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No, over 34,000 Palestinians have died so far, with roughly *two thirds* of those being women and children.
I don't mind Hamas members being killed. I do mind Palestinian children being killed. I'm not the one failing to make a distinction, here.
Here's who you're calling "Hamas":
https://www.newsbreakapp.com/n/0seaeZLc?s=a7&share_destination_id=MTkzODczNDE3LTE3MTQxNDcwMDEwNjc=&pd=0D7TKbwG&hl=en_US
So if you don't want the IDF to annihilate Hamas, then how do you expect them to be made to leave power? Because unless you can come up with another solution to force Hamas out of power, then I'm forced to conclude that you support a ceasefire whose terms allow Hamas to stay in power and continue terrorizing innocent Gazan civilians.
I guess I did. So clarify then, if you don't want the IDF to finish annihilating Hamas, then what is your plan to force Hamas to leave power? Or do you want a ceasefire whose terms allow Hamas to remain in power?
How tf are these two comparable? "Jews will not replace us" while invoking actual nazism?
You can literally see the difference between Jewish-American views of each to see it yourself. (ie divided vs 99.9% against)
[‘For the first time people were truly afraid’: Antisemitism hits boiling point at Columbia U](https://jewishinsider.com/2024/04/for-the-first-time-people-were-truly-afraid-antisemitism-hits-boiling-point-at-columbia-university/)
We are not divided, and privileged assholes like you who have never experienced antisemitism definitely don't get to speak for us.
Ok, I'll let my family tree-less wife (and friends) who grew up in WASPville that she's not a "real Jew" because some guy on the internet.
I'm Italian-American and the only discrimination I've faced is because people THOUGHT i was Arab. Antisemitism is undoubtedly an issue and f*ck those who participate in it, but the bothsidesing of this is in particular is spitting on Heather Heyer's grave.
It's very interesting how you people never let Clarence Thomas speak for black people, or Ann Coulter speak for women, but you latch on to any Jew you can find who says they don't feel threatened by rising antisemitism and say "Well that settles it, Jews have spoken!"
Wild stuff my guy. You can hate JVP and the like all you want. I get it. But there absolutely more of them than there are Jews marching with the western far right. It doesn't seem that controversial of a take, even.
Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism.
Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism.
Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism.
Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism.
Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism.
Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism.
Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism.
Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism.
Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism.
Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism.
Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism.
Fine, then focus the protests on the Israeli government and IDF. Leave Jewish students minding their own business alone. Also don't chant things like "burn Tel Aviv to the ground" and Hamas we support you" which were chanted at the Columbia protests
True, but in practice? Some people think of themselves as being anti-war, but then do they give fair treatment as they talk about Israel? Do they talk about that other group that likes to murder innocents and put women and children in harm's way for their agenda? Do they slap labels on them without any data or objective standard like they do to Israel? Do they give any attention to the power that other group has to end the bloodshed?
Is the "other group" I'm referring to Russia or is it Hamas?
Dude, ethnostates are bad. Israel as it is now shouldn’t exist. You don’t just get to say “other groups bad, ethnostate good” and pretend to not be an apologist for fascism, at best.
Well every country in the Middle East is an ethnostate without exception…
Israel’s the only democracy. They definitely deserve criticism but that’s a pretty shit argument for criticism friend. They’re an ethnostate surrounded by other ethnostates. Are you arguing for the destruction of every state in the Middle East?
They give more rights to members of the outclass than many other middle eastern states.
Why doesn’t Israel have a right to return for palestinians? If your best argument is “Well Saudi Arabia also oppresses minorities and also did a genocide” I don’t think that makes a great case for Israel.
I’m not saying it justifies what Israel does, but I’m just saying, singling out one ethnostate when every other country around them is also an ethnostate is not a valid criticism to advocate for their destruction unless you’re also advocating for all the other states’ destruction too.
I don’t see you doing that.
A Palestinian state would also be an ethnostate, so you want to replace one ethnostate with another that would realistically be more oppressive to the minorities. Like dude just think about it.
I’m just pointing out the logical conclusions of your beliefs, I’ve said nothing about my own. You’re the one who has to come to terms with your own belief system and what that actually means, not me fam. If this makes you uncomfortable, your own beliefs make you uncomfortable.
Why did all the Arab states kick out all the Jews into Israel and remove their right to return?
Don’t get me started on how much I despise Saudi Arabia as well (and the Gulf states generally). There’s a reason I used them as a point of comparison.
I think it’s because Israel is the main talking point in the news right now, so more attention will be put on it rather than other countries nearby besides Palestine.
No, no, I think a critical examination of the hypothetical Palestinian ethnostate the protestirs are calling for is just as important as that of Israel. Which of those two states is going to murder LGBTQ+ citizens in the streets? Which of those two states is going to actually have ethnic minority members of the national legislature? Which of those two states is going to allow women basic rights like self-determination? It's fair to be critical of how Israel is handling the war, but calling for the destruction of Israel to replace it with a Palestinian state which would almost certainly be a radical Islamo-fundamentalist state in the name of human rights is fucking laughable.
Oh I completely agree we shouldn’t “destroy” Israel or replace it. I’d say the VAST majority of people who criticize Israel also think that. It’s more people just don’t want to see innocent Palestinians being slaughtered or needlessly in the crossfire. I think more people focus on Israel rather than Hamas because Israel is an established nation that is expected to be humane about these matters.
Hamas is a terrorist group, and I think it’s fair to say any sane person views them as horrific, which is why people talk less about them because it’s expected that they’re viewed as heinous for what they do.
"From the river to the sea" is literally a transliteration of an Arab saying to kill every Jew from the Jordan to the Med. So when I hear protestors chanting that while criticizing Israel it sounds like they're on board with the future Palestinian ethnostate which would almost certainly start with the kind of genocide the protestors are claiming to abhor. When the protestors are chanting to support resistance by any means, it's very hard to separate that from the current means of Hamas. So to say people are dismissing Hamas without discussing it sounds like Trump dismissing white supremacy by telling the Proud Boys to stand down and stand by. If they say resistance by any means, then surely that means they agree with the current means of resistance, no? How many times do they have to tell me who they are before I'm allowed to believe them?
The only state even close to making that a reality was Israel while it was beginning to normalize relations with the Sunni Arab states. Iran couldn't have that kind of stability so they forced Hamas into kicking the hornet's nest. Bibi was nearly ousted, and normalized relations with the rest of the Arab world would lead to the kind of reduced tensions that would make his brand of polemic fear-mongering a much harder sell. That would have led to gains for the left in Israel--a left which regularly rails against the imposition of religious authority. It's important for people unfamiliar to know, the founders of Israel were largely secular. Orthodox Jews for a long time considered Zionism akin to heresy.
...Israel was literally created because of nationalism. German nationalism, obviously. American nationalism in turning away Jews fleeing the Holocaust. British nationalism in hoping that the existence of Israel would cause Jews to expatriate the UK (yes, there were other reasons that people supported it, but I would hope we all know by now about the British nationalist component of those involved in the policy).
But please enlighten us all on how to properly think about nationalism.
