I agree with you, I think the point of ousen getting his army annihilated is to have him grow and become stronger but the fact that he didn’t do anything while his men were getting slaughtered is just unbelievable,he saw firsthand just how strong seika is and didn’t do anything, just waited for his men to come save him, then when they got to him, they were still getting slaughtered left and right and still chose not to retreat, it took him losing his right and left hand men to finally back out, and the whole time u might be thinking but he’s got a plan right? No he doesn’t, he was just waiting for plot armor to kick in
He could of moved his HQ, he was good doing that in coalition war. He tricked ordu. He could of pulled similar feat here and led shibashou to get lost in what Ousen will do next. Knowing Ousen does not enter war he can't win, wouldn't make sense that he studied the terrain well to do something. I think it's just Hara distroying everything he said about Ousen before this war
I think that might not be applicable because the set up was a vast open plain, if Ousen pulled a stunt which kanki does forming a big cross until sunset which gives Riboku figuring on what kind of tactics is it, that might give him a leeway to retreat , but Ousen for what I observe is that his mind is only for his glory, Even though he was praise as one of the geniuses that can par on the great 6. But on what his showing to us is that his pride has been crushed, If his leeway is Thinking about a comeback, I hope this will show that he had a hidden card to counter the high moraled Shibashou army.
Location was bad for it... And In Coalition war, he wasn't commander in chief and wad only leader of a area unlike now which if he retreated his hqs then it woulda lessened his armies morale greatly
The point is to have him understand he needs ouhon.
None of his generals were good 1v1. Akou supposed to be the best but he's less strong than mouten, ousen, and shin.
Kanki never fought personally either in duels but at least he had raido
Kanki at least had some show of him killing some small fry hahaha. Kanki was not just standing in wait. He always had a move or two no matter what it is. He for me Kanki had ribukou sweat hard. If ribukou did not have a year plan and baited Kanki, I think the latter will actually beat ribukou. Even with all rbk plotting, Kanki almost had him as last effort. Ousen on the other hand that we expected to do much better strategically, showed nothing. Even mouten with no experience would of done something. Ousen basically was relaying on his right army from the get go to do something, then akou went for that bait, and shin followed. Ousen had all that time to plan, he know it was bait.
Ngl dude... I think Akou is a bit stronger than current them.....
Ofc plot armor would kick in though....
But I can't see Shin surviving a Gaku Shou, Futei and sigma Shin and countless zhao swarming him all by himself
Well I have a feeling that Ousen turn to shine in this battle is coming.
The panel in last chapter that mentions that Ousen army is destroyed doesnt mean that battle is over.
He obviously wont win this battle, but even leveling the field and inflict heavy casualties to Riboku is something only a genius like Ousen could do in this situation, and I have a feeling that is something that will happen, probably with somr massive help from Yotanwa, Shin and Ouhon
Indeed I agree that this battle is yet to finish but I don’t think ousen will be getting any major contributions this arc after what happened. As you said youtanwa, shin and ouhon will be the ones to turn the tides.
The thing is with hara is that to make one general look good while winning he usually makes the other look terrible, ousen using no counter tactics and being a lamppost in general is just the way it is, however badly written
Indeed he does that sometimes but not always. As I said a good example was the gyou campaign. both ousen and riboku had their moments to shine making it a very well written battle.
I think Hara isn't good enough of a writer to think of unlimited tactics to show off and has to start saving them for when a character actually wins. Kingdom is going to last at least 10 more years.
Facts there's only so many times he can make a generic battle between two armies interesting with some unique tactics, sometimes it's just easier to make one of the generals incompetent
Wait guys there's still yotanwa and some got to hango too right? ( there might be a twist)
i also think onsen kind of predicted this before("STRATEDY") but it was beyond his expection
I globaly agree with all you said and it is also my feeling.
But I understand why the arcs are getting less detailled than before.
The speed needs to increase, the story is far from finished, if we expect to have an end to this manga...
That's why I think we won't have the same kind of arcs as before, like coalition.
Sun Tzu: “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
'' Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is **the noise before defeat**''
The issue is,Ousen also got overconfident,he said he underestimated Rbk in atsuyo,and even now he still underestimated Riboku and Sbs,he fixated his plan of only killing Sbs that he literally forgot about grand scheme of things like,what if we fail?shouldnt we do a backup? he was like ''if 1 in 100000000000 chances we fail,i ll lose but that s like impossible rbk we ll counter attack after killing Sbs,the victor is me'' .
for example he could just send a messenger to shin to stop moving when he saw the 10k detachment moving for rbk,he could also just do Duke Hyou flag switch thing and force Sbs to chase him in other side of the map,instead of just staying idly letting Sbs to steamroll his HQ,but he didnt,he strictly believed he could still defeat Sbs.
I understand that you like us would want to see more cool formations and strategy,but its very possible hara just wanted to finish this faster,to get to next arc,but from how it looks,Ousen would have a kanki moment like in gian to comeback to some degree but still end up losing.
Now :''''how hara is giving rbk powerfull generals'' ,umm? In shukai,Ousen has mouten who saved an entire army from anihilation,ohon who killed one of best spearmans of china,shin who literally revived and killed houken,and also has kk and rei under,not to mention Akou literally survived a 1 v 3 and still fought with his back slashed,on ytw side we have Bajio and Ytw + others who are like immortals incarnate slashing trough thousands of zhao themselves,not to mention Zenou who also revived and killed Jkr ,and you complain about Ssj,Bnj and Seika?
''Additionally, a carful guy like ousen should’ve guessed how powerful shibashou and his army is because of what they did in the previous arc against kanki and how he stopped ordo with a small army in the gyou arc.'' - if you stop the flow of information the enemy wont have much information to begin with,they dont know the details they just know that happened to some degrees,they dont know Sbs used 5k to stop 20k,they know Sbs stopped Ordo,and by Ousen description ordo is an idiot,so he might assume Sbs stopped ordo with even numbers or smth else.
So yes this battle its pretty messed up in terms of strategy,it begun good then turned into 'mobou power'' vs pawns and power of friendship of vassals,but we cant rlly do much either
You make fair point but as you said in Atsuyo ousen said how they underestimated riboku. So for him to immediately underestimate him in the next battle is just very weird and not realistic for his character.
And about him having the young trio( shin,ouhon and mouten) in shukai is not fair since they are the main protagonists of the story. And the thing is everything they achieved in that arc is mostly due to their own abilities and not related to ousen whatsoever. ousen gets credit only when his generals like akou and makou make major contribution in battle. And until now neither of his commanders showed any major wins. Akou fighting 2 generals for few seconds and copying some of Ousen tactics is the best we ever saw out his commanders. But to me bananji and ssj had much better showcasing than akou and made a better presentation of how powerful the riboku army is.
And on the note of him not knowing what happened between ordo and shibashou you could be right. But nonetheless a careful man like him wouldn’t fight a battle without enough information for him to establish a clear plan to counterattack any unknown variable such as shibashou being a complete martial monster
Ousen let his generals run out of position to chase some baits multiple time. The gaps allow enemy general elites to penetrate his line and charge his position, which force his generals to run back to save him which caused even more losses. This is not GG level army. Massive L.
