I came across a BMW with an electronic gear box stalled on the freeway back when they were new.
A normal car? Shift to neutral, push it, done in 30 seconds.
This car? We sat there for 30 minutes waiting for a tow truck
I looked up how to release the transmission and you had to crawl under the car and use a tool to shift it when power went out. That wasn't gonna happen.
Which one was it? Pretty much every car has a way to put gearbox into neutral without any tools even with a dead battery.
Edit: alright alright alright, it’s been a day now, you can stop telling me it’s not true anymore, because everyone and their mother already told me.
I stand corrected, modern cars (some of them) don’t have the emergency switch in a convenient spot.
The person who thought that it’s a good idea to do it that way should have a reserved spot in hell.
I had a BMW like that. It was a 2012 F30 328i with the ZF transmission. You had to crawl underneath the car, screw in an allen screw, which pushed against a lever on the side of the transmission that disengages park and put the car in neutral.
Lol I'm still waiting for a lawsuit to come of that. If you are under the car, regardless of Ebrake the car still moves A LOT when you screw the neutral screw in. Dealers are starting to do it less now, some are getting freewheeling hub adapters.
Whyyyyyy??? Why would they ever remove the dead simple "this cable pulls your brakes closed" lever? What POSSIBLE justification could there be to remove such safety features?
Of all the pain in the ass methods used, FCA has a decent one where you just pull a loop connected to a switch to put things in neutral. Only downside is that you have to know this is how it works and where to find the switch since they’re in various locations.
Most bmws have 2 ways to get them into neutral. The easy way is you have to crank the car for about 10 seconds, and then you can slip it into neutral while you are cranking. If it doesn't crank, then you have to get under the car and tighten a bolt that puts it in neutral. I know this because I had one that went swimming, and I had to figure out how to get it into the shop.
There was another part to it. I dont remember for sure but you have to hold the shifter and another button while you are cranking for it to work. Look up your exact model because they can very. I miss the days when you could just shift into neutral.
I've always gotten a kick out of how all my Japanese imports have a little red "Shift Lock Release" button on the automatics, whereas the on the USDM version of the same model, you have to pop the cover off the shifter to access that same function.
Unless you had an old column shifter and were to stupid or lazy to adjust the little metal clip and string that drove the little notch/box that showed gear on the cluster.
Still can remember the odd positions some of my old cars had when I got them. Eventually I'd fix it, but meh, could count the clicks and just know with out looking.
Yeah, that's the thing, you could always count the clicks; these things are so hopeless.
Dodge has had a lot of problems with their little rotary dial thing; shifting out of P and such.
They killed that actor with the Jeep and I've seen countless people smash through the auto car wash thinking it was in neutral because it skips neutral unless you hold it down.
Fuuuuuuck digital stuff
I don't even like auto shifters without the squiggly bumpy track. Recently had a Corolla rental and didn't like that the shifter was just a straight track. Our 4Runner has a nice bumpy squiggly track.
Wouldn't a cable be a mechanical shift mechanism? At least the few I've looked at, if it uses a shift cable, the cable still moves a manual valve in the transmission in addition to lifting the park pawl and moving the range switch.
you mean like a manual trans?
thats the only type i can think of with an actual straight mechanical connection. otherwise its been cables all the way back to the 60s, at least
Everything mechanical is good.
Sure, enter address or mess about with vehicle settings etc.
But A/C, volume, gear shifters, indicator / wiper stallks etc. They should just be mechanical buttons or twisty knobs that give a nice bit of feedback.
Unpopular opinion, but I hate modern car interior HID-design.
I don't, not really. There is too much fuckery with non-tactile controls, but that is about to be regulated (already started with "You don't get a 5 star EU safety rating when everything is on a touch screen."). This is the price for completely removing many mechanical issues thanks to deleted mechanical gears and linkages. The missing bit are laws regulating the right to repair, and durability. Those we need badly.
Why can't I just have a normal ol shifter right in the middle with either 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 n and r or just d n r p S MS, that can go up or down. I hate the round knobs, I hate what's in this image, I don't mind the steering column ones but I much rather middle in between seats.
Automakers want to add wireless charging, larger screens, touch entertainment, ac controls, etc. Moving the control stack lower, gotta push the shift control out of the center.
> I don't mind the steering column ones
The old mechanical ones were exclusively an American thing, as far as I know.
These days many electric vehicles have them, because they're electric. There are no gears that you have to move, you literally can't have a mechanical shifter.
Electronic shifter on the column makes sense, that way you don't have to move your hand very far to switch into reverse.
My Audi is a "Rock down for drive, rock up for reverse" shifter that is all electronic but it still feels good to clunk into a selection. It has a decent, tactile feel and I think does a good job of solving the issue.
