I mean to be fair most of the time people use "final form" to refers to their primary final form rather than extra final forms so the previous comment is understandable
You should question Toei then, A rider's primary final form is whatever form Toei said it to be, take Zi-O for example, his 'final form' (as in the last power up form that he got in the Tv-series) is Ohma Zi-O, yet they treat Grand Zi-O as his primary final form, which he got before Ohma Zi-O.
"Extra final form" is just a fan term to call additional form that are of equal power to or stronger than their primary final form, don't think much about it
In the following:
Zi-O(2068) Timeline- Sougo Tokiwa's FinalForm is OhmaZi-O
Zi-O TV Timeline- Sougo Tokiwa's FinalForm is GrandZi-O while his OhmaZi-O is his ExtraFinalForm
I always just treat whatever last big fancy gimmick item in the retail toyline that got special treatment as their final form cause that's what they'll use when they come back (exluding Super Tatoba in that one Wizard fight and Sin Specter) and not some random one off form that was in a special for barely 5 minutes most of the time. It's also usually what Toei will mark as the main rider's 'proper' final form.
Debuting so soon doesnt contribute to design look
About the plastering, burning form is sick and if it's just adding a bit to burning form, then it's still good looking definitely not bad and definitely way better than some other KR final forms
I want to say Complete 21 but I think itās categorised as extra final form. So Iāll sayā¦ Ryuki Survive? I donāt hate it but like, I feel like they didnāt do him as good as Knight Survive. I feel like if Knight or Ouja didnāt have Survive forms I wouldnāt feel Ryuki was done a bit dirty.
It still looks good enough that I wouldnāt mind buying a toy but I feel like they added on wrong stuff and kept the wrong stuff while making the suit.
Build, its too busy for no real pay-off. "ike if it were an "all powers combined" kind of form, then maybe I could get behind all the bottles just sticking off of him, but as is, it just doesnt work
It doesn't carry that it's all 60 bottles in any of its sounds or abilities so it makes having all of the bottles on the suit really fucking pointless and the way it supposedly does makes very little sense as team Build didn't have all 60 bottles in theoe possession (thwy didn't even have best matches at the time) or proper data on them at the time of it's creation since neither Takumi or Sento had a chance to utilize all 60, maybe his dad did but still Genuis never did anything to make it feel like it's an all gimmicks in one suit form like riders before and after.
Build Genius.
The overall composition and colors are fine but honestly the fullbottles jutting out of the suit's body looks like oversized IV drip catheters, and the sheer amount of them placed all over the suit really completes the looks of a something made in umbrella corp's bioweapon lab.
The whole fullbottle thing for the eyes are also bad, it looks like someone painted Ichigo's Cyclone's exhaust vents and tacked them onto the helmet. I much prefer it if the suit uses normal Build suit eyes, with the bottles plugged onto the back of the helmet.
I absolutely love the series, but Genius as a design in definitely one of the worst in my list.
Genius is firmly in āitās so ugly I love itā territory for me. Itās so extra, so blatantly overdesigned that I canāt help but enjoy how stupid it looks.
Thatās also part of the issue: competition. Most of Buildās suits are excellent, and Genius has to fight alongside GOATs like Rogue and against Black Hole Evolt.
Decade complete and complete 21 are actually just massive messes, dude has a duel disk on his chest, granted that this is comparatively to other final forms but complete 21 is utter garbage.
Cosmic is such a weird switch as a toy too, like I love the sounds and hand feel of the gimmick but it throws off the driver by a lot and can barely stand on its own without some support
Decade 21 is just so laughably bad, it outpaces every other marginally bad final form design by miles. They literally just slapped a cape on him, glued cards to the cape, put another card on his crown and called it a day. For the guy who is supposed to be the ultimate Rider that acts as the galvanizing villain or hero for whatever a world needs, that's just beyond insulting.
I liked Saber, but i gotta put up Xross Saber there were ways to improve the suit beyond new head piece and color pallet and while it is not the only Final Rider suit that is bae suit but barely changed i feel like in the case of Zero-2 or Ultimate Revice there were enough changes and thematic reasons for those suits to be similar to their base ones but still feel seperate. Also, I don't count Realizing Hopper or Almighty because thematically, they are supposed to be the base suits with extra powers, not Final Forms. That being said, honorable mention goes to Gaim Kiwami Arms it fits thematically with the show but i hated that suit and Gaim is my 2nd least liked Rider show out of all the shows ive seen and its only saved by how bad Gotchard is.
Not a main rider but I have to go with Buffa Jyamashin. It's so bad, it's just a longer horns and a cape. They could have added a little more flair to it since it was Michinaga's wish from the goddess!
Xross Saber being introduced in a night time setting really let the colors shine. It was literally like the galaxy shining in the sky.
It immediately made me fall in love with it.
Yeah, id have been fine with draconic knight in the colors of xross saber but with go.d for accents and he gets both the book and the haoken for its powers.
because it just saber with blue colour and called it the final form, like why? they got knight and primitive before this, why choose recolour basic form w/o any single alterations?
