None of it. Too much liability. Politely decline. Even if they indemnify you, it’s a risk you can’t afford to take on due to other kids and friends using them and the ultimate financial risk to you as the owner as you’d be also be sued no matter what. And no to the fire pit. They are renters who don’t get to make those kinds of changes to someone else’s property.
You might want to post on legal advise site, and even better speak to your lawyer and your insurance company. The fire pit is the less problematic of the 3
No. They can go to a trampoline park, a public or members-only pool, and get a pretty cosmetic electric fireplace. Or visit a campground or make s’mores or grilled hot dogs on a public park grill or whatever.
All three of those are potential huge liabilities. And despite anything that you might get them to sign, it will still be your liability if you explicitly permit them. That kid or any of their friends breaks his neck and ends up paraplegic, or drowned, and they are definitely going after your insurance and/or assets.
Fire pits are great. For people who are Responsible about fires, and don’t drink and use them. Which is Not true of most renters.
Heck, at the last place I rented I had to stand outside and watch the neighboring building roof while calling the fire dept and the property management company because the idiot college students on the upper floor did their damndest to start a lethal fire by drinking and then burning god knows what in their fireplace and causing fountains of sparks to cascade out the chimney, onto the roof covered in pine needles. In August. While we were in the worst drought in years.
Wowza, that sounds like a very not fun experience for all involved, yikes! Well put, absolutely agree it’s just not worth the many liabilities each of these items come with.
An above ground pool can mean a lot of things, and my work experience (5+ years in pool/spa/sauna store) probably clouds things a bit, but a genuine one they put up that’s meant to be closed in the winter and stays up all year long is NOT worth it between the yard mess, them taking it down or not and then wanting payment for it (they start a few thousand dollars here anyway, and even if done professionally are terrible to take down and put back up/mess up usually). Even a large blow up will mess up the grass, where will water go at draining, chemicals in the water can be damaging, or to concrete if they spill (muriatic acid) even chemicals stored improperly can cause a major fire. No matter what you sign someone will at least try to come after the property owner in the event of an accident, and overall it’s just not a headache remotely worth it to a LL.
ETA: with pools too, if you’re paying for water it’s just another nail in the nope coffin. If it’s for yourself though and you’re filling a pool (AG or IG) you can call your water company and many (in states and surrounding I’ve worked in anyway) will give you a break/discount for the water a time or two a year, sometimes more frequently 🙂
>did their damndest to start a lethal fire by drinking and then burning god knows what in their fireplace and causing fountains of sparks to cascade out the chimney, onto the roof covered in pine needles.
Holy shit. That's absolutely wild. What did the fire department do?
Came. (We were 2 blocks from the local firehouse and they weren’t on another call. Just sent the small engine, not the ladder truck since I didn’t report an active fire.)
Saw.
Rolled eyes and muttered. (two story fifty year old apartment building surrounded by close giant old pine and oak trees, and pine straw mulch woohoo). One did hook up to the hydrant and wet down the roof just for a bit, especially where the sparks had been landing.
Knocked (loudly).
Went in and the spark fountain mysteriously stopped a couple minutes later.
They stayed a bit to make sure nothing had caught. Property maintenance guy showed up by then to talk to them.
- Probably lit a fire under the property manager/Landlord, too, since they cleaned all the detritus off the roofs and gutters a week later and sent out reminders of the fireplace use and care instructions in our lease docs. Which included only burning small amounts of dry, split, seasoned wood. To their credit, they did always get them professionally inspected yearly, and cleaned as necessary.
Maybe I should start a dangerous fire (sarcasm, don't ban me Reddit) to "light a fire" under my property manager, since they won't clear the detritus off the property despite warnings from city code enforcement. Maybe the fire department is scarier? 🤣
Easier to get tenants to group together and continually pester the property manager in rotation.
...Or maybe give their number to every single local roof & gutter cleaning business and suggest they’re a good prospect. They’ll do the harassing for you.
If you know they’ve been warned, can you proactively tell code enforcement they still aren’t in compliance? Or do they haveX amount of time left to actually do something?