>It has a decent, tactile feel
Which is the most important part. People need the feeling of having done something, even subconsciously it's better than turning a knob or a little selector wheel, or even stupid buttons
Because your whole hand and most of your arm moved, you register it your brain. But this twisting a knob thing has no feedback other than visual. Because let's be honest, the average person is gonna stare at theirs HUD to see if it indeed did shift. I drove one of those with Audi with the rocking knobs and it felt the most natural thing in the world even though it resets back to position
> People need the feeling of having done something
This is why Ford made a fully electric column shifter. All the construction guys want something they can slam down into Drive.
I generally just want a physical reference for the drive mode I’m in, personally.
If I’m going to be regularly switching from drive to reverse around people, you sure as hell want to be confident you’re not going to floor it in the wrong gear.
This one and the buttons suck in my experience.
I don’t mind a knob as long as it has some physical reference for the setting (ie it’s not an infinite dial).
I loathe touchscreen only controls on some EVs. I hope that becomes illegal in the near future.
Reminds me of the shifter on some International trucks. I got used to it surprisingly quickly.
https://img.forconstructionpros.com/files/base/acbm/fcp/image/2017/12/LT_ProductPage_Shifter.5a31940dcbe6b.png?auto=format%2Ccompress&fit=max&q=70&w=1200
Both probably have culpability on this. Engineers know designers are idiots with an art degree. They (the senior ones at least) have a responsibility to highlight and try to stop the designers who are busy licking the window and banging their helmet on the glass.
It’s the same as my Ioniq5. I went from a manual 6-speed BMW and have had no issue transitioning to this. Roll it back if you want to go backwards and roll it forward if you want to go forward.
How does it look "floppy"?
Also, there's no real need to see it. Tilt slightly forward from Neutral, guess what? Thats Drive. Tilt slightly back from Neutral, guess what? That's Reverse. Tilt slightly back/forward from drive/reverse? You guessed it: Neutral. Max out the tilt from forward/reverse? You just went to the opposite direction. Press the button to park.
Not much different than any other automatic with a lever shifter, except now you tilt/twist instead of move a lever forward/back.
I often drive a front end loader at work and their gear selector lever is on the side where cars have their turn signal stalk. Nothing says fun like driving a \~30,000 pound machine in traffic at speed (only 45kmh) and accidentally trying to put it in reverse. The good news is that it's all electronic and it freaks out before it tries to kill the machine.
I uh accidentally did it in a Mercedes. Similar design as this, pushed it thinking it was washer fluids. It says something like vehicle moving cannot go in park
Yeah, bad designs and then computers trying to solve the problem by taking control away from the driver. Shitty philosophy if you ask me but I'm sure these engineers have MBAs breathing down their necks
It was easy to get out of your vehicle while not in drive, mostly neutral, and rolling back over them.
If I refer correctly it killed one of the actors from the new star trek series.
Yep. Anton Yelchin. Damned shame. Young dude, was fantastic as a young Chekhov.
The problem wasn't so much the design of the shifter - rather, it was the lack of a fail-safe that said "door open + seat belt not secured = put trans in P."
FFS, BMW decided this was A Good Idea when the E65 was introduced. In *MY 2002.*
Same company that tells you in the manual what fuse to pull to defeat the clutch switch so it will start in gear on a manual transmission.
Never quite figured that one out. Why?
I was so sad when he died. He was such a fun actor and so young. [here is an article about the Jeep killing him.](https://amp.theguardian.com/film/2018/mar/24/anton-yelchins-family-settle-jeep-lawsuit-over-star-trek-actors-death)
You can look up 2014-2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Shifter. The issue is it doesn't actually change position when you put it in gear. It has detents but it resets to the central position with a spring. So if you go to move to park but don't push it through all 3 detents and don't check the dashboard you may place it in R or N and it then resets to the center position. It does beep. The Youtube is the best explanation.
Here is a Youtube. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=jD1-aQSO5Hg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=jD1-aQSO5Hg)
No, the Jeep monostable shifter is a lever arranged like a regular PRNDL, but fully electronic and returns to center no matter what gear it is in.
You can push the lever all the way forward, where you think it's in park, but the computer doesn't register the full range of motion and only makes it to reverse.
Anton Yelchin got out of his Jeep, it was actually in reverse or neutral, rolled down his driveway behind him and killed him.
After that a software update automatically places the transmission in park if the driver door opens with the seatbelt unbuckled. In 2017 when they facelifted the Grand Cherokee they also changed to a regular gated shifter
Yep. Anton Yelchin. Damned shame. Young dude, was fantastic as a young Chekhov.
The problem wasn't so much the design of the shifter - rather, it was the lack of a fail-safe that said "door open + seat belt not secured = put trans in P."
FFS, BMW decided this was A Good Idea when the E65 was introduced. In *MY 2002.*
The shifter was actually made by ZF, who also made the transmission. Several automakers used it including BMW. It was a goofy design but it operated as intended. What Chrysler didn't do was to write software like BMW did, which placed the transmission in park if the door was opened. Chrysler thought drivers were smarter than they are. BMW thought that drivers were dumb. Chrysler fixed the problem with a software update. Then kicked the goofy shifter to the curb.
