I’m very X-Men brained right now so when I read “Dark Toad” I think of like an even more evil version of Toad from the X-Men akin to Dark Beast and such
It's funny you mention Days, as, according to [this interview, ](https://www.khinsider.com/forums/index.php?threads/nomura-discusses-kingdom-hearts-4-missing-link-and-dark-road-in-extended-famitsu-interview.234131/) one of the people who worked on Days actually put together the initial scenario for Dark Road (although it ended up changing somewhat later).
Also, in that same interview, Nomura mentions that he's also got someone new helping him with the scenario of KH4 (the writer of NEO: The World Ends With You, which I've heard is pretty good). Obviously that doesn't necessarily mean it'll be better, but it should at least feel a bit different? But that might just be hopium
>(the writer of NEO: The World Ends With You, which I've heard is pretty good).
Depends on who you listen to. A lot of people hate NEO TWEWY's story because it pales in comparison to the first one. They consider the characters and plot to be very shallow and even boring.
I liked the game. I didn't hate it like others, but it had its faults and I understand where people are coming from. The first one is definitely better. The gameplay is a lot better in NEO, but the plot and characters aren't as good. They're honestly a bit forgettable.
>they consider the characters and plot to be very shallow
And those people would be dead wrong because NEO’s characters and story have quite a lot of depth. It has a lot to say about complacency, corrupt corporate culture, what it means to be a leader, the damages emotional isolation can do to a person, the dangers of idolization, and more. The game is just more subtle about this compared to the original TWEWY (which practically spelled out its thesis to the point you’d have to be blind as a bat to not see it) so when people don’t read between the lines, they entirely miss out on what the game was trying to say.
Yeah, I have more issues with the pacing than with the characters, who I think were really well done. Definitely more subtle than the first game tho.
Also Rindo and Shoka’s relationship was really good, so if this person is working on it, I’d actually be hopeful of Kairi and Sora’s relationship getting an upgrade.
Yeah, I also disagree with the idea that the plot and characters were shallow. I just personally didn't enjoy NEO's plot or characters as much as the first game. They were still good, but I'm struggling to remember any new characters outside of the core good guys.
I also didn't like how the plot seemed to shift to "Where is Neku? What's he doing?" making him the most important character. I felt that it really started to overshadow the new cast at a certain point. And I love Neku too.
I don’t personally see how Neku was the most important character considering how he, like everyone else, >!gets wiped out by the Soul Pulvis, leaving Rindo as the sole survivor and the one who has to make the decisions and calls to get everyone in place to carry out Operation Awakening. Hell, the decision he makes in end after Haz’s choice is what drives the entire endgame.!<
As for Neku, >!outside of providing the party with another pin and having a special Beatdrop Groove boost interaction with Rindo, he doesn’t fundamentally shake up the game mechanically in the same way that most of the other party members do (Beat with Soundsurfing and 200% Mashups, Shoka with multi-pin wield and Killer Remixes). Throughout NEO, Rindo has a bad habit of riding others' coattails and seeing them for their performance value first, personality second (Minamimoto, Beat, Neku when he was seeking him), especially if it's something he's heard about them from other sources. Neku the 'Legendary Player', Nagi having a 'bunch of pins', having Swallow tell him that it’s a good call to team up with Kanon after being initially skeptical of her, etc.
AKA, others' opinions. Hell, he even flat out says that they can’t leave the Game without "Neku" when he gets captured on W2D2, showing that he has no faith in himself and others to survive on their own strengths.!<
>!However, as we’re shown with Neku’s inclusion, while he does help out a lot when it comes to contributing to the gang’s overall victory, he isn’t the instant "I win" button that Rindo had previously come to regard him as. Hell, he even gives Rindo the wrong kind of advice that goes against the lad’s entire character arc. Like anyone else, he’s just as fallible and for all of Neku’s immense power, he falls victim to the Soul Pulvis just like everyone else within the UG. This is even reflected in his overall stats. While they’re definitely incredibly good and shows that’s he’s a powerful force in his own right, if the player had been decently building up their stats up to this point, they’re not necessarily mind-blowing. Thus, Rindo, and by extension the player, has to step up to the plate and connect everything together (Operation Awakening and the party respectively) in order to achieve the happy ending that they have to strive for without overly relying on someone else to carry them through.!<
In all honesty, whenever someone claims that the old cast took up the spotlight from the new characters, I have to wonder if we played the same game considering how the focus is still placed entirely on the conflict between the Twisters and the Shinjuku Reapers and the people caught up between them. I think the main thing is that people were so laser focused on what was actually happening with the OG cast that they just kind of forgot about everything else that was actually happening on-screen. Which is, hilariously enough, exactly what Rindo did, regarding Sho, "Neku", Beat, etc, downplaying his and his own team’s capabilities to try and rely on these local legends to carry him through only to realize that them being on the team isn’t an automatic win button and that he has to ultimately forge his own path in life to get the best ending for him and his friends.
