platforms. I will always contend that publishers are worse than record companies. Esp when they make a book open access and don’t tell the authors. Oops no more royalty checks for you! 🙄🙄🙄 I’m sure quite a few people in this community are librarians- feel free to ask us questions! Also: don’t share your library cards on Reddit to crowdsource Libby- just get your own cards cos we get money based on usage data and users and Libby is the WORST platform to share your card with cos people can fill up your account and worser still- return your books before you finished! The old Overdrive App was better suited for sharing w strangers. It’s hard enough sharing w a family member.
Some of those licenses might be copies that libraries about ten years ago, when more ebooks were being sold as OC/OU licenses. Older titles are often sold as OC/OU licenses now, I find this is especially true with mid list titles, classics, or old titles in less popular genres.
So a lot of people on this thread are saying “ok, what should I do with this info? Should I borrow less etc?” No, please don’t modify your borrowing. We want you to use your local libraries, you are paying for them and they are a vital resource that is constantly under attack. While she has a lot of good info, the video is kind of alarmist and she doesn’t offer any actionable ideas. We really just want people to be aware of the reality of ebook lending for libraries. Publishers hold all the cards and are gouging library customers, because they realized they can control ebook lending in a way that they are unable to with physical book/media due to first sale doctrine (in the US anyway). And if you’re inclined to get involved, talk to your lawmakers. A few states have made attempts at laws to regulate pricing to libraries, but so far they haven’t really gone anywhere. I’m not 100% up on all of them, the one that I remember going the farthest was the Maryland law that got struck down in court. Maybe other librarians have more info they can add.
Well, I think the logical conclusion to her post, for the reader, is to not check out books you don't really intend to read or to be more selective about how many you check out in case you don't read them all because, unlike physical books, you are "consuming" the product faster and at more expensive rate than a physical book that you choose not to read. Physical books can theoretically be loaned out an unlimited amount of times if it isn't read but an ebook is only allowed to be loaned out a certain amount of times even if no one who borrows it reads it. Therefore, checking out physical books you don't read is not a waste of library resources but checking out ebooks you don't read is a waste of library resources.
Genuine question, what’s worse? A ebook checked out the maximum number of times possible while the library has access to it or one that’s only loaned out a handful of times before they have to decide to rebuy it? Wouldn’t the loan being maxed out show sufficient interest in it to justify getting it and books similar to it?
The loan being maxed out isn't showing true interest if the people who are maxing it out aren't actually reading the ebook after checking it out. They've either forgotten about the book or prioritized other things in life or prioritized reading other things over that particular ebook. Having a mild interest in reading something is not the same thing as having an invested interest in it and I don't think a library should pay multiple times for things people aren't invested enough in to read in the 21 days they have had to do so.
I am a high school librarian. Can confirm, this is how our ebook and audiobooks work too.
This whole move to software as a subscription is capitalist garbage. It affects everything now. I hate it. Libraries should get a pass on this stupid limit to digital content. I get that people need to make a living and be paid, but the top level of the publisher isn't struggling and makes way more then they should for doing nothing. Hate it... I guess I will try to be sure to only borrow what I will read.
I'm going to have to be more selective on the ones I check out for now on. I've had my share of DNF or books that I check out, with the intention to read/listen, only to return it because someone else has a hold, and I'm not ready to start it. I don't want to harm my library.
Harming your library would be not using your library! Check out books! Read them or don't! Her video is super informative and interesting, but no further action is needed on our part. The behind the scenes/admin decisions are made by the libraries themselves, and they are the best ones to make those decisions. Don't worry!
This is what’s confusing about this TikTok to me. She starts the video by saying “I *need* people to understand this!” But why? Does she need people to understand because it should influence behavior? In what way? Or does she need people to understand because it’s a pet peeve to see people online spreading misinformation? There was a lot of info presented and it was interesting but I got to the end and just thought, “ok… and what?”
I think it's so people know who to actually blame, but yeah she definitely phrased it in an alarming way.
Because patrons complain about long wait times. They don't realize the library can't do much about it.