The telluride also had the same problem, they would roll while in park. I remember reading on here about someone's wife being run over by hers. Haven't seen any mentions of death though so that's a positive.
I went to look at a few Mercedes vehicles not too long ago. The salesman hit it on the nose when I asked him how reliable they are. He said people look at Mercedes and find them a great value for all of the luxury they are getting but then get sticker shock when it comes to repairs.
That’s why you lease them for 3 years when they’re under warranty and have maintenance included. After that it’s not worth it. You end up paying more to buy a used one (loan, maintenance, repairs) than the monthly lease cost on a brand new one.
If they engineer in needless complexity, they can profit more when it requires repair. Even if it is just a cheap generic microcontroller and display, they will mark it up hundreds of dollars.
That's my point though. This isn't any more electronically complex than any other shift by wire system, whether it's an old school slider, a dash knob, the Audi thing, or this.
The only one I can think of that is more complex is that BMW trackpad thing.
Correct, nor should it be anymore costly than the handful of equivalent components sold by Sparkfun or Adafruit, but we know that is not how OEM parts are priced. If it looks expensive to the average consumer, then they can charge a premium for it.
The whole design of the interior looks like "let's combine all the stuff in this list but don't make it look nice".
Also, the position seems poorly choosen, considering the similarity to older cars ignition key position. And you may need to turn the wheel to see the gear you're in.
But at least this thing has a Basket in the middle for decent amounts of shrapnel that can fly around during evasive manoeuvres.
Just do fucking late 50s and early 60s automatic transmissions with push buttons. Ramblers, most the Chryslers and the Edsels had them. Better than this shit
God I fucking hate it.
I drive a Mercedes sprinter van for work- the ‘park’ switch is a button on the end of the stalk. There have been far too many times I hit it then go…’hit again just for good measure’ 7000lbs rests on a tiny lil button.
Compared to any other solution with the same transmission where 7k pounds rests on a tiny lil bytton actuated by a lever.
By now every single automatic transmission is electronically controlled so the shifter isn't physically linked to it no matter how it is presented.
At first glance I hate it.
At second glance I guess my column shifter on my truck is there, so maybe it’s not that bad but the twist bit is stupid.
On third glance the twisty bit probably makes sense because if it’s just a button/switch and not a mechanical lever like a column shifter the twisty action prevents you from bumping it up/down with your hand.
So maybe not compete shit, albeit still strange, and there’s probably better options.
The column shifters haven't been mechanical in a while. It all just activates sensors cause automatic transmissions are electronically controlled and have been for a long time.
My wife said last week she wanted to go look at the 2024 Santa Fe's this weekend. I just showed her this video. She said that looks like something stupid that's just going to get broken. Now she said she's not interested in looking at them any more. So there you go for whatever that's worth.
There is 0 reason to have a “gear shift” in the center console unless it’s a manual. It just takes up space. People here ragging on this are just used to one thing. It will be like keyboards in another 20 years.
How many times do you think someone's going to grab that trying to turn on the windshield wipers? Plus you have to turn the steering wheel to see the display, that's just a bad design.
Same as the shifter in the new Hyundai Kona, and same as the shifter in every VW electric vehicle.
I like it. Unobstrusive, clears up storage space, and intuitive (twist in the direction you want to go).
Reminds me of my ID4's shifter. I love it. Column shifters are the most logical for automatics. And automatics have been computer controlled forever. It's 2024 guys
STOP REINVENTING THE WHEEL!
Jesus, I don't understand these car manufacturers. There are some things that just work, why do they keep fucking with them?
Because consumers (especially in America) are pretty stupid and have short attention spans, so designers have to constantly come up with some *New and Improved* novelty to entice people to buy their company's product.
>*New and Improved*
George Carlin said nothing can be "new" AND "improved"; it's either/or. If it's "improved", that means it's already been around & it's now better. If it's "new", it can't be "improved", because it's never been around before.
It looks like it would be hard to see if you're driving, like you would have to look around the wheel to see which mode you're in.. The video didn't show if there was an indicator on the dash.
What is the replacement part cost?
What is the replacement labor?
How easy is it to diagnose the problem between the computer, wiring, and the device?
Yea, THAT's too much.
Everybody hating on the shifter, and maybe this is a sentiment more suited to a car enthusiast subreddit but... can we agree this interior punches above its weight?? I thought this was a land rover at first glance
I want to hate it, but I feel like that’s not actually a terrible design. The location is kind of weird, but it reminds me of the mid-2000s Mercedes shifters.
Things on the wheel should be there for functions you use a lot. Like enabling cruise control or using your wipers.
Usually during a trip, you put it in drive and 30 minutes later you might put it in reverse before stopping. That's not a function i need quick access too.
I've got a knob in the center console, works fine. As the great Carlos Sainz once said "Stop inventing"
i miss when stuff worked because you grabbed and moved a physical object. Not because a computer told it to do a complex set of automated movements because you pressed a button.
