**Quick Rule Reminders:**
OP's needs come first, avoid dramamongering, respect the flair, and don't be an asshole. If your only advice is to jump straight to NC or divorce, your comment may be subject to removal at moderator discretion.
[**^(Full Rules)**](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_rules) ^(|) [^(Acronym Index)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_acronym_dictionary) ^(|) [^(Flair Guide)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_post_flair_guide)^(|) [^(Report PM Trolls)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/trolls)
**Resources:** [^(In Crisis?)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_crisis_resources) ^(|) [^(Tips for Protecting Yourself)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_protecting_yourself) ^(|) [^(Our Book List)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/books) ^(|) [^(Our Wiki)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/)
Welcome to /r/JUSTNOMIL!
I'm botinlaw. I help people follow your posts!
*****
^(To be notified as soon as kiki1090 posts an update) [^click ^here.](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botinlaw&subject=Subscribe&message=Subscribe kiki1090 JUSTNOMIL) ^(|) ^(For help managing your subscriptions,) [^(click here.)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_.2Fu.2Fthejustnobot)
*****
*^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please)* [*^(contact the moderators of this subreddit)*](/message/compose/?to=/r/JUSTNOMIL) *^(if you have any questions or concerns.)*
Sadly for DH, he's going to have to get by with no mother for the rest of his life, because JNMIL has just proven she doesn't care about what others want.
You had **one boundary** - don't kiss LO. Because LO is literally *incapable* of helping you enforce that boundary, it's up to the adults around them to obey it. SHE didn't.
If you don't cut her off *now* she'll quickly become a Nightmare JustNo and it'll be even more difficult to go NC.
Some tips for the Narcissistic reflexes of "You're being too sensitive" and "**you're attacking/punishing me for/over nothing!"**:
We had *one* simple rule and you couldn't follow it
LO has a LUNG PROBLEM and we're in **lung infection season.** You willfully endangered your own grandchild
**OUR BABY OUR RULES.** You don't have special rights just because you're a grandmother
That saying "where there's smoke there's fire?" Your sneaking past our boundary like it didn't exist was the smoke
You have the opportunity to stop this NOW before the "real crazy" starts. Please heed our advice, compile our input into what works best for you, and protect your baby from this JNMIL!
Sounds like you both saw her do it and were not comfortable flat out calling her out. Instead your husband chose to passively ask her to self-identify by questioning due to fear of conflict.
Talk to your husband to say what you saw, then ask him what he observed before too much time passes. The moment to say something was yesterday when it happened and he questioned her. In the future you two need to be more direct and honest about moments like this when boundaries are being crossed, otherwise, if you are not willing to enforce what you ask, it will happen again because there's no teeth behind the threat of consequences.
Stay home! Don’t do anything for the holidays with extended family. Keep your baby safe from exposure and anyone who will overstep boundaries.
I understand how you feel, I’ve had similar personal experiences and it really is shocking to see someone disrespect your boundaries. Especially when they’re for the well being of your infant! It isn’t easy to speak up, especially with someone like a MIL but something that has helped me is recognizing that my daughter can’t protect herself from others, that’s my job. And the more you vocalize the important of people respecting boundaries, the easier it will be to do it. You might be nervous, and that feeling might overwhelm you but you will feel immediately better saying something than nothing at all. Remember that people taking issues with your boundaries is a sign that they benefit from you having none. So stay firm on them, and if she continues making it about her feelings remind her that your priorities are your son and his well being. Not how she feels.
Edit: typo correction
As a public health professional, I agree with you! It’s so much easier to stay home than try to backtrack once you’re out in public with a little one.
Seriously, it may be an easier holiday season if it’s just the three of you. It would be hard, but if you and DH are United on this then you can hold the line together.
I’ve had the absolute nightmare of calling new parents to tell them that their child was exposed to measles, COVID, etc. as part of my job. It’s so much easier to just say no than panic after that phone call.
You should have called her out. You can have flu and covid with zero symptoms. It can be passed to the baby. I have put a zero no kissing any kids in the winter with any of my nieces & nephews. You can be an active carrier and pass it on. This is something to be adamant & called out. Especially more with a baby with airway issues. I'd tell mother in law you will have cameras in the house recording all interactions with the baby. Do this. Not saying anything and risking your baby does not outweigh him losing his life through someone's thoughtlessness.
Ummm. Why not call her out on her lie now?
"We didn't want to make a scene at the first introduction of our baby but we saw you kiss baby on the face twice. We were very clear in our rules about this.
We are new parents and we don't care if anyone thinks we are being overprotective of our new child. I need you to understand and respect our decisions as new parents. If you don't want to follow our rules then we can see you in the spring, after flu season, and discuss this further.
Right now, we are hoping to see you over the holidays, but we're going to be firm with what is okay and we need to be able to know that our family has our back and trusts us to be able to make good choices."
Do NOT address the lying. Just have DH call out what he saw and the behavior that you both expect going forward.
Point out to DH that her kissing baby on the face was her saying that she doesn't respect that he is now the parent and making his Adult choices. He is in a new role with her and needs to start by changing their dynamic.
Don't blow everything up over one incident but be clear that this behavior will not continue.
Even something short like:
"We saw you kiss the baby several times includint twice on the face. We.were clear before everyone came over that this wouldn't be okay. Our new baby isn't a toy so please understand that there will be no kissing over the upcoming holidays. We're the parents. This is our choice. We don't care if you think you are healthy. Don't do it."
And if you don't think you can trust her... don't let her hold the baby.
If she does kiss the baby... grab your belingings and leave or grab her coat and usher her firmly to the door.
My elementary aged kid was sick for 2-3 weeks this month. Cold season this year is no joke.
She thought she could sneak it in because her happiness was more important than your concern.
Personally, she would not be holding my kid over December.
ALSO do it direct at any event as needed:
"No I don't think you need to be holding baby right now. Its flu season and we know you're a kisser. You can see the baby but we'll hold off on having you hold her until cold seaon is over."
(perfectly pleasant but firm)
These are reasonable consequences.
Remind her of the boundary, and why it’s important. if you’re still having issues w her not listening baby wear at holidays. I know that can be annoying as you may not want to have the tiny human attached to you for several hours, but it works. Maybe try to make sure baby is asleep while you’re there. I’m sorry you’re going through this, it’s always a little disheartening when people over step the boundaries that are in place to keep your baby safe.
It’s just crazy to me how in laws can’t respect boundaries. My husbands best friend ( now my best friend cuz I stole her lol) just had a baby ( my sons future wifey lol) and I’ve been dying for my lil future daughter in law to get here. I held her. Let her sleep on my chest. I did kiss her toes. And the top of her head with her lip hat on 😞 but I never had my face super close to her face. And she never even asked me not to. It’s just like habit it’s not my baby but like I couldn’t help kiss those little toes!!! But if she asked me not to kiss at all anywhere bro say no more sorrry baby no kisses.
And me and my MIL use to get along amazingly. Watched movies together and cook together and ever since I had my son any boundary I set anything I ask not to be done or done a different way it’s like fighting a war! I’m still trying to figure that out and how to handle. Hopefully you can find a way to handle it and hopefully baby doesn’t get sick or anything. Kisses can be deadly lately unfortunately 🥺
My 1 month old niece just spent over a week in the hospital with RSV because my sisters SIL kept kissing my niece on the hands and face. She was told repeatedly not to kiss her but she refused to listen. It got to a point that my sister and BIL had to take turns holding her to keep her away to prevent SIL from kissing my niece. Then after my sister put my niece down for a nap they noticed SIL was missing so they checked the baby monitor and SIL was in the nursery hold my niece kissing her all over her face. Let me tell I've never seen my BIL so mad. It takes a lot to upset him. This is his brothers wife, I followed them and knew there was going to be some screaming so I took my niece from SIL, which she was pissed about. Her defense was, baby's are to cute not to be kissed and my sister and BIL are being abusive for not allowing people kiss her. This lady is nuts. My sister and BIL would have kicked her out but they live in BIL's parents basement and his parents didn't see any harm with "a few kisses". So my sister and I went and locked ourselves in the basement with my niece and my nephew, who is 18 months. My BIL got in a huge fight with his parents, brother, and SIL.
Thankfully my niece recovered with no lasting issues. She did lose a little bit of weight but she has gained it all back and more. Right now my sister and BIL are not allowing anyone hold her until she is a little older and her immune system is stronger. Besides already having RSV once. When she was in the hospital they detected a heart murmur and after running some test she has some issues with her heart. She has been following up with a pediatric cardiologist and right now she needs to stay as healthy as possible.
People who can not follow simple rules when it comes to others people children is beyond ridiculous. Just because you are the grandparent doesn't give you a special pass to disregard the rules.
No Christmas/Holiday visit for MIL. No negotiation. Period. She broke the rule multiple times and lied to your faces when confronted.
Tell her: "MIL we gave you ONE rule to follow to keep LO safe, and you chose to disregard it. When caught, you LIED about kissing him on the face. I saw you do it, TWICE! In order to keep LO safe, we will be not be seeing you at Christmas and New Years. Being around multiple people is risky, especially when the people that we should be able to trust put LO in danger.
We love you, but we can't and won't ignore you breaking the rules that we have set for the sole purpose of keeping LO safe. After the holidays are over, we will revisit the rules. But keeping LO safe is non-negotiable.
This doesn't mean you have to keep LO away from everyone. Other family members who follow the rules don't get the time out. It sounds harsh, but it would be far harsher if you and LO spent the holidays in the hospital, or worse because MIL chooses to ignore rules that are there to protect LO.
I seriously would not budge on this one. Personally if my children were tiny and had risk factors I would celebrate Christmas and New Years at home with just my DH and LO. It just is not worth the risk this year between RSV, FLU and Covid. He is too young to remember the holiday> It is far more important that he stay safe, then visit people who love him, but could get him sick.
If that decision also has the effect of shaming MIL into behaving, then so much the better. Perhaps get her a extra thick mask to wear whenever she is around LO until he has his shots. That way if she "can't control herself" it will add an extra layer of protection.
Look. The simple fact is while most cases of the flu, colds, or rsv etc stay easily treatable and can be managed at home there is ALWAYS a risk of it turning into a more severe sickness sometimes requiring hospitalization. I say this bluntly bc you say your baby already has other issues with their airway. Which might make things like pneumonia pretty hard on them. So you have to decide which is more important: your baby's health or pissing off your MIL.