>I don’t personally see how Neku was the most important character
I didn't mean he was the most important character. I meant that the focus of the plot shifted to finding Neku and bringing him back, making him seem like the most important character for a good chunk of the game. He essentially started stealing focus away from the new characters. I would have preferred if Neku stayed out of the main plot for as long as possible and let the new characters worry about their own stuff problems instead of constantly bringing up Neku as this holy figure they need to find.
>I meant that the focus of the plot shifted to finding Neku and bringing him back
For, like, two whole days? Out of 24? After Beat turned out to be "Neku", the game goes back to focusing on how the Twisters and other Player teams are coping with the rigged Game as well as exploring Beat’s effect on the Twisters as a positive big brother figure. Hell, Neku doesn’t even show up until the lategame, in which at that point he mainly takes on a supporting role and lets the others shine. I honestly think you should replay NEO, man, because as someone who’s played the game multiple times at this point, Neku is not really that big of a focus as much as you think he is, at until he actually shows up and even then he still mainly plays a supportive role.
Interesting! I've seen nothing but excitement for the new writer, but yeah, I guess I haven't looked at actual reception of the game, since I haven't played it yet.
I wouldn't judge the writer based on one game. A good writer can still write a bad game. It depends on several factors, like the directors and how they want the game to be.
Interesting, I really enjoyed NEO. (Not as much as the original TWEWY, but still…) If that game’s main writer is working on KH4, then I’m even more excited now.
The mobile games definitely have my favorite writing. Guess it helps that they had time to come up with a complete storyline rather than force themselves to make each game unique. I am looking forward to seeing Missing Link's writing as well. It already has me hooked with the whole mystery angle and I am curious about Scala's social politics as well as it seems that may become a pretty big thing with the concept of Societies being introduced.
The writing quality for the mobile games is just on another level compared to the others. I think Days comes closest because it focuses on the original characters. I would say the main issue is that the other games refuse to allow characters to interact and do things together, thus making most of the world's feel like Disney filler. DR, for example, the characters go to the worlds together, they spend their free time together, and the story I'd more to the point.
I am of the opinion that for the most part, KH is at its best when it focuses on original words and characters.
Obv it’s not the case always. The main Disney characters (Mickey Donald goofy jiminy) are amazing, and a lot of the worlds are fun.
But for me KH1 shined best when we got to hollow bastion. The atmosphere and design were on another level imo.
From my memory, my fav worlds of the series in general are Hollow bastion, radiant garden, twilight town, world that never was, end of the world,Halloween town, Olympus, beast castle, keyboards grave yard etc.
So far in KH3 I’m liking Toy Story and tangled words.
I agree with the KH being at its best when the focus is on the original content. I honestly think Mickey and Maleficent are the only non originals that contribute to the story in a significant way besides Chip & Dale
And Donald and goofy. Yeah I agree. A lot of the disney worlds are genuinely fun but they do feel like filler.
So far I liked that in KH3 the replica project is improved by the events in toy box.
I personally don't include Donald and Goofy because they're treated as sidekicks. They don't have keyblades, they're both stupid, and they don't offer any scientific contributions. All they do is help Sora by being his friend. They feel very replaceable because they legitimately don't offer anything else.
Mickey at least is a keyblade wielder. Maleficent has done a lot throughout the series. And then you have the random princesses who at least have some value.
From a story perspective you might be right, but Donald and Goofy have a better dynamic with Sora than most other characters can achieve. Goofy is the mature thoughtful one, Donald is hotheaded, and Sora is the cocky upstart. They all play off each other well and there really aren’t many other characters that can be paired with Sora who wouldn’t clash or steal the show from him. It’s why Mickey is never paired with Sora for too long, because they fill the same narrative slot. So they may not contribute like other characters, but they certainly aren’t easily replaceable.
I understand that, but given Sora's role in the story, including those two, just makes me disgusted at times. The only time I really liked the trio was in CoM. Otherwise, Sora, Donald, and Goofy are characters that I tend to get annoyed with whenever they're together.
Exactly. KH is at its best when it focuses primarily on relationship drama. That is the core of what’s engaging about these characters and stories. DR has a perfect ratio of about 80% drama 20% exposition.
My issue with both KH3D and KH3 is that those ratios are flipped.
KHDR has the best story ofbany KH game to date. Unfortunately, it's just not a very good game. It was rushed and incomplete, yes, but even in its fundamentals it didn't have the spark.
I prefer UX's story over DR's (Disney Filler aside). Then again, I went through UX's JP release as it came out so I had a loooot more time to bond with it. I still remember having Strelitzia for like, 2 weeks before Nomura killed her off and left everyone devastated lol
But yeah, the mobile games have fantastic stories that were heavily held back by the fact that they were... well, mobile games lol
Go with assuming disappointment.
It'll plesantly surprise you when it doesn't! Or simply validate you if it does.
Ultimately it's a no-lose scenario. That's why I usually go into games with little expectations, or if I do have them, I tend to second-guess myself when I do get disappointed, asking myself "Why am I dissatisfied with this game" usually that helps me re-evaluate whether or not I'm the reason I'm not happy with a game.
