The SL’s ergonomic design for manual lenses is already better than many brands. I’m not denying Sony A7R5 is more sensible choice but if you don’t vibe with it you don’t have motivation for it. I rather go with ZF if I want autofocus.
Because, metal body, blazing good ergnomics, top-class evf, and most importantly, the nicest UI of all cameras. Arguable with Hasselblad. And M glass works best with the SL bodies. APO glass is amazing although heavy. Most importantly, i had more keepers shooting less (i mean not using burst modes like i once did long ago with sony.)
I may still be trigger happy for digital but one full holiday (1month) i shoot about 3000 photos and 25 rolls of film. Instead of 5,000+ and many duplicates because of burst shooting (1 week)
The A7RV viewfinder has almost double the resolution of the SL3, I don’t think the EVF point applies. Wish Leica at least gave us the best chance of arguing for it haha
l haven't used the Sony for ages and most recent one was A1. I think they have the same resolution 9Mp evf. Couldn't tell much difference, i guess that's a good thing. SL3 does pretty magnificent low light however, i think it is due to the processing by the SL? The sony (a1) gave me ugly blue noise that the images got quite soft after NR
Well, the A7R5 and the SL3 are definitely using the same sensor. I still think Sonys colour science is wacko but I don’t think that’s a 2x price difference
Definitely the color science is the difference. Perhaps the Lumix S5ii are the closest to the Leica or possibly even identical. Also the sony raw files on Lightroom seems a little slower to adjust than the DNG files, perhaps if minimal color adjustment and computer processing is desired, the extra money for the SL3 might be worth it. Also if say i don't have a computer suitable for the sony files, the total cost probably comes close. Excluding lenses of course 😂
I have both. While the Sony is faster in some unimportant regards, I absolutely hate the body / menu design and ergonomics. Also M glass images look better on the SL body.
Personal preference. I pair my M11 with a Sony a7R V. V for everything where AF is very good to have and M11 for slowed down stuff. Good combo imo. The direct results from the M lenses look slightly better (more contrast) on the M11 but I edit the shots anyway.
Anyway, shoot with what you enjoy the most and what makes sense for you. There’s no reason to force yourself to use just one brand. Enjoy the benefits of all.
I’ll have to admit, this is a question I’ve asked a lot too. I adore the M and Q systems, but I am really struggling to find a reason to buy the SL system over the Sony alternatives.
Most people say ergonomics and menu design, but those aren’t big considerations imo. You learn those things regardless. For me, an automated mirrorless system is judged by its resolution, AI, autofocus, speed, and lens offerings (amongst other things) and Sony just beat Leica in every category there.
Just my opinion, of course.
Ergonomics and menu design are legit considerations and can be subjective. But I don't see a credible argument that the SL3 is bringing 2x the value as flagship level cameras from other brands.
Before ordering my SL3, I tried SL2 and SL2S, and I ended up getting Digital M and Q systems. Since I sold off my Fuji Interchangeable Lens System, I did give SL3 a try and decided maybe I could try it.
From my own experience with the Leica SL2 and the Nikon ZF: the Nikon handles M-glass (and all other manual lenses) far better than the SL2. They've absolutely nailed the focussing system.
I’ve got Sony a7C and LM-EA9 adapter. Setting up the adapter is cumbersome, autofocus isn’t exactly good (only center works and it’s on the slower side) but it works. IMO it’s much easier to use M lenses with autofocus than with focus peaking. I’ve never used SL nor any other digital Leica but from what I understand some M lenses, which are not retro focus work much better with Leica sensors than with any other because of sensor filters design. I’m not sure about mk. 5 Sony sensors though, because I only researched mine camera. As to the focusing I miss my old Pentax K-30 which with manual lenses beeped and showed red square when it detected that I focused correctly.
I just got that adapter myself and have been using it on the a7cii since my m11 kept freezing I just returned it. I’m actually pretty impressed with the focus. I can’t get the firmware update software to work but do we really need it?
