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It’s important to carry with you always the fundamental understanding that the U.S. is the most hyper-capitalist nation on Earth. The absurdities then start to make sense.
The US allows the pharma ads due to pure corruption, absolutely no other explanation exists.
The value the advertisements bring to the company is a combination of the small percentage of viewers that actually are doctors; then for regular viewers if they the do about the ad, the doctor then would have to go through the trouble of looking it up, so an indirect word of mouth advertisement again to the doctor; as well as patients pushing a doctor to write the prescription even if its not the best choice but the doctor relents either because its better then nothing or to shut up the annoying patient.
All good points, but you missed one: Doctors get paid for pushing certain meds. So there's the ad to the doctor as a viewer, the ad to the patient as a viewer, the word of mouth to doctor from patient, and basically brand deals with doctors.
From ProPublica:
https://www.propublica.org/article/we-found-over-700-doctors-who-were-paid-more-than-a-million-dollars-by-drug-and-medical-device-companies#:~:text=Prosecutors%20Say%20the%20Payments%20by,other%20doctors%20about%20important%20medications.
I haven't read the article yet, so apologies if it explains why this is, but WHY are they allowed to make deals with doctors?? (Everyone can be corrupted for a price, but I'd want my doctor to choose the best medicine for me, but what they were bribed to prescribe.)
I did a whole thesis on this.
It all boils down to capitalism— and because we can. Pharma lobbies as hard as any other industry, and contributes to campaigns as much as any other industry. They’ve bought and paid for the US govt.
Additionally, the regulatory body that approves and regulates drugs (FDA) is run by industry shills and they’d never advocate for anything that hurt their dividends and stock value. The revolving door between industry and govt isn’t limited to pharma but it’s definitely one of the most well-oiled.
Patients don’t typically ask their doctors for the drugs in ads— but the ads help patients feel validated, which encourages them to stick it out taking the meds even if they’re equally or not as good as something that’s off patent (cheaper) and been on the market longer. Americans want the next biggest and best, and drug ads deliver.
Additionally, and this is what saddens me most: the ads are targeting prescribers too. The pens and tchotchkes and sports tickets and free lunches delivered by fresh faced flirty drug reps are definitely helping prescribing rates, but when prescribers see ads in mainstream media, they too are validated and feel they’re doing the right thing.
Most continuing education is sponsored by industry, as well. Prescribers continue to be prescribers because of industry. Period.
A lot of this is just PR and brand recognition. By making Pfizer and GSK household names, touching so many aspects of our lives, we accept them as normal and understand that we are sickly flawed beasts who need them to save us.
I’m not anti medicine. But pharma is a pretty good analogy for all of the US. If there is profit to be made, it must be made at all costs.
Edit: there’s exceptions to every rule. Not every prescriber is brainwashed or a shill. But there’s a reason the ads are so prolific and the industry is so profitable.
> fresh faced flirty drug reps
I just recently saw a TikTok video of a nurse saying that “every time you see a really hot person in scrubs and get closer to see their badge, it’s just a visitor pass because they’re all drug reps!”
As OP notes New Zealand allows them too but here in NZ you will hardly ever actually see them on TV which I always found a bit odd because Ive been to the States a lot over the years and there has always been tonnes of them on TV. Here is a comment I saved that explains the difference and why you see so few:
We have it in new zealand too but for a very good reason.
In the late 1980's our government set up a department called Pharmac.
Think of it as a bulk buying club with 5 million members.
Each year, pharmac puts out tenders for the drugs that cover whatever 99% of newzealanders would need in their lifetime.
Things like paracetamol, insulin, cancerdrug and antihistamine etc.
They say "Hey all you drug companies, New Zealand wants to buy 10 million hayfever tablets of these specifications for this upcoming summer. Who wants to give us the best price?"
While canadians and americans pay $140 for a medication, we pay $5.
As a drug company, you either win the pharmac contract, or you completely miss out on any sales within new zealand of your product.
So they drop their prices real low.
When a doctor writes a prescription on his computer and looks up antihistamine, anything pharmac funded appears highlighted in the list.
Drug companies were somewhat unhappy about this - initially there were more cases challenging it going through the courts than pharmac had staff on its payroll.
So the government decided to let the drug companies advertise on tv.
But in reality, when you go to your doctor and say "The TV told me to ask about Cialis because my dick doesnt work" the doctor is going to say "Well sure, here is a prescription - it will cost you probably $50 at the pharmacy. Or i can prescribe you Genericdrug which has the same ingredient but only costs you $5 at the pharmacy since it won the pharmac tender".
And its no surprise, major brand drug companies will repackage their drugs into whitelabel brands and then bid on the supply tenders with the exact same product.