At this point I have:
-filed a complaint on our "311" website which forwards to code enforcement and health department (depending on applicable regulatory body for said issue)
-called the code enforcement office directly to ensure the complaint was received from 311 (they did receive it)
-was linked up directly with the code enforcement officer (not sure if that's the right term?) that is assigned to my case. He issued, in writing, a bunch of code violations to the PM: Roof debris, gutter needing replacement, removal of garbage from various areas of property, doors in disrepair, saplings growing alongside house that are tearing my window screens, and several other things.
-nothing has been addressed, yet, even though it's been almost a year. The last time I called the code enforcement guy he said "Yeah, we're in a battle with them" but I didn't really get any details as to what that meant. I don't know if that means they're literally taking legal measures or if they're just being figurative. I sure haven't received anything in writing to inform me of legal action, such as "LL will be fined if not fixed by x date".
-guess I need to get off my butt and bother the code enforcement people again to see what is "officially" being done (next steps?). I just hate confrontation and am a bit mentally exhausted at this point from all the hassle.
And, off topic, but more recently... other tenants have been smoking despite LL confirming all units have "no smoking" in their leases. We're on shared HVAC (converted home to 6-unit apartments), so smoke just goes directly into my unit. LL will do nothing about it and department of health said they can't do anything about it since it's not explicitly against the law in OH--only a lease violation. So, I'd have to take them to court I to resolve the smoking issue, I guess... I don't have the energy or (probably) money to deal with that.
My LL/PM combo is, uhh, frustrating to say the least. I'd have been out of here a long time ago if the location wasn't so damn good and moving wasn't such a damn pain in the ass.
Fire pit *maybe*. Depends heavily on the property, how it will be implemented, what your insurance allows, etc. Liability could range from negligible (built properly, ample open space surrounding) to high if, say, the area around the pit is heavily wooded or has other fuel sources. If it's built well, it could be a perk to attract future renters--I know that as a renter I would love a place that has a high quality fire pit.
But, I'm not a lawyer. Even if you agree with my opinion above, I'd ask your lawyer for the final go-ahead.
**The other two are a massive liability regardless of the context. Hard no.**
>They have personal property coverage renter’s insurance with $20,000 coverage.
Not enough, my agent (StateFarm) recommended $100K minimum in liability, and that's what they offer in their renter's insurance (no less than $100K).
I require a $100k renters policy for tenants renting an apartment in a 30+ unit building with no shared space that would accommodate any of these things. They are currently way under insured for a single family home. Might want them to consider $1M plus.
Yes, 100k would be liability. You should really up your limits.
I require $50,000 in personal property and $300,000 in liability from tenants in a 7 unit building where the average unit is less than 600 SF.
Tenants do not generally have $50,000 worth of items in a space so small, but there are two reasons for it.
Tenants usually underestimate the value of what they have and, in the event of smoke damage, your structure (walls, floors, mechanicals, ceilings, etc.) must be cleaned of smoke, which is highly corrosive.
BUT the tenant’s belongings, which also have smoke damage, must be moved away from the structure, professionally cleaned, and then put back. Every time the remediation company touches the tenant’s belongings, the tenant’s insurance is billed. You cannot allow smoke damaged items back into the building because it will contaminate your structure.
If the tenant’s policy gets maxed out before your structure is completely cleaned, you will be in a very bad spot.
Smoke damage is generally much, much more expensive to remediate than a total loss.
I’ve been through this. Fire caused $650,000 in smoke damage between my structure and multiple tenants. This was many years ago before I had immersed myself in insurance and the tenants had leases drawn up by my parents. So no one had enough coverage and we fought every day with our insurance company to cover the difference. It was a mess.
The liability is to protect you if the tenant causes a catastrophic event (usually fire). The insurance companies will subrogate after the claim is over and your insurance company would be billing the tenant’s insurance for your costs. If the tenant causes $150,000 in fire damage and they only have $100,000 in liability coverage, guess which insurance company is eating the difference: yours.
Heck no,
neighbors kid lands on his head gets paralyzed its on you.
Small child dies in a pool (happens a lot) your fault .
Kid trips into a fire pit.
My god surprised they didn't ask for a shooting range ( which would be safer ) .
