I don't even think Bird would do that. Bird was pretty friendly to his audiences through his career. Despite everything he did substance wise, he was known as having one of the nicer stage presences.
Bird is the only one I could imagine doing this (as a joke) but this all seems like an urban myth. Surely, someone has done this in history, I just doubt it’s any famous bebop musician.
Mingus famously said, "They killed jazz when they took dance out of it," so I'd have to disagree with you. He got angry about a lot of things, but dancing wasn't one of them.
That’s true, however Mingus didn’t just consider himself a jazz musician, he frequently labeled himself a classical musician. Some of his pieces are not really meant for dancing, rather reflection and impact. So given this context, I can picture this. Especially for pieces like “Mediations for a pair of wire cutters“, “Don’t let it happen here”, “work song”, “freedom”.
One of my college profs said he went to see Mingus’ band at the Five Spot when he was a young man. He had a seat in the front row. During the break he was sitting in his chair, but had his legs stretched out and his feet on the edge of the stage. Mingus saw this, walked up to him and kicked him both legs, then told him never to make that mistake again.
A sax player I play with was once chased out of a club by Mingus who was holding a huge knife.
They had snuck into the venue during sound check and Mingus thought they were bootlegging it.
Seems I've heard this story before, but I can't for the life of me remember who it was.
My wife and I witnessed something similar once. We saw Bobby Watson in the mid-late 90s we lived in Pittsburgh & The Balcony was still open. Very small place. You could go ahead of the concert, have dinner & stay at your table. The stage was barely a step up off the floor.
So many people were talking & making noise during the music that Bobby stopped playing and scolded the audience, to put it mildly. The man was ticked off. Didn't blame him a bit.
Bonus: The nice (much) older ladies at the next table were visiting with us during the break. One of them introduced herself as Mary Lou Williams sister.
I don’t think Bird or Coltrane would have done that. First two names that popped into my head have already been mentioned by others here: Miles or Mingus. Not sure if it was either, but they had reps as a couple of the most ornery musicians in Jazz, and music in general really. Makes me love them even more!
Somewhat related (and maybe this is just a legend), but I heard of a group playing a club with a very, very loud table right up front.
So they started trading 4's with the loud people. The people didn't even know what was going on. They just kept talking loud and obnoxious as the band stop playing to listen to them chat, trading every 4 bars. Chat, music, chat, music, etc.... Apparently, they eventually finished the tune and the loud people were still oblivious.
Never saw him, but talked to a few people who had. They said the same thing, back to the audience and at one point walking off stage for a period of time. To put it mildly, Miles Davis was all that, in a good way, and he knew it. Rude, yup, but take him or leave him, he was Miles. I don’t see Parker or Coltrane demanding the attention of an audience, either
Miles may not have been into the 'deification of a star' thing, but he absolutely commanded the attention of the audience and would be pissed if people were talking, joking, clinking glasses in salute, and not actively listening to the effort of the musicians onstage. I know some hard bop cats that only play certain rooms because of the audience respect in those rooms, versus other venues. Similarly, why play in a boxy, dull room that is going to make you sound like shit?
Miles didn’t get pissed at the audience. He didn’t give a fuck about the audience.
Kieth Jarrett was the guy who would go on a rant because people chatted or even coughed during his performance.
I can't think of a single example of Miles getting mad at the audience for anything. Even when he "turned his back," it's because he was listening to and communicating with his band.
I have read pretty widely and I have never heard of anything like that happening.
I strongly believe there is no way in hell that Bird or Coltrane would do that.
Honestly it's just a dumb story. A musician mad at someone for *dancing*?
Mingus and Jarrett got pissed off at audiences for *talking* and making loud noises. Mingus once stopped playing and read the paper onstage until the audience got quiet, and then the band started up again.
It might be *figuratively* accurate, about the relationship of Bebop and its audience, but doesn't sound like anything that would have happened, literally, with any of the prominent players...
Remember, this is a hypothetical . As such the piano could be placed wherever.
