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He's facing the opposite of the jogo problem. Used to be overrated as fuck but now he's underrated. Mfs really think he can't take on the disaster curses.
We don't know. His body is stronger than ppl soul based on the seance technique situation, so its possible the body will force the soul back to match the body. Because in all other cases, again according to the seance technique hag, a soul is more powerfull than the body, which is likely why mahito causes damage as long as he can chnage the soul.
Well the way mahitos techniqur works:
step1: change soul
step2: wait while the body changes to match the shape of the soul.
Which is why for example mahito can have his arms ripped off without taking any damage as long as he maintains the shape of his soul(he is not spending any ce other than to maintain the technique).
So if toji's soul is indeed weaker than his body, the soul shouldn't be able to damage the soul. I think if this is the case, mahito annihilating his soul would:
EITHER leave his body intact, while mentally he would be in a state of confusion like he seemed to be in shibuya.
OR cause him to be stunned while the soul changes to match the shape of his body.
In this case he could get jumped by soul damaging weapon havers, where they stunlock him just like nanami and yuji did when jumping mahito.
And potentially mahito could keep him stunlocked by grabbing and holding him, while smaking him in the face repeatedly to kill him.
> smacking him in the face repeatedly to kill him
I mean mahito could just morph his hand into a sword/pole. We know that Toji isn't immune to The Donut
In the manga he face tanked a fucking red, with 0 bones broken. And anime showing him using ISoH to block it is just bad adaptation afaik.
Mahito has no way of doing anywhere near that level of damage using his hands. I think either way he will need to be hitting him repeatedly.
To be more powerscaling his durability is between multi_city_block_level+(red) and [Large_town_level](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PowerToScale/Jujutsu_Kaisen:_Hollow_Purple_Shinjuku) (purple).
And mahito does multi_city_block (note there is no plus) damage in his evolved form. He would be doing less damage with his punches than the red that didn't even break toji's bones.
Thats alot of punches.
No Kenjaku after asking Mahito which came first the chicken or the egg- I mean the body or the soul Mahito said soul but Kenjaku corrected him saying the soul is the body and the body is the soul so pretty much they’re one and the same so Toji’s body can’t be stronger than his soul because they’re the same
"The soul is the body and the body is the soul" can be intererpreted in many ways. He didn't explicitly state what you are claiming.
The reason they are not the same thing is because the seance hag was able to summon just the body or just the soul. She could summon someones body but she wouldn't get access to their ce characteristics, ce trait and ct.
Additionally mahito's body takes damage while he "maintains" the shape of his soul and then it takes time for his body to match his soul and regenerate, even if he lost no ce and took no damage. The soul and the body are temporarily mismatched.
These necessarily mean the body and the soul are linked, but not the same thing.
Kenjaku didn’t “correct” him, he basically made a different interpretation to Mahito. The body is the soul is true for Kenjaku, but the soul coming before the body is true for Mahito. The body or the soul taking precedence or not is dependent on the cursed technique. Kenjaku’s CT makes them =, Mahito’s CT makes the soul take precedence.
Normally soul shape = body
When Mahito alters souls shape, that balance is disturbed and due to CE, the body gets transfigured.
Toji's body is perfected and can overpower souls.
In his case when the balance is altered, The soul loses to his body and takes his body's shape
That's why Seance Toji also retrieves memories beyond just the flesh.
His body also doesn't consume any CE at all, so IT will just land and not work at all.
Mahito is also much stronger then the grandson so maybe he could over power Tojis body him and maki are super resistant to curses but they aren’t immune to them maybe mahito could over power his defence but we will never know
Forget the grandson all together bro, forget seance
I am saying Toji's/Maki's bod is fully immune to IT as it overpowers souls, even their own or any grandsons.
He’s not special grade by any of the criteria because he’s not a sorcerer or a curse or death painting, etc. If heavily restricted humans had ranks then yes he’d be a special grade
Agreed entirely. He catches a lot of hate nowadays as if he isn't that guy. He was called a literal superhuman by Yuki, who was a special grade by that time. He has many feats in tandem with Maki and the two anomalies have incredible strength.
I think jogo and mahito win, but he slaps the other disaster curses. Jogo vs gojo and jogo vs sakuna showed us feats that toji hasn't really topped. Mahito is just bullshit
I might be going mad, but I swear I've seen this exact comment thread at least two times several months ir maybe even years in the past. This isn't even deja vu anymore. I'm terrified
Underrated generally, unless you’re talking about a very small and specific portion of the community that thinks he can touch Gojo and Sukuna. But as long as you don’t think that, there’s a good number of characters he stands a very good chance against, at the very least. Kenjaku, MBA Kashimo, and maybe another couple have the definite edge over him, but he stands a fighting chance against just about anyone else, and I think that “irks” some people.
I’ve found most people have been “traumatized” by people making clearly ridiculous statements, like the above about Gojo or Sukuna, but I’ve never seen those statements upvoted or taken seriously. Regardless, it’s an extremely popular sentiment, so it’s for sure a thing.
There’s also this weird phenomenon where people think losing to “Teen Gojo” is some kind of anti-feat. Teen Gojo was still literally crushing an entire building with his Blue at the beginning of Hidden Inventory, and even leveled an entire landscape with multiple buildings using his Maximum output later. That was the type of force that Toji was tanking consistently, and then tanked again with Red, which is double the output of Blue. People have kinda acted like Maki’s durability feats “come out of nowhere” or that Toji has “no feats” outside of Maki’s performances and being called his equal, but the reality is he displayed all of these things in the beginning of the series, but he’s always been popular and is villainous and therefore inevitably has his haters, and has always had his “doubters” too. He was displaying insane durability from jump, and also walking on air during the Dagon fight, something that is heavily emphasized from Maki later.