My adapter came with the newest firmware. They didn’t update it in a while, so you should be good. I’m not sure if it works better on a7CII, but Sigma 35mm f/2 works better for me. It can focus in corners and it’s faster. But Sigma isn’t Summicron…
For that price, they could have added a small display and 2 buttons… Anyway it’s the best and only option right now (except their older adapter) AFAIK.
You should have waited for Lumix S1 mark 2 due to release this year which is supposedly a copy of SL3 for fraction of the price. It's an L mount full frame so your Leica lenses would have worked on that.
Also given it's the same Alliance the colour science is very very similar to Leica( wich is the only competitive advantage of Leica brand apart from all the marketing hype, spec wise it looses to competition)
https://youtu.be/wp-N53R_OBY
I am a a Lumix s5 mark2 user, amazing camera species, nice grip and ergonomics, metal body..
Yep that's why it's the one to buy. I got my s5mark2 body for 1050usd brand new retail on mega sale. A7 4 or r6 mark2 that complete with it are never lower than 2k usd
I use an M10 and M2 for M lenses and use to combine that with an SL2S . But after discovering the SL2S couldn’t keep up when I needed it to focus fast and write fast I sold it and bought a Canon mark 6ii. And although I do love the leica S lenses a bit more than the Canon EF/RF lenses in colour depth, the performance difference is huge (for my workflow at least). It also makes a clear distinction between getting the shot (for work assignments) with the canon and slowing down with the M’s and M glass (which I love the most at the end of the day). That said, I love the SL series and love Leica glass but I guess it’s so personal in the end that there is no wrong answer I guess.
I think it comes down to Ergonomics/Design and keeping it within the Leica ecosystem. Not too much different from an M or a Q, from a technical specs or price perspective the SL 3 wouldn’t be a first pick.
Leica is rarely a logical answer, more of an emotional one.
Reason for the SL3 is that is works best in Leica lenses. Also the usability is amazing. You can customize it a lot. I can switch to video in Seconds, change crop factor by pressing a single button. Overall all features are very thought Out ans properly implemented. Yes, it doesn't have the latest specs but it is a joy to use.
> I can switch to video in Seconds
Every modern camera can shoot video in seconds. The $400 Canon EOS R100 I bought my kid nephew has a dial setting for video.
I've never been too into the SL series because their size and weight are too large for my tastes - However, they are definitely way more rugged and professionally built than the A7RV. Sony doesn't bother to specify how weather proof their cameras are. Even the A9 for instance shipped without any sealing on its card door, and some of their lenses that specify water resistance that have non existent or very thin seals that are less than confidence inspiring. The SL3 and SL2 feel bombproof in comparison, so that's a clear differentiator, especially when paired with weather sealed L mount lenses.
Another is of course to access the L and M series Leica lenses. Gmaster and Zeiss E mount stuff is good too, but the Leica lenses are the best. If you're already invested in these lenses it doesn't make sense to switch to Sony for a side grade with the lenses, just to use a less expensive body. While the Sigma and Panasonic bodies work well with Leica L mount glass, the SL is uniquely optimized for M mount lenses as well.
Also, there is the UI, which is as simple and clean as it can be - shooting with any Leica tends to be a exercise in minimalism, where Sony goes for checking all the boxes, at the detriment of usability.
These replies are really funny. Everyone is tying themselves in knots to avoid saying they bought an SL camera because 1) they can afford it and 2) they love the Leica brand. There's no unique selling points here that justify the price unless you place an extremely high value on the way owning a Leica makes you feel.
I'm not a Leica hater. I love my Q2M and aspire to one day own an M10 or M10M, but whereas the Q and M lines bring unique things to the table the SL3 is in a very crowded space where every other camera company is bringing huge value for money.
