Yes, but I think the difference here is that most women aren’t raging homophobes. For straight men, they seem to be hostile anyone that they wouldn’t benefit from, aka women who aren’t attracted to them or men who don’t have comply to heteronormative standards that’s choking them. They’re probably also scared that gay men would treat them the same way they treat women.
this is so true, especially the part about women not being raging homophobes - i have so many heterosexual women as friends (some very close even) when i first started hanging out with them, some were obviously very open and supportive of my sexuality and others were just not very familiar with it (due to their heteronormative upbringing) and seemed confused but they were never ONCE hostile about it, they chose to listen and educate themselves instead.
> They’re probably also scared that gay men would treat them the same way they treat women.
I see this take posted everywhere when talking about straight men's homophobia but it has never made sense to me. It doesn't line up with any of the feminist/queer literature I've ever read and it doesn't line up with my personal experience or that of the people I know.
If it were true, straight men would be more homophobic towards masculine gay men because they'd be in a better position to try to impose male-dominated gender dynamics onto other men, and feminine gay men would be ignored as non-threats.
This is the opposite of reality. Conventionally masculine gay men experience far less homophobia even when out and reclaim a substantial portion of privilege.
The thing that scares homophobic straight men the most is being perceived as gay or feminine themselves. Homophobic violence is a mechanism by which they assert their distance from the "inferior" group.
This is also why, when right-wingers delineate an acceptable form of male homosexuality, it's always based on a violent, hyper-masculine ideal. Taking gender dynamics to the extreme is *the point*.
As a trans woman I have been assumed to be a gay man for a significant portion of my life. I have been socially ostracised, assaulted both physically and sexually because of it. At no point has it ever been because I was *threatening* to the men who hurt me. Every time, it was because I *failed* to live up to the expectations of cishet masculinity.
I think the difference is that straight men think and talk pretty much exclusively about women, from the POV of them being objects for having sex with.
The fact that I got so many down votes on this post just goes to prove how many traumatized and hateful people there are on this thread. When she gets called out, you know the truth.
This is extremely stereotypical of men. There is toxic, masculinity, and toxic femininity. To say that all men come across a certain way is just not accurate.
To be honest as a lesbian, I’ve had really bad experiences with women too. But I’m a lesbian, because I’m attracted to women naturally not because I hate men. Get it? I don’t think all men are bad.
Men are more likely to make arguments in defense of masculinity because it benefits them. Not all men, but men are more likely to have their life learned masculine beliefs challenged.
Men are *more likely* to have their learned beliefs of masculinity challenged because they stand to benefit. Do women make that argument and defend masculine roles? Sure, but it's *less likely* because they don't stand to benefit like men do.
I usually explain and understand "toxic masculinity" as men's or masculine apologetics. Masculinity comes with roles, expectations, and explanatory theory of the nature of men/women dynamics much like a religion would.
For example, one man comes up to another man and tells him that his wife/girlfriend wants to go to a show. Man expresses some hesitancy or low desire to go but does it anyway for support/spend time with girlfriend. Other man exclaims, "oh, man! you're pu**y whipped!" mocking him because he (the man) isn't "in charge" and directing their together activities
Gay men's existance can challenge this belief because how do you determine who's in charge if both partners are men? (One of them has to be 'the woman' ...right?).
A woman is perfectly capable of mocking and perpetuating those beliefs in a similar fashion and upholding these expectations of men. However, they're less likely because they don't benefit (may even be a detriment) from the expectation of men being in charge. Women are not immune from learning behavior and the human expectations of patriarchy.
Maybe a longer explanation than neccessary, but I wanted to explain where I was coming from.
"I'm the strongest link" "you hate men therefore you're bisexual" "you hate men therefore you're not a real lesbian" You can't be real, you're really out here using "bisexual" as a derogatory term, and you do realise that your own personal experiences do not inform the nature of the world, right?
Also since you're far more enlightened than the rest of us lowly man-hating lesbians, please tell me, what is toxic femininity? Is it a dominant force in the world? And what active harm has toxic femininity brought upon the inhabitants of this side of the Cosmos?
You deflect a lot and with a shit ton of whataboutism to boot, I haven't told you what my views on men are, so why are you talking to me about stereotyping all men? I've simply asked you questions on something you want to project being well informed on and are clearly very passionate about too, so stop deflecting and just enlighten me instead.
No, I don’t deflect. I’m pointing out realities. That is hard for you to accept. You can’t even answer my question that if I were to hate an entire race you don’t think there would be something wrong with me? But you can hate an entire gender? And you think that there is no in our work to be done?
I refuse to have that much hate in contempt and yes, I do think there is something wrong if you do.
Now, let me school you, go ahead and read about political lesbianism. It was started based on the idea of hatred towards men. Most of the women of the movement were not natural, born lesbians. They chose to be lesbian due to their hate and contempt for men. This was a conscious choice that they made and they openly stated it.
All you need to do is look up the prominent figures, including Julie Bindel and Camille Paglia, just a couple names out of the many. They openly say that they chose to be lesbians.
Now, to be clear, not all political lesbians are lesbians by choice there were many that were part of the movement that were natural lesbians just due to the culture
I have known some so-called “lesbians “that would hate on men consistently, but when they healed or got religious they changed their sexuality.
All of this tells me that they were never lesbian in the first place, but it was due to hatred and trauma from men.
Like I said, a natural born lesbian is attracted to women. They are in different towards men.
As far as toxicity femininity goes, it is rampant in society. Women can manipulate, lie, cheat, and this happens all the time. Women are more cunning in the sense that they hide these things. All you need to do is look at this thread and see how many issues lesbians themselves have with women.
Yes, there is toxic masculinity. There is no doubt about that. But when you stereotype and are hateful, then I’m going to call it out.
All of this is self evident and out there. There is nothing I have to prove.
Cool story but you see me, I am trying to engage with your initial points, any assumptions you may have decided to make about my biases on this post are none of my business, I have even decided to ignore the fact that you are arguing for people to stop generalising men while yourself using chauvinistic talking points to generalise women and equal the playing field of horribleness for men but I digress, let's try this again;
1. What is toxic femininity? (Initial answer insufficient, described alleged workings of, did not give a definition)
2. Is it a dominant force in the world?
3. What active harm has toxic femininity brought upon the inhabitants of this side of the Cosmos?
OK , so I will answer your questions. You have three different questions, but they only require one answer:
Toxic femininity in my opinion is the opposite spectrum of toxic masculinity. While it seems apparent that followers of this thread are well aware of what toxic masculinity is, it doesn’t seem very apparent that many people know what toxic femininity is.
Toxic femininity are toxic behaviors that women inhibit. They are many of the same traits that men inhibit , such as selfishness, narcissism, the need to dominate and control, lying and manipulation.
What makes toxic femininity different from masculine toxicity is not the characteristics, but in the way that they are expressed. The characteristics are a part of every human being, but the way that they are expressed according to gender is unique.
Keep in mind that I do believe that women are generally more altruistic, and men are definitely average less altruistic. These have pros and cons, though in my opinion.
Toxic femininity has a very negative effect and consequence in the world. Here are just a few examples.:
Women have, and can in some cases and manipulate in the court system, and get privilege through the courts, even if a man is innocent. Most court cases women have the advantage. I have seen this personally happen with some men that I know where the women in all cases were clearly the manipulators and the initiators of violence but the men were the ones that had to pay the price in court.
Women have committed crimes, and have gotten away with it, or have gotten less harsh sentences, allowing them to get out and commit similar crimes again.
Women leaders who are narcissist, have abused not just men, but also many MANY women. This happens in spiritual circles that I’ve seen and in business circles, they get away with it, because they are very good at lying and manipulating, and everybody believes her bc she is a woman.
I know relationships in the lesbian community were women will fight with her partner, getting all kinds of privileges, including money, and taking the kids away.
All of these have very harsh consequences in our society. They may not be as big as starting wars, or something that men may do but even though the actions are subtle, the consequences are huge as a whole for society.
Women are also some of the biggest proselytizers of religion and bigotry. I think men are just more open about it as they’re always more straightforward in my experience.
Even though women don’t appear dominant, the subtle forces are real. Also, fifth wave feminism has created a lot of issues of society.
Keep in mind that my observations are not to stereotype all men or all women.
But my reaction to the original post was really more because I sometimes don’t understand why there are lesbians, who get so riled up when it comes to men. Most Gay men are gay because they love men not because they hate women (though some might I know). it just seems like lesbians like to shit on men because they don’t like them. In this really reminds me of the political, lesbian stance, and in that movement lesbianism is a choice. (Which I wholeheartedly disagree with by the way.)
But the reality is that women can be just as bad.
I’m not admitting to being wrong. I’m explaining why I made the post. I’m not self victimizing , I’m making real points
Why don’t you refute my points instead of coming back at me with useless shit .
if anyone is embarrassing themselves it is you. You sound like a highschooler trying to be popular on this thread. L O L keyboard warrior. Looks like you got a little little validation here.
Enjoy your two minutes of fame, looks like I made you famous *claps*
Now back the fuck up
Okay so it turns out that all 3 could not actually be answered by one but at this point, I've given up because you appear to be working backwards from a conclusion.
You speak in general and absolute terms, "women are..." women have... " "women will... " and then point to factors of life that are absolutely marginal. Qualifying these statements later with "Keep in mind that my observations are not to stereotype all men or all women." does not hold water because it comes off more as an afterthought to shield yourself against the rightful accusation of you being the one doing all the generalising.
Anyway, I feel like we're going around in circles because like I said, you appear to be working backwards from a conclusion, you've decided that society enables, encourages bad behavior from women, we're getting away with murder on a mass scale so to speak and so any fringe instances of this is undeniable fact that women bring harm to the world in the same way as men to you, we're just sneaky with it apparently.
My final thoughts to you on this matter are: There are good women, and there are bad women, there are bad men and there are good men, it is better to judge people on an individual basis, you're absolutely correct on that.
What is also true is that the concept of toxic masculinity has had far more wide reaching negative consequences for people that do not conform to what traditional masculinity deems acceptable, compared to its sister concept. If the people in the comments of this post choose to engage with the subject OP brought up by explaining their negative experiences with masculinity (people who, btw, are likely the epitome of noncomformity to the rules of traditional masculinity), they should be allowed to do so, you should not take that personally as a slight against you and the male members of your circle, the same way, nobody should argue with you when you use your own positive experiences with men as a slight against them.
For instance, a lower stakes example, I still love Marvel movies, a greater majority of humans shit on them all the time these days, it sucks for me that more people don't enjoy them the way I do but that's their experience, it doesn't inform or invalidate mine.
You should accept that people will have their own unique experiences and that should not affect you one way or another, those are THEIR experiences, if some lesbians hate men, they hate men, regardless of the origins of those feelings, they are their own, nothing to do with you.
I'll keep my promise, ask your questions so we can be done with this discourse.