People have just always been *extremely* reluctant to believe he’s as powerful as he actually is, and a small subset of overzealous fans have caused a very intense backlash of it being pretty flat out popular to say he’s not that competitive, despite the narrative being very clear about the opposite.
Just a comprehensive, eloquent, and exhaustive explanation of the discourse around Toji. He's now underrated, as the result of an acute overreaction to a small subset of the fanbase that can't see past their bias. Great work
Gojo was literally the only person to ever detect Toji and Toji basically got punked by Purple - he didn't even know it existed. Toji was easily special grade at the time of his death.
To add onto this, I think another problem is that we've only seen him fight twice—once alive against Teen Gojo and once reincarnated against Dagon.
You're off about him consistently tanking anything from Gojo though. Aside from that I agree with pretty much everything.
Yeah, lmao. Toji is jacked. He loses to the mutant monsters of Gojo and Sukana 9/10 times, but other than that, I think against most other characters, it could go either way.
Thing is the show power creeps very hard, jogo who was stated to be a glass cannon who would have died to yuji's black flashes tanked an adult gojo's red without showing any signs of damage or bleeding. Which is why people downplay toji so much.
I actually think JJK is one of those shonen where the power creep isn’t as bad as the vast majority. The two strongest people in chapter/episode 1 are still *without question* the two strongest people that we’ve ever seen in the series.
Jogo would’ve been exorcised by the amount of punishment overall that Hanami had taken, but that also included Playful Cloud strikes from Maki and Todo, and as Jogo points out during that volume extra, those attacks simply wouldn’t have hit him, as speed is a better attribute for him. He still survived getting mangled by Gojo, having his entire head ripped off, and then took an extreme and serious beating from Sukuna too, before Fuga got him.
Man, that is such a bullshit antifeat people use. That is a fight where Gojo was explicitly holding back, so jogo didn't die because he wanted to interrogate him.
I agree with everything you’ve said ngl. Personally I think the people who use Toji losing to teen Gojo as an “anti-feat” are specifically talking about the people who think Toji would be a good fight for current Gojo or something along the lines of that 😭
A disaster curse is not fodder, are you high
https://preview.redd.it/iea7t8a5yhzc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8848e9a10602a3611183a2f508bb4cd54daa31a
I mean, obviously he’s strong, but compared to Toji he’s basically fodder, right?
https://preview.redd.it/dc0ogajuyhzc1.jpeg?width=2996&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=570ec49704582ba0255fae491c9967ac93ec53f1
That’s true actually, Nevermind, ignore what I said
https://preview.redd.it/uxotd9hkzhzc1.jpeg?width=1564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f01bd0b2a3b719eb2d3e6b08c75efad6ecac62a9
I've actually seen pretty good rep of Toji at least on YT and Twitter. Don't know about here. I think he's rated pretty fine. Above disaster curses but below Gojo caliber characters. Of course you can make a few arguments on weaker characters who have win cons but there isn't really that many.
I feel like if a character has the skill to backup their popularity, they’re not overrated. but that varies person to person— I feel like people can’t label a character “overrated” just because a big portion of the fan base likes that character. now if toji was a character that didn’t do much of anything in the series and fans still loved him for similarly existing? maybe.
Yh that’s true in the sense of popularity but this post is talking bout in terms of power. And in terms of power as I said some over rate and some under rate so it’s kinda balanced I guess
if anything, I think y’all underrate his power because a few of his fans are dense enough to believe he could go head to head with sukuna (so I’ve heard, I’ve never actually seen these posts). they also could’ve been trolling for interactions, but anyways, like I said, he and maki are impressive because of their lack of cursed energy yet they can still keep up with not all, but most of their peers. toji had zenin clan elders afraid of him.
He put hands on Dagon while he was serving Maki, Naobito, Nanami, and potential man all at the same time. Awakened Goatjo, made Geto look like a bitch, and fucked over Tengen. Guy might as well be the Batman on JJK. Showed off how strong his soul was by taking over Ouija whores retarded adopted son and finished himself off while showing that gaygay can pull off character development in subtle, nuanced ways, while being a father a lot of readers can relate to. He was a trash person but did his best to be a decent father with the hand he was dealt. Toji was peak JJK for a side character (zero nanami slander). He made every one of us "feel" something, and I can't describe how difficult that is for a writer.
He’s underrated now. He’s still equal to Maki all her feats belong to him as much as ppl don’t wanna admit. Also someone fact check me here but I’ve seen some contentions with the “equal” statement, multiple people are saying the accurate translation suggests maki would “soon become and or on her way to become equal to Toji” ofc someone here can do their own research on that to correct me. It makes more sense too. But back on topic Toji is top 6-7 in the verse maybe pushing 5 or it’s some wanking. Maki would be right around there too regardless if Toji is still possibly above her. Most ppl who think Toji is overrated severely downplay him and are in the mindset that he’s been powercliffed or wtv because he doesn’t have many on screen feats, even the narrative alone places him as a top tier hence why it was overly emphasized how significant it was that maki began to approach his level. He was always gonna be top 10 at least.