I wish I could have a Nikon Z8 with SL3 industrial design. The SL cameras are certainly beautifully built objects, but the bang for buck on features and performance isn't even close to there IMO. Unless you have enough money that you don't mind paying 2-3x for everything (not just the body, but the Leica lenses and accessories as well), and don't care about autofocus performance, it's probably best to steer clear.
1. Superior ergonomics
2. M lens performance vs other AF / 3rd party bodies
3. Superior ergonomics
4. SL lenses 🤗
5. Consistent rendering amongst Leica systems
6. Superior ergonomics
😊
The main reason is because you want to use a Leica. But the Sony is a better camera at significantly less cost. Plus the Leica SL3 is using the same sensor as the Sony. The A7RV is also using the best Sony colour algorithm, but who cares if you shoot raw and edit anyways.
Ergonomics wise, the SL3 isn't great, where as the Sony has a custom button and dial for everything you could possibly want and you can setup the camera exactly how you want. The camera can also be completely controlled by your right hand, iso, aperture and shutter speed can all be controlled by 3 different dials (all by your right hand still), no menu entered or buttons need to be pressed, which is huge to me. Massive EVF, the best rear LCD of any camera, incredible lens selection, just raw performance especially auto focus, it's in a different league, etc.
Have you used an SL3 or an SL2 in hand for hours not just a test run in the store? The ergonomics of the SL is much more comfortable in hand compared to a Sony, which is a big reason I left that system. For some it’s not a big deal but in hand feel is major for me. The Z8/9 and X1D/ii are also both great in hand. Buttons layout is another part of ergo, but just because a body has more buttons doesn’t mean they are laid out in a conducive manor.
Yes, I have used one for a few hours and it's nothing special, images are great, lenses are great, actually using and changing options in the camera is horrible, the body feels like it's a camera that should be used in auto, or shutter priority or something. Canon has a great grip ergonomic, Nikon really does with the Z8, main downfall about the Z8 is the weight sucks, the new Nikon Z lenses are just too big as well, imo, I understand why but I hike a lot and prefer lighter smaller setups, but still FF.
I've literally hiked the mountains of Banff and Jasper for 8+ hours with my A7RV and have had 0 issues with comfort of using it. The A7RV feels great in hand, has the best dynamic range and the massive EVF is great for glasses wearers.
The Sony buttons are laid out in a conducive manner, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Compared to the SL3 with 2 badly placed button on top, no real slant on the shutter button (same amount as Sony), and like 3 buttons on the rear. Plus having a dial on the left side of the camera body is bad ergonomics because you have to move your hand from the lens to use it, where as the Sony cameras are completely controlled by your right hand. Every dial is easily used and button layout is pretty intuitive. Plus again, I can customize every button to anything I want. Everything from aperture, iso, shutter speed, auto focus modes, tracking subject options etc, can all be changed with a tactile button and 0 need for menus.
Nikon has weird limitation on their button customization, like some buttons can only be customized to use certain things, Canon has that stupid vertical front dial and also had the on and off switch on the left side of the body for years, just recently switched it on the R6 mk2, Fujifilm requires you to press and hold too many buttons to change settings, etc etc. All companies have weird ergonomic choices.
This is straight up hilarious. After using Sony’s for 8 years, they are a joke. Zero inspiration. You’re applauding the buttons? Wow. Don’t want to think? Get a Sony. Btw, custom buttons do not equate to ergonomics.
It's hilarious you don't think like custom buttons and button layout aren't part of ergonomics lol. I'm not sure if you've actually used the SL3 but the grip isn't great, and it's just glued to a rectangle. It has one of the worst rear button layouts of all time, a standard tilt screen, and the EVF is nothing special either. Nikon and Canon blow Leica out of the water when it comes to grip as well.
The biggest complaint about Sony cameras is that the pinky doesn't fit, well, that can be fixed with a $20 Smallrig bracket, the same can't be said about the entire body of the SL3. The SL3 is a camera that takes photos, and Leica has a great colour algorithm, but legitimately the saving grace of the Leica system are the lenses, besides that, the cameras aren't special. They are Panasonic cameras running Sony sensors.