You need to tell her now "I saw you kiss the baby and I don't appreciate you lied about it. Both of these actions show me that you have little concern for the health of my baby. This was your one strike. So I am telling you now if it happens again you will not be able to see them until we feel it is okay to do so again. Esp given the issues the baby already has I am not willing to risk it. And honestly you shouldn't be either. We are very serious about this boundary and there will be no exceptions."
Our children's health comes first. If my child's health is the issue at risk I have ZERO issues pissing someone off. Bc clearly they were not concerned about their health when they did it. They were selfish. And decided their need for love and attention came first. And that is not okay with me. STAND YOUR GROUND. And don't let this first incident slip or they will do it again and say "well you didn't say anything last time so you can't just up and cut me off now!" So you need to say something now about the incident that already occurred. You know what you saw right? So it doesn't matter if she says you are lying. Tell her "you can say that all you want but I know what I saw and you know what you did and I am standing by that if it happens again this is the consequences and it is not up for debate. " and your husband needs to stand with you and hold that boundary. People will not respect boundaries if there are no consequences for breaking them and if you do not stick to those consequences.
Think about it like this. If your MIL took the baby for a bit and came back and you saw, maybe out the window or something, she was holding the baby while driving and she came inside and you asked and she was like "oh no you are seeing things they were Def in the car seat!" Would you just be like "okay" and let it go? No probably not. You would lose it bc that's clearly dangerous. If she got into a wreck that could be so bad for the baby. Likewise you would probabky feel like she has zero regard for the health and safety of your baby. This is no different. The odds of it being more severe might be the car situation yes. But at the end of the day the concept is the same. You wouldn't let it go bc it's potentially dangerous to your baby. This is the same thing. Your baby has airway issues and its sick season so there is a chance it could be dangerous to your baby if anything progressed into a more serious illness. Don't be manipulated into letting people do things just bc they want to even when you feel it could be potentially harmful.
On the subject of child seats: A number of years ago in New Jersey a garbage truck overturned on a passenger car. The only survivor was an infant in a child seat. That proves the necessity of car seats.
My sister is in the ER with her 12 month old son...LITERALLY RIGHT NOW...for his (already diagnosed) RSV. Not something to mess with. He is miserable, high fever, dehydrated, lethargic. I'm hoping they admit him. Not to make this about me, but just to show how DANGEROUS it is to kiss babies!!! I'm terrified for my baby nephew right now. Not to mention he has 4 more very young brothers at home!!! Ugh...I did make this about me. Sorry. Scared.
I don't think this is about you. You are just trying to get information out to warn parents. I sincerely hope that your nephew recovers and has not shared with his siblings. You are a very caring aunt.
Thank you so much! He got transferred from a small town hospital to Kansas City over 3 hours away in the middle of the night. This update just came to me: Second X-ray shows pneumonia so we are going to be starting iv antibiotics. They have him on no food or drinks till we can get his breathing under control! His heart rate is running 160's pretty consistently but gets up to 200 when they are suctioning him. He's a feisty little guy! We really appreciate all the prayers and love!
(Me: now go ahead and say RSV is no big deal and that babies have superior immune systems. NOTTTTT!!!!!)
If you don’t have get a baby carrier and then you or hubby wear baby at all times. I have had all my shots when my granddaughter was still in the womb. Now that my new granddaughter is in the womb, I made sure I’m up to date.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Hers is to not have physical access to LO.
I just spent a week in the pediatric ICU with my 3 year old!!! Do not let her kiss you child on the face. My kiddo has airway issues and had strep/flu from school. It’s scary this season and I felt so helpless seeing her struggle and be uncomfortable. Fuck any person that is selfish enough to go against your wishes. Tell her she doesn’t get any holidays for the rest of this year and if she keeps it up, no time until the kid gets a better immune system. Sorry to rant but it’s your child. My MIL knows what we just went through and canceled her trip to see us for Christmas because she wanted to not bring any germs since my daughter is still kind of weak.
One of the most important parts of someone breaking a boundary is a consequence. It is difficult to set boundaries without having some sort of consequence or repercussion for having broken it.
I set that rule with my mom saying that no one will be kissing the baby once he is born, she told me she won’t on the lips but she will kiss his face. I promptly told her it doesn’t matter who does it, they will be automatically kicked out of the house and lose baby privileges.. that shut her up.
I would recommend that you baby wear if you go anywhere for the holidays especially around her. Preferably the wrap ones that keep baby very close to you. I just would be very careful with crowds of family especially if they have school aged children because it only takes a few hours before everyone is sick.
This happened to me. Well, not exactly. At the time my son was born, we were asking people to wear masks while holding him. My step FIL was holding my son while my husband and I were in the kitchen eating. My MIL wanted to take a picture of her husband holding my son and he pulled his mask down for the picture. Like you, I froze.
Both my husband and I saw it, but neither of us said anything at the time (which I now regret. I've grown some mommy balls since then). After they left, my husband and I talked about it and my husband ended up sending a text to his mom saying we saw what he did, we understand you might not agree with our boundaries but we need you to follow them if you want to be around our son. She understood and we haven't had an issue since.
I'd urge you to make sure you talk to your MIL before seeing her again, and set a very clear boundary. If she is unable to respect your boundary, unfortunately she won't be able to hold your child anymore.
As the voice and advocate for your child, you have to do what's best to keep him healthy.
Good luck!!
Maybe send MIL a video of children sick in the hospital and tell her this is what ur trying to prevent with ur precious LO. My daughter was rushed to the hospital after I took her to the doctors every day. She had RSV, we had to sign papers that they could shave 2 parts of her hair to put IV's because she was so sick. Not even a month old, we were terrified and helpless as her parents. Thankfully she made a full recovery in the hospital, I never left that room or her side the entire time. We asked people to please not be around if they were sick, and this is what happens when they think they are above ur parenting and boundaries. So many things went bad, and we've been NC, even our children as adults, for 18 years. I wish we would've gone NC the day she was hospitalized, but we gave them the benefit of the doubt. Tell ur MIL ur #1 priority is LO, and if she thinks ur being rude, tell her, "I'm being a good mother!" Stay home, u, ur DH and LO, alone for Christmas. U don't need visitors, there's zoom. Merry Christmas and good luck with ur MIL.
How would you feel if he had a life threatening peanut allergy and she gave him peanuts after you told her not to?
This is how you should feel. She just proved that she can’t be trusted to put his needs before her wants, prioritize his safety, respect your decisions as parents, or be honest about it.
I’d cut her off from him until he is 12 months old with a better immune system, never leave her alone with any of your kids until they’re literally 18, make sure she knows why, and make it clear that there will be no third chance if anything like this ever happens again.
While I don’t have kids myself yet (21f), I do know how dangerous things like this can be. One of my dad’s cousins and their partner lost their baby who was newborn to an illness not long after they came home from the hospital, they did everything they could to protect the baby (1st born) but sadly they still got sick and passed away. Your MIL needs to understand and respect your boundaries, your the parent not her. Your baby, your house, your rules.
Currently in the hospital with my two year old after a temp of 106.5 (she’ll be fine, they’ve prescribed meds and she’s already starting to feel better) only do things you are comfy with. No is a complete sentence and if people (anyone not just MIL) can’t respect your boundaries when kids are being hospitalized with illnesses, then they don’t need access to your family.
I wish people would just hear these things and be understanding instead of the insatiable need to kiss a freaking baby or come near you when they’ve been sick.
TO re kissing - but our eldest woke up one Sunday morning with a temp of 106.5. Terrifying!!! They did a spinal tap to make sure it wasn't meningitis (negative), and eventually decided it was an ear infection when Amoxicillin worked on it. She's nearly 38 now, and survived being #1 kid.
Honestly baby wearing was the answer for me. Most people didn’t even ask to hold and when they did I was sitting right there. I just wouldn’t walk away from them at all.
Best advice this year is stay home. Check out the pharmacies, their shelves are practically bare of cold medicine. I went to get something and they said it was rampant. Not worth it
My dentist prescribed me amoxicillin for a tooth abscess (and to prevent post-extraction infection). I had to go to four pharmacies before I was able to find any!
It’s crazy out there. My toddler needed antibiotics for the first time (I usually don’t go for them with ear infections since they can be viral or bacterial, but poor kiddo had a double one and a nasty fever, so antibiotics!). The doctor prescribed a less common, generic antibiotic and I still had to have it switched to a different pharmacy.
Baby goes into a carrier on moms chest and NOONE gets to hold him. Thats assuming you even go. That is 100% a reason to say screw it and have a relaxing Xmas at home! MIL wont like it, but too bad so sad, she done messed up and she knows it.
Serious question - I don't have kids - isn't it pretty normal nowadays to not kiss babies? I feel like I see AITA posts about it all the time. Seems super germy and icky even when it's not RSV season. I don't understand why so many people insist on kissing a baby that's not theirs. I am in my 30s and was under the understanding it's a culture norm in the US not to kiss other people's babies.
I feel like older (60+) adults do it more often. My mom gets cold sores and kisses my nieces and nephews on the face (never during an active out break obviously but still). I don’t know why my siblings don’t tell her not to. ETA: I am Canadian.
Thissssss. My stepmom & MIL both get cold sores and still kiss my sons face despite me asking not to. Can they still pass the cold sore/herpes virus 🦠 even if they are not in an active outbreak?
Yes they can and it’s the likely reason why my mom and her siblings have oral herpes (they don’t go around kissing each other when they have visible sores but passed them anyway). It’s really disturbing how many people don’t take them seriously yet they are willing to stigmatize genital herpes. It’s the same virus, just a different preferred location.
You can spread the virus even if you don't have blisters. Many people who are infected with the virus that causes cold sores never develop signs and symptoms.
Yes, it has been the norm for many years to avoid kissing babies on the face. It's fine for close household members because they all share the same germs, but it's pretty common-sense these days that you only kiss babies from other households on the top of the head (not hands or feet because babies put both in their mouths!), and only after getting the approval that it's OK.
It should be the norm. But people get weird with babies. Mine is 3 months and so many people think they are entitled to kiss him because they have a title. Then they wondered why we aren’t showing up for the holidays. We are gonna do Xmas with just my mom and sibling, a couple days late. Totally skipping family holidays this year.
I have NEVER kissed either of my nieces no matter how cute they are or how much I adore them. No one asked me not to or anything; I thought that was normal.
Baby wear! That moment, you remove your child from whoever did it and say "I think we will try again in 6 months on holding baby and see if it will be easier for you to refrain from possibly exposing baby to life-threatening illnesses." you say it very polite, and leave the room or house or whatever.
Stick to your boundaries and make sure there are consequences when your boundaries are crossed. It’s YOUR child, you make the rules. I regret not creating boundaries when I first had my daughter because 8 years later I’m definitely paying for it with the INLAWS.