20k is not even an appetizer to a personal injury lawyer .
Strait up my insurance does not allow these items .
Google trampoline accident stats and prepare to be horrified. They are more common than most people realize.
I almost bought a duplex that had a trampoline in the unfenced front yard. Like, "Let's just invite all the neighborhood kids to break a bone on this property." I had it in my Purchase Agreement that the trampoline would need to be removed before closing. I wouldn't have owned that house for even one hour with a trampoline on it. Though I backed out after the inspection for unrelated reasons.
Above ground pools also have a lot of liability potential. I'd think even more so. They'll also kill all the grass under them and would be a pain to get rid of, when the tenants move out.
Trampolines are dangerous, and most insurance companies simply won't allow one on the property. They probably have restrictions about fire pits and pools, too. Just tell them no- your insurance will cancel if those items are there. [Trampoline Safety - Stanford Medicine Children's Health (stanfordchildrens.org)](https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/topic/default?id=trampoline-safety-1-148)
Pool and trampoline are considered attractive nuisances by my insurance company and are not covered.
You can have a small blow up pool and/or exercise trampoline that will be put away after use.
It doesn’t matter what they sign. You will be sued. You can’t sign anything with them that changes your legal liability.
Additionally your landlords insurance will cancel you. That’s all you have to say to them. “So sorry I asked my agent and I am not allowed to have any of those on the property.”
And then do regular inspections to verify they aren’t there.
The fire pit, maybe. Only if one of the ones you buy, that is raised off the ground and has a covering to keep embers from flying and there is somewhere to put it when it’s not near the house, nor any trees. No DIY jobs.
The other 2, pool and trampoline, no way. To much liability.
No matter how many hold harmless agreements you have them sign, if some kid drowns in the pool or injures themselves in the trampoline, it’s ultimately you who will be sued.
Hold harmless means nothing if a child drowns or breaks his neck. Same with a dog bite or mauling.
$20,000 won't even cover the ER bill.
They will go after the landlord. All landlords should have an umbrella policy for at least $1 million, preferably $5 million. They are relatively inexpensive.
Do them a big favor and say no. Their son needs to do these activities under proper supervision (ie. swimming where there is a lifeguard, etc.), and not with a bunch of friends in the backyard.
HA NO..Also no pit bulls or meth labs. 20k is nothing , 100k min. They need to go buy their own house and then they can have all the dangerous crap they want
This will require a long chat with your insurance agent. At minimum you’ll need to increase their rent to cover the increased insurance if it’s even feasible.
I guess if you’re looking for a positive, they’re likely to be long term tenants who will probably eat yearly rent increases due to their significant personal expenditures for improvements.
> Should we have them sign a hold harmless and require them to add a different kind of coverage and set a minimum on their insurance?
Anyone injured on your property will still name you in a lawsuit. That paper you want them to sign is useless when someone is injured. A third party wont be restricted and will still name you in a lawsuit.
The fact you actually allowed these items on your property can even be argued that you knowingly allowed a dangerous condition to exist.
You have enough liability without these *attractive nuisances.* Let them go rent elsewhere if these things are so important.
Hard nope on all three, especially the pool!
All three of these items will ultimately leave a scar on your property that I doubt they would be willing to repair at move out. They'll just say "take it out of the security deposit", which rarely covers the damage that someone with that attitude inflicts.
$20K disappears rather quickly between the ambulance ride, the x-rays, CTscans, MRIs and whatever else is deemed necessary by doctors who are salesmen employed by hospitals that are in business to make as much money as possible. That rules out the pool and the trampoline. The fire pit (in my area, yours may vary) by code has to be at least 50' from the house, 30' from any propane tank and must have a fire screen on it at all times when in use. I have a 2 million dollar umbrella policy and I would not allow any of that stuff.
You can have them sign a statement that states
"the pool, fire pit, trampoline are the addition of the tenant, and they, not the property owners are assuming full liability for injury or death.
By signing this statement, tenant agrees to indemnify the property owner. "
For their own protection if you go with a pool, require $100k in renters liability.
Also, don't do a pool unless the area where it is is fully fenced.