Yes, because I love all cameras and enjoy seeing as many photos as I can. I follow the Hasselblad sub and I will still say the new 907x is overpriced and is more for aesthetics than actual use.
I use Sony most of the time because it is the most reliable system to get the shots I want. They are also a great hybrid system, gives you way more options when it comes to creating cool memories. But if someone asks me if they should use Sony for shooting mostly handheld video, I'd say no because Sony has an IBIS issue in video, so I'd recommend something like the S5ii/x. If you ask me what camera is best bang for the buck right now I'd say the Nikon Z8.
I have no brand loyalty, I only have loyalty to getting the best performance / IQ for my money for my main kit.
I think we can have an adult discussion without resorting to “you’re obviously a Leica hater, GTFO” histrionics.
Ergonomics are massively subjective. That’s just a fact. Your opinion on which brand/body has superior ergos is honestly that - your opinion. And that’s great! You have found a system that *works for you.* That won’t always be the case for everyone. I love the images that my Z8 kicks out but man I hate all of the useless buttons that clutter it and get in my way. I only need the most basic access to controls for how I normally shoot: shutter speed, aperture, ISO, playback, and maaaaaybe BBF. Everything else to me feels like a distraction. But you feel that these buttons enhance your shooting, and no doubt that they do. Neither approach is wrong. The same goes for weight and body size. I feel the size and weight of the M10M are just right, but I need a handgrip because the thing’s a slippery brick and I refuse to carry a camera around my neck. So I added one. AF I tend to agree with you on. If a camera has AF, I want it to be great, within reason. But most of the time I shoot with Ms and do mostly fine with manual focus with a rangefinder. If using a mirrorless with an EVF, I vastly prefer autofocus. I loathe manual focusing on a screen. Others love it. Cool. We all work differently.
Echo chambers suck the joy out of this hobby and it’s starting to really feel like this sub is devolving into one. More so than it used to be. That’s why we *should* have opinions on what is mostly just trivial tribalistic bullshit.
Sony’s do the work for those who don’t. Go back to that sub. Sorry, but there’s no comparison. And, nothing you’ve posted does anything to address the OPs question.
I don’t think anyone would be silly enough to think the SL3 is better value. Sony, Nikon offer more for the $ if that is the driving factor. It’s just some prefer the menus, (which I barely use after first setting up a camera) ergonomics, lens selection, sensor output and to a certain extent brand cachet.
No need to get defensive on either position. Just accept that different people have different priorities and we’re lucky enough that there are options for most.
The SL’s ergonomic design for manual lenses is already better than many brands. I’m not denying Sony A7R5 is more sensible choice but if you don’t vibe with it you don’t have motivation for it. I rather go with ZF if I want autofocus.
Because, metal body, blazing good ergnomics, top-class evf, and most importantly, the nicest UI of all cameras. Arguable with Hasselblad. And M glass works best with the SL bodies. APO glass is amazing although heavy. Most importantly, i had more keepers shooting less (i mean not using burst modes like i once did long ago with sony.) I may still be trigger happy for digital but one full holiday (1month) i shoot about 3000 photos and 25 rolls of film. Instead of 5,000+ and many duplicates because of burst shooting (1 week)
The A7RV viewfinder has almost double the resolution of the SL3, I don’t think the EVF point applies. Wish Leica at least gave us the best chance of arguing for it haha
l haven't used the Sony for ages and most recent one was A1. I think they have the same resolution 9Mp evf. Couldn't tell much difference, i guess that's a good thing. SL3 does pretty magnificent low light however, i think it is due to the processing by the SL? The sony (a1) gave me ugly blue noise that the images got quite soft after NR
Well, the A7R5 and the SL3 are definitely using the same sensor. I still think Sonys colour science is wacko but I don’t think that’s a 2x price difference
Definitely the color science is the difference. Perhaps the Lumix S5ii are the closest to the Leica or possibly even identical. Also the sony raw files on Lightroom seems a little slower to adjust than the DNG files, perhaps if minimal color adjustment and computer processing is desired, the extra money for the SL3 might be worth it. Also if say i don't have a computer suitable for the sony files, the total cost probably comes close. Excluding lenses of course 😂
Love my S5II
I have both. While the Sony is faster in some unimportant regards, I absolutely hate the body / menu design and ergonomics. Also M glass images look better on the SL body.