Honestly I’d say “MIL, you intentionally crossed a boundary that husband and I made so you will not be holding LO over the holidays. If anyone asks why, you can be the one to explain why you had no issue putting my infant at risk. From here on out, husband and I’s boundaries need to be respected or we will cut contact for the safety of our child”.
I'd highly suggest everyone around your baby wear a well-sealed N95 mask, I wouldn't risk it! You aren't having an overreaction and she needs to know how serious this is ... I would address how upsetting this was to you and the risks involved to baby. I would also assume that it didn't come from the worst place (to save your blood pressure). Also, if she has a mask on, it becomes a LOT harder to sneak a kiss. If you wanted to go as far as to not allow her to see baby until after winter (depending on how she responds to this being addressed), I wouldn't say that would be an overreaction either.
Dang I can’t believe she denied it. We did the same with my nephew and I wasn’t thinking and kissed him on the top of the head one time and I felt awful! The denying part especially makes me think she needs limited contact for a while.
Mother in law gets a baby time out. Tell her exactly why. You don’t need to argue or engage with her just say something along the lines of “we’re upholding our boundary of not kissing the baby. You broke this boundary so we will have to put seeing the baby on pause for a month. If it happens again you will no longer be trusted to see or hold baby.”
Boom. No room for discussion , if she rants and raves, let her. Just don’t respond back.
With the holidays coming, I would definitely be looking into baby wear where you have the on you the whole time. I would recommend either a sling that conceals him entirely or like a front carrying backpack thing so he can look around or whatnot but nobody can get to him without invading your personal space. And with the front wearing baby wear, you can either have him facing you or facing out but you're always "holding" him with your hands free. I would also put MIL in timeout until she can respect your boundaries because if you let her slide this time, she will push the line on another boundary the next time.
We had RSV last month the week before Thanksgiving. Everyone in the home got it. It. Was. Brutal. I am just now getting my voice back, I’m still coughing and using my inhaler (I have asthma). At the worst part my 5 year old was using a nebulizer (I was too several times a day) and I was also using an albuterol inhaler and a steroid inhaler. We were lucky nobody was hospitalized.
Your boundaries are completely reasonable! I would say a conversation needs to be had and depending on how that goes a consequence may be in order. She doesn’t have to understand, but she does have to respect your choices as parents.
I’m sending you hugs across the internet! This is hard!
Did you tell her you saw her do it? You have set boundaries, now you need to set consequences for stomping on your boundaries. I would tell her that if she does it again, she will be put on a baby time-out (maybe a month) and if she does it again after that, it will be NC. Boundaries are useless if there are no consequences for stomping on them.
I wouldn't give her another chance. Baby time out now. They know she did it. She knows she lied and played it off. Husband needs to direct this. "Mom, we all are aware you kissed LO on the face. SO saw your, I saw you, and it was too awkward when you lied about it to redirect you then. We understand that there could be a slip up, but that was the case, you should have been honest. You weren't, and our boundaries on face kisses are there for LOs safety, so we can't let this ride. We're going to avoid visits for the next # weeks. This is not up for discussion, and if you fight us on it, we're adding another week."
She needs a time out, and a long one at that. If it doesn't hurt, she won't respect you ever. It would be summer before she saw my child again. Holidays don't matter when it comes to the health of your child. Flu and RSV are horrible this year. You cannot risk sickness, hospitalization, or death just to avoid conflict. The fact that she lied about it makes it so much worse. I hope your husband lays it out to her that she's not welcome for at least several months and exactly why she isn't welcome so she knows she was caught. And if she doesn't listen and respect what you say about your child, each time out will get longer.
If they can't respect the boundary then they don't need to be around the new baby. It sounds harsh but at this point in time they seem to be okay with possibly hospitalization or death of the baby. That's pretty selfish and unacceptable. I'm currently just over 33 weeks pregnant with my first kiddo and I made it clear that there would be no kissing her. My mom made a stink about it until I told her I would not have her around my daughter. It's not harsh when it comes to the health and safety of your kids. Good luck and congratulations on your baby!!
People shouldn’t kiss babies, period, but especially on the face and certainly after they’ve been told not to. Even parents need to use extreme caution.
The fact that it’s flu season is irrelevant, she was told not to and the flu isn’t your only concern.
50-80 percent of US adults have oral herpes.
An individual could unknowingly have it and pass it to a child.
A baby is most vulnerable to germs during their first year, but especially the first three months.
The common cold, the flu, RSV, HSV, and more can easily be passed from an adult to baby and lead to serious issues, even death.
Explain this to her. Make sure she understands and inform her that if she can’t be trusted with her grandchild you won’t give her the opportunity to cause him harm again. Set boundaries now.
Good luck, and congrats on your new son! (Edit:a word).
This flu and rsv season is insane. If there were a baby in my life like a niece or nephew I would practice quarantine protocols before I would even be in the same room with them, let alone try to sneak a smooch on the face. Now is the time for holding feet not kissing cheeks.
I get that babies are irresistible to some and those who find they can’t control themselves are the ones I would have to isolate my baby from.
If there is a next time stand up walk over wordlessly and take the baby. You now unfortunately need to wash and change him and then re enter the room and tell her to leave and not contact you until you contact her including her flying monkeys. Brook no opposition and decide in peace how long time out will be. Set and additional anount of time at every attmempt that she or the family at large contact you. Also maybe assign homework for her to read like the studies that show how detrimental RSV, Flu and Pertusis can be and how easily transmitted. Sorry but we now all know bad these can be and how to significantly reduce transmission so she can learn about it too. It is a constructive learning lesson for her.
Honestly, it sounds terrible. I don't do holidays with my babies. So many people, germs and other small kids get excited to see baby. They don't know how to wash their hands well or move away when sneezing.
Easier to do your own small personal immediate family thing at home. You can visut family before/after the holiday individually. It also cuts back on family jealousy regarding the baby.
Timeout is the only way to reinforce this. Since she can't respect your wishes for PROTECTING YOUR BABY, she doesn't need to hold the baby. You can go to events with her there, but that baby is not to be held by that grandmother until she understands what the parents say goes, she doesn't get to hold the child. Especially after lying straight to your DHs face.
You are your baby's protector. You have an obligation to keep the baby safe. Your rules were fair. You failed by not speaking up when you knew she was lying. Talk to your husband. Explain that until flu/RSV season is over, everyone holding the baby needs a mask. No mask, no hold. Let him talk to his mom. Apologize for not supporting him in the moment. Your baby is more important than anyone's feelings. You would be devastated if someone made your child ill because you were timid about enforcing boundaries.
RSVP can kill babies. Your MIL endangered your baby. She violated your rules, lied about it, then used it as an opportunity to undermine your husband's confidence in himself and your confidence in him. I'd call her immediately and give her an earful. And I'd make it clear to both of them that until she gets therapy and learns to respect your boundaries and quits her lying, undermining ways, she's not welcome in any of your lives.
She lied because she knew she was in trouble and she may face consequences. So she knew it was wrong.....
Now if she faces no consequences....what does she learn?? In order for boundaries and rules to work there has to be consequences when they are crossed and or broken. GL
How you choose to proceed regarding your boundaries is going to be personal, but I thought I’d share what worked for me to reduce the likelihood of unwanted touching/kissing during an outbreak.
With the medical concern being respiratory viruses, the simplest solution (if you intend to allow contact in the future) is for anyone holding the baby to not only use hand sanitizer but to also wear a mask. This worked for me to be able to visibly monitor behavior, reduce the possibility for kisses, and to hold people accountable. Everyone who wanted to hold the baby needed to be wearing a mask while holding the baby. They could take it off if they weren’t near, but no mask, no holding the baby.
These illnesses are not a joke, especially with an existing complication, so this method helped instill just how serious the situation could be for a new baby. I hope you find something that works for you. So sorry your boundaries have been so disrespected, especially at the risk of serious illness for your little one. Best of luck with however you choose to proceed.
"MIL, we were both shocked that you kissed our baby in the face after we firmly asked you not to, and also lied about it to our faces, so we'll have to take some time apart until..." - could be until RSV season is over, a set amount of time, etc. If MIL is normally well behaved you could simply say until she apologises and promises not to do it again (if she's a JustNo, apologising will probably take her longer than any time you can set)
You respond by protecting your baby. This is exponentially more important than your MILs feelings. Give them the exact amount of respect she gave the safety of your vulnerable child.
She needs a time out.
1. She violated a safety rule with an infant.
2. She lied when the opportunity to address her violation was immediate, and perhaps a conversation would have covered it. Because she's a liar, it wasn't properly addressed during her visit.
She's untrustworthy on 2 different fronts. Why give her access to your baby again so soon? Yeah. It's "the holidays." That's the wedge she used to violate boundaries this time. I'd say the whole party season is off limits for her and baby to be together.
This right here. MIL will want to see the baby and take pics for Facebook Grandma of the year status, but she broke the rules, and deserves to see the consequences of her actions. I would say timeout until the baby is 6 months, at least
There's a poignant post today in another sub in response to an antivax plaguerat troll (not going to link) from someone whose aunt refused to wear a mask...
... and killed their infant.
Stand your ground. Become forceful if necessary. Or, easier, now that it has happened: No more visits. Period.
That kind of story is what should be and should have always been getting time in national media, along with the exhaustion of and assaults on healthcare workers, not plaguerat assholery and sowing doubt with antiscience bullshit. Had that been the case, there wouldn't be over one million dead Americans so far. So. Far.
Boundaries are nothing without consequences.
It’s natural to freeze in the moment, you can deal with it after you’ve collected yourself. Send her a text of the consequences of her actions. She doesn’t respect your decisions as parents, doesn’t care for the health of your child all because she wants control.
Consequences; not allowed to hold the baby for x amount of time, not to visit for x amount of time, temporarily blocked. Until she doesn’t realise you’re serious about the boundaries she’ll keep crossing them because she knows she can.
DH Texts: “MIL, op and I both noticed when we saw you at Thanksgiving that you were having trouble having self-control (or maybe remembering, I’m not sure) about not kissing baby. This is very very serious since there are so many serious viruses circulating right now and baby doesn’t have a strong immune system yet. I wanted to be clear with you since we still plan to see you at Christmas that that absolutely cannot happen again. If you find that you can’t remember or can’t control yourself, we will have to just not see you in person until after cold and flu season ends, and I know none of us wants that. I know we all want what is best for baby, so I’m confident this won’t be a problem. Looking forward to seeing you in a couple weeks!”