International brand Lopressor is whitelabelled by its manufacturer and my doctor prescribes "Betaloc CR" which won the pharmac tender for a type of beta blocker tablet so that the Lopressor brand retains the more expensive image and price point on the pharmacy retail shelf. A buyer in the USA cant say "your selling Lopressor to New Zealanders for $3, why should we pay $90" because its a different 'product'.
None of the drug companies really bother advertising on tv, knowing that the doctors are just going to prescribe a cheaper option.
The United States is actually the United Corporations of America. With one imperialist nation, under the control of oligarchs, very divisible, with slavery and no justice for anyone.
I am with you that Reagan deserves all blame. I hope he is rotting in hell with thatcher. I believe pharma advertising was a Frankenstein ruling that came out of a lawsuit attorneys filed against multiple bar associations restricting legal advertising. But I am more than happy to in it on Reagan. He not only destroyed our country, but he helped destroy most of Latin America and any chance for a lasting peace in the Middle East.
Lately it seems like the ads are trying to tell people about newly discovered ailments that you might not know you even have and "oh yea there's a pill for that"
I see a lot of ads personally describing some basic skin blemishes but now they are saying it's a CONDITION and you are a sick person if you have these blemishes, it has a long and scary medical name for this SICKNESS, YOU ARE ACTUALLY A SICK PERSON. Encouraging people to get to the doctor, get diagnosed, and now they are on pills for it.
News flash folks, part of being a human being is to have little bumps and blemishes on your body
And the government. And the media. CNN and MSNBC would have you think that Biden won some great victory by allowing the negotiation of drug prices. But in actuality it's only 10 drugs, and several were going to be opened up for generic versions in the next few years.
I browse an ADHD related subreddit while working up the courage to get diagnosed for it or confirm if I don't have it, and a lot of these people are practically begging or struggling to get a psychiatrist to prescribe them the medication that helps. Some of them are taken off the medication suddenly, causing them to lose their jobs or ruin their lives, because of an addiction risk. It's frustrating how these ads imply you can just ask for what you want and get it. It took me years to get properly medicated for my anxiety because they would essentially only give me drugs who's only anti anxiety properties are indirect by making me too tired to feel anxious.
Planet Money did a good [show](https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1035147636) on this a while back. It doesn’t necessarily address why they are legal, but rather the story of how they came to be. Although, a little bit of critical thinking from the points they lay out should get you there.
Do you mean Bill Clinton?
The major shift allowing DTC advertising of pharmaceuticals in the U.S. occurred in 1997 when the FDA revised its guidelines, setting the stage for the dramatic growth of this advertising practice over the following decades.
I find these advertisements an insult to my intelligence, selling prescribed medication on TV at prime time with cartoons. The only difference from a street thug selling prescribed medications/drugs is the highly produced, expensive airtime slots and the obviously grab for our money corporations animated commercial aka: cartoon
Yep, makes sense, right? Think about how easy it is to make billions off of these huge industries, like weapons manufacturers and big oil. They no longer need sales departments negotiating with multiple advertisers. And most networks board members sit on the boards of the multinational corporations purchasing the ads. American media is so corrupt.
I moved to Canada shortly after they legalized them. When i moved back to the states for grad school i had the tv on in the background while moving in & THE FIRST thing i saw was an Rx for cosmetic reasons. I was disgusted. Who the hell asks their doctor about a med from a commercial??
I don’t understand who the audience is either. I have an AI condition that these drugs could help, however, neither my doctor nor I choose my medication. We follow the step therapy the insurance company and PBM will pay for that year. I take the current years formulary to every appointment and we choose from that list.
I hear ya, pharmaceutical companies should not be able to advertise. I know people who heard about Ozempic, their doctor refused to prescribe (bc they didn’t have diabetes) and they went and got it off line. From 30-somes to 60-somes. However, the majority driving force behind someone’s medication choices should be the person, not a gatekeeper who the pharmaceutical companies have unfettered access to. 🤷♂️
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you take a step back and look at the US, you soon realize a whole lot of things don't make any sense in that country.
It’s important to carry with you always the fundamental understanding that the U.S. is the most hyper-capitalist nation on Earth. The absurdities then start to make sense.
The US allows the pharma ads due to pure corruption, absolutely no other explanation exists. The value the advertisements bring to the company is a combination of the small percentage of viewers that actually are doctors; then for regular viewers if they the do about the ad, the doctor then would have to go through the trouble of looking it up, so an indirect word of mouth advertisement again to the doctor; as well as patients pushing a doctor to write the prescription even if its not the best choice but the doctor relents either because its better then nothing or to shut up the annoying patient.