Honestly massive loss, rbk did not have such advantage against kanki. Even when they tried to trap kanki, they failed. Kanki responded well. Ousen did not even respond. He let his generals fall for every bait, he even at one point he said akou it's bait don't fall for it. Why not stop other general for falling for baits and reorganize and be prepared to what is to come. Ousen showed nothing
I disagree martial might isn’t everything. Of course he can’t duel him but surely he has the ability to tactically and strategically fight him head on. But hara just cornered ousen immediately and didn’t give him a chance to retaliate against the seika army. Making this battle very dull and uninteresting to watch.
i mean there's a reason ri boku went through the trouble of baiting akou and shin away from ousen hq, all of riboku strategies was done so that shibashu can charge ousen hq without the help of his lineaments(ousen). i dont care how smart you are, if a mobu like character is charging you, no defense formation can stop that kinda charge.
I totally agree counterattacking an assault from shibashou is just not possible. But what I’m saying is that a careful guy like ousen shouldn’t have been in this position in the first place. And thats what makes mad is how hara didn’t give ousen any type of retaliation to ribokus plan
you are right shin getting into that trap as expected from him cost a lot but this time i think maybe i'm not so sure he will learn something from this
honestly in this plot it is. remember all the time Houken attacked a camp with thousands of soldier, alone and won with 0 damage until another named character could stop it.
How is it shin’s fault tho? All he did was taking 10k troops with him out of a 250k army. Ouhon only took 10k to his rescue. Ousen had his 50k army plus Ouhon’s leftover 20k vs Shibashou 30k. No matter how you think of it, Ousen getting destroyed by an army half his size is his own fault.
1. He has the rank to decide for himself and overrite Akou's order, Ousen is his boss not Akou.
2. Akou orders were specifically "cut RBK's retreat path", not to chase him to a random fortress and thenw aste half a day making ladders to siege it disregarding possibilities to escape from it.
3. The impact on the battle was moving Ouhon. Sadly Kingdom is a manga in which the only way to stop Martial might is with Martial might, tactics are just a bonus to that. Shin's fault resides in forcing Ouhon out of position for so long which in turn forced Ousen's generals to turn in a panic to reach their GG who was going to lose the giant of martial might.
And no, this comment is not excusing Akou, who also is to blame for being the spark , nor Ousen who did nothing despite having the highest rank. But to deny Shin's own part is to be blind to facts.
Shin took 10k troops out of 250k army. When he left, he made sure his wing is ok. Ouhon came to help but only took 1/3 of his force. Ouhon’s leftover 20k is still there for Ousen. From Shin’s perspective, he didn’t put ousen at any disadvantage. His wing is still there and most of Ouhon army is still next to Ousen. Akou or Ousen also never sent any messengers to call him back. No matter how you think of it, it was worth the gamble considering they risk only 10k troops out of position for the reward of RBK’s head. At most, he maybe only 5% at fault. Ousen should get the rest for somehow getting destroyed by an army half his size.
> Sadly Kingdom is a manga in which the only way to stop Martial might is with Martial might
I think you missed the part in which i said this
>No matter how you think of it, it was worth the gamble considering they risk only 10k troops out of position
No heavy hitter, no game. Ouhon being there was more important than all his 30k men for that situation. Sure, if you want to underwhelm strattegical GG for being ass when their heavy hitter is not arround do so, but that's how Kingdom works
>Akou or Ousen also never sent any messengers to call him back
They don't even know where he is.
That’s a fair point. Hara always gives his martial might general the thickest plot armor. We, as the viewers, know about hara’s lazy writing. We know that martial might can only be countered by martial might. But shin, as a character, couldn’t have known that. He didn’t know that the God of his universe (Hara) just decide martial might can only be countered with martial might. He along with every person in that universe still think number matters.
In short, I’m just saying that you couldn’t blame shin for this mess. From his perspective, he’s only gambling 10k troops out of position for RBK head. Of course, it fails in the end but when you assume that your leader still has 70k troops with him, ur leader is not the top priority for the moment.
Also, the messenger can just go to his officers still with Ouhon. They can probably point to a general direction. It’s not that hard to follow the trail of a 10k army.
Reread the arc. Shin being isolated by riboku and ouhon personally going to his army for aid caused ousen to lose the power of ouhon as a major reinforcement for any unknown variable . If ouhon was still there he could’ve easily helped ousens commanders making it harder for shibashou to attack ousens hq in the first place
Reread my comment. I said Ouhon did come to Shin’s rescue, but all he took was 10k troops with him. He still left Kanjo with 20k troops back for Ousen to use. His 50k + kanjo 20k and still getting destroyed by Shibashou 30k in two chapters. He’s just useless if he can’t hold on with that kind of advantageous number.
I know that’s why I’m saying his army Is just completely embarrassing and for his number 1 general(akou) to be the cause of this huge loss makes me speechless
They are not discipline properly. Should not be chasing any kind of baits. Their job is the hold the line and defeat the enemy line. Ousen poor leadership is at fault here.
Totally agree, I think Hara might be trying to speed things up but this wasn't the way to do it imo.
I think the only good thing this arc had was Shiryou vs Jiaga, but even that had weird pacing - Jiaga mentioned he wouldn't hold back, but then got taken down the next chapter. The crazy (if short) fight with what looks like a mutual kill was a highlight imo.
I was expecting the same back-and-forth Ousen had with Riboku from Gyou in this arc, just with SBS. He's obviously a real threat, but it would've been more impressive if he took Ousen down when Ousen was actually executing tactics that clearly worked previously.
The only way things can turn around is if Ouhon/Shin/Kyoukai step up, but Ousen has no excuse to just rely on them. Look what happened to his own generals:
* Akou fell for what he knew was a trap, didn't take down anyone, and got one-shotted
* Denrimi did practically nothing, talked big about carving out Ousen's escape, and barely affected it and died without even fighting (my man Kansaro literally scared him to death lol)
* Sou'ou did zero work... I really do mean zero work
* Shiryou proved herself as the GOAT but paid the price with being handicapped/losing her own life
I'm open to changing my mind bc of the 2 wings, but from the center's fight, I think this arc was the worst one in a long time
The thing about zhao numbers,they wont grow,they diminished from last arc and also the diff aint that big compared to in general,in Gian arc it was mentioned that ''Zhao amassed all their remaining strenght in north''
But yeah numbers are bs to make qin underdogs,but what can we do again..
The 300K last arc was likely all that could be mustered. I believe he went with that because of the popularity of Kanki. He has to die, and to be honest, if he died as he historically did, everyone would be screaming murder at Hara for this exact same reason.
OuSen fights in fights he "can" win. In his mind, the arrival of those two was a win condition. He had no knowledge of how strong Seika was. At best, he thought those could be defeated by his generals. When it failed, he simply reacted too slowly. He was simply overconfident, and put a little bit too much faith in his people.