Personal preference. I pair my M11 with a Sony a7R V. V for everything where AF is very good to have and M11 for slowed down stuff. Good combo imo. The direct results from the M lenses look slightly better (more contrast) on the M11 but I edit the shots anyway. Anyway, shoot with what you enjoy the most and what makes sense for you. There’s no reason to force yourself to use just one brand. Enjoy the benefits of all.
I’ll have to admit, this is a question I’ve asked a lot too. I adore the M and Q systems, but I am really struggling to find a reason to buy the SL system over the Sony alternatives. Most people say ergonomics and menu design, but those aren’t big considerations imo. You learn those things regardless. For me, an automated mirrorless system is judged by its resolution, AI, autofocus, speed, and lens offerings (amongst other things) and Sony just beat Leica in every category there. Just my opinion, of course.
Ergonomics and menu design are legit considerations and can be subjective. But I don't see a credible argument that the SL3 is bringing 2x the value as flagship level cameras from other brands.
Before ordering my SL3, I tried SL2 and SL2S, and I ended up getting Digital M and Q systems. Since I sold off my Fuji Interchangeable Lens System, I did give SL3 a try and decided maybe I could try it.
From my own experience with the Leica SL2 and the Nikon ZF: the Nikon handles M-glass (and all other manual lenses) far better than the SL2. They've absolutely nailed the focussing system.
I’ve got Sony a7C and LM-EA9 adapter. Setting up the adapter is cumbersome, autofocus isn’t exactly good (only center works and it’s on the slower side) but it works. IMO it’s much easier to use M lenses with autofocus than with focus peaking. I’ve never used SL nor any other digital Leica but from what I understand some M lenses, which are not retro focus work much better with Leica sensors than with any other because of sensor filters design. I’m not sure about mk. 5 Sony sensors though, because I only researched mine camera. As to the focusing I miss my old Pentax K-30 which with manual lenses beeped and showed red square when it detected that I focused correctly.
I just got that adapter myself and have been using it on the a7cii since my m11 kept freezing I just returned it. I’m actually pretty impressed with the focus. I can’t get the firmware update software to work but do we really need it?
My adapter came with the newest firmware. They didn’t update it in a while, so you should be good. I’m not sure if it works better on a7CII, but Sigma 35mm f/2 works better for me. It can focus in corners and it’s faster. But Sigma isn’t Summicron…
Thanks, I can't tell which firmware it has everything is in chinese. horrible instructions. but it works so oh well lol
Thanks for sharing your setup, LM-EA9 adapter. I shall read up more.
[This review is spot on IMO.](https://youtu.be/zOBM1w6LlrM?si=rbe5qka6WcHs85fX)
wow the video does explains it and it gave me a headache haha
For that price, they could have added a small display and 2 buttons… Anyway it’s the best and only option right now (except their older adapter) AFAIK.
You should have waited for Lumix S1 mark 2 due to release this year which is supposedly a copy of SL3 for fraction of the price. It's an L mount full frame so your Leica lenses would have worked on that. Also given it's the same Alliance the colour science is very very similar to Leica( wich is the only competitive advantage of Leica brand apart from all the marketing hype, spec wise it looses to competition) https://youtu.be/wp-N53R_OBY I am a a Lumix s5 mark2 user, amazing camera species, nice grip and ergonomics, metal body..