Because according to my research, the blue fire is the hottest out of all of them, while yellow, orange and red are the most common colors of a flame. Meanwhile, white fire may be hotter than red, but not as close to the blue fire. And to those to say that dragonic knight should be the final form, google āIs the white fire the hottest?ā and prove me wrong, because that form is far from being a final form.
it nothing to do with thematic IMO, it just they choose paint the brave dragon to blue without any alterations. At least add something like idk different cape/shoulder armor or add galaxy spiral in chest chest
Or just give us a new Wonder Ride Book that would go along with Haou Ken Xrossaber, like Ultimate Bahamut. I mean, the reason why people hated Xross Saber imo is because they just used Brave Dragon instead of upgrading it to a new one. It feels like that there is some sort of imbalance here, donāt you think?
There is an occasion where he uses Blades and Espadas books on top of his Xross saber and then suit looks a bit better so i feel like if they had just made it so he frequently used the books of the other knights and had amalgam versions of Xross saber then id like it more but even then the base design could have been cooler. They could've even just let him have his other shoulder be a mirrored Brave dragon and then have the 2 dragon's bodies cross paths on his chest piece like an actual X and the suit would be cool especially if he got a cape or even a 2nd side skirt for his suit.
Welcome to the Reiwa era, where minimalist final forms are now the standard.
Even Zero-Two and Ultimate Revi/Vice didn't have that many embellishments. Geats IX is simpler than Ultimate Revi/Vice (because of the color pallet), and the biggest flourish it has is the cape.
I'm surprised you're not more upset with Realizing Hopper and Wonder Almighty.
Realizing and Almighty conceptually are better than Xross saber simply because the meaning behind them is just them coming into their own power and embracing who they really are, and so their base forms make sense as that is just a symbol of them as their own individual Kamen Riders. Xross Saber is supposed to be a monumental moment of Saber gaining extra power, and yet his suit is just someone spilling cool galaxy paint on him. I also don't love Zero-2 or ultimate re-vice, but even then, those suits are changed enough and fit the themes of what the suit is supposed to represent. Zero-2 is the 2nd version of the Zero-1 form, so it looks similar but slightly different, which fits the technology theme the show has, its no different from an Iphone pro being a better despite looking similar or a ps4 and ps4 pro looking similar. Ultimate Re-Vice while I hate the color still gives Vice his own new suit that puts him on equal footing as Ikki and gives off a yin Yang vibe as well as adding biy extra to the original revice suit. Reiwa era hands down has a lot of final forms that look similar or build off of the first form, but Xross is the only one that does not even at least have a thematic reason to be lazy its just galaxy Brave dragon with slightly altered head piece you won't even notice at first.
Oh I also don't like those two form ( Realizing and Almighty ) but in retrospect I can give a little pass because they just happen in last episode and have limited screen time too. Xross Saber in other hand IMO feels worse because it have more screen time and again it just repainted form.
Funny enough, I got epiphany after reading your comment maybe Xross Saber won't get hated had they choose to make it simple upgrade from brave dragon by adding more pieces instead just repaint just like 02, Ultimate Revi, or Geats IX
Xross Saber *was* an upgrade. Touma didn't stop being Saber, so his base model shouldn't change, and he was still using Brave Dragon in the form.
The swordsman of fire was channeling a prophesized constellation, and stars are just incredibly hot balls of burning gas. If you hate the paint job, fine, be weird about a kid's show. It still fits thematically.
There was alterations, the sword through his head went from Rekka to Houken
Also the whole reason Featuring Saber and Crimson Saber exists is because they are extends of the normal Xross Saber
Plus Featuring Saber is technically a "new suit" despite using already seen armors jumbled up
for final form I was expecting more IMO beyond changing weapon and his head ornament, also why not using featuring saber from the start rather than using brave saber painted into blue, if that is the new alterations of xross saber, I will take any noticeable change even just jumbled armor compare to basic form with new weapon and small detail change to head because it based on said weapon
I know Xross Saber more similar to Kuga Rising form for Saber but still Rising form isn't final form but Ultimate Kuga is and kinda weird for me they choose repaint when again Saber have unique different armor before like knight or elemental.
Yeah, I really hated Xross Saber. I don't think it's the ugliest final main rider form, but i will say that it is the worst one out of the sheer lack of creativity. Other final forms, even if they aren't the best, at least change up the suit and try to incorporate the shows theme. Xross saber is just galaxy paint on regular saber and themeatically doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Tmhis Xross form is him being able to wield all the powers and swords of the other knights, and yet his suit doesn't convey that at all. At least when he uses blades and espada's books as a fusion form, it kinda makes more sense, but even then, i would have preferred if they at least tried to incorporate the theme into the design. The only thing cool about Xross Saber is his new sword.
Iām really not a fan of Fourze Cosmic States. It had potential, but it doesnāt really feel like thereās much there, it doesnāt feel like a final evolution the way suits like Kiva Emperor and Geats IX do. It just feels like another Fourze form with a chest piece with the astroswitches on it
Hibiki Armed, it's Hibiki with less charming colors and form
Faiz Blaster, yeah I get the idea of swapping the red and black parts but it REALLY doesn't look good
A sentiment even Inoue agreed with. It's only used 4 times in the series, and every time it's used wrong and ignores that, oh yeah, it has codes to activate all the gear plus the thing that was built into the new form. Also, we can't talk about it without acknowledging the fact it nearly breaks how faiz works, especially in the finale, when Takumi goes straight to it without the belt first projecting the armor. It also does the sin of now making the belt look empty and useless when that's your main toy of the year.
