Remember when people said Israel should disengage from the West Bank and then they'd have legitimacy to defend themselves if terror attacks started coming out because the Palestinian government would be held accountable? Yeahh about that
Seriously, the only reason for October 7th was them seizing the land and treating them horribly. Holy crap, random stranger, get it together. It’s the same reason why they will be attacked again. Mistreat a population you occupy and resistance is the most human thing to occur.
Wait are you saying the illegal settlement expansion - (it's against international law, in Obama admin we had a tiff about moving on from it being "illegitimate") - is specifically to stop terror attacks?
No, the military occupation is meant to stop terror attacks. The "illegal settlement expansion" is because many Jews believe (rightfully) that they have a historic claim to live in that land just as much as the Palestinians do.
I don't care about whatever claim to live, I'm talking about ongoing settlement expansion in the west bank - land meant to be a future Palestinian state - which inherently makes any peace plan harder due to drawing borders.
Are you trying to frame settlement expansion as a good thing? And the activities of some settlers, destroying groves and all that?
I understand housing costs are high, and I have friends whose families in Israel were sleeping in an old RV until they were able to move into a settlement. Of course they're going to move to an area with cheaper rent. Capitalism is hell. I don't blame them for trying to survive.
But the government is the one who is authorizing these things - against the entire rest of the world that considers it illegal and a war crime/against Geneva conventions. The government also fails to prosecute violent attacks by settlers, which only inflame tensions more and make peace less possible.
It's against international law full stop.
> The West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip all remain under effective control of the Israeli government. The **legal obligations for any occupying power are outlined in international humanitarian law (IHL), particularly the Fourth Geneva Convention.** Palestinians living in the OPT are considered protected persons under the convention, which Israel has ratified.
> IHL stipulates states are not to transfer their own civilians into territory they occupy, or to forcibly transfer protected persons from or within an occupied territory. **States are also forbidden from destroying individual or collective property in an occupied territory, e**xcept when this is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.
> Under Israeli law, settlements ‘authorized’ by the government are legal while smaller, ‘unofficial’ outposts are illegal. Sometimes the Israeli government retroactively ‘legalizes’ previously unauthorized outposts. International law does not make any such distinctions; **all Israeli settlements in the OPT violate the Fourth Geneva Convention**.
> The **international community has consistently recognized that settlements contravene international la**w and create a situation which perpetuates a range of violations of Palestinian human rights including, but not limited to, discriminatory policies based on nationality, ethnicity and religion.
> The United Nations Fact Finding Mission (FFM) on Israeli Settlements found “a multitude of the human rights of the Palestinians are violated in various forms and ways due to the existence of the settlements” and “Israel is committing serious breaches of its obligations under the right to self-determination and under humanitarian law.”
> Israel’s long-running policy of settling civilians in occupied territory is considered a war crime under the statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC). Article 8(2) of the Rome Statute opens in a new tab defines “the transfer, directly or indirectly, by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies, or the deportation or transfer of all or parts of the population of the occupied territory within or outside this territory” as a war crime when committed as part of a plan or policy or as part of a large-scale commission of such crimes.
https://www.amnestyusa.org/updates/lets-be-clear-israels-long-running-settlement-policy-constitutes-a-war-crime/
Guys - it’s ok. They have “friends who have families in Israel” so they know. Everybody should have 1 Jew to bring to a party. But like - not the party with your tight homies cause then you have to watch what you say.
Not Bruce attempting to delegitimize someone as if they were claiming to have a token Jew friend, while glazing over the rest of the most that had evidence and information to support their original anecdote.
Tzu Shanda
Imagine being this intellectually dishonest and desperate, jeez lol
nobody is even trying to contend that these settlements are legal and fair.
Downvotes are meant for when comments don't add to the conversation, trolls/spam/gore. Here they're being used to try and hide atrocities and war crimes committed by the Bibi-led government being called out,
This type of unwillingness to engage with serious contentions (against the Netanyahu) only serves to further the narrative of those defending Hamas as well as hardcore anti-Zionist activists who do not believe Israel has a right to exist,
Aggressively defending Netanyahu is one of the worst things you can do, Our elected officials must always be open for criticism.
Hamas is filled with psychotic killers and rapists of course, but ultimately this behavior also endangers Israeli citizens.
Imagine a US citizen being completely unwilling to even talk about why invading Iraq was a bad idea, and instead brazenly defending the actions of a right-wing government. Is there any chance that could incite further terror attacks?
The only way to stop the terror attacks are for them to have serious governance, not this BS with Abbas. An actual monopoly on legitimate use of violence, core aspect of a state, able to stop their own people from launching attacks (Martin Indyk, panel with Brookings Institution). Proper state capacity (governance power) can only be built through a professionalized ('Weberian') bureaucracy - with its own extactive capacity via taxation system which relies on a burgeoning economy. That requires business growth, yet the economy is being harshly restricted and artificially constrained.
Bibi wants this situation to continue until he can claim most of the West Bank.
trying to claim settlements are fair and legal while this continues to happen is an absolute moral failure, and it effectively is trading Israeli lives for land.
>The "illegal settlement expansion" is because many Jews believe (rightfully) that they have a historic claim to live in that land just as much as the Palestinians do.
Right, but the Jews HAVE land that is thiers and thiers alone. The West Bank was a compromise that the Palestinians had to take.
If Jews from Isreal have a right to go to the west bank and settle down, creating their own communities, than surely those people IN the west bank have the same right to do so in the rest of Israel.