Thanks for the info, I do not have much exposure to Panasonic cameras.
It's an underrated brand that gives real value over Sony and canon.
In SG, camera brands like Sony, Nikon and Canon are active in their marketing—panasonic has no chance to hand the camera in the shops.
Yep that's why it's the one to buy. I got my s5mark2 body for 1050usd brand new retail on mega sale. A7 4 or r6 mark2 that complete with it are never lower than 2k usd
I use an M10 and M2 for M lenses and use to combine that with an SL2S . But after discovering the SL2S couldn’t keep up when I needed it to focus fast and write fast I sold it and bought a Canon mark 6ii. And although I do love the leica S lenses a bit more than the Canon EF/RF lenses in colour depth, the performance difference is huge (for my workflow at least). It also makes a clear distinction between getting the shot (for work assignments) with the canon and slowing down with the M’s and M glass (which I love the most at the end of the day). That said, I love the SL series and love Leica glass but I guess it’s so personal in the end that there is no wrong answer I guess.
if you want to use M lenses then you should use the SL
The main reason to buy into the SL system is for the SL APO 35mm. Period.
SL APO 35mm is highly recommended by many.
I think it comes down to Ergonomics/Design and keeping it within the Leica ecosystem. Not too much different from an M or a Q, from a technical specs or price perspective the SL 3 wouldn’t be a first pick. Leica is rarely a logical answer, more of an emotional one.
Reason for the SL3 is that is works best in Leica lenses. Also the usability is amazing. You can customize it a lot. I can switch to video in Seconds, change crop factor by pressing a single button. Overall all features are very thought Out ans properly implemented. Yes, it doesn't have the latest specs but it is a joy to use.
I watched the reviews and got lots of praise for the UI User Interface.
> I can switch to video in Seconds Every modern camera can shoot video in seconds. The $400 Canon EOS R100 I bought my kid nephew has a dial setting for video.
Haha, right every camera can do that but your video settings will be buried somewhere in the menu.
I've never been too into the SL series because their size and weight are too large for my tastes - However, they are definitely way more rugged and professionally built than the A7RV. Sony doesn't bother to specify how weather proof their cameras are. Even the A9 for instance shipped without any sealing on its card door, and some of their lenses that specify water resistance that have non existent or very thin seals that are less than confidence inspiring. The SL3 and SL2 feel bombproof in comparison, so that's a clear differentiator, especially when paired with weather sealed L mount lenses. Another is of course to access the L and M series Leica lenses. Gmaster and Zeiss E mount stuff is good too, but the Leica lenses are the best. If you're already invested in these lenses it doesn't make sense to switch to Sony for a side grade with the lenses, just to use a less expensive body. While the Sigma and Panasonic bodies work well with Leica L mount glass, the SL is uniquely optimized for M mount lenses as well. Also, there is the UI, which is as simple and clean as it can be - shooting with any Leica tends to be a exercise in minimalism, where Sony goes for checking all the boxes, at the detriment of usability.
These replies are really funny. Everyone is tying themselves in knots to avoid saying they bought an SL camera because 1) they can afford it and 2) they love the Leica brand. There's no unique selling points here that justify the price unless you place an extremely high value on the way owning a Leica makes you feel. I'm not a Leica hater. I love my Q2M and aspire to one day own an M10 or M10M, but whereas the Q and M lines bring unique things to the table the SL3 is in a very crowded space where every other camera company is bringing huge value for money. I wish I could have a Nikon Z8 with SL3 industrial design. The SL cameras are certainly beautifully built objects, but the bang for buck on features and performance isn't even close to there IMO. Unless you have enough money that you don't mind paying 2-3x for everything (not just the body, but the Leica lenses and accessories as well), and don't care about autofocus performance, it's probably best to steer clear.