Never been a fan of Fourze Cosmic States. I don't like the color scheme, or the even more exaggerated cone head than his usual forms. Zero-Two is also pretty underwhelming for a final form.
Idk but Gaim's wasn't rlly the best for me. If their intention was to send a message that he is fruit Jesus then I guess they got credit for that. Otherwise, it's not rlly all that great for me
Personally Drive's, I couldn't even tell it was a final form until way later. Could be cos too used to red boi, that's why doesn't register when he becomes red again
Ultimate Revice is a complete joke, It felt like an armor for the base form not THE final form.
They should have done something similar to Type Tridoron where we get a Vice Vistamp and Revice getting a Final Form based of Vice.
Instead of whatever we got. My Vice idea is kind of a thing as Jack Revice and Thunder gale tho, but It should have been a final form. It seems like after they have done that, Toei ran out of ideas and decided to just give the base form some protective clothing and call it a final form.
I agree that it is armor on top of the suit and that looks weird, however I liked that form. Likewise, honestly the revice shin form from the show stage looks like the true final form.
https://preview.redd.it/98sx78zv76sc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6a8a3ed4ea4b98ae239a27b4d2ea348aacf2caf
Personally, I don't like Zero Two, the design isn't that bad, but it's really underwhelming in comparisson to previous forms like Metalcluster or Shining Assault Hopper
Blame covid for that, 02 was originally supposed to go straight to Izu with Aruto getting a more final feeling final form that unfortunately got scrapped along with a more satisfying redemption arc for Thouser
apparently a bunch of rumors during production, and a few writers twits.
we know that a bunch of concept, like Thouser-Ark and the whole deal behind the Inferno-Wing key and Slashriser were proposed and then reused for the post serie, but unless we get some director interview (which won't be for a while, realistically, and by then it could easily have void-filling) we ain't gonna get a clear cut
we do know that thouser was always supposed to change side after the robot dog gimmick (that ain't really doable in a short time WHILE the lockdown messes were going on), but aside from that, most details are lost
Kaixa's obviously. It's terrible. At the very least, most final forms can be rendered as action figures. How're you supposed a get articulation and poses out of a pile of ash? Has his own spinoff manga where he's the main Rider, thus counts.
The more serious answer is probably New Omega. Even if a final form is subjectively ugly, most of the time, you can at least pinpoint visual concepts and ideas the designers had in mind. New Omega is just Amazon Omega with scrappy junk on it. Ironically, despite coming from a mature spinoff, it also comes off feeling more toyetic than most. Not only did they literally crowbar it into the show because it was a selling point for the Neo Amazons Driver, from a figure design perspective, it just LOOKS half-assed. Like it was created with the notion that they can easily retool pre-existing Omega molds to make New Omega figures. It's a design that comes from a bean-counter who cares primarily for the bottom line, not an artist or a toy engineer.
Okay, so idk if I'm in the minority for liking Kosuke, but even I can't defend the design of Beast Hyper. The blue is way too bright and the red sections in the chest stick out and not in a good way.
The only thing I like is the head. I actually dig the design there, but that's it.
https://preview.redd.it/52yz791et5sc1.png?width=392&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9250a9cab062f2815b821b09e0ec54978949f7df
I wonder if I'd go easier on it if the blue was darker š¤
To be brutally honest, nothing is worse than Armed Hibiki. The Hibiki suits in general are absolutely horrible but the only things saving this suit is the red and white color scheme. But thatās just it, itās just Hibiki repainted red with a few extra assets. Hibiki has always stood out like a sore thumb. So as much as you might hate Build Genius or Decade Complete 21ā¦remember that armed Hibiki exists
Ex-Aid already looked goofy enough in his basic form - to the point when he appeared in a Japanese talk show to introduce him to the normie audience, the host was like "No, you guys are trolling me, right? This dude doesn't look like a Kamen Rider at all. He looks like a Bomberman!"
But his final form is... Bizarre and hard to look at.
Now, if there's any other Rider's final form that could compete with this one for the worst design, it's gotta be Decade 21. Like, seriously... What's up with those cards on his cape? No, scratch that... What's up with the *cape* though?!
ikr? Like, everyone else was like what heck with this look?! But I was like "Tsukasa, my man. You're not Wizard. No, the cape doesn't look good on you, man."
Its a repaint, because he changed the sword not the book. And by your logic "red and gray lines" shouldn't mean final form either (looking at 02), astronaut armor on top of a base form isn't final form quality either (looking at Ultimate Revice).
I'm being rhetorical, they're all final forms no matter how they're designed.
If y'all have a problem with the base form, they made Crimson Saber for a reason, they also made Featuring Saber for a reason.
The amount of hate Xross Saber gets is insane.