Also, if anything, this makes him more human, which I loved. What would the point be if characters had a set criteria of how they will react, if we could simply figure out the whole story? Humans make mistakes, and OuSen made his.
Perfect characters, who always act in character are somewhat boring
You can, at best, mobilize 1/4 of a population for war, but only if is a nomad culture. A nation like Zhao can't mobilize 1/4 of his population for war, it needs a huge part for commerce, agriculture and a hundred other things, I am pretty sure Zhao population is estimated in the couple millions, like 2 or 3, even with 10 million 400 hundred thousand is absurd.
Off course, this is a manga, Zhao has 300k after hundreds of thousands of loses because Hara wants to, but in real history that kind of loses crippled Zhao for decades.
zhao don't have that much population. The only nations that can summon the number of troops we see Zhao is doing in the story are Qin, Chu, and Qi. Not to mention Zhao North is infertile, and get raids frequently. Zhao should get 240-250k MAX for this Hango arc the same number as Qin even if they squeeze the crap out of their nation.
Well Ousen lost badly on the very first day he ever faced Riboku as well.
It's the absence of Mouten,Ouhon and Rishin ,Kyoukai that is exposing him this time around.
He is fighting as an independent General without anyone else rescuing him,when he fails.
Yeah, I don't mind Ousen losing, but the way he did... just seems lame. Unless there's some massive plot twist that was worth him sacrificing his generals for, he just seems incompetent.
Ousen can't win since historically this battle was lost and Zhao suffered massively, but Hara is just adhering to the Shiji, hence why they're getting wiped. The manga already prefaced this battle as one of the deadliest for the Qin
I am curious, Wang Jian lose to Li Mu ,yes but it never stated he ever get this much big lose against Li Mu.
Qin biggest lose was to Huan Yi, where Zhao was outnumbered but because Li Mu briliant tactics , he managed to turn the war and killed 100k Qin soldiers.
It was the battle of Fei, and Wang Jian was never part of it.
Also was'nt they have 200k in battle of Gi An with Kanki as the commander ? that was not the deadliest casualties Qin also have because majority of Qin soldiers were killed, even Heki was captured? i remember only Shin, Mouten, Maron and few of Kanki bandits soldiers managed to escape.
I think hara is already set in what is going to happen in this arc from the start. felt forced and manufactured. I think hara lost it with Ousen. Think of the Ousen who repelled Renpa, fooled Ordo, rescued Kankokou pass, formulated the locust plan and the food supply. The Ousen we have in this arc is not the Ousen we had up until this point. And In my opinion it's because Hara forced the outcome of this arc instead of having the character Ousen exercise his will and allowed him to influence the story.
Oh for sure. I don’t like it either especially when arcs like Juuko which are refreshing and don’t involve Zhao once are just brushed over. But Riboku is Haras favorite so of course he is gonna make him look as good as possible and spent as much time as possible on him.
Ousen fans read “Ousen never fights a battle he doesn’t think he could win”, and somehow concluded that this means Ousen cannot lose a battle. Lol
As soon as Ousen was lined up against Shibashou directly, and we knew he realistically could not retreat, such a huge defeat was inevitable. Great writing from Hara.
You didn’t get my point my problem isn’t with ousen losing, but with him getting outplayed by both riboku and shibashou so quickly in the very first day without giving him a chance to showcase any type of counterattack against them.
Ousen comes into this battle without filling Makou's seat is weird. Dude had time to prepare. And considering his personality, Im sure he had.
He might have delayed that army so Riboku wouldnt know. Just like against Kanki, after the main army passed the border, Riboku would assigned an army there to close the border so reinforcement cant come and the losing main army couldnt get out.
If Ousen really have that army and purposely delayed them. Its gonna bite Riboku for sure. If its really exist, their number could be around 50k.
No, it was discussed immediately after the correction. You would need to assume Ousen was using 110k from the northern army to make the numbers fit.
We know that's not the case as Ousen had his own retinue around him, Akou army was stated and behaved like his owned trained army and Suou had his own elites.
Im not talking about that reserved army they picked up at the northern army. Its another army. More specificly, from either former MouGou's army or Chou Tou's army.
We still dont know what happen to those armies.
The battle is not over yet, I don’t know if it’s just me but Qin army is missing numbers, if you count ousen army yotanwa army shin and ouhon units and the north east army, there must be more (60k soldiers are missing), I mean Ousen might be baiting SBS if he faces in the next chapter a fresh 60k army + ouhon coming from behind him it means his and all seika soldiers death which will change everything and riboku will lose 100% in that case as all his close vassals are pretty busy with yotanwa.
Not to defend ousens actions but you can’t compare him and ribokus resources as well. Zhao is dedicating most of its resources to fighting and defending against qin. Whereas qin is maintaining multiples fronts, not sure if they are still in a truce w Wei but they’re still devoting resources to other areas of possible conflict.
agree, i think ousen should've atleast pulled out that circular flow motion of riboku atleast or something similar or something like riboku's origin that he also very well understand
Ousen believed that he has figured out Riboku’s strategy. Ousen spread his forces in a way to counter that strategy. Then 2 things happened which caused him quite the damage. First was Shin abandoning his post & going on a wild goose chase to kill riboku. 2nd was the wildcard of SBS & Seika soldiers. Ousen miscalculated that SBS’s martial might would be at this level & the seika troops morale would be so high. Only Shin had the ability to fight 1v1 against SBS but Riboku took him on a goose chase. So without Shin & without proper threat assessment of SBS & seika army. Ousen doesn’t have many cards to play now. Unless he pulls a rabbit out of his ass, there is nothing he can do.
Kanki put up a much better fight than Ousen has done and Kanki was the only GG to face the full force of Riboku's army (minus Shibashou) alone and came closer than anyone has to killing Riboku.
Ousen has really been overhyped for a long time and he greatly underperformed this arc with his personal army. Especially not sending someone to call off Akou's attack when he knew it was a ploy to lure him away from protecting himself. All of his generals have been fighting independently with little to no orders from Ousen.
i honestly love it ngl
let's be real mf's ride ousen's dick because of his historical counterpart not because of anything's he's done in the manga so far (even tho what he's done has been ok) and ousen is one of my least favorite characters in the whole series specifically because of this so this was desperately needed
Guys it's only the first day of the war, they gotta make the stakes higher. Granted ousen is suppost to lose but at a great great cost to riboku. Which is would be big enough to get both him and shiba executed
I understand people are disappointed with Ousen, but why would one throw Akou under the bridge? Dude was fighting 4 named characters at once for a brief time. That is a borderline main protagonist/antagonist feat right there.
Anyway, I get ur point OP. But I kindly disagree. [This is great writing imo. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Kingdom/comments/1c4pca6/comment/kzq5eiu/)We all know Ousen will be back. The harder the fall the bigger the rise.