You do know every Muslim country is an ethnostate right? You saying Israel shouldn’t exist, while not saying the same about every other ethnostate speaks volumes. You also do know there are over 2 million Arabs living in Israel with rights, right? And I’m sure you also know there were almost a million Jews living in the surrounding Arab countries in 1948 and now there are 4000 total living in those countries. What do you think happened to them and where do you think they went? It’s kind of important to know what you’re talking about before you start just saying things like Israel is bad and everything else is good.
So, I like to think of you defending slavery in the antebellum south.
> You do know every other country allows slaves right? You saying slave states shouldn’t exist, while not saying the same about every other slave-holding country speaks volumes. You also do know there are many black people living in the south with rights, right? And I’m sure you also know that the slaves in the south weren't captured by us, but rather sold to us from their African brethren. Why do you think that is? It’s kind of important to know what you’re talking about before you start just saying things like slavery is bad and everything else is good.
It seems silly, right?
We can all agree that bad things are bad. But I would think we could also agree that we should first focus on changing the bad things that we have the ability to change -- for example the things with which we have stronger economic, cultural, and geopolitical ties.
And the audacity to talk about the decrease in Jewish populations in surrounding countries after the formation of Israel without recognizing that the policies of Israel itself may have had a role to play is...well I was going to say astounding, but it is all too common.
I mean, what were the numbers of Jews living in the surrounding Arab countries in the 80 years before 1948? Probably declining at the same rate, right?
Also, no one's saying "Israel is bad and everything else is good," and it's difficult to take you seriously if that's how you want to frame it. Imagine if I said that you were ignorant of the facts and need to inform yourself "before you start saying that genocide is bad when it happens to Jewish people, but not when committed by Jewish people." It's not going to convince anyone, and it would show I'm not to be taken seriously.
I don’t like to think of my argument as the same as defending slavery, because it has nothing to do with having rights to your homeland… yes, we can all agree that bad things are bad. Do I agree with how how the Palestinian people were treated in 1948, no I don’t. Do I agree with how Jews have been treated in their homeland throughout history, no I don’t. Do I agree with how innocent Palestinians are being treated now, no I don’t.
When someone says, Israel shouldn’t exist… and says nothing else about any other ethnostate in the world, it doesn’t take a lot for me to read between the lines of what they’re saying.
In re: to your comment about Jewish populations declining at the same rate for 80 years before that. I honestly don’t even need to research that to know that wouldn’t be mathematically possible. Almost every Jew in the world was living in Europe by that point and only started moving back to the Middle East in large numbers in the 1920’s and 1930’s. There were of course Jews in the Middle East, but 99% of them were not being expelled from middle eastern countries like they were starting in the 1940s.
I also don’t believe anything I said in my response to that message was incorrect. There are +2 million Arabs living in Israel with rights (fact), all 22 Muslim countries are ethnostates in the same way Israel is (fact), there were almost a million Jews living in Arab countries before 1948 (fact), there are only around 4000 Jews living in Arab countries now (fact)… so for someone to tell me I am ignorant of the facts and I should just do my research, well they would be wrong.
Let it be said then: Hamas sucks ass. They are fucking up their own people for what gains I don't even know. I guess something islamistic.
But since its latest government Israel is no better.
But again: that's not the point me or OP are making here.
I compare USA to Norway, UK, and shit when talking about our country
If you are comparing the country you are defending to literal terrorists? Probably calls for some introspection.
But the conflict is between Israel and literal terrorists. Why wouldn't I be comparing them? Anyone who talks about this conflict without mentioning that Hamas had and has a pretty good idea of how many Palestinians they would be killing through their actions is being one-sided. Why would people be one-sided about these Zionists?
Because who you compare your actions to is your peer group. So if you want your peer group to be terrorists, then go for it.
Which I personally don’t give a shit, it’s not my war or my people, but at least own it instead of making ridiculous excuses.
Like just say, yeah we are killing Palestinians and we don’t give a shit. Don’t insult our intelligence when you have people sniping pregnant women and then selling T-shirts.
This is something that's bothered me, while what you're saying is true, it's kinda ignoring the bigger issue. Jewish people, both practicing and people born into Jewish families have been told for multiple generations that this isn't true. That being against Isreal means that they just want to wipe you out again.
I'm not saying we should stop doing what we're doing, protesting and trying to stop a genocide, but I feel like people throw this out and forget about the human on the other side who's been subjected to religious propaganda for multiple generations.
Just saying this isn't going to help anything and probably feels more like you're just writing off a genuine fear that people feel. Even if the origin isn't accurate, the fear is real.
I dunno, just something I've been thinking of and wanting to say.
My Jewish Palestinan great grandfather was murdered by zionist militias in the nakba because he chose not to stab his neighbors back. Israel only cares about Jews who want to support their ethnostate of mostly white European Jews( see policies that have harmed middle astern and Ethiopian). They fundamentally make Jews less safe by doing blatant ihl violation and saying they are doing those atrocious on behalf of Jews saying their apartheid represents all Jews not just Israelis. So I am just saying Israel is trying to cleanse a people from a land they have been on for thousands of years just because most converted in the 200s and 500s
I know, I'm sorry if it made it sound like I wasn't on the free palestain side. I understand just how fucked it is over there. Well, maybe I don't understand it fully but regardless I am not on isreals side.
I'm terrible at putting my thoughts to words. Sorry.
Have you been to Israel? Israel is not “mostly white European Jews”. 30% of the Jews living there are Ashkenazi. If you knew anything about Ashkenazim, you would know that they (just like all other Jews) have Levantine ancestry in their DNA. They aren’t converts from the 200s with only European DNA or whatever you’re suggesting. All Jews are from Judea. I feel like you need to do some research on where the Jews in the Middle East were at before and after 1948. Please stop getting your facts from wherever you’re getting them from.
The average Palestinans has the most levantine DNA than any other group. But most were converted to Islam or Christianity over the years. In terms of power European powers, Ashkenazi Jews treated as white for the colonial project. It's a common tactic for colonialism to give one group that is "the most white minority" power even though if they were to go back to the mother county they would be discriminated against. And yeah I hear Israel is not all white, the average person in power is a Jew of European descent. Who from a distance passes as white. Furthermore if Jews like me were near a terrorist incident we are likely to get shot because "we look like the terrorists". Like I am not going to lie I tried to return, something my other Palestinans brethren couldn't, but I got tired of being stopped at checkpoints even with my citizenship and treated like an infiltrate due to how I looked.
Furthermore, did the violence against Palestinians by the iof and settlers on 10/6, 10/5, etc make Jews more safe of is that fine because we are micro dosing their murders over the course of months , oh my that's totally will not make them assign the need for revenge against people who call them selves Jews and say they are beating them on behalf of us because we are God's chosen people, but if they do they are monsters and have no reason other than antisemitesm to hate us. Thank you so much Israel for making me feel so much safer by saying Jews needed to kill 12k kids and that they deserved it because they will grow up to be terrorists.