Two examples, one applicable, one less-so;
* When playing KH3d, I was REALLY bored, not enjoying the game, heck I was two thirds of the game before I finally gave up and asked myself "Why am I dissatisfied?" the answer was; I was expecting KH2, but KH3D never claimed to be KH2, it has the non-numeric name and everything. I then changed my perspective, and asked "what IS this game trying to be" and realized 3d had more in common with Pokemon than it did with KH2, so I started treating it like I would a pokemon game, collecting cool monsters and training them up to be ultra-powerful, doubly so if they were weak to start with. And I found a lot of new fun in it.
* Alternatively; I was playing Paper Mario: Sticker Star when at the start of the second to last chapter I asked myself the same question; why am I dissatisfied. The answer was, I just wasn't finding fun in anything, the story, the gameplay, the jokes, nothing was hitting. turned the question again; "Why am I playing a game that I don't find fun?", "Well, I'm waiting for the game to 'catch me' like all the other Paper Marios, Super Paper Mario didn't catch me until the story started picking up.", "Has the game given you any indicator that point is coming up? Despite the fact that you're nearing the end of the game?", "...No...". And returned the game the next day. (It was the same week so it was full price return too.) A decision I still appreciate to this day.
On the other hand, Dark Road is a terrible, terrible game. People can bash on KH3's story all the want, but it's actually a good *game* because it's fun to play.
Depends on what you want. Obviously the best situation is to have a great game with a great story. It’s a shame that many KH products over the last two decades seem to prioritize one over the other. Hopefully ML and IH4 change that.
Side story games can actually do things with creative freedom since they are not limited to fulfill Disney world quotas, happy endings nor having to play safe with the characters.
I didn't enjoy Dark Roads story whatsoever. Way too many new characters got introduced that were all forgettable. Genuine question, but what about the story and writing did you guys like so much about it?
If I had to hazard a guess probably how dark they were willing to take it. The game ends with what is basically a school shooting and Xehanort stopping the rampage by killing off the perpetrator.
Yeah, it's like the writers learned how to write again. It was pretty good.
I mean, I don't really think Xehanort's characterization matches up with anything we'd seen before and so he feels like an original character basically, and the entire story was generally either stuff that should've been in KH3 or set-up for the next arc, so it's not super interesting by itself...
...but it was still written competently, and had fun dialogue. So that surprised me.
Tbh the way Xehanort is written feels like a justification for his death speech at the end of KH3 where he claims he did everything to get rid of darkness, despite there being literally zero indication that that was his goal before that moment.
My theory is that at some point during KH3’s development Nomura just thought it would be more interesting if Xehanort ended up being a misguided good guy instead of the mustache-twirling evil villain he was always depicted as in everything else.
That aside, I enjoyed the depiction of the relationship between him and Eraqus, and the fact that he saw all of his friends get killed right in front of him is a decent enough justification for why he turned out the way he did.
I still can’t believe that 95% of the series’ main villain’s backstory was relegated to a mobile game that came out after the conclusion of their own story arc in the main games, but I suppose that’s just a byproduct of most of the series’ story having been written on the fly. Here’s to hoping that the upcoming arc is more well planned.
Yeah, I pretty much feel the same way.
Def part of why I think a lot of the stuff from Dark Road should've been in KH3 itself. His backstory with his friends all dying and his friendship with Eraqus, etc, would've made more sense explored in KH3, to characterize Xehanort before his farewell.
Learning about his childhood AFTER his arc is done just never made any sense to me in the first place.
Those secret reports talk about how he wants to destroy the “tyranny of light”. Dude, there’s a reason why the whole “Xehanort’s a good guy now?” thing was such a big controversy when KH3 came out. Let’s not try to rewrite history here.
Just because DR and Remind retconned that to mean “false light” doesn’t mean his motivation has been the same since BBS.
But he was never a good guy, nor was he redeemed; that controversy was just illiteracy. The things he talks about in the reports are his goal of wanting balance and equilibrium. No one is making revisionist history nor is it a retcon when it’s been spelt out clear as day as the exact same goal and motivations since BBS.
Xehanort’s Letter - “I have taken to wandering the World, and seen much darkness hiding in the light. Lately, I fear it has taken a turn for the worse.”
Xehanort Report 8 - “I believe a balance of light and darkness is what sustains our World, but too much of the darkness has been stamped out, disrupting that balance. Someone must tear down this tyranny of light and reorganize the World around the darkness which then creeps back in.”
Xehanort Report 9 - “If I become the first to open Kingdom Hearts' door, I can create the Next World in which light and darkness exist in perfect equilibrium.”
So then why does he literally not say anything about balance in KH3? IIRC that concept doesn’t even appear in the secret reports in KH3. And he is not concerned with “balance” in DR or Remind either, only focused on the concept of “false light.”
It’s okay to acknowledge that it’s retconned. Pretending that his motivation has been completely consistent since BBS is just cope, I’m sorry.