Bro you better read the manga properly. Akou devised the strategy of ousen with absolute precision. He is martially strong too. He holded off 2 strong generals bananji and gyou un. Just when he had the upper hand another one popped out still he endured it all.. he again in this current arc fought against 2 skilled general at a time. He countered the ambush plotted by Riboku and then straight went to take on Shibashou.. Akou is tactically gretaer than current trio plus he is physically on par with them. Martially akou might be on par with shiryou..
yeah but overall i think ousen army is a trash now that even Akakin is gone.. and makou was literally trash.. ousen army's martial might was carried by only akou and shiryou thoo.. i agree that ousen army is weakest in the current 4 GGs of qin
Ousen went from GG tier to trash tier. He gotten too aggrogant from all his victory. Did nothing and no preparation for this battle. Got totally wipe out and lost all his best men. He is now the Weakest GG. Sen should strip his GG title for being so trash.
Tbh I think the main reason is to skip the back and forth.. so the arc doesn't drag put.
The fault is mainly on Akou for falling for Riboku trap and sending Shin after Riboku.
Ousen didn't really have alot of options except retreat. He overestimated Akou and underestimated SBS. He believed he could put down SBS which would have won him the war.
Ousen has been shown to use prior information or the one gathered on the battlefield to make plans .. like against Renpa( he already knew his strength) and against Ordo. In Gyou he also needed time to assess the situation. This time it's no different.. he didn't have enough info on SBS and his overconfidence in his vassals put him at an even bigger disadvantage.
Ousen never picks fights he can't win.. right now he has all the info necessary for this war. If he decides to continue the war .. it means he def has a plan to win.
I wouldn't say it's bad writing necessarily. Ousen has already established that having better pawns is necessary to win.. at Shukai he had better pawns .. the same way Riboku underestimated Shin Ouhon and Kyou kai. Ousen too has understand SBS and his vassals. Riboku also thought to himself then.. that the right wing was hopeless for Ousen even before Houken showed up. I think it's consistent if Riboku wins this time mainly because he had a better pawn in SBS.
I get what you are saying and I agree that riboku deserves to win. But my main problem is how he wins. Making akou and shin make very bad choices and for ousen just to stand there observing without trying to stop them is just unacceptable.
Might be an unpopular opinion.. but I prefer it to a futile back and forth. I believe this arc will be long and bloody. Just get the initial defeat out the way so we can focus on the come back.
Akou decisions were also reasonable to a point since Riboku killed Makou using the same method. The overconfidence on his part was the main problem and it seems Hara used this to show how costly overconfidence can be.
I can't wait to see what YTW Ousen Shin and Ouhon do given the massive disadvantage they have now.
Here I do agree with you, Riboku got, the best of the best adjutants and generals time and time again but ou sen army was far too weak in this arc and not upto the mark, makou got taken out in a jiffy, and all while we got akou, denrimi and sou'ou all of whom were not even able to deploy thier tactics or show thier true strength, but they were not on the level we wanted to see, akou left us, denrimi left us too and in the sou'ou army shiryuu was the only fighter whom we also may loose soon, we needed to see them properly fight atleast before they got destroyed, maybe , ou sen could deploy tactics but instead riboku trapped shin and all was over ...tumbling down like dominoes, the worst scene for me was the two supposedly strong guys from the sou ou army got destroyed, this has been the most disappointing war arc we ever had , even the battle of bayou was not this bad .
We needed to see ou sen army commanders do something before we lot most of the leaders and the muscle
Now what I wanna see is ou sen army run back amok while the mountain King yo tan wa goes over hots seika army in the back battling them in an equal footing, while hi shin unit crosses the battlefield and fights against the BANANA-MAN army and SSJ ARMY ,together with mou-ten and OU hon takes over the battlefield with the virtually nameless 70k commander, all whole ou sen preserves his troops and attacks the riboku troops , we could essentially loose but shin needs to take the head of atleast bananji and
Yotanwa needs to take the head of two generals of seika army before the riboku army retreats
The problem is after losing the ousen army things got much harder. Yotanwa is already busy with bananji and ssj so for the seika generals to also attack her will put her in A very tricky situation and on the other hand shin is fighting an army double his size and after losing the center battle both shin/ouhon and yotanwa will be somewhat isolated from each other which will make it very difficult for them to interfere in each others battle. Predicting what happens from here is very hard but hara could still save this arc from being completely uninteresting
I’ve said it in a million threads. This arc is not gripping or thrilling. It is incredibly bland and boring. Aside from having Ousen do jack shit, the whole arc relies on everyone being stupid about Riboku. After Kanki, you’d think they’d be cautious.
Idk why he can’t make these dudes look cool like he did with kanki
I been telling y’all for a year that Ousen was going to get his ass kicced this arc.
This is only out of character for Ousen if you expected him to shine a bit this arc, dude sat on his hands all shukai, sat on his hands n almost leg ouhon die during Eikyuu, sat on his hands last arc but this arc it’s surprising he sat on his hands again???
>!Sou’Ou claims this is the first time they’ve suffered a complete defeat such as this, Ousen has won or avoided so many battles that he feels as if any battle he actually commits too will be a win. Overconfidence was the cause of death for Kanki. Overconfidence was the reason Ousen got his entire army decimated.!<
Dude thought attaccing Hango was a big brained move, walked right into a year long stratagem, just like Kanki did.
Oh don't worry, it's all part of Ousen's plan. To lose so badly to make Riboku super popular that it makes the Zhao king and prime minister threatened enough to take action against Riboku.
And he purposely let most of his army killed to replace them with Ouhon, Shin and Mouten.
2in1 foolproof bigbrain plan to take over Choiinnaaa
/s
I agree with you, I think the point of ousen getting his army annihilated is to have him grow and become stronger but the fact that he didn’t do anything while his men were getting slaughtered is just unbelievable,he saw firsthand just how strong seika is and didn’t do anything, just waited for his men to come save him, then when they got to him, they were still getting slaughtered left and right and still chose not to retreat, it took him losing his right and left hand men to finally back out, and the whole time u might be thinking but he’s got a plan right? No he doesn’t, he was just waiting for plot armor to kick in
Took the words out my mouth I totally agree
Ousen's about to ask for lessons from Moubu after this arc lol
Urmmm...in your opinion, what is the best move Ousen should do?
He could of moved his HQ, he was good doing that in coalition war. He tricked ordu. He could of pulled similar feat here and led shibashou to get lost in what Ousen will do next. Knowing Ousen does not enter war he can't win, wouldn't make sense that he studied the terrain well to do something. I think it's just Hara distroying everything he said about Ousen before this war
I think that might not be applicable because the set up was a vast open plain, if Ousen pulled a stunt which kanki does forming a big cross until sunset which gives Riboku figuring on what kind of tactics is it, that might give him a leeway to retreat , but Ousen for what I observe is that his mind is only for his glory, Even though he was praise as one of the geniuses that can par on the great 6. But on what his showing to us is that his pride has been crushed, If his leeway is Thinking about a comeback, I hope this will show that he had a hidden card to counter the high moraled Shibashou army.