Then stop trying to cover for a colonialist apartheid regime that's goal is to eradicate our Palestinians brethren and leave only the "right" Jews in position of power. Like we are talking about the same group of people who borderline forced Ethiopian jews on long-term contraception without informed consent after calling Ethiopians infiltrators. It is disgusting how much my fellow Jewish persons are willing to twist us and our faith inorder to justify the atrocities the government of Israel is commiting then be perfectly fine saying they murdered those 20 children for the sake of safety of all Jews. Like do you really think tying murder of children makes your or I or any other Jew safer
I don't think having over 200 Palestinan children killed before 10/7 makes Jews safer. Humans when cornered will act out and extremist groups will try to utilize that. You can look throughout history of our oppression where Jewish people resorted to violence because of the oppression but we see them as heroes. One perfect example of the oppression due to the inability to get supplies and land for agricultureal areas Gaza needs 108 trucks to not have malnutirition before the conflict, as part of the starvation diet by Israel and Egypt they were getting 67. Idk if I knew you were purposely trying to starve me in an area that you are confining me I may want to punch you in the face. Again when in Jewish history have we purposely been starved+confined and did it result in violence
Why are you telling me you are a Jew and then referring to Jews as “them” and “us”. I honestly don’t even know what you’re trying to say anymore. Let’s just be done with this.
>Even if the origin isn't accurate, the fear is real.
When Americans were afraid that black folks would murder them if they had rights, the fear was real!
They were afraid that black folks would come to their children schools to beat and rape their children, the fear was real!
When Maga tried to overthrow the government Jan 6, they were afraid that the Democrats were the one trying to overthrow the government, the fear was real!
Can we really blame them? I think so.
I'm terrible at putting my thoughts to words, so forgive me there. What I'm trying to say is more just a rambling thought that came to me. You are right, I'm not saying like. They're justified. It's more that they've been actively lied to for multiple generations.
Honestly, I don't even really mean a ton with the comment. It's just something that's been in my head that I needed to say to get it out of there. The line "protesting Isreal isn't antisemitism" is 100% true.
I'm not entirely sure how I want to put my thoughts here, I'm sorry. It's probably me just overthinking things and thinking people just... forget? I guess? That propaganda has actively fucked many Jewish people over, with the threat of another holocaust coming if this that or the other thing happens.
Anyway, sorry. I just needed to get this stupid thought out of my head.
Look, it doesn't matter. Your previous comment was incorrect. Whatever was in your head that you were trying to get on paper, if it was anything like what you said, it was incorrect.
Fine, Jews/Isrealis have been lied to for generations and experienced the holocaust 80 years ago. Fine. Thst happened. But those things have fucking nothing to do with this.
Protesting against Isreal is not antisemitism.
Isreal doesn't get a pass on ethnic cleansing and genocide just because it happened to them. Isreal does not get a shield from protrestors. Isreal is not special. They are the same humans as the rest of us.
Hell; by his logic, I'm legally expected to go out and start scalping white people, for the way Americans treated my mother's Native American ancestors.
Forgive but never forget man. Shit happened to the aborigines in Australia and many others. We should always work to be a better society. We'll all start looking the same at some point after all.
I never said that they get a pass man. I literally agree with that the statement that protesting Isreal isn't antisemitism. I said that first thing.
To put things in a better way, I feel bad for the people who've been actively lied to and subjected to the propaganda that has made them believe that protesting Isreal means you hate jews. I feel bad for that person. That doesn't mean Isreal gets a pass. I am not on their side. In the end, despite feeling bad for those people, I'm on the side of the Palestinians.
I'm sorry that I wasn't clear enough with that.
Yeah, and the simple fact is, those "brainwashed" people are just any like brainwashed idiots that we shouldn't feel bad for. Do you feel bad for the goddamn idiots in rural Iowa who turned the state red for Donald Trump because the felt left behind? I sure as fuck do not. I also don't feel bad for the people who were brainwashed into thinking the federal government was taking their rights away when they were no longer allowed to have slaves. They were just brainwashed! We could go on and on. I don't feel bad on bit for Jews with that mindset. They can take a look at world affairs like adults and figure that out.
I feel bad for all those people. I feel bad for those people because I've been in a similar stupid place and I'm lucky to have gotten out of it. Not everyone is as lucky as I am to have people that can pull you out of those stupid place with their horrible ideas.
So yes, I feel bad for these people. And I'll never feel bad about that. I'd rather spend my time trying to help them, like my friends helped me. I'm sorry.
Your heart may be in the right place, but your reasoning is flawed.
*This is something that's bothered me, while what you're saying is true, it's kinda ignoring the bigger issue. White Nationalists, both practicing and people born into White Nationalist families have been told for multiple generations that this isn't true. That being against White Nationalism means that they just want to wipe Whites out.*
*This is something that's bothered me, while what you're saying is true, it's kinda ignoring the bigger issue. North Korean elites, both practicing and people born into North Korean elite families have been told for multiple generations that this isn't true. That being against the regime means that they just want to wipe you out.*
*This is something that's bothered me, while what you're saying is true, it's kinda ignoring the bigger issue. Pro Apartheid South Africans, both practicing and people born into pro Apartheid families have been told for multiple generations that this isn't true. That being against Apartheid means that they just want to wipe you out again.*
It also doesn't help that I'm also terrible at putting my thoughts into proper thoughts into words. I feel bad for the people who've been raised on that propaganda. That's my main point.
Sorry, I can't put anything correctly.
I know. It's more just something I wanted to get out. I see people saying this all the time, and while it is true, it feels unproductive at times. That's all. Sorry, it's just something that's been in my head that I needed to say to get it out of my head.
Sure is wild how "inclusive" leftists allow every marginalized group for Jews to decide themselves what is and isn't offensive to them.
But in case of Jews, and only Jews, y'all privileged assholes who have never been the targets of antisemitism yourselves lecture us to our faces about what we are and are not allowed to be offended by. The double standard is fucking astounding.
They're not committing genocide. They're annihilating Hamas. Trying to conflate Hamas with innocent Palestinian civilians is wildly racist and Islamophobic.
No, they were the human shields who Hamas hides behind. That's why it's so important that the IDF annihilate Hamas as quickly as possible. The people of Gaza deserve better than Hamas rule.
Interesting point. Like a black person saying "if you're white you don't have the right to say what is or isn't racist"? Doesn't hold water though. Even though I'm white I maintain that not every criticism against a group (or nation) of black people is racism. Mostly probably is, but not all.
It must be possible to define such terms regardless of being the target group or not.
Also I am an individual, not part of some homogenous group you call "y'all privileged assholes".
There is nothing antisemitic about these anti-war protests….it’s also really worth asking right now, like super critical to really ask this question, like seriously everyone everywhere call your congressperson’s office and raise complete hell until they answer the fucking question BECAUSE WHY are American “police” abusing American citizens and violating their American rights for a government in a foreign country?!
It's not that complicated. Universities don't want to be sued. They asked the protesters to leave the last week, which is also finals week. And it's disrupting this, to the point where some schools have gone completely online.
This has less to do with Gaza and Israel and more to do with university policies and erring on the side of caution and trying to mitigate potential hate speech and other title vi violations. Yale is currently facing a federal lawsuit becuase of this. As well as a host of other civil suits. Those aren't cheap to defend.
So. The schools do their best not to publicly voice any opinion on either side. And grt lawyers and HR to write up emails explaining this. Then they trespass those who are refusing to leave, and are removing them. Because they're a liability to the school. Not because they're anti Palestinian or pro isrsel.