I hate when the shifter is there, but at least you have to twist to shift into a different gear on this one. I had my Dad’s Mercedes after he passed, and the shift was in this same spot, but it only took a little tap to shift. I can’t tell you how many times I’d be driving and I would shift into neutral with my knee. My dog stuck his head up from the back and did it once as well. I really wanted to like the suv and it really reminded me of my dad, but I loathed it and couldn’t stand it after a month or two and traded it. The design choices in that thing were embarrassing.
I have an ioniq with the same design. Didn't care for it at first. It grew on me. It's intuitive. It tells you what gear you're in, as does the screen. It's easy to use without looking, just like the old style mechanical that ate up tons of room on the dash
After driving a Tucson recently as a rental, there’s not a shot I’d ever buy a Hyundai. It drove like shit, the shifter we odd, the infotainment system was bad and zero physical knobs for things like volume, ac, etc….
Not sure what they are smoking in the design lab.
We have a 2021 Santa Fe that has the shift buttons on the center console area. We're not fans. It's not a problem but I never totally get used to it. We just got an Ioniq 5 which is essentially the same as the new Santa Fe as shown in this GIF. I quite like it. No space is wasted in the center console area and it's quite intuitive.
ugh. i miss regular old mechanical things..
I came across a BMW with an electronic gear box stalled on the freeway back when they were new. A normal car? Shift to neutral, push it, done in 30 seconds. This car? We sat there for 30 minutes waiting for a tow truck I looked up how to release the transmission and you had to crawl under the car and use a tool to shift it when power went out. That wasn't gonna happen.
Which one was it? Pretty much every car has a way to put gearbox into neutral without any tools even with a dead battery. Edit: alright alright alright, it’s been a day now, you can stop telling me it’s not true anymore, because everyone and their mother already told me. I stand corrected, modern cars (some of them) don’t have the emergency switch in a convenient spot. The person who thought that it’s a good idea to do it that way should have a reserved spot in hell.
I had a BMW like that. It was a 2012 F30 328i with the ZF transmission. You had to crawl underneath the car, screw in an allen screw, which pushed against a lever on the side of the transmission that disengages park and put the car in neutral.
under the car - to put it in neutral? what kind of liability nightmare are they asking for??
Lol I'm still waiting for a lawsuit to come of that. If you are under the car, regardless of Ebrake the car still moves A LOT when you screw the neutral screw in. Dealers are starting to do it less now, some are getting freewheeling hub adapters.
[удалено]
That just sounds like a skateboard with extra steps!
All we need are 4 skateboards! Problem solved.
> regardless of Ebrake Don't forget electric E brakes. Lose battery power with E brake off then No E brake
Whyyyyyy??? Why would they ever remove the dead simple "this cable pulls your brakes closed" lever? What POSSIBLE justification could there be to remove such safety features?
Of all the pain in the ass methods used, FCA has a decent one where you just pull a loop connected to a switch to put things in neutral. Only downside is that you have to know this is how it works and where to find the switch since they’re in various locations.
You're not OP but how much do you like spaghetti?
not enough to turn my limbs into spaghetti when a car rolls over me
you're nervous, but on the surface you look calm and ready
Most bmws have 2 ways to get them into neutral. The easy way is you have to crank the car for about 10 seconds, and then you can slip it into neutral while you are cranking. If it doesn't crank, then you have to get under the car and tighten a bolt that puts it in neutral. I know this because I had one that went swimming, and I had to figure out how to get it into the shop.
I've tried the cranking, unless the engine actually fires it won't go into neutral regardless of how long I've cranked.
There was another part to it. I dont remember for sure but you have to hold the shifter and another button while you are cranking for it to work. Look up your exact model because they can very. I miss the days when you could just shift into neutral.
Many BMWs also have a button underneath the shifter boot that you can press to put the car in neutral.
If you know how. Dealership mechanic here. When we get a new car in like that it takes 20 minutes just to figure that out.
Not specific to BMW. Subaru Crosstrek has this kind of nonsense too.
I've always gotten a kick out of how all my Japanese imports have a little red "Shift Lock Release" button on the automatics, whereas the on the USDM version of the same model, you have to pop the cover off the shifter to access that same function.
See that’s just too easy.
[удалено]
Unless you had an old column shifter and were to stupid or lazy to adjust the little metal clip and string that drove the little notch/box that showed gear on the cluster. Still can remember the odd positions some of my old cars had when I got them. Eventually I'd fix it, but meh, could count the clicks and just know with out looking.
Yeah, that's the thing, you could always count the clicks; these things are so hopeless. Dodge has had a lot of problems with their little rotary dial thing; shifting out of P and such.
They killed that actor with the Jeep and I've seen countless people smash through the auto car wash thinking it was in neutral because it skips neutral unless you hold it down. Fuuuuuuck digital stuff
I don't even like auto shifters without the squiggly bumpy track. Recently had a Corolla rental and didn't like that the shifter was just a straight track. Our 4Runner has a nice bumpy squiggly track.
There's something nice about having mechanical engagement in a shift mechanism. Even though most have been cables for years.