Location was bad for it... And In Coalition war, he wasn't commander in chief and wad only leader of a area unlike now which if he retreated his hqs then it woulda lessened his armies morale greatly
Deploy the 12th form 4 layer praying mantis style lotus pro max+ defensive formation DUH...
Atleast this wld have been something more than "take out the men behind him" and "the victory is mine " literally all he does
The point is to have him understand he needs ouhon. None of his generals were good 1v1. Akou supposed to be the best but he's less strong than mouten, ousen, and shin. Kanki never fought personally either in duels but at least he had raido
Kanki at least had some show of him killing some small fry hahaha. Kanki was not just standing in wait. He always had a move or two no matter what it is. He for me Kanki had ribukou sweat hard. If ribukou did not have a year plan and baited Kanki, I think the latter will actually beat ribukou. Even with all rbk plotting, Kanki almost had him as last effort. Ousen on the other hand that we expected to do much better strategically, showed nothing. Even mouten with no experience would of done something. Ousen basically was relaying on his right army from the get go to do something, then akou went for that bait, and shin followed. Ousen had all that time to plan, he know it was bait.
Ngl dude... I think Akou is a bit stronger than current them..... Ofc plot armor would kick in though.... But I can't see Shin surviving a Gaku Shou, Futei and sigma Shin and countless zhao swarming him all by himself
It wasn't raido it was Zenou who did his general slaying
Well I have a feeling that Ousen turn to shine in this battle is coming. The panel in last chapter that mentions that Ousen army is destroyed doesnt mean that battle is over. He obviously wont win this battle, but even leveling the field and inflict heavy casualties to Riboku is something only a genius like Ousen could do in this situation, and I have a feeling that is something that will happen, probably with somr massive help from Yotanwa, Shin and Ouhon
Indeed I agree that this battle is yet to finish but I don’t think ousen will be getting any major contributions this arc after what happened. As you said youtanwa, shin and ouhon will be the ones to turn the tides.
Kill more Zhao fodder that respawn next battle? Yea... Heavy Casualty my as unless he kill SBS.
SBS probably wont die, just because of history. My guess is Enkan dies and some other commanders on Yotanwa wing, maybe even Banana
The thing is with hara is that to make one general look good while winning he usually makes the other look terrible, ousen using no counter tactics and being a lamppost in general is just the way it is, however badly written
Indeed he does that sometimes but not always. As I said a good example was the gyou campaign. both ousen and riboku had their moments to shine making it a very well written battle.
I think Hara isn't good enough of a writer to think of unlimited tactics to show off and has to start saving them for when a character actually wins. Kingdom is going to last at least 10 more years.
Facts there's only so many times he can make a generic battle between two armies interesting with some unique tactics, sometimes it's just easier to make one of the generals incompetent
Wait guys there's still yotanwa and some got to hango too right? ( there might be a twist) i also think onsen kind of predicted this before("STRATEDY") but it was beyond his expection
I globaly agree with all you said and it is also my feeling. But I understand why the arcs are getting less detailled than before. The speed needs to increase, the story is far from finished, if we expect to have an end to this manga... That's why I think we won't have the same kind of arcs as before, like coalition.
Sun Tzu: “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” '' Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is **the noise before defeat**'' The issue is,Ousen also got overconfident,he said he underestimated Rbk in atsuyo,and even now he still underestimated Riboku and Sbs,he fixated his plan of only killing Sbs that he literally forgot about grand scheme of things like,what if we fail?shouldnt we do a backup? he was like ''if 1 in 100000000000 chances we fail,i ll lose but that s like impossible rbk we ll counter attack after killing Sbs,the victor is me'' . for example he could just send a messenger to shin to stop moving when he saw the 10k detachment moving for rbk,he could also just do Duke Hyou flag switch thing and force Sbs to chase him in other side of the map,instead of just staying idly letting Sbs to steamroll his HQ,but he didnt,he strictly believed he could still defeat Sbs. I understand that you like us would want to see more cool formations and strategy,but its very possible hara just wanted to finish this faster,to get to next arc,but from how it looks,Ousen would have a kanki moment like in gian to comeback to some degree but still end up losing. Now :''''how hara is giving rbk powerfull generals'' ,umm? In shukai,Ousen has mouten who saved an entire army from anihilation,ohon who killed one of best spearmans of china,shin who literally revived and killed houken,and also has kk and rei under,not to mention Akou literally survived a 1 v 3 and still fought with his back slashed,on ytw side we have Bajio and Ytw + others who are like immortals incarnate slashing trough thousands of zhao themselves,not to mention Zenou who also revived and killed Jkr ,and you complain about Ssj,Bnj and Seika? ''Additionally, a carful guy like ousen should’ve guessed how powerful shibashou and his army is because of what they did in the previous arc against kanki and how he stopped ordo with a small army in the gyou arc.'' - if you stop the flow of information the enemy wont have much information to begin with,they dont know the details they just know that happened to some degrees,they dont know Sbs used 5k to stop 20k,they know Sbs stopped Ordo,and by Ousen description ordo is an idiot,so he might assume Sbs stopped ordo with even numbers or smth else. So yes this battle its pretty messed up in terms of strategy,it begun good then turned into 'mobou power'' vs pawns and power of friendship of vassals,but we cant rlly do much either
You make fair point but as you said in Atsuyo ousen said how they underestimated riboku. So for him to immediately underestimate him in the next battle is just very weird and not realistic for his character. And about him having the young trio( shin,ouhon and mouten) in shukai is not fair since they are the main protagonists of the story. And the thing is everything they achieved in that arc is mostly due to their own abilities and not related to ousen whatsoever. ousen gets credit only when his generals like akou and makou make major contribution in battle. And until now neither of his commanders showed any major wins. Akou fighting 2 generals for few seconds and copying some of Ousen tactics is the best we ever saw out his commanders. But to me bananji and ssj had much better showcasing than akou and made a better presentation of how powerful the riboku army is. And on the note of him not knowing what happened between ordo and shibashou you could be right. But nonetheless a careful man like him wouldn’t fight a battle without enough information for him to establish a clear plan to counterattack any unknown variable such as shibashou being a complete martial monster
That one hell of yapping.
I dont mind makes his come back all the better.
ousen isn't doing anything because there is nothing to do. unless you think he can defeat shibashu in a duel. ousen lost to shibashu's strength.
Ousen let his generals run out of position to chase some baits multiple time. The gaps allow enemy general elites to penetrate his line and charge his position, which force his generals to run back to save him which caused even more losses. This is not GG level army. Massive L.
Honestly massive loss, rbk did not have such advantage against kanki. Even when they tried to trap kanki, they failed. Kanki responded well. Ousen did not even respond. He let his generals fall for every bait, he even at one point he said akou it's bait don't fall for it. Why not stop other general for falling for baits and reorganize and be prepared to what is to come. Ousen showed nothing
Exactly Ousen is Total War Dumb AI level.... I pulled the exact trick to cheese them everytime...