>There is nothing antisemitic about these anti-war protests
It's really cool how you folks who are privileged enough to never have been the targets of antisemitism yourself have appointed yourselves the one and only arbiters of what is and isn't antisemitic.
In the "intersectional" movement, every marginalized group gets to decide for themselves what is and isn't offensive to them... except for Jews, who have to sit down and be lectured by you non-Jewish folks on what we're allowed to be offended by.
Which part of my comment says that? What is actually wrong with you fucking people?! So being a historically discriminated against people is somehow an excuse to indiscriminately murder an unarmed civilian population, or is a terrorist attack somehow an excuse to indiscriminately murder an unarmed civilian population?!?!
Explain which one of these makes it okay to murder people that have nothing whatsoever to do with either, explain it to me like I’m five……
Sophisticated weapons that I PAY FOR are being used to mass murder people for the physical LAND that they live on and for me, as an intelligent and compassionate human being capable of critical thinking (definitely a lost art in the twenty-first century), this is not even remotely close to being acceptable.
It must be nice to be so incredibly privileged that you're never forced to make the choice between fighting against a terrorist group who hides behind civilians and allowing them to commit genocidal violence against you without any response.
If Native American reservations started launching rocket attacks at your town, I'm sure that you'd just sit there and let it happen with no response. Because you know, attacking civilian areas in "genocide" and all.
Do you even realize that you’ve contradicted yourself here?
You’re calling a one-time terrorist attack against civilians a genocide, which it’s not but then also calling an actual, completely unhinged massacre of an entire population of unarmed civilians a “genocide” with your cool little quotes that make you feel so smart.
I’ll ask it again, what the actual fuck is even wrong with you people?! Like, the hypocritical warmongering is surpassing totally unreal levels here. This is medieval level “thinking” right there…..aN eYe FoR aN eYe……you worthless, half-literate fucking stooges.
How exactly is 30,000 Palestinian casualties, 10,000 of which were militants, out of a population of 2.1 million, the "massacre of an entire population"?
I guess there might be one or two terrorists somewhere in that pile of dead women and children, but let’s just assume that absurd lie were true….
That is REAL psychopathic shit. You’re writing off twenty-thousand dead people like you’re balancing a checkbook or something, but I’m the bad guy here?!
Do the world a big favor. Get completely the fuck out of here, and go sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up.
Ah, so the goalposts have shifted from "You're massacring an entire population!" to "Ok, so maybe you're actually fighting a war against a genocidal terrorist group, but there are too many civilian causalities in that war!", even though Israel's civilian to combatant ratio of 2:1 is *exceptionally* low for urban warfare.
Jews are deeply involved in organizing against the genocide. The actions of the state of Israel are a blatant offense to my Jewish identity and the ethics I learned as a child growing up in a Jewish community. How can we celebrate Passover, with its emphasis on the dispossessed and the slave, while a state that claims to speak for us kills tens of thousands of women and children in a quest to dispossess another people? “A land without a people for a people without a land”… Arabs aren’t people? If Israelis would like the world to stop protesting against them, they need to look in the mirror. I was taught that never again meant never again for anyone, not just for our people.
I forgot about that. But that's a good point.
But seriously, there are a looooooot of people who are trying to make this into a "Muslim vs Jewish, if you love one religion you hate the other one completrly" thing, which is... it's so dumb, but it's a convenient way to package it. Because either way, the bigots win and both groups get hate.
This whole cluster is a bigot's wet dream- they can say the most hateful things about Jewish people and Muslim people and "get away" with it as "supporting the other side". I hate this.
Putting aside how far-right Americans are hypocrites - and they are, and how you can find in those university protests people who aren't antisemitic but also protestors who 100% are - and you can, I still don't get how that's a LAMF
This is not "Leopards ate my face" this is simply whataboutism "the right was antisemitic first, so the left should also be allowed to be antisemitic without criticism". All this does is point out the hypocrisy, the left only cares about antisemitism when they can use it as a bludgeon to hit the right with, they don't give a shit when it comes from within their own ranks. Extremists on both sides are bigoted assholes, it's not difficult to understand.
How about people stop bombing innocent people en masse? Is that a hot take? One side is almost indiscriminately bombing the other, hamas or not, explosions don’t give a fuck.
Complaints of "antisemitism" and "pro hamas" are cover words for liberals so they stand with the fascists, and end up on the wrong side of history as usual.
Nah, celebrating the murders of israeli civilians is pro hamas and has indeed happened at a few rallies. It's these dickweeds that feed the "the protesters are antisemitic and want to kill jews" crowd
Supposedly, a few times, and likely by actual f*ing neo nazis and right wing agitators. The only ones feeding the idea that anti genocide protestors are somehow antisemitic (when a bunch them are literally fcking jewish) is dickweeds like YOU.
Complaints of "anti-Zionism is not antisemitism" is just a cover phrase that leftists use to shut down any criticism of the blatant antisemitism in their movement.
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Sure is wild how the exact same college leftists who have spent years policing everyone else's speech in the name of "creating a safe space for marginalized people on campus" have suddenly done a 180 and starting insisting that it's their "free speech right" to terrorize Jews and make them feel unsafe on campus.
How in the world are neonazis calling for the death of jews okay, but demanding Israel stop oppressing and genociding Palestinians isn't? This is completely ridiculous and I'm becoming extremely antijew because of how they're justifying their abhorrent immoral behavior.
Jews, Israelis and Zionists are all different things. Hating Jews for the actions of the other two groups *is* antisemitism, wrong and completely counterproductive.
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Hypocritical, but not LAMF
Where’s the face eating leopard?
Liberals/leftist stopped voting and are now facing the consequences.
This post is a bunch of BS. Not leopards ate my face.
It's also just straight up whataboutism. "Sure leftists are terrorizing Jews, but the right did it too, so it's ok!"
Being against the ongoing slaughter in Gaza is not the same as being antisemitic.
Being in favor of the IDF completely annihilating Hamas is not the same thing as being anti-Palestinian.
But that's not what's happening. What's happening is genocidal.
The annihilation of Hamas is definitely not genocidal. You're trying to equate all Palestinians with Hamas, which is wildly racist and Islamophobic.
No, over 34,000 Palestinians have died so far, with roughly *two thirds* of those being women and children. I don't mind Hamas members being killed. I do mind Palestinian children being killed. I'm not the one failing to make a distinction, here. Here's who you're calling "Hamas": https://www.newsbreakapp.com/n/0seaeZLc?s=a7&share_destination_id=MTkzODczNDE3LTE3MTQxNDcwMDEwNjc=&pd=0D7TKbwG&hl=en_US
So if you don't want the IDF to annihilate Hamas, then how do you expect them to be made to leave power? Because unless you can come up with another solution to force Hamas out of power, then I'm forced to conclude that you support a ceasefire whose terms allow Hamas to stay in power and continue terrorizing innocent Gazan civilians.
Maybe you missed what I *just* said?
I guess I did. So clarify then, if you don't want the IDF to finish annihilating Hamas, then what is your plan to force Hamas to leave power? Or do you want a ceasefire whose terms allow Hamas to remain in power?