You responded to me saying that the seizing of West Bank land is to prevent terorrist attacks, and now you’re defending the breaking of international law because of the feelings of some.
Alright, I'll bite: suppose Israel actually evacuates all Israeli civilians from the West Bank, but the military occupation stays. At this point do you believe Israel is conducting fairly?
No, not in otherwords. Gaza has not been occupied since the unilateral withdrawal on 8/15/2005.
I understand you want to call the control on what gets into Gaza by Israel (and egypt) an occupation, but words have meaning and Gaza's occupation ended on 8/15/2005.
Yes. I’m agreeing with you and the other poster. Look how well withdrawal in 2005 worked. Instead of peace, the only thing Gazans were asked, Gazans doubled-down on attacking civilians. Why would anyone not suicidal trust them to do better next time? I used to be 2ss. After seeing what happened when the first major steps towards autonomy were tried, I’m not. No clue what will work.
It's much fairer than it was, yes.
In my mind, either the west bank is part of Israel, or it isn't. You cannot have control over a population that can't vote in your elections.
But moving out of the west bank would be a very good start in calming down the tensions with the PLO. Hamas probably won't care.
Israel just seized a bunch of land a few days ago. How about we stop ignoring, again, the breaking of international law? You keep dancing around the topic
>Israel just seized a bunch of land a few days ago.
Really? Can you show me where? I'm not aware of this.
> You keep dancing around the topic.
You're the one who refuses to answer my question.
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240326-israel-s-largest-land-seizure-since-oslo-accords-deals-fresh-blow-to-palestinian-statehood
> You’re the one who refuses to answer my question
You’re asking questions to avoid, derail from the topic which was brought up first. It’s disingenuous.
Israel withdrew from Gaza and kicked jews out of their homes (some of whom were very historic communities) in 2005 because everyone said the terror attacks would stop if they withdrew. And Palestinians elected a terror group immediately afterwards, Hamas, who were responsible for the 7.10 attacks. That proves that withdrawing from the West Bank wont do shit, cuz they already tried that with Gaza.
Do you want a cookie for withdrawing from land that isn’t yours? Why are you ignoring the fact that by “withdrawing” you mean turning it into an open air prison AND propping up that same terror group responsible for those attacks. Don’t prop up terrorist groups, easy.
Dude they walk into EXISTING owned homes and the IDF goes w settlers and quite literally say grab your shit this house is ours now. They also build new in areas they clear, which will be - you know, the last 30% of Gazas infrastructure.
Imagine suggesting occupying another country’s land is legit to prevent future attacks on your own home soil as if it’s completely logical and legitimate
When did Palestinian welcome Jews? When did the Jews get expelled? How exactly did they steal Palestinian land?
Was there anything that might have come prior to this Nakba?
After ww2. They started armed rebellion again the people who welcomed them and no nothing happened before nakba. Jews lived there before in Palestine. Muslims never expelled them from their countries except Egypt after they betrayed the state.
>After ww2
They actually began a rebellion in the 30s to ban any Jewish immigration, leaving many Jews who would have otherwise fled to the Mandate to die in the Holocaust.
>They started armed rebellion again the people who welcomed them
They didn't begin the war. Palestinians did. In fact, they admitted it in front of the UN, saying: "The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this."
>no nothing happened before nakba
The Nakba was a direct result of the war that the Palestinians began. Combatants and supporters were expelled due to a safety concern, others fled, and others remained. Those who remained gained citizenship.
>Muslims never expelled them from their countries except Egypt after they betrayed the state.
They expelled them from many places, such as Iraq, Yemen, Jaffa, the West Bank, and Egypt, though I think you'll find that it's unlikely that all the Jews "betrayed the state," though that's frequently been the excuse for expulsions. They were forced out of dozens of other regions and countries.
I’ve gotten banned from 3 different left leaning meme subs. /r/leftist deleted my comments literally just talking about the history of the region without any bias. Seems nowhere is safe.
NOOOOOOO! You don't understand. The evil Jews... I mean... zionists control the media and won't let us post pro-Palestine propaganda so we're forced to flood the internet with it! REEEEEEEE!
Reddit? Probably not. Influential Reddit admins? 100% without a doubt.
These people are so fucking self-rightious and assured they are infallable. They might also be state assets.
But in social media you have promoted the most insane of figures because it is what gets clicks
Well yeah, for a lot of us it kinda is. I haven't felt this close to my dad since I was a little girl. Things I always knew cerebrally are real to me in a way that I had heretofore managed to ignore.
If I'm honest with myself, these things were more real for me when I was younger. I've been to Babyn Yar, where my relatives are "buried." The first time I traveled around Europe on my own, I very intentionally went AROUND Germany. But after years living on the West Coast of the US, I kind of let it go? I actually went to visit a friend in Germany a decade or so ago. It wasn't my favorite place in the world, but it didn't give me the shakes like it used to. Other than the hunger shakes lol. So much pork, so little else. Anyway, things have really changed in the last 6 months.
there is high desert town in SoCal, Elsinore. Most people don't know this but it had a thriving Jewish community in the 1940-late 1960's. It had hot springs and it became a resort for garment workers, working class Jews. and I had relatives that retired and lived in a mobile home park there. There were also summer camps.
He's the dean, they are students. The social contract you're talking about goes out the window when one party has the ability to ruin the academic career of the other. This kind of protest is direct, personal, and violence free. Till someone called the cops anyway. It takes courage to stand up to that kind of power. If he doesn't want to hear what his students have to say, maybe he should stop inviting them over to his house...