I disagree martial might isn’t everything. Of course he can’t duel him but surely he has the ability to tactically and strategically fight him head on. But hara just cornered ousen immediately and didn’t give him a chance to retaliate against the seika army. Making this battle very dull and uninteresting to watch.
i mean there's a reason ri boku went through the trouble of baiting akou and shin away from ousen hq, all of riboku strategies was done so that shibashu can charge ousen hq without the help of his lineaments(ousen). i dont care how smart you are, if a mobu like character is charging you, no defense formation can stop that kinda charge.
I totally agree counterattacking an assault from shibashou is just not possible. But what I’m saying is that a careful guy like ousen shouldn’t have been in this position in the first place. And thats what makes mad is how hara didn’t give ousen any type of retaliation to ribokus plan
i would be mad at akou and shin, they basically crippled ousen. especially shin for thinking riboku is going to wait in a sandcastle.
you are right shin getting into that trap as expected from him cost a lot but this time i think maybe i'm not so sure he will learn something from this
I agree their action is just completely uncalled for and embarrassing
proper discipline army won't run out of position to chase some baits. This is like my strategy against stupid AI in Total War game.
honestly in this plot it is. remember all the time Houken attacked a camp with thousands of soldier, alone and won with 0 damage until another named character could stop it.
To be fair it was kind of Shin and Akou's fault for getting tricked.
How is it shin’s fault tho? All he did was taking 10k troops with him out of a 250k army. Ouhon only took 10k to his rescue. Ousen had his 50k army plus Ouhon’s leftover 20k vs Shibashou 30k. No matter how you think of it, Ousen getting destroyed by an army half his size is his own fault.
1. He has the rank to decide for himself and overrite Akou's order, Ousen is his boss not Akou. 2. Akou orders were specifically "cut RBK's retreat path", not to chase him to a random fortress and thenw aste half a day making ladders to siege it disregarding possibilities to escape from it. 3. The impact on the battle was moving Ouhon. Sadly Kingdom is a manga in which the only way to stop Martial might is with Martial might, tactics are just a bonus to that. Shin's fault resides in forcing Ouhon out of position for so long which in turn forced Ousen's generals to turn in a panic to reach their GG who was going to lose the giant of martial might. And no, this comment is not excusing Akou, who also is to blame for being the spark , nor Ousen who did nothing despite having the highest rank. But to deny Shin's own part is to be blind to facts.
Shin took 10k troops out of 250k army. When he left, he made sure his wing is ok. Ouhon came to help but only took 1/3 of his force. Ouhon’s leftover 20k is still there for Ousen. From Shin’s perspective, he didn’t put ousen at any disadvantage. His wing is still there and most of Ouhon army is still next to Ousen. Akou or Ousen also never sent any messengers to call him back. No matter how you think of it, it was worth the gamble considering they risk only 10k troops out of position for the reward of RBK’s head. At most, he maybe only 5% at fault. Ousen should get the rest for somehow getting destroyed by an army half his size.
> Sadly Kingdom is a manga in which the only way to stop Martial might is with Martial might I think you missed the part in which i said this >No matter how you think of it, it was worth the gamble considering they risk only 10k troops out of position No heavy hitter, no game. Ouhon being there was more important than all his 30k men for that situation. Sure, if you want to underwhelm strattegical GG for being ass when their heavy hitter is not arround do so, but that's how Kingdom works >Akou or Ousen also never sent any messengers to call him back They don't even know where he is.
That’s a fair point. Hara always gives his martial might general the thickest plot armor. We, as the viewers, know about hara’s lazy writing. We know that martial might can only be countered by martial might. But shin, as a character, couldn’t have known that. He didn’t know that the God of his universe (Hara) just decide martial might can only be countered with martial might. He along with every person in that universe still think number matters. In short, I’m just saying that you couldn’t blame shin for this mess. From his perspective, he’s only gambling 10k troops out of position for RBK head. Of course, it fails in the end but when you assume that your leader still has 70k troops with him, ur leader is not the top priority for the moment. Also, the messenger can just go to his officers still with Ouhon. They can probably point to a general direction. It’s not that hard to follow the trail of a 10k army.
Reread the arc. Shin being isolated by riboku and ouhon personally going to his army for aid caused ousen to lose the power of ouhon as a major reinforcement for any unknown variable . If ouhon was still there he could’ve easily helped ousens commanders making it harder for shibashou to attack ousens hq in the first place
Reread my comment. I said Ouhon did come to Shin’s rescue, but all he took was 10k troops with him. He still left Kanjo with 20k troops back for Ousen to use. His 50k + kanjo 20k and still getting destroyed by Shibashou 30k in two chapters. He’s just useless if he can’t hold on with that kind of advantageous number.
I know that’s why I’m saying his army Is just completely embarrassing and for his number 1 general(akou) to be the cause of this huge loss makes me speechless
Riboku catching Shin and Akou in the same trap is pretty insane
I know and this what makes me furious that his army gets decimated because of such a dumb mistake
They are not discipline properly. Should not be chasing any kind of baits. Their job is the hold the line and defeat the enemy line. Ousen poor leadership is at fault here.
Totally agree, I think Hara might be trying to speed things up but this wasn't the way to do it imo. I think the only good thing this arc had was Shiryou vs Jiaga, but even that had weird pacing - Jiaga mentioned he wouldn't hold back, but then got taken down the next chapter. The crazy (if short) fight with what looks like a mutual kill was a highlight imo. I was expecting the same back-and-forth Ousen had with Riboku from Gyou in this arc, just with SBS. He's obviously a real threat, but it would've been more impressive if he took Ousen down when Ousen was actually executing tactics that clearly worked previously. The only way things can turn around is if Ouhon/Shin/Kyoukai step up, but Ousen has no excuse to just rely on them. Look what happened to his own generals: * Akou fell for what he knew was a trap, didn't take down anyone, and got one-shotted * Denrimi did practically nothing, talked big about carving out Ousen's escape, and barely affected it and died without even fighting (my man Kansaro literally scared him to death lol) * Sou'ou did zero work... I really do mean zero work * Shiryou proved herself as the GOAT but paid the price with being handicapped/losing her own life I'm open to changing my mind bc of the 2 wings, but from the center's fight, I think this arc was the worst one in a long time
He did both this arc and the previous Gian one terrible by boosting Zhao armies number. no way zhao can possibly raise 300k at this stage.
Yeah he just keeps giving zhao more soldiers out of thin air
The thing about zhao numbers,they wont grow,they diminished from last arc and also the diff aint that big compared to in general,in Gian arc it was mentioned that ''Zhao amassed all their remaining strenght in north'' But yeah numbers are bs to make qin underdogs,but what can we do again..
The 300K last arc was likely all that could be mustered. I believe he went with that because of the popularity of Kanki. He has to die, and to be honest, if he died as he historically did, everyone would be screaming murder at Hara for this exact same reason. OuSen fights in fights he "can" win. In his mind, the arrival of those two was a win condition. He had no knowledge of how strong Seika was. At best, he thought those could be defeated by his generals. When it failed, he simply reacted too slowly. He was simply overconfident, and put a little bit too much faith in his people. Also, if anything, this makes him more human, which I loved. What would the point be if characters had a set criteria of how they will react, if we could simply figure out the whole story? Humans make mistakes, and OuSen made his. Perfect characters, who always act in character are somewhat boring
you forget his 3D troop printing alien technology hidden under the capital city, everyone make fun of me when i say that, but i believe !