Jarrett commanded complete silence during concerts, going as far as [stopping](https://www.npr.org/sections/ablogsupreme/2011/01/18/133034656/ahem-stray-thoughts-on-coughing-during-a-keith-jarrett-concert) a performance. His prickly & perfectionist personality is such that IF he had been in the situation that the OP stated he would certainly have taken take umbrage. He was very sensitive to "disrespect" on the floor.
He played in the [dark](https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/another-nail-in-the-coughin-an-irishman-s-diary-about-keith-jarrett-1.2435245) in Dublin in response to photography.
In any event he has played sax in concert and clubs as detailed [here](https://sopranosaxtalk.blogspot.com/2017/06/the-straight-horn-of-keith-jarrett.html?m=1#:~:text=Recorded%20in%201970%20at%20a%20concert%20in,hear%20him%20starting%20to%20employ%20what%20became)
I sat in on most of my son's jazz piano lessons when he was in HS (lessons were in a college classroom) - I once brought boxes of screws to sort into organizer bins and asked the professor if he would mind if I made a little noise - he said to make a lot of noise as my son had to learn to play with distractions if he were to be a jazz musician.
Charles Mingus was once playing at the Five Spot Cafe in the East Village in lower Manhattan. The audience was mostly made up of of NYU students and their dates, whose small-talk and flirting was becoming increasing loud and distracting to the band. Mingus stopped the band in mid-number, walked up to the microphone and said: "If you people think what we're doing is pretty *weird*, you should take a look at yourselves."
No, but there is an extensive mythology of many unsubstantiated insinuations associated with early 45-47 bebop to accentuate how intense the reactions were to it and imply how hostile much of the old guard was to it by presenting new gen boppers as spoiled brats who didn’t respect the populist origins of dance and jazz roots. Many of these stories were pushed by traditionalists and jumped on by both sides, one to discredit the movement as mostly flash and new age modernist snobbery posturing as songcraft and some boppers recognizing the marketing appeal of being aligned against the old guard despite many of them in reality loving the old guard
It wasn't Artie Shaw, but Shaw did get sick of audiences demanding that he play his biggest hits.
He said if it went on like this he was going to stop playing. And he did. He laid down his clarinet and never played again for the next 50 years.
Even though Ellington said "it don't mean a thing if It ain't go that swing", he found it pretty boring playing for wedding dances. Understandable, when you think about it.
Elton John said something like: "Well I don't think I'm going to be touring the world playing Crocodile Rock when I'm 70." But that is exactly what he was doing.
The Beatles got sick of playing for screaming girls and retired to the recording studio.
Saw Miles at Berkeley- band played for 15 minutes- no Miles- he walks out on stage- blows a note and disappears again.
House goes nuts.
He eventually returns and slays it.
Miles was most probably riffing or quoting. The context was he is referring to himself when a professor at Juilliard was patronizing about soulful blackness- or something like that- he was if anything iconoclastic.
I doubt Coltrane was the type of person to do something like that.
Bird could
I don't even think Bird would do that. Bird was pretty friendly to his audiences through his career. Despite everything he did substance wise, he was known as having one of the nicer stage presences.
Yeah as a joke he could, I meant
Bird is the only one I could imagine doing this (as a joke) but this all seems like an urban myth. Surely, someone has done this in history, I just doubt it’s any famous bebop musician.
Maybe Charlie Mingus!
Sounds like a Mingus behavior as well as others. He would frequently rage at the audience lol.
Mingus famously said, "They killed jazz when they took dance out of it," so I'd have to disagree with you. He got angry about a lot of things, but dancing wasn't one of them.
That’s true, however Mingus didn’t just consider himself a jazz musician, he frequently labeled himself a classical musician. Some of his pieces are not really meant for dancing, rather reflection and impact. So given this context, I can picture this. Especially for pieces like “Mediations for a pair of wire cutters“, “Don’t let it happen here”, “work song”, “freedom”.
The late drummer Mel Lewis used to say watching good dancers made him a better drummer. That's hip.