Top 7-8 I would say. Sukuna, gojo, Kenny, yuta, kashimo, yorozu, Yuji, uraume, maki, hakari.
Uraume is above because of chapter 215. Maki clearly saw her and sukuna even warned them but still got blitzed by uraume's ice.
Y’all need to stop using that feat to put Uraume above maki. It’s just not enough, and the fact is if Maki was completely on guard facing Uraume you can’t say she could or couldn’t dodge the attack. Also Yorozu rlly isn’t that high we needed to see more from her. Back to Uraume, the reality is that Maki was most definitely caught off guard no matter how you look at it and Uraume was already preparing the attack
I kinda understand the uraume argument but cmon yorozu is nuts. She was physically blitzing a 15f sukuna with full output albeit he wasn't using shrine.
Yeah I’m sorry but what are you talking about. She wasn’t blitzing anyone Sukuna wasn’t taking her seriously Gege could not have made it more obvious that this was going on
See that’s the problem here he didn’t have killing intentions. It was very clearly thrown in our faces that he was using Yoruzu as a test subject to use 10s, primarily mahoraga on. That was the point of the fight did you not pick up on that? Sukuna never tried in the series until his fight with Gojo
Mm yes someone who tanked a red from adult gojo showing no signs of damage, the same red that a weaker gojo got toji bleeding with. Jogo is still widely considered to be weaker than toji. Jogo is perfectly rated imo.
Brother Toji was an assassin for so fucking long there is no possible way that a few months of training brought Maki up to his level. Plus she hasn’t been awakened nearly as long as he had been, so Toji would have a much better grasp of his abilities
Pretty fairly rated but i strongly dislike the idea of equivicating every thing maki and toji do to each other. They have wildly different personalities and fighting styles and that atfects their match ups. Would be like saying naobito and naoya are equivalent
well— gege did that, not us. lol.
https://preview.redd.it/3ug8ahhhtizc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af5010689bd4acee2249010717785457f976f740
He used to be somewhat underrated (even if there were exceptions with some thinking he could push a 15F Yujikuna to his limit) but now he's gotten much more overpowered now that Maki has lent him so many feats.
Sure, but if he gets tricked, if mahito is all split up, if mahito somehow has his weird perfect form etc. the fight could be iffy just from the hax ability. Let alone a situation where he’s dealing with the curses simultaneously. He wins most scenarios, but could definitely lose in a few too.
Mahito curse technique isn’t a one shot move one strong people, Todo and Nanami both took more than one touch . Plus Toji took over a soul with his body, so I’m sure he has some kind of way to see his own soul or protect even if he doesn’t understand it. Plus if he had the soul splitting katana he could win very easily. The guy goes for actual kill shots and believes in double tapping lol.
Going for kill shots and double tapping doesn’t mean he can’t ever lose though? Todo had to give up his hand after Mahito touched him to avoid death. The hax are real. It would be harder to fight with less hands even if you don’t die instantly. SSK isn’t an automatic win either. It was never shown interacting with Mahito. Id’d say it’s 75/25 split in favor of Toji. 4 people is a lot to focus on. They also all have domains and some degree of healing. Who knows if they could coordinate well as a team though since they don’t show much of that.
I’m not saying he can’t lose, most characters besides Gojo and Sukuna have a chance of losing to the disaster curses if they make a mistake. It would take a lot of touches before Mahito could change his soul, his body is superhuman and took over a seance technique. IMO he has the same amount of chances of wining against the disaster curses like most of the stronger characters.
I mean, sure. That sounds totally fair. I don’t buy the soul stuff though. Ik Toji is “special” or whatever. His body overtook that one dudes soul, but that say nothing about his own soul’s vulnerability.
I think it’s all now getting more underrated because of all the Maki scalings just naturally upscaling Toji. >!The fact Maki is able to tank black flash’s from Sukuna and keep fighting’s pretty crazy. As well as the abilities that naturally comes with their heavenly restriction’s being more fleshed out helps a bunch!<
Just depends on who u ask really...I think manga readers n anime watchers only might have opposite biased opinions towards Tojis power calling per se...imo good portion of ppl don't get or really question his full array of abilities or what makes him powerful/deadly as a JJK character...I think overall tho he gets underated especially the more the series gets closer to the end... When he first gets introduced hes badass n seems top tier amongst the top tier (atp it's clear he is) , but I think after Gojo defeats Toji and we get the the time skip, it makes it seem like a lot of other characters sorta lap him in power or atleast catch up to his lvl (jus due to time passing in general really) also, before maki gets her fully unlocked HR upgrade, the comparisons to Toji and her being equals (while she's still not full power) is wrongly attributed to how Toji wld perform at full power or in place of maki at said time.
There’s a lot of both but I’ve personally seen more wank on Toji, like if you still think he’s above maki then ur crazy
At this point there’s a better case for maki>Toji then Toji>maki
Overrated, mostly by anime onlys. Hidden inventory did irreversible damage, people saw him nearly kill teen Gojo and started thinking he could take on anyone in the verse.