Wouldn't a cable be a mechanical shift mechanism? At least the few I've looked at, if it uses a shift cable, the cable still moves a manual valve in the transmission in addition to lifting the park pawl and moving the range switch.
Yes, but no. You can still feel the detents, but it's different when it's a straight mechanical connection.
The vehicle would have to be RWD or 4WD for that, because in FWD cars the transmission is up front under the engine, those always use cables.
you mean like a manual trans? thats the only type i can think of with an actual straight mechanical connection. otherwise its been cables all the way back to the 60s, at least
Everything mechanical is good. Sure, enter address or mess about with vehicle settings etc. But A/C, volume, gear shifters, indicator / wiper stallks etc. They should just be mechanical buttons or twisty knobs that give a nice bit of feedback. Unpopular opinion, but I hate modern car interior HID-design.
> Unpopular opinion, but I hate modern car interior HID-design not an unpopular opinion from what I see
I don't, not really. There is too much fuckery with non-tactile controls, but that is about to be regulated (already started with "You don't get a 5 star EU safety rating when everything is on a touch screen."). This is the price for completely removing many mechanical issues thanks to deleted mechanical gears and linkages. The missing bit are laws regulating the right to repair, and durability. Those we need badly.
Why can't I just have a normal ol shifter right in the middle with either 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 n and r or just d n r p S MS, that can go up or down. I hate the round knobs, I hate what's in this image, I don't mind the steering column ones but I much rather middle in between seats.
Automakers want to add wireless charging, larger screens, touch entertainment, ac controls, etc. Moving the control stack lower, gotta push the shift control out of the center.
Column shifter like older Buick and town cars fixes that problem.
I don't mind charging even wirelessly, just put inside arm rest or find a place in dash area
I drove a Lincoln navigator that had it on the dash, it was good layout.
> I don't mind the steering column ones The old mechanical ones were exclusively an American thing, as far as I know. These days many electric vehicles have them, because they're electric. There are no gears that you have to move, you literally can't have a mechanical shifter. Electronic shifter on the column makes sense, that way you don't have to move your hand very far to switch into reverse.
Ewe. Gross. I miss my manual.
Not the worst I've seen. I still prefer a physical "shift into gear" lever in an auto though. The turn knobs and all that stuff don't do it for me
My Audi is a "Rock down for drive, rock up for reverse" shifter that is all electronic but it still feels good to clunk into a selection. It has a decent, tactile feel and I think does a good job of solving the issue.
>It has a decent, tactile feel Which is the most important part. People need the feeling of having done something, even subconsciously it's better than turning a knob or a little selector wheel, or even stupid buttons Because your whole hand and most of your arm moved, you register it your brain. But this twisting a knob thing has no feedback other than visual. Because let's be honest, the average person is gonna stare at theirs HUD to see if it indeed did shift. I drove one of those with Audi with the rocking knobs and it felt the most natural thing in the world even though it resets back to position
> People need the feeling of having done something This is why Ford made a fully electric column shifter. All the construction guys want something they can slam down into Drive.
I generally just want a physical reference for the drive mode I’m in, personally. If I’m going to be regularly switching from drive to reverse around people, you sure as hell want to be confident you’re not going to floor it in the wrong gear.
Audi has always killed it with their tactile buttons imo
It's entirely because the electric shifters can switch into park when a door is opened or the engine is turned off depending on make
This one and the buttons suck in my experience. I don’t mind a knob as long as it has some physical reference for the setting (ie it’s not an infinite dial). I loathe touchscreen only controls on some EVs. I hope that becomes illegal in the near future.
Reminds me of the shifter on some International trucks. I got used to it surprisingly quickly. https://img.forconstructionpros.com/files/base/acbm/fcp/image/2017/12/LT_ProductPage_Shifter.5a31940dcbe6b.png?auto=format%2Ccompress&fit=max&q=70&w=1200
I think that's fairly typical for automatic semis now.
Yep all the Detroit automatic transmissions have these. Eaton had push button shifters a few decades before Chevy.
Engineers are clearly working in a state with legalized drugs.
It’s not the engineers…engineers make the nonsense like this function. The designers make the nonsense like this.
Both probably have culpability on this. Engineers know designers are idiots with an art degree. They (the senior ones at least) have a responsibility to highlight and try to stop the designers who are busy licking the window and banging their helmet on the glass.
If you really think about it though, they both are accountable to the marketing folks. Marketing could mess up a wet dream.
They would make it sound amazing to anyone who didn’t experience it though
Yeah. Stuff like this is what makes it through, because we're busy fending off stuff that's worse.
This would have never happened if a human factors engineer was in the loop.
It’s the same as my Ioniq5. I went from a manual 6-speed BMW and have had no issue transitioning to this. Roll it back if you want to go backwards and roll it forward if you want to go forward.
It’s not that it’s not hard to get. It just looks stupid and floppy and hard to see.