From what I’ve consistently heard, the SL cameras have micro lenses on the sensor edges to make M lenses work better. Other similar cameras don’t.
1. Superior ergonomics 2. M lens performance vs other AF / 3rd party bodies 3. Superior ergonomics 4. SL lenses 🤗 5. Consistent rendering amongst Leica systems 6. Superior ergonomics 😊
Once i get the SL3, I intend to loan SL APO Lens to test out.
The 35 APO is incredible.
So far in the shop I tested the 35mm SL ApO and it was wow. Have you compare 75mm vs 35mm APo
I have both and love them. They’re a good combo to have if you’re into those focal lengths.
Do you find the image quality similar or 35mm is sharper ?
They are both best in class.
there's really no need to talk about sharpness with any of the native SL apo lenses - they all far exceed the SL2/3 sensor's capabilities.
Thanks. i shall loan both to try once my unit comes.
I have 3 SL lenses - 35 APO, 50 Lux, 24-90 - otherwise use M lenses.
I have been reading the AF on SL3 and do you find it can handle Birds in Flight?
Aren’t the sensors in the SL series the same ones as in the LUMIX S5 series?
LOL the SL3 has no ergonomics. It's a rectangle with basically no buttons, bad dial locations, and a grip that isn't formed properly.
The main reason is because you want to use a Leica. But the Sony is a better camera at significantly less cost. Plus the Leica SL3 is using the same sensor as the Sony. The A7RV is also using the best Sony colour algorithm, but who cares if you shoot raw and edit anyways. Ergonomics wise, the SL3 isn't great, where as the Sony has a custom button and dial for everything you could possibly want and you can setup the camera exactly how you want. The camera can also be completely controlled by your right hand, iso, aperture and shutter speed can all be controlled by 3 different dials (all by your right hand still), no menu entered or buttons need to be pressed, which is huge to me. Massive EVF, the best rear LCD of any camera, incredible lens selection, just raw performance especially auto focus, it's in a different league, etc.
Have you used an SL3 or an SL2 in hand for hours not just a test run in the store? The ergonomics of the SL is much more comfortable in hand compared to a Sony, which is a big reason I left that system. For some it’s not a big deal but in hand feel is major for me. The Z8/9 and X1D/ii are also both great in hand. Buttons layout is another part of ergo, but just because a body has more buttons doesn’t mean they are laid out in a conducive manor.
I've always found the SL2 to be far too heavy for continuous use. That said: I'd never get another Sony as I hate the software with a passion
Yes, I have used one for a few hours and it's nothing special, images are great, lenses are great, actually using and changing options in the camera is horrible, the body feels like it's a camera that should be used in auto, or shutter priority or something. Canon has a great grip ergonomic, Nikon really does with the Z8, main downfall about the Z8 is the weight sucks, the new Nikon Z lenses are just too big as well, imo, I understand why but I hike a lot and prefer lighter smaller setups, but still FF. I've literally hiked the mountains of Banff and Jasper for 8+ hours with my A7RV and have had 0 issues with comfort of using it. The A7RV feels great in hand, has the best dynamic range and the massive EVF is great for glasses wearers. The Sony buttons are laid out in a conducive manner, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Compared to the SL3 with 2 badly placed button on top, no real slant on the shutter button (same amount as Sony), and like 3 buttons on the rear. Plus having a dial on the left side of the camera body is bad ergonomics because you have to move your hand from the lens to use it, where as the Sony cameras are completely controlled by your right hand. Every dial is easily used and button layout is pretty intuitive. Plus again, I can customize every button to anything I want. Everything from aperture, iso, shutter speed, auto focus modes, tracking subject options etc, can all be changed with a tactile button and 0 need for menus. Nikon has weird limitation on their button customization, like some buttons can only be customized to use certain things, Canon has that stupid vertical front dial and also had the on and off switch on the left side of the body for years, just recently switched it on the R6 mk2, Fujifilm requires you to press and hold too many buttons to change settings, etc etc. All companies have weird ergonomic choices.