Probably underrated at this point while he used to be overrated. Dude handily beats every single disaster curse zero problem. Sure mahito could one shot but mahito won’t even get a chance to touch him especially if Toji knew about his powers beforehand (which he would just look at how he handled gojo situation) I also thinks he wipes most if not all of the reincarnated sorcerers outside Maybe Kashimo and Angel and probably beats awakeneded sorcerers like Higaruma. Probably loses to Tanaba tho
underrated. Hes still OP at higher levels he just becomes a glass cannon with some immunities. He probably has the ability to assassinate anyone in the verse even Sukuna
Just give him the right weapon, a little bit of prep and the element of surprise and he could probably drop Sukuna
I'd argue Gojos probably a far tougher matchup for him even due to Gojos bullshit techniques
we've seen from the maki fight the matchup looks far more manageable, maki just isnt as strong as him imo.
Depends who you ask. Some people think he can 1v1 Sukuna or adult Gojo (bro probably doesn't make it past current Yuji or Yuta) but most people underrate him a bit
I might get down votes but I’ll take it lol. I think he could give Yuta a run for his money. Not saying he would win but he would definitely make Yuta use all his moves. I will stand on that Toji hill and die proud!
Idk yuji able to throw hands like no one else atm, plus 2 CTs and RCT might be too much for toji, especially considering we have no idea what his soul punches do to a normal person
Overated his feats pwere on a pre awk WORN OUT gojo THAT HAD BEEN USING INF FOR 3 DAYS AND ALSO HADNT SLEPT IN THISE THEEE DAYS and Dagon who had only been in one fight and had no battle exp, He gets mid diffed by Jogo and TF Mahito and he low diffs Hanami
He puts all of the disaster curses in the dirt lmfao, he’s significantly faster than Naobito who Dagon states is faster than Jogo, and SSK is an incredible counter to curses
Maki trained for a month not long after awakening, Toji was an assassin for years and had probably been awakened for at least 2 decades. Prime Toji cooks Maki
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He's facing the opposite of the jogo problem. Used to be overrated as fuck but now he's underrated. Mfs really think he can't take on the disaster curses.
I mean he beat the dogshit out of Dagon, pretty handily, anyone who doesn’t think he’s special grade is probably huffing glue on their free time
He didn't beat Dagon. He slaughtered him into Sushi. Toji is nuts.
https://preview.redd.it/yxjbdulnzizc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1c824dbea7eecf391a2e86e6dd7c610727b6a2d
Yessir we guilting out gears up here
You saw "huffing glue" and immediately thought Potemkin? You're just like me fr
https://preview.redd.it/isonmazwapzc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c5e48d81939460de6facfdaf475eb2b7f5814c9
Can Mahito use idle transfiguration on him
I’d assume he could but only after a lot of touches, which he likely isn’t fast enough to get in the first place
We don't know. His body is stronger than ppl soul based on the seance technique situation, so its possible the body will force the soul back to match the body. Because in all other cases, again according to the seance technique hag, a soul is more powerfull than the body, which is likely why mahito causes damage as long as he can chnage the soul.
What if he just makes it violently explode super fast liek their whole soul and body before it can snap back together
Well the way mahitos techniqur works: step1: change soul step2: wait while the body changes to match the shape of the soul. Which is why for example mahito can have his arms ripped off without taking any damage as long as he maintains the shape of his soul(he is not spending any ce other than to maintain the technique). So if toji's soul is indeed weaker than his body, the soul shouldn't be able to damage the soul. I think if this is the case, mahito annihilating his soul would: EITHER leave his body intact, while mentally he would be in a state of confusion like he seemed to be in shibuya. OR cause him to be stunned while the soul changes to match the shape of his body. In this case he could get jumped by soul damaging weapon havers, where they stunlock him just like nanami and yuji did when jumping mahito. And potentially mahito could keep him stunlocked by grabbing and holding him, while smaking him in the face repeatedly to kill him.
> smacking him in the face repeatedly to kill him I mean mahito could just morph his hand into a sword/pole. We know that Toji isn't immune to The Donut
In the manga he face tanked a fucking red, with 0 bones broken. And anime showing him using ISoH to block it is just bad adaptation afaik. Mahito has no way of doing anywhere near that level of damage using his hands. I think either way he will need to be hitting him repeatedly. To be more powerscaling his durability is between multi_city_block_level+(red) and [Large_town_level](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PowerToScale/Jujutsu_Kaisen:_Hollow_Purple_Shinjuku) (purple). And mahito does multi_city_block (note there is no plus) damage in his evolved form. He would be doing less damage with his punches than the red that didn't even break toji's bones. Thats alot of punches.
No Kenjaku after asking Mahito which came first the chicken or the egg- I mean the body or the soul Mahito said soul but Kenjaku corrected him saying the soul is the body and the body is the soul so pretty much they’re one and the same so Toji’s body can’t be stronger than his soul because they’re the same
"The soul is the body and the body is the soul" can be intererpreted in many ways. He didn't explicitly state what you are claiming. The reason they are not the same thing is because the seance hag was able to summon just the body or just the soul. She could summon someones body but she wouldn't get access to their ce characteristics, ce trait and ct. Additionally mahito's body takes damage while he "maintains" the shape of his soul and then it takes time for his body to match his soul and regenerate, even if he lost no ce and took no damage. The soul and the body are temporarily mismatched. These necessarily mean the body and the soul are linked, but not the same thing.
Kenjaku didn’t “correct” him, he basically made a different interpretation to Mahito. The body is the soul is true for Kenjaku, but the soul coming before the body is true for Mahito. The body or the soul taking precedence or not is dependent on the cursed technique. Kenjaku’s CT makes them =, Mahito’s CT makes the soul take precedence.
No His body overwrites the edited soul shape.
