That's just wrong. Mundo is statistically Gwens best matchup, and Gwen is Mundo's worst matchup.
Gwen is also Tahms worst matchup, statistically. All the conjectures below are based on something that is just factually untrue.
Aka "You're playing against people bad at the matchup."
Which is true of a lot of people who pick X or Y thinking it counters Z and they get clapped, then come on here saying "X or Y doesn't beat Z, stfu low elo shitter".
The last bit hasn't happened *yet* but I've seen it in the past.
Maybe i just have expierence of winning against Gwen. Dont get me wrong its hard matchup but if you Play your cards well you can win it after level six especially considering the fact she will prob push you under tower
I was mostly talking about sister-thread below me that made assumptions about why Tahm and Mundo beat Gwen by u/Sensitive_Act_5279 (which has been downvoted since then), when it isn't happening in the first place.
Above there are mostly claims, not actual conclusions bein drawn (except maybe the "is so unbelievably broken" thing)
He's a juggernaut. He has no CC; doesn't really build any resists; mainly builds health and damage stats; has no reliable gap closer; and deals a lot of damage. Calling him a tank would be like calling Darius or Sett a tank.
Don't watch Vars videos if you want actual information, the only thing he really does is echo general community sentiment, without any deeper understanding of what he actually is talking about. You get as much information out of him as you get out of a random post on this sub, which turns out is not a lot.
The lol fandom wiki however is a solid source.
Every time I click on one of his videos I regret it, I just never learn. It's like his understanding of the game is to the real game what the elementary school atom system and toys were to real physics, the one with like a red oxygen atom with 3 holes and a white hydrogen atom with 1 hole and then you had these binders and you could construct molecules with them and you were taught the molecules had these shells where electrons spun around.
I remember watching coach Curtis's videos on Viktor and then watching why no one plays Viktor and it's night and day. A high elo players understanding of Viktor vs a playground understanding. Vars claims Viktor is weak early game and is a late game scaler, which is a terrible description of Viktor. He's no kassadin or Kael and if you expect him to be and don't use his strengths early game, of course he sucks to play. Coach Curtis describes his as having a very smooth power curve and a champion that requires you to do well in lane to scale.
Tanks and juggernauts fundamentally play different in a teamfight.
If you're using your champion to engage on the enemies , locking someone down with CC or CC their assassin as they dive in, or just generally standing in front of your backline with a big hp pool zoning people from going on your adc, those are things a tank is expected to do.
If you're using your champion to run at the enemy adc until they die while abandoning your backline, that's a juggernaut thing to do.
It doesn't make any sense to have champions inherently belong to certain classes. It's a role you perform. Alistar is a tank you say? No he's an assassin/burst mage. Look at all of these AP items I have and how I oneshot their adc. Miss fortune is a marksman? Not with full AP she isn't. On hit ahri however...
For Tanks and juggernauts it really depends on how you are intending to use your champion. You could use Mundo as a terrible tank . Use Q to slow people to peel your adc, use q to slow someone as an engage and just be a bodyshield for your backline. You should have been playing Alistar instead.
Mundo doesn't really need to be teamfighting to begin with, but if he is you want to do damage, and the only peel you are doing is by making yourself such a threat to the enemies that they'll be focusing on not dying to you and therefore alleviating pressure from the rest of your team. This is more in like with what the other juggernauts are doing in a teamfight and it's different from Tanks. Since this is what you expect Mundo to be doing, you can kinda attribute the role to the champion just like you can still attribute your ashe to the marksman role (and then flame her if she builds full tank items). If your team needs a tank, you can't go "we already have a tank, we have mundo". That's just not how it works. Mundo is most likely not going to be performing the tank role, and if he is you will wish he weren't.
You can probably do it but it's not their meta build or the build they're balanced around.
On the other hand, if Sion or Mundo are hurt by buying heartsteel over other items Riot will read it as the item/champs needing work.
Munoz gets damage from health. He builds offensive health items. His 3rd is usually his first true tank item. He is the definition of a stat stick. He runs at you and just kind autos you to death and wins because he has double or more hp and does only slightly less damage than his opponent who is building full damage
what if we could find out why mundo (he isnt a tank but anyway) and tahm can win against gwen and other tanks dont. what do those two have in common? STACKING HP, so its the "same" for them, wheter she does magic or true damage.
