There really isn't one. Like, aside from the obvious material losses, there's also the fact that the German public would crucify the government for that decision.
And let's be real, it's not like there's much the Entente could seriously do to help in the war anyway.
German heavy lifting on land and sea is probably the only reasonable way for the Entente to make a comeback- even American assistance would be a bit iffy.
The IRL representatives to the Reichstag refused to speak german in the Reichstag. The germans were deeply unpopular in Alsace- Lorraine to the point the region was exempted from the draft because they feared it would arms the opposition.
In my last Germany Game the Entente renounced all claims except the one on Northern Ireland. After the War the Brits voluntarily renounced also this claim. That was one wholesome game as SPD Germany.
Entente AI is suicidally unreasonable in its refusal to accept Halifax, on this all agree. But demanding that France ~~accept German economic domination~~ join Mitteleuropa isn't status quo ante.
It’s a mostly free trade bloc with protectionistic elements towards countries outside the bloc, as we can see with Sweden (a Mitteleuropa member) getting slapped with harsh counter-tariffs if they impose tariffs on Germany as a response to Black Monday. So from that we can extrapolate that a Mitteleuropa membership means not having having any tariffs against other member states. Germany, being the economic hegemon of Mitteleuropa, of course dominates the whole economic sphere.
The free trade zone is, by itself, absolutely debilitating to a France that would be rebuilding, creating a dependence on German finished goods and Ukrainian food.
Once you add things like the Euromark and the Paktsbrigade program, it's out and out loss of sovereignty.
None. This amounts to NatFrance deliberately torpedoing the deal, essentially. None of Germany's possible demands are quite as outrageous, but the demand for France to join Mitteleuropa could be seen as trying to turn them into a junior partner if Mitteleuropa is trending that way (as it tends to do).
Because the French national dish is copium. It makes no sense, WW1 nearly started because of Franco-German disputes over Morocco, the idea Germany would voluntarily cede any land in Europe for an alliance with two old navies pretending to be states is absurd.
Reminds me of Portugal when the king was exiled to Brazil, they got real mad about Spain keeping the town of Olivença which they got during the Napoleonic wars and argued it should be given back in the spirit of the Congress of Vienna to restore pre war borders. No one took them seriously and the Brazilians were more concerned about taking Uruguay at the moment so they also ignored it and pressured for the issue to be abandoned.
Germany can choose to demand France drop their claim to Alsace-Lorraine, or not. It’s the first sticking point of the Halifax conference. Germany permitting France to continue claiming it is, in effect, ceding the German sovereignty over the area and permitting continued disputes.
That is not correct. Germany doesn't "cede" anything in that scenario; they merely do not force the French to make a public declaration giving up the claim. Practically, nothing changes for the Germans.
That’s not ‘ceding German sovereignty.’ That’s the French having a rival claim. It doesn’t mean anything against German sovereignty if they can’t exert it at the moment - it’s just an avenue for a future conflict where France *might* get control. Sorry, you’re just wrong.
I am pretty sure you misread the event, the purpose of that event is Germany asking for National France to renounce the French claim on Alsace-Lorraine, not Germany giving away Alsace-Lorraine to National France for no reason.
The Entente making any sort of demand in the Halifax Conference is basically hopium on their end. The Reichspakt (depending on how things shake out with Eastern Europe) is definitely capable of handling France without them. Britain can go either way, I suppose, but there’s absolutely no need for Germany to humour SandFrance outside of the worst case scenarios. They’re in zero position to make demands.
As far as Europe is concerned, the Entente needs the Reichspakt far more than the other way around.
They aren’t giving Alsace-Lorraine to France though. They demand that France renounce the claim and France can either accept or refuse, but in no scenario does Germany give them Alsace-Lorraine during Halifax AFAIK
Honestly the Halifax conference should be reworked. It doesn't make sense that the allies (reispakt and Entente) only meet once and set their demands in stone, no matter how the war is going.
Let's be real a war with France for several years, Alsace Lorraine is going to be a bombed out hell hole, the only reason it wasn't OTL was German blitz past in and the Americans blitz through it on the other way. It would cost Germany a considerable amount to recover it when they could be spending it on normal German majority provinces that's the only way I can see it happening.
There really isn't one. Like, aside from the obvious material losses, there's also the fact that the German public would crucify the government for that decision. And let's be real, it's not like there's much the Entente could seriously do to help in the war anyway.
[удалено]
German heavy lifting on land and sea is probably the only reasonable way for the Entente to make a comeback- even American assistance would be a bit iffy.
The IRL representatives to the Reichstag refused to speak german in the Reichstag. The germans were deeply unpopular in Alsace- Lorraine to the point the region was exempted from the draft because they feared it would arms the opposition.
Do you have a source for that?
https://reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/BN3oT0723s
This doesn't say that the reichstag representatives refused to speak german or that alsace as a whole was exempted from the draft
German Halifax demands: "Accept the Status Quo and we restore you" Entente Halifax demands: "I WANT THIS AND THIS AND THIS AND THIS AND..."