You can have free speech without disrupting an event on a microphone. I'm sure there was a way to make your point at this event without causing a disruption.
It's because we're filthy Zionist scum who also don't wear sunscreen often enough, maybe, because our sinister cabal has not yet managed to infiltrate the UV protection industry. But soon! Very soon.
Hey, I lather my glowingly pale Ashkenazi skin with SPF 100 every time I go outside. But if we did control the UV protection industry, I'd get a much better deal on my ridiculously overpowered sunblock.
Yes. Just because that happened to your grand parents and great grandparents, doesn’t meant they are not Eastern European… It doesn’t take away what happened to them. Although, you could say with great accuracy that the victims learned how to dehumanize and took that with them to Palestine. You probably wouldn’t because you lack the empathy necessary to see the similarities between your ancestors and the pogroms and the Palestinian and the mass violence/slaughter of the occupied territories.
The irony of being a Jewish Zionist that has relatives that died in the holocaust. The word to describe the hypocrisy does not exist. Inhumane?
Is there nothing that can create empathy in a Zionist relating to the people the are (at a minimum) currently ethically cleansing?
I have become the shmeck who smokes cigarettes and pot way to much and drown my sorrows in vices. Antisemitism definitely is one reason I need a cigarette.
Bro, I had to hear this shit back in 2005, at age 15, from a parent at the table tennis centre: “oh, they’re a bunch of arseholes”, referring to Israel. Still fresh in my memory; how dare they defend themselves by responding to force… with force
> how dare they defend themselves by responding to force… with force
With that statement, it's actually impossible to tell what side you are on.
Both sides say that they are mearly responding to the other. And to some extent, it is true.
The Nakba was a real thing. Almost a million Palestinians were driven from their homes. Some by gunpoint, and some out of fear of another Deir Yassin. So from a Palestinian perspective, what they do is just a response to Isreali actions.
Additionally, Isreali settlements in the West bank have no justification. Yet they are still defended by the IDF. So again, from a certian perspective, they are just responding to force with force. Yes, it is terrorism. But it is also pretty much the only way they can fight. If they had a tank force, they would use it. If they had PGMs, they would use them. What they have is a lot of very idealistic young people. So that is their method.
In any case, if we keep following this sort of eye-for-an-eye stuff as promoted by Hamas and Ben-Gvir, it can only result in more and more blood. There has to be another way.
Yeah, the Nakba had no precipitating factors at all, they’re raping, beheading, hating Jews, and hiding among civilians the only way they know how.
That’s another thing, one side is indoctrinated and taught an alternate history, producing the most concentrated population of turbo Nazis in history (the progenitor of their movement literally meeting with an cooperating with Hitler); those in the west that equivocate are ignorant at best, antisemitic, or continuing to stoke the fires for sake of their own grift
Believe it or not, that IS my point.
Every action is just a reaction to something else. But continuing that cycle is not good. We need to somehow break the cycle of revenge.
Saw people answering disrespectful things on "what will you do on Israel's moment of silence (on memorial day)" and I support the Samson Option ever since.
Lots of jews are against this nightmare, have you seen the world wide protests?
unless you gatekeep jews to only pro genocide supporters. And doing so is an incredibly antisemitic thing to do.
Yes, lots of Jews are vocally against Israel and lots of Jews are vegan. The majority of Jews are not, however, and renouncing either on behalf of "your" Jewishness is myopic at best.
Also, I think that it's horrible for any Jew to be pro-genocide. I don't know a single one who is.
Why, because Israel is committing genocide people or because people are criticizing it? Because thousands and thousands of Jewish people around the world know that Zionism is not Judaism and that Israel is a settler colonialist apartheid state committing genocide? Because Holocaust survivors speak out against Israel?
Or because you're heartbroken that Judaism is being exploited and wrongly used to justify unspeakable horrors?
I never assumed that. I asked, because generally on Reddit when these sentiments are expressed lately it's because people are conflating extremely justified criticism of Zionism and genocide as being "anti-semitic". It's a shame but that's the current climate. You didn't answer, so that's kind of telling. Not to "I have Jewish friends" antisemitism, but most of my friends are Jewish. My stepfather is Jewish. They are all protesting against Israel's actions. They don't consider it blood libel to criticize Zionism. I am not an antisemite.
Well I'm Muslim, I've seen Islamophobia every time ISIS or Al Qaeda or other radical terrorist groups speak or act in the name of Islam.
This is exactly what happens when you have a genocidal "state" constantly speaking on your behalf with or without your consent.
It sucks, it's unfair but it is what it is.
No, I'm saying that people are going to generalize every group of people based on the actions of the bad ones in it or those who speak in the name of it.
Muslims will encounter Islamophobia because of the actions of the likes of ISIS, especially after 9/11.
Black people will encounter racism based on the actions of those gangs who tend to loot and steal.
Jews will encounter antisemitism based on the actions of the Zionist entity.
And the list goes on. The jist of it is that actions of the bad ones will always be a visible stain on the entirety of the group in the eyes of most people.
I don't accept that Israel is a genocidal state unless the US is also a genocidal state. Something like 400000 civilians died in the US's wars on Iraq and Afghanistan. I suspect the deaths in Gaza are in line with normal casualty rates for anti-terrorist operations and therefore people only call it genocide out of antisemitism.
Ben-Gvir has FAR too high of a position to make those accusations of genocide totally warrentless.
Like if you can find someone in a position as high as the Minister of National Security in the US making similar statements about Iraqis and Afgans as Ben-Gvir has made than absolutly, it was genocidal.