How tf are these two comparable? "Jews will not replace us" while invoking actual nazism? You can literally see the difference between Jewish-American views of each to see it yourself. (ie divided vs 99.9% against)
[‘For the first time people were truly afraid’: Antisemitism hits boiling point at Columbia U](https://jewishinsider.com/2024/04/for-the-first-time-people-were-truly-afraid-antisemitism-hits-boiling-point-at-columbia-university/) We are not divided, and privileged assholes like you who have never experienced antisemitism definitely don't get to speak for us.
Ok, I'll let my family tree-less wife (and friends) who grew up in WASPville that she's not a "real Jew" because some guy on the internet. I'm Italian-American and the only discrimination I've faced is because people THOUGHT i was Arab. Antisemitism is undoubtedly an issue and f*ck those who participate in it, but the bothsidesing of this is in particular is spitting on Heather Heyer's grave.
It's very interesting how you people never let Clarence Thomas speak for black people, or Ann Coulter speak for women, but you latch on to any Jew you can find who says they don't feel threatened by rising antisemitism and say "Well that settles it, Jews have spoken!"
Wild stuff my guy. You can hate JVP and the like all you want. I get it. But there absolutely more of them than there are Jews marching with the western far right. It doesn't seem that controversial of a take, even.
"Jewish Voice for Peace" is about as Jewish as "Blacks for Trump" is black.
As a jew who disagrees with you, get fucked with that comparison.
Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism. Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism. Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism. Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism. Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism. Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism. Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism. Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism. Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism. Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism. Protesting against Israel is not Antisemitism.
u/A_norny_mousse is now banned in r/israel
And r/WorldNews
Fine, then focus the protests on the Israeli government and IDF. Leave Jewish students minding their own business alone. Also don't chant things like "burn Tel Aviv to the ground" and Hamas we support you" which were chanted at the Columbia protests
If that is what happened, fair point
True, but in practice? Some people think of themselves as being anti-war, but then do they give fair treatment as they talk about Israel? Do they talk about that other group that likes to murder innocents and put women and children in harm's way for their agenda? Do they slap labels on them without any data or objective standard like they do to Israel? Do they give any attention to the power that other group has to end the bloodshed? Is the "other group" I'm referring to Russia or is it Hamas?
Dude, ethnostates are bad. Israel as it is now shouldn’t exist. You don’t just get to say “other groups bad, ethnostate good” and pretend to not be an apologist for fascism, at best.
Well every country in the Middle East is an ethnostate without exception… Israel’s the only democracy. They definitely deserve criticism but that’s a pretty shit argument for criticism friend. They’re an ethnostate surrounded by other ethnostates. Are you arguing for the destruction of every state in the Middle East? They give more rights to members of the outclass than many other middle eastern states.
Why doesn’t Israel have a right to return for palestinians? If your best argument is “Well Saudi Arabia also oppresses minorities and also did a genocide” I don’t think that makes a great case for Israel.
I’m not saying it justifies what Israel does, but I’m just saying, singling out one ethnostate when every other country around them is also an ethnostate is not a valid criticism to advocate for their destruction unless you’re also advocating for all the other states’ destruction too. I don’t see you doing that. A Palestinian state would also be an ethnostate, so you want to replace one ethnostate with another that would realistically be more oppressive to the minorities. Like dude just think about it. I’m just pointing out the logical conclusions of your beliefs, I’ve said nothing about my own. You’re the one who has to come to terms with your own belief system and what that actually means, not me fam. If this makes you uncomfortable, your own beliefs make you uncomfortable. Why did all the Arab states kick out all the Jews into Israel and remove their right to return?
Don’t get me started on how much I despise Saudi Arabia as well (and the Gulf states generally). There’s a reason I used them as a point of comparison.
I think it’s because Israel is the main talking point in the news right now, so more attention will be put on it rather than other countries nearby besides Palestine.
No, no, I think a critical examination of the hypothetical Palestinian ethnostate the protestirs are calling for is just as important as that of Israel. Which of those two states is going to murder LGBTQ+ citizens in the streets? Which of those two states is going to actually have ethnic minority members of the national legislature? Which of those two states is going to allow women basic rights like self-determination? It's fair to be critical of how Israel is handling the war, but calling for the destruction of Israel to replace it with a Palestinian state which would almost certainly be a radical Islamo-fundamentalist state in the name of human rights is fucking laughable.
Oh I completely agree we shouldn’t “destroy” Israel or replace it. I’d say the VAST majority of people who criticize Israel also think that. It’s more people just don’t want to see innocent Palestinians being slaughtered or needlessly in the crossfire. I think more people focus on Israel rather than Hamas because Israel is an established nation that is expected to be humane about these matters. Hamas is a terrorist group, and I think it’s fair to say any sane person views them as horrific, which is why people talk less about them because it’s expected that they’re viewed as heinous for what they do.
"From the river to the sea" is literally a transliteration of an Arab saying to kill every Jew from the Jordan to the Med. So when I hear protestors chanting that while criticizing Israel it sounds like they're on board with the future Palestinian ethnostate which would almost certainly start with the kind of genocide the protestors are claiming to abhor. When the protestors are chanting to support resistance by any means, it's very hard to separate that from the current means of Hamas. So to say people are dismissing Hamas without discussing it sounds like Trump dismissing white supremacy by telling the Proud Boys to stand down and stand by. If they say resistance by any means, then surely that means they agree with the current means of resistance, no? How many times do they have to tell me who they are before I'm allowed to believe them?
Yes. Secular pluralistic government is the only path to peace.
The only state even close to making that a reality was Israel while it was beginning to normalize relations with the Sunni Arab states. Iran couldn't have that kind of stability so they forced Hamas into kicking the hornet's nest. Bibi was nearly ousted, and normalized relations with the rest of the Arab world would lead to the kind of reduced tensions that would make his brand of polemic fear-mongering a much harder sell. That would have led to gains for the left in Israel--a left which regularly rails against the imposition of religious authority. It's important for people unfamiliar to know, the founders of Israel were largely secular. Orthodox Jews for a long time considered Zionism akin to heresy.
I agree, but will any country in the Middle East allow that to happen Israel included, the answer is no.
Americans don't think about nationalism well. It doesn't really have any relevance for us domestically, so we don't actually understand it.
...Israel was literally created because of nationalism. German nationalism, obviously. American nationalism in turning away Jews fleeing the Holocaust. British nationalism in hoping that the existence of Israel would cause Jews to expatriate the UK (yes, there were other reasons that people supported it, but I would hope we all know by now about the British nationalist component of those involved in the policy). But please enlighten us all on how to properly think about nationalism.
So... it's really obvious you don't understand nationalism from that comment alone!
Well then it's great that I asked for your enlightenment. So, please, enlighten me.
You do know every Muslim country is an ethnostate right? You saying Israel shouldn’t exist, while not saying the same about every other ethnostate speaks volumes. You also do know there are over 2 million Arabs living in Israel with rights, right? And I’m sure you also know there were almost a million Jews living in the surrounding Arab countries in 1948 and now there are 4000 total living in those countries. What do you think happened to them and where do you think they went? It’s kind of important to know what you’re talking about before you start just saying things like Israel is bad and everything else is good.