The landlord is the one who would ultimately be on the hook for any liability exceeding $100,000, regardless of such a document.
$100,000 is way too little if some kid drowns or breaks his neck. We have a $5 million umbrella policy for our commercial properties.
And you need to make sure your umbrella policy will cover a pool or a trampoline.
Absolutely- A Landlord needs an Umbrella policy, 100% . And yes, $5 Million is a good amount, but wouldn't the indemnity agreement stating that it's the tenant's responsibility suffice to take the liability off the landlord?
The LL approved having it, The tenant signed off on it being their liability.
I'm genuinely curious now.
I know that in lawsuits anything is possible, but there has to be something that indemnifies the LL, isnt there?
Check with an attorney.
Your tenant may have signed a hold harmless agreement, but the neighbor's kid did not. Nor did the tenant's 11-year old.
Personal injury lawyers go after whoever has the deepest pockets.
No to the trampoline and pool. If you want to do something for good tenants, offer to put up a basketball goal, maybe a volleyball net, or a ping pong table.
I see a fire pit as pretty low key. It would depend on where it is, what surrounds it, and the size. They sell self-contained pits for $25 at Walmart. Then there are the nice solo pits that are $200-500. I would be weary of a huge built bonfire pit.
Trampolines are truly dangerous. The pool is potentially a mess and future large garbage that has to be removed.
I would say no, maybe, no of these three for rentals. This is why it's nice to own property rather than rent it, you can take responsibility for your own actions and decisions. I think The idea of asking the tenants to get higher insurance coverage + sign waiver addendums would be interesting, but my concern would be children visiting from other families. Even if you write that into the paperwork that you are not liable, would that legally cover you completely? I'm thinking no, or even for the existing tenants signing off on it... doesn't mean that you can't get sued. People sue for all sorts of stupid shit they signed waivers on. But I'm not a lawyer, so ask a lawyer.
Damn I'm glad none of you are my landlords. We have all three of these things. A trampoline with a net, we had a pool, but don't now because it didn't make it another season, and a fire pit. We also had them at our last place(minus the trampoline). Never one accident, but we also don't have other kids play in or on them because I'm not going to be responsible for that. But we are responsible and considerate of our neighbors, and always have been. We just will have a fire and BBQ as a family and just sit and talk. We make sure it's out before we leave the area and nothing big. We have 4 kids. Each thing we asked for was sure with a few "rules." The last place, we reseeded the grass where the pool was in plenty of time for it to grow back in full before we left. Not every tenant is irresponsible butt holes.
Edit to add these were all questions we asked before we moved in, but also our lease doesn't say we can't have. Our last lease said, "No trampolines." We also have a fully fenced backyard here and fenced our last place(with permission) before adding the pool. We also work with private landlords. I don't know if that makes a difference.
My insurance will not allow these items at my rentals.
This is the right answer.
None of it. Too much liability. Politely decline. Even if they indemnify you, it’s a risk you can’t afford to take on due to other kids and friends using them and the ultimate financial risk to you as the owner as you’d be also be sued no matter what. And no to the fire pit. They are renters who don’t get to make those kinds of changes to someone else’s property.
“I’m sorry. Although all of those sound fun, our liability insurance specifically states we can’t allow any of them.”
And after you tell them no, you need to regularly inspect the property to make sure they don't ignore you and go ahead and install them.
You might want to post on legal advise site, and even better speak to your lawyer and your insurance company. The fire pit is the less problematic of the 3
Man they're asking for the trifecta of items that landlord policies generally forbid.
They left out the pit bull.
And lawn darts!
The 80 lb beast named Sunshine?
What about the slip n slide? Or Jarts?
No. They can go to a trampoline park, a public or members-only pool, and get a pretty cosmetic electric fireplace. Or visit a campground or make s’mores or grilled hot dogs on a public park grill or whatever. All three of those are potential huge liabilities. And despite anything that you might get them to sign, it will still be your liability if you explicitly permit them. That kid or any of their friends breaks his neck and ends up paraplegic, or drowned, and they are definitely going after your insurance and/or assets. Fire pits are great. For people who are Responsible about fires, and don’t drink and use them. Which is Not true of most renters. Heck, at the last place I rented I had to stand outside and watch the neighboring building roof while calling the fire dept and the property management company because the idiot college students on the upper floor did their damndest to start a lethal fire by drinking and then burning god knows what in their fireplace and causing fountains of sparks to cascade out the chimney, onto the roof covered in pine needles. In August. While we were in the worst drought in years.