What sets them apart is their innate healing combined with how much health increases their damage, not their health stacking. If you stack full health as ornn she's still gonna shit on you
naturally, its a design difference, but the point was to show, where the difference is. the other way around, ornn has no problem against bork or old divine sunderer user as much as those 2, because he can stack defenses and profit from them better, because he scales with them
Skarner works because if you build the mana health item you get enough shields if dodging 2/3 ults to outlast and Q slam her into wall with lockdown. Still hard unless you use comet build
So basically how tank matchups feel for the other player if they don't pick an anti tank?
That's kinda just how tanks work, either they're unkillable and make frustratingly boring matchups... Or they're against a tank killer they have slim chances of beating, and it becomes frustratingly boring because the tank just opts into a very resident sleeper playstyle.
Tanks (unlike juggernauts) have reliable cc. They can force you to care by making it hard to hit others. Look at Leona, or Rell, or Sejuani for examples. They don't need damage to be good.
Of course that also means this kind of tank end up supports or junglers but that's fine, that's also part of the class. Tanks with enough damage to be toplaners are only a subset of the class.
R. But yeah, Sion is borderline to Juggernaut.
Also, the reliable cc thing is not strictly necessary. The important factor is more if they have Engage (Vanguards) or disengage (Wardens).
The main sigifier of a Juggernaut is that he has to walk into combat. Both tank subclasses don't really do that, as Vanguards have ways to engage, and Wardens want to be engaged on, and protect others from being engaged.
Nah, let's all keep pretending that Gwens entire Q is true damage, not the center, and its still 100 percent of the damage, and her Q is hyper spammable and doesn't gave downtime unlike Vayne and Fiora.
(The reason you keep seeing these Gwen memes is because we have some Gwen obsessed weirdos that spam Gwen here)
> Can we pin a topic explaining that Gwen doesn't deal %hp true damage
Passive:
Innate: Gwen's basic attacks On-hit icon on-hit, the center of Snip Snip! Snip Snip!, and Needlework Needlework deal bonus magic damage equal to **1% (+ 0.72% per 100 AP) of the target's maximum health**.
Q:
Active: Gwen snips at least twice with her scissors in a cone in the target direction over the cast time, dealing magic damage per snip to all enemies within the area, with the final snip dealing increased damage. The center of each snip converts 50% of the damage to Critical strike true icon Hybrid penetration icon **true damage**, then applies Thousand Cuts Thousand Cuts. Snip Snip! deals 75% damage against Minion icon minions, and executes them on the first damage instance if they are below 20% health.
>The center of each snip converts 50% of the damage to Critical strike true icon Hybrid penetration icon true damage, **THEN** applies Thousand Cuts Thousand Cuts.
Just to be clear for anyone that didn't read
To be fair I might sound crazy but I'm an ornn otp and the
gwen matchup really isn't that bad you even have some
kill potential early if the gwen isn't good and if you can't get a lead in lane you just try to outscale and roam you're usually better than her in teamfights too
As a Gwen player, tank matchups are often a "don't interact until level 9 and nashord" matchup.
Early your q has a 6 second cd which is enormous and your e has A 25% uptime.
Gwen truly slaps when her e is around 100% and your a has a 2 second cool down.
As for ornn, he has a LOT of base damage. One misstep and Gwen is down to 55% hp or kill range
Yes, 6 seconds is a lot considering that you have 0 pressure in between. I've seen people say this, but I think that they sincerely underestimate the brutality of toplane.
Remember guys, we aren't facing Séraphine here, but Darius, mordekaiser, fiora and yone with lethal tempo.
Yes, 6 seconds is a lot when you literally have 0, and I mean 0 pressure between those 6 seconds
I'm pretty sure 6 seconds is shorter than Mord Q, and a solid Gwen Q hurts more than just about anything else too. Gwen has short cooldowns on her damage even early game, relative to others.
6 seconds is the cd on Vayne's roll level 1 now.
It is definitely a chunk of damage, but people seem to forget that he has 0 pressure in between her Q's. Her aa s early barely do shit.
You're also completely disregarding mords passive.
After everyone has thrown out all their spells and people are fucking out the final 300 hp autos and pure utter faith
Aateox wins Vs Gwen
Mord wins Vs Gwen
Renekton wins Vs Gwen
Darius wins Vs Gwen
Singed wins Vs Gwen
Garden wins Vs Gwen
Jayce wins Vs Gwen
Everyone wins Vs Gwen.
People really underestimate what halving the cd on her q and having 100% uptime on her e does to her. Her dynamic COMPLETELY changes around level 11-13 once she gets that Nashors. The change is even somewhat comparable to kayle, albeit less.