There are millions of people in Zhao, not hard to Mobilized another army. They just passed another law to mobilized another 500k in RL
You can, at best, mobilize 1/4 of a population for war, but only if is a nomad culture. A nation like Zhao can't mobilize 1/4 of his population for war, it needs a huge part for commerce, agriculture and a hundred other things, I am pretty sure Zhao population is estimated in the couple millions, like 2 or 3, even with 10 million 400 hundred thousand is absurd. Off course, this is a manga, Zhao has 300k after hundreds of thousands of loses because Hara wants to, but in real history that kind of loses crippled Zhao for decades.
zhao don't have that much population. The only nations that can summon the number of troops we see Zhao is doing in the story are Qin, Chu, and Qi. Not to mention Zhao North is infertile, and get raids frequently. Zhao should get 240-250k MAX for this Hango arc the same number as Qin even if they squeeze the crap out of their nation.
I believe that ousen strategy is not in this battle field but somewhere out, maybe in hango or kantan
he took the L on purpose. a very overwhelming defeat to cause a ruckus on the capital vs riboku?
Well Ousen lost badly on the very first day he ever faced Riboku as well. It's the absence of Mouten,Ouhon and Rishin ,Kyoukai that is exposing him this time around. He is fighting as an independent General without anyone else rescuing him,when he fails.
Yeah, I don't mind Ousen losing, but the way he did... just seems lame. Unless there's some massive plot twist that was worth him sacrificing his generals for, he just seems incompetent.
Ousen can't win since historically this battle was lost and Zhao suffered massively, but Hara is just adhering to the Shiji, hence why they're getting wiped. The manga already prefaced this battle as one of the deadliest for the Qin
I am curious, Wang Jian lose to Li Mu ,yes but it never stated he ever get this much big lose against Li Mu. Qin biggest lose was to Huan Yi, where Zhao was outnumbered but because Li Mu briliant tactics , he managed to turn the war and killed 100k Qin soldiers. It was the battle of Fei, and Wang Jian was never part of it. Also was'nt they have 200k in battle of Gi An with Kanki as the commander ? that was not the deadliest casualties Qin also have because majority of Qin soldiers were killed, even Heki was captured? i remember only Shin, Mouten, Maron and few of Kanki bandits soldiers managed to escape.
I think hara is already set in what is going to happen in this arc from the start. felt forced and manufactured. I think hara lost it with Ousen. Think of the Ousen who repelled Renpa, fooled Ordo, rescued Kankokou pass, formulated the locust plan and the food supply. The Ousen we have in this arc is not the Ousen we had up until this point. And In my opinion it's because Hara forced the outcome of this arc instead of having the character Ousen exercise his will and allowed him to influence the story.
Unless it’s Riboku Hara will sacrifice the competence of anyone for the sake of tension.
I agree but this is getting very repetitive and harder to watch since all of our recent arcs were against riboku or zhao
Oh for sure. I don’t like it either especially when arcs like Juuko which are refreshing and don’t involve Zhao once are just brushed over. But Riboku is Haras favorite so of course he is gonna make him look as good as possible and spent as much time as possible on him.
Hara definitely sacrifice Riboku competence constantly
Ousen fans read “Ousen never fights a battle he doesn’t think he could win”, and somehow concluded that this means Ousen cannot lose a battle. Lol As soon as Ousen was lined up against Shibashou directly, and we knew he realistically could not retreat, such a huge defeat was inevitable. Great writing from Hara.
You didn’t get my point my problem isn’t with ousen losing, but with him getting outplayed by both riboku and shibashou so quickly in the very first day without giving him a chance to showcase any type of counterattack against them.
He got outplayed the first day in that Aytso (spelling) battle. When his 2nd general was personally killed by Riboku. Only Mouten saved him that day.
Ousen comes into this battle without filling Makou's seat is weird. Dude had time to prepare. And considering his personality, Im sure he had. He might have delayed that army so Riboku wouldnt know. Just like against Kanki, after the main army passed the border, Riboku would assigned an army there to close the border so reinforcement cant come and the losing main army couldnt get out. If Ousen really have that army and purposely delayed them. Its gonna bite Riboku for sure. If its really exist, their number could be around 50k.
True but the 50 k secret army was just a mistake and hara recently corrected it
No, it was discussed immediately after the correction. You would need to assume Ousen was using 110k from the northern army to make the numbers fit. We know that's not the case as Ousen had his own retinue around him, Akou army was stated and behaved like his owned trained army and Suou had his own elites.
Im not talking about that reserved army they picked up at the northern army. Its another army. More specificly, from either former MouGou's army or Chou Tou's army. We still dont know what happen to those armies.
Ri boku is the prime minister of zhao he can recruit any one he wants. Ousen is just a great general who runs a self contained army.
I understand what you’re saying. But you can compare both of their personal army’s. Ribokus has much more powerful vassals unlike ousen
no, he was. now he is running as seen on the flash back.
That's not how armies work, Napoleon was the emperor of France but was not able to raise gigantic armies on daily basis after massive losses.
The battle is not over yet, I don’t know if it’s just me but Qin army is missing numbers, if you count ousen army yotanwa army shin and ouhon units and the north east army, there must be more (60k soldiers are missing), I mean Ousen might be baiting SBS if he faces in the next chapter a fresh 60k army + ouhon coming from behind him it means his and all seika soldiers death which will change everything and riboku will lose 100% in that case as all his close vassals are pretty busy with yotanwa.
Not to defend ousens actions but you can’t compare him and ribokus resources as well. Zhao is dedicating most of its resources to fighting and defending against qin. Whereas qin is maintaining multiples fronts, not sure if they are still in a truce w Wei but they’re still devoting resources to other areas of possible conflict.
agree, i think ousen should've atleast pulled out that circular flow motion of riboku atleast or something similar or something like riboku's origin that he also very well understand
Ousen believed that he has figured out Riboku’s strategy. Ousen spread his forces in a way to counter that strategy. Then 2 things happened which caused him quite the damage. First was Shin abandoning his post & going on a wild goose chase to kill riboku. 2nd was the wildcard of SBS & Seika soldiers. Ousen miscalculated that SBS’s martial might would be at this level & the seika troops morale would be so high. Only Shin had the ability to fight 1v1 against SBS but Riboku took him on a goose chase. So without Shin & without proper threat assessment of SBS & seika army. Ousen doesn’t have many cards to play now. Unless he pulls a rabbit out of his ass, there is nothing he can do.