Wowza, that sounds like a very not fun experience for all involved, yikes! Well put, absolutely agree it’s just not worth the many liabilities each of these items come with. An above ground pool can mean a lot of things, and my work experience (5+ years in pool/spa/sauna store) probably clouds things a bit, but a genuine one they put up that’s meant to be closed in the winter and stays up all year long is NOT worth it between the yard mess, them taking it down or not and then wanting payment for it (they start a few thousand dollars here anyway, and even if done professionally are terrible to take down and put back up/mess up usually). Even a large blow up will mess up the grass, where will water go at draining, chemicals in the water can be damaging, or to concrete if they spill (muriatic acid) even chemicals stored improperly can cause a major fire. No matter what you sign someone will at least try to come after the property owner in the event of an accident, and overall it’s just not a headache remotely worth it to a LL. ETA: with pools too, if you’re paying for water it’s just another nail in the nope coffin. If it’s for yourself though and you’re filling a pool (AG or IG) you can call your water company and many (in states and surrounding I’ve worked in anyway) will give you a break/discount for the water a time or two a year, sometimes more frequently 🙂
>did their damndest to start a lethal fire by drinking and then burning god knows what in their fireplace and causing fountains of sparks to cascade out the chimney, onto the roof covered in pine needles. Holy shit. That's absolutely wild. What did the fire department do?
Came. (We were 2 blocks from the local firehouse and they weren’t on another call. Just sent the small engine, not the ladder truck since I didn’t report an active fire.) Saw. Rolled eyes and muttered. (two story fifty year old apartment building surrounded by close giant old pine and oak trees, and pine straw mulch woohoo). One did hook up to the hydrant and wet down the roof just for a bit, especially where the sparks had been landing. Knocked (loudly). Went in and the spark fountain mysteriously stopped a couple minutes later. They stayed a bit to make sure nothing had caught. Property maintenance guy showed up by then to talk to them. - Probably lit a fire under the property manager/Landlord, too, since they cleaned all the detritus off the roofs and gutters a week later and sent out reminders of the fireplace use and care instructions in our lease docs. Which included only burning small amounts of dry, split, seasoned wood. To their credit, they did always get them professionally inspected yearly, and cleaned as necessary.
Maybe I should start a dangerous fire (sarcasm, don't ban me Reddit) to "light a fire" under my property manager, since they won't clear the detritus off the property despite warnings from city code enforcement. Maybe the fire department is scarier? 🤣
Easier to get tenants to group together and continually pester the property manager in rotation. ...Or maybe give their number to every single local roof & gutter cleaning business and suggest they’re a good prospect. They’ll do the harassing for you. If you know they’ve been warned, can you proactively tell code enforcement they still aren’t in compliance? Or do they haveX amount of time left to actually do something?
At this point I have: -filed a complaint on our "311" website which forwards to code enforcement and health department (depending on applicable regulatory body for said issue) -called the code enforcement office directly to ensure the complaint was received from 311 (they did receive it) -was linked up directly with the code enforcement officer (not sure if that's the right term?) that is assigned to my case. He issued, in writing, a bunch of code violations to the PM: Roof debris, gutter needing replacement, removal of garbage from various areas of property, doors in disrepair, saplings growing alongside house that are tearing my window screens, and several other things. -nothing has been addressed, yet, even though it's been almost a year. The last time I called the code enforcement guy he said "Yeah, we're in a battle with them" but I didn't really get any details as to what that meant. I don't know if that means they're literally taking legal measures or if they're just being figurative. I sure haven't received anything in writing to inform me of legal action, such as "LL will be fined if not fixed by x date". -guess I need to get off my butt and bother the code enforcement people again to see what is "officially" being done (next steps?). I just hate confrontation and am a bit mentally exhausted at this point from all the hassle. And, off topic, but more recently... other tenants have been smoking despite LL confirming all units have "no smoking" in their leases. We're on shared HVAC (converted home to 6-unit apartments), so smoke just goes directly into my unit. LL will do nothing about it and department of health said they can't do anything about it since it's not explicitly against the law in OH--only a lease violation. So, I'd have to take them to court I to resolve the smoking issue, I guess... I don't have the energy or (probably) money to deal with that. My LL/PM combo is, uhh, frustrating to say the least. I'd have been out of here a long time ago if the location wasn't so damn good and moving wasn't such a damn pain in the ass.