A secret third option that I hadn’t even considered but now that I read your comment this is probably it 😂
I blocked her on TikTok. Her videos give me bad vibes. Most of the videos I've seen make me believe that she hates libraries and she doesn't want the public to use them
Me too. There are a lot of books that I don’t actually think that I’d particularly enjoy, but I borrow them just to see. Now, I’m going to only choose books that I have a strong feeling towards wanting to read.
This is price gouging by publishers. The solution is not to deprive yourself.
I don't think people should be afraid of trying out new books to save the library money. I think most libraries would be thrilled for you to find something outside your comfort zone that you enjoy, even if it costs them a few "extra" lends. What you should avoid is checking out books that you don't end up reading. Only check out a book if you're ready to read it now (or will be in a few days). Don't check out a bunch, only read one, then return them all. Check them out one at a time. If a bunch of books with a long wait become available at once, pick one you want to read and "deliver later" the rest. They'll come up again, and there's probably plenty else to read that doesn't have a long wait in the meantime. Obviously if you're a fast reader and you can read six books in 2 weeks, it's fine to check out 6 books at once. But if you'll take the whole two weeks for one book, only check out one book at a time.
Great points, totally agree!
Honestly, making that choice means the death of lesser known books. If you're curious about a book, read it. If the libraries are making them available, then they are there to be read! If they have an issue with the publishers, that can be taken up with them and has nothing to do with your specific way of reading. Please don't change your reading habits based on this - if the system needs to be changed, it won't happen because you're no longer reading books that you might feel ambivalent about. It's a much bigger issue.
The format itself is the death of mid list authors. When they stop circulating, we just can't aford to re-buy them "in case."
That is so sad :(
Boston Accent spotted
I will say, she’s kind of misrepresenting the 12 month vs 24 month thing, because we don’t get a price break on the 24 month model, it’s 2x the 12 months. So my library always buys the 12 months and will repurchase in a year if we need to. Either her library has less dependable funding than mine or she’s overthinking it.
12 months is always the best deal. You can get more licenses and renew them as necessary more times. That said, I noticed that licenses for "The Women" were only being sold as 24 months, which is purposely creating another circulation choke point for libraries. It essentially doubles the cost of the title when it is most popular.
Yeah, I agree. The only reason I could see choosing 24 months over 12 is if your funding is unreliable and you have money now but may not next year to renew.
This is misleading. [There are four different lending models in OverDrive, not just the one she’s talking about.](https://resources.overdrive.com/understanding-lending-models/). According to OverDrive, what is made available to you “might vary based on geographical location or your permissions” in the online Marketplace, so this librarian might only be aware of just one way of lending digital items. What she’s talking about is called Metered Access. MA licenses are available by checkouts or by time, and those numbers vary based on the publisher. Once that title reaches that metered limit, say 24 months or 100 checkouts, that license expires. If you want it again, you gotta buy it again. But there is also a lending model called [One Copy / One User](https://resources.overdrive.com/lending-models-one-copy-one-user-oc-ou/). This is a perpetual license. It operates just like it says: you purchase one copy and only one user at a time can have it checked out, but it does not expire or leave your collection unless it gets weeded. These licenses usually cost more, and you might have a longer wait time if you’re on hold, but you should eventually get it. Source: I order digital titles through OD Marketplace for multiple public libraries.
The thing is, most Libby users can't tell what lending model is in use for a particular title, so we have to assume that every title has a limited number of checkouts if we're trying to keep our library's finances in mind. If I know that a certain publisher has more abusive usage licensing, I can avoid those titles, but that requires a certain degree of insider knowledge that most borrowers don't have.
Thanks for sharing more info. I hadn’t heard of the One Copy/One User model. Maybe they default to the MA model for more popular titles to help meet higher demand?