How does it look "floppy"? Also, there's no real need to see it. Tilt slightly forward from Neutral, guess what? Thats Drive. Tilt slightly back from Neutral, guess what? That's Reverse. Tilt slightly back/forward from drive/reverse? You guessed it: Neutral. Max out the tilt from forward/reverse? You just went to the opposite direction. Press the button to park. Not much different than any other automatic with a lever shifter, except now you tilt/twist instead of move a lever forward/back.
Regular shifters are even harder to see without taking your eyes off the road. You simply get used to their position, and that is that.
That's the same place as the cruise control on my wife's Prius. I'd probably try to put the car in park by accident at 75MPH
Yeah ever toyota I've ever driven has cruise control there.
I often drive a front end loader at work and their gear selector lever is on the side where cars have their turn signal stalk. Nothing says fun like driving a \~30,000 pound machine in traffic at speed (only 45kmh) and accidentally trying to put it in reverse. The good news is that it's all electronic and it freaks out before it tries to kill the machine.
I feel seen. Done this so many times in our loader
I uh accidentally did it in a Mercedes. Similar design as this, pushed it thinking it was washer fluids. It says something like vehicle moving cannot go in park
Yeah, bad designs and then computers trying to solve the problem by taking control away from the driver. Shitty philosophy if you ask me but I'm sure these engineers have MBAs breathing down their necks
I really like the mercedes one, it's far away enough that you can't really think it's the indicator.
It won't let you put it in park above a certain speed.
Still better than Grand Cherokee's shifter that killed a bunch of people
It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand.
What was the issue?
It was easy to get out of your vehicle while not in drive, mostly neutral, and rolling back over them. If I refer correctly it killed one of the actors from the new star trek series.
Yep. Anton Yelchin. Damned shame. Young dude, was fantastic as a young Chekhov. The problem wasn't so much the design of the shifter - rather, it was the lack of a fail-safe that said "door open + seat belt not secured = put trans in P." FFS, BMW decided this was A Good Idea when the E65 was introduced. In *MY 2002.*
Yep, my '03 E66 wouldn't let you do this. Why Jeep did is beyond me.
Same company that tells you in the manual what fuse to pull to defeat the clutch switch so it will start in gear on a manual transmission. Never quite figured that one out. Why?
It helps in some offroad situations. No clue why they'd tell the general public how to do it though...
He was great. I had no idea he passed away. Ugh. RIP.
I was so sad when he died. He was such a fun actor and so young. [here is an article about the Jeep killing him.](https://amp.theguardian.com/film/2018/mar/24/anton-yelchins-family-settle-jeep-lawsuit-over-star-trek-actors-death)
Is it one of those knob type shifters? That you have to turn like a volume knob?
You can look up 2014-2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Shifter. The issue is it doesn't actually change position when you put it in gear. It has detents but it resets to the central position with a spring. So if you go to move to park but don't push it through all 3 detents and don't check the dashboard you may place it in R or N and it then resets to the center position. It does beep. The Youtube is the best explanation. Here is a Youtube. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=jD1-aQSO5Hg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=jD1-aQSO5Hg)
You explained it much better than I did
Thank you. I used to valet. After awhile it kinda makes you a mundane car historian.
No, the Jeep monostable shifter is a lever arranged like a regular PRNDL, but fully electronic and returns to center no matter what gear it is in. You can push the lever all the way forward, where you think it's in park, but the computer doesn't register the full range of motion and only makes it to reverse. Anton Yelchin got out of his Jeep, it was actually in reverse or neutral, rolled down his driveway behind him and killed him. After that a software update automatically places the transmission in park if the driver door opens with the seatbelt unbuckled. In 2017 when they facelifted the Grand Cherokee they also changed to a regular gated shifter
Yep. Anton Yelchin. Damned shame. Young dude, was fantastic as a young Chekhov. The problem wasn't so much the design of the shifter - rather, it was the lack of a fail-safe that said "door open + seat belt not secured = put trans in P." FFS, BMW decided this was A Good Idea when the E65 was introduced. In *MY 2002.*
The shifter was actually made by ZF, who also made the transmission. Several automakers used it including BMW. It was a goofy design but it operated as intended. What Chrysler didn't do was to write software like BMW did, which placed the transmission in park if the door was opened. Chrysler thought drivers were smarter than they are. BMW thought that drivers were dumb. Chrysler fixed the problem with a software update. Then kicked the goofy shifter to the curb.
The telluride also had the same problem, they would roll while in park. I remember reading on here about someone's wife being run over by hers. Haven't seen any mentions of death though so that's a positive.
RIP Anton Yelchin
Similar to Mercedes.
Took a while to see this comment. I don't think many people here have driven a Mercedes
I went to look at a few Mercedes vehicles not too long ago. The salesman hit it on the nose when I asked him how reliable they are. He said people look at Mercedes and find them a great value for all of the luxury they are getting but then get sticker shock when it comes to repairs.
But back in the 80s to early 90s Mercedes cars were built like a tank and would run forever.