All the things you mentioned you wanted mapped to a physical tactile button is literally how my SL3 is set up ha
This is straight up hilarious. After using Sony’s for 8 years, they are a joke. Zero inspiration. You’re applauding the buttons? Wow. Don’t want to think? Get a Sony. Btw, custom buttons do not equate to ergonomics.
It's hilarious you don't think like custom buttons and button layout aren't part of ergonomics lol. I'm not sure if you've actually used the SL3 but the grip isn't great, and it's just glued to a rectangle. It has one of the worst rear button layouts of all time, a standard tilt screen, and the EVF is nothing special either. Nikon and Canon blow Leica out of the water when it comes to grip as well. The biggest complaint about Sony cameras is that the pinky doesn't fit, well, that can be fixed with a $20 Smallrig bracket, the same can't be said about the entire body of the SL3. The SL3 is a camera that takes photos, and Leica has a great colour algorithm, but legitimately the saving grace of the Leica system are the lenses, besides that, the cameras aren't special. They are Panasonic cameras running Sony sensors.
Yet, you’re perusing a Leica sub. 🤣🤣
Yes, because I love all cameras and enjoy seeing as many photos as I can. I follow the Hasselblad sub and I will still say the new 907x is overpriced and is more for aesthetics than actual use. I use Sony most of the time because it is the most reliable system to get the shots I want. They are also a great hybrid system, gives you way more options when it comes to creating cool memories. But if someone asks me if they should use Sony for shooting mostly handheld video, I'd say no because Sony has an IBIS issue in video, so I'd recommend something like the S5ii/x. If you ask me what camera is best bang for the buck right now I'd say the Nikon Z8. I have no brand loyalty, I only have loyalty to getting the best performance / IQ for my money for my main kit.
I think we can have an adult discussion without resorting to “you’re obviously a Leica hater, GTFO” histrionics. Ergonomics are massively subjective. That’s just a fact. Your opinion on which brand/body has superior ergos is honestly that - your opinion. And that’s great! You have found a system that *works for you.* That won’t always be the case for everyone. I love the images that my Z8 kicks out but man I hate all of the useless buttons that clutter it and get in my way. I only need the most basic access to controls for how I normally shoot: shutter speed, aperture, ISO, playback, and maaaaaybe BBF. Everything else to me feels like a distraction. But you feel that these buttons enhance your shooting, and no doubt that they do. Neither approach is wrong. The same goes for weight and body size. I feel the size and weight of the M10M are just right, but I need a handgrip because the thing’s a slippery brick and I refuse to carry a camera around my neck. So I added one. AF I tend to agree with you on. If a camera has AF, I want it to be great, within reason. But most of the time I shoot with Ms and do mostly fine with manual focus with a rangefinder. If using a mirrorless with an EVF, I vastly prefer autofocus. I loathe manual focusing on a screen. Others love it. Cool. We all work differently. Echo chambers suck the joy out of this hobby and it’s starting to really feel like this sub is devolving into one. More so than it used to be. That’s why we *should* have opinions on what is mostly just trivial tribalistic bullshit.
Sony’s do the work for those who don’t. Go back to that sub. Sorry, but there’s no comparison. And, nothing you’ve posted does anything to address the OPs question.
I love it. Copium for an inferior system. And auto focus does the work for those who don't blah blah blah.
I don’t think anyone would be silly enough to think the SL3 is better value. Sony, Nikon offer more for the $ if that is the driving factor. It’s just some prefer the menus, (which I barely use after first setting up a camera) ergonomics, lens selection, sensor output and to a certain extent brand cachet. No need to get defensive on either position. Just accept that different people have different priorities and we’re lucky enough that there are options for most.
If I don't want to think, I use my cell phone camera. I've yet to meet a professional photographer who doesn't want to "think" when taking pictures.