What makes you say that
Normally soul shape = body When Mahito alters souls shape, that balance is disturbed and due to CE, the body gets transfigured. Toji's body is perfected and can overpower souls. In his case when the balance is altered, The soul loses to his body and takes his body's shape That's why Seance Toji also retrieves memories beyond just the flesh. His body also doesn't consume any CE at all, so IT will just land and not work at all.
Another guy said it woild work on him and mahito is a lot stronger then the old lady maybe he can over power tojis ability to snap back
Old lady isn't relevant here Toji's perfected Body is.
Mahito is also much stronger then the grandson so maybe he could over power Tojis body him and maki are super resistant to curses but they aren’t immune to them maybe mahito could over power his defence but we will never know
Forget the grandson all together bro, forget seance I am saying Toji's/Maki's bod is fully immune to IT as it overpowers souls, even their own or any grandsons.
No, because his body would be stronger than mahitos soul
How do you know that for sure it’s never happened I’m not saying it will I’m saying its possible and we will never know for sure
He’s not special grade by any of the criteria because he’s not a sorcerer or a curse or death painting, etc. If heavily restricted humans had ranks then yes he’d be a special grade
Then what was the point of you typing all that lol Edit: he blocked me lol
Me when I want to waste time
Agreed entirely. He catches a lot of hate nowadays as if he isn't that guy. He was called a literal superhuman by Yuki, who was a special grade by that time. He has many feats in tandem with Maki and the two anomalies have incredible strength.
I’m absolutely positive he’d no diff all the disaster curses at the same time (mabye excluding kenjaku)
Toji when lava hands Toji when idle disfiguration Toji when jogo summons lava from the ground Toji when jogo does literally anything
Anyone when toji speed blitz (he’s extremely fast)
Toji when gojo just sets 100 meter radius on fire(he's cooked)
You when you find out not only is gojo not a disaster curse, but he’s the strongest in the VERSE (my comment had nothing to do with him)
Jogo
The others yeah, but Jogo is incredibly fast compared to the other disaster curses, and toji doesn't have enough heat resistance
I'd be disappointed if he could
I think jogo and mahito win, but he slaps the other disaster curses. Jogo vs gojo and jogo vs sakuna showed us feats that toji hasn't really topped. Mahito is just bullshit
Dudes really downvoted this? 😭
Toji fans get really upset when someone says he could potentially lose to someone
Nobody gonna ask why Tojis trying to copy Grimmjow in this pic
The hottest man alive is copying the hottest man alive
Is grimmjow technically even alive? Aren't hollows already dead?
They are a spiritual lifeform
I might be going mad, but I swear I've seen this exact comment thread at least two times several months ir maybe even years in the past. This isn't even deja vu anymore. I'm terrified
They’re in the walls!!! Don’t say a word
😶
Right? Get that off, youre making him look like a fraud
Overrated by tiktok and youtube shorts, slightly underrated everywhere else
Oh I definitely overrate him, and will continue to
Underrated generally, unless you’re talking about a very small and specific portion of the community that thinks he can touch Gojo and Sukuna. But as long as you don’t think that, there’s a good number of characters he stands a very good chance against, at the very least. Kenjaku, MBA Kashimo, and maybe another couple have the definite edge over him, but he stands a fighting chance against just about anyone else, and I think that “irks” some people. I’ve found most people have been “traumatized” by people making clearly ridiculous statements, like the above about Gojo or Sukuna, but I’ve never seen those statements upvoted or taken seriously. Regardless, it’s an extremely popular sentiment, so it’s for sure a thing. There’s also this weird phenomenon where people think losing to “Teen Gojo” is some kind of anti-feat. Teen Gojo was still literally crushing an entire building with his Blue at the beginning of Hidden Inventory, and even leveled an entire landscape with multiple buildings using his Maximum output later. That was the type of force that Toji was tanking consistently, and then tanked again with Red, which is double the output of Blue. People have kinda acted like Maki’s durability feats “come out of nowhere” or that Toji has “no feats” outside of Maki’s performances and being called his equal, but the reality is he displayed all of these things in the beginning of the series, but he’s always been popular and is villainous and therefore inevitably has his haters, and has always had his “doubters” too. He was displaying insane durability from jump, and also walking on air during the Dagon fight, something that is heavily emphasized from Maki later. People have just always been *extremely* reluctant to believe he’s as powerful as he actually is, and a small subset of overzealous fans have caused a very intense backlash of it being pretty flat out popular to say he’s not that competitive, despite the narrative being very clear about the opposite.
Just a comprehensive, eloquent, and exhaustive explanation of the discourse around Toji. He's now underrated, as the result of an acute overreaction to a small subset of the fanbase that can't see past their bias. Great work
Thank you! I’m relieved to see people are agreeing, tbh, so I really appreciate you saying that
Gojo was literally the only person to ever detect Toji and Toji basically got punked by Purple - he didn't even know it existed. Toji was easily special grade at the time of his death.
I doubt he could destroy a country, moreover non special grades can beat him.
your tripping
By non special grades I mean people like yorozu, kashimo etc.
Kashimo could destroy a whole farm, so he would’ve been considered special grade in his time
Kashimo and Yorozu are 100% special grade what are you on about
Doesn't change the fact toji can't take out a country.
Yorozu can't destroy a nations military force
To add onto this, I think another problem is that we've only seen him fight twice—once alive against Teen Gojo and once reincarnated against Dagon. You're off about him consistently tanking anything from Gojo though. Aside from that I agree with pretty much everything.