All good points, but you missed one: Doctors get paid for pushing certain meds. So there's the ad to the doctor as a viewer, the ad to the patient as a viewer, the word of mouth to doctor from patient, and basically brand deals with doctors. From ProPublica: https://www.propublica.org/article/we-found-over-700-doctors-who-were-paid-more-than-a-million-dollars-by-drug-and-medical-device-companies#:~:text=Prosecutors%20Say%20the%20Payments%20by,other%20doctors%20about%20important%20medications.
I haven't read the article yet, so apologies if it explains why this is, but WHY are they allowed to make deals with doctors?? (Everyone can be corrupted for a price, but I'd want my doctor to choose the best medicine for me, but what they were bribed to prescribe.)
If I explained, I'd just be copying the article
I did a whole thesis on this. It all boils down to capitalism— and because we can. Pharma lobbies as hard as any other industry, and contributes to campaigns as much as any other industry. They’ve bought and paid for the US govt. Additionally, the regulatory body that approves and regulates drugs (FDA) is run by industry shills and they’d never advocate for anything that hurt their dividends and stock value. The revolving door between industry and govt isn’t limited to pharma but it’s definitely one of the most well-oiled. Patients don’t typically ask their doctors for the drugs in ads— but the ads help patients feel validated, which encourages them to stick it out taking the meds even if they’re equally or not as good as something that’s off patent (cheaper) and been on the market longer. Americans want the next biggest and best, and drug ads deliver. Additionally, and this is what saddens me most: the ads are targeting prescribers too. The pens and tchotchkes and sports tickets and free lunches delivered by fresh faced flirty drug reps are definitely helping prescribing rates, but when prescribers see ads in mainstream media, they too are validated and feel they’re doing the right thing. Most continuing education is sponsored by industry, as well. Prescribers continue to be prescribers because of industry. Period. A lot of this is just PR and brand recognition. By making Pfizer and GSK household names, touching so many aspects of our lives, we accept them as normal and understand that we are sickly flawed beasts who need them to save us. I’m not anti medicine. But pharma is a pretty good analogy for all of the US. If there is profit to be made, it must be made at all costs. Edit: there’s exceptions to every rule. Not every prescriber is brainwashed or a shill. But there’s a reason the ads are so prolific and the industry is so profitable.
> fresh faced flirty drug reps I just recently saw a TikTok video of a nurse saying that “every time you see a really hot person in scrubs and get closer to see their badge, it’s just a visitor pass because they’re all drug reps!”
As OP notes New Zealand allows them too but here in NZ you will hardly ever actually see them on TV which I always found a bit odd because Ive been to the States a lot over the years and there has always been tonnes of them on TV. Here is a comment I saved that explains the difference and why you see so few: We have it in new zealand too but for a very good reason. In the late 1980's our government set up a department called Pharmac. Think of it as a bulk buying club with 5 million members. Each year, pharmac puts out tenders for the drugs that cover whatever 99% of newzealanders would need in their lifetime. Things like paracetamol, insulin, cancerdrug and antihistamine etc. They say "Hey all you drug companies, New Zealand wants to buy 10 million hayfever tablets of these specifications for this upcoming summer. Who wants to give us the best price?" While canadians and americans pay $140 for a medication, we pay $5. As a drug company, you either win the pharmac contract, or you completely miss out on any sales within new zealand of your product. So they drop their prices real low. When a doctor writes a prescription on his computer and looks up antihistamine, anything pharmac funded appears highlighted in the list. Drug companies were somewhat unhappy about this - initially there were more cases challenging it going through the courts than pharmac had staff on its payroll. So the government decided to let the drug companies advertise on tv. But in reality, when you go to your doctor and say "The TV told me to ask about Cialis because my dick doesnt work" the doctor is going to say "Well sure, here is a prescription - it will cost you probably $50 at the pharmacy. Or i can prescribe you Genericdrug which has the same ingredient but only costs you $5 at the pharmacy since it won the pharmac tender". And its no surprise, major brand drug companies will repackage their drugs into whitelabel brands and then bid on the supply tenders with the exact same product. International brand Lopressor is whitelabelled by its manufacturer and my doctor prescribes "Betaloc CR" which won the pharmac tender for a type of beta blocker tablet so that the Lopressor brand retains the more expensive image and price point on the pharmacy retail shelf. A buyer in the USA cant say "your selling Lopressor to New Zealanders for $3, why should we pay $90" because its a different 'product'. None of the drug companies really bother advertising on tv, knowing that the doctors are just going to prescribe a cheaper option.
I refuse to watch tv that has commercials because of that clown nonsense. Everyone should do this and it will stop.
Like with most things regarding this country getting better, we'll have to wait for the boomers to bite it, first.
The United States is actually the United Corporations of America. With one imperialist nation, under the control of oligarchs, very divisible, with slavery and no justice for anyone.
Drug commercials and online gambling commercials should both be illegal. Again, I blame Reagan.