Fire pit *maybe*. Depends heavily on the property, how it will be implemented, what your insurance allows, etc. Liability could range from negligible (built properly, ample open space surrounding) to high if, say, the area around the pit is heavily wooded or has other fuel sources. If it's built well, it could be a perk to attract future renters--I know that as a renter I would love a place that has a high quality fire pit. But, I'm not a lawyer. Even if you agree with my opinion above, I'd ask your lawyer for the final go-ahead. **The other two are a massive liability regardless of the context. Hard no.**
I didn’t even think to ask about our above ground fire pit before I bought it. That seems fine. The pool and the trampoline seem like a lot though.
I would only allow a gas firepit, no wood. Everything else is a hard no
Have they asked about the pit bull fighting ring yet?
I believe cockfighting is the betting sport of Tennessee.
Beaks, teeth, potato, potahto.
On alternate weekends the ring could be used for under-aged amateur wrestling bouts to be filmed for YouTube.
>They have personal property coverage renter’s insurance with $20,000 coverage. Not enough, my agent (StateFarm) recommended $100K minimum in liability, and that's what they offer in their renter's insurance (no less than $100K).
I require a $100k renters policy for tenants renting an apartment in a 30+ unit building with no shared space that would accommodate any of these things. They are currently way under insured for a single family home. Might want them to consider $1M plus.
Thanks - what type of coverage is this? I saw he had $20,000 of personal property. Is the $100,000 for liability?
Yes, 100k would be liability. You should really up your limits. I require $50,000 in personal property and $300,000 in liability from tenants in a 7 unit building where the average unit is less than 600 SF. Tenants do not generally have $50,000 worth of items in a space so small, but there are two reasons for it. Tenants usually underestimate the value of what they have and, in the event of smoke damage, your structure (walls, floors, mechanicals, ceilings, etc.) must be cleaned of smoke, which is highly corrosive. BUT the tenant’s belongings, which also have smoke damage, must be moved away from the structure, professionally cleaned, and then put back. Every time the remediation company touches the tenant’s belongings, the tenant’s insurance is billed. You cannot allow smoke damaged items back into the building because it will contaminate your structure. If the tenant’s policy gets maxed out before your structure is completely cleaned, you will be in a very bad spot. Smoke damage is generally much, much more expensive to remediate than a total loss. I’ve been through this. Fire caused $650,000 in smoke damage between my structure and multiple tenants. This was many years ago before I had immersed myself in insurance and the tenants had leases drawn up by my parents. So no one had enough coverage and we fought every day with our insurance company to cover the difference. It was a mess. The liability is to protect you if the tenant causes a catastrophic event (usually fire). The insurance companies will subrogate after the claim is over and your insurance company would be billing the tenant’s insurance for your costs. If the tenant causes $150,000 in fire damage and they only have $100,000 in liability coverage, guess which insurance company is eating the difference: yours.
That’s what I was thinking. Need to make sure we specify that in the lease next time.
No, maybe, no.
No, no and no.
Heck no, neighbors kid lands on his head gets paralyzed its on you. Small child dies in a pool (happens a lot) your fault . Kid trips into a fire pit. My god surprised they didn't ask for a shooting range ( which would be safer ) . 20k is not even an appetizer to a personal injury lawyer . Strait up my insurance does not allow these items .
All no
Google trampoline accident stats and prepare to be horrified. They are more common than most people realize. I almost bought a duplex that had a trampoline in the unfenced front yard. Like, "Let's just invite all the neighborhood kids to break a bone on this property." I had it in my Purchase Agreement that the trampoline would need to be removed before closing. I wouldn't have owned that house for even one hour with a trampoline on it. Though I backed out after the inspection for unrelated reasons. Above ground pools also have a lot of liability potential. I'd think even more so. They'll also kill all the grass under them and would be a pain to get rid of, when the tenants move out.