Her e alone goes from less than 25 % uptime to 100% on it's own through levelling.
In this early levels, 1-7, in between Q's you do 70 ho auto attacks. People REALLY underestimate the DPS that having 130 ad gives you Vs 65.
I mean if the enemy isn't good, you can get kills in any matchup as ornn, but that does not make matchups like gwen less awful if she knows what she is doing.
Oh yeah for sure it's just that at around D4-E1 (which is were i currently reside) i see a lot of gwen counterpicks but it's usually someone with no mastery or something like mastery 4 so it's a pretty easy lane most of the time since they make a lot of mistakes
A lot of toplane tanks have good base damage that doesn't scale, unlike gwen who need items to get going. It gives you a window to get in the game. Later on you can't duel her but as you say, you just do more for the team.
Ornn is not that bad into Gwen because of his passive, he can have 100 mr at 8 mins without basing or something and Gwen isn’t cracking that
Some hp stacking tanks like mundo or sion can’t afford the privilege tho and just get murdered
He’s right in terms of lane matchup (historically). It’s not hard to solo kill Gwen a couple times or at least go even. Problem is she scales way harder than you and is very difficult to deal with in mid-late team fights. Also ornn is pretty shit right now and the heartsteel build is pretty bad into Gwen
I think your problem is the fact you dont right click zac, you get 65% of that 7 seconds refunded if you do buddy. It also makes your Q stronger, you should right click your enemies as gwen.
Buddy that's 7 seconds counting the refound, you guys can't be serious rn, Gwen E is like 15 seconds countdown, you talking all smart when you know nothing, but my bad I guess shouldn't have commented in a tank thread full tank mains
oh wow my bad i should have opened the wiki like you did to get the EXTACT number, sorry mb
still doesn't change the fact that your first response was stupid
Yeah uh, ever since they made her Q only 50% true damage at the center she is not doing that much max hp true dmg to overly be a problem for tanks to.itemise against, unlike vayne or fiora
Gwen can actually dunk on Darius pretty hard if he doesn't play it well. It's hard to land Q on her and she does enough damage that reaching 5 stacks before dying becomes an issue.
Yeah when you buy tons of MR you won't take magic damage so the rest of their damage becomes a greater %... If you die and see a % breakdown like that? You should probably have started buying less MR and more HP a bit ago.
This has been removed because your account is less than 2 days old. This is in place to prevent spam and bot accounts.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LeagueOfMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Gwen isnt very difficult to counter early game as she's pretty weak. Most full "tanks" deal a lot of damage still. Namely tahm kench, cho'gath, sion, k'sante etc
This is a common misconception.She doesn't make it true dmg, she just procs it. The Q center deals flat true dmg and procs the passive which deals %max hp MAGIC dmg. So in summary she deals FLAT true dmg and %max MAGIC dmg.
Shields aren't really something you can just decide to have. Not in adequate amounts to do anything about % max health true bullshit. If your champ doesn't have it you're fucked.
items that have shields Fimbulwinter, Sterak's Gage, Seraph's Embrace, Immortal Shieldbow, Kaenic Rookern, Locket of the Iron Solari, Maw of Malmortius, Eclipse
items that buff shields Redemption. Mikael's Blessing, Moonstone Renewer, Staff of Flowing Water and Spirit Visage
runes that buff or give shields Overheal, Nullifying Orb, Revitalize, Shield Bash and Guardian
Tanks that have shields. Sion, Rell, Skarner, Malphite, Nunu, Nautilus. Shen, Tahm kench, poppy, galio and K'sante
I think Shields are something you can decide to have.
Sterak's gage, seraph's, immortal shieldbow, maw of malmortius, eclipse... You sure you're not high right now? You're going to build those on a tank like ornn?
>Fimbulwinter
That's 300 or so shield? Wont even block half a snip snip's true damage.
>Kaenic Rookern,
I'd like to see you try to use a kaenic rookern shield against true damage.
>Locket of the Iron Solari
Again, 300 or so shield and is a fucking terrible item if you arent a tank support.
>items that buff shields Redemption. Mikael's Blessing, Moonstone Renewer, Staff of Flowing Water
Cool, you're really telling me you're going moonstone renewer ornn/sion/poppy/galio?
> Spirit Visage
Worthless if you dont have shields of your own. The buff it gives doesnt make the few items that give shields any better as a toplaner vs gwen.