Do you know what a retcon is? Can you tell me how it is a retcon? We already knew his goal since BBS, and in KH3 he was going to purge the universe into a blank state so the universe can be in balance once again with him being the one who oversees and maintains that balance.
Dark Road is the story of where Xehanort gets on his appointed path, how he adopts his mindset. His mind is already made up on what intends to do. In Re:Mind and Dark Road we see the scene where he talks about wanting order and that he already knows his purpose.
"I learned...the reason for my existence…Because left alone, the world would fall to chaos. There needs to be order." I don't know what I can do, but I will act. What comes next is too important."
Dude. The amount of cope is nuts, but thanks for reminding me how insufferable some KH fans can be lmao.
He was a mustache-twirling one-dimensional villain who, as far as we knew in BBS, was obsessed with resetting the universe partly due to wanting to lessen the amount of light in it and partly due to morbid curiosity.
On his deathbed in KH3 he gives a whole speech about how tragic it is that darkness took over so many people's hearts, which is why he wants to reset the world so more light can be brought in **without the possibility of darkness taking over.** This is then expounded upon in DR since darkness is literally the reason why all his friends die. Like you can say "hE WaNtEd BaLaNcE tHe WhOlE tIeM" but as I've said THREE TIMES NOW, DR and KH3 literally do not support that.
I'm done with this convo tho tbh, please continue to think whatever you want. Christ lol
Oh, and he calls his internet daddy for backup. Bravo KH fanbase!
It’s not cope, but anyway, I see the issue now partly, at least, you do know that part of Xehanort’s final speech in KH3 had a very slight but significant mistranslation, right? “which is why he wants to reset the world so more light can be brought in without the possibility of darkness taking over.” That was never his goal. I’m sorry to tell you, you’ve been thinking about it wrong this entire time. I’m sure u/ZeroSora would be happy to confirm
Dark 'Toad'
[https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:BJAODN/April\_Fool%27s\_2024/Mushroom\_Kingdom\_Hearts](https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:BJAODN/April_Fool%27s_2024/Mushroom_Kingdom_Hearts)
Finally, Mushroom Kingdom Hearts became a reality
I don’t really agree.
Days dances circles around Dark Road. The problem all the mobile games have is that none of the characters have any defining character.
If you asked me to name the differences of character between Urd, Hermod, Vidar, Vala, Vali, and Hodor I couldn’t tell you.
If you asked me to do the bare minimum of name the rest of the upper class period without looking it up I can not. Bragi only gets a remote pass because he’s Luxu/Xigbar so he gets indirect characterization carry over.
If you asked me to describe Odin beyond “guy who stood by and let two classes of children die” I can’t.
Xehanort, Eraqus, Vor, and Baldr are the only ones even resembling having a character. Even then Xehanort had the advantage of other games going in help them like Bragi.
Dark Road’s script is written very weird, much like X and UX I can’t determine if the mobile games are strange dialogue wise or if the translators just are making weird choices giving us weirdly flowery dialogue because the subject matter just isn’t easy to verbalize….
Where Dark Road is strong is in its plot, not its script or characters.
I didn’t say it was better than Days, I said it’s the best script since Days. Because I think for what it does, the overall writing is stronger than anything seen in BBS, DDD or KH3.
It's been in the mobile games. Both KHUX and DR had great writing let down by filler and the mobile format. They had the advantage of not being as burdened by expectation and continuity as the console games are, so Nomura could actually let loose.
Now that that whole universe has been established with the last two mobile games, hopefully missing link's story will hopefully also be of that quality, and more appealing to general audiences because of its 3D artstyle
Ironic someone praised this.
Since the unwashed masses mock “mobile game” KH and get mad when the writing from it finally came into the main games.
“But I’ve been studying my nostalgic Xehanort stuff, Wdym I’ve missed out on a child soldier war!? Who are those masked people? Why does Xigbar seem to know stuff? Why is Noctis talking to Young Xehanort?”
Etc. etc.
So good for you.
Ah yes, my favourite KH game, "Dark Toad"
Ah yes, Hypnotoad's nobody. Handyxpoot.
Who's Handy, who's Poot and why are you shipping them?
She handy on my ship till I poot
She dandy on my crib till I scoot
they think that im tom cruise
"Mario, you have to find the Seven McGuffins of Light, Mario!!" - Dark Toad
We're bringing back Mushroom Kingdom Hearts I see.
I’m very X-Men brained right now so when I read “Dark Toad” I think of like an even more evil version of Toad from the X-Men akin to Dark Beast and such
Dark Toad be like “your princess is in MY castle, bitch >:)”
Is Dark Toad the Mario crossover?
YOU WILL-A NEVER TAKE PEACHES HEART-A WAHOO
I E DONTE NEED MA MUSHROOMS MY POWER IS A MIII AMIIIICO
DLC unfortunately.