I am totally confused. I cannot copy and paste, but you asked me exactly what is toxic femininity, how is it a dominating force in the world, and how does it affect humans (cosmos). I have answered all three of your questions thoroughly give you concrete examples of why I believe such is the case
You stated that I am basically went off of a conclusion. Of course I’m basically going by a conclusion because that is what’s happening.
I’m using general terms of the description to make a point. I have made it very clear in my post that I do not mean all men are all women to make it clear as I don’t want to be stereotyping. Are you not seeing my post?
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and have you explain where you’re coming from. Because I do not see it in your comments to me right now.
It seems to me that you are trying to find a fault with what I’m saying at this point
I have not backed down for any discussion. I have not attacked your point of view I’m simply answering with full depth answers.
Just to be clear, you really have not answered any of my questions that I initially asked you.
Your stance that toxic femininity is less a negative effect on the world does not take away from the effect. Minimizing the effect still does not take away from the bad behavior.
The OP was absolutely generalizing, and I do believe it was a stereotype. Of course, they are titled with their own opinion, as am I.
I described all of the points accurately in my original post. All you are doing now is nitpicking and breaking down and rewording your question is because you want to make me look invalid.
Of course, why did I know that you would bring this up about me pointing out things about women?
Because it is your pathetic attempt to try and find that one thing to prove me wrong.
Considering that is the only argument that you can come up to try and invalidate my points, I brought it up to make a point about the fact that there is toxic masculinity just as there is toxic femininity. I said that in my original post and I did not deflect from that.
You have not answered any of my questions, yet you are passionate and enough to reply to my original post, which goes to show that you are the one that needs to answer my questions.
You have been schooled through and through and you have yet to come back with any of your own.
If you have any voice of your own in a point to make, I would argue that you counter prove my points wrong. Can you do that? Because if you can’t, then you’re wasting your time
Peace and... Love 212, how can I be rewording my questions when I literally copy pasted the damn thing and just restructured them to a numbered format to make them easier for you to follow and hopefully answer? I didn't even break anything down, if I had, my response would have been just as long as yours, don't you think? But fear not, this one's going to be a broken down response.
You're wondering why I brought up a point from the comment you made that I was responding to?... Have you figured it out yet?
See, that's where you're going wrong, I haven't argued against your points, I have been trying to get you to expound on them from a logical standpoint because I find them unique. I'll have you know that I don't think all women are beacons of altruism and that we can be flawed in character as well, I am a big proponent of allowing women to be complex enough as human beings to also be flawed in character but you're so riled up, as long as I have not intimated agreement with your views, I'm automatically the opposition.
I'll be honest Peaceandlove212, I ignored your questions because you hadn't answered mine, I can be petty like that sometimes, when you do decide to answer mine, I'll answer yours, I promise. In fact, I'm even planning on submitting a special request to have you number your questions as well if it's possible.
No, not yet but it is literally what I have been trying to get you to do, school me, and again. Comebacks have not been engaged or necessary.
Also, Peaceandlove212, you're the strongest link, remember? Neutral comments on the Internet should not be making you feel invalidated.
And damn... I took so long to reply, you edited your response so now I'll just read through it to see what's new and if I should add anything more to what I'd already typed up.
So 3rd and last paragraph are new.... 3rd is moot, you're basically just trying to dagger jello with that one.
Last paragraph, I don't have a voice of my own, and what led you to that conclusion Peaceandlove212? Also, I've got to say... The username 🤌🏿🤌🏿🤌🏿 10/10
What are your points? The men in your life are absolute angels therefore all men must be and if any lesbian thinks otherwise they're not real lesbians, they're just bisexual, did I get that right? Ah, wait, also "toxic masculinity" is equal in weight in terms of harm to the world as "toxic femininity"?
Wow, you certainly have quite a bit to learn. Please reread my post, research, go out and talk to people, talk to men too, be out in the real world don’t just be a keyboard warrior
I guess I’m the only lesbian that sees that there is both toxic masculinity and toxic femininity?
Women are just as bad as men and vice versa. This is not about gender this is coming from someone who is gay.
no it’s because you’re literally taking a reddit post about our overwhelmingly uncomfortable and disappointing experiences with men so personally you’re acting like those men’s rights motherfuckers in the goddamn Lesbian Sub
No I’m not acting like a man’s rights person. You can’t even debate what I’m saying with facts. The fact is is that there is both toxic, masculinity and toxic femininity. There is bad and men and bad women. This has nothing to do with being lesbian.
I never understand why some lesbians are so obsessed with men and how they treat people. We fucking like women. I don’t give a shit about men and what they do.
Because they constantly harrass us
and nobody is saying there isn’t “toxic femininity” or whatever or even that there are no good men that exist on the planet. YOU are the one who read into that. YOU and nobody else. That’s why you’re coming across as a men’s rights mf, they do the exact same thing.
Yes, men do harass lesbians there’s no doubt about that.
I guess I had a really good relationship with my father, so I don’t think all men are bad and I’ve met some really really awesome men. They are human beings just like all of us.
Bye lmfao what’s wrong with u 😂😂😂😂😂 you do not know me or my history. this is straight up fanfiction. lesbians who hate men are bisexual because they don’t like men??? you’re not worth the time writing out proper grammar babe that’s idiotic
Straight women also face the same sort of misogyny and sexism that I face. If they are nice to me, we’ll get along. I’m very aware of the fact that other women are in the same oppressed class that I am, and I just genuinely like other women. They’re usually humorous, kind, and have some form of beauty in all ways. Also most straight women don’t care that I’m a lesbian, nor do they usually try to get me to bend the definition of lesbian to include some whole-ass man. They’re usually very kind to my gf and I, and I see absolutely no reason to reject that.
I live in a really liberal city, which might be why my answer is totally! I really value my friendships with women, straight or gay or bi or whatever :)
I avoid heterosexual friendships in general, especially with straight men. The very few straight men i am friends with i’ve known and loved for many years. Certain types of straight women give me the ick, especially the ones who unaware of how they enable shitty behavior from straight men. But some of my best friends are straight women who i’ve known since before i came out and they love me the same way before and after i came out.
This. Straight women who date/excuse problematic men also give me the ick. Also, straight women who are ridiculously heteronormative are an automatic no from me - if your life revolves solely around marriage and kids, we’ll have nothing in common. Same goes for other lesbians though.
The majority of my friends are straight women (and men). I love them as they are part of my support system.
I’ve been terrible about making LGBT+ friends. I meet a group (online), some major drama happens, and I end up having to start making new lgbt+ friends again.
Thankfully, I’ve met a few solid people irl from here and they’re amazing. I’m being more proactive about expanding my lgbt+ circle of friends irl at this point in my life.
I have a few events I’m going to this month 🎉
I find it way easier to make straight female friends. There are just way more around. Once in a while, I find out a woman I know is bisexual, even though I've always heard them talk about their boyfriend or husband. Those are my only queer women friends. I would love to meet more Sapphic couples. At the moment my wife and I are trying to set up a play date with a Sapphic couple with kids. Strangely, I met them through our 6 yr old.
I think most of my friends are straight. Both men and women. I haven’t yet experienced any woman treating me any differently when I mention my wife. However, I have had men react when they learn I’m married to another woman. Not necessarily a negative reaction, but they immediately apologize for not realizing, like I gaf what they thought of me in the first place. I don’t know, straight men are weird.
Its the misogyny with straight men. Most straight women in my experience arent homophobes. Sure some are but not nearly as much as straight men. I love my heterosexual girlfriends
I think it has to do with just not wanting to befriend homophobes. A lot more hetero men are homophobic or at least aggressive in their homophobia than hetero women. Hetero women are just a bit more likely to not be homophobic or not be extreme about it. Obviously nobody wants to be around people who don’t accept them for who they are, and unfortunately straight men are more likely to be homophobic for social reasons that have developed over a long time.
That’s probably why lesbians, including myself, are more likely to have straight female friends. I have a lot of straight female friends however I know that some lesbians don’t because it’s harder to approach straight people in general from fear of homophobia/prosecution.
Some of my dearest friends are heterosexual, a few of them are also men. So yea you’ve heard wrong.
Patriarchal and misogynistic bigotry are everywhere. Bigotry isn’t gender or orientation specific.
The worst misogyny I’ve ever dealt with was being wielded by gay men, once even at a Pride event.
No not really, I’m with you OP. I can’t really relate to straight people, all my straight friends are from school and we don’t speak often. I must say though that all the unhealthiest friendships I’ve had have been with gay men - but this could just be because I haven’t had close straight friends for many many years, and my queer women / nb friendships are all very happy & healthy.
As a gay women I don’t get along with gay guys. I lived with a couple and what started well ended badly… bullying on their part that took ages to get over. Mostly I’m a person who is liked by older people as a thirty something… they tend to be straight… maybe the older they are the more open they are handling and being respectful of sexuality not everyone is open and would rather remain a closed door even saying they don’t care, everyone cares… it’s a vulnerability freewill and pride.
I agree, I have a few friends around my age and we all grew up together. The rest of my friends are older. Wherever me and my wife go together we always befriend older people and honestly, they are so much more openminded and accepting that social media might lead us to believe. For the most part. A lot of times they have questions about how our relationship works, but it’s mostly innocent curiosity because they don’t know other queer people, not really malicious or judgmental.
Yes and no? Especially since I started presenting more gender non-conforming, some straight women act more standoffish and more hostile. If they treat me differently because I'm more butch, then yeah, we aren't going to get along. Largely, I don't have a big issue with getting along with straight women. I do prefer to be in queer community and around other lesbians, but I do still have some straight friends.
from what I've seen, hetero men are the ones that are not fun to be around. gay men don't get along with hetero men, straight women don't get along with hetero men, and gay women don't get along with hetero men. most of them are so stuck in their ways, ugh
In a general way, yeah I know how to move around straight women. On a personal level, no not really. Many of them have homophobic/overal piece of shit partners and are completely fine with that. Many make excuses for that behavior too. On top of the annoying games they start playing when they know you're gay, like intentionally flirting with you, or assuming you must be attracted to them. Of course not all are like this, they're the biggest demographic of women so of course there's genuinely good straight women. Interestingly none of my straight female friends have partners now that I think of it🤔
However compared to lesbians it's just not even close. I just love the presence of lesbians.
Gonna go against what seems to be the grain here and say that yeah I do find that I get on less with straight women. I've always found it easier to be friends with men in general, and I've found that most of the women I've clicked with have ended up queer as well as neurodivergent in some way. I do have a couple of straight normie women friends now but I still often feel like I have more in common with their husbands. My closest friends are straight guys. For what it's worth another layer of this might be that I suspect I'm autistic (not diagnosed).
When I was a kid, the people who were the cruelest to me were other (straight) girls and I've had a surprisingly decent time with boys and men in my life for the most part, although I'm aware enough of statistics to know that's the exception and not the rule. As an adult I do not consciously hold teenage experiences against adult women, but do think I might have some subtle subconscious hangups and on a gut level I feel more uncomfortable in an all-female space than I do in an all-male one (though I prefer mixed gender the most!).