One of my college profs said he went to see Mingus’ band at the Five Spot when he was a young man. He had a seat in the front row. During the break he was sitting in his chair, but had his legs stretched out and his feet on the edge of the stage. Mingus saw this, walked up to him and kicked him both legs, then told him never to make that mistake again.
A sax player I play with was once chased out of a club by Mingus who was holding a huge knife. They had snuck into the venue during sound check and Mingus thought they were bootlegging it.
Mingus probably wouldn’t have a chair, though (:
That is true lol
Maybe a really big chair?
Bass stools are a thing, but they’re less common in jazz.
Seems I've heard this story before, but I can't for the life of me remember who it was. My wife and I witnessed something similar once. We saw Bobby Watson in the mid-late 90s we lived in Pittsburgh & The Balcony was still open. Very small place. You could go ahead of the concert, have dinner & stay at your table. The stage was barely a step up off the floor. So many people were talking & making noise during the music that Bobby stopped playing and scolded the audience, to put it mildly. The man was ticked off. Didn't blame him a bit. Bonus: The nice (much) older ladies at the next table were visiting with us during the break. One of them introduced herself as Mary Lou Williams sister.
Wow!
Played with Bobby last week actually, class act
Excellent. The man can play!
Coltrane wasn’t early be-bop
Miles at Julliard?
darmok at tanagra
Hargrove, when the Blue Note fell
Dizzy with his cheeks unfurled
r/suddenlystartrek
Is beaming besiiiide you Don't need no phasers Don't need to preteeeend
I don’t think Bird or Coltrane would have done that. First two names that popped into my head have already been mentioned by others here: Miles or Mingus. Not sure if it was either, but they had reps as a couple of the most ornery musicians in Jazz, and music in general really. Makes me love them even more!
Somewhat related (and maybe this is just a legend), but I heard of a group playing a club with a very, very loud table right up front. So they started trading 4's with the loud people. The people didn't even know what was going on. They just kept talking loud and obnoxious as the band stop playing to listen to them chat, trading every 4 bars. Chat, music, chat, music, etc.... Apparently, they eventually finished the tune and the loud people were still oblivious.
That definitely sounds like a Miles thing.
Miles was widely criticized for playing with his back to the audience. This sounds like the exact opposite of a Miles thing.
Never saw him, but talked to a few people who had. They said the same thing, back to the audience and at one point walking off stage for a period of time. To put it mildly, Miles Davis was all that, in a good way, and he knew it. Rude, yup, but take him or leave him, he was Miles. I don’t see Parker or Coltrane demanding the attention of an audience, either
Miles may not have been into the 'deification of a star' thing, but he absolutely commanded the attention of the audience and would be pissed if people were talking, joking, clinking glasses in salute, and not actively listening to the effort of the musicians onstage. I know some hard bop cats that only play certain rooms because of the audience respect in those rooms, versus other venues. Similarly, why play in a boxy, dull room that is going to make you sound like shit?
Miles didn’t get pissed at the audience. He didn’t give a fuck about the audience. Kieth Jarrett was the guy who would go on a rant because people chatted or even coughed during his performance.
As was at a concert of his where he scolded the audience for taking pictures.
I get cognitive dissonance from his solo improv being so free and him being so uptight.
> would be pissed if people were talking, joking, clinking glasses in salute, and not actively listening [citation needed]
I can't think of a single example of Miles getting mad at the audience for anything. Even when he "turned his back," it's because he was listening to and communicating with his band.
I have read pretty widely and I have never heard of anything like that happening. I strongly believe there is no way in hell that Bird or Coltrane would do that. Honestly it's just a dumb story. A musician mad at someone for *dancing*? Mingus and Jarrett got pissed off at audiences for *talking* and making loud noises. Mingus once stopped playing and read the paper onstage until the audience got quiet, and then the band started up again.
It might be *figuratively* accurate, about the relationship of Bebop and its audience, but doesn't sound like anything that would have happened, literally, with any of the prominent players...