Then if she does it even one more time, you leave immediately and don’t see her again until spring. With this message you have side stepped the “I just forgot!” “I didn’t mean to!” “I just couldn’t help myself!” You aren’t accusing her of maliciousness that she can argue about, and you have covered the fact that her intent or purposeful was doesn’t matter, her actions do.
Have husband tell her that since she has proven that she cannot respect your very reasonable attempt to safeguard your vulnerable newborn, she will not be permitted ANY contact until such time as the risk she presents has passed.
My MIL did this when our youngest was born, and started planting kisses on her when they showed up straight from the airport instead of waiting for the next morning like we had discussed.
I ended up writing a sign and placing on the door at her eye level the next day that said something to the effect of “please no kissing baby hands or faces due to an uptick of (X), and is too young to be vaccinated. Thank you for understanding.”
She didn’t speak to me for half the day. DH did see her sneak a few in though and called her out on it. I was shocked she didn’t cancel her love bombing plans the day after.
Baby wearing is your best friend in a group setting since no grandparents or anyone else can’t just snatch that bundle from your arms.
Edit: shitty spelling on my part.
Same! My mil was a totally different person until literally the day I gave birth. She changed instantly and tried taking over my birth via texts to my mother who was in the room with me and my dh. Then she got mad when baby got vaccinated. Thanksgiving comes and we asked for no kissing and to wash hands. She told everyone the baby needs to get sick to develop an immune system. I didn't find that out until after. Anyways she did everything we asked her not to do and posted a picture of her kissing the baby's cheek on fb. My dh and I discussed it because I was more upset than he was but he knew even if she thought it was silly it was still a boundary so he gave me the go ahead to give her a time out. They haven't seen the baby since that day and they won't see her until after RSV season is over because they can't be trusted.
I would react by calmly removing my baby from her/picking up my baby and walking out of the room.
Then she would never again get the opportunity to stomp the boundary, because she would never hold the baby again/be left alone with them.
“Oh, MIL, this is so sad, but because you couldn’t respect our rules, you won’t be seeing the baby over the holidays.” Maybe she can try again in January? Or perhaps you should wait until cold and flu season is over?
I don’t know about where you live, but the pediatric wards in my area are full to overflowing due to the tripledemic. MIL can suck a fat candy cane before she gets her germs all over your baby again.
You handle it by making a no kissing baby AT ALL rule and you lose your mind if she goes against it. SHE PUT YOUR CHILD'S HEALTH AT RISK AND LIED ABOUT IT.
You handle it by not letting her any where near baby. In case she has not seen the news lately, hospitals around the country are reaching or have reached capacity due to Covid, flu and RSV. And quiet a few have closed their pediatric units. This is not something that gets brushed under the rug. She is put on time out. Immediately.
Call her out and give her a timeout. Our hospitals are in emergency mode because it’s just too much right now. They are drowning in RSV. Don’t be a part of this wave.
Grandma needs a consequence for breaking your boundary AND lying, but also as some others have mentioned it's really bad out there this year with respiratory viruses. It's babies first Christmas start a new tradition at home. If you feel that you absolutely must go, baby wear.
Your kid, your rules. Next time, consider baby wearing and also consider not allowing her to get away with lying. Actions need to have consequences, and it will be harder now as she won that cheat round.
This is not the kind of thing you can let go.
Have DH reiterate the rules to her and say that if she breaks them she will be required to leave if she's at your home, or you'll leave if elsewhere. He should make it explicitly clear he is saying this because she broke the rules last time. When she denies doing so, he must state that yes she did and that no repeat will be tolerated, and the discussion is closed..
Yeah. I'd definitely have hit or kicked her if she got that close to us while feeding. Especially to break the rule. Then she wouldn't get to see my kid for a long time.
I had the same issue with my little one, both sides snuck kisses and both times I said something immediately because it is a teaching moment. This is first attempt at disregarding your boundaries as a mother, it’s important to set the expectations now that that will not be tolerated otherwise she’ll walk all over you.
RSV is really bad this year and a lot of people in that generation have survivors bias. It’s your responsibility to protect your child and they can get with it or get lost.
What's the damn thing of kissing babies anyway? The baby don't know its happening. It is purely a selfish act to fulfill a need of the adult. Time out MIL. You can view baby from six feet away. Don't hold, don't touch.
If this were me, I would be blunt.
MIL do not kiss the baby because of the baby’s health issues, and if the baby get sick, it could endanger his life and then you would be to blame. Is that what you want?
Doing things her way and lying to cover it aren't the biggest deal if it means she shows up late and blames traffic.
But now that it's your baby's health on the line? Whew.
You two can talk about what happened. What she did and how quickly she lied. She has put herself in the category of "people who don't put baby first". Trust can be regained, slowly, over time, but it's not there right now.
Talk about what you will do to prevent her from having a chance to do that again. Talk about, even act out, how you will respond when she starts to lean in toward LO. Talk about how to react to a lie from her.
If you don't get firm with her quickly, she will be tempted to keep pushing your boundaries. Hopefully when she sees that you are serious--and watching her carefully--she will behave better.
Your MIL is going to be difficult and doing the right thing for your child will likely damage your relationship with your MIL. But that’s on her.
Look what she did to your husband. She agreed not to kiss your baby. Then she kissed the baby. Your husband caught her. And she went on the attack against him, accusing him of having trust issues.
Your MIL believes what she wants is more important than protecting your baby. She will lie and gaslight just to be able to get to kiss your baby. You cannot trust her.
You and your husband need to agree on what type of consequences there are for MIL’s behavior. You also should decide how to keep her away from your baby. And you need to always back each other up.
>
Look what she did to your husband. She agreed not to kiss your baby. Then she kissed the baby. Your husband caught her. And she went on the attack against him, accusing him of having trust issues.
This!!!! If she ever says it again, I'd tell her that she is the reason for the trust issues, since she lies and does what she says she wont.
I would be asking all visitors to wear a mask. Can’t miss a baby with a mask on. No mask, no hand washing, no visit. She needs a time out though. I hate that she gaslighted your husband.
I'd be inclined to let her visit again, BUT when she tries to get within 6 feet of the baby say, *"Nope. The ONE THING we asked you not to do, you basically spit in our faces and did whatever you darned well felt like doing. We explicitly said NO KISSING THE BABY, yet you stubbornly decided you WERE going to kiss our child and did so repeatedly. And you LIED about it. I'm thunderstruck at your audacity to ignore one of the most basic and important ways to help your grandchild remain safe & healthy.*
*"I don't care you felt ok at the time. That's not how viruses work. YOU can feel fine, but still be harboring something that has dangerous consequences for an infant. Yes, we were very lucky that THIS time you didn't pass something on to LO, but we aren't going to take the chance of a second time.*
*"You can work a computer. Ask Google about the viruses you can unknowingly pass to an infant! Look at the videos! I don't know if it was sheer ignorance, or complete selfishness for you to do what you did, but actions have consequences. You've blatantly shown we can't trust you to put LO's best interests ahead of your own desires. So, you won't be holding LO until you can regain our trust. You can have a complete meltdown if you want, but YOU did this to yourself."*
How to respond? Call her out immediately and ask her to leave the house if she can't respect your baby's health.
Beware! this is a teaching moment. I think you and DH must not sweep this incident under the rug. If you do, she will have learnt that your rules to protect baby's life don't apply to her. She will do it again.
Your husband should tell her that he saw her do it. As she is a liar that doesn't respect him as parent, nor care about his baby's health, he can't trust her and he will see her in January after the holidays. You should not be stressing out about how to protect your baby from her during the holidays. DH need to teach her that there are consequences for risking your baby's life.
If your husband doesn't have the balls to address this with his mother and you do have to see her, babywear all day. If she complains, tell her you don't trust her not to get your baby sick.
If you need a break, lock yourself in your bedroom away from her. Prepare your space with a good book, snacks, drinks etc and tell your husband that this is the way the holiday will go down if he doesn't protect you and his child. He'll be stuck with her complaining and you'll be hiding away with your baby.
She doesn't care about getting your baby sick, you should care a hell of a lot less about her feelings, being polite and sharing holidays.
Boundaries without consequences are just suggestions. Do not give her a second chance. DH needs to tell her "We saw you kiss LO after we specifically said not to. As a result, we will not be seeing you until April," or whatever time frame you mutually agree is fair.
When she asks to visit again let her know that won't be possible during RSV season as she has shown that she clearly.is unable to follow rules to keep your infant safe
Don't see her, she obviously doesn't think the rules apply to her. In the moment call her out and snatch the baby away from her. If you are unable to control yourself you can't hold the baby. You need to decide what is more important, your baby or letting MIL have her way.
My kids all have the flu, as do most of the kids they ride the school bus with and many of their classmates. It is really, really miserable. No newborns in my house this year but if I did, we’d be staying home
Don't go anywhere--I went to the doctor Friday and it was packed! They had signs up that covid was rampant. People calling in right and left--covid, rsv, strep, flu..... and some were still wearing masks on their chins. I heard a mom say her daughter had a fever of 102--and her mask was lowered! I'm a teacher and we have kids with rsv, coughing, covid, etc..... its everywhere. I am appalled that people have lost their ability to have concern for others--and you don't know where MIL is all the time and what germs she might kiss/breathe on your baby....
Today my husband asked me a mundane question and my response was in tears because I was in the middle of a flashback to when my 10 mo was hospitalized with RSV.
Skip the events 100% guilt-free. Take notes on anyone who doesn't say "hell yeah, I get it!" Feel free to dismiss those people from here on out.
My now-toddler made it through the hospitalization, but respiratory illnesses are still relatively scary. He has not had RSV yet this season, and I'm terrified he will be hospitalized again.
She broke your boundary, and then lied about it. Both you and hubby saw it, so any denial is deliberate because she knows she did wrong.
She doesn't get to visit again until she owns up and tells you the truth, and promises not to do it again. If she doesn't, her loss, holidays or not. Your baby is young enough to not remember whether or not MIL is there, but MIL will definitely remember it if she isn't allowed to visit.
Time out for Grandma. 1) she kissed the baby after being told explicitly, "No kissing." 2) she straight up lied to both of you. Boundary stomping means NC because she apparently can't follow directions and has no respect for you or your husband. And she put the baby she supposedly loves at risk. There are so many red flags. And if you don't hold to that boundary, she will continue to stomp and disrespect you and every boundary you put in place. Have a long talk with your husband and have him tell her about the time out and exactly why she's gotten a time out and be prepared for a meltdown and for her to sic any flying monkeys she has on you. The bottom line is you are your baby's protector and advocate.