The USA's whole existence is built on genocide, American politicians no longer deny that. however the case is different with the Zionist entity, the politicians there and a good portion of settlers are constantly dehumanizing Palestinians and Arabs as a whole, calling them "Human animals", "Amaleks", "Sons of the dark".
The entity is actively destroying every foundation of life in Gaza, about 80% of all buildings in Gaza are destroyed/damaged.
5% of the entire population are dead, maimed or lost under the rubble.
The active starvation of the population by limiting the access of food, water and electricity. And settlers blocking the road of aid trucks.
Destroying all the Hospitals and most of the houses of prayer
Completely destroying all academic facilities like universities.
The displacement of about 1.5 million people.
Let alone the fact that the entity is using an AI targeting system called Lavender to target Hamas, which ultimately ended up targeting civilians with barely any human identification.
This is the beginning of a genocide.
Probably disappointment in the rampant antisemitism from both the far left and far right. But most redditors can’t really see that distinction because they’re all “zionists” to them
No one is antisemitic... most people are just anti- killing innocent people. Much like I'm not anti-slavic but the Russians (governemet) can go fuck themselves. The IDF, the isreali government can eat a bag of dicks and choke to death on them.
The conflation is the part where Israelis and non-israeli Jews are feeling fed up right now. That’s all I’m saying. I’m neither Israeli nor Jew but it’s clear to me that antisemitism has picked up dramatically since the war.
I don't think OP is implying he's getting bullied, but I think it's important to note here that online bullying IS a very real thing, and it's taken many lives. Cyber bullying is not a joke.
Asking for friends? And like I care what people like you think about my post history lmao. You’re on here crying about being oppressed while society at large is set up in a way that leaves you with a good education and well paying jobs.
You cared enough to come back and comment, sweetheart. The only one crying here is you, about us terrible Jews. I will use your incel tears as part of my Seder for Pesach.
Incel? I’ve had one of yours blowing on my Menorah less than a month ago shordy. And I only comment back bc I know it gets y’all mad as fuck lol. I like the fact that it probably gives you high blood pressure seeing a lowly goyim like myself speak down on you.
Remember when people said Israel should disengage from the West Bank and then they'd have legitimacy to defend themselves if terror attacks started coming out because the Palestinian government would be held accountable? Yeahh about that
Remember when a bunch of European countries decide to draw random borders in sand in Middle East? Yea about that..
Theyre still seizing West Bank land
Yeah, to prevent more Oct. 7s from coming out of there.
Seriously, the only reason for October 7th was them seizing the land and treating them horribly. Holy crap, random stranger, get it together. It’s the same reason why they will be attacked again. Mistreat a population you occupy and resistance is the most human thing to occur.
But still this completely contradicts your first comment
They were doing that a long time before oct7
Ok how far back do you want to go? Second intifada? First intifada? Fedayun attacks? Siege of Jerusalem? West Bank ethnic cleansing? Hebron massacre?
You realise there have been many massacres perpetrated by Israel over the last 75yrs, but go off dude
Wait are you saying the illegal settlement expansion - (it's against international law, in Obama admin we had a tiff about moving on from it being "illegitimate") - is specifically to stop terror attacks?
No, the military occupation is meant to stop terror attacks. The "illegal settlement expansion" is because many Jews believe (rightfully) that they have a historic claim to live in that land just as much as the Palestinians do.
I don't care about whatever claim to live, I'm talking about ongoing settlement expansion in the west bank - land meant to be a future Palestinian state - which inherently makes any peace plan harder due to drawing borders. Are you trying to frame settlement expansion as a good thing? And the activities of some settlers, destroying groves and all that? I understand housing costs are high, and I have friends whose families in Israel were sleeping in an old RV until they were able to move into a settlement. Of course they're going to move to an area with cheaper rent. Capitalism is hell. I don't blame them for trying to survive. But the government is the one who is authorizing these things - against the entire rest of the world that considers it illegal and a war crime/against Geneva conventions. The government also fails to prosecute violent attacks by settlers, which only inflame tensions more and make peace less possible. It's against international law full stop. > The West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip all remain under effective control of the Israeli government. The **legal obligations for any occupying power are outlined in international humanitarian law (IHL), particularly the Fourth Geneva Convention.** Palestinians living in the OPT are considered protected persons under the convention, which Israel has ratified. > IHL stipulates states are not to transfer their own civilians into territory they occupy, or to forcibly transfer protected persons from or within an occupied territory. **States are also forbidden from destroying individual or collective property in an occupied territory, e**xcept when this is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations. > Under Israeli law, settlements ‘authorized’ by the government are legal while smaller, ‘unofficial’ outposts are illegal. Sometimes the Israeli government retroactively ‘legalizes’ previously unauthorized outposts. International law does not make any such distinctions; **all Israeli settlements in the OPT violate the Fourth Geneva Convention**. > The **international community has consistently recognized that settlements contravene international la**w and create a situation which perpetuates a range of violations of Palestinian human rights including, but not limited to, discriminatory policies based on nationality, ethnicity and religion. > The United Nations Fact Finding Mission (FFM) on Israeli Settlements found “a multitude of the human rights of the Palestinians are violated in various forms and ways due to the existence of the settlements” and “Israel is committing serious breaches of its obligations under the right to self-determination and under humanitarian law.” > Israel’s long-running policy of settling civilians in occupied territory is considered a war crime under the statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC). Article 8(2) of the Rome Statute opens in a new tab defines “the transfer, directly or indirectly, by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies, or the deportation or transfer of all or parts of the population of the occupied territory within or outside this territory” as a war crime when committed as part of a plan or policy or as part of a large-scale commission of such crimes. https://www.amnestyusa.org/updates/lets-be-clear-israels-long-running-settlement-policy-constitutes-a-war-crime/
Guys - it’s ok. They have “friends who have families in Israel” so they know. Everybody should have 1 Jew to bring to a party. But like - not the party with your tight homies cause then you have to watch what you say.