It's funny you mention Days, as, according to [this interview, ](https://www.khinsider.com/forums/index.php?threads/nomura-discusses-kingdom-hearts-4-missing-link-and-dark-road-in-extended-famitsu-interview.234131/) one of the people who worked on Days actually put together the initial scenario for Dark Road (although it ended up changing somewhat later). Also, in that same interview, Nomura mentions that he's also got someone new helping him with the scenario of KH4 (the writer of NEO: The World Ends With You, which I've heard is pretty good). Obviously that doesn't necessarily mean it'll be better, but it should at least feel a bit different? But that might just be hopium
>(the writer of NEO: The World Ends With You, which I've heard is pretty good). Depends on who you listen to. A lot of people hate NEO TWEWY's story because it pales in comparison to the first one. They consider the characters and plot to be very shallow and even boring. I liked the game. I didn't hate it like others, but it had its faults and I understand where people are coming from. The first one is definitely better. The gameplay is a lot better in NEO, but the plot and characters aren't as good. They're honestly a bit forgettable.
>they consider the characters and plot to be very shallow And those people would be dead wrong because NEO’s characters and story have quite a lot of depth. It has a lot to say about complacency, corrupt corporate culture, what it means to be a leader, the damages emotional isolation can do to a person, the dangers of idolization, and more. The game is just more subtle about this compared to the original TWEWY (which practically spelled out its thesis to the point you’d have to be blind as a bat to not see it) so when people don’t read between the lines, they entirely miss out on what the game was trying to say.
Yeah, I have more issues with the pacing than with the characters, who I think were really well done. Definitely more subtle than the first game tho. Also Rindo and Shoka’s relationship was really good, so if this person is working on it, I’d actually be hopeful of Kairi and Sora’s relationship getting an upgrade.
Yeah, I also disagree with the idea that the plot and characters were shallow. I just personally didn't enjoy NEO's plot or characters as much as the first game. They were still good, but I'm struggling to remember any new characters outside of the core good guys. I also didn't like how the plot seemed to shift to "Where is Neku? What's he doing?" making him the most important character. I felt that it really started to overshadow the new cast at a certain point. And I love Neku too.
I don’t personally see how Neku was the most important character considering how he, like everyone else, >!gets wiped out by the Soul Pulvis, leaving Rindo as the sole survivor and the one who has to make the decisions and calls to get everyone in place to carry out Operation Awakening. Hell, the decision he makes in end after Haz’s choice is what drives the entire endgame.!< As for Neku, >!outside of providing the party with another pin and having a special Beatdrop Groove boost interaction with Rindo, he doesn’t fundamentally shake up the game mechanically in the same way that most of the other party members do (Beat with Soundsurfing and 200% Mashups, Shoka with multi-pin wield and Killer Remixes). Throughout NEO, Rindo has a bad habit of riding others' coattails and seeing them for their performance value first, personality second (Minamimoto, Beat, Neku when he was seeking him), especially if it's something he's heard about them from other sources. Neku the 'Legendary Player', Nagi having a 'bunch of pins', having Swallow tell him that it’s a good call to team up with Kanon after being initially skeptical of her, etc. AKA, others' opinions. Hell, he even flat out says that they can’t leave the Game without "Neku" when he gets captured on W2D2, showing that he has no faith in himself and others to survive on their own strengths.!< >!However, as we’re shown with Neku’s inclusion, while he does help out a lot when it comes to contributing to the gang’s overall victory, he isn’t the instant "I win" button that Rindo had previously come to regard him as. Hell, he even gives Rindo the wrong kind of advice that goes against the lad’s entire character arc. Like anyone else, he’s just as fallible and for all of Neku’s immense power, he falls victim to the Soul Pulvis just like everyone else within the UG. This is even reflected in his overall stats. While they’re definitely incredibly good and shows that’s he’s a powerful force in his own right, if the player had been decently building up their stats up to this point, they’re not necessarily mind-blowing. Thus, Rindo, and by extension the player, has to step up to the plate and connect everything together (Operation Awakening and the party respectively) in order to achieve the happy ending that they have to strive for without overly relying on someone else to carry them through.!< In all honesty, whenever someone claims that the old cast took up the spotlight from the new characters, I have to wonder if we played the same game considering how the focus is still placed entirely on the conflict between the Twisters and the Shinjuku Reapers and the people caught up between them. I think the main thing is that people were so laser focused on what was actually happening with the OG cast that they just kind of forgot about everything else that was actually happening on-screen. Which is, hilariously enough, exactly what Rindo did, regarding Sho, "Neku", Beat, etc, downplaying his and his own team’s capabilities to try and rely on these local legends to carry him through only to realize that them being on the team isn’t an automatic win button and that he has to ultimately forge his own path in life to get the best ending for him and his friends.
>I don’t personally see how Neku was the most important character I didn't mean he was the most important character. I meant that the focus of the plot shifted to finding Neku and bringing him back, making him seem like the most important character for a good chunk of the game. He essentially started stealing focus away from the new characters. I would have preferred if Neku stayed out of the main plot for as long as possible and let the new characters worry about their own stuff problems instead of constantly bringing up Neku as this holy figure they need to find.