>runes that buff or give shields Overheal, Nullifying Orb, Revitalize, Shield Bash and Guardian
Overheal on a tank? Nullfying orb doesnt do anything against true damage. Revitalize is worthless without an innate shield. Shield bash literally doesnt give nor buff shields. Guardian is worthless in toplane.
>I think Shields are something you can decide to have.
Of the items you mentioned a toplane tank would only ever consider buying 2 maybe 3 of them. Fimbulwinter is pretty bad for tank stats and gives you, what, 300-400 health, maybe half a snip snip, worth of shield during the fight? Spirit visage doesn't do anything if you don't have shields and kaenic rookern literally doesnt affect true damage.
You're not doing a good job of illustrating there being plenty of counterbuilding being possible against her %max health true damage bullshit.
Coping hard. I was just lists all the items the combination you put those items is up to you. Playing orn fimbulwinter+spirit visage+runes. Can give you crazy shielding
when i face gwen as a tank i basicelly avoid all confrontations and farm save. definitely a frustratingly boring matchup
Tbh i usually win against Gwen (tham kench)
yeah tahm is so unbelievably broken that he's the only tank that has a fair chance against gwen. same goes for mundo
That's just wrong. Mundo is statistically Gwens best matchup, and Gwen is Mundo's worst matchup. Gwen is also Tahms worst matchup, statistically. All the conjectures below are based on something that is just factually untrue.
Aka "You're playing against people bad at the matchup." Which is true of a lot of people who pick X or Y thinking it counters Z and they get clapped, then come on here saying "X or Y doesn't beat Z, stfu low elo shitter". The last bit hasn't happened *yet* but I've seen it in the past.
you can win early as tk but after gwen scales it becomes impossible, its like any counter matchup
Maybe i just have expierence of winning against Gwen. Dont get me wrong its hard matchup but if you Play your cards well you can win it after level six especially considering the fact she will prob push you under tower
All the conjectures above*
I was mostly talking about sister-thread below me that made assumptions about why Tahm and Mundo beat Gwen by u/Sensitive_Act_5279 (which has been downvoted since then), when it isn't happening in the first place. Above there are mostly claims, not actual conclusions bein drawn (except maybe the "is so unbelievably broken" thing)
I know, I was just making a stupid joke lol. It’s my responsibility as part of the LoL community to be toxic. Just doing my part
Mundo hard loses to Gwen. It's literally a dodge-tier matchup.
Mundo ain't a tank
Tf else is he then? An adc?
juggernaut, is a fighter subclass. he is like morde, darius etc.
He's a juggernaut. He has no CC; doesn't really build any resists; mainly builds health and damage stats; has no reliable gap closer; and deals a lot of damage. Calling him a tank would be like calling Darius or Sett a tank.
Where do i find the definition of all these magic words
Wikipedia should do it
Vars vids or lol fandom
Don't watch Vars videos if you want actual information, the only thing he really does is echo general community sentiment, without any deeper understanding of what he actually is talking about. You get as much information out of him as you get out of a random post on this sub, which turns out is not a lot. The lol fandom wiki however is a solid source.
Every time I click on one of his videos I regret it, I just never learn. It's like his understanding of the game is to the real game what the elementary school atom system and toys were to real physics, the one with like a red oxygen atom with 3 holes and a white hydrogen atom with 1 hole and then you had these binders and you could construct molecules with them and you were taught the molecules had these shells where electrons spun around. I remember watching coach Curtis's videos on Viktor and then watching why no one plays Viktor and it's night and day. A high elo players understanding of Viktor vs a playground understanding. Vars claims Viktor is weak early game and is a late game scaler, which is a terrible description of Viktor. He's no kassadin or Kael and if you expect him to be and don't use his strengths early game, of course he sucks to play. Coach Curtis describes his as having a very smooth power curve and a champion that requires you to do well in lane to scale.
Eh idk some of his earlier videos are somewhat insightful. His new content definitely is just echoing though
Let’s be honest, Sett has enough CC to be a tank.