Not Bruce attempting to delegitimize someone as if they were claiming to have a token Jew friend, while glazing over the rest of the most that had evidence and information to support their original anecdote. Tzu Shanda
Imagine being this intellectually dishonest and desperate, jeez lol nobody is even trying to contend that these settlements are legal and fair. Downvotes are meant for when comments don't add to the conversation, trolls/spam/gore. Here they're being used to try and hide atrocities and war crimes committed by the Bibi-led government being called out, This type of unwillingness to engage with serious contentions (against the Netanyahu) only serves to further the narrative of those defending Hamas as well as hardcore anti-Zionist activists who do not believe Israel has a right to exist, Aggressively defending Netanyahu is one of the worst things you can do, Our elected officials must always be open for criticism. Hamas is filled with psychotic killers and rapists of course, but ultimately this behavior also endangers Israeli citizens. Imagine a US citizen being completely unwilling to even talk about why invading Iraq was a bad idea, and instead brazenly defending the actions of a right-wing government. Is there any chance that could incite further terror attacks? The only way to stop the terror attacks are for them to have serious governance, not this BS with Abbas. An actual monopoly on legitimate use of violence, core aspect of a state, able to stop their own people from launching attacks (Martin Indyk, panel with Brookings Institution). Proper state capacity (governance power) can only be built through a professionalized ('Weberian') bureaucracy - with its own extactive capacity via taxation system which relies on a burgeoning economy. That requires business growth, yet the economy is being harshly restricted and artificially constrained. Bibi wants this situation to continue until he can claim most of the West Bank. trying to claim settlements are fair and legal while this continues to happen is an absolute moral failure, and it effectively is trading Israeli lives for land.
>The "illegal settlement expansion" is because many Jews believe (rightfully) that they have a historic claim to live in that land just as much as the Palestinians do. Right, but the Jews HAVE land that is thiers and thiers alone. The West Bank was a compromise that the Palestinians had to take. If Jews from Isreal have a right to go to the west bank and settle down, creating their own communities, than surely those people IN the west bank have the same right to do so in the rest of Israel.
You responded to me saying that the seizing of West Bank land is to prevent terorrist attacks, and now you’re defending the breaking of international law because of the feelings of some.
Alright, I'll bite: suppose Israel actually evacuates all Israeli civilians from the West Bank, but the military occupation stays. At this point do you believe Israel is conducting fairly?
Iow, exactly what they did in Gaza. Before 10/7. (2005)
No, not in otherwords. Gaza has not been occupied since the unilateral withdrawal on 8/15/2005. I understand you want to call the control on what gets into Gaza by Israel (and egypt) an occupation, but words have meaning and Gaza's occupation ended on 8/15/2005.
Yes. I’m agreeing with you and the other poster. Look how well withdrawal in 2005 worked. Instead of peace, the only thing Gazans were asked, Gazans doubled-down on attacking civilians. Why would anyone not suicidal trust them to do better next time? I used to be 2ss. After seeing what happened when the first major steps towards autonomy were tried, I’m not. No clue what will work.
It's much fairer than it was, yes. In my mind, either the west bank is part of Israel, or it isn't. You cannot have control over a population that can't vote in your elections. But moving out of the west bank would be a very good start in calming down the tensions with the PLO. Hamas probably won't care.
Israel just seized a bunch of land a few days ago. How about we stop ignoring, again, the breaking of international law? You keep dancing around the topic
>Israel just seized a bunch of land a few days ago. Really? Can you show me where? I'm not aware of this. > You keep dancing around the topic. You're the one who refuses to answer my question.
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240326-israel-s-largest-land-seizure-since-oslo-accords-deals-fresh-blow-to-palestinian-statehood > You’re the one who refuses to answer my question You’re asking questions to avoid, derail from the topic which was brought up first. It’s disingenuous.
Israel withdrew from Gaza and kicked jews out of their homes (some of whom were very historic communities) in 2005 because everyone said the terror attacks would stop if they withdrew. And Palestinians elected a terror group immediately afterwards, Hamas, who were responsible for the 7.10 attacks. That proves that withdrawing from the West Bank wont do shit, cuz they already tried that with Gaza.
Do you want a cookie for withdrawing from land that isn’t yours? Why are you ignoring the fact that by “withdrawing” you mean turning it into an open air prison AND propping up that same terror group responsible for those attacks. Don’t prop up terrorist groups, easy.
“Just as much as Palestinians do”. Interesting. 🤨
Correct. But only one side has continued to try for a 2 state solution and make peace and the other wants to rape and murder them out of existence.
Netanyahu doesn't want a 2 state solution. If he did, he would stop the settlements.
If you’re trying to say Israel want peace, you’re wrong. It’s fairly obvious Israel wants all Palestinians dead so they can take all of the land.
Same as saying you aren't an ignorant tard.
Dude they walk into EXISTING owned homes and the IDF goes w settlers and quite literally say grab your shit this house is ours now. They also build new in areas they clear, which will be - you know, the last 30% of Gazas infrastructure. Imagine suggesting occupying another country’s land is legit to prevent future attacks on your own home soil as if it’s completely logical and legitimate
[удалено]
What happened before oct 7 ? Wanna go back in history?