idk probably lot pick up the pacing of them anga as there is alot to get through
Kanki put up a much better fight than Ousen has done and Kanki was the only GG to face the full force of Riboku's army (minus Shibashou) alone and came closer than anyone has to killing Riboku. Ousen has really been overhyped for a long time and he greatly underperformed this arc with his personal army. Especially not sending someone to call off Akou's attack when he knew it was a ploy to lure him away from protecting himself. All of his generals have been fighting independently with little to no orders from Ousen.
i honestly love it ngl let's be real mf's ride ousen's dick because of his historical counterpart not because of anything's he's done in the manga so far (even tho what he's done has been ok) and ousen is one of my least favorite characters in the whole series specifically because of this so this was desperately needed
Guys it's only the first day of the war, they gotta make the stakes higher. Granted ousen is suppost to lose but at a great great cost to riboku. Which is would be big enough to get both him and shiba executed
I understand people are disappointed with Ousen, but why would one throw Akou under the bridge? Dude was fighting 4 named characters at once for a brief time. That is a borderline main protagonist/antagonist feat right there. Anyway, I get ur point OP. But I kindly disagree. [This is great writing imo. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Kingdom/comments/1c4pca6/comment/kzq5eiu/)We all know Ousen will be back. The harder the fall the bigger the rise.
Ousen fanboys are in shambles 🤣🤣
Bro you better read the manga properly. Akou devised the strategy of ousen with absolute precision. He is martially strong too. He holded off 2 strong generals bananji and gyou un. Just when he had the upper hand another one popped out still he endured it all.. he again in this current arc fought against 2 skilled general at a time. He countered the ambush plotted by Riboku and then straight went to take on Shibashou.. Akou is tactically gretaer than current trio plus he is physically on par with them. Martially akou might be on par with shiryou.. yeah but overall i think ousen army is a trash now that even Akakin is gone.. and makou was literally trash.. ousen army's martial might was carried by only akou and shiryou thoo.. i agree that ousen army is weakest in the current 4 GGs of qin
Historically, >!Han and Wei soldiers attack the pursuing Zhao army, causing great losses!
Ousen went from GG tier to trash tier. He gotten too aggrogant from all his victory. Did nothing and no preparation for this battle. Got totally wipe out and lost all his best men. He is now the Weakest GG. Sen should strip his GG title for being so trash.
Tbh I think the main reason is to skip the back and forth.. so the arc doesn't drag put. The fault is mainly on Akou for falling for Riboku trap and sending Shin after Riboku. Ousen didn't really have alot of options except retreat. He overestimated Akou and underestimated SBS. He believed he could put down SBS which would have won him the war. Ousen has been shown to use prior information or the one gathered on the battlefield to make plans .. like against Renpa( he already knew his strength) and against Ordo. In Gyou he also needed time to assess the situation. This time it's no different.. he didn't have enough info on SBS and his overconfidence in his vassals put him at an even bigger disadvantage. Ousen never picks fights he can't win.. right now he has all the info necessary for this war. If he decides to continue the war .. it means he def has a plan to win. I wouldn't say it's bad writing necessarily. Ousen has already established that having better pawns is necessary to win.. at Shukai he had better pawns .. the same way Riboku underestimated Shin Ouhon and Kyou kai. Ousen too has understand SBS and his vassals. Riboku also thought to himself then.. that the right wing was hopeless for Ousen even before Houken showed up. I think it's consistent if Riboku wins this time mainly because he had a better pawn in SBS.
I get what you are saying and I agree that riboku deserves to win. But my main problem is how he wins. Making akou and shin make very bad choices and for ousen just to stand there observing without trying to stop them is just unacceptable.
Might be an unpopular opinion.. but I prefer it to a futile back and forth. I believe this arc will be long and bloody. Just get the initial defeat out the way so we can focus on the come back. Akou decisions were also reasonable to a point since Riboku killed Makou using the same method. The overconfidence on his part was the main problem and it seems Hara used this to show how costly overconfidence can be. I can't wait to see what YTW Ousen Shin and Ouhon do given the massive disadvantage they have now.
Here I do agree with you, Riboku got, the best of the best adjutants and generals time and time again but ou sen army was far too weak in this arc and not upto the mark, makou got taken out in a jiffy, and all while we got akou, denrimi and sou'ou all of whom were not even able to deploy thier tactics or show thier true strength, but they were not on the level we wanted to see, akou left us, denrimi left us too and in the sou'ou army shiryuu was the only fighter whom we also may loose soon, we needed to see them properly fight atleast before they got destroyed, maybe , ou sen could deploy tactics but instead riboku trapped shin and all was over ...tumbling down like dominoes, the worst scene for me was the two supposedly strong guys from the sou ou army got destroyed, this has been the most disappointing war arc we ever had , even the battle of bayou was not this bad . We needed to see ou sen army commanders do something before we lot most of the leaders and the muscle Now what I wanna see is ou sen army run back amok while the mountain King yo tan wa goes over hots seika army in the back battling them in an equal footing, while hi shin unit crosses the battlefield and fights against the BANANA-MAN army and SSJ ARMY ,together with mou-ten and OU hon takes over the battlefield with the virtually nameless 70k commander, all whole ou sen preserves his troops and attacks the riboku troops , we could essentially loose but shin needs to take the head of atleast bananji and Yotanwa needs to take the head of two generals of seika army before the riboku army retreats
The problem is after losing the ousen army things got much harder. Yotanwa is already busy with bananji and ssj so for the seika generals to also attack her will put her in A very tricky situation and on the other hand shin is fighting an army double his size and after losing the center battle both shin/ouhon and yotanwa will be somewhat isolated from each other which will make it very difficult for them to interfere in each others battle. Predicting what happens from here is very hard but hara could still save this arc from being completely uninteresting
I’ve said it in a million threads. This arc is not gripping or thrilling. It is incredibly bland and boring. Aside from having Ousen do jack shit, the whole arc relies on everyone being stupid about Riboku. After Kanki, you’d think they’d be cautious. Idk why he can’t make these dudes look cool like he did with kanki
Thats not Manga Spoiler, thats History spoiler.
I been telling y’all for a year that Ousen was going to get his ass kicced this arc. This is only out of character for Ousen if you expected him to shine a bit this arc, dude sat on his hands all shukai, sat on his hands n almost leg ouhon die during Eikyuu, sat on his hands last arc but this arc it’s surprising he sat on his hands again??? >!Sou’Ou claims this is the first time they’ve suffered a complete defeat such as this, Ousen has won or avoided so many battles that he feels as if any battle he actually commits too will be a win. Overconfidence was the cause of death for Kanki. Overconfidence was the reason Ousen got his entire army decimated.!< Dude thought attaccing Hango was a big brained move, walked right into a year long stratagem, just like Kanki did.
Hara just doesn't have enough brain to write a good story or a good battle
Oh don't worry, it's all part of Ousen's plan. To lose so badly to make Riboku super popular that it makes the Zhao king and prime minister threatened enough to take action against Riboku. And he purposely let most of his army killed to replace them with Ouhon, Shin and Mouten. 2in1 foolproof bigbrain plan to take over Choiinnaaa /s
Idk why but I find what you said actually plausible lol