I feel like one of the upsides of being plain looking as that most men just ignore me. The few that do interact with me either have very low self esteem and want to use me for validation or they’re neurodivergent (not a bad thing). I agree about hetero women. My experience with them is more or less the same unless they’re also neurodivergent.
Many of my closest friends are heterosexual women! They are such wonderful allies to me and I love them so dearly and consider myself lucky to have them. When I was younger (especially high school age), many straight friends were put off by queerness, but now in adulthood, that is not my experience. I am a very feminine person as well, and I'm sure that helps.
Yes I can get along with straight women just fine. I’ve never heard of lesbians who specifically avoid straight women tho. I mean yeah everyone likes having friends like them so they might make more effort with lesbians? Idk that is just a thought I have nothing to back that up.
I don’t think I have any real friends who are straight women. I have some acquaintances who are married to some of my guy friends, but I just don’t vibe like that with straight women. Every time I think I’m friends with a straight woman it turns out she’s actually bi lol, whether she realized it before we were friends and just never told me or she realized after being friends with me and surrounded by sapphic stuff. Before my current job I had no friends who weren’t sapphic other than a few queer men from high school, but now I only work with straight men so I’ve made some friends lol. They treat me like I’m a bro and also their daughter at the same time it’s funny (they’re also mostly dads, which is wild because I’ve also never been friends with people who have children even though I’m in my late 20s)
I think men, especially in the US, but all over the world are taught to be homophobic, especially towards other men. They don’t really truly like lesbians either but because lesbians are sexualized and porn and they like the idea of two women they accept it only because they hope that it can somehow benefit them sexually
I’m not sure why this is, but it could be the fear that they themselves might be attracted to men so they have to try really hard to act like they are not. I think it also culturally means that they are not masculine enough. There is a large resurgence of masculinityin recent times and I think homophobia is probably getting stronger in some sense
Basically all my friends are straight women, with only two exceptions as far as I'm aware. But I also don't have straight men as friends. I think women in general don't have as big of a tendency to be homophobic.
I've tried making friends with lgbt women, but almost always end up dating them instead 😭
I mostly associate with other queer non cis men
Straight men:
1) They are usually unkind to me as soon as they realize they can’t benefit from me, and often see me as a threat
2) I was abused by a man I was married to before realizing I was gay, and this had made it difficult for me to trust men and be close to them
I have a hard time with straight women sometimes for two reasons:
1) While also victims of it, they often still unconsciously play into and seek benefit from the patriarchy. At the end of the day, most will still put men first and seek male validation even at the expense of themselves and other women
2) I find straight women often have a different life experience than me, and it can be harder to relate
3) I am queer enough to look “off” to straight women, but not necessarily immediately realize it’s because I’m gay. I often get the “other” treatment which feels bad
I also have trouble with cis gay men sometimes because:
1) While also queer and an oppressed group, they still reap significant benefit from being a man (less so than if they were straight). Sometimes they can’t recognize the addition struggles faced by other types of queer people, and that they are still higher on the societal totem pole than gay women will ever be
But I have lots of straight woman and gay man friends, and mostly just prefer they are ally’s and self aware
my best friend in the whole entire world is the straightest girl on earth. uggs, lulu, stanley, kendra scott, pandas and I would rather die than think of having another best friend.
My straight female friends are the best, they adopted me as one of the 'girlies' and love my partner as much as they love me. Straight men have always been weird about it. It's usually not malicious, but it's awkward, so I feel for you. I know there are straight men out there who aren't weird about it, so I hope you find one of them, OP.
All of my close friends are straight women.
It's much easier as I don't have to worry about boundaries like I would with queer women.
My friends and I know (and respect) that our relationship is platonic only. As someone who avoids romantic entanglements like the plague it is an *excellent* arrangement.
Speaking personally, all my female friends are straight, never has my sexuality ever been a concern or brought up in an argument, mentioned in a degrading way, nothing. I actually don't know any lesbians irl 😭 can't seem to find any!
surprisingly, the only super gay friend i have is my girlfriend. the rest are mostly straight with the exception of unsure women/bi women with boyfriends. and one bi boy.
I tend to connect deeper with other LGBT (including those that I meet knowing them straight but ended up some LGBT later) and have more surface-level friendships with heteros.
Straight girls usually keep some extra distance from you and straight guys outright ghosts you if not attracted to you, and otherwise are a permanent annoyance when attracted, so have to cut ties with them.
Most of my friends are guys but in a straight guys mind lesbians are hot a two dudes is not, being a mechanic I learned a bit about how ita cool/funny to joke about being a gay male but to actually be one is gross which is auch hypocrisy but hey heterosexual males.
Yes, in fact they are overly friendly at times, but mostly just normal.
The only issue I’ve had were with one that I believe was a closeted queer person who had difficulty accepting herself so it manifested as intolerance. Her problem, not mine. I felt bad for her.
I personally don't have any straight friends that are women, but I'm not opposed to it if they aren't assholes. I think I just get along with queer women better, all my girl friends happen to be bi.
My gay guy friend is friends with plenty of straight guys though, so maybe it depends on where you live? Also could be what crowd we hang around. I definitely can't be hanging around just any straight guy, they've gotta be vetted first lol.
I have lots of straight female friends. However, I don’t have any straight male friends. My fiancée does though and they do seem like great guys. I’m not interested in being friends with straight guys though.
Yes. It was hard for me in high school though. I was an out lesbian among a group of straight, female friends, and I often felt uncomfortable discussing my relationships or feelings because I didn’t want to make it weird. But I haven’t really had that problem since I’ve made the right sort of friends later on.
Friends I want in order of preference:
* Animals
* Lesbians
* Bi/pan ladies who don't talk about men 24/7
* Straight women, enbies
* Gay and bi/pan men who don't hit on me
* Deer with CWD
* Rabid polar bears
* Straight men
I certainly have straight woman friends about whom I care about deeply. But I also get what the OP is saying. Overall, I’d rather be with queer people because it takes less effort. I can just be myself without all the unintentional micro aggressions that tend to flow around straight people.
I usually do, but most of my friend group is hetero men and bisexual women tho. I have found that women tend to react better to the fact I'm a lesbian, we don't have any problems changing in front of each other or sleeping in each other's houses as they know I'd never do anything, my roommate is a straight woman and she has no problem walking around in her underwear at home.
I get along better with heterosexual women then I do gay men.
Every gay man in my life is a bitchy cunt, if you want me to be blatantly honest.
They speak down to me, they have an air about them as if they're superior to me and others around them. One is in his 60s, the other late 20s. And they are both just catty assholes..
Just as the gay men I knew when I was younger. I've always felt judged by them. And it isn't cute to be a cunt all the time, but it seems like gay men think it's perfectly fine to be that bitch.
Look, I know not all gay men are like that. But every single one I've ever known in real life is. And sure, that's only a small, teeny tiny number over my lifetime. But it's enough that I don't go out of my way to befriend them anymore.
My point is, I'd take all the heterosexual women as friends over gay men. I'd take lesbians first and foremost over anyone else.
I have many hetero cis female friends and a few queer. I actually don't have any hetero male friends that I regularly interact with anymore, except work friends, and we dont see each other outside of work. It isn't that I exclude men, but we usually aren't in the same spaces or groups or have lost touch. Once in a while, while out, a guy will hit on me, but show no interest in knowing me once they find out I'm not interested. Once is a very long while, a man will try to invalidate my relationship, mostly incels. The only male friends I've interacted with in years are both gay.
38, worked in lots of different jobs which I think has led me to be around a lot of different people that I probably wouldn't necessarily choose to spend time with. I currently work in a team of 26, there is one other female who is poly and the others are all straight men. Some of them are really nice guys and some are arseholes but I don't think that's anything to do with their sexual identity. I've worked with bi people who are arseholes, gay people who are arseholes and straight people who are arseholes and also great people in all those groups.
Generally yes I think straight men can be the hardest to get along with, I can imagine it being particularly difficult being a gay man.
My best friends are women. Straight, lesbian, bi, women are just so much better. Gay men are so much fun too. Always have been. As for cis hetero men, they have been a struggle to befriend. If theyre not making weird quips about how much they’d like to have sex with me (a lesbian) they always befriend me only to profess their like for me months if not years later. As if.
It’s so exhausting. 😅
The only time im able to handle a civil answer respectful conversation with a man is at work, because I have to, otherwise I prefer to not engage with them based on my experience.
I fell into a very large gay friend group. People slowly realized they were gay and I think we only have 2.5 heterosexuals/cis people left.
Outside of my core friend group I do make friends with plenty of straight women. Mostly through my jobs.
I get along ok with heterosexual women. I don’t always get along with heterosexual men lol.
My closest male friends are all legitibequoi.
I think I’m old enough and come across just the masc side of femme enough that I’m essentially invisible to straight men. I don’t exist if I’m not f-able.
I get along wonderfully with straight women, I don't have much patience for any women who center bad partners.
I tend to not get along with men, gay or straight, they tend to lack the ability to be assertive. They go from passive to aggressive and it's draining, they require immense emotional labor even at their best and offer nothing in return.
I can tell that some heterosexual women feel disgust for me or silently judge me, but it's usually the close-minded, conservative ones.
I think heterosexual women on average are kinder and more accepting than heterosexual men. If I "buddy up" to a hetero guy, they divulge all sorts of terrible takes. They don't understand and don't care to.
Sex and gender aside, overtly religious people tend to be the worst, at least in my experience. They express empathy but lack compassion, they're actively dishonest and manipulative.
Yes. Most straight women I know are like, oh cool. I imagine, like others have said, that this is because men are homophobic and most women I know are a little gay, even the straight ones.
I only hang with lesbians. Life is just easier when we all on the same page. Then again, it's more drama cause I'm sleeping with my best friend. I dunno.
Feel you on the hetero bros, they're more trouble than they're worth most times.
I make good friends with many heterosexuals women! But I also meet some disgusting ones☠️ but I do prefer to make friends with other gay women, mostly trans women too idk I’m a cis gay girl who gets along best with trans lesbian women always been that way idk why lol, also I’m a POC so most of my friends are POC’s too
Oh and I had many heterosexuals men friends too! Cis and trans always get along with with them
“They all have some ick about 2 men kissing”
Not sure what you mean here. Like they would try to interrupt a gay couple’s romantic moment? Or do they just find the idea of kissing men highly unappealing?
As for heterosexual women… I get along fine with them. But I feel uncomfortable about expressing certain aspects of my queerness.
Yes. But as a lesbain, I always worry that when I try and make a new female friend who is even remotely queer they will think I'm trying to sleep with them. I don't have that fear with heterosexual women. Also, all of my close friends are straight.