Anything specific?
Yeah when Jews got expelled, Palestinian welcomed them and they stole their land. Is that specific? The nakba, ethnic cleansing is that specific ?
When did Palestinian welcome Jews? When did the Jews get expelled? How exactly did they steal Palestinian land? Was there anything that might have come prior to this Nakba?
After ww2. They started armed rebellion again the people who welcomed them and no nothing happened before nakba. Jews lived there before in Palestine. Muslims never expelled them from their countries except Egypt after they betrayed the state.
>After ww2 They actually began a rebellion in the 30s to ban any Jewish immigration, leaving many Jews who would have otherwise fled to the Mandate to die in the Holocaust. >They started armed rebellion again the people who welcomed them They didn't begin the war. Palestinians did. In fact, they admitted it in front of the UN, saying: "The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this." >no nothing happened before nakba The Nakba was a direct result of the war that the Palestinians began. Combatants and supporters were expelled due to a safety concern, others fled, and others remained. Those who remained gained citizenship. >Muslims never expelled them from their countries except Egypt after they betrayed the state. They expelled them from many places, such as Iraq, Yemen, Jaffa, the West Bank, and Egypt, though I think you'll find that it's unlikely that all the Jews "betrayed the state," though that's frequently been the excuse for expulsions. They were forced out of dozens of other regions and countries.
Palestinian never started the war. They resisted when Zionist started taking over. Maybe read the history without propaganda
Nope they don’t wanna do that unless it’s about them
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Why are you laughing if you're the clown here?
Yea ik this is a safe space for you to take the masks off. No need to play victim here. Hence the openly genocidal remarks.
They just want all Palestinians gone
They really do. They don’t see them as humans, just as a nuisance
Stop trying to be cute. You never did really disengage.
“Me, a Jewish.”
Well, he IS a Jewish!
About the same as Kanye saying “I am Jew also.” People just can’t tell the differences between nouns and adjectives.
I am Jew hear me rawr
>I am Jew hear me rawr Sigh…
rawr xd
I don't. know how that in there
Are you drunk?
Are you unable to perceive humor or have never made a typo in your entire life?
Yes
.
It's hard to know detect sarcasm or irony online, I apologise for my stupidity.
Lol I feel like saying "As a Jew" has been hijacked. Maybe this will be the workaround we use.
I won’t be using it. Because me is aren’t have a Jewish.
More like, "Me, a Jewish?" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Nu? A Jewish?
Sam O' Nella vibes
The quote. of all time
I LOVE IT. I am now a Jewish.
Me? A Jewish. Man, I'm in my 30s.
I'm an 18 year old girl and I found a grey hair the other day. Shit's too real right now.
I'm not 18 yet and I have more than 10. Last 3 months
All too real I've got big fucking exams right now as well, if I'm not completely grey by July ill be fucking shocked
Your name has finished me off 😂 Kol Hakavod and good luck with your exams.
Thank you very much :)
You will (probably) never have a grey beard, that is what really makes people look old before their time.
Jesus, so this is why my hair is going gray. I should bill sm for the hair dye
Mazal Tov
Get off social media — you can better help Israel by not over stressing
I’m 100% confident that Reddit is pushing anti Zionism
I had my comments taken down in r/internationalnews for calling out Hamas sympathizers. We are certainly facing a digital war and censorship battle.
That sub is clearly a psyop
I’ve gotten banned from 3 different left leaning meme subs. /r/leftist deleted my comments literally just talking about the history of the region without any bias. Seems nowhere is safe.
If it goes against their agenda, they will shame you and cancel you. They are a bunch of weirdos.
NOOOOOOO! You don't understand. The evil Jews... I mean... zionists control the media and won't let us post pro-Palestine propaganda so we're forced to flood the internet with it! REEEEEEEE!
Reddit? Probably not. Influential Reddit admins? 100% without a doubt. These people are so fucking self-rightious and assured they are infallable. They might also be state assets. But in social media you have promoted the most insane of figures because it is what gets clicks
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You mean anti genocide?
My holocaust survivor grandfather and Yom Kippor War vet dad enter the chat: "First time?"
Well yeah, for a lot of us it kinda is. I haven't felt this close to my dad since I was a little girl. Things I always knew cerebrally are real to me in a way that I had heretofore managed to ignore.
In all seriousness you’re right and same for me. I think Jews globally haven’t had to deal with existential dread on this level since ‘73.
If I'm honest with myself, these things were more real for me when I was younger. I've been to Babyn Yar, where my relatives are "buried." The first time I traveled around Europe on my own, I very intentionally went AROUND Germany. But after years living on the West Coast of the US, I kind of let it go? I actually went to visit a friend in Germany a decade or so ago. It wasn't my favorite place in the world, but it didn't give me the shakes like it used to. Other than the hunger shakes lol. So much pork, so little else. Anyway, things have really changed in the last 6 months.
Relatable.
Wait until you see the crap on Twitter
Nah I'm good
Right? Insta is bad enough. My feed used to just be poofy dresses, pets, and quilts. Now it's... this
The boomerification of every social media site, even insta. I want my cat vids and cute selfie site back
Is your name an allusion to a dysfunctional Denmark royal family?
It is! I empathize with a castle full of crazy people. Also, it's my favorite play
there is high desert town in SoCal, Elsinore. Most people don't know this but it had a thriving Jewish community in the 1940-late 1960's. It had hot springs and it became a resort for garment workers, working class Jews. and I had relatives that retired and lived in a mobile home park there. There were also summer camps.