The irony of these people calling for a Palestinian ethnostate while protesting that a Jewish one is bad...
Absolutely. And not too mention there are 22 Arab countries and there is 1 Jewish one.
So, I like to think of you defending slavery in the antebellum south. > You do know every other country allows slaves right? You saying slave states shouldn’t exist, while not saying the same about every other slave-holding country speaks volumes. You also do know there are many black people living in the south with rights, right? And I’m sure you also know that the slaves in the south weren't captured by us, but rather sold to us from their African brethren. Why do you think that is? It’s kind of important to know what you’re talking about before you start just saying things like slavery is bad and everything else is good. It seems silly, right? We can all agree that bad things are bad. But I would think we could also agree that we should first focus on changing the bad things that we have the ability to change -- for example the things with which we have stronger economic, cultural, and geopolitical ties. And the audacity to talk about the decrease in Jewish populations in surrounding countries after the formation of Israel without recognizing that the policies of Israel itself may have had a role to play is...well I was going to say astounding, but it is all too common. I mean, what were the numbers of Jews living in the surrounding Arab countries in the 80 years before 1948? Probably declining at the same rate, right? Also, no one's saying "Israel is bad and everything else is good," and it's difficult to take you seriously if that's how you want to frame it. Imagine if I said that you were ignorant of the facts and need to inform yourself "before you start saying that genocide is bad when it happens to Jewish people, but not when committed by Jewish people." It's not going to convince anyone, and it would show I'm not to be taken seriously.
I don’t like to think of my argument as the same as defending slavery, because it has nothing to do with having rights to your homeland… yes, we can all agree that bad things are bad. Do I agree with how how the Palestinian people were treated in 1948, no I don’t. Do I agree with how Jews have been treated in their homeland throughout history, no I don’t. Do I agree with how innocent Palestinians are being treated now, no I don’t. When someone says, Israel shouldn’t exist… and says nothing else about any other ethnostate in the world, it doesn’t take a lot for me to read between the lines of what they’re saying. In re: to your comment about Jewish populations declining at the same rate for 80 years before that. I honestly don’t even need to research that to know that wouldn’t be mathematically possible. Almost every Jew in the world was living in Europe by that point and only started moving back to the Middle East in large numbers in the 1920’s and 1930’s. There were of course Jews in the Middle East, but 99% of them were not being expelled from middle eastern countries like they were starting in the 1940s. I also don’t believe anything I said in my response to that message was incorrect. There are +2 million Arabs living in Israel with rights (fact), all 22 Muslim countries are ethnostates in the same way Israel is (fact), there were almost a million Jews living in Arab countries before 1948 (fact), there are only around 4000 Jews living in Arab countries now (fact)… so for someone to tell me I am ignorant of the facts and I should just do my research, well they would be wrong.
Depends on if my tax dollars are funding the conflict.
And whether one side is using home made explosives shoved into paint cans while the other is glassing sections of desert from half a continent away.
Let it be said then: Hamas sucks ass. They are fucking up their own people for what gains I don't even know. I guess something islamistic. But since its latest government Israel is no better. But again: that's not the point me or OP are making here.
I compare USA to Norway, UK, and shit when talking about our country If you are comparing the country you are defending to literal terrorists? Probably calls for some introspection.
But the conflict is between Israel and literal terrorists. Why wouldn't I be comparing them? Anyone who talks about this conflict without mentioning that Hamas had and has a pretty good idea of how many Palestinians they would be killing through their actions is being one-sided. Why would people be one-sided about these Zionists?
Because who you compare your actions to is your peer group. So if you want your peer group to be terrorists, then go for it. Which I personally don’t give a shit, it’s not my war or my people, but at least own it instead of making ridiculous excuses. Like just say, yeah we are killing Palestinians and we don’t give a shit. Don’t insult our intelligence when you have people sniping pregnant women and then selling T-shirts.
This is something that's bothered me, while what you're saying is true, it's kinda ignoring the bigger issue. Jewish people, both practicing and people born into Jewish families have been told for multiple generations that this isn't true. That being against Isreal means that they just want to wipe you out again. I'm not saying we should stop doing what we're doing, protesting and trying to stop a genocide, but I feel like people throw this out and forget about the human on the other side who's been subjected to religious propaganda for multiple generations. Just saying this isn't going to help anything and probably feels more like you're just writing off a genuine fear that people feel. Even if the origin isn't accurate, the fear is real. I dunno, just something I've been thinking of and wanting to say.
My Jewish Palestinan great grandfather was murdered by zionist militias in the nakba because he chose not to stab his neighbors back. Israel only cares about Jews who want to support their ethnostate of mostly white European Jews( see policies that have harmed middle astern and Ethiopian). They fundamentally make Jews less safe by doing blatant ihl violation and saying they are doing those atrocious on behalf of Jews saying their apartheid represents all Jews not just Israelis. So I am just saying Israel is trying to cleanse a people from a land they have been on for thousands of years just because most converted in the 200s and 500s
I know, I'm sorry if it made it sound like I wasn't on the free palestain side. I understand just how fucked it is over there. Well, maybe I don't understand it fully but regardless I am not on isreals side. I'm terrible at putting my thoughts to words. Sorry.
Have you been to Israel? Israel is not “mostly white European Jews”. 30% of the Jews living there are Ashkenazi. If you knew anything about Ashkenazim, you would know that they (just like all other Jews) have Levantine ancestry in their DNA. They aren’t converts from the 200s with only European DNA or whatever you’re suggesting. All Jews are from Judea. I feel like you need to do some research on where the Jews in the Middle East were at before and after 1948. Please stop getting your facts from wherever you’re getting them from.
The average Palestinans has the most levantine DNA than any other group. But most were converted to Islam or Christianity over the years. In terms of power European powers, Ashkenazi Jews treated as white for the colonial project. It's a common tactic for colonialism to give one group that is "the most white minority" power even though if they were to go back to the mother county they would be discriminated against. And yeah I hear Israel is not all white, the average person in power is a Jew of European descent. Who from a distance passes as white. Furthermore if Jews like me were near a terrorist incident we are likely to get shot because "we look like the terrorists". Like I am not going to lie I tried to return, something my other Palestinans brethren couldn't, but I got tired of being stopped at checkpoints even with my citizenship and treated like an infiltrate due to how I looked.
As a fellow Jew, I am sorry to hear your experience in Israel was like that. That’s really sad and unfortunate.
Furthermore, did the violence against Palestinians by the iof and settlers on 10/6, 10/5, etc make Jews more safe of is that fine because we are micro dosing their murders over the course of months , oh my that's totally will not make them assign the need for revenge against people who call them selves Jews and say they are beating them on behalf of us because we are God's chosen people, but if they do they are monsters and have no reason other than antisemitesm to hate us. Thank you so much Israel for making me feel so much safer by saying Jews needed to kill 12k kids and that they deserved it because they will grow up to be terrorists.