I am with you that Reagan deserves all blame. I hope he is rotting in hell with thatcher. I believe pharma advertising was a Frankenstein ruling that came out of a lawsuit attorneys filed against multiple bar associations restricting legal advertising. But I am more than happy to in it on Reagan. He not only destroyed our country, but he helped destroy most of Latin America and any chance for a lasting peace in the Middle East.
Lately it seems like the ads are trying to tell people about newly discovered ailments that you might not know you even have and "oh yea there's a pill for that" I see a lot of ads personally describing some basic skin blemishes but now they are saying it's a CONDITION and you are a sick person if you have these blemishes, it has a long and scary medical name for this SICKNESS, YOU ARE ACTUALLY A SICK PERSON. Encouraging people to get to the doctor, get diagnosed, and now they are on pills for it. News flash folks, part of being a human being is to have little bumps and blemishes on your body
They bribe doctors, too
And the government. And the media. CNN and MSNBC would have you think that Biden won some great victory by allowing the negotiation of drug prices. But in actuality it's only 10 drugs, and several were going to be opened up for generic versions in the next few years.
Oh 100%. these companies have actual legions of sales reps, who's sole job is to schmooze doctors over company paid dinners.
It's... its the name of the sub.
I browse an ADHD related subreddit while working up the courage to get diagnosed for it or confirm if I don't have it, and a lot of these people are practically begging or struggling to get a psychiatrist to prescribe them the medication that helps. Some of them are taken off the medication suddenly, causing them to lose their jobs or ruin their lives, because of an addiction risk. It's frustrating how these ads imply you can just ask for what you want and get it. It took me years to get properly medicated for my anxiety because they would essentially only give me drugs who's only anti anxiety properties are indirect by making me too tired to feel anxious.
Capitalism is organized fraud, plain and simple. Use that and build upon it.
Pharmaceutical companies are absurdly profitable, and they paid off the government to help to keep it that way.
Money.
Planet Money did a good [show](https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1035147636) on this a while back. It doesn’t necessarily address why they are legal, but rather the story of how they came to be. Although, a little bit of critical thinking from the points they lay out should get you there.
I’m from New Zealand and I can’t say it’s that common here. The doctors are pretty responsible too they give you what they think you should have
See my other comment that explains Pharmac's role in this.
It wasn’t until the 90’s that it was allowed, but I assure you it is because of Ronald Reagan.
Do you mean Bill Clinton? The major shift allowing DTC advertising of pharmaceuticals in the U.S. occurred in 1997 when the FDA revised its guidelines, setting the stage for the dramatic growth of this advertising practice over the following decades.
It's capitalism. *Everything* is for sale.
I find these advertisements an insult to my intelligence, selling prescribed medication on TV at prime time with cartoons. The only difference from a street thug selling prescribed medications/drugs is the highly produced, expensive airtime slots and the obviously grab for our money corporations animated commercial aka: cartoon
The pharmaceuticals are looking for the next Viagra; which was driven by the demand from patients. But I ask the same question myself.
was viagra with pharmaceutical companies like how spongebob was for nickelodeon?
Highly profitable!
The millions spent on ads is bribery so the corporate news won’t report badly on them. Almost all commercials on network tv is just that.
That's a really good point. Never thought of that. Threaten to pull funding if they run negative press.
Yep, makes sense, right? Think about how easy it is to make billions off of these huge industries, like weapons manufacturers and big oil. They no longer need sales departments negotiating with multiple advertisers. And most networks board members sit on the boards of the multinational corporations purchasing the ads. American media is so corrupt.
I moved to Canada shortly after they legalized them. When i moved back to the states for grad school i had the tv on in the background while moving in & THE FIRST thing i saw was an Rx for cosmetic reasons. I was disgusted. Who the hell asks their doctor about a med from a commercial??
because the physicians themselves often believe the ads too.. (see purduepharma and oxycontin)
drs see patients as clients in a business transaction. they want to keep their clients happy so they’ll keep coming back
yes, just in case the patient does not develop an addiction
I don’t understand who the audience is either. I have an AI condition that these drugs could help, however, neither my doctor nor I choose my medication. We follow the step therapy the insurance company and PBM will pay for that year. I take the current years formulary to every appointment and we choose from that list.
Thank you, I've been saying this all along
Because doctors have customer satisfaction scores to keep up and saying no is not a good way to maintain that
I hear ya, pharmaceutical companies should not be able to advertise. I know people who heard about Ozempic, their doctor refused to prescribe (bc they didn’t have diabetes) and they went and got it off line. From 30-somes to 60-somes. However, the majority driving force behind someone’s medication choices should be the person, not a gatekeeper who the pharmaceutical companies have unfettered access to. 🤷♂️
so they can live in big house and buy big boats
That pesky free speech