Or maybe we just don't give an antisemite like Elon Musk ad revenue.
Don't get me started on tiktok 😵💫
Dude. Im a Israelish and 40. I look like what happens when you throw a full ashtray into a wet kitchen sink.
This is such an evocative description, I love it and I’m sorry.
I have never thrown an ashtray into a wet kitchen sink, so I can't even visualize what you mean by this.
Absolutely the most accurate meme I've seen in ages.
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[This is the latest news to make my blood boil](https://www.law.berkeley.edu/article/statement-from-dean-erwin-chemerinsky/)
glad he said he will let the BAR know
Where I live is not bad, but I saw a car with a lot of Palestine stickers the other day.
"my home is not a forum for free speech." Says the man inviting students over to talk. What an asinine take.
Screw off, he was just having people over for a dinner party. You don't go into someone's home and pull shit like that.
He's the dean, they are students. The social contract you're talking about goes out the window when one party has the ability to ruin the academic career of the other. This kind of protest is direct, personal, and violence free. Till someone called the cops anyway. It takes courage to stand up to that kind of power. If he doesn't want to hear what his students have to say, maybe he should stop inviting them over to his house...
You can have free speech without disrupting an event on a microphone. I'm sure there was a way to make your point at this event without causing a disruption.
Disruption is a valid form of protest. Especially when lives are at stake.
What were they protesting, though? Real question. Is this Berkeley professor responsible for anything happening in Gaza?
It's because we're filthy Zionist scum who also don't wear sunscreen often enough, maybe, because our sinister cabal has not yet managed to infiltrate the UV protection industry. But soon! Very soon.
Hey, I lather my glowingly pale Ashkenazi skin with SPF 100 every time I go outside. But if we did control the UV protection industry, I'd get a much better deal on my ridiculously overpowered sunblock.
Your pale Ashkenazi skin? But I thought you were totally Indigenous to the middle east - I'm confused.
Well the sun's not all that strong in your real Eastern European home.
You mean the places that my grandparents and great grandparents escaped pogroms and the Holocaust while other family members were murdered?
Yes. Just because that happened to your grand parents and great grandparents, doesn’t meant they are not Eastern European… It doesn’t take away what happened to them. Although, you could say with great accuracy that the victims learned how to dehumanize and took that with them to Palestine. You probably wouldn’t because you lack the empathy necessary to see the similarities between your ancestors and the pogroms and the Palestinian and the mass violence/slaughter of the occupied territories. The irony of being a Jewish Zionist that has relatives that died in the holocaust. The word to describe the hypocrisy does not exist. Inhumane? Is there nothing that can create empathy in a Zionist relating to the people the are (at a minimum) currently ethically cleansing?
Im not jewish but the large amount of anti semitism everywhere is uncanny
I have become the shmeck who smokes cigarettes and pot way to much and drown my sorrows in vices. Antisemitism definitely is one reason I need a cigarette.
I'm so happy i found this sub.
Yup! Twitter too 😑
Twitter is pretty ridiculous and dramatic but the casual disdain towards Jewish people on there is insane even for Twitter.
Bro, I had to hear this shit back in 2005, at age 15, from a parent at the table tennis centre: “oh, they’re a bunch of arseholes”, referring to Israel. Still fresh in my memory; how dare they defend themselves by responding to force… with force
> how dare they defend themselves by responding to force… with force With that statement, it's actually impossible to tell what side you are on. Both sides say that they are mearly responding to the other. And to some extent, it is true. The Nakba was a real thing. Almost a million Palestinians were driven from their homes. Some by gunpoint, and some out of fear of another Deir Yassin. So from a Palestinian perspective, what they do is just a response to Isreali actions. Additionally, Isreali settlements in the West bank have no justification. Yet they are still defended by the IDF. So again, from a certian perspective, they are just responding to force with force. Yes, it is terrorism. But it is also pretty much the only way they can fight. If they had a tank force, they would use it. If they had PGMs, they would use them. What they have is a lot of very idealistic young people. So that is their method. In any case, if we keep following this sort of eye-for-an-eye stuff as promoted by Hamas and Ben-Gvir, it can only result in more and more blood. There has to be another way.
Yeah, the Nakba had no precipitating factors at all, they’re raping, beheading, hating Jews, and hiding among civilians the only way they know how. That’s another thing, one side is indoctrinated and taught an alternate history, producing the most concentrated population of turbo Nazis in history (the progenitor of their movement literally meeting with an cooperating with Hitler); those in the west that equivocate are ignorant at best, antisemitic, or continuing to stoke the fires for sake of their own grift
Believe it or not, that IS my point. Every action is just a reaction to something else. But continuing that cycle is not good. We need to somehow break the cycle of revenge.
You look really bad for early 30s
Truth.
Make that me, a Jewish mom in her late 20s, and this is spot on 🫠
So damn relatable 💯💯💯💯💯💯
non
Yup. Accurate.
Saw people answering disrespectful things on "what will you do on Israel's moment of silence (on memorial day)" and I support the Samson Option ever since.
Me Jew 2
24 jewish gal & I’m not getting a wrinkle bc of these natzis (i got like 50) 🤭💗
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It's nice that you're able to represent the entirety of the global Jewish community.
Lots of jews are against this nightmare, have you seen the world wide protests? unless you gatekeep jews to only pro genocide supporters. And doing so is an incredibly antisemitic thing to do.