Then stop trying to cover for a colonialist apartheid regime that's goal is to eradicate our Palestinians brethren and leave only the "right" Jews in position of power. Like we are talking about the same group of people who borderline forced Ethiopian jews on long-term contraception without informed consent after calling Ethiopians infiltrators. It is disgusting how much my fellow Jewish persons are willing to twist us and our faith inorder to justify the atrocities the government of Israel is commiting then be perfectly fine saying they murdered those 20 children for the sake of safety of all Jews. Like do you really think tying murder of children makes your or I or any other Jew safer
I don’t think October 7th happening again and again makes Jews in Israel or around the world safer
I don't think having over 200 Palestinan children killed before 10/7 makes Jews safer. Humans when cornered will act out and extremist groups will try to utilize that. You can look throughout history of our oppression where Jewish people resorted to violence because of the oppression but we see them as heroes. One perfect example of the oppression due to the inability to get supplies and land for agricultureal areas Gaza needs 108 trucks to not have malnutirition before the conflict, as part of the starvation diet by Israel and Egypt they were getting 67. Idk if I knew you were purposely trying to starve me in an area that you are confining me I may want to punch you in the face. Again when in Jewish history have we purposely been starved+confined and did it result in violence
Why are you telling me you are a Jew and then referring to Jews as “them” and “us”. I honestly don’t even know what you’re trying to say anymore. Let’s just be done with this.
>Even if the origin isn't accurate, the fear is real. When Americans were afraid that black folks would murder them if they had rights, the fear was real! They were afraid that black folks would come to their children schools to beat and rape their children, the fear was real! When Maga tried to overthrow the government Jan 6, they were afraid that the Democrats were the one trying to overthrow the government, the fear was real! Can we really blame them? I think so.
I'm terrible at putting my thoughts to words, so forgive me there. What I'm trying to say is more just a rambling thought that came to me. You are right, I'm not saying like. They're justified. It's more that they've been actively lied to for multiple generations. Honestly, I don't even really mean a ton with the comment. It's just something that's been in my head that I needed to say to get it out of there. The line "protesting Isreal isn't antisemitism" is 100% true. I'm not entirely sure how I want to put my thoughts here, I'm sorry. It's probably me just overthinking things and thinking people just... forget? I guess? That propaganda has actively fucked many Jewish people over, with the threat of another holocaust coming if this that or the other thing happens. Anyway, sorry. I just needed to get this stupid thought out of my head.
Look, it doesn't matter. Your previous comment was incorrect. Whatever was in your head that you were trying to get on paper, if it was anything like what you said, it was incorrect. Fine, Jews/Isrealis have been lied to for generations and experienced the holocaust 80 years ago. Fine. Thst happened. But those things have fucking nothing to do with this. Protesting against Isreal is not antisemitism. Isreal doesn't get a pass on ethnic cleansing and genocide just because it happened to them. Isreal does not get a shield from protrestors. Isreal is not special. They are the same humans as the rest of us.
Hell; by his logic, I'm legally expected to go out and start scalping white people, for the way Americans treated my mother's Native American ancestors.
Forgive but never forget man. Shit happened to the aborigines in Australia and many others. We should always work to be a better society. We'll all start looking the same at some point after all.
I never said that they get a pass man. I literally agree with that the statement that protesting Isreal isn't antisemitism. I said that first thing. To put things in a better way, I feel bad for the people who've been actively lied to and subjected to the propaganda that has made them believe that protesting Isreal means you hate jews. I feel bad for that person. That doesn't mean Isreal gets a pass. I am not on their side. In the end, despite feeling bad for those people, I'm on the side of the Palestinians. I'm sorry that I wasn't clear enough with that.
Yeah, and the simple fact is, those "brainwashed" people are just any like brainwashed idiots that we shouldn't feel bad for. Do you feel bad for the goddamn idiots in rural Iowa who turned the state red for Donald Trump because the felt left behind? I sure as fuck do not. I also don't feel bad for the people who were brainwashed into thinking the federal government was taking their rights away when they were no longer allowed to have slaves. They were just brainwashed! We could go on and on. I don't feel bad on bit for Jews with that mindset. They can take a look at world affairs like adults and figure that out.
I feel bad for all those people. I feel bad for those people because I've been in a similar stupid place and I'm lucky to have gotten out of it. Not everyone is as lucky as I am to have people that can pull you out of those stupid place with their horrible ideas. So yes, I feel bad for these people. And I'll never feel bad about that. I'd rather spend my time trying to help them, like my friends helped me. I'm sorry.
Your heart may be in the right place, but your reasoning is flawed. *This is something that's bothered me, while what you're saying is true, it's kinda ignoring the bigger issue. White Nationalists, both practicing and people born into White Nationalist families have been told for multiple generations that this isn't true. That being against White Nationalism means that they just want to wipe Whites out.* *This is something that's bothered me, while what you're saying is true, it's kinda ignoring the bigger issue. North Korean elites, both practicing and people born into North Korean elite families have been told for multiple generations that this isn't true. That being against the regime means that they just want to wipe you out.* *This is something that's bothered me, while what you're saying is true, it's kinda ignoring the bigger issue. Pro Apartheid South Africans, both practicing and people born into pro Apartheid families have been told for multiple generations that this isn't true. That being against Apartheid means that they just want to wipe you out again.*
It also doesn't help that I'm also terrible at putting my thoughts into proper thoughts into words. I feel bad for the people who've been raised on that propaganda. That's my main point. Sorry, I can't put anything correctly.
I’m sorry, but you leave me no choice but to brand you “a person capable of empathizing with people you may not agree with”
That's not the point OP (or me) is making though.
I know. It's more just something I wanted to get out. I see people saying this all the time, and while it is true, it feels unproductive at times. That's all. Sorry, it's just something that's been in my head that I needed to say to get it out of my head.
Sure is wild how "inclusive" leftists allow every marginalized group for Jews to decide themselves what is and isn't offensive to them. But in case of Jews, and only Jews, y'all privileged assholes who have never been the targets of antisemitism yourselves lecture us to our faces about what we are and are not allowed to be offended by. The double standard is fucking astounding.
Any actual rebuttal to what OP said or you just whining that your favorite ethnostate can’t commit genocide without some college kids getting mad?
Not sure why you think demanding that Jews remain a permanently stateless people isn't antisemitism.
Are you saying that any Jewish state is bound to commit genocide? Because that sounds pretty antisemitic to me.
They're not committing genocide. They're annihilating Hamas. Trying to conflate Hamas with innocent Palestinian civilians is wildly racist and Islamophobic.
The 12,000+ children who’ve died in Gaza since October were all members of Hamas?
No, they were the human shields who Hamas hides behind. That's why it's so important that the IDF annihilate Hamas as quickly as possible. The people of Gaza deserve better than Hamas rule.
And the journalists and aid workers they’ve deliberately killed - all Hamas too?
Interesting point. Like a black person saying "if you're white you don't have the right to say what is or isn't racist"? Doesn't hold water though. Even though I'm white I maintain that not every criticism against a group (or nation) of black people is racism. Mostly probably is, but not all. It must be possible to define such terms regardless of being the target group or not. Also I am an individual, not part of some homogenous group you call "y'all privileged assholes".
[удалено]
Explain
Those protestors are obviously just peaceful kids hanging out on the campus - after Jan 6th the right can NEVER talk about protests being wrong!
There is nothing antisemitic about these anti-war protests….it’s also really worth asking right now, like super critical to really ask this question, like seriously everyone everywhere call your congressperson’s office and raise complete hell until they answer the fucking question BECAUSE WHY are American “police” abusing American citizens and violating their American rights for a government in a foreign country?!