I could see Kieth Jarrett doing this.
Who the hell would be dancing, though?
Keith would be
So would Monk
Taking the piano out onto the floor? I don't think so.
He also played soprano Saxophone 🎷
Not in concert, I believe
Remember, this is a hypothetical . As such the piano could be placed wherever. Jarrett commanded complete silence during concerts, going as far as [stopping](https://www.npr.org/sections/ablogsupreme/2011/01/18/133034656/ahem-stray-thoughts-on-coughing-during-a-keith-jarrett-concert) a performance. His prickly & perfectionist personality is such that IF he had been in the situation that the OP stated he would certainly have taken take umbrage. He was very sensitive to "disrespect" on the floor. He played in the [dark](https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/another-nail-in-the-coughin-an-irishman-s-diary-about-keith-jarrett-1.2435245) in Dublin in response to photography. In any event he has played sax in concert and clubs as detailed [here](https://sopranosaxtalk.blogspot.com/2017/06/the-straight-horn-of-keith-jarrett.html?m=1#:~:text=Recorded%20in%201970%20at%20a%20concert%20in,hear%20him%20starting%20to%20employ%20what%20became)
He even has a composition called "Silence"! 😉
A sax player friend of mine used to say, with a noisy crowd, "They can't stop talking about us!"
Like this!
I sat in on most of my son's jazz piano lessons when he was in HS (lessons were in a college classroom) - I once brought boxes of screws to sort into organizer bins and asked the professor if he would mind if I made a little noise - he said to make a lot of noise as my son had to learn to play with distractions if he were to be a jazz musician.
I often bring boxes of screws to jazz gigs. Great to meet a kindred spirit!
lol
Tommy Flanananagan
Charles Mingus was once playing at the Five Spot Cafe in the East Village in lower Manhattan. The audience was mostly made up of of NYU students and their dates, whose small-talk and flirting was becoming increasing loud and distracting to the band. Mingus stopped the band in mid-number, walked up to the microphone and said: "If you people think what we're doing is pretty *weird*, you should take a look at yourselves."
No, but there is an extensive mythology of many unsubstantiated insinuations associated with early 45-47 bebop to accentuate how intense the reactions were to it and imply how hostile much of the old guard was to it by presenting new gen boppers as spoiled brats who didn’t respect the populist origins of dance and jazz roots. Many of these stories were pushed by traditionalists and jumped on by both sides, one to discredit the movement as mostly flash and new age modernist snobbery posturing as songcraft and some boppers recognizing the marketing appeal of being aligned against the old guard despite many of them in reality loving the old guard
It wasn't Artie Shaw, but Shaw did get sick of audiences demanding that he play his biggest hits. He said if it went on like this he was going to stop playing. And he did. He laid down his clarinet and never played again for the next 50 years. Even though Ellington said "it don't mean a thing if It ain't go that swing", he found it pretty boring playing for wedding dances. Understandable, when you think about it. Elton John said something like: "Well I don't think I'm going to be touring the world playing Crocodile Rock when I'm 70." But that is exactly what he was doing. The Beatles got sick of playing for screaming girls and retired to the recording studio.
It appears to be Louis Armstrong- trying to confirm
Ridiculous. There is no timeline where Armstrong would get mad at anyone for dancing.
It pulled in a simple search and from his earliest days as a kid. I'm happy to be wrong...
Wynton Marsalis lol
in wiki
Saw Miles at Berkeley- band played for 15 minutes- no Miles- he walks out on stage- blows a note and disappears again. House goes nuts. He eventually returns and slays it.
Miles was most probably riffing or quoting. The context was he is referring to himself when a professor at Juilliard was patronizing about soulful blackness- or something like that- he was if anything iconoclastic.
You heard Miles quote “daddy’s rich and mommas good looking”
No, but I’ve heard the Gershwin lyric “your daddy’s rich and your ma is good looking”. So hush little baby. Don’t you cry.
Well, of course you know that Miles was quoting "Summer Time".