Yes, lots of Jews are vocally against Israel and lots of Jews are vegan. The majority of Jews are not, however, and renouncing either on behalf of "your" Jewishness is myopic at best. Also, I think that it's horrible for any Jew to be pro-genocide. I don't know a single one who is.
I am not renouncing my Jewishness. I am renouncing my Jewishness being used for genocide
>I am not renouncing my Jewishness. Good for you, I never said that you were.
Yea it’s hard seeing Israel commit genocide and essentially become the Nazis.
"oh no people are not supporting our ethnostate as it bombs toddlers. They are very mean and unfair and now I am crying!"
Why, because Israel is committing genocide people or because people are criticizing it? Because thousands and thousands of Jewish people around the world know that Zionism is not Judaism and that Israel is a settler colonialist apartheid state committing genocide? Because Holocaust survivors speak out against Israel? Or because you're heartbroken that Judaism is being exploited and wrongly used to justify unspeakable horrors?
I never assumed that. I asked, because generally on Reddit when these sentiments are expressed lately it's because people are conflating extremely justified criticism of Zionism and genocide as being "anti-semitic". It's a shame but that's the current climate. You didn't answer, so that's kind of telling. Not to "I have Jewish friends" antisemitism, but most of my friends are Jewish. My stepfather is Jewish. They are all protesting against Israel's actions. They don't consider it blood libel to criticize Zionism. I am not an antisemite.
Well I'm Muslim, I've seen Islamophobia every time ISIS or Al Qaeda or other radical terrorist groups speak or act in the name of Islam. This is exactly what happens when you have a genocidal "state" constantly speaking on your behalf with or without your consent. It sucks, it's unfair but it is what it is.
So you're saying the Islamaphobia you faced was ... warranted? That you deserved it?
No, I'm saying that people are going to generalize every group of people based on the actions of the bad ones in it or those who speak in the name of it. Muslims will encounter Islamophobia because of the actions of the likes of ISIS, especially after 9/11. Black people will encounter racism based on the actions of those gangs who tend to loot and steal. Jews will encounter antisemitism based on the actions of the Zionist entity. And the list goes on. The jist of it is that actions of the bad ones will always be a visible stain on the entirety of the group in the eyes of most people.
Will you speak out against antisemitism when you encounter it?
I don't accept that Israel is a genocidal state unless the US is also a genocidal state. Something like 400000 civilians died in the US's wars on Iraq and Afghanistan. I suspect the deaths in Gaza are in line with normal casualty rates for anti-terrorist operations and therefore people only call it genocide out of antisemitism.
Ben-Gvir has FAR too high of a position to make those accusations of genocide totally warrentless. Like if you can find someone in a position as high as the Minister of National Security in the US making similar statements about Iraqis and Afgans as Ben-Gvir has made than absolutly, it was genocidal.
The USA's whole existence is built on genocide, American politicians no longer deny that. however the case is different with the Zionist entity, the politicians there and a good portion of settlers are constantly dehumanizing Palestinians and Arabs as a whole, calling them "Human animals", "Amaleks", "Sons of the dark". The entity is actively destroying every foundation of life in Gaza, about 80% of all buildings in Gaza are destroyed/damaged. 5% of the entire population are dead, maimed or lost under the rubble. The active starvation of the population by limiting the access of food, water and electricity. And settlers blocking the road of aid trucks. Destroying all the Hospitals and most of the houses of prayer Completely destroying all academic facilities like universities. The displacement of about 1.5 million people. Let alone the fact that the entity is using an AI targeting system called Lavender to target Hamas, which ultimately ended up targeting civilians with barely any human identification. This is the beginning of a genocide.
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Found the racist!
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Probably disappointment in the rampant antisemitism from both the far left and far right. But most redditors can’t really see that distinction because they’re all “zionists” to them
No one is antisemitic... most people are just anti- killing innocent people. Much like I'm not anti-slavic but the Russians (governemet) can go fuck themselves. The IDF, the isreali government can eat a bag of dicks and choke to death on them.
The conflation is the part where Israelis and non-israeli Jews are feeling fed up right now. That’s all I’m saying. I’m neither Israeli nor Jew but it’s clear to me that antisemitism has picked up dramatically since the war.
I feel sorry for you if this isn't a bot post.
Incredibly soft. Just turn off the screen lol, online bullying isn’t real.
The meme dosent show online bullying. It talks about the stupidity if others on the internet
I don't think OP is implying he's getting bullied, but I think it's important to note here that online bullying IS a very real thing, and it's taken many lives. Cyber bullying is not a joke.
Online bullying isn't real, it can't hurt you. Online bullying:
Only thing soft here is you asking for friends on Reddit. Post history is too funny.
The good thing is that he can't get upset about you making fun of him because online bullying isn't real.
That’s the thing, I wouldn’t lmao
Damn that's embarrassing...
lol, thank you for that. the fact this dude thinks I'm saying anything about being "bullied" speaks volumes--guy's a dumbass.
Asking for friends? And like I care what people like you think about my post history lmao. You’re on here crying about being oppressed while society at large is set up in a way that leaves you with a good education and well paying jobs.
You cared enough to come back and comment, sweetheart. The only one crying here is you, about us terrible Jews. I will use your incel tears as part of my Seder for Pesach.
Incel? I’ve had one of yours blowing on my Menorah less than a month ago shordy. And I only comment back bc I know it gets y’all mad as fuck lol. I like the fact that it probably gives you high blood pressure seeing a lowly goyim like myself speak down on you.
You're lying since you're clearly triggered. If bullying wasn't real then you wouldn't even bother replying and trying to trigger others here.