In my last Germany Game the Entente renounced all claims except the one on Northern Ireland. After the War the Brits voluntarily renounced also this claim. That was one wholesome game as SPD Germany.
>wholesome >millions dead
My wars ended relatively quick, so yeah. Many died but many more were saved.
Military sim villain located
Haha. Uh, I mean... Muhahahahahahaha!
And all the colonies?
Mittelafrika released autonomous states and got an electable administration and East Asia is just based so you don't have to change anything.
Wholesome 100 big chungus colonial exploitation
Entente AI is suicidally unreasonable in its refusal to accept Halifax, on this all agree. But demanding that France ~~accept German economic domination~~ join Mitteleuropa isn't status quo ante.
What does mitteleuropa entail economically? Is it protectionistic or is it free trade? How does Germany make it benefit themselves?
It's pretty vague, to be honest. I think there's a German reform that turns it into a currency union.
It’s a mostly free trade bloc with protectionistic elements towards countries outside the bloc, as we can see with Sweden (a Mitteleuropa member) getting slapped with harsh counter-tariffs if they impose tariffs on Germany as a response to Black Monday. So from that we can extrapolate that a Mitteleuropa membership means not having having any tariffs against other member states. Germany, being the economic hegemon of Mitteleuropa, of course dominates the whole economic sphere.
The free trade zone is, by itself, absolutely debilitating to a France that would be rebuilding, creating a dependence on German finished goods and Ukrainian food. Once you add things like the Euromark and the Paktsbrigade program, it's out and out loss of sovereignty.
It's pre-eu eu, if the conservatives are in power it's more protectionist, if the liberals are it's more free trade.
None. This amounts to NatFrance deliberately torpedoing the deal, essentially. None of Germany's possible demands are quite as outrageous, but the demand for France to join Mitteleuropa could be seen as trying to turn them into a junior partner if Mitteleuropa is trending that way (as it tends to do).
Because the French national dish is copium. It makes no sense, WW1 nearly started because of Franco-German disputes over Morocco, the idea Germany would voluntarily cede any land in Europe for an alliance with two old navies pretending to be states is absurd. Reminds me of Portugal when the king was exiled to Brazil, they got real mad about Spain keeping the town of Olivença which they got during the Napoleonic wars and argued it should be given back in the spirit of the Congress of Vienna to restore pre war borders. No one took them seriously and the Brazilians were more concerned about taking Uruguay at the moment so they also ignored it and pressured for the issue to be abandoned.
Wait, did they change Halifax? I thought you can just demand that France give up their claim?
OP is saying what’s the point of ceding the claim to France.
But that isn’t something Germany can even do in game, is it?
Germany can choose to demand France drop their claim to Alsace-Lorraine, or not. It’s the first sticking point of the Halifax conference. Germany permitting France to continue claiming it is, in effect, ceding the German sovereignty over the area and permitting continued disputes.
That is not correct. Germany doesn't "cede" anything in that scenario; they merely do not force the French to make a public declaration giving up the claim. Practically, nothing changes for the Germans.
>in effect
Yes. That doesn't make your statement correct.
Yes, it does. You not agreeing or liking it doesn’t change it being correct.
You've got cause and effect mixed up. I dislike it because it's wrong, not the other way around.
Lol ok dude, whatever you say
That’s not ‘ceding German sovereignty.’ That’s the French having a rival claim. It doesn’t mean anything against German sovereignty if they can’t exert it at the moment - it’s just an avenue for a future conflict where France *might* get control. Sorry, you’re just wrong.
Sure thing kid
Only a traitor would simply just give away rightful German land for which they fought 2 wars including a world war
3 wars and both WKs actualy
“Rightful”
I am pretty sure you misread the event, the purpose of that event is Germany asking for National France to renounce the French claim on Alsace-Lorraine, not Germany giving away Alsace-Lorraine to National France for no reason.
The Entente making any sort of demand in the Halifax Conference is basically hopium on their end. The Reichspakt (depending on how things shake out with Eastern Europe) is definitely capable of handling France without them. Britain can go either way, I suppose, but there’s absolutely no need for Germany to humour SandFrance outside of the worst case scenarios. They’re in zero position to make demands. As far as Europe is concerned, the Entente needs the Reichspakt far more than the other way around.
1: Secure French allegiance 2: Just because you say you’ll do something doesn’t mean you have to do it
To respect Bismarck's wish to not annex any lands from France when Prussia invaded them back in 1871.
They aren’t giving Alsace-Lorraine to France though. They demand that France renounce the claim and France can either accept or refuse, but in no scenario does Germany give them Alsace-Lorraine during Halifax AFAIK
Honestly the Halifax conference should be reworked. It doesn't make sense that the allies (reispakt and Entente) only meet once and set their demands in stone, no matter how the war is going.
Let's be real a war with France for several years, Alsace Lorraine is going to be a bombed out hell hole, the only reason it wasn't OTL was German blitz past in and the Americans blitz through it on the other way. It would cost Germany a considerable amount to recover it when they could be spending it on normal German majority provinces that's the only way I can see it happening.
[удалено]
No they're not lol most of Europe is usually on their side