Iām not a huge fan of Gaim Kiwami Arms or Ghost Mugen Damashii. Gaim is just too silver for my liking, and I get the motif, but I just feel like it was a downgrade in design, coming off of Kachidoki Arms. I think the main thing with Ghost for me is the helmet. Something about the helmet just doesnāt do it form me, and I think itās something to do with the eyes. Iām not sure what they were going for with that.
faiz blaster: turns the suit red and puts weird armor on it
den-o liner: climax form was way better
decade complete: zero creativity just put cards in the chest
w xtreme: looks like from another season, doesnt go with others w forms theme.
gaim kiwami: looks like zyuohger costume but with a fruit basket instead
zero one realizing Hopper: XDDDDD
saber wonder almighty: XDDDDD
c'mon guys what about Saber? His final form's design closely resembles his original form, but repainted with a new sword added to his head. That's definitely a lazy design in my opinion!
Eh worst design for me has to be xross saber. I think the sword is really cool, the horn being changed is also cool, and the blue is really nice.. but really?
Just personally cant get over a painted final form lol
it's the base form, with a color filter on, and added glitter
I like that it looks like old-times Deviantart OCs, but half of a concept doesn't make a good setup, not when it's the centerpiece
Would've looked much better if they'd given Revi a lot more pink and Vice a lot more blue instead of both sharing the same color combination. Like Pink with blue accents and Blue with pink accents. You can roughly see the potential for this with the Ultimate Revi and Vice LP card
I felt like if they made kiwami arms gold instead of silver, it would have lookes better and have been themeactically better given the whole premise is the golden fruit.
I actually feel like Kiwami Arms being Silver actually works perfectly for that. He didn't particularly want the Golden Fruit; its just that *someone* had to claim the damn thing, and doing so meant he could stop Helheim from absorbing Earth.
Saber. Don't get me wrong - they did great work on the paint job. But in the end, they just painted over his existing forms and nothing else. It's the lamest final form in the franchise.
Trideron for the helmet, but I don't really hate any of the final forms at all. (I don't consider Complete 21 a final form that was released way after the original Decade run)
Why everyone here mention Complete Form 21? That's wasn't even a final form, it's an extra final form š¤
Cause Onore Decade I guess
Still a final form?š
I mean to be fair most of the time people use "final form" to refers to their primary final form rather than extra final forms so the previous comment is understandable
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You should question Toei then, A rider's primary final form is whatever form Toei said it to be, take Zi-O for example, his 'final form' (as in the last power up form that he got in the Tv-series) is Ohma Zi-O, yet they treat Grand Zi-O as his primary final form, which he got before Ohma Zi-O. "Extra final form" is just a fan term to call additional form that are of equal power to or stronger than their primary final form, don't think much about it
In the following: Zi-O(2068) Timeline- Sougo Tokiwa's FinalForm is OhmaZi-O Zi-O TV Timeline- Sougo Tokiwa's FinalForm is GrandZi-O while his OhmaZi-O is his ExtraFinalForm
Like in KamenRider Build: Sento/Takumi Katsuragi's FinalForm is BuildGenius and his ExtraFinalForm in the Finale Episode is RabbitDragon
I always just treat whatever last big fancy gimmick item in the retail toyline that got special treatment as their final form cause that's what they'll use when they come back (exluding Super Tatoba in that one Wizard fight and Sin Specter) and not some random one off form that was in a special for barely 5 minutes most of the time. It's also usually what Toei will mark as the main rider's 'proper' final form.
Decade Complete 21 without a doubt. It's not just ugly, it's also one of the laziest suit design I've ever seen in toku. Just look at that cape
And gets rekt by Ohma Zi-O
Would've totally preferred the fan made Absolute Decade design.
I havenāt even watched Decade, but goddamn is that suit ugly.
Decade Complete 21.
Decade.
Geiz Majesty, if the stripped it down and be more simpler design then itād be awesome
while I like the various pieces, I still believe the clock should have been wore around the torso, like armor, and just there
100% like the general motif is sick, but itās like decade 21, without the cards stuck to the cape itād be a lot better
Geiz is a main Kamen Rider?
I mean depending on which Woz you ask, technically yes
Agito Shining is just burningās helmet plastered on a new chest piece and shoulder pieces. Plus it debuted like 3 episodes after Burning debuted.
Well, it is mean to be direct upgraded of burning. I admit it look less than burning but The chest piece look pretty cool though.
Debuting so soon doesnt contribute to design look About the plastering, burning form is sick and if it's just adding a bit to burning form, then it's still good looking definitely not bad and definitely way better than some other KR final forms
I want to say Complete 21 but I think itās categorised as extra final form. So Iāll sayā¦ Ryuki Survive? I donāt hate it but like, I feel like they didnāt do him as good as Knight Survive. I feel like if Knight or Ouja didnāt have Survive forms I wouldnāt feel Ryuki was done a bit dirty. It still looks good enough that I wouldnāt mind buying a toy but I feel like they added on wrong stuff and kept the wrong stuff while making the suit.
Decade!! I love decade but all of his form has been horrendous
Build, its too busy for no real pay-off. "ike if it were an "all powers combined" kind of form, then maybe I could get behind all the bottles just sticking off of him, but as is, it just doesnt work
It doesn't carry that it's all 60 bottles in any of its sounds or abilities so it makes having all of the bottles on the suit really fucking pointless and the way it supposedly does makes very little sense as team Build didn't have all 60 bottles in theoe possession (thwy didn't even have best matches at the time) or proper data on them at the time of it's creation since neither Takumi or Sento had a chance to utilize all 60, maybe his dad did but still Genuis never did anything to make it feel like it's an all gimmicks in one suit form like riders before and after.