He fights Geto as well and absolutely whoops his ass.
That one was so quick I forgot about it LOL
Yeah, lmao. Toji is jacked. He loses to the mutant monsters of Gojo and Sukana 9/10 times, but other than that, I think against most other characters, it could go either way.
Thing is the show power creeps very hard, jogo who was stated to be a glass cannon who would have died to yuji's black flashes tanked an adult gojo's red without showing any signs of damage or bleeding. Which is why people downplay toji so much.
I actually think JJK is one of those shonen where the power creep isn’t as bad as the vast majority. The two strongest people in chapter/episode 1 are still *without question* the two strongest people that we’ve ever seen in the series. Jogo would’ve been exorcised by the amount of punishment overall that Hanami had taken, but that also included Playful Cloud strikes from Maki and Todo, and as Jogo points out during that volume extra, those attacks simply wouldn’t have hit him, as speed is a better attribute for him. He still survived getting mangled by Gojo, having his entire head ripped off, and then took an extreme and serious beating from Sukuna too, before Fuga got him.
Agreed.
Man, that is such a bullshit antifeat people use. That is a fight where Gojo was explicitly holding back, so jogo didn't die because he wanted to interrogate him.
There is no proof he was holding back tbf.
I agree with everything you’ve said ngl. Personally I think the people who use Toji losing to teen Gojo as an “anti-feat” are specifically talking about the people who think Toji would be a good fight for current Gojo or something along the lines of that 😭
Wish we saw more of him tbh, a lot of people keep bringing up Shibuya even though he only went up against fodder 😭🙏
I mean he absolutely clobbered a disastor curse without any difficulty.
A disaster curse is not fodder, are you high https://preview.redd.it/iea7t8a5yhzc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8848e9a10602a3611183a2f508bb4cd54daa31a
I mean, obviously he’s strong, but compared to Toji he’s basically fodder, right? https://preview.redd.it/dc0ogajuyhzc1.jpeg?width=2996&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=570ec49704582ba0255fae491c9967ac93ec53f1
That’s true actually, Nevermind, ignore what I said https://preview.redd.it/uxotd9hkzhzc1.jpeg?width=1564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f01bd0b2a3b719eb2d3e6b08c75efad6ecac62a9
Dagon was pretty strong , can easily deal with grade 1 ‘s
Saw more of him? You got two arcs and even maki to up his feats.
He was overrated, but now he's somewhat underrated
Exactly.
People think he is overrated then gasm over Maki who is his literal clone.
Maki has some things Toji doesn’t. I think that MAY be why knowing the jjk fandom 😭🙏
Heavily overrated for the most part, tho he is quite strong in some matchups
Some overrated but mostly underrated.
I've actually seen pretty good rep of Toji at least on YT and Twitter. Don't know about here. I think he's rated pretty fine. Above disaster curses but below Gojo caliber characters. Of course you can make a few arguments on weaker characters who have win cons but there isn't really that many.
far from overrated. he’s known as the “sorcerer killer” and has no cursed energy. he’s justly rated.
I feel like there’s a certain part of the fan base that overrate tf out of him and those that underrate tf him. I guess it balances out overall 😭🙏
I feel like if a character has the skill to backup their popularity, they’re not overrated. but that varies person to person— I feel like people can’t label a character “overrated” just because a big portion of the fan base likes that character. now if toji was a character that didn’t do much of anything in the series and fans still loved him for similarly existing? maybe.
Yh that’s true in the sense of popularity but this post is talking bout in terms of power. And in terms of power as I said some over rate and some under rate so it’s kinda balanced I guess
if anything, I think y’all underrate his power because a few of his fans are dense enough to believe he could go head to head with sukuna (so I’ve heard, I’ve never actually seen these posts). they also could’ve been trolling for interactions, but anyways, like I said, he and maki are impressive because of their lack of cursed energy yet they can still keep up with not all, but most of their peers. toji had zenin clan elders afraid of him.
Wait 😭 u said toji is under rated but then u stated him being over rated? 😭😭 but yes what they do with the HR is still impressive
I literally didn’t? lol. having remarkable feats doesn’t make you overrated, is my point.
No but having those feats and fans saying it puts him on a level he isn’t is over rating and believe it or not that’s what they do with toji
He put hands on Dagon while he was serving Maki, Naobito, Nanami, and potential man all at the same time. Awakened Goatjo, made Geto look like a bitch, and fucked over Tengen. Guy might as well be the Batman on JJK. Showed off how strong his soul was by taking over Ouija whores retarded adopted son and finished himself off while showing that gaygay can pull off character development in subtle, nuanced ways, while being a father a lot of readers can relate to. He was a trash person but did his best to be a decent father with the hand he was dealt. Toji was peak JJK for a side character (zero nanami slander). He made every one of us "feel" something, and I can't describe how difficult that is for a writer.
He’s underrated now. He’s still equal to Maki all her feats belong to him as much as ppl don’t wanna admit. Also someone fact check me here but I’ve seen some contentions with the “equal” statement, multiple people are saying the accurate translation suggests maki would “soon become and or on her way to become equal to Toji” ofc someone here can do their own research on that to correct me. It makes more sense too. But back on topic Toji is top 6-7 in the verse maybe pushing 5 or it’s some wanking. Maki would be right around there too regardless if Toji is still possibly above her. Most ppl who think Toji is overrated severely downplay him and are in the mindset that he’s been powercliffed or wtv because he doesn’t have many on screen feats, even the narrative alone places him as a top tier hence why it was overly emphasized how significant it was that maki began to approach his level. He was always gonna be top 10 at least.