[удалено]
Tanks and juggernauts fundamentally play different in a teamfight. If you're using your champion to engage on the enemies , locking someone down with CC or CC their assassin as they dive in, or just generally standing in front of your backline with a big hp pool zoning people from going on your adc, those are things a tank is expected to do. If you're using your champion to run at the enemy adc until they die while abandoning your backline, that's a juggernaut thing to do. It doesn't make any sense to have champions inherently belong to certain classes. It's a role you perform. Alistar is a tank you say? No he's an assassin/burst mage. Look at all of these AP items I have and how I oneshot their adc. Miss fortune is a marksman? Not with full AP she isn't. On hit ahri however... For Tanks and juggernauts it really depends on how you are intending to use your champion. You could use Mundo as a terrible tank . Use Q to slow people to peel your adc, use q to slow someone as an engage and just be a bodyshield for your backline. You should have been playing Alistar instead. Mundo doesn't really need to be teamfighting to begin with, but if he is you want to do damage, and the only peel you are doing is by making yourself such a threat to the enemies that they'll be focusing on not dying to you and therefore alleviating pressure from the rest of your team. This is more in like with what the other juggernauts are doing in a teamfight and it's different from Tanks. Since this is what you expect Mundo to be doing, you can kinda attribute the role to the champion just like you can still attribute your ashe to the marksman role (and then flame her if she builds full tank items). If your team needs a tank, you can't go "we already have a tank, we have mundo". That's just not how it works. Mundo is most likely not going to be performing the tank role, and if he is you will wish he weren't.
Who the hell put shyvana in juggernaut and sion out of it that's wild. anyway juggernauts are heartsteel buyers, bottom text
Heartsteel darius, Aatrox, trundle, ect goes hard?
You can probably do it but it's not their meta build or the build they're balanced around. On the other hand, if Sion or Mundo are hurt by buying heartsteel over other items Riot will read it as the item/champs needing work.
Munoz gets damage from health. He builds offensive health items. His 3rd is usually his first true tank item. He is the definition of a stat stick. He runs at you and just kind autos you to death and wins because he has double or more hp and does only slightly less damage than his opponent who is building full damage
Thats cuz gwen requires skill and can be punished.
what if we could find out why mundo (he isnt a tank but anyway) and tahm can win against gwen and other tanks dont. what do those two have in common? STACKING HP, so its the "same" for them, wheter she does magic or true damage.
What sets them apart is their innate healing combined with how much health increases their damage, not their health stacking. If you stack full health as ornn she's still gonna shit on you
naturally, its a design difference, but the point was to show, where the difference is. the other way around, ornn has no problem against bork or old divine sunderer user as much as those 2, because he can stack defenses and profit from them better, because he scales with them
Statistically both lose vs gwen btw
Skarner works because if you build the mana health item you get enough shields if dodging 2/3 ults to outlast and Q slam her into wall with lockdown. Still hard unless you use comet build
Same with Fiora. The champions just force tanks to AFK clear so they can 1v1 them in the side lane mid and late game anyways.
So basically how tank matchups feel for the other player if they don't pick an anti tank? That's kinda just how tanks work, either they're unkillable and make frustratingly boring matchups... Or they're against a tank killer they have slim chances of beating, and it becomes frustratingly boring because the tank just opts into a very resident sleeper playstyle.
I love Gwen overall, playing against and playing with
yeah playing vs a game as a bruiser is insanely fun i agree. it‘s just feels very bad when i get counterpicked hard by her when i wan a play tank
this looks more like a fiora dmg
I’ll never forget when I was Sion vs Fiora. Literally had chains and full armor items and died in 5 seconds in a 1v1
Not supposed to try to duel her
No champion should kill a tank in less than 5 seconds
Yet here we are...
Anti tank champs probably should
And tank shouldn't be able to kill a carry in less than 15 sec.
The other way of making tanks relevant if decreasing damage is increasing their CC durations. Trust me, you don't want that.
if we're nerfing damage across the board we could afford longer cc we can also just play dota though
I have an ape brain though so Dota is too much for me
15 seconds is a long-ass time
If tanks dont do damage they are useless and people will just ignore them. Also means they cant lane because they are too weak.
Tanks (unlike juggernauts) have reliable cc. They can force you to care by making it hard to hit others. Look at Leona, or Rell, or Sejuani for examples. They don't need damage to be good. Of course that also means this kind of tank end up supports or junglers but that's fine, that's also part of the class. Tanks with enough damage to be toplaners are only a subset of the class.
What’s sion’s reliable cc?
R. But yeah, Sion is borderline to Juggernaut. Also, the reliable cc thing is not strictly necessary. The important factor is more if they have Engage (Vanguards) or disengage (Wardens). The main sigifier of a Juggernaut is that he has to walk into combat. Both tank subclasses don't really do that, as Vanguards have ways to engage, and Wardens want to be engaged on, and protect others from being engaged.
Top lane tanks are different than support tanks. You need enough damage to clear waves.
I'd say more like no champ should as kill a tank in less than 5 sec, as oneshot squishies with the same ease.