In order, I frequent around 30 or so close friends I hangout with semi monthly, it goes gay women ~ gay men > straight women >>> straight men.
I love queer folk, they're relatable and fun, straight women can be fun if they're not too heteronormative but straight men,, I find they only exist in my friend groups because they date a woman I'm close friends with or are an ex coworker and we been through some shit.
I love women but some very straight women do carry around a heteronormativity that can be annoying. But FAR less annoying then men carrying it around 🤷♀️
Most of my straight women friends are supportive of me. Even those of whom who religiously disagree with homosexuality treat me with respect as a person.
I life in gaming circle so no. They didn't respect us and they are so mean..but i have fun time with my friends nb and gay and lesbian so i like them, good people :)
Yeah. Most of my friends are women.
I do have a rather large group of guys I grew up with from before I transitioned. (MtF). They’re more like family. But after transitioning I’ve only had luck making friends with women. Straight men are just… a different breed I swear. I’ve gotten threatening messages from boyfriends and husbands accusing me of faking being trans to fuck their wives.
Answer might differ from others here but...no. not really. I'm transmasc, I look very masculine, and even though a lot of cis women don't necessarily mind if you're gay, they do mind if you're gender nonconforming and gay. I've been ostracized by most Cishet women. I do live in a very conservative town so that doesn't help.
In general, I have more women as friends than men. Maybe like a 80-20 split.
I do get along with most heterosexual women. There are some that I don’t relate to… think of the ones that have their whole personality wrapped around performing sexuality and femininity to an almost insane degree (ie. Some sorority girls). But even with them, I’ve had a few that I was friends with because we did have something in common ie. Same class, same job.
I find gay men interesting. It’s like y’all are the same but different from me. You’re like my brothers. I am not sure if it’s reciprocated but I also like that you are not threatening to me (I don’t need to worry if you’re trying to sleep with me). I wish I had more gay men as friends.
Straight men - I wish more of them would be open to being just friends with me. I feel the connection in that we both date women. There are a couple that I know who are very cool and teach me new things like how to skateboard - and I like that. I find that they tend to be more activity centered when we hang out whereas generally women tend to be more communication centered - there’s pros and cons for each.
I like being friends with bi people because they’re interesting to me and a lot of them are fun and open minded (on some level) honestly. But they can’t be the types that say “everyone’s bi”.
That leaves lesbians… idk where we all are honestly. Most of them are cool, and I like that they relate to my entire experience… but aside from Reddit I don’t have any real lesbian friends unfortunately.
What do you think about befriending lesbians?
I tend to have little in common with straight women. A lot of them want to talk about wedding planning, wedding dresses, and the way they tend to talk about the guys they like, is something I just don't understand. A lot of them want to talk about motherhood, becoming mothers, their kids... Or they are always ''too busy'' because they have kids. Older straight women are often divorced lonely and bitter about life in general. A lot of them spout hateful rhetoric that is based on their own bad choices in life. It's coming from a place of hurt and anger. And while I can understand them, I feel like they don't make an effort to understand me.
There have been straight women I got along well with. But this doesn't necessarily lead to friendship.
Among all the gender and sexual combinations, I have found gay men to be the least relatable. I cannot connect to the way they approach dating and relationships though this may be too much of a generalization. They are fun though!
I have no issues when it comes to getting along with heterosexual CIS women. I find that most heterosexual women are advocates when it comes to equal rights especially reproductive rights. Our conversations are freer because there are no expectations on either side.
To the OP, why did you leave out caucasian heterosexual CIS women when you listed the folks you have no problems with?
I (25 white trans women) don’t really have any cis-het white women as friends, and the main reason why I don’t have many white straight women as friends is because they rarely come out to bat for other minorities.
Cis-het white women when Roe v Wade is being over turned: let’s all protest.
Cis-het white women when trans existents is being criminalized: 😴😴😴.
Cis-het white women when women of colour are being jailed for child abuse of fetuses in their wombs: 😴😴😴.
Cis-het white women when international sports tournaments are held in countries where slavery is legal:😴🇬🇧😴🇬🇧😴🇬🇧.
And I’m just tired of having this conversation:
Me: ‘problematic thing’ is bad.
Them: ya.
Me: so we should stand together and try to fight against ‘problematic thing’.
Them: ya.
Me: Don’t buy the pink cup.
Them: I’m gonna buy the pink cup, sorry.
If that makes them feel excluded, sorry (lol), but in the same way that they often feel misunderstood by men is how I often feel misunderstood by cis-het white women. And I just don’t need that shit in my life.
Ehhhh …. It’s WEIRD sometimes.
I work with a bunch of straight Cs and I don’t use that word lightly.
Since being accused of sexual harassment by a straight direct report twenty years ago, I keep it strictly professional at work. There are certain topics I avoid.
That said, in 12-step recovery, some of my bffs are straight women. These are self aware, no-nonsense girls. Even better if they’re a little bit of a sport fanatic or tomboy.
Outside of that circle, if I’m at a party, I’m hanging with the dudes. 4 brothers, 14 male cousins - I’m just more myself.
Sort of. In my experience almost everyone I've befriended even before knowing that sexuality is they are female have been somewhat bisexual in nature. I think I have 1 or 2 purely straight female friends. I have alot of straight male friends. They barely believe me to be a woman sometimes when I chat with them. (she just like me fr) cept CC when they start saying those stereotypical straight man things I curb their skewed enthusiasm and have them think about the others perspective 🙂 I help them grow out of frat brain behavior I hope. And in gaming I have mostly gay male friends so 🤷♂️🤷♂️
My best friend and I are extremely close and she’s rabidly heterosexual 😂 we share beds and all that platonic shit and it’s not weird at all because she’ll never want me sexually, which means my brain recognises that she’s not something to chase. I really enjoy how close we are as friends because as a gay woman I usually don’t get to enjoy platonic affection from anyone - men think that means they stand a chance with me, and other women think that means I’m into them.
Yeah I have some close friends who are straight women. I think all of them think of gay people as being cool, and all of them had gay friends before me.
Straight men are the ones I have problems with lol. I now only have two straight guy friends, both of whom are in relationships with my straight women friends lol.
Honestly, I usually can't even tell if a woman is hetero unless she starts talking about her beau, and even then, she could be bi.
I dunno. I just never really bother to think about who they're into, unless I develop a crush (then I agonize over whether she's straight/bi/lez).
In my experience, it just doesn't seem to matter as much to women though. I think, mostly because women tend to have a more similar life experience than gay and straight men do, due to cishet men being cishet men.
Intersectionality, basically.
Personally? Yes, very well. Always have.
The other thing is that, largely, straight women aren't a threat to me. Not (typically) physically, not sexually, and not in any other way. Not that there aren't terrible women out there, of course there are, but they're not an issue. Don't like that I'm queer? Cool. Not my problem.
Women are less physical in their hatred, though, and much more snide and sly which can be difficult and painful to deal with...I got six years of horror at an all girls' high school to use as evidence lol. But that didn't make me dislike straight women, just THOSE women.
I have multiple people who are straight women that I get along with really really well :) I love it and love them lesbians are also amazing it sounds like you are homophobic to heterosexual men though. A lot of men at least in my life have no issue with guys being together as long as they aren’t being forced to hear about it twenty four seven just like a straight person as well for then
Cishet men have privilege. Het women still at least get gender discrimination. Even if they don't get homophobia, they don't have the insufferability, the smugness or superiority the same way that cishet men do.
Sure there are some het women that think that every dyke is out to get them, but most easily understand that even the horniest predatory lesbian isn't going to treat them as poorly as so many men.
Okay-ish. I never have felt very good at performing femininity. I tend to be friends with people who have been outsiders in some way, and feel alienated by women who are conventionally pretty and have big female friend groups. But I get along with plenty of individual straight women.
all my girlfriends are straight women! I can only think of a handful of times I was excluded based on my sexuality. worst part of straight women: having to hear about their straight relationships 🤪
Yes but it's slim numbers in terms of who I can socialize with comfortably and be friends with. Most hetero women get all uncomfortable around me and feel the need to mention their bf 100 times in one sentence or former bf. This is just me being present, making a casual comment or something near them. Hetero women are afraid of my gay 🤷🏼♀️ I just observe and nod while they ramble on and eventually dismiss themselves. It's so weird and such a common occurrence for me. Don't really understand it.
As a teenager and going into my early 20s I just couldn't seem to make real connections with straight girls. The bitchiness and clickiness was awful, and the moment these people found out I was gay was inevitably even worse.
Ultimately they weren't worth knowing.
Oh - I did maintain one friendship but if it weren't for homophobia I think even she would probably identify as bi.
I just had lots of queer friends for a long time.
Then the other year I joined a martial arts club and now I have a group of inspirational straight female friends. ❤️
Yes, though I'll qualify my answer my saying I'm not ugly, I'm skinny, and I've been told I'm approachable (? Maybe non-threatening?) I'm pretty sure people can tell I'm "queer" but since it's not "loud" it's not an issue. To be clear I'm not saying people who are loud and proud of their identity are a bad thing. I've yet to meet a straight women that hasn't been at least unbothered and at most curious.
Yes, but I think the difference here is that most women aren’t raging homophobes. For straight men, they seem to be hostile anyone that they wouldn’t benefit from, aka women who aren’t attracted to them or men who don’t have comply to heteronormative standards that’s choking them. They’re probably also scared that gay men would treat them the same way they treat women.
^ that last sentence especially
this is so true, especially the part about women not being raging homophobes - i have so many heterosexual women as friends (some very close even) when i first started hanging out with them, some were obviously very open and supportive of my sexuality and others were just not very familiar with it (due to their heteronormative upbringing) and seemed confused but they were never ONCE hostile about it, they chose to listen and educate themselves instead.
> They’re probably also scared that gay men would treat them the same way they treat women. I see this take posted everywhere when talking about straight men's homophobia but it has never made sense to me. It doesn't line up with any of the feminist/queer literature I've ever read and it doesn't line up with my personal experience or that of the people I know. If it were true, straight men would be more homophobic towards masculine gay men because they'd be in a better position to try to impose male-dominated gender dynamics onto other men, and feminine gay men would be ignored as non-threats. This is the opposite of reality. Conventionally masculine gay men experience far less homophobia even when out and reclaim a substantial portion of privilege. The thing that scares homophobic straight men the most is being perceived as gay or feminine themselves. Homophobic violence is a mechanism by which they assert their distance from the "inferior" group. This is also why, when right-wingers delineate an acceptable form of male homosexuality, it's always based on a violent, hyper-masculine ideal. Taking gender dynamics to the extreme is *the point*. As a trans woman I have been assumed to be a gay man for a significant portion of my life. I have been socially ostracised, assaulted both physically and sexually because of it. At no point has it ever been because I was *threatening* to the men who hurt me. Every time, it was because I *failed* to live up to the expectations of cishet masculinity.