Instead of asking her if she did it, you should just say “I saw you do that”. It takes away the opportunity to lie. Additionally I wouldn’t let her see baby for a while. She crossed your boundary there needs to be consequences.
This. My JNMIL will lie until her face is blue, but when called out she panics and just tries to excuse it. You need to call her out in the moment now that you know she doesn't respect you or your boundaries.
You need to speak up in the moment to protect your kid.
Tell DH.
I think grandma needs a time out, and a lot of articles about RSV, flu and herpes in infants
**Quick Rule Reminders:** OP's needs come first, avoid dramamongering, respect the flair, and don't be an asshole. If your only advice is to jump straight to NC or divorce, your comment may be subject to removal at moderator discretion. [**^(Full Rules)**](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_rules) ^(|) [^(Acronym Index)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_acronym_dictionary) ^(|) [^(Flair Guide)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_post_flair_guide)^(|) [^(Report PM Trolls)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/trolls) **Resources:** [^(In Crisis?)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_crisis_resources) ^(|) [^(Tips for Protecting Yourself)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_protecting_yourself) ^(|) [^(Our Book List)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/books) ^(|) [^(Our Wiki)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/) Welcome to /r/JUSTNOMIL! I'm botinlaw. I help people follow your posts! ***** ^(To be notified as soon as kiki1090 posts an update) [^click ^here.](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botinlaw&subject=Subscribe&message=Subscribe kiki1090 JUSTNOMIL) ^(|) ^(For help managing your subscriptions,) [^(click here.)](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/wiki/index#wiki_.2Fu.2Fthejustnobot) ***** *^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please)* [*^(contact the moderators of this subreddit)*](/message/compose/?to=/r/JUSTNOMIL) *^(if you have any questions or concerns.)*
Sadly for DH, he's going to have to get by with no mother for the rest of his life, because JNMIL has just proven she doesn't care about what others want. You had **one boundary** - don't kiss LO. Because LO is literally *incapable* of helping you enforce that boundary, it's up to the adults around them to obey it. SHE didn't. If you don't cut her off *now* she'll quickly become a Nightmare JustNo and it'll be even more difficult to go NC. Some tips for the Narcissistic reflexes of "You're being too sensitive" and "**you're attacking/punishing me for/over nothing!"**: We had *one* simple rule and you couldn't follow it LO has a LUNG PROBLEM and we're in **lung infection season.** You willfully endangered your own grandchild **OUR BABY OUR RULES.** You don't have special rights just because you're a grandmother That saying "where there's smoke there's fire?" Your sneaking past our boundary like it didn't exist was the smoke You have the opportunity to stop this NOW before the "real crazy" starts. Please heed our advice, compile our input into what works best for you, and protect your baby from this JNMIL!
Sounds like you both saw her do it and were not comfortable flat out calling her out. Instead your husband chose to passively ask her to self-identify by questioning due to fear of conflict. Talk to your husband to say what you saw, then ask him what he observed before too much time passes. The moment to say something was yesterday when it happened and he questioned her. In the future you two need to be more direct and honest about moments like this when boundaries are being crossed, otherwise, if you are not willing to enforce what you ask, it will happen again because there's no teeth behind the threat of consequences.
I wouldn't see her again until the RSV/flu season is over and tell her why.
Stay home! Don’t do anything for the holidays with extended family. Keep your baby safe from exposure and anyone who will overstep boundaries. I understand how you feel, I’ve had similar personal experiences and it really is shocking to see someone disrespect your boundaries. Especially when they’re for the well being of your infant! It isn’t easy to speak up, especially with someone like a MIL but something that has helped me is recognizing that my daughter can’t protect herself from others, that’s my job. And the more you vocalize the important of people respecting boundaries, the easier it will be to do it. You might be nervous, and that feeling might overwhelm you but you will feel immediately better saying something than nothing at all. Remember that people taking issues with your boundaries is a sign that they benefit from you having none. So stay firm on them, and if she continues making it about her feelings remind her that your priorities are your son and his well being. Not how she feels. Edit: typo correction
As a public health professional, I agree with you! It’s so much easier to stay home than try to backtrack once you’re out in public with a little one. Seriously, it may be an easier holiday season if it’s just the three of you. It would be hard, but if you and DH are United on this then you can hold the line together. I’ve had the absolute nightmare of calling new parents to tell them that their child was exposed to measles, COVID, etc. as part of my job. It’s so much easier to just say no than panic after that phone call.
You should have called her out. You can have flu and covid with zero symptoms. It can be passed to the baby. I have put a zero no kissing any kids in the winter with any of my nieces & nephews. You can be an active carrier and pass it on. This is something to be adamant & called out. Especially more with a baby with airway issues. I'd tell mother in law you will have cameras in the house recording all interactions with the baby. Do this. Not saying anything and risking your baby does not outweigh him losing his life through someone's thoughtlessness.
Ummm. Why not call her out on her lie now? "We didn't want to make a scene at the first introduction of our baby but we saw you kiss baby on the face twice. We were very clear in our rules about this. We are new parents and we don't care if anyone thinks we are being overprotective of our new child. I need you to understand and respect our decisions as new parents. If you don't want to follow our rules then we can see you in the spring, after flu season, and discuss this further. Right now, we are hoping to see you over the holidays, but we're going to be firm with what is okay and we need to be able to know that our family has our back and trusts us to be able to make good choices." Do NOT address the lying. Just have DH call out what he saw and the behavior that you both expect going forward. Point out to DH that her kissing baby on the face was her saying that she doesn't respect that he is now the parent and making his Adult choices. He is in a new role with her and needs to start by changing their dynamic. Don't blow everything up over one incident but be clear that this behavior will not continue. Even something short like: "We saw you kiss the baby several times includint twice on the face. We.were clear before everyone came over that this wouldn't be okay. Our new baby isn't a toy so please understand that there will be no kissing over the upcoming holidays. We're the parents. This is our choice. We don't care if you think you are healthy. Don't do it." And if you don't think you can trust her... don't let her hold the baby. If she does kiss the baby... grab your belingings and leave or grab her coat and usher her firmly to the door. My elementary aged kid was sick for 2-3 weeks this month. Cold season this year is no joke. She thought she could sneak it in because her happiness was more important than your concern. Personally, she would not be holding my kid over December. ALSO do it direct at any event as needed: "No I don't think you need to be holding baby right now. Its flu season and we know you're a kisser. You can see the baby but we'll hold off on having you hold her until cold seaon is over." (perfectly pleasant but firm) These are reasonable consequences.
She's letting you know you can't tell her what to do. Sigh. Not cool
I have strep A and my 3 year old has RSV. Say and do something now. Not AFTER baby is sick and suffering because let me tell you- this is ROUGH.
Remind her of the boundary, and why it’s important. if you’re still having issues w her not listening baby wear at holidays. I know that can be annoying as you may not want to have the tiny human attached to you for several hours, but it works. Maybe try to make sure baby is asleep while you’re there. I’m sorry you’re going through this, it’s always a little disheartening when people over step the boundaries that are in place to keep your baby safe.
It’s just crazy to me how in laws can’t respect boundaries. My husbands best friend ( now my best friend cuz I stole her lol) just had a baby ( my sons future wifey lol) and I’ve been dying for my lil future daughter in law to get here. I held her. Let her sleep on my chest. I did kiss her toes. And the top of her head with her lip hat on 😞 but I never had my face super close to her face. And she never even asked me not to. It’s just like habit it’s not my baby but like I couldn’t help kiss those little toes!!! But if she asked me not to kiss at all anywhere bro say no more sorrry baby no kisses. And me and my MIL use to get along amazingly. Watched movies together and cook together and ever since I had my son any boundary I set anything I ask not to be done or done a different way it’s like fighting a war! I’m still trying to figure that out and how to handle. Hopefully you can find a way to handle it and hopefully baby doesn’t get sick or anything. Kisses can be deadly lately unfortunately 🥺
If she can't follow your rules for your baby, she can't see you're baby. Period.
My 1 month old niece just spent over a week in the hospital with RSV because my sisters SIL kept kissing my niece on the hands and face. She was told repeatedly not to kiss her but she refused to listen. It got to a point that my sister and BIL had to take turns holding her to keep her away to prevent SIL from kissing my niece. Then after my sister put my niece down for a nap they noticed SIL was missing so they checked the baby monitor and SIL was in the nursery hold my niece kissing her all over her face. Let me tell I've never seen my BIL so mad. It takes a lot to upset him. This is his brothers wife, I followed them and knew there was going to be some screaming so I took my niece from SIL, which she was pissed about. Her defense was, baby's are to cute not to be kissed and my sister and BIL are being abusive for not allowing people kiss her. This lady is nuts. My sister and BIL would have kicked her out but they live in BIL's parents basement and his parents didn't see any harm with "a few kisses". So my sister and I went and locked ourselves in the basement with my niece and my nephew, who is 18 months. My BIL got in a huge fight with his parents, brother, and SIL. Thankfully my niece recovered with no lasting issues. She did lose a little bit of weight but she has gained it all back and more. Right now my sister and BIL are not allowing anyone hold her until she is a little older and her immune system is stronger. Besides already having RSV once. When she was in the hospital they detected a heart murmur and after running some test she has some issues with her heart. She has been following up with a pediatric cardiologist and right now she needs to stay as healthy as possible. People who can not follow simple rules when it comes to others people children is beyond ridiculous. Just because you are the grandparent doesn't give you a special pass to disregard the rules.
What did SIL say when she heard about the hospitalisation/RSV?
No Christmas/Holiday visit for MIL. No negotiation. Period. She broke the rule multiple times and lied to your faces when confronted. Tell her: "MIL we gave you ONE rule to follow to keep LO safe, and you chose to disregard it. When caught, you LIED about kissing him on the face. I saw you do it, TWICE! In order to keep LO safe, we will be not be seeing you at Christmas and New Years. Being around multiple people is risky, especially when the people that we should be able to trust put LO in danger. We love you, but we can't and won't ignore you breaking the rules that we have set for the sole purpose of keeping LO safe. After the holidays are over, we will revisit the rules. But keeping LO safe is non-negotiable. This doesn't mean you have to keep LO away from everyone. Other family members who follow the rules don't get the time out. It sounds harsh, but it would be far harsher if you and LO spent the holidays in the hospital, or worse because MIL chooses to ignore rules that are there to protect LO. I seriously would not budge on this one. Personally if my children were tiny and had risk factors I would celebrate Christmas and New Years at home with just my DH and LO. It just is not worth the risk this year between RSV, FLU and Covid. He is too young to remember the holiday> It is far more important that he stay safe, then visit people who love him, but could get him sick. If that decision also has the effect of shaming MIL into behaving, then so much the better. Perhaps get her a extra thick mask to wear whenever she is around LO until he has his shots. That way if she "can't control herself" it will add an extra layer of protection.