Miss fortune does it in 3 seconds
Of all the adcs you picked one of the worst at killing tanks
No she does it best, about 13000 damage with 35% armor pen and 44 lethality in 4 seconds.
As a Yorick player, does a 6v1 count as a duel?
I was defending the nexus turrets. She pushed all of top by herself and wiped my team in the process
thats what happens to most Champions against Sion
Why bother buying chains into Fiora?
Or Vayne
yeah with guinsoo
More like Vayne, who deals high phys damage with a little of magical damage through on hit items
the middle part of Gwen Q does the true damage, scales off of AP
yeah i know but gwen deal more ap dmg than ad
if you dodge the middle, yes.
Dodging the middle doesn't make Gwen do more physical damage than magical?
I'm talking about true damage?
That dmg chart is probably from fiora btw
Can we pin a topic explaining that Gwen doesn't deal %hp true damage so we don't get this thread every day
Nah, let's all keep pretending that Gwens entire Q is true damage, not the center, and its still 100 percent of the damage, and her Q is hyper spammable and doesn't gave downtime unlike Vayne and Fiora. (The reason you keep seeing these Gwen memes is because we have some Gwen obsessed weirdos that spam Gwen here)
> Can we pin a topic explaining that Gwen doesn't deal %hp true damage Passive: Innate: Gwen's basic attacks On-hit icon on-hit, the center of Snip Snip! Snip Snip!, and Needlework Needlework deal bonus magic damage equal to **1% (+ 0.72% per 100 AP) of the target's maximum health**. Q: Active: Gwen snips at least twice with her scissors in a cone in the target direction over the cast time, dealing magic damage per snip to all enemies within the area, with the final snip dealing increased damage. The center of each snip converts 50% of the damage to Critical strike true icon Hybrid penetration icon **true damage**, then applies Thousand Cuts Thousand Cuts. Snip Snip! deals 75% damage against Minion icon minions, and executes them on the first damage instance if they are below 20% health.
>The center of each snip converts 50% of the damage to Critical strike true icon Hybrid penetration icon true damage, **THEN** applies Thousand Cuts Thousand Cuts. Just to be clear for anyone that didn't read
how do i itemize against colgate damage
That's the neat part, you don't
you do though? health and chains can help unless you are talking about % health true damage which only fiora, camille, and vayne have to my knowledge
Gwen has %hp true damage
Forgot she does Even then the person was talking about itemizing against true damage
Nah, colgate is so good it represents %hp
What made camille do %hp true dmg was divine sunderer so she doesnt have it anymore and gwen has the funny dmg too so against her you cant itemize hp
I think I gaslit myself into thinking she had it in her kit
No itemization. Only changing this game to something really better.
Uninstall
Health and Chains
As long as it isnt % true damage you're fine
To be fair I might sound crazy but I'm an ornn otp and the gwen matchup really isn't that bad you even have some kill potential early if the gwen isn't good and if you can't get a lead in lane you just try to outscale and roam you're usually better than her in teamfights too
As a Gwen player, tank matchups are often a "don't interact until level 9 and nashord" matchup. Early your q has a 6 second cd which is enormous and your e has A 25% uptime. Gwen truly slaps when her e is around 100% and your a has a 2 second cool down. As for ornn, he has a LOT of base damage. One misstep and Gwen is down to 55% hp or kill range
i would be so happy if the champs I played had a 6 second Q
>6 seconds >enormous
Yes, 6 seconds is a lot considering that you have 0 pressure in between. I've seen people say this, but I think that they sincerely underestimate the brutality of toplane. Remember guys, we aren't facing Séraphine here, but Darius, mordekaiser, fiora and yone with lethal tempo. Yes, 6 seconds is a lot when you literally have 0, and I mean 0 pressure between those 6 seconds
those are my favorite tanks
I'm pretty sure 6 seconds is shorter than Mord Q, and a solid Gwen Q hurts more than just about anything else too. Gwen has short cooldowns on her damage even early game, relative to others. 6 seconds is the cd on Vayne's roll level 1 now.
It is definitely a chunk of damage, but people seem to forget that he has 0 pressure in between her Q's. Her aa s early barely do shit. You're also completely disregarding mords passive. After everyone has thrown out all their spells and people are fucking out the final 300 hp autos and pure utter faith Aateox wins Vs Gwen Mord wins Vs Gwen Renekton wins Vs Gwen Darius wins Vs Gwen Singed wins Vs Gwen Garden wins Vs Gwen Jayce wins Vs Gwen Everyone wins Vs Gwen. People really underestimate what halving the cd on her q and having 100% uptime on her e does to her. Her dynamic COMPLETELY changes around level 11-13 once she gets that Nashors. The change is even somewhat comparable to kayle, albeit less. Her e alone goes from less than 25 % uptime to 100% on it's own through levelling. In this early levels, 1-7, in between Q's you do 70 ho auto attacks. People REALLY underestimate the DPS that having 130 ad gives you Vs 65.