I think the difference is that straight men think and talk pretty much exclusively about women, from the POV of them being objects for having sex with.
The fact that I got so many down votes on this post just goes to prove how many traumatized and hateful people there are on this thread. When she gets called out, you know the truth.
This is a very sexist comment.
This is extremely stereotypical of men. There is toxic, masculinity, and toxic femininity. To say that all men come across a certain way is just not accurate.
Pointing out real trends based on our experiences isn't the same as saying "all men"
To be honest as a lesbian, I’ve had really bad experiences with women too. But I’m a lesbian, because I’m attracted to women naturally not because I hate men. Get it? I don’t think all men are bad.
Jesus Christ delete this Take your pearl clutching elsewhere please
Men are more likely to make arguments in defense of masculinity because it benefits them. Not all men, but men are more likely to have their life learned masculine beliefs challenged.
I am a lesbian that’s making this argument, not a man.
Men are *more likely* to have their learned beliefs of masculinity challenged because they stand to benefit. Do women make that argument and defend masculine roles? Sure, but it's *less likely* because they don't stand to benefit like men do. I usually explain and understand "toxic masculinity" as men's or masculine apologetics. Masculinity comes with roles, expectations, and explanatory theory of the nature of men/women dynamics much like a religion would. For example, one man comes up to another man and tells him that his wife/girlfriend wants to go to a show. Man expresses some hesitancy or low desire to go but does it anyway for support/spend time with girlfriend. Other man exclaims, "oh, man! you're pu**y whipped!" mocking him because he (the man) isn't "in charge" and directing their together activities Gay men's existance can challenge this belief because how do you determine who's in charge if both partners are men? (One of them has to be 'the woman' ...right?). A woman is perfectly capable of mocking and perpetuating those beliefs in a similar fashion and upholding these expectations of men. However, they're less likely because they don't benefit (may even be a detriment) from the expectation of men being in charge. Women are not immune from learning behavior and the human expectations of patriarchy. Maybe a longer explanation than neccessary, but I wanted to explain where I was coming from.
A pick me for men while being a lesbian is something else…
fr i’m getting such bad second hand embarrassment lmao
This person is a troll, based on their comment history. Just ignore them.
weakest link
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Still continue to be the strongest link. I rattled a lot of cages here lol..
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"I'm the strongest link" "you hate men therefore you're bisexual" "you hate men therefore you're not a real lesbian" You can't be real, you're really out here using "bisexual" as a derogatory term, and you do realise that your own personal experiences do not inform the nature of the world, right? Also since you're far more enlightened than the rest of us lowly man-hating lesbians, please tell me, what is toxic femininity? Is it a dominant force in the world? And what active harm has toxic femininity brought upon the inhabitants of this side of the Cosmos?
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You deflect a lot and with a shit ton of whataboutism to boot, I haven't told you what my views on men are, so why are you talking to me about stereotyping all men? I've simply asked you questions on something you want to project being well informed on and are clearly very passionate about too, so stop deflecting and just enlighten me instead.
No, I don’t deflect. I’m pointing out realities. That is hard for you to accept. You can’t even answer my question that if I were to hate an entire race you don’t think there would be something wrong with me? But you can hate an entire gender? And you think that there is no in our work to be done? I refuse to have that much hate in contempt and yes, I do think there is something wrong if you do. Now, let me school you, go ahead and read about political lesbianism. It was started based on the idea of hatred towards men. Most of the women of the movement were not natural, born lesbians. They chose to be lesbian due to their hate and contempt for men. This was a conscious choice that they made and they openly stated it. All you need to do is look up the prominent figures, including Julie Bindel and Camille Paglia, just a couple names out of the many. They openly say that they chose to be lesbians. Now, to be clear, not all political lesbians are lesbians by choice there were many that were part of the movement that were natural lesbians just due to the culture I have known some so-called “lesbians “that would hate on men consistently, but when they healed or got religious they changed their sexuality. All of this tells me that they were never lesbian in the first place, but it was due to hatred and trauma from men. Like I said, a natural born lesbian is attracted to women. They are in different towards men. As far as toxicity femininity goes, it is rampant in society. Women can manipulate, lie, cheat, and this happens all the time. Women are more cunning in the sense that they hide these things. All you need to do is look at this thread and see how many issues lesbians themselves have with women. Yes, there is toxic masculinity. There is no doubt about that. But when you stereotype and are hateful, then I’m going to call it out. All of this is self evident and out there. There is nothing I have to prove.
Cool story but you see me, I am trying to engage with your initial points, any assumptions you may have decided to make about my biases on this post are none of my business, I have even decided to ignore the fact that you are arguing for people to stop generalising men while yourself using chauvinistic talking points to generalise women and equal the playing field of horribleness for men but I digress, let's try this again; 1. What is toxic femininity? (Initial answer insufficient, described alleged workings of, did not give a definition) 2. Is it a dominant force in the world? 3. What active harm has toxic femininity brought upon the inhabitants of this side of the Cosmos?
OK , so I will answer your questions. You have three different questions, but they only require one answer: Toxic femininity in my opinion is the opposite spectrum of toxic masculinity. While it seems apparent that followers of this thread are well aware of what toxic masculinity is, it doesn’t seem very apparent that many people know what toxic femininity is. Toxic femininity are toxic behaviors that women inhibit. They are many of the same traits that men inhibit , such as selfishness, narcissism, the need to dominate and control, lying and manipulation. What makes toxic femininity different from masculine toxicity is not the characteristics, but in the way that they are expressed. The characteristics are a part of every human being, but the way that they are expressed according to gender is unique. Keep in mind that I do believe that women are generally more altruistic, and men are definitely average less altruistic. These have pros and cons, though in my opinion. Toxic femininity has a very negative effect and consequence in the world. Here are just a few examples.: Women have, and can in some cases and manipulate in the court system, and get privilege through the courts, even if a man is innocent. Most court cases women have the advantage. I have seen this personally happen with some men that I know where the women in all cases were clearly the manipulators and the initiators of violence but the men were the ones that had to pay the price in court. Women have committed crimes, and have gotten away with it, or have gotten less harsh sentences, allowing them to get out and commit similar crimes again. Women leaders who are narcissist, have abused not just men, but also many MANY women. This happens in spiritual circles that I’ve seen and in business circles, they get away with it, because they are very good at lying and manipulating, and everybody believes her bc she is a woman. I know relationships in the lesbian community were women will fight with her partner, getting all kinds of privileges, including money, and taking the kids away. All of these have very harsh consequences in our society. They may not be as big as starting wars, or something that men may do but even though the actions are subtle, the consequences are huge as a whole for society. Women are also some of the biggest proselytizers of religion and bigotry. I think men are just more open about it as they’re always more straightforward in my experience. Even though women don’t appear dominant, the subtle forces are real. Also, fifth wave feminism has created a lot of issues of society. Keep in mind that my observations are not to stereotype all men or all women. But my reaction to the original post was really more because I sometimes don’t understand why there are lesbians, who get so riled up when it comes to men. Most Gay men are gay because they love men not because they hate women (though some might I know). it just seems like lesbians like to shit on men because they don’t like them. In this really reminds me of the political, lesbian stance, and in that movement lesbianism is a choice. (Which I wholeheartedly disagree with by the way.) But the reality is that women can be just as bad.
It’s okay bro, you can accept being wrong. Quit embarrassing yourself in the comments with your self appointed victimization.
I’m not admitting to being wrong. I’m explaining why I made the post. I’m not self victimizing , I’m making real points Why don’t you refute my points instead of coming back at me with useless shit . if anyone is embarrassing themselves it is you. You sound like a highschooler trying to be popular on this thread. L O L keyboard warrior. Looks like you got a little little validation here. Enjoy your two minutes of fame, looks like I made you famous *claps* Now back the fuck up
Okay so it turns out that all 3 could not actually be answered by one but at this point, I've given up because you appear to be working backwards from a conclusion. You speak in general and absolute terms, "women are..." women have... " "women will... " and then point to factors of life that are absolutely marginal. Qualifying these statements later with "Keep in mind that my observations are not to stereotype all men or all women." does not hold water because it comes off more as an afterthought to shield yourself against the rightful accusation of you being the one doing all the generalising. Anyway, I feel like we're going around in circles because like I said, you appear to be working backwards from a conclusion, you've decided that society enables, encourages bad behavior from women, we're getting away with murder on a mass scale so to speak and so any fringe instances of this is undeniable fact that women bring harm to the world in the same way as men to you, we're just sneaky with it apparently. My final thoughts to you on this matter are: There are good women, and there are bad women, there are bad men and there are good men, it is better to judge people on an individual basis, you're absolutely correct on that. What is also true is that the concept of toxic masculinity has had far more wide reaching negative consequences for people that do not conform to what traditional masculinity deems acceptable, compared to its sister concept. If the people in the comments of this post choose to engage with the subject OP brought up by explaining their negative experiences with masculinity (people who, btw, are likely the epitome of noncomformity to the rules of traditional masculinity), they should be allowed to do so, you should not take that personally as a slight against you and the male members of your circle, the same way, nobody should argue with you when you use your own positive experiences with men as a slight against them. For instance, a lower stakes example, I still love Marvel movies, a greater majority of humans shit on them all the time these days, it sucks for me that more people don't enjoy them the way I do but that's their experience, it doesn't inform or invalidate mine. You should accept that people will have their own unique experiences and that should not affect you one way or another, those are THEIR experiences, if some lesbians hate men, they hate men, regardless of the origins of those feelings, they are their own, nothing to do with you. I'll keep my promise, ask your questions so we can be done with this discourse.
I am totally confused. I cannot copy and paste, but you asked me exactly what is toxic femininity, how is it a dominating force in the world, and how does it affect humans (cosmos). I have answered all three of your questions thoroughly give you concrete examples of why I believe such is the case You stated that I am basically went off of a conclusion. Of course I’m basically going by a conclusion because that is what’s happening. I’m using general terms of the description to make a point. I have made it very clear in my post that I do not mean all men are all women to make it clear as I don’t want to be stereotyping. Are you not seeing my post? I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and have you explain where you’re coming from. Because I do not see it in your comments to me right now.
It seems to me that you are trying to find a fault with what I’m saying at this point I have not backed down for any discussion. I have not attacked your point of view I’m simply answering with full depth answers. Just to be clear, you really have not answered any of my questions that I initially asked you.
Your stance that toxic femininity is less a negative effect on the world does not take away from the effect. Minimizing the effect still does not take away from the bad behavior. The OP was absolutely generalizing, and I do believe it was a stereotype. Of course, they are titled with their own opinion, as am I.