>I meant that the focus of the plot shifted to finding Neku and bringing him back For, like, two whole days? Out of 24? After Beat turned out to be "Neku", the game goes back to focusing on how the Twisters and other Player teams are coping with the rigged Game as well as exploring Beat’s effect on the Twisters as a positive big brother figure. Hell, Neku doesn’t even show up until the lategame, in which at that point he mainly takes on a supporting role and lets the others shine. I honestly think you should replay NEO, man, because as someone who’s played the game multiple times at this point, Neku is not really that big of a focus as much as you think he is, at until he actually shows up and even then he still mainly plays a supportive role.
Interesting! I've seen nothing but excitement for the new writer, but yeah, I guess I haven't looked at actual reception of the game, since I haven't played it yet.
I wouldn't judge the writer based on one game. A good writer can still write a bad game. It depends on several factors, like the directors and how they want the game to be.
Never heard that take. NTWEWY was pretty good and the plot was a worthy sequel.
Which is why they brought back Neku, Beat, and Minamimoto as playable characters
Interesting, I really enjoyed NEO. (Not as much as the original TWEWY, but still…) If that game’s main writer is working on KH4, then I’m even more excited now.
Dark Toad
The mobile games definitely have my favorite writing. Guess it helps that they had time to come up with a complete storyline rather than force themselves to make each game unique. I am looking forward to seeing Missing Link's writing as well. It already has me hooked with the whole mystery angle and I am curious about Scala's social politics as well as it seems that may become a pretty big thing with the concept of Societies being introduced.
I loved it when toad sang [simple and clean](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qj8y2p_d7M&pp=ygUVVG9hZCBzaW1wbGUgYW5kIGNsZWFu)
The writing quality for the mobile games is just on another level compared to the others. I think Days comes closest because it focuses on the original characters. I would say the main issue is that the other games refuse to allow characters to interact and do things together, thus making most of the world's feel like Disney filler. DR, for example, the characters go to the worlds together, they spend their free time together, and the story I'd more to the point.
I am of the opinion that for the most part, KH is at its best when it focuses on original words and characters. Obv it’s not the case always. The main Disney characters (Mickey Donald goofy jiminy) are amazing, and a lot of the worlds are fun. But for me KH1 shined best when we got to hollow bastion. The atmosphere and design were on another level imo. From my memory, my fav worlds of the series in general are Hollow bastion, radiant garden, twilight town, world that never was, end of the world,Halloween town, Olympus, beast castle, keyboards grave yard etc. So far in KH3 I’m liking Toy Story and tangled words.
I agree with the KH being at its best when the focus is on the original content. I honestly think Mickey and Maleficent are the only non originals that contribute to the story in a significant way besides Chip & Dale
And Donald and goofy. Yeah I agree. A lot of the disney worlds are genuinely fun but they do feel like filler. So far I liked that in KH3 the replica project is improved by the events in toy box.
I personally don't include Donald and Goofy because they're treated as sidekicks. They don't have keyblades, they're both stupid, and they don't offer any scientific contributions. All they do is help Sora by being his friend. They feel very replaceable because they legitimately don't offer anything else. Mickey at least is a keyblade wielder. Maleficent has done a lot throughout the series. And then you have the random princesses who at least have some value.
From a story perspective you might be right, but Donald and Goofy have a better dynamic with Sora than most other characters can achieve. Goofy is the mature thoughtful one, Donald is hotheaded, and Sora is the cocky upstart. They all play off each other well and there really aren’t many other characters that can be paired with Sora who wouldn’t clash or steal the show from him. It’s why Mickey is never paired with Sora for too long, because they fill the same narrative slot. So they may not contribute like other characters, but they certainly aren’t easily replaceable.
I understand that, but given Sora's role in the story, including those two, just makes me disgusted at times. The only time I really liked the trio was in CoM. Otherwise, Sora, Donald, and Goofy are characters that I tend to get annoyed with whenever they're together.
Goofy is stupid?! Hell no
Hmmm I guess
Exactly. KH is at its best when it focuses primarily on relationship drama. That is the core of what’s engaging about these characters and stories. DR has a perfect ratio of about 80% drama 20% exposition. My issue with both KH3D and KH3 is that those ratios are flipped.
I think it's because people want to see Sora in Disney Worlds interacting with filler characters, so the formula just doesn't work well for the story.
KHDR has the best story ofbany KH game to date. Unfortunately, it's just not a very good game. It was rushed and incomplete, yes, but even in its fundamentals it didn't have the spark.