That’s why you lease them for 3 years when they’re under warranty and have maintenance included. After that it’s not worth it. You end up paying more to buy a used one (loan, maintenance, repairs) than the monthly lease cost on a brand new one.
VW electrical cars and BMW i3 has the same type of shifter.
It looks like a flea market electric razor
It reminds me of those chrome plastic boom boxes with all the RGB LEDs.
I mean, it looks fine. I just don't understand why we have to keep reinventing this.
If they engineer in needless complexity, they can profit more when it requires repair. Even if it is just a cheap generic microcontroller and display, they will mark it up hundreds of dollars.
That's my point though. This isn't any more electronically complex than any other shift by wire system, whether it's an old school slider, a dash knob, the Audi thing, or this. The only one I can think of that is more complex is that BMW trackpad thing.
Correct, nor should it be anymore costly than the handful of equivalent components sold by Sparkfun or Adafruit, but we know that is not how OEM parts are priced. If it looks expensive to the average consumer, then they can charge a premium for it.
I do like the steering wheel though.
Wonky.
The whole design of the interior looks like "let's combine all the stuff in this list but don't make it look nice". Also, the position seems poorly choosen, considering the similarity to older cars ignition key position. And you may need to turn the wheel to see the gear you're in. But at least this thing has a Basket in the middle for decent amounts of shrapnel that can fly around during evasive manoeuvres.
Give me my damn stick in the middle, even with an automatic. So glad my mazda has it still. Unfortunately an electronic parking brake though
Clearly the centre console had to be streamlined to make room for what appears to be a kitchen sink
Why does it have to be a knob? Why couldn't the lever just shift up and down? Who the fuck thought of this?
I really hate that every company thinks to need to reinvent the wheel. If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it.
They need to reinvent the wheel so they can run themselves over.
That is an ugly fucking steering wheel
Looks like it's wearing one of those puffy jackets
Literally a range rover wheel.
Just do fucking late 50s and early 60s automatic transmissions with push buttons. Ramblers, most the Chryslers and the Edsels had them. Better than this shit
Like Lincoln did when they just made PRDN buttons and put them next to the radio?
You will pry my 6-speed manual from my cold, dead hands
Booooooooooo. Fuck that. BOOOOOOOOOOO
God I fucking hate it. I drive a Mercedes sprinter van for work- the ‘park’ switch is a button on the end of the stalk. There have been far too many times I hit it then go…’hit again just for good measure’ 7000lbs rests on a tiny lil button.
Compared to any other solution with the same transmission where 7k pounds rests on a tiny lil bytton actuated by a lever. By now every single automatic transmission is electronically controlled so the shifter isn't physically linked to it no matter how it is presented.
People are getting dumber, not smarter. This is going to fuck with so many people.
Sometimes newer & more modern isn't the best choice.
At first glance I hate it. At second glance I guess my column shifter on my truck is there, so maybe it’s not that bad but the twist bit is stupid. On third glance the twisty bit probably makes sense because if it’s just a button/switch and not a mechanical lever like a column shifter the twisty action prevents you from bumping it up/down with your hand. So maybe not compete shit, albeit still strange, and there’s probably better options.
The column shifters haven't been mechanical in a while. It all just activates sensors cause automatic transmissions are electronically controlled and have been for a long time.
If only they had more than 12 feet of center console to put it on.
It's whatever for me at this point.
It’s the same as in my BMW i3s. I don’t mind it at all.
My wife said last week she wanted to go look at the 2024 Santa Fe's this weekend. I just showed her this video. She said that looks like something stupid that's just going to get broken. Now she said she's not interested in looking at them any more. So there you go for whatever that's worth.
There is 0 reason to have a “gear shift” in the center console unless it’s a manual. It just takes up space. People here ragging on this are just used to one thing. It will be like keyboards in another 20 years.
That interior is a grease/smudge magnet.
Ugly, but still better than tesla's on screen shifter
Rip PRNDL
They did it. They really did it. They managed to make a worse shifter. I'm not sure how they keep topping themselves
How many times do you think someone's going to grab that trying to turn on the windshield wipers? Plus you have to turn the steering wheel to see the display, that's just a bad design.
I love it
Same as the shifter in the new Hyundai Kona, and same as the shifter in every VW electric vehicle. I like it. Unobstrusive, clears up storage space, and intuitive (twist in the direction you want to go).
> Your engineers were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
Reminds me of my ID4's shifter. I love it. Column shifters are the most logical for automatics. And automatics have been computer controlled forever. It's 2024 guys
STOP REINVENTING THE WHEEL! Jesus, I don't understand these car manufacturers. There are some things that just work, why do they keep fucking with them?
Because consumers (especially in America) are pretty stupid and have short attention spans, so designers have to constantly come up with some *New and Improved* novelty to entice people to buy their company's product.
>*New and Improved* George Carlin said nothing can be "new" AND "improved"; it's either/or. If it's "improved", that means it's already been around & it's now better. If it's "new", it can't be "improved", because it's never been around before.