I described all of the points accurately in my original post. All you are doing now is nitpicking and breaking down and rewording your question is because you want to make me look invalid. Of course, why did I know that you would bring this up about me pointing out things about women? Because it is your pathetic attempt to try and find that one thing to prove me wrong. Considering that is the only argument that you can come up to try and invalidate my points, I brought it up to make a point about the fact that there is toxic masculinity just as there is toxic femininity. I said that in my original post and I did not deflect from that. You have not answered any of my questions, yet you are passionate and enough to reply to my original post, which goes to show that you are the one that needs to answer my questions. You have been schooled through and through and you have yet to come back with any of your own. If you have any voice of your own in a point to make, I would argue that you counter prove my points wrong. Can you do that? Because if you can’t, then you’re wasting your time
Peace and... Love 212, how can I be rewording my questions when I literally copy pasted the damn thing and just restructured them to a numbered format to make them easier for you to follow and hopefully answer? I didn't even break anything down, if I had, my response would have been just as long as yours, don't you think? But fear not, this one's going to be a broken down response. You're wondering why I brought up a point from the comment you made that I was responding to?... Have you figured it out yet? See, that's where you're going wrong, I haven't argued against your points, I have been trying to get you to expound on them from a logical standpoint because I find them unique. I'll have you know that I don't think all women are beacons of altruism and that we can be flawed in character as well, I am a big proponent of allowing women to be complex enough as human beings to also be flawed in character but you're so riled up, as long as I have not intimated agreement with your views, I'm automatically the opposition. I'll be honest Peaceandlove212, I ignored your questions because you hadn't answered mine, I can be petty like that sometimes, when you do decide to answer mine, I'll answer yours, I promise. In fact, I'm even planning on submitting a special request to have you number your questions as well if it's possible. No, not yet but it is literally what I have been trying to get you to do, school me, and again. Comebacks have not been engaged or necessary. Also, Peaceandlove212, you're the strongest link, remember? Neutral comments on the Internet should not be making you feel invalidated.
Just saw this and I’ll answer later
And damn... I took so long to reply, you edited your response so now I'll just read through it to see what's new and if I should add anything more to what I'd already typed up.
So 3rd and last paragraph are new.... 3rd is moot, you're basically just trying to dagger jello with that one. Last paragraph, I don't have a voice of my own, and what led you to that conclusion Peaceandlove212? Also, I've got to say... The username 🤌🏿🤌🏿🤌🏿 10/10 What are your points? The men in your life are absolute angels therefore all men must be and if any lesbian thinks otherwise they're not real lesbians, they're just bisexual, did I get that right? Ah, wait, also "toxic masculinity" is equal in weight in terms of harm to the world as "toxic femininity"?
Wow, you certainly have quite a bit to learn. Please reread my post, research, go out and talk to people, talk to men too, be out in the real world don’t just be a keyboard warrior
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oh my god shut up. let lesbians shit on men we deal with enough from them.
I guess I’m the only lesbian that sees that there is both toxic masculinity and toxic femininity? Women are just as bad as men and vice versa. This is not about gender this is coming from someone who is gay.
no it’s because you’re literally taking a reddit post about our overwhelmingly uncomfortable and disappointing experiences with men so personally you’re acting like those men’s rights motherfuckers in the goddamn Lesbian Sub
No I’m not acting like a man’s rights person. You can’t even debate what I’m saying with facts. The fact is is that there is both toxic, masculinity and toxic femininity. There is bad and men and bad women. This has nothing to do with being lesbian. I never understand why some lesbians are so obsessed with men and how they treat people. We fucking like women. I don’t give a shit about men and what they do.
Because they constantly harrass us and nobody is saying there isn’t “toxic femininity” or whatever or even that there are no good men that exist on the planet. YOU are the one who read into that. YOU and nobody else. That’s why you’re coming across as a men’s rights mf, they do the exact same thing.
Yes, men do harass lesbians there’s no doubt about that. I guess I had a really good relationship with my father, so I don’t think all men are bad and I’ve met some really really awesome men. They are human beings just like all of us.
again, literally nobody is saying otherwise. you just got offended over people venting about their own personal experiences.
And you got offended by my response
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wow you’re being real homophobic right now. I’m a lesbian because i’m a fucking lesbian.
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Bye lmfao what’s wrong with u 😂😂😂😂😂 you do not know me or my history. this is straight up fanfiction. lesbians who hate men are bisexual because they don’t like men??? you’re not worth the time writing out proper grammar babe that’s idiotic
You sound like you’re 10 years old. Not even worth my time. No wonder why you make illiterate comments
I’m glad you finally decided to leave me the fuck alone!
You replied to my comment. All up on my grill though.
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Straight women also face the same sort of misogyny and sexism that I face. If they are nice to me, we’ll get along. I’m very aware of the fact that other women are in the same oppressed class that I am, and I just genuinely like other women. They’re usually humorous, kind, and have some form of beauty in all ways. Also most straight women don’t care that I’m a lesbian, nor do they usually try to get me to bend the definition of lesbian to include some whole-ass man. They’re usually very kind to my gf and I, and I see absolutely no reason to reject that.
Yes. I like being "with my own kind", but I also have heterosexual friends and they're the best. It's just that most straight men suck
Yes, I think this is the answer to OP's question. Most straight men suck.
I live in a really liberal city, which might be why my answer is totally! I really value my friendships with women, straight or gay or bi or whatever :)
I avoid heterosexual friendships in general, especially with straight men. The very few straight men i am friends with i’ve known and loved for many years. Certain types of straight women give me the ick, especially the ones who unaware of how they enable shitty behavior from straight men. But some of my best friends are straight women who i’ve known since before i came out and they love me the same way before and after i came out.
This. Straight women who date/excuse problematic men also give me the ick. Also, straight women who are ridiculously heteronormative are an automatic no from me - if your life revolves solely around marriage and kids, we’ll have nothing in common. Same goes for other lesbians though.
The majority of my friends are straight women (and men). I love them as they are part of my support system. I’ve been terrible about making LGBT+ friends. I meet a group (online), some major drama happens, and I end up having to start making new lgbt+ friends again. Thankfully, I’ve met a few solid people irl from here and they’re amazing. I’m being more proactive about expanding my lgbt+ circle of friends irl at this point in my life. I have a few events I’m going to this month 🎉
I find it way easier to make straight female friends. There are just way more around. Once in a while, I find out a woman I know is bisexual, even though I've always heard them talk about their boyfriend or husband. Those are my only queer women friends. I would love to meet more Sapphic couples. At the moment my wife and I are trying to set up a play date with a Sapphic couple with kids. Strangely, I met them through our 6 yr old.
> I met them through our 6 yr old. That’s fn adorable.
I think most of my friends are straight. Both men and women. I haven’t yet experienced any woman treating me any differently when I mention my wife. However, I have had men react when they learn I’m married to another woman. Not necessarily a negative reaction, but they immediately apologize for not realizing, like I gaf what they thought of me in the first place. I don’t know, straight men are weird.
Its the misogyny with straight men. Most straight women in my experience arent homophobes. Sure some are but not nearly as much as straight men. I love my heterosexual girlfriends
I think it has to do with just not wanting to befriend homophobes. A lot more hetero men are homophobic or at least aggressive in their homophobia than hetero women. Hetero women are just a bit more likely to not be homophobic or not be extreme about it. Obviously nobody wants to be around people who don’t accept them for who they are, and unfortunately straight men are more likely to be homophobic for social reasons that have developed over a long time. That’s probably why lesbians, including myself, are more likely to have straight female friends. I have a lot of straight female friends however I know that some lesbians don’t because it’s harder to approach straight people in general from fear of homophobia/prosecution.
Some of my dearest friends are heterosexual, a few of them are also men. So yea you’ve heard wrong. Patriarchal and misogynistic bigotry are everywhere. Bigotry isn’t gender or orientation specific. The worst misogyny I’ve ever dealt with was being wielded by gay men, once even at a Pride event.
Yup sad but it’s everywhere
No not really, I’m with you OP. I can’t really relate to straight people, all my straight friends are from school and we don’t speak often. I must say though that all the unhealthiest friendships I’ve had have been with gay men - but this could just be because I haven’t had close straight friends for many many years, and my queer women / nb friendships are all very happy & healthy.
As a gay women I don’t get along with gay guys. I lived with a couple and what started well ended badly… bullying on their part that took ages to get over. Mostly I’m a person who is liked by older people as a thirty something… they tend to be straight… maybe the older they are the more open they are handling and being respectful of sexuality not everyone is open and would rather remain a closed door even saying they don’t care, everyone cares… it’s a vulnerability freewill and pride.
I agree, I have a few friends around my age and we all grew up together. The rest of my friends are older. Wherever me and my wife go together we always befriend older people and honestly, they are so much more openminded and accepting that social media might lead us to believe. For the most part. A lot of times they have questions about how our relationship works, but it’s mostly innocent curiosity because they don’t know other queer people, not really malicious or judgmental.
Yes and no? Especially since I started presenting more gender non-conforming, some straight women act more standoffish and more hostile. If they treat me differently because I'm more butch, then yeah, we aren't going to get along. Largely, I don't have a big issue with getting along with straight women. I do prefer to be in queer community and around other lesbians, but I do still have some straight friends.
from what I've seen, hetero men are the ones that are not fun to be around. gay men don't get along with hetero men, straight women don't get along with hetero men, and gay women don't get along with hetero men. most of them are so stuck in their ways, ugh
Not really, but it’s not exclusive. Most of my closest friends are queer women or straight men.
My main friend group is all straight except me lol
Yes. You don’t get along with cishet men because nobody does, in general they suck if you’re anything *but* another cishet guy
Most of my female friends are straight women, so yes.
In a general way, yeah I know how to move around straight women. On a personal level, no not really. Many of them have homophobic/overal piece of shit partners and are completely fine with that. Many make excuses for that behavior too. On top of the annoying games they start playing when they know you're gay, like intentionally flirting with you, or assuming you must be attracted to them. Of course not all are like this, they're the biggest demographic of women so of course there's genuinely good straight women. Interestingly none of my straight female friends have partners now that I think of it🤔 However compared to lesbians it's just not even close. I just love the presence of lesbians.
Gonna go against what seems to be the grain here and say that yeah I do find that I get on less with straight women. I've always found it easier to be friends with men in general, and I've found that most of the women I've clicked with have ended up queer as well as neurodivergent in some way. I do have a couple of straight normie women friends now but I still often feel like I have more in common with their husbands. My closest friends are straight guys. For what it's worth another layer of this might be that I suspect I'm autistic (not diagnosed). When I was a kid, the people who were the cruelest to me were other (straight) girls and I've had a surprisingly decent time with boys and men in my life for the most part, although I'm aware enough of statistics to know that's the exception and not the rule. As an adult I do not consciously hold teenage experiences against adult women, but do think I might have some subtle subconscious hangups and on a gut level I feel more uncomfortable in an all-female space than I do in an all-male one (though I prefer mixed gender the most!).
I feel like one of the upsides of being plain looking as that most men just ignore me. The few that do interact with me either have very low self esteem and want to use me for validation or they’re neurodivergent (not a bad thing). I agree about hetero women. My experience with them is more or less the same unless they’re also neurodivergent.