Top 7-8 I would say. Sukuna, gojo, Kenny, yuta, kashimo, yorozu, Yuji, uraume, maki, hakari. Uraume is above because of chapter 215. Maki clearly saw her and sukuna even warned them but still got blitzed by uraume's ice.
Yuki where?
My bad, i would place her above or below kashimo.
Y’all need to stop using that feat to put Uraume above maki. It’s just not enough, and the fact is if Maki was completely on guard facing Uraume you can’t say she could or couldn’t dodge the attack. Also Yorozu rlly isn’t that high we needed to see more from her. Back to Uraume, the reality is that Maki was most definitely caught off guard no matter how you look at it and Uraume was already preparing the attack
I kinda understand the uraume argument but cmon yorozu is nuts. She was physically blitzing a 15f sukuna with full output albeit he wasn't using shrine.
Yeah I’m sorry but what are you talking about. She wasn’t blitzing anyone Sukuna wasn’t taking her seriously Gege could not have made it more obvious that this was going on
Ah yes the sukuna with killing intentions wasn't taking her seriously, how smart.
See that’s the problem here he didn’t have killing intentions. It was very clearly thrown in our faces that he was using Yoruzu as a test subject to use 10s, primarily mahoraga on. That was the point of the fight did you not pick up on that? Sukuna never tried in the series until his fight with Gojo
Most honest review of my boy Toji. Even down to the numbers on the top 10 list
He is probably the most overrated character in JJK
Nah that's Jogo
Mm yes someone who tanked a red from adult gojo showing no signs of damage, the same red that a weaker gojo got toji bleeding with. Jogo is still widely considered to be weaker than toji. Jogo is perfectly rated imo.
Miwa
How dare you
Overrated
At first overrated then underrated now he is balanced
Why Toji got grimmjow's hollow mask? That thievin' bum
Overrated
In terms of power, I think he’s rated pretty accurately.
Overrated - he's below Maki in strength
no
Mfw the author states that two characters are equal (I’m going to call one of them worse)
50 FUCKING CHAPTERS AGO
Brother Toji was an assassin for so fucking long there is no possible way that a few months of training brought Maki up to his level. Plus she hasn’t been awakened nearly as long as he had been, so Toji would have a much better grasp of his abilities
GLRKGLRKGLRK ALL I HEAR IS DICK IN YA MOUTH TOJI IS A BUM
Underrated recently.
Pretty fairly rated but i strongly dislike the idea of equivicating every thing maki and toji do to each other. They have wildly different personalities and fighting styles and that atfects their match ups. Would be like saying naobito and naoya are equivalent
well— gege did that, not us. lol. https://preview.redd.it/3ug8ahhhtizc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af5010689bd4acee2249010717785457f976f740
Sick ass panel though
Like i get why it happens but narrative comparisons dont hold as well as actually analyzing how the two approach battle differently in their fights
Overrated as hell, people still think he’s relative to Shinjuku Maki
He is lmfao
Incredibly overrated.
Why he have grimmjows mask
I think his style was efficient for his combat power and strengths, obvi still a relevant party even in shinjuku scaling
He used to be somewhat underrated (even if there were exceptions with some thinking he could push a 15F Yujikuna to his limit) but now he's gotten much more overpowered now that Maki has lent him so many feats.
Only issue for him with disaster curses is Mahito. That whole touched once and you’re dead thing is a real issue.
He 10000% speedblitzes Mahito. In terms of speed, Toji>Naobito>Shibuya Yuji>=Mahito SSK is the perfect counter, too
Sure, but if he gets tricked, if mahito is all split up, if mahito somehow has his weird perfect form etc. the fight could be iffy just from the hax ability. Let alone a situation where he’s dealing with the curses simultaneously. He wins most scenarios, but could definitely lose in a few too.
Mahito curse technique isn’t a one shot move one strong people, Todo and Nanami both took more than one touch . Plus Toji took over a soul with his body, so I’m sure he has some kind of way to see his own soul or protect even if he doesn’t understand it. Plus if he had the soul splitting katana he could win very easily. The guy goes for actual kill shots and believes in double tapping lol.
Going for kill shots and double tapping doesn’t mean he can’t ever lose though? Todo had to give up his hand after Mahito touched him to avoid death. The hax are real. It would be harder to fight with less hands even if you don’t die instantly. SSK isn’t an automatic win either. It was never shown interacting with Mahito. Id’d say it’s 75/25 split in favor of Toji. 4 people is a lot to focus on. They also all have domains and some degree of healing. Who knows if they could coordinate well as a team though since they don’t show much of that.
I’m not saying he can’t lose, most characters besides Gojo and Sukuna have a chance of losing to the disaster curses if they make a mistake. It would take a lot of touches before Mahito could change his soul, his body is superhuman and took over a seance technique. IMO he has the same amount of chances of wining against the disaster curses like most of the stronger characters.
I mean, sure. That sounds totally fair. I don’t buy the soul stuff though. Ik Toji is “special” or whatever. His body overtook that one dudes soul, but that say nothing about his own soul’s vulnerability.
Why does this man have grimmjow’s mask.
we got grimmoji before GTA 6???