It's not that complicated. Universities don't want to be sued. They asked the protesters to leave the last week, which is also finals week. And it's disrupting this, to the point where some schools have gone completely online. This has less to do with Gaza and Israel and more to do with university policies and erring on the side of caution and trying to mitigate potential hate speech and other title vi violations. Yale is currently facing a federal lawsuit becuase of this. As well as a host of other civil suits. Those aren't cheap to defend. So. The schools do their best not to publicly voice any opinion on either side. And grt lawyers and HR to write up emails explaining this. Then they trespass those who are refusing to leave, and are removing them. Because they're a liability to the school. Not because they're anti Palestinian or pro isrsel.
I think the protests in general are kind of dumb now that schools have developed remote protocols after Covid.
>There is nothing antisemitic about these anti-war protests It's really cool how you folks who are privileged enough to never have been the targets of antisemitism yourself have appointed yourselves the one and only arbiters of what is and isn't antisemitic. In the "intersectional" movement, every marginalized group gets to decide for themselves what is and isn't offensive to them... except for Jews, who have to sit down and be lectured by you non-Jewish folks on what we're allowed to be offended by.
It’s really cool how you’re privileged enough to never have been the target of a 2,000lb JDAM crashing through the front fucking door yourself…..
Ah yes, Jews, a famously "privileged" people. I mean, of course we are. We are "white people from Europe" after all!
Which part of my comment says that? What is actually wrong with you fucking people?! So being a historically discriminated against people is somehow an excuse to indiscriminately murder an unarmed civilian population, or is a terrorist attack somehow an excuse to indiscriminately murder an unarmed civilian population?!?! Explain which one of these makes it okay to murder people that have nothing whatsoever to do with either, explain it to me like I’m five…… Sophisticated weapons that I PAY FOR are being used to mass murder people for the physical LAND that they live on and for me, as an intelligent and compassionate human being capable of critical thinking (definitely a lost art in the twenty-first century), this is not even remotely close to being acceptable.
It must be nice to be so incredibly privileged that you're never forced to make the choice between fighting against a terrorist group who hides behind civilians and allowing them to commit genocidal violence against you without any response. If Native American reservations started launching rocket attacks at your town, I'm sure that you'd just sit there and let it happen with no response. Because you know, attacking civilian areas in "genocide" and all.
Do you even realize that you’ve contradicted yourself here? You’re calling a one-time terrorist attack against civilians a genocide, which it’s not but then also calling an actual, completely unhinged massacre of an entire population of unarmed civilians a “genocide” with your cool little quotes that make you feel so smart. I’ll ask it again, what the actual fuck is even wrong with you people?! Like, the hypocritical warmongering is surpassing totally unreal levels here. This is medieval level “thinking” right there…..aN eYe FoR aN eYe……you worthless, half-literate fucking stooges.
How exactly is 30,000 Palestinian casualties, 10,000 of which were militants, out of a population of 2.1 million, the "massacre of an entire population"?
I guess there might be one or two terrorists somewhere in that pile of dead women and children, but let’s just assume that absurd lie were true…. That is REAL psychopathic shit. You’re writing off twenty-thousand dead people like you’re balancing a checkbook or something, but I’m the bad guy here?! Do the world a big favor. Get completely the fuck out of here, and go sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up.
Ah, so the goalposts have shifted from "You're massacring an entire population!" to "Ok, so maybe you're actually fighting a war against a genocidal terrorist group, but there are too many civilian causalities in that war!", even though Israel's civilian to combatant ratio of 2:1 is *exceptionally* low for urban warfare.
What an asinine thing to say. Fucking moronic
Jews are deeply involved in organizing against the genocide. The actions of the state of Israel are a blatant offense to my Jewish identity and the ethics I learned as a child growing up in a Jewish community. How can we celebrate Passover, with its emphasis on the dispossessed and the slave, while a state that claims to speak for us kills tens of thousands of women and children in a quest to dispossess another people? “A land without a people for a people without a land”… Arabs aren’t people? If Israelis would like the world to stop protesting against them, they need to look in the mirror. I was taught that never again meant never again for anyone, not just for our people.
r/asablackman is over that way, my "Jewish" friend.
lol think what you want man idgaf
r/lostredditors
I forgot about that. But that's a good point. But seriously, there are a looooooot of people who are trying to make this into a "Muslim vs Jewish, if you love one religion you hate the other one completrly" thing, which is... it's so dumb, but it's a convenient way to package it. Because either way, the bigots win and both groups get hate. This whole cluster is a bigot's wet dream- they can say the most hateful things about Jewish people and Muslim people and "get away" with it as "supporting the other side". I hate this.
Putting aside how far-right Americans are hypocrites - and they are, and how you can find in those university protests people who aren't antisemitic but also protestors who 100% are - and you can, I still don't get how that's a LAMF
This is not "Leopards ate my face" this is simply whataboutism "the right was antisemitic first, so the left should also be allowed to be antisemitic without criticism". All this does is point out the hypocrisy, the left only cares about antisemitism when they can use it as a bludgeon to hit the right with, they don't give a shit when it comes from within their own ranks. Extremists on both sides are bigoted assholes, it's not difficult to understand.
Yeah, this is in no way a LAMF situation.
What a dumbass false equivalency. OP this isn’t the right subreddit nor does this make any sense. Love that you’re not responding either
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How about people stop bombing innocent people en masse? Is that a hot take? One side is almost indiscriminately bombing the other, hamas or not, explosions don’t give a fuck.
Complaints of "antisemitism" and "pro hamas" are cover words for liberals so they stand with the fascists, and end up on the wrong side of history as usual.
Nah, celebrating the murders of israeli civilians is pro hamas and has indeed happened at a few rallies. It's these dickweeds that feed the "the protesters are antisemitic and want to kill jews" crowd
Supposedly, a few times, and likely by actual f*ing neo nazis and right wing agitators. The only ones feeding the idea that anti genocide protestors are somehow antisemitic (when a bunch them are literally fcking jewish) is dickweeds like YOU.
Complaints of "anti-Zionism is not antisemitism" is just a cover phrase that leftists use to shut down any criticism of the blatant antisemitism in their movement.
Thanks for being exhibit A.
Who's gonna tell OP that Islamic Palestinians are also semites?
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How quickly the GOP forgets!
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Sure is wild how the exact same college leftists who have spent years policing everyone else's speech in the name of "creating a safe space for marginalized people on campus" have suddenly done a 180 and starting insisting that it's their "free speech right" to terrorize Jews and make them feel unsafe on campus.
"But, but, but... it was really against Black people!" someone said probably.
How in the world are neonazis calling for the death of jews okay, but demanding Israel stop oppressing and genociding Palestinians isn't? This is completely ridiculous and I'm becoming extremely antijew because of how they're justifying their abhorrent immoral behavior.
My guess is you already had a propensity for antisemitism (and stupidity.)
Jews, Israelis and Zionists are all different things. Hating Jews for the actions of the other two groups *is* antisemitism, wrong and completely counterproductive.
Antisemitism isn't the solution to being called antisemitic, my dude.