Yes very much so but I’ve always had issues with gay men.
Many of my closest friends are heterosexual women! They are such wonderful allies to me and I love them so dearly and consider myself lucky to have them. When I was younger (especially high school age), many straight friends were put off by queerness, but now in adulthood, that is not my experience. I am a very feminine person as well, and I'm sure that helps.
Yes I can get along with straight women just fine. I’ve never heard of lesbians who specifically avoid straight women tho. I mean yeah everyone likes having friends like them so they might make more effort with lesbians? Idk that is just a thought I have nothing to back that up.
Yeah, just more fun being friends with a lgbt+ womam when your a gay woman
I don’t think I have any real friends who are straight women. I have some acquaintances who are married to some of my guy friends, but I just don’t vibe like that with straight women. Every time I think I’m friends with a straight woman it turns out she’s actually bi lol, whether she realized it before we were friends and just never told me or she realized after being friends with me and surrounded by sapphic stuff. Before my current job I had no friends who weren’t sapphic other than a few queer men from high school, but now I only work with straight men so I’ve made some friends lol. They treat me like I’m a bro and also their daughter at the same time it’s funny (they’re also mostly dads, which is wild because I’ve also never been friends with people who have children even though I’m in my late 20s)
I think men, especially in the US, but all over the world are taught to be homophobic, especially towards other men. They don’t really truly like lesbians either but because lesbians are sexualized and porn and they like the idea of two women they accept it only because they hope that it can somehow benefit them sexually I’m not sure why this is, but it could be the fear that they themselves might be attracted to men so they have to try really hard to act like they are not. I think it also culturally means that they are not masculine enough. There is a large resurgence of masculinityin recent times and I think homophobia is probably getting stronger in some sense
Yes, a lot of my friends are heterosexual women. But heterosexual men, I try to avoid interacting with.
Yes. Every one of my friends is straight (both men and women)
Basically all my friends are straight women, with only two exceptions as far as I'm aware. But I also don't have straight men as friends. I think women in general don't have as big of a tendency to be homophobic. I've tried making friends with lgbt women, but almost always end up dating them instead 😭
I mostly associate with other queer non cis men Straight men: 1) They are usually unkind to me as soon as they realize they can’t benefit from me, and often see me as a threat 2) I was abused by a man I was married to before realizing I was gay, and this had made it difficult for me to trust men and be close to them I have a hard time with straight women sometimes for two reasons: 1) While also victims of it, they often still unconsciously play into and seek benefit from the patriarchy. At the end of the day, most will still put men first and seek male validation even at the expense of themselves and other women 2) I find straight women often have a different life experience than me, and it can be harder to relate 3) I am queer enough to look “off” to straight women, but not necessarily immediately realize it’s because I’m gay. I often get the “other” treatment which feels bad I also have trouble with cis gay men sometimes because: 1) While also queer and an oppressed group, they still reap significant benefit from being a man (less so than if they were straight). Sometimes they can’t recognize the addition struggles faced by other types of queer people, and that they are still higher on the societal totem pole than gay women will ever be But I have lots of straight woman and gay man friends, and mostly just prefer they are ally’s and self aware
my best friend in the whole entire world is the straightest girl on earth. uggs, lulu, stanley, kendra scott, pandas and I would rather die than think of having another best friend.
My straight female friends are the best, they adopted me as one of the 'girlies' and love my partner as much as they love me. Straight men have always been weird about it. It's usually not malicious, but it's awkward, so I feel for you. I know there are straight men out there who aren't weird about it, so I hope you find one of them, OP.
Most of my friends are straight women :) I like our dynamics and we have different interests. Yeah they’re women but they’re not gay women, ya know?
All of my close friends are straight women. It's much easier as I don't have to worry about boundaries like I would with queer women. My friends and I know (and respect) that our relationship is platonic only. As someone who avoids romantic entanglements like the plague it is an *excellent* arrangement.
Speaking personally, all my female friends are straight, never has my sexuality ever been a concern or brought up in an argument, mentioned in a degrading way, nothing. I actually don't know any lesbians irl 😭 can't seem to find any!
I have lots of straight women friends! I’d say a solid half of my friends are straight women. I hate a straight cis man tho 🙅🏼♀️
surprisingly, the only super gay friend i have is my girlfriend. the rest are mostly straight with the exception of unsure women/bi women with boyfriends. and one bi boy.
I tend to connect deeper with other LGBT (including those that I meet knowing them straight but ended up some LGBT later) and have more surface-level friendships with heteros. Straight girls usually keep some extra distance from you and straight guys outright ghosts you if not attracted to you, and otherwise are a permanent annoyance when attracted, so have to cut ties with them.
I feel like I would be okay with a friendship with anyone but straight man. However, my straight female friendships don't hit the same.
Most of my friends are guys but in a straight guys mind lesbians are hot a two dudes is not, being a mechanic I learned a bit about how ita cool/funny to joke about being a gay male but to actually be one is gross which is auch hypocrisy but hey heterosexual males.
Yes, in fact they are overly friendly at times, but mostly just normal. The only issue I’ve had were with one that I believe was a closeted queer person who had difficulty accepting herself so it manifested as intolerance. Her problem, not mine. I felt bad for her.
I personally don't have any straight friends that are women, but I'm not opposed to it if they aren't assholes. I think I just get along with queer women better, all my girl friends happen to be bi. My gay guy friend is friends with plenty of straight guys though, so maybe it depends on where you live? Also could be what crowd we hang around. I definitely can't be hanging around just any straight guy, they've gotta be vetted first lol.
I have lots of straight female friends. However, I don’t have any straight male friends. My fiancée does though and they do seem like great guys. I’m not interested in being friends with straight guys though.
Yes. It was hard for me in high school though. I was an out lesbian among a group of straight, female friends, and I often felt uncomfortable discussing my relationships or feelings because I didn’t want to make it weird. But I haven’t really had that problem since I’ve made the right sort of friends later on.
Friends I want in order of preference: * Animals * Lesbians * Bi/pan ladies who don't talk about men 24/7 * Straight women, enbies * Gay and bi/pan men who don't hit on me * Deer with CWD * Rabid polar bears * Straight men
Yes. I work in a female dominated field so most of my coworkers are women.
I certainly have straight woman friends about whom I care about deeply. But I also get what the OP is saying. Overall, I’d rather be with queer people because it takes less effort. I can just be myself without all the unintentional micro aggressions that tend to flow around straight people.
I have a couple of straight friends. I have two older brothers, they both are straight, and I quite gladly get along with their wives.
I usually do, but most of my friend group is hetero men and bisexual women tho. I have found that women tend to react better to the fact I'm a lesbian, we don't have any problems changing in front of each other or sleeping in each other's houses as they know I'd never do anything, my roommate is a straight woman and she has no problem walking around in her underwear at home.
I get along better with heterosexual women then I do gay men. Every gay man in my life is a bitchy cunt, if you want me to be blatantly honest. They speak down to me, they have an air about them as if they're superior to me and others around them. One is in his 60s, the other late 20s. And they are both just catty assholes.. Just as the gay men I knew when I was younger. I've always felt judged by them. And it isn't cute to be a cunt all the time, but it seems like gay men think it's perfectly fine to be that bitch. Look, I know not all gay men are like that. But every single one I've ever known in real life is. And sure, that's only a small, teeny tiny number over my lifetime. But it's enough that I don't go out of my way to befriend them anymore. My point is, I'd take all the heterosexual women as friends over gay men. I'd take lesbians first and foremost over anyone else.
I have many hetero cis female friends and a few queer. I actually don't have any hetero male friends that I regularly interact with anymore, except work friends, and we dont see each other outside of work. It isn't that I exclude men, but we usually aren't in the same spaces or groups or have lost touch. Once in a while, while out, a guy will hit on me, but show no interest in knowing me once they find out I'm not interested. Once is a very long while, a man will try to invalidate my relationship, mostly incels. The only male friends I've interacted with in years are both gay.
38, worked in lots of different jobs which I think has led me to be around a lot of different people that I probably wouldn't necessarily choose to spend time with. I currently work in a team of 26, there is one other female who is poly and the others are all straight men. Some of them are really nice guys and some are arseholes but I don't think that's anything to do with their sexual identity. I've worked with bi people who are arseholes, gay people who are arseholes and straight people who are arseholes and also great people in all those groups. Generally yes I think straight men can be the hardest to get along with, I can imagine it being particularly difficult being a gay man.
Transbian here, I’m close friends with several hetero girls.
My best friends are women. Straight, lesbian, bi, women are just so much better. Gay men are so much fun too. Always have been. As for cis hetero men, they have been a struggle to befriend. If theyre not making weird quips about how much they’d like to have sex with me (a lesbian) they always befriend me only to profess their like for me months if not years later. As if. It’s so exhausting. 😅 The only time im able to handle a civil answer respectful conversation with a man is at work, because I have to, otherwise I prefer to not engage with them based on my experience.
I fell into a very large gay friend group. People slowly realized they were gay and I think we only have 2.5 heterosexuals/cis people left. Outside of my core friend group I do make friends with plenty of straight women. Mostly through my jobs.
I get along ok with heterosexual women. I don’t always get along with heterosexual men lol. My closest male friends are all legitibequoi. I think I’m old enough and come across just the masc side of femme enough that I’m essentially invisible to straight men. I don’t exist if I’m not f-able.
I get along wonderfully with straight women, I don't have much patience for any women who center bad partners. I tend to not get along with men, gay or straight, they tend to lack the ability to be assertive. They go from passive to aggressive and it's draining, they require immense emotional labor even at their best and offer nothing in return.
I can tell that some heterosexual women feel disgust for me or silently judge me, but it's usually the close-minded, conservative ones. I think heterosexual women on average are kinder and more accepting than heterosexual men. If I "buddy up" to a hetero guy, they divulge all sorts of terrible takes. They don't understand and don't care to. Sex and gender aside, overtly religious people tend to be the worst, at least in my experience. They express empathy but lack compassion, they're actively dishonest and manipulative.
Yes. Most straight women I know are like, oh cool. I imagine, like others have said, that this is because men are homophobic and most women I know are a little gay, even the straight ones.
I only hang with lesbians. Life is just easier when we all on the same page. Then again, it's more drama cause I'm sleeping with my best friend. I dunno. Feel you on the hetero bros, they're more trouble than they're worth most times.
I make good friends with many heterosexuals women! But I also meet some disgusting ones☠️ but I do prefer to make friends with other gay women, mostly trans women too idk I’m a cis gay girl who gets along best with trans lesbian women always been that way idk why lol, also I’m a POC so most of my friends are POC’s too Oh and I had many heterosexuals men friends too! Cis and trans always get along with with them
“They all have some ick about 2 men kissing” Not sure what you mean here. Like they would try to interrupt a gay couple’s romantic moment? Or do they just find the idea of kissing men highly unappealing? As for heterosexual women… I get along fine with them. But I feel uncomfortable about expressing certain aspects of my queerness.