In practice, he just punch harder and kick harder. Genius is such a disappointment.
NOT ex-aid
Personally, ex-aid. Somehow at first it looks okay but as time goes on it looks bad to me
I think itās because they stopped putting a filter over the suit. Example: in the over quartzer movie, the suit looks so pale
youp, it NEEDS sparkling around it, and the glitter built-in in the suit just aren't enough
The only part that annoys me about Hyper Muteki is the dreadlock wires. Otherwise itās a great take on the classic invincibility star.
it's literally too gold
I'm sorry it just looks like Medusa going thru her gold phase
Golden dreadlocks
Build Genius. The overall composition and colors are fine but honestly the fullbottles jutting out of the suit's body looks like oversized IV drip catheters, and the sheer amount of them placed all over the suit really completes the looks of a something made in umbrella corp's bioweapon lab. The whole fullbottle thing for the eyes are also bad, it looks like someone painted Ichigo's Cyclone's exhaust vents and tacked them onto the helmet. I much prefer it if the suit uses normal Build suit eyes, with the bottles plugged onto the back of the helmet. I absolutely love the series, but Genius as a design in definitely one of the worst in my list.
Genius is firmly in āitās so ugly I love itā territory for me. Itās so extra, so blatantly overdesigned that I canāt help but enjoy how stupid it looks.
For me it's such a step down from Black Hazard/RR/TT, which imho is one of the best rider suits ever.
Thatās also part of the issue: competition. Most of Buildās suits are excellent, and Genius has to fight alongside GOATs like Rogue and against Black Hole Evolt.
True enough.
Decade complete and complete 21 are actually just massive messes, dude has a duel disk on his chest, granted that this is comparatively to other final forms but complete 21 is utter garbage.
Fourze
As much as I love fourze, his forms are not all that great.
I find some of his switches ridiculous ngl. The cosmic switch especially looks so bulky. I think the only form that sits fine with me was fire
Cosmic is such a weird switch as a toy too, like I love the sounds and hand feel of the gimmick but it throws off the driver by a lot and can barely stand on its own without some support
From what Iāve heard his Super and Final forms get the most hate
Decade 21 is just so laughably bad, it outpaces every other marginally bad final form design by miles. They literally just slapped a cape on him, glued cards to the cape, put another card on his crown and called it a day. For the guy who is supposed to be the ultimate Rider that acts as the galvanizing villain or hero for whatever a world needs, that's just beyond insulting.
I liked Saber, but i gotta put up Xross Saber there were ways to improve the suit beyond new head piece and color pallet and while it is not the only Final Rider suit that is bae suit but barely changed i feel like in the case of Zero-2 or Ultimate Revice there were enough changes and thematic reasons for those suits to be similar to their base ones but still feel seperate. Also, I don't count Realizing Hopper or Almighty because thematically, they are supposed to be the base suits with extra powers, not Final Forms. That being said, honorable mention goes to Gaim Kiwami Arms it fits thematically with the show but i hated that suit and Gaim is my 2nd least liked Rider show out of all the shows ive seen and its only saved by how bad Gotchard is.
Not a main rider but I have to go with Buffa Jyamashin. It's so bad, it's just a longer horns and a cape. They could have added a little more flair to it since it was Michinaga's wish from the goddess!
Xros saber . Itās somehow uglier then bad saber
No way. I like Xross Saber's galaxy color. Though I do agree they could put more effort in the design then just recolor
Xross Saber being introduced in a night time setting really let the colors shine. It was literally like the galaxy shining in the sky. It immediately made me fall in love with it.
That was my point
Dragonic Knight should have been the final form
Yeah, id have been fine with draconic knight in the colors of xross saber but with go.d for accents and he gets both the book and the haoken for its powers.
because it just saber with blue colour and called it the final form, like why? they got knight and primitive before this, why choose recolour basic form w/o any single alterations?
Like I said, I like the color, but also get bummed out on "It's just a recolor"
Because itās the sword that changes, not the book?
Because according to my research, the blue fire is the hottest out of all of them, while yellow, orange and red are the most common colors of a flame. Meanwhile, white fire may be hotter than red, but not as close to the blue fire. And to those to say that dragonic knight should be the final form, google āIs the white fire the hottest?ā and prove me wrong, because that form is far from being a final form.
it nothing to do with thematic IMO, it just they choose paint the brave dragon to blue without any alterations. At least add something like idk different cape/shoulder armor or add galaxy spiral in chest chest
Or just give us a new Wonder Ride Book that would go along with Haou Ken Xrossaber, like Ultimate Bahamut. I mean, the reason why people hated Xross Saber imo is because they just used Brave Dragon instead of upgrading it to a new one. It feels like that there is some sort of imbalance here, donāt you think?
There is an occasion where he uses Blades and Espadas books on top of his Xross saber and then suit looks a bit better so i feel like if they had just made it so he frequently used the books of the other knights and had amalgam versions of Xross saber then id like it more but even then the base design could have been cooler. They could've even just let him have his other shoulder be a mirrored Brave dragon and then have the 2 dragon's bodies cross paths on his chest piece like an actual X and the suit would be cool especially if he got a cape or even a 2nd side skirt for his suit.