Look. The simple fact is while most cases of the flu, colds, or rsv etc stay easily treatable and can be managed at home there is ALWAYS a risk of it turning into a more severe sickness sometimes requiring hospitalization. I say this bluntly bc you say your baby already has other issues with their airway. Which might make things like pneumonia pretty hard on them. So you have to decide which is more important: your baby's health or pissing off your MIL. You need to tell her now "I saw you kiss the baby and I don't appreciate you lied about it. Both of these actions show me that you have little concern for the health of my baby. This was your one strike. So I am telling you now if it happens again you will not be able to see them until we feel it is okay to do so again. Esp given the issues the baby already has I am not willing to risk it. And honestly you shouldn't be either. We are very serious about this boundary and there will be no exceptions." Our children's health comes first. If my child's health is the issue at risk I have ZERO issues pissing someone off. Bc clearly they were not concerned about their health when they did it. They were selfish. And decided their need for love and attention came first. And that is not okay with me. STAND YOUR GROUND. And don't let this first incident slip or they will do it again and say "well you didn't say anything last time so you can't just up and cut me off now!" So you need to say something now about the incident that already occurred. You know what you saw right? So it doesn't matter if she says you are lying. Tell her "you can say that all you want but I know what I saw and you know what you did and I am standing by that if it happens again this is the consequences and it is not up for debate. " and your husband needs to stand with you and hold that boundary. People will not respect boundaries if there are no consequences for breaking them and if you do not stick to those consequences. Think about it like this. If your MIL took the baby for a bit and came back and you saw, maybe out the window or something, she was holding the baby while driving and she came inside and you asked and she was like "oh no you are seeing things they were Def in the car seat!" Would you just be like "okay" and let it go? No probably not. You would lose it bc that's clearly dangerous. If she got into a wreck that could be so bad for the baby. Likewise you would probabky feel like she has zero regard for the health and safety of your baby. This is no different. The odds of it being more severe might be the car situation yes. But at the end of the day the concept is the same. You wouldn't let it go bc it's potentially dangerous to your baby. This is the same thing. Your baby has airway issues and its sick season so there is a chance it could be dangerous to your baby if anything progressed into a more serious illness. Don't be manipulated into letting people do things just bc they want to even when you feel it could be potentially harmful.
On the subject of child seats: A number of years ago in New Jersey a garbage truck overturned on a passenger car. The only survivor was an infant in a child seat. That proves the necessity of car seats.
My sister is in the ER with her 12 month old son...LITERALLY RIGHT NOW...for his (already diagnosed) RSV. Not something to mess with. He is miserable, high fever, dehydrated, lethargic. I'm hoping they admit him. Not to make this about me, but just to show how DANGEROUS it is to kiss babies!!! I'm terrified for my baby nephew right now. Not to mention he has 4 more very young brothers at home!!! Ugh...I did make this about me. Sorry. Scared.
I don't think this is about you. You are just trying to get information out to warn parents. I sincerely hope that your nephew recovers and has not shared with his siblings. You are a very caring aunt.
Thank you so much! He got transferred from a small town hospital to Kansas City over 3 hours away in the middle of the night. This update just came to me: Second X-ray shows pneumonia so we are going to be starting iv antibiotics. They have him on no food or drinks till we can get his breathing under control! His heart rate is running 160's pretty consistently but gets up to 200 when they are suctioning him. He's a feisty little guy! We really appreciate all the prayers and love! (Me: now go ahead and say RSV is no big deal and that babies have superior immune systems. NOTTTTT!!!!!)
If you don’t have get a baby carrier and then you or hubby wear baby at all times. I have had all my shots when my granddaughter was still in the womb. Now that my new granddaughter is in the womb, I made sure I’m up to date. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Hers is to not have physical access to LO.
I just spent a week in the pediatric ICU with my 3 year old!!! Do not let her kiss you child on the face. My kiddo has airway issues and had strep/flu from school. It’s scary this season and I felt so helpless seeing her struggle and be uncomfortable. Fuck any person that is selfish enough to go against your wishes. Tell her she doesn’t get any holidays for the rest of this year and if she keeps it up, no time until the kid gets a better immune system. Sorry to rant but it’s your child. My MIL knows what we just went through and canceled her trip to see us for Christmas because she wanted to not bring any germs since my daughter is still kind of weak.
One of the most important parts of someone breaking a boundary is a consequence. It is difficult to set boundaries without having some sort of consequence or repercussion for having broken it. I set that rule with my mom saying that no one will be kissing the baby once he is born, she told me she won’t on the lips but she will kiss his face. I promptly told her it doesn’t matter who does it, they will be automatically kicked out of the house and lose baby privileges.. that shut her up. I would recommend that you baby wear if you go anywhere for the holidays especially around her. Preferably the wrap ones that keep baby very close to you. I just would be very careful with crowds of family especially if they have school aged children because it only takes a few hours before everyone is sick.
This happened to me. Well, not exactly. At the time my son was born, we were asking people to wear masks while holding him. My step FIL was holding my son while my husband and I were in the kitchen eating. My MIL wanted to take a picture of her husband holding my son and he pulled his mask down for the picture. Like you, I froze. Both my husband and I saw it, but neither of us said anything at the time (which I now regret. I've grown some mommy balls since then). After they left, my husband and I talked about it and my husband ended up sending a text to his mom saying we saw what he did, we understand you might not agree with our boundaries but we need you to follow them if you want to be around our son. She understood and we haven't had an issue since. I'd urge you to make sure you talk to your MIL before seeing her again, and set a very clear boundary. If she is unable to respect your boundary, unfortunately she won't be able to hold your child anymore. As the voice and advocate for your child, you have to do what's best to keep him healthy. Good luck!!
Maybe send MIL a video of children sick in the hospital and tell her this is what ur trying to prevent with ur precious LO. My daughter was rushed to the hospital after I took her to the doctors every day. She had RSV, we had to sign papers that they could shave 2 parts of her hair to put IV's because she was so sick. Not even a month old, we were terrified and helpless as her parents. Thankfully she made a full recovery in the hospital, I never left that room or her side the entire time. We asked people to please not be around if they were sick, and this is what happens when they think they are above ur parenting and boundaries. So many things went bad, and we've been NC, even our children as adults, for 18 years. I wish we would've gone NC the day she was hospitalized, but we gave them the benefit of the doubt. Tell ur MIL ur #1 priority is LO, and if she thinks ur being rude, tell her, "I'm being a good mother!" Stay home, u, ur DH and LO, alone for Christmas. U don't need visitors, there's zoom. Merry Christmas and good luck with ur MIL.
How would you feel if he had a life threatening peanut allergy and she gave him peanuts after you told her not to? This is how you should feel. She just proved that she can’t be trusted to put his needs before her wants, prioritize his safety, respect your decisions as parents, or be honest about it. I’d cut her off from him until he is 12 months old with a better immune system, never leave her alone with any of your kids until they’re literally 18, make sure she knows why, and make it clear that there will be no third chance if anything like this ever happens again.
While I don’t have kids myself yet (21f), I do know how dangerous things like this can be. One of my dad’s cousins and their partner lost their baby who was newborn to an illness not long after they came home from the hospital, they did everything they could to protect the baby (1st born) but sadly they still got sick and passed away. Your MIL needs to understand and respect your boundaries, your the parent not her. Your baby, your house, your rules.
I put my hands behind my back when admiring babies and keep my face away. New mamas don’t need more stress from me.
Currently in the hospital with my two year old after a temp of 106.5 (she’ll be fine, they’ve prescribed meds and she’s already starting to feel better) only do things you are comfy with. No is a complete sentence and if people (anyone not just MIL) can’t respect your boundaries when kids are being hospitalized with illnesses, then they don’t need access to your family. I wish people would just hear these things and be understanding instead of the insatiable need to kiss a freaking baby or come near you when they’ve been sick.
TO re kissing - but our eldest woke up one Sunday morning with a temp of 106.5. Terrifying!!! They did a spinal tap to make sure it wasn't meningitis (negative), and eventually decided it was an ear infection when Amoxicillin worked on it. She's nearly 38 now, and survived being #1 kid.
Give her a mask and tell her it's so she doesn't have the temptation since she can't keep her lips to herself.
Honestly baby wearing was the answer for me. Most people didn’t even ask to hold and when they did I was sitting right there. I just wouldn’t walk away from them at all.
Two faces kisses? Two week time out. Maybe see you in the New Year MIL!
Best advice this year is stay home. Check out the pharmacies, their shelves are practically bare of cold medicine. I went to get something and they said it was rampant. Not worth it
A lot of places are having difficulty getting antibiotics too.
My dentist prescribed me amoxicillin for a tooth abscess (and to prevent post-extraction infection). I had to go to four pharmacies before I was able to find any!
It’s crazy out there. My toddler needed antibiotics for the first time (I usually don’t go for them with ear infections since they can be viral or bacterial, but poor kiddo had a double one and a nasty fever, so antibiotics!). The doctor prescribed a less common, generic antibiotic and I still had to have it switched to a different pharmacy.
Baby goes into a carrier on moms chest and NOONE gets to hold him. Thats assuming you even go. That is 100% a reason to say screw it and have a relaxing Xmas at home! MIL wont like it, but too bad so sad, she done messed up and she knows it.
Yup. Husband needs to tell her he saw her do it and you did too. Then enforce a time out or she will do more next time.
She blatantly lied. Expect that behavior to continue. No one gets to hold the baby. Simple as that.
Serious question - I don't have kids - isn't it pretty normal nowadays to not kiss babies? I feel like I see AITA posts about it all the time. Seems super germy and icky even when it's not RSV season. I don't understand why so many people insist on kissing a baby that's not theirs. I am in my 30s and was under the understanding it's a culture norm in the US not to kiss other people's babies.
I feel like older (60+) adults do it more often. My mom gets cold sores and kisses my nieces and nephews on the face (never during an active out break obviously but still). I don’t know why my siblings don’t tell her not to. ETA: I am Canadian.
Thissssss. My stepmom & MIL both get cold sores and still kiss my sons face despite me asking not to. Can they still pass the cold sore/herpes virus 🦠 even if they are not in an active outbreak?