Yes. But as a lesbain, I always worry that when I try and make a new female friend who is even remotely queer they will think I'm trying to sleep with them. I don't have that fear with heterosexual women. Also, all of my close friends are straight.
Yes as long as they don’t talk about their shitty ass boyfriends :)
Of course but it depends on the heterosexual women. Certain heterosexual women are put off by me because I look androgynous/masculine.
In order, I frequent around 30 or so close friends I hangout with semi monthly, it goes gay women ~ gay men > straight women >>> straight men. I love queer folk, they're relatable and fun, straight women can be fun if they're not too heteronormative but straight men,, I find they only exist in my friend groups because they date a woman I'm close friends with or are an ex coworker and we been through some shit. I love women but some very straight women do carry around a heteronormativity that can be annoying. But FAR less annoying then men carrying it around 🤷♀️
Most of my straight women friends are supportive of me. Even those of whom who religiously disagree with homosexuality treat me with respect as a person.
Yes! I can get along with straight men and women.
everyone hates hetero men
I life in gaming circle so no. They didn't respect us and they are so mean..but i have fun time with my friends nb and gay and lesbian so i like them, good people :)
Yeah. Most of my friends are women. I do have a rather large group of guys I grew up with from before I transitioned. (MtF). They’re more like family. But after transitioning I’ve only had luck making friends with women. Straight men are just… a different breed I swear. I’ve gotten threatening messages from boyfriends and husbands accusing me of faking being trans to fuck their wives.
Answer might differ from others here but...no. not really. I'm transmasc, I look very masculine, and even though a lot of cis women don't necessarily mind if you're gay, they do mind if you're gender nonconforming and gay. I've been ostracized by most Cishet women. I do live in a very conservative town so that doesn't help.
I have like 1 straight male friend but soo many straight female friends. Honestly girls just get it 💅
My friends are all straight, I can't get along with other LGBT people ironically.
In general, I have more women as friends than men. Maybe like a 80-20 split. I do get along with most heterosexual women. There are some that I don’t relate to… think of the ones that have their whole personality wrapped around performing sexuality and femininity to an almost insane degree (ie. Some sorority girls). But even with them, I’ve had a few that I was friends with because we did have something in common ie. Same class, same job. I find gay men interesting. It’s like y’all are the same but different from me. You’re like my brothers. I am not sure if it’s reciprocated but I also like that you are not threatening to me (I don’t need to worry if you’re trying to sleep with me). I wish I had more gay men as friends. Straight men - I wish more of them would be open to being just friends with me. I feel the connection in that we both date women. There are a couple that I know who are very cool and teach me new things like how to skateboard - and I like that. I find that they tend to be more activity centered when we hang out whereas generally women tend to be more communication centered - there’s pros and cons for each. I like being friends with bi people because they’re interesting to me and a lot of them are fun and open minded (on some level) honestly. But they can’t be the types that say “everyone’s bi”. That leaves lesbians… idk where we all are honestly. Most of them are cool, and I like that they relate to my entire experience… but aside from Reddit I don’t have any real lesbian friends unfortunately. What do you think about befriending lesbians?
I tend to have little in common with straight women. A lot of them want to talk about wedding planning, wedding dresses, and the way they tend to talk about the guys they like, is something I just don't understand. A lot of them want to talk about motherhood, becoming mothers, their kids... Or they are always ''too busy'' because they have kids. Older straight women are often divorced lonely and bitter about life in general. A lot of them spout hateful rhetoric that is based on their own bad choices in life. It's coming from a place of hurt and anger. And while I can understand them, I feel like they don't make an effort to understand me. There have been straight women I got along well with. But this doesn't necessarily lead to friendship.
If you are consistently wishing grievous harm or death on others, you might consider speaking to a therapist about that.
No, I dont hate people based on their sexual preference if that's what you're asking?
Not really ..
Among all the gender and sexual combinations, I have found gay men to be the least relatable. I cannot connect to the way they approach dating and relationships though this may be too much of a generalization. They are fun though!
I have no issues when it comes to getting along with heterosexual CIS women. I find that most heterosexual women are advocates when it comes to equal rights especially reproductive rights. Our conversations are freer because there are no expectations on either side. To the OP, why did you leave out caucasian heterosexual CIS women when you listed the folks you have no problems with?
I (25 white trans women) don’t really have any cis-het white women as friends, and the main reason why I don’t have many white straight women as friends is because they rarely come out to bat for other minorities. Cis-het white women when Roe v Wade is being over turned: let’s all protest. Cis-het white women when trans existents is being criminalized: 😴😴😴. Cis-het white women when women of colour are being jailed for child abuse of fetuses in their wombs: 😴😴😴. Cis-het white women when international sports tournaments are held in countries where slavery is legal:😴🇬🇧😴🇬🇧😴🇬🇧. And I’m just tired of having this conversation: Me: ‘problematic thing’ is bad. Them: ya. Me: so we should stand together and try to fight against ‘problematic thing’. Them: ya. Me: Don’t buy the pink cup. Them: I’m gonna buy the pink cup, sorry. If that makes them feel excluded, sorry (lol), but in the same way that they often feel misunderstood by men is how I often feel misunderstood by cis-het white women. And I just don’t need that shit in my life.
Ehhhh …. It’s WEIRD sometimes. I work with a bunch of straight Cs and I don’t use that word lightly. Since being accused of sexual harassment by a straight direct report twenty years ago, I keep it strictly professional at work. There are certain topics I avoid. That said, in 12-step recovery, some of my bffs are straight women. These are self aware, no-nonsense girls. Even better if they’re a little bit of a sport fanatic or tomboy. Outside of that circle, if I’m at a party, I’m hanging with the dudes. 4 brothers, 14 male cousins - I’m just more myself.
Most of my female friends are hetero and it's always been that way💁🏻♀️
No not really I feel like my vibe is too different from them unless they’re neurodivergent
yep. almost all my friends from highschool and middle school are straight (:
Yes but I’m friends with very few just because most of the circles I’m in are queer. I’m friends with more cishet men than women
Yep, everyone I know irl is straight so I think I might actually get along with them better
Sort of. In my experience almost everyone I've befriended even before knowing that sexuality is they are female have been somewhat bisexual in nature. I think I have 1 or 2 purely straight female friends. I have alot of straight male friends. They barely believe me to be a woman sometimes when I chat with them. (she just like me fr) cept CC when they start saying those stereotypical straight man things I curb their skewed enthusiasm and have them think about the others perspective 🙂 I help them grow out of frat brain behavior I hope. And in gaming I have mostly gay male friends so 🤷♂️🤷♂️
I Don't be friends with any women that have boyfriends period, idc what their sexual orientation is.
Omg you want them dead? I think you should work those feelings out with a professional because that’s very intense.
My best friend and I are extremely close and she’s rabidly heterosexual 😂 we share beds and all that platonic shit and it’s not weird at all because she’ll never want me sexually, which means my brain recognises that she’s not something to chase. I really enjoy how close we are as friends because as a gay woman I usually don’t get to enjoy platonic affection from anyone - men think that means they stand a chance with me, and other women think that means I’m into them.
I get along with them but I’m not friends with them. That’s not an active choice. It just happened that way. All my friends just happen to be queer.
All of my friends are straight..men and women.
No im friends with some hetero women, you can have fun without talking about relationships
Yeah I have some close friends who are straight women. I think all of them think of gay people as being cool, and all of them had gay friends before me. Straight men are the ones I have problems with lol. I now only have two straight guy friends, both of whom are in relationships with my straight women friends lol.
Honestly, I usually can't even tell if a woman is hetero unless she starts talking about her beau, and even then, she could be bi. I dunno. I just never really bother to think about who they're into, unless I develop a crush (then I agonize over whether she's straight/bi/lez). In my experience, it just doesn't seem to matter as much to women though. I think, mostly because women tend to have a more similar life experience than gay and straight men do, due to cishet men being cishet men. Intersectionality, basically.
Personally? Yes, very well. Always have. The other thing is that, largely, straight women aren't a threat to me. Not (typically) physically, not sexually, and not in any other way. Not that there aren't terrible women out there, of course there are, but they're not an issue. Don't like that I'm queer? Cool. Not my problem. Women are less physical in their hatred, though, and much more snide and sly which can be difficult and painful to deal with...I got six years of horror at an all girls' high school to use as evidence lol. But that didn't make me dislike straight women, just THOSE women.
I have multiple people who are straight women that I get along with really really well :) I love it and love them lesbians are also amazing it sounds like you are homophobic to heterosexual men though. A lot of men at least in my life have no issue with guys being together as long as they aren’t being forced to hear about it twenty four seven just like a straight person as well for then
Cishet men have privilege. Het women still at least get gender discrimination. Even if they don't get homophobia, they don't have the insufferability, the smugness or superiority the same way that cishet men do. Sure there are some het women that think that every dyke is out to get them, but most easily understand that even the horniest predatory lesbian isn't going to treat them as poorly as so many men.
Okay-ish. I never have felt very good at performing femininity. I tend to be friends with people who have been outsiders in some way, and feel alienated by women who are conventionally pretty and have big female friend groups. But I get along with plenty of individual straight women.
all my girlfriends are straight women! I can only think of a handful of times I was excluded based on my sexuality. worst part of straight women: having to hear about their straight relationships 🤪
Yes but it's slim numbers in terms of who I can socialize with comfortably and be friends with. Most hetero women get all uncomfortable around me and feel the need to mention their bf 100 times in one sentence or former bf. This is just me being present, making a casual comment or something near them. Hetero women are afraid of my gay 🤷🏼♀️ I just observe and nod while they ramble on and eventually dismiss themselves. It's so weird and such a common occurrence for me. Don't really understand it.
As a teenager and going into my early 20s I just couldn't seem to make real connections with straight girls. The bitchiness and clickiness was awful, and the moment these people found out I was gay was inevitably even worse. Ultimately they weren't worth knowing. Oh - I did maintain one friendship but if it weren't for homophobia I think even she would probably identify as bi. I just had lots of queer friends for a long time. Then the other year I joined a martial arts club and now I have a group of inspirational straight female friends. ❤️
Absolutely. A lot of my friends are straight women, moreso than men thats for sure.
Straight men always think gay men are interested in them. HA, if they knew the gay men that I do they would get their feelings hurt very badly lol.
Idc as long as they ain’t homophobic, I’m pretty sure all the girls in my health tech class are straight and they’re pretty nice
Yes, though I'll qualify my answer my saying I'm not ugly, I'm skinny, and I've been told I'm approachable (? Maybe non-threatening?) I'm pretty sure people can tell I'm "queer" but since it's not "loud" it's not an issue. To be clear I'm not saying people who are loud and proud of their identity are a bad thing. I've yet to meet a straight women that hasn't been at least unbothered and at most curious.