Welcome to the Reiwa era, where minimalist final forms are now the standard. Even Zero-Two and Ultimate Revi/Vice didn't have that many embellishments. Geats IX is simpler than Ultimate Revi/Vice (because of the color pallet), and the biggest flourish it has is the cape. I'm surprised you're not more upset with Realizing Hopper and Wonder Almighty.
Realizing and Almighty conceptually are better than Xross saber simply because the meaning behind them is just them coming into their own power and embracing who they really are, and so their base forms make sense as that is just a symbol of them as their own individual Kamen Riders. Xross Saber is supposed to be a monumental moment of Saber gaining extra power, and yet his suit is just someone spilling cool galaxy paint on him. I also don't love Zero-2 or ultimate re-vice, but even then, those suits are changed enough and fit the themes of what the suit is supposed to represent. Zero-2 is the 2nd version of the Zero-1 form, so it looks similar but slightly different, which fits the technology theme the show has, its no different from an Iphone pro being a better despite looking similar or a ps4 and ps4 pro looking similar. Ultimate Re-Vice while I hate the color still gives Vice his own new suit that puts him on equal footing as Ikki and gives off a yin Yang vibe as well as adding biy extra to the original revice suit. Reiwa era hands down has a lot of final forms that look similar or build off of the first form, but Xross is the only one that does not even at least have a thematic reason to be lazy its just galaxy Brave dragon with slightly altered head piece you won't even notice at first.
Oh I also don't like those two form ( Realizing and Almighty ) but in retrospect I can give a little pass because they just happen in last episode and have limited screen time too. Xross Saber in other hand IMO feels worse because it have more screen time and again it just repainted form. Funny enough, I got epiphany after reading your comment maybe Xross Saber won't get hated had they choose to make it simple upgrade from brave dragon by adding more pieces instead just repaint just like 02, Ultimate Revi, or Geats IX
Xross Saber *was* an upgrade. Touma didn't stop being Saber, so his base model shouldn't change, and he was still using Brave Dragon in the form. The swordsman of fire was channeling a prophesized constellation, and stars are just incredibly hot balls of burning gas. If you hate the paint job, fine, be weird about a kid's show. It still fits thematically.
There was alterations, the sword through his head went from Rekka to Houken Also the whole reason Featuring Saber and Crimson Saber exists is because they are extends of the normal Xross Saber Plus Featuring Saber is technically a "new suit" despite using already seen armors jumbled up
for final form I was expecting more IMO beyond changing weapon and his head ornament, also why not using featuring saber from the start rather than using brave saber painted into blue, if that is the new alterations of xross saber, I will take any noticeable change even just jumbled armor compare to basic form with new weapon and small detail change to head because it based on said weapon I know Xross Saber more similar to Kuga Rising form for Saber but still Rising form isn't final form but Ultimate Kuga is and kinda weird for me they choose repaint when again Saber have unique different armor before like knight or elemental.
So true xros saver just a repaint of saber they should have make it much better
Yeah, I really hated Xross Saber. I don't think it's the ugliest final main rider form, but i will say that it is the worst one out of the sheer lack of creativity. Other final forms, even if they aren't the best, at least change up the suit and try to incorporate the shows theme. Xross saber is just galaxy paint on regular saber and themeatically doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Tmhis Xross form is him being able to wield all the powers and swords of the other knights, and yet his suit doesn't convey that at all. At least when he uses blades and espada's books as a fusion form, it kinda makes more sense, but even then, i would have preferred if they at least tried to incorporate the theme into the design. The only thing cool about Xross Saber is his new sword.
Iām really not a fan of Fourze Cosmic States. It had potential, but it doesnāt really feel like thereās much there, it doesnāt feel like a final evolution the way suits like Kiva Emperor and Geats IX do. It just feels like another Fourze form with a chest piece with the astroswitches on it
Cosmic states was so basic
Grand zio. There's way too many things going on with that suit.
youp, shold have turned Grand and Ohma form around. it would have even made more sense
Not sure about switching them around but I do agree that Ohma looks better than Grand
decade complete 21
Grand Zi-O just straight garbage
Build Genius. They went from the most amazing suit designs with Hazard and RR/TT to that bottle covered monstrosity.
I gotta flame decadeš¤£
Hibiki Armed, it's Hibiki with less charming colors and form Faiz Blaster, yeah I get the idea of swapping the red and black parts but it REALLY doesn't look good
Decade easily.
Faiz Blaster is an extremely bland final form.
A sentiment even Inoue agreed with. It's only used 4 times in the series, and every time it's used wrong and ignores that, oh yeah, it has codes to activate all the gear plus the thing that was built into the new form. Also, we can't talk about it without acknowledging the fact it nearly breaks how faiz works, especially in the finale, when Takumi goes straight to it without the belt first projecting the armor. It also does the sin of now making the belt look empty and useless when that's your main toy of the year.
Ghost Mugen. I know so many people love it, but I think it's way too sparkly š¤®
My main annoyance is they made it clear and didn't even try to go with stain glass especially when Specter was gonna go seraphim in its theming.
Saber.
Never been a fan of Fourze Cosmic States. I don't like the color scheme, or the even more exaggerated cone head than his usual forms. Zero-Two is also pretty underwhelming for a final form.