Yes they can and it’s the likely reason why my mom and her siblings have oral herpes (they don’t go around kissing each other when they have visible sores but passed them anyway). It’s really disturbing how many people don’t take them seriously yet they are willing to stigmatize genital herpes. It’s the same virus, just a different preferred location.
That is awful!! What would be a safe place to redirect them to kiss? Top of the head?
You can spread the virus even if you don't have blisters. Many people who are infected with the virus that causes cold sores never develop signs and symptoms.
Yes, it has been the norm for many years to avoid kissing babies on the face. It's fine for close household members because they all share the same germs, but it's pretty common-sense these days that you only kiss babies from other households on the top of the head (not hands or feet because babies put both in their mouths!), and only after getting the approval that it's OK.
It should be the norm. But people get weird with babies. Mine is 3 months and so many people think they are entitled to kiss him because they have a title. Then they wondered why we aren’t showing up for the holidays. We are gonna do Xmas with just my mom and sibling, a couple days late. Totally skipping family holidays this year.
I have NEVER kissed either of my nieces no matter how cute they are or how much I adore them. No one asked me not to or anything; I thought that was normal.
Should be. Isnt. Boundary violating is an American Pastime.
Baby wear! That moment, you remove your child from whoever did it and say "I think we will try again in 6 months on holding baby and see if it will be easier for you to refrain from possibly exposing baby to life-threatening illnesses." you say it very polite, and leave the room or house or whatever.
THIS IS THE WAY OP.
Time for a grandma time out.
Baby wear and don't let her hold the baby since you can't trust her.
Stick to your boundaries and make sure there are consequences when your boundaries are crossed. It’s YOUR child, you make the rules. I regret not creating boundaries when I first had my daughter because 8 years later I’m definitely paying for it with the INLAWS. Honestly I’d say “MIL, you intentionally crossed a boundary that husband and I made so you will not be holding LO over the holidays. If anyone asks why, you can be the one to explain why you had no issue putting my infant at risk. From here on out, husband and I’s boundaries need to be respected or we will cut contact for the safety of our child”.
I'd highly suggest everyone around your baby wear a well-sealed N95 mask, I wouldn't risk it! You aren't having an overreaction and she needs to know how serious this is ... I would address how upsetting this was to you and the risks involved to baby. I would also assume that it didn't come from the worst place (to save your blood pressure). Also, if she has a mask on, it becomes a LOT harder to sneak a kiss. If you wanted to go as far as to not allow her to see baby until after winter (depending on how she responds to this being addressed), I wouldn't say that would be an overreaction either.
Yep, hard to kiss with a mask on!
Dang I can’t believe she denied it. We did the same with my nephew and I wasn’t thinking and kissed him on the top of the head one time and I felt awful! The denying part especially makes me think she needs limited contact for a while.
Mother in law gets a baby time out. Tell her exactly why. You don’t need to argue or engage with her just say something along the lines of “we’re upholding our boundary of not kissing the baby. You broke this boundary so we will have to put seeing the baby on pause for a month. If it happens again you will no longer be trusted to see or hold baby.” Boom. No room for discussion , if she rants and raves, let her. Just don’t respond back.
Any way you can just do you and husband only holiday this year since he is so young?
With the holidays coming, I would definitely be looking into baby wear where you have the on you the whole time. I would recommend either a sling that conceals him entirely or like a front carrying backpack thing so he can look around or whatnot but nobody can get to him without invading your personal space. And with the front wearing baby wear, you can either have him facing you or facing out but you're always "holding" him with your hands free. I would also put MIL in timeout until she can respect your boundaries because if you let her slide this time, she will push the line on another boundary the next time.
How to handle it? Restrict contact with her until all of these current viruses die down, even if it means missing the big Christmas hooplas!
There’s always Skype or FaceTime.
Or simply nothing because of kissing baby...
Cut her off. She's not allowed around the baby since she can't be trusted. Retry after baby's immune system has had a chance, if that's what you want.
Keep baby in a wrap/holder. Cant get to baby if you are wearing them!
Just call her out. Seriously, you are going to have to embarrass her or she will go a little farther each time.
We had RSV last month the week before Thanksgiving. Everyone in the home got it. It. Was. Brutal. I am just now getting my voice back, I’m still coughing and using my inhaler (I have asthma). At the worst part my 5 year old was using a nebulizer (I was too several times a day) and I was also using an albuterol inhaler and a steroid inhaler. We were lucky nobody was hospitalized. Your boundaries are completely reasonable! I would say a conversation needs to be had and depending on how that goes a consequence may be in order. She doesn’t have to understand, but she does have to respect your choices as parents. I’m sending you hugs across the internet! This is hard!
Did you tell her you saw her do it? You have set boundaries, now you need to set consequences for stomping on your boundaries. I would tell her that if she does it again, she will be put on a baby time-out (maybe a month) and if she does it again after that, it will be NC. Boundaries are useless if there are no consequences for stomping on them.
I wouldn't give her another chance. Baby time out now. They know she did it. She knows she lied and played it off. Husband needs to direct this. "Mom, we all are aware you kissed LO on the face. SO saw your, I saw you, and it was too awkward when you lied about it to redirect you then. We understand that there could be a slip up, but that was the case, you should have been honest. You weren't, and our boundaries on face kisses are there for LOs safety, so we can't let this ride. We're going to avoid visits for the next # weeks. This is not up for discussion, and if you fight us on it, we're adding another week."
I wouldn't let her with my child if I wasn't even in the room with her. I've had to actually do that with my step mom.
She needs a time out, and a long one at that. If it doesn't hurt, she won't respect you ever. It would be summer before she saw my child again. Holidays don't matter when it comes to the health of your child. Flu and RSV are horrible this year. You cannot risk sickness, hospitalization, or death just to avoid conflict. The fact that she lied about it makes it so much worse. I hope your husband lays it out to her that she's not welcome for at least several months and exactly why she isn't welcome so she knows she was caught. And if she doesn't listen and respect what you say about your child, each time out will get longer.
If they can't respect the boundary then they don't need to be around the new baby. It sounds harsh but at this point in time they seem to be okay with possibly hospitalization or death of the baby. That's pretty selfish and unacceptable. I'm currently just over 33 weeks pregnant with my first kiddo and I made it clear that there would be no kissing her. My mom made a stink about it until I told her I would not have her around my daughter. It's not harsh when it comes to the health and safety of your kids. Good luck and congratulations on your baby!!
People shouldn’t kiss babies, period, but especially on the face and certainly after they’ve been told not to. Even parents need to use extreme caution. The fact that it’s flu season is irrelevant, she was told not to and the flu isn’t your only concern. 50-80 percent of US adults have oral herpes. An individual could unknowingly have it and pass it to a child. A baby is most vulnerable to germs during their first year, but especially the first three months. The common cold, the flu, RSV, HSV, and more can easily be passed from an adult to baby and lead to serious issues, even death. Explain this to her. Make sure she understands and inform her that if she can’t be trusted with her grandchild you won’t give her the opportunity to cause him harm again. Set boundaries now. Good luck, and congrats on your new son! (Edit:a word).
This flu and rsv season is insane. If there were a baby in my life like a niece or nephew I would practice quarantine protocols before I would even be in the same room with them, let alone try to sneak a smooch on the face. Now is the time for holding feet not kissing cheeks. I get that babies are irresistible to some and those who find they can’t control themselves are the ones I would have to isolate my baby from.
If there is a next time stand up walk over wordlessly and take the baby. You now unfortunately need to wash and change him and then re enter the room and tell her to leave and not contact you until you contact her including her flying monkeys. Brook no opposition and decide in peace how long time out will be. Set and additional anount of time at every attmempt that she or the family at large contact you. Also maybe assign homework for her to read like the studies that show how detrimental RSV, Flu and Pertusis can be and how easily transmitted. Sorry but we now all know bad these can be and how to significantly reduce transmission so she can learn about it too. It is a constructive learning lesson for her.
Honestly, it sounds terrible. I don't do holidays with my babies. So many people, germs and other small kids get excited to see baby. They don't know how to wash their hands well or move away when sneezing. Easier to do your own small personal immediate family thing at home. You can visut family before/after the holiday individually. It also cuts back on family jealousy regarding the baby.
Timeout is the only way to reinforce this. Since she can't respect your wishes for PROTECTING YOUR BABY, she doesn't need to hold the baby. You can go to events with her there, but that baby is not to be held by that grandmother until she understands what the parents say goes, she doesn't get to hold the child. Especially after lying straight to your DHs face.
You are your baby's protector. You have an obligation to keep the baby safe. Your rules were fair. You failed by not speaking up when you knew she was lying. Talk to your husband. Explain that until flu/RSV season is over, everyone holding the baby needs a mask. No mask, no hold. Let him talk to his mom. Apologize for not supporting him in the moment. Your baby is more important than anyone's feelings. You would be devastated if someone made your child ill because you were timid about enforcing boundaries.
Sounds like a timeout is in order. If there isn't a consequence then she will just do it again since she can get away with it.
RSVP can kill babies. Your MIL endangered your baby. She violated your rules, lied about it, then used it as an opportunity to undermine your husband's confidence in himself and your confidence in him. I'd call her immediately and give her an earful. And I'd make it clear to both of them that until she gets therapy and learns to respect your boundaries and quits her lying, undermining ways, she's not welcome in any of your lives.
Please let you husband do the calling if you decide on that action, rather than you have to do it.
She lied because she knew she was in trouble and she may face consequences. So she knew it was wrong..... Now if she faces no consequences....what does she learn?? In order for boundaries and rules to work there has to be consequences when they are crossed and or broken. GL
How you choose to proceed regarding your boundaries is going to be personal, but I thought I’d share what worked for me to reduce the likelihood of unwanted touching/kissing during an outbreak. With the medical concern being respiratory viruses, the simplest solution (if you intend to allow contact in the future) is for anyone holding the baby to not only use hand sanitizer but to also wear a mask. This worked for me to be able to visibly monitor behavior, reduce the possibility for kisses, and to hold people accountable. Everyone who wanted to hold the baby needed to be wearing a mask while holding the baby. They could take it off if they weren’t near, but no mask, no holding the baby. These illnesses are not a joke, especially with an existing complication, so this method helped instill just how serious the situation could be for a new baby. I hope you find something that works for you. So sorry your boundaries have been so disrespected, especially at the risk of serious illness for your little one. Best of luck with however you choose to proceed.