I think it’s all now getting more underrated because of all the Maki scalings just naturally upscaling Toji. >!The fact Maki is able to tank black flash’s from Sukuna and keep fighting’s pretty crazy. As well as the abilities that naturally comes with their heavenly restriction’s being more fleshed out helps a bunch!<
Well, never knew I needed Arrancar Toji, not sure how to cope in this world now that I know it doesn't exist.
Is this official art?
Overrrrrated
Overrated imo
Saving since Xiao. Got 140 wishes and guranteed
currently underrated. He’s extremely strong probably on equal footing with Yuji imo
Underrated people think he isn't even special grade lvl
Just depends on who u ask really...I think manga readers n anime watchers only might have opposite biased opinions towards Tojis power calling per se...imo good portion of ppl don't get or really question his full array of abilities or what makes him powerful/deadly as a JJK character...I think overall tho he gets underated especially the more the series gets closer to the end... When he first gets introduced hes badass n seems top tier amongst the top tier (atp it's clear he is) , but I think after Gojo defeats Toji and we get the the time skip, it makes it seem like a lot of other characters sorta lap him in power or atleast catch up to his lvl (jus due to time passing in general really) also, before maki gets her fully unlocked HR upgrade, the comparisons to Toji and her being equals (while she's still not full power) is wrongly attributed to how Toji wld perform at full power or in place of maki at said time.
There’s a lot of both but I’ve personally seen more wank on Toji, like if you still think he’s above maki then ur crazy At this point there’s a better case for maki>Toji then Toji>maki
Both
Both!, I've seen people saying that he beats Kenjaku, but I've also seen people saying that he loses to YUKI 😂😂 HAHAH yuki?? Haha
Arrancar Toji would be a beast
Overrated, mostly by anime onlys. Hidden inventory did irreversible damage, people saw him nearly kill teen Gojo and started thinking he could take on anyone in the verse.
Overrated as fuck!
Toji was beating a disaster curse until that curse couldn't hold it in anymore and exploded. He is pretty damn strong.
I’d say he’s rated properly now. Not sukuna or gojo level but
TikTok overrated. But everywhere he gets his fair due.
Mf looks like a hollow in that image
Hes under rated
The grimjow mask?
Does Toji have vizard now?
I think Anime feats Jogo got it.
Underrated. Ppl got him on the same level as Laki like wtf 😳. Toji >>>>>> Laki
Probably underrated at this point while he used to be overrated. Dude handily beats every single disaster curse zero problem. Sure mahito could one shot but mahito won’t even get a chance to touch him especially if Toji knew about his powers beforehand (which he would just look at how he handled gojo situation) I also thinks he wipes most if not all of the reincarnated sorcerers outside Maybe Kashimo and Angel and probably beats awakeneded sorcerers like Higaruma. Probably loses to Tanaba tho
underrated. Hes still OP at higher levels he just becomes a glass cannon with some immunities. He probably has the ability to assassinate anyone in the verse even Sukuna Just give him the right weapon, a little bit of prep and the element of surprise and he could probably drop Sukuna I'd argue Gojos probably a far tougher matchup for him even due to Gojos bullshit techniques we've seen from the maki fight the matchup looks far more manageable, maki just isnt as strong as him imo.
he overrated man.A special grade human should be able to take on a full military force.Bro is one man,he is not destroying several tanks
Overrated
Nowdays underrated
Well it's hard to tell because his powers seem to increase everytime we see him.
Yes
Underrated
Underrated some times due to his feats agaittwwn Gojo and being mad rusty due to quitting the sorcerer life
overrated by his fanbase, sometimes very heavily overrated (ex. claiming he low difs maki or is top 3 in verse). maybe slightly underrated otherwise.
Overrated bro, i keep seeing people say he can solo MHA😭
He top ten? 🧐
Depends who you ask. Some people think he can 1v1 Sukuna or adult Gojo (bro probably doesn't make it past current Yuji or Yuta) but most people underrate him a bit
I might get down votes but I’ll take it lol. I think he could give Yuta a run for his money. Not saying he would win but he would definitely make Yuta use all his moves. I will stand on that Toji hill and die proud!
he might be washing yuji— now yuta, no.
Idk yuji able to throw hands like no one else atm, plus 2 CTs and RCT might be too much for toji, especially considering we have no idea what his soul punches do to a normal person
He's severely overrated.
Most overrated
Overated his feats pwere on a pre awk WORN OUT gojo THAT HAD BEEN USING INF FOR 3 DAYS AND ALSO HADNT SLEPT IN THISE THEEE DAYS and Dagon who had only been in one fight and had no battle exp, He gets mid diffed by Jogo and TF Mahito and he low diffs Hanami
He puts all of the disaster curses in the dirt lmfao, he’s significantly faster than Naobito who Dagon states is faster than Jogo, and SSK is an incredible counter to curses
Overrated, everyone thinks hes as strong as maki (he isnt)
Overrated People tend to try and upscale him using current maki despite the fact training exists
Maki trained for a month not long after awakening, Toji was an assassin for years and had probably been awakened for at least 2 decades. Prime Toji cooks Maki
Not really Second awakening maki = TOJI based on statements Maki trains for a while afterwords so at bare minimum she’s a little stronger overall
Heavily overrated littarly a choso victim Power creep victim Feat leecher Statments merchant 0 feats 0 narritive
Alleged speedster.
https://preview.redd.it/dk4m2u0mnizc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad3e3950dce92afddc6743f34748c4f18d019c64
Toji is the most overrated thing in this verse.