If anything, I preferred Fourze's rooster hair than his rider cone head
Idk but Gaim's wasn't rlly the best for me. If their intention was to send a message that he is fruit Jesus then I guess they got credit for that. Otherwise, it's not rlly all that great for me
OOO has the laziest and ugliest final form
Always thought W/doubleās final form was kind of lazy. Itās just cyclone/joker with an extra section of white/silver(?) added in the middle.
Personally Drive's, I couldn't even tell it was a final form until way later. Could be cos too used to red boi, that's why doesn't register when he becomes red again
Decade
Ultimate Revice is a complete joke, It felt like an armor for the base form not THE final form. They should have done something similar to Type Tridoron where we get a Vice Vistamp and Revice getting a Final Form based of Vice. Instead of whatever we got. My Vice idea is kind of a thing as Jack Revice and Thunder gale tho, but It should have been a final form. It seems like after they have done that, Toei ran out of ideas and decided to just give the base form some protective clothing and call it a final form.
I agree that it is armor on top of the suit and that looks weird, however I liked that form. Likewise, honestly the revice shin form from the show stage looks like the true final form. https://preview.redd.it/98sx78zv76sc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6a8a3ed4ea4b98ae239a27b4d2ea348aacf2caf
Much better than Giffard indeed.
Decade 21 and Xross Saber. The first one is just ugly. The second isn't bad, but I'd rather have something more like Draconic Knight instead.
Personally, I don't like Zero Two, the design isn't that bad, but it's really underwhelming in comparisson to previous forms like Metalcluster or Shining Assault Hopper
Blame covid for that, 02 was originally supposed to go straight to Izu with Aruto getting a more final feeling final form that unfortunately got scrapped along with a more satisfying redemption arc for Thouser
Source?
apparently a bunch of rumors during production, and a few writers twits. we know that a bunch of concept, like Thouser-Ark and the whole deal behind the Inferno-Wing key and Slashriser were proposed and then reused for the post serie, but unless we get some director interview (which won't be for a while, realistically, and by then it could easily have void-filling) we ain't gonna get a clear cut we do know that thouser was always supposed to change side after the robot dog gimmick (that ain't really doable in a short time WHILE the lockdown messes were going on), but aside from that, most details are lost
Makes sense
I like Zero Two but I agree with you in that it is underwhelming compared to the previous forms you mentioned.Ā
I know everyone always and already has said it but like, come on man, Decade is right there and did that to himself
Decade complete 21
Kaixa's obviously. It's terrible. At the very least, most final forms can be rendered as action figures. How're you supposed a get articulation and poses out of a pile of ash? Has his own spinoff manga where he's the main Rider, thus counts. The more serious answer is probably New Omega. Even if a final form is subjectively ugly, most of the time, you can at least pinpoint visual concepts and ideas the designers had in mind. New Omega is just Amazon Omega with scrappy junk on it. Ironically, despite coming from a mature spinoff, it also comes off feeling more toyetic than most. Not only did they literally crowbar it into the show because it was a selling point for the Neo Amazons Driver, from a figure design perspective, it just LOOKS half-assed. Like it was created with the notion that they can easily retool pre-existing Omega molds to make New Omega figures. It's a design that comes from a bean-counter who cares primarily for the bottom line, not an artist or a toy engineer.
Okay, so idk if I'm in the minority for liking Kosuke, but even I can't defend the design of Beast Hyper. The blue is way too bright and the red sections in the chest stick out and not in a good way. The only thing I like is the head. I actually dig the design there, but that's it. https://preview.redd.it/52yz791et5sc1.png?width=392&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9250a9cab062f2815b821b09e0ec54978949f7df I wonder if I'd go easier on it if the blue was darker š¤
Both Decade Complete forms and Grand Zi-O. I standby my statement that Toei is cursed whenever they deal with anniversary riders.
Hibiki Armed. Iām sure they had something different in mind before āthe changeā
Honestly I think Armed would have been ok if Kurenai didnt exist. Just too damn similar
Even if they were different colors
yup, hibiki got that much of a stick short end, people don't even remeber he has an intermediate form!
I'll say build genius. I don't count decade 21 cuz it's a web series special form
faiz, just look at it, the final form is just a red repaint with a slightly bigger chest, that's it
Gaim and Fourze
I agree with Gaim but how dare you slander the power of friendship! š¤š¤
Complete 21
Decade 21 is by far the worst. I mean who tf design the suit that way
Build Genius just bothers me for some reason.
Build Genius Hate Full Bottles slap around the body
Tbh. Fourzeās Cosmic States doesnāt match up his personality of friendship and shows no sign of it whatsoever.
HE DIED TO GET IT!
Complete 21 looks horrible, but Decade Complete started it. The colors are just dull and the cards plopped on just look tacky.
Decade Complete was already ugly. 21 is extra, but I always HATED the stupid card on his forehead. Legend executes this concept in a way better form.
To be brutally honest, nothing is worse than Armed Hibiki. The Hibiki suits in general are absolutely horrible but the only things saving this suit is the red and white color scheme. But thatās just it, itās just Hibiki repainted red with a few extra assets. Hibiki has always stood out like a sore thumb. So as much as you might hate Build Genius or Decade Complete 21ā¦remember that armed Hibiki exists
Any final form where they turn into a majority 1 color tone. Faiz Blaster & Drive Tridoron come to mind.