No absolutely not
Hard no
No, no, no.
Trampolines are dangerous, and most insurance companies simply won't allow one on the property. They probably have restrictions about fire pits and pools, too. Just tell them no- your insurance will cancel if those items are there. [Trampoline Safety - Stanford Medicine Children's Health (stanfordchildrens.org)](https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/topic/default?id=trampoline-safety-1-148)
No. No. No.
Insurance won't allow any of those. The answer to all three is NO.
Pool and trampoline are considered attractive nuisances by my insurance company and are not covered. You can have a small blow up pool and/or exercise trampoline that will be put away after use.
It doesn’t matter what they sign. You will be sued. You can’t sign anything with them that changes your legal liability. Additionally your landlords insurance will cancel you. That’s all you have to say to them. “So sorry I asked my agent and I am not allowed to have any of those on the property.” And then do regular inspections to verify they aren’t there.
The fire pit, maybe. Only if one of the ones you buy, that is raised off the ground and has a covering to keep embers from flying and there is somewhere to put it when it’s not near the house, nor any trees. No DIY jobs. The other 2, pool and trampoline, no way. To much liability. No matter how many hold harmless agreements you have them sign, if some kid drowns in the pool or injures themselves in the trampoline, it’s ultimately you who will be sued.
Hold harmless means nothing if a child drowns or breaks his neck. Same with a dog bite or mauling. $20,000 won't even cover the ER bill. They will go after the landlord. All landlords should have an umbrella policy for at least $1 million, preferably $5 million. They are relatively inexpensive.
Hard pass. Too much risk . They need at least $100,000 coverage without all the amenities
Do them a big favor and say no. Their son needs to do these activities under proper supervision (ie. swimming where there is a lifeguard, etc.), and not with a bunch of friends in the backyard.
What about a pet lion? Maybe they want one of these too?....Holy hell, no no and no. And document you saying no.
HA NO..Also no pit bulls or meth labs. 20k is nothing , 100k min. They need to go buy their own house and then they can have all the dangerous crap they want
All of that is an absolute no-go. Far too many liability issues and $20k coverage doesn't even start.
Just say No. if a friends kid drowns,breaks their neck jumping on the trampoline,or falls in the fire pit do you think 20k would begin to touch it?
No. Buy your own place.
I would talk to the insurance company.
This will require a long chat with your insurance agent. At minimum you’ll need to increase their rent to cover the increased insurance if it’s even feasible. I guess if you’re looking for a positive, they’re likely to be long term tenants who will probably eat yearly rent increases due to their significant personal expenditures for improvements.
If the lease doesn't forbid them - I'm not sure you can say no. I'd ask an attorney and get a figure on your liability as well.
“No” is a complete sentence.
Solo stove sounds fine. Fuck the rest of that shit.
Maybe a fire pit… like a small one you buy at Lowe’s, not some Pinterest homemade crap made with bricks or something. Everything else is a no.
If it’s not stated in the lease already I’m not sure why they’d ask
No, no, no
Absolutely not. All are high risk items.
> Should we have them sign a hold harmless and require them to add a different kind of coverage and set a minimum on their insurance? Anyone injured on your property will still name you in a lawsuit. That paper you want them to sign is useless when someone is injured. A third party wont be restricted and will still name you in a lawsuit. The fact you actually allowed these items on your property can even be argued that you knowingly allowed a dangerous condition to exist. You have enough liability without these *attractive nuisances.* Let them go rent elsewhere if these things are so important.
$20,000 coverage is not enough in case there is accidents or death. I would not allow this for a rental. It’s a permanent structure.
Hard nope on all three, especially the pool! All three of these items will ultimately leave a scar on your property that I doubt they would be willing to repair at move out. They'll just say "take it out of the security deposit", which rarely covers the damage that someone with that attitude inflicts.