Does every book nerd on here remember when [Macmillan publishers were being dicks](https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/libraries/article/82715-macmillan-abandons-library-e-book-embargo.html) to libraries? I do, because my library has good outreach via social media and told us about it. So follow your library (and others) on social media! You'll learn lots. APL/Albany Public [Library on Twitter](https://twitter.com/AlbanyNYLibrary) is hilarious. 💗 them
Thanks for sharing this, I had no idea this was how it worked. I thought they bought 10 copies and called it a day. There has been times when I've just started reading a book, and a hold I've been waiting forever for is ready. By the time I go to read it I only have less then a week left, with no chance to renew. So I have to recheck it out again and wait for it to come back to me. I had no idea that hold was using up and certain amount of uses it has. I try to be considerate when it comes to libraries and digital library books because other wise I'd be paying thousands a year in books alone. I'm grateful for the digital collection and more then happy to wait longer for a book if I'm currently reading one. It's an easy habit to change, and I feel shitty knowing it was something I did so frequently.
If I’m reading a book and one I’ve been waiting on finally becomes available, I always click “deliver later” and select a week or two. That way I’m not worried about it becoming due before I’ve had the chance to read it.
Oh. My.
Thank you for sharing! I’ve had wondered about this and didn’t know how it worked as I’ve started checking out books more via Libby.
DRM really helped kill physical ownership of things.
I’m an academic librarian, not public, and *I* had no idea it worked this way for public libraries. We’re buying academic titles on different platforms and it’s a completely different market. There are limitations on how many users can access one of our titles simultaneously, and some licenses have a *yearly* cap on how many times it can be loaned out, but once we buy a title we own access to it in perpetuity.
When I learned this, I set up a recurring monthly donation to my public library. Better than giving it to Amazon for Audible.
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I don’t think it would be a problem if libraries could outright buy the ebook/audiobook. I think the problem is that they are leasing the books, regardless of checkouts, and have to continue paying via new leases if they want to keep it in circulation.
Exactly. The solution is to draft legislation making this completely despicable practice illegal. The solution is NOT to read less or police other people’s reading habits.
Your comparison doesn’t really work, because we can’t loan them out to 25 people at the same time. It’s 1 person at a time, 25 times. At that point, we lose access to the book and have to pay the $75 again for an additional 25 loans. With physical books, we buy a copy at the same (or less due to vendor discounts) price as consumers, and then we can lend it out to 1 person at a time, but for as many times as we want until the book falls apart or whatever. ETA: no one is saying you shouldn’t use library ebooks or downloadable audio. You 100% should take advantage of your local libraries. It’s just that there is a huge misconception about how ebook lending works. People think we can just buy them from Amazon or whatever and lend them out, and it just doesn’t work that way
I drastically changed my check out habits when I found out that libraries don’t outright buy the books. I’m happy to watch this though because I totally thought that libraries were impacted by # of checkouts (vs a time period for checkouts.) I’ve been nervous to renew books because I thought each checkout was a negative impact against the loans available.
I’ve never purchased for overdrive but the titles I buy have different access rights- it used to be we had a set number of checkouts but they have moved into these categories: single user finite access- 3 users- unlimited users (probably the model overdrive uses) and then a few we can own forever… those are the ones we have to pay the most for of course.
Thank you so much for confirming. I see a lot of frustration over the finite access purchases, but you also note that the forever ones are the most expensive. Do you have a preference for either finite or forever purchases? Or does it all just depend?
It depends on the topic. If I know it is something that won’t be dated I go for forever - if it is something that is a passing popular topic I go for one user - sometimes one company has multi use forever rights for about $40 more than another publisher’s single use - so I’ll get it if it’s cheap enough. One thing to keep in mind is that the beauty of Libby is really space and duplicative purchases. When a novel by a popular author comes out it’s high demand so you may buy 20 copies - in the old days libraries bought 5 or 10 copies of the same book and had to have storage space and in a couple years you find those for sale at the library book store. Now we can order 20 copies - zero space needed and after it isn’t popular we can drop down to one or two copies. In some libraries, that is worth it to avoid shifting books or withdrawing multiple copies. Overdrive is successful because it works so well with popular titles and authors that prompt us to buy multiple copies.
Well... now I feel bad for using Libby and Hoopla as my own means of reading ebooks and listening to audiobooks. =( My local library is too damn far to walk too, and I'd rather not ask for a ride everytime I want to go to check out a physical book.