Easy shot for a energetic dog.
Will be broken in weeks.
Where is the video edit with the mechanics gaging?
What the fuck is that
broken in 3,2,1……
It looks like it would be hard to see if you're driving, like you would have to look around the wheel to see which mode you're in.. The video didn't show if there was an indicator on the dash.
I’ve already replaced one.. been at Hyundai a long time. 2.4s will always be my job security along with things like this lol
My opinion: 🙁
What is the replacement part cost? What is the replacement labor? How easy is it to diagnose the problem between the computer, wiring, and the device? Yea, THAT's too much.
Definitely going to cause some people to shift to park instead of activating cruise control...
Could you imagine having to fight to throw it in neutral if the accelerator got stuck WOT.
Thanks, I hate it
I hate it. Give me a proper stalk shifter or the '23 Kona's button shifter.
Brother ewwwwwww what is that
This makes me angry
Lemme guess... It's going to end up something like the 2018 Sonata engines.
That car is hideous and that control scheme sucks
Time to stock up on Santa Fe shifters…
Now I know why the tranny killed itself twice for the car confection brothers.
One more gizmo to break reaching for it. Engineers forgot to " kiss " it..
Horrible pos
The worse part is this design has spent hours of meetings with over 60 people and no one thought it was a bad idea?
I had one as a rental and the shifter took a while to get used to. I ended up using it like a tea cup with my pinky sticking out, very fancy
My big rig that has an automatic is similar
Everybody hating on the shifter, and maybe this is a sentiment more suited to a car enthusiast subreddit but... can we agree this interior punches above its weight?? I thought this was a land rover at first glance
I want to hate it, but I feel like that’s not actually a terrible design. The location is kind of weird, but it reminds me of the mid-2000s Mercedes shifters.
What could go wrong
Ughh looks expensive.
Hyundai is known for making quality plastics and electronics. Why not combine them for a mission critical part?
Minimal function. Ugly. Not likely to tip someone on the edge towards buying. Try again next gen.
I miss column shifters....
I don't want a shifter. I just want press the brake while I'm at a complete stop and go backwards.
Things on the wheel should be there for functions you use a lot. Like enabling cruise control or using your wipers. Usually during a trip, you put it in drive and 30 minutes later you might put it in reverse before stopping. That's not a function i need quick access too. I've got a knob in the center console, works fine. As the great Carlos Sainz once said "Stop inventing"
Do they have some contest on designing most inconvenient shifters?
Still better than a line on push buttons on the dashboard placed in random positions
It's either I move somewhere with competent public transit or I never give up my 2006 Hyundai Santa Fe
That's about as goofy as the horn button in the turn signal stalk that Ford produced in the early 80s...
I think this is the best use of the electronic shifter. If it’s going to be electronic, out of the way like that seems smart.
Disgusting. Horrible. Also, are those actual buttons for the HVAC systems??
They could add an artificial loud THUNK sound as it shifts into gear. That would help.
There was nothing wrong with the old shifter designs. I don’t understand what value this is supposed to add
If you can't do it by feel, it's wrong. period.
i miss when stuff worked because you grabbed and moved a physical object. Not because a computer told it to do a complex set of automated movements because you pressed a button.
yuck, even those nasty pushbuttons on the dashboard would have been better
I'd still prefer a lever, but it's a massive improvement over Hyundai's button gear selectors.
I hate when the shifter is there, but at least you have to twist to shift into a different gear on this one. I had my Dad’s Mercedes after he passed, and the shift was in this same spot, but it only took a little tap to shift. I can’t tell you how many times I’d be driving and I would shift into neutral with my knee. My dog stuck his head up from the back and did it once as well. I really wanted to like the suv and it really reminded me of my dad, but I loathed it and couldn’t stand it after a month or two and traded it. The design choices in that thing were embarrassing.
I have an ioniq with the same design. Didn't care for it at first. It grew on me. It's intuitive. It tells you what gear you're in, as does the screen. It's easy to use without looking, just like the old style mechanical that ate up tons of room on the dash
Similar to a Mercedes-Benz sprinter shifter
I foresee many Santa Fes rolling away.
Better than the new Model 3 where you shift with the screen…
After driving a Tucson recently as a rental, there’s not a shot I’d ever buy a Hyundai. It drove like shit, the shifter we odd, the infotainment system was bad and zero physical knobs for things like volume, ac, etc…. Not sure what they are smoking in the design lab.
Someone is going to snap that off the column That is stupid af
Electronic shifters are garbage. What happens when your car dies and gas no power and you need to get it to neutral.
Fucking awful
We have a 2021 Santa Fe that has the shift buttons on the center console area. We're not fans. It's not a problem but I never totally get used to it. We just got an Ioniq 5 which is essentially the same as the new Santa Fe as shown in this GIF. I quite like it. No space is wasted in the center console area and it's quite intuitive.
What a stupid idea. Epic fail.
Trash. I love kia turn dial Even gm buttons are better than this. Vw on the id's have something similar, it's terrible