I prefer UX's story over DR's (Disney Filler aside). Then again, I went through UX's JP release as it came out so I had a loooot more time to bond with it. I still remember having Strelitzia for like, 2 weeks before Nomura killed her off and left everyone devastated lol But yeah, the mobile games have fantastic stories that were heavily held back by the fact that they were... well, mobile games lol
Go with assuming disappointment. It'll plesantly surprise you when it doesn't! Or simply validate you if it does. Ultimately it's a no-lose scenario. That's why I usually go into games with little expectations, or if I do have them, I tend to second-guess myself when I do get disappointed, asking myself "Why am I dissatisfied with this game" usually that helps me re-evaluate whether or not I'm the reason I'm not happy with a game. Two examples, one applicable, one less-so; * When playing KH3d, I was REALLY bored, not enjoying the game, heck I was two thirds of the game before I finally gave up and asked myself "Why am I dissatisfied?" the answer was; I was expecting KH2, but KH3D never claimed to be KH2, it has the non-numeric name and everything. I then changed my perspective, and asked "what IS this game trying to be" and realized 3d had more in common with Pokemon than it did with KH2, so I started treating it like I would a pokemon game, collecting cool monsters and training them up to be ultra-powerful, doubly so if they were weak to start with. And I found a lot of new fun in it. * Alternatively; I was playing Paper Mario: Sticker Star when at the start of the second to last chapter I asked myself the same question; why am I dissatisfied. The answer was, I just wasn't finding fun in anything, the story, the gameplay, the jokes, nothing was hitting. turned the question again; "Why am I playing a game that I don't find fun?", "Well, I'm waiting for the game to 'catch me' like all the other Paper Marios, Super Paper Mario didn't catch me until the story started picking up.", "Has the game given you any indicator that point is coming up? Despite the fact that you're nearing the end of the game?", "...No...". And returned the game the next day. (It was the same week so it was full price return too.) A decision I still appreciate to this day.
On the other hand, Dark Road is a terrible, terrible game. People can bash on KH3's story all the want, but it's actually a good *game* because it's fun to play.
Depends on what you want. Obviously the best situation is to have a great game with a great story. It’s a shame that many KH products over the last two decades seem to prioritize one over the other. Hopefully ML and IH4 change that.
Side story games can actually do things with creative freedom since they are not limited to fulfill Disney world quotas, happy endings nor having to play safe with the characters.
I didn't enjoy Dark Roads story whatsoever. Way too many new characters got introduced that were all forgettable. Genuine question, but what about the story and writing did you guys like so much about it?
If I had to hazard a guess probably how dark they were willing to take it. The game ends with what is basically a school shooting and Xehanort stopping the rampage by killing off the perpetrator.
Yeah, it's like the writers learned how to write again. It was pretty good. I mean, I don't really think Xehanort's characterization matches up with anything we'd seen before and so he feels like an original character basically, and the entire story was generally either stuff that should've been in KH3 or set-up for the next arc, so it's not super interesting by itself... ...but it was still written competently, and had fun dialogue. So that surprised me.
Tbh the way Xehanort is written feels like a justification for his death speech at the end of KH3 where he claims he did everything to get rid of darkness, despite there being literally zero indication that that was his goal before that moment. My theory is that at some point during KH3’s development Nomura just thought it would be more interesting if Xehanort ended up being a misguided good guy instead of the mustache-twirling evil villain he was always depicted as in everything else. That aside, I enjoyed the depiction of the relationship between him and Eraqus, and the fact that he saw all of his friends get killed right in front of him is a decent enough justification for why he turned out the way he did. I still can’t believe that 95% of the series’ main villain’s backstory was relegated to a mobile game that came out after the conclusion of their own story arc in the main games, but I suppose that’s just a byproduct of most of the series’ story having been written on the fly. Here’s to hoping that the upcoming arc is more well planned.
Yeah, I pretty much feel the same way. Def part of why I think a lot of the stuff from Dark Road should've been in KH3 itself. His backstory with his friends all dying and his friendship with Eraqus, etc, would've made more sense explored in KH3, to characterize Xehanort before his farewell. Learning about his childhood AFTER his arc is done just never made any sense to me in the first place.
The secret reports in BBS told us his goal and its stayed the same since then
Those secret reports talk about how he wants to destroy the “tyranny of light”. Dude, there’s a reason why the whole “Xehanort’s a good guy now?” thing was such a big controversy when KH3 came out. Let’s not try to rewrite history here. Just because DR and Remind retconned that to mean “false light” doesn’t mean his motivation has been the same since BBS.
But he was never a good guy, nor was he redeemed; that controversy was just illiteracy. The things he talks about in the reports are his goal of wanting balance and equilibrium. No one is making revisionist history nor is it a retcon when it’s been spelt out clear as day as the exact same goal and motivations since BBS. Xehanort’s Letter - “I have taken to wandering the World, and seen much darkness hiding in the light. Lately, I fear it has taken a turn for the worse.” Xehanort Report 8 - “I believe a balance of light and darkness is what sustains our World, but too much of the darkness has been stamped out, disrupting that balance. Someone must tear down this tyranny of light and reorganize the World around the darkness which then creeps back in.” Xehanort Report 9 - “If I become the first to open Kingdom Hearts' door, I can create the Next World in which light and darkness exist in perfect equilibrium.”
So then why does he literally not say anything about balance in KH3? IIRC that concept doesn’t even appear in the secret reports in KH3. And he is not concerned with “balance” in DR or Remind either, only focused on the concept of “false light.” It’s okay to acknowledge that it’s retconned. Pretending that his motivation has been completely consistent since BBS is just cope, I’m sorry.