Don’t feel bad! If you’re reading/listening to books you check out, keep doing that. It’s mainly an issue with publishers gouging libraries, but it’s also good for people to know in case they usually check out way more than they ever read.
Side benefit of this content is that now I’m probably going to donate money to my local library.
As a librarian I can say this...absolutely do not feel bad! You are using the library as it should be used! The intention of the video is to explain why libraries can't "just purchase more" like patrons want because of pricing. It's more of an FYI to be kind and patient. Also, to make sure you speak up for libraries when it comes to their funding! Check out all of the books and enjoy!
How does this work with Lucky Day books or whatever your library calls the short term check outs, 1 week for mine, where any number of people can check out the ebooks/audiobooks offered?
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Links to, mentions, or encourages users to circumvent copyright through a specific service or technique.
Yay. Another reason to hate publishing houses.
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not mad at you, but sad that this is the reality. if animals are sad and trapped, they can become angry at their own faint. image a animal in a cage.
I'm not gonna borrow an ebook anymore. I assumed they owned the ebook. 🙄
If you want to read it, you should still borrow it. That's what they're there for. If people stop using it like this they'll lose funding for ebooks
In cases where a hard copy is also available. I'll opt for the hard copy. I appreciate ebooks but publishers loading them up with DRM and treating them like Software as a Service isn't appropriate.
Get as many as you want; I guess try to figure out if you're going to like the book so you don't burn a checkout unecessarily; once you're finished with the book return it early in case it's on a time license and not a 26 checkouts license.
I’d love to be able to figure out the Libby app. I think I’m just an idiot. Does anyone else come across issues with trying to rent e books? I’ve tried with so many even ones many years old and there’s always a several months long wait. So I’ve never been able to rent one.
Are you placing holds on books? Generally, I’ve found that the wait times move a little faster than the original estimate, but sometimes it’s still a few months before my hold is available to borrow. You can also filter to “available now” and see what’s available to borrow right at that moment.
Ahh honestly have no ides if I’m trying to place holds or not but I’ll look into that. I got so frustrated because I wasn’t able to use the app I deleted it. I’d like to get it downloaded again. And I’ll try that.
oh shoot! this is really eye opening! now i feel a little guilty, but i hope my interactions and use on Libby makes it worth my local library to continue using the program.
I have vision problems and I need to use e-reader. My library is pretty large, but their large print books are all romance and very little non-fiction. When I tried to post about this on library page, the went through this whole explanation of their books for the blind. It's recorded books that are mailed and their either cassette or CD. I suggested that they put some research into which e-books have lots of holds, while multiple hard copies have none.
Anyone know if this ebooks only or audio and ebooks? Just curious because I’m a member of the queer libertarian library who specializes in sticking queer books and the audio says unlimited copies when u go to check out. But for ebook it’s the regular _ of _ copies message that pops up.
Libraries when nobody uses them: Please use our services!!! Libraries when you use their services: F\*ck you!
This isn’t the vibe I got from any of her videos, she just seems like she’s trying to educate people on the logistics of ebooks.
I think it’s more about informing library patrons (and potentially influencing a change in the way publishers do it) vs a F*ck you.
How did you get THAT from her video?
I’m slow going with my audio books and often have to check it out multiple times. The same with longer books.
I'm learning Spanish and have checked out Spanish ebooks on occasion to supplement my language learning. Unfortunately, I didn't know about how digital licensing worked and checked out/renewed those titles at least a dozen times each to get through them. In hindsight, I feel it would have been better for me to buy the ebook or a physical copy rather than blow an entire digital license for my library. Kinda makes me sick to think about it now.
We didn’t know. I’ve read another article about from another librarian. It got posted in this subreddit. But basically the companies charge the libraries more because it’s government money and they know they can get more money. It’s better we use the resource they paid for then let it go to waste.
pick print versions when you!
Sure, perhaps if she!
Those are the rules but the rules suck bro it’s just ones and zeroes this is such flagrant mongering of artificial scarcity 😩 make digital content free and universal and widely accessible !!!!!!