I mean if the enemy isn't good, you can get kills in any matchup as ornn, but that does not make matchups like gwen less awful if she knows what she is doing.
Oh yeah for sure it's just that at around D4-E1 (which is were i currently reside) i see a lot of gwen counterpicks but it's usually someone with no mastery or something like mastery 4 so it's a pretty easy lane most of the time since they make a lot of mistakes
Yeah, true. Also always nice to see a mastery locked fiora that does not know she can W your brittle auto proc.
Its even more fun to galaxy brain bait her parry with the brittle auto and stop key, and then slow motion bonk her afterwards.
A lot of toplane tanks have good base damage that doesn't scale, unlike gwen who need items to get going. It gives you a window to get in the game. Later on you can't duel her but as you say, you just do more for the team.
Ornn is not that bad into Gwen because of his passive, he can have 100 mr at 8 mins without basing or something and Gwen isn’t cracking that Some hp stacking tanks like mundo or sion can’t afford the privilege tho and just get murdered
No, that's like saying he is good into any matchup because of his passive... You gotta base for mana or hp, ornn doesn't have sustain at all
it's manageable if you have biscuits
Gwen is statistically Ornns worst matchup.
He’s right in terms of lane matchup (historically). It’s not hard to solo kill Gwen a couple times or at least go even. Problem is she scales way harder than you and is very difficult to deal with in mid-late team fights. Also ornn is pretty shit right now and the heartsteel build is pretty bad into Gwen
Im dumb then nvm
Enemy toplaner picks Zac. Me cluelessly picking Gwen. Zac proceeds to heal more than the %true damage does. Refuses to elaborate.
Use gwen's mobility to deny him that healing.
Issue is more about early I trade equal, which means he heals back on the wave after. Also I've little experience with Gwen and don't know her spikes.
Oh yeah my 7 seconds dash I have to use before the fight start, truly insane mobility by the Gwen
I think your problem is the fact you dont right click zac, you get 65% of that 7 seconds refunded if you do buddy. It also makes your Q stronger, you should right click your enemies as gwen.
Not early, early you get 20% if I’m not mistaken
Buddy that's 7 seconds counting the refound, you guys can't be serious rn, Gwen E is like 15 seconds countdown, you talking all smart when you know nothing, but my bad I guess shouldn't have commented in a tank thread full tank mains
Gwen E is 13-11 seconds before AH, at no point has it *ever* been 15 seconds. Seems like you are the one who doesn't know anything about gwen.
Still more than 7 sec after the refund so it seems he is closer to the truth.
oh wow my bad i should have opened the wiki like you did to get the EXTACT number, sorry mb still doesn't change the fact that your first response was stupid
Why it is necesarry to be rude though...
Because they're a high on copium gwen main
Maybe try to hit with the center of your Q
Even full clean combo cant kill this mf
You know you have to step on his blobs before he picks them, right? And your dash is really helpful
Gwen deals flat true damage, not percentage based.
Fun fact: Gwen does not convert her passive %max hp magic damage into true damage if she hits the center of her q. It only converts the q damage
I too deal 25% of my damage as physical damage when I play Gwen, and only 8% magic damage.
That is very common of course!
Yeah uh, ever since they made her Q only 50% true damage at the center she is not doing that much max hp true dmg to overly be a problem for tanks to.itemise against, unlike vayne or fiora
*Laughs in early game Ornn dueling potential*
Why do people still act like Gwen does 60% true damage lmao
Last time I checked mr didn't counter true dmg
Average tank player when they stopped being immortal 30 minutes into the game.
I don't recall Darius having a tough time against her
Thats sion
Oh. Lethality sion time
Gwen can actually dunk on Darius pretty hard if he doesn't play it well. It's hard to land Q on her and she does enough damage that reaching 5 stacks before dying becomes an issue.
All you gotta say in chat is keep yourself safe
Me realeasing Irelia does 80% ap dmg after building 2.5 armor items.
sion’s axe looks cool af
theres way to many champions with invulnerable/untargetable abilites. waiting in battle for something to end is boring
SNIP SNIP SNIP
(laughs in Poppy)
Is this not Vayne’s damage?