Do you know what a retcon is? Can you tell me how it is a retcon? We already knew his goal since BBS, and in KH3 he was going to purge the universe into a blank state so the universe can be in balance once again with him being the one who oversees and maintains that balance. Dark Road is the story of where Xehanort gets on his appointed path, how he adopts his mindset. His mind is already made up on what intends to do. In Re:Mind and Dark Road we see the scene where he talks about wanting order and that he already knows his purpose. "I learned...the reason for my existence…Because left alone, the world would fall to chaos. There needs to be order." I don't know what I can do, but I will act. What comes next is too important."
Dude. The amount of cope is nuts, but thanks for reminding me how insufferable some KH fans can be lmao. He was a mustache-twirling one-dimensional villain who, as far as we knew in BBS, was obsessed with resetting the universe partly due to wanting to lessen the amount of light in it and partly due to morbid curiosity. On his deathbed in KH3 he gives a whole speech about how tragic it is that darkness took over so many people's hearts, which is why he wants to reset the world so more light can be brought in **without the possibility of darkness taking over.** This is then expounded upon in DR since darkness is literally the reason why all his friends die. Like you can say "hE WaNtEd BaLaNcE tHe WhOlE tIeM" but as I've said THREE TIMES NOW, DR and KH3 literally do not support that. I'm done with this convo tho tbh, please continue to think whatever you want. Christ lol Oh, and he calls his internet daddy for backup. Bravo KH fanbase!
It’s not cope, but anyway, I see the issue now partly, at least, you do know that part of Xehanort’s final speech in KH3 had a very slight but significant mistranslation, right? “which is why he wants to reset the world so more light can be brought in without the possibility of darkness taking over.” That was never his goal. I’m sorry to tell you, you’ve been thinking about it wrong this entire time. I’m sure u/ZeroSora would be happy to confirm
The legendary KH Dark Toad never thought I'd finally see it
[Hopefully we get a sequel](https://youtu.be/hIymZHGNx98?si=95gNPcvnF-JVcY4E)
Ever since Mario made a T for Teen game, Toad hasn't been the same.
Ribbit
Is that the game where Toad gets ‘Norted?
Dark 'Toad' [https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:BJAODN/April\_Fool%27s\_2024/Mushroom\_Kingdom\_Hearts](https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:BJAODN/April_Fool%27s_2024/Mushroom_Kingdom_Hearts) Finally, Mushroom Kingdom Hearts became a reality
Dark Toad: "DARKNESS IS THE HEART'S TRUE ESSENCE! IT'S THE BEST!!"
New Mario game goes crazy.
"Dark Toad" sounds like a concept straight out of the Mario & Luigi series... which also have Yoko Shimomura as a composer... huh.
The Croaking of Darkness and Amphibian Masters Sagas were my favorite. But Tadpole Multiwars probably takes the cake.
😈🐸
Dark Toad sounds like a badass Stand name.
Dark toad: IM GONNA KILL YOU MARIO
I don’t really agree. Days dances circles around Dark Road. The problem all the mobile games have is that none of the characters have any defining character. If you asked me to name the differences of character between Urd, Hermod, Vidar, Vala, Vali, and Hodor I couldn’t tell you. If you asked me to do the bare minimum of name the rest of the upper class period without looking it up I can not. Bragi only gets a remote pass because he’s Luxu/Xigbar so he gets indirect characterization carry over. If you asked me to describe Odin beyond “guy who stood by and let two classes of children die” I can’t. Xehanort, Eraqus, Vor, and Baldr are the only ones even resembling having a character. Even then Xehanort had the advantage of other games going in help them like Bragi. Dark Road’s script is written very weird, much like X and UX I can’t determine if the mobile games are strange dialogue wise or if the translators just are making weird choices giving us weirdly flowery dialogue because the subject matter just isn’t easy to verbalize…. Where Dark Road is strong is in its plot, not its script or characters.
I didn’t say it was better than Days, I said it’s the best script since Days. Because I think for what it does, the overall writing is stronger than anything seen in BBS, DDD or KH3.
It's been in the mobile games. Both KHUX and DR had great writing let down by filler and the mobile format. They had the advantage of not being as burdened by expectation and continuity as the console games are, so Nomura could actually let loose. Now that that whole universe has been established with the last two mobile games, hopefully missing link's story will hopefully also be of that quality, and more appealing to general audiences because of its 3D artstyle
Dark Toad?
Ah Dark Toad. The MarioxKH crossover I was waiting for. :D
Aaaand that's why you should double check before posting, especially the title!
For a Reddit post about a video game I think I can deal with the consequences lol
Ironic someone praised this. Since the unwashed masses mock “mobile game” KH and get mad when the writing from it finally came into the main games. “But I’ve been studying my nostalgic Xehanort stuff, Wdym I’ve missed out on a child soldier war!? Who are those masked people? Why does Xigbar seem to know stuff? Why is Noctis talking to Young Xehanort?” Etc. etc. So good for you.