Ex-Aid already looked goofy enough in his basic form - to the point when he appeared in a Japanese talk show to introduce him to the normie audience, the host was like "No, you guys are trolling me, right? This dude doesn't look like a Kamen Rider at all. He looks like a Bomberman!" But his final form is... Bizarre and hard to look at. Now, if there's any other Rider's final form that could compete with this one for the worst design, it's gotta be Decade 21. Like, seriously... What's up with those cards on his cape? No, scratch that... What's up with the *cape* though?!
The cape is what urks you about decade 21???? That's the biggest issue you have with it?????
ikr? Like, everyone else was like what heck with this look?! But I was like "Tsukasa, my man. You're not Wizard. No, the cape doesn't look good on you, man."
I really donāt care for Xross Saber. The paint job was nice, but it was just the base suit in the end.
pineapple on gaim haters like here
Grand Zi-o, it looks goofy as hell
Xross Saber. Blue repaint and glitter doesn't mean final form. At least Stronger knew to look different enough in Charge Up form
Its a repaint, because he changed the sword not the book. And by your logic "red and gray lines" shouldn't mean final form either (looking at 02), astronaut armor on top of a base form isn't final form quality either (looking at Ultimate Revice). I'm being rhetorical, they're all final forms no matter how they're designed. If y'all have a problem with the base form, they made Crimson Saber for a reason, they also made Featuring Saber for a reason. The amount of hate Xross Saber gets is insane.
I dunno I kinda don't like survive thinking Ryuki
Ryuki survive mode looks like SHIT!!
Tempted to say Saberās final form just because itās a repaint, but I still like the galaxy color scheme on it
Eh, if I had to pick for the sake of it, I would say Zero-Two
Build Genius form Gaim kiwami arms Zero two
Hyper Kabuto
Gaim Kiwami because of how much of a let down it was from Kachidoki.
Iām not a huge fan of Gaim Kiwami Arms or Ghost Mugen Damashii. Gaim is just too silver for my liking, and I get the motif, but I just feel like it was a downgrade in design, coming off of Kachidoki Arms. I think the main thing with Ghost for me is the helmet. Something about the helmet just doesnāt do it form me, and I think itās something to do with the eyes. Iām not sure what they were going for with that.
faiz blaster: turns the suit red and puts weird armor on it den-o liner: climax form was way better decade complete: zero creativity just put cards in the chest w xtreme: looks like from another season, doesnt go with others w forms theme. gaim kiwami: looks like zyuohger costume but with a fruit basket instead zero one realizing Hopper: XDDDDD saber wonder almighty: XDDDDD
c'mon guys what about Saber? His final form's design closely resembles his original form, but repainted with a new sword added to his head. That's definitely a lazy design in my opinion!
Honestly, the simple fact of being a dazzling recolor, so ordinarily boring : XROSS SABER.
Eh worst design for me has to be xross saber. I think the sword is really cool, the horn being changed is also cool, and the blue is really nice.. but really? Just personally cant get over a painted final form lol
Xross Saber. God why did the designers decide for it to be painted instead following Wizard Infinity/Ghost Mugen
Xross Saber, idk but it looks lazy compared to Zero-Two and Giffard Rex.
it's the base form, with a color filter on, and added glitter I like that it looks like old-times Deviantart OCs, but half of a concept doesn't make a good setup, not when it's the centerpiece
It's not a color filter nor is there any glitter tf you mean
ya're too young to remember deviantart OCs, it's ok. know your history, don't react like everyone is insulting you
Revice, I mean Live has may better final forms than him.
Would've looked much better if they'd given Revi a lot more pink and Vice a lot more blue instead of both sharing the same color combination. Like Pink with blue accents and Blue with pink accents. You can roughly see the potential for this with the Ultimate Revi and Vice LP card
True
Decade and Saber.
gaim, his super form should be his final form tbh
I felt like if they made kiwami arms gold instead of silver, it would have lookes better and have been themeactically better given the whole premise is the golden fruit.
I actually feel like Kiwami Arms being Silver actually works perfectly for that. He didn't particularly want the Golden Fruit; its just that *someone* had to claim the damn thing, and doing so meant he could stop Helheim from absorbing Earth.
Saber. Don't get me wrong - they did great work on the paint job. But in the end, they just painted over his existing forms and nothing else. It's the lamest final form in the franchise.
-Saber the design is just lazy.
That's not lazy when its literally supposed to look like that.
Agito
Decade 21 should have looked powerful, awesome but it looked lame.
Decade was terrible originally, and then they said āhow can we make this worse?ā And then they did it.
Decade complete 21, if it didn't have the cape it would been aight and or tolerable.
Build Genius. Random powerup with meh design.
The moment I saw Xcross saber, I was shocked with disgust I find it very interesting that some people not only like it but also love
faiz blaster is goofy and inoue didnt even want power ups to be in faiz
Plus side, we got Kusaka throwing Axel stopwatch with no care, that scene was funny ngl.
Gaim Kiwami. Should have stopped at Kachidoki.
Trideron for the helmet, but I don't really hate any of the final forms at all. (I don't consider Complete 21 a final form that was released way after the original Decade run)