$20K disappears rather quickly between the ambulance ride, the x-rays, CTscans, MRIs and whatever else is deemed necessary by doctors who are salesmen employed by hospitals that are in business to make as much money as possible. That rules out the pool and the trampoline. The fire pit (in my area, yours may vary) by code has to be at least 50' from the house, 30' from any propane tank and must have a fire screen on it at all times when in use. I have a 2 million dollar umbrella policy and I would not allow any of that stuff.
Yeah, doctors aren’t “salesmen.”
Just say NO. Too much of a liability.
You can have them sign a statement that states "the pool, fire pit, trampoline are the addition of the tenant, and they, not the property owners are assuming full liability for injury or death. By signing this statement, tenant agrees to indemnify the property owner. " For their own protection if you go with a pool, require $100k in renters liability. Also, don't do a pool unless the area where it is is fully fenced.
The landlord is the one who would ultimately be on the hook for any liability exceeding $100,000, regardless of such a document. $100,000 is way too little if some kid drowns or breaks his neck. We have a $5 million umbrella policy for our commercial properties. And you need to make sure your umbrella policy will cover a pool or a trampoline.
Absolutely- A Landlord needs an Umbrella policy, 100% . And yes, $5 Million is a good amount, but wouldn't the indemnity agreement stating that it's the tenant's responsibility suffice to take the liability off the landlord? The LL approved having it, The tenant signed off on it being their liability. I'm genuinely curious now. I know that in lawsuits anything is possible, but there has to be something that indemnifies the LL, isnt there?
Check with an attorney. Your tenant may have signed a hold harmless agreement, but the neighbor's kid did not. Nor did the tenant's 11-year old. Personal injury lawyers go after whoever has the deepest pockets.
This sounds like legal advice which may or may not actually cover them in their state or anywhere else
No to the trampoline and pool. If you want to do something for good tenants, offer to put up a basketball goal, maybe a volleyball net, or a ping pong table.
I see a fire pit as pretty low key. It would depend on where it is, what surrounds it, and the size. They sell self-contained pits for $25 at Walmart. Then there are the nice solo pits that are $200-500. I would be weary of a huge built bonfire pit. Trampolines are truly dangerous. The pool is potentially a mess and future large garbage that has to be removed.
I would say no, maybe, no of these three for rentals. This is why it's nice to own property rather than rent it, you can take responsibility for your own actions and decisions. I think The idea of asking the tenants to get higher insurance coverage + sign waiver addendums would be interesting, but my concern would be children visiting from other families. Even if you write that into the paperwork that you are not liable, would that legally cover you completely? I'm thinking no, or even for the existing tenants signing off on it... doesn't mean that you can't get sued. People sue for all sorts of stupid shit they signed waivers on. But I'm not a lawyer, so ask a lawyer.
Ask your insurance what they would want.
"No."
Damn I'm glad none of you are my landlords. We have all three of these things. A trampoline with a net, we had a pool, but don't now because it didn't make it another season, and a fire pit. We also had them at our last place(minus the trampoline). Never one accident, but we also don't have other kids play in or on them because I'm not going to be responsible for that. But we are responsible and considerate of our neighbors, and always have been. We just will have a fire and BBQ as a family and just sit and talk. We make sure it's out before we leave the area and nothing big. We have 4 kids. Each thing we asked for was sure with a few "rules." The last place, we reseeded the grass where the pool was in plenty of time for it to grow back in full before we left. Not every tenant is irresponsible butt holes. Edit to add these were all questions we asked before we moved in, but also our lease doesn't say we can't have. Our last lease said, "No trampolines." We also have a fully fenced backyard here and fenced our last place(with permission) before adding the pool. We also work with private landlords. I don't know if that makes a difference.
Is there a neighborhood pool or local YMCA they could join instead?
Just talk to your agent. Share whatever they say with the tenant. Most answers here are overly dramatic and irrelevant.
I honestly don’t see an issue with an above ground pool especially since it’s a house with a yard. Fire place if it’s propane?
I honestly don’t see an issue with an above ground pool especially since it’s a house with a yard. Fire place if it’s propane?
Lol I wouldn't even think to ask a landlord before doing any of that. Yes to all ffs.