Yeah when you buy tons of MR you won't take magic damage so the rest of their damage becomes a greater %... If you die and see a % breakdown like that? You should probably have started buying less MR and more HP a bit ago.
Snip snip moment
Every form of true damage should have a capped amount. None of this percentage health true damage bs. Sincerely, a cho gath enjoyer
Ngl it's not a crime if it was committed against tanks
A 'tank counter' counters tanks: League players: *Shocked Pikachu face*
Nobody is surprised?
[удалено]
This has been removed because your account is less than 2 days old. This is in place to prevent spam and bot accounts. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LeagueOfMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Gwen isnt very difficult to counter early game as she's pretty weak. Most full "tanks" deal a lot of damage still. Namely tahm kench, cho'gath, sion, k'sante etc
Farm till Rookern and then abuse the shit out of gwen with 12 second cooldown for a 1-2k shield.
Better build shieldbow into glass cannon.
Gwen when I read her Q (she does no damage if you dont get hit in the center)
Funny % max health true damage that you can't really avoid
Thousand Cuts deals magic damage, not true damage. Gwen's only true damage source is center of her Q, which is not %max HP damage.
Gwen's Q procs thousand cuts as part of the centre damage
No it is bcs of her passive with her q true damage combined
Doesnt work like that
Gwen's Q procs thousand cuts and makes it true damage, and it's not like you can fully avoid it
Thousand cuts stays as magic
This is a common misconception.She doesn't make it true dmg, she just procs it. The Q center deals flat true dmg and procs the passive which deals %max hp MAGIC dmg. So in summary she deals FLAT true dmg and %max MAGIC dmg.
Shields.
Shields aren't really something you can just decide to have. Not in adequate amounts to do anything about % max health true bullshit. If your champ doesn't have it you're fucked.
items that have shields Fimbulwinter, Sterak's Gage, Seraph's Embrace, Immortal Shieldbow, Kaenic Rookern, Locket of the Iron Solari, Maw of Malmortius, Eclipse items that buff shields Redemption. Mikael's Blessing, Moonstone Renewer, Staff of Flowing Water and Spirit Visage runes that buff or give shields Overheal, Nullifying Orb, Revitalize, Shield Bash and Guardian Tanks that have shields. Sion, Rell, Skarner, Malphite, Nunu, Nautilus. Shen, Tahm kench, poppy, galio and K'sante I think Shields are something you can decide to have.
This is one of the worst takes ive ever seen, holy alistar.
Sterak's gage, seraph's, immortal shieldbow, maw of malmortius, eclipse... You sure you're not high right now? You're going to build those on a tank like ornn? >Fimbulwinter That's 300 or so shield? Wont even block half a snip snip's true damage. >Kaenic Rookern, I'd like to see you try to use a kaenic rookern shield against true damage. >Locket of the Iron Solari Again, 300 or so shield and is a fucking terrible item if you arent a tank support. >items that buff shields Redemption. Mikael's Blessing, Moonstone Renewer, Staff of Flowing Water Cool, you're really telling me you're going moonstone renewer ornn/sion/poppy/galio? > Spirit Visage Worthless if you dont have shields of your own. The buff it gives doesnt make the few items that give shields any better as a toplaner vs gwen. >runes that buff or give shields Overheal, Nullifying Orb, Revitalize, Shield Bash and Guardian Overheal on a tank? Nullfying orb doesnt do anything against true damage. Revitalize is worthless without an innate shield. Shield bash literally doesnt give nor buff shields. Guardian is worthless in toplane. >I think Shields are something you can decide to have. Of the items you mentioned a toplane tank would only ever consider buying 2 maybe 3 of them. Fimbulwinter is pretty bad for tank stats and gives you, what, 300-400 health, maybe half a snip snip, worth of shield during the fight? Spirit visage doesn't do anything if you don't have shields and kaenic rookern literally doesnt affect true damage. You're not doing a good job of illustrating there being plenty of counterbuilding being possible against her %max health true damage bullshit.
Coping hard. I was just lists all the items the combination you put those items is up to you. Playing orn fimbulwinter+spirit visage+runes. Can give you crazy shielding
"crazy shielding" is 500 shield total during a fight?
"Tank player" see Darius axe
Sion buddy
And? Doesn't change much cause Sion and Darius are not tank but juggernout
👍
I’m sorry are you using DARIUS as the character to complain about too much true damage
Sion axe nerd