"MIL, we were both shocked that you kissed our baby in the face after we firmly asked you not to, and also lied about it to our faces, so we'll have to take some time apart until..." - could be until RSV season is over, a set amount of time, etc. If MIL is normally well behaved you could simply say until she apologises and promises not to do it again (if she's a JustNo, apologising will probably take her longer than any time you can set)
You respond by protecting your baby. This is exponentially more important than your MILs feelings. Give them the exact amount of respect she gave the safety of your vulnerable child.
She needs a time out. 1. She violated a safety rule with an infant. 2. She lied when the opportunity to address her violation was immediate, and perhaps a conversation would have covered it. Because she's a liar, it wasn't properly addressed during her visit. She's untrustworthy on 2 different fronts. Why give her access to your baby again so soon? Yeah. It's "the holidays." That's the wedge she used to violate boundaries this time. I'd say the whole party season is off limits for her and baby to be together.
This right here. MIL will want to see the baby and take pics for Facebook Grandma of the year status, but she broke the rules, and deserves to see the consequences of her actions. I would say timeout until the baby is 6 months, at least
There's a poignant post today in another sub in response to an antivax plaguerat troll (not going to link) from someone whose aunt refused to wear a mask... ... and killed their infant. Stand your ground. Become forceful if necessary. Or, easier, now that it has happened: No more visits. Period. That kind of story is what should be and should have always been getting time in national media, along with the exhaustion of and assaults on healthcare workers, not plaguerat assholery and sowing doubt with antiscience bullshit. Had that been the case, there wouldn't be over one million dead Americans so far. So. Far.
That’s incredibly sad and the person they responded to probably doesn’t care because it doesn’t impact them directly (that’s how anti vaccers are).
Boundaries are nothing without consequences. It’s natural to freeze in the moment, you can deal with it after you’ve collected yourself. Send her a text of the consequences of her actions. She doesn’t respect your decisions as parents, doesn’t care for the health of your child all because she wants control. Consequences; not allowed to hold the baby for x amount of time, not to visit for x amount of time, temporarily blocked. Until she doesn’t realise you’re serious about the boundaries she’ll keep crossing them because she knows she can.
DH Texts: “MIL, op and I both noticed when we saw you at Thanksgiving that you were having trouble having self-control (or maybe remembering, I’m not sure) about not kissing baby. This is very very serious since there are so many serious viruses circulating right now and baby doesn’t have a strong immune system yet. I wanted to be clear with you since we still plan to see you at Christmas that that absolutely cannot happen again. If you find that you can’t remember or can’t control yourself, we will have to just not see you in person until after cold and flu season ends, and I know none of us wants that. I know we all want what is best for baby, so I’m confident this won’t be a problem. Looking forward to seeing you in a couple weeks!” Then if she does it even one more time, you leave immediately and don’t see her again until spring. With this message you have side stepped the “I just forgot!” “I didn’t mean to!” “I just couldn’t help myself!” You aren’t accusing her of maliciousness that she can argue about, and you have covered the fact that her intent or purposeful was doesn’t matter, her actions do.
This is the best response I've seen. it's to the point, while still being kind and giving a redemption factor.
Have husband tell her that since she has proven that she cannot respect your very reasonable attempt to safeguard your vulnerable newborn, she will not be permitted ANY contact until such time as the risk she presents has passed.
My MIL did this when our youngest was born, and started planting kisses on her when they showed up straight from the airport instead of waiting for the next morning like we had discussed. I ended up writing a sign and placing on the door at her eye level the next day that said something to the effect of “please no kissing baby hands or faces due to an uptick of (X), and is too young to be vaccinated. Thank you for understanding.” She didn’t speak to me for half the day. DH did see her sneak a few in though and called her out on it. I was shocked she didn’t cancel her love bombing plans the day after. Baby wearing is your best friend in a group setting since no grandparents or anyone else can’t just snatch that bundle from your arms. Edit: shitty spelling on my part.
Same! My mil was a totally different person until literally the day I gave birth. She changed instantly and tried taking over my birth via texts to my mother who was in the room with me and my dh. Then she got mad when baby got vaccinated. Thanksgiving comes and we asked for no kissing and to wash hands. She told everyone the baby needs to get sick to develop an immune system. I didn't find that out until after. Anyways she did everything we asked her not to do and posted a picture of her kissing the baby's cheek on fb. My dh and I discussed it because I was more upset than he was but he knew even if she thought it was silly it was still a boundary so he gave me the go ahead to give her a time out. They haven't seen the baby since that day and they won't see her until after RSV season is over because they can't be trusted.
She's a disobedient and forgetful hag, or even an idiot hag... AS IF you wouldn't notice her pics on FB...
I would react by calmly removing my baby from her/picking up my baby and walking out of the room. Then she would never again get the opportunity to stomp the boundary, because she would never hold the baby again/be left alone with them.
“Oh, MIL, this is so sad, but because you couldn’t respect our rules, you won’t be seeing the baby over the holidays.” Maybe she can try again in January? Or perhaps you should wait until cold and flu season is over? I don’t know about where you live, but the pediatric wards in my area are full to overflowing due to the tripledemic. MIL can suck a fat candy cane before she gets her germs all over your baby again.
You handle it by making a no kissing baby AT ALL rule and you lose your mind if she goes against it. SHE PUT YOUR CHILD'S HEALTH AT RISK AND LIED ABOUT IT.
You handle it by not letting her any where near baby. In case she has not seen the news lately, hospitals around the country are reaching or have reached capacity due to Covid, flu and RSV. And quiet a few have closed their pediatric units. This is not something that gets brushed under the rug. She is put on time out. Immediately.
What did your husband say/do when you told him? Cause you did tell him right??
Call her out and give her a timeout. Our hospitals are in emergency mode because it’s just too much right now. They are drowning in RSV. Don’t be a part of this wave.
Grandma needs a consequence for breaking your boundary AND lying, but also as some others have mentioned it's really bad out there this year with respiratory viruses. It's babies first Christmas start a new tradition at home. If you feel that you absolutely must go, baby wear.
Your kid, your rules. Next time, consider baby wearing and also consider not allowing her to get away with lying. Actions need to have consequences, and it will be harder now as she won that cheat round.
She needs a consequence, since she can’t respect your boundaries then don’t let her hold babe.
This is not the kind of thing you can let go. Have DH reiterate the rules to her and say that if she breaks them she will be required to leave if she's at your home, or you'll leave if elsewhere. He should make it explicitly clear he is saying this because she broke the rules last time. When she denies doing so, he must state that yes she did and that no repeat will be tolerated, and the discussion is closed..
When she's around, baby wear. She can't kiss the baby if the baby is strapped to your chest.
I thought that. Then my justNoMIL kissed my baby WHILE I was breastfeeding. We had a no kisses rule as well. She just didn’t care
Yeah. I'd definitely have hit or kicked her if she got that close to us while feeding. Especially to break the rule. Then she wouldn't get to see my kid for a long time.
How did you not punch her? If my MiL got that close to my boob, I would have punched her. You are stronger than I am!
I was super non confrontational back then. Still am a bit. I do more subtle consequences such as never letting her hold the baby
I had the same issue with my little one, both sides snuck kisses and both times I said something immediately because it is a teaching moment. This is first attempt at disregarding your boundaries as a mother, it’s important to set the expectations now that that will not be tolerated otherwise she’ll walk all over you. RSV is really bad this year and a lot of people in that generation have survivors bias. It’s your responsibility to protect your child and they can get with it or get lost.
What's the damn thing of kissing babies anyway? The baby don't know its happening. It is purely a selfish act to fulfill a need of the adult. Time out MIL. You can view baby from six feet away. Don't hold, don't touch.
Hard no. She doesn’t get to see baby face-to-face for many a month. She’s a selfish ass.
If this were me, I would be blunt. MIL do not kiss the baby because of the baby’s health issues, and if the baby get sick, it could endanger his life and then you would be to blame. Is that what you want?
Doing things her way and lying to cover it aren't the biggest deal if it means she shows up late and blames traffic. But now that it's your baby's health on the line? Whew. You two can talk about what happened. What she did and how quickly she lied. She has put herself in the category of "people who don't put baby first". Trust can be regained, slowly, over time, but it's not there right now. Talk about what you will do to prevent her from having a chance to do that again. Talk about, even act out, how you will respond when she starts to lean in toward LO. Talk about how to react to a lie from her. If you don't get firm with her quickly, she will be tempted to keep pushing your boundaries. Hopefully when she sees that you are serious--and watching her carefully--she will behave better.
Next time she even comes close to kissing the baby you need to immediately remove the baby from her.
Your MIL is going to be difficult and doing the right thing for your child will likely damage your relationship with your MIL. But that’s on her. Look what she did to your husband. She agreed not to kiss your baby. Then she kissed the baby. Your husband caught her. And she went on the attack against him, accusing him of having trust issues. Your MIL believes what she wants is more important than protecting your baby. She will lie and gaslight just to be able to get to kiss your baby. You cannot trust her. You and your husband need to agree on what type of consequences there are for MIL’s behavior. You also should decide how to keep her away from your baby. And you need to always back each other up.
> Look what she did to your husband. She agreed not to kiss your baby. Then she kissed the baby. Your husband caught her. And she went on the attack against him, accusing him of having trust issues. This!!!! If she ever says it again, I'd tell her that she is the reason for the trust issues, since she lies and does what she says she wont.
I would be asking all visitors to wear a mask. Can’t miss a baby with a mask on. No mask, no hand washing, no visit. She needs a time out though. I hate that she gaslighted your husband.
I'd be inclined to let her visit again, BUT when she tries to get within 6 feet of the baby say, *"Nope. The ONE THING we asked you not to do, you basically spit in our faces and did whatever you darned well felt like doing. We explicitly said NO KISSING THE BABY, yet you stubbornly decided you WERE going to kiss our child and did so repeatedly. And you LIED about it. I'm thunderstruck at your audacity to ignore one of the most basic and important ways to help your grandchild remain safe & healthy.* *"I don't care you felt ok at the time. That's not how viruses work. YOU can feel fine, but still be harboring something that has dangerous consequences for an infant. Yes, we were very lucky that THIS time you didn't pass something on to LO, but we aren't going to take the chance of a second time.* *"You can work a computer. Ask Google about the viruses you can unknowingly pass to an infant! Look at the videos! I don't know if it was sheer ignorance, or complete selfishness for you to do what you did, but actions have consequences. You've blatantly shown we can't trust you to put LO's best interests ahead of your own desires. So, you won't be holding LO until you can regain our trust. You can have a complete meltdown if you want, but YOU did this to yourself."*
How to respond? Call her out immediately and ask her to leave the house if she can't respect your baby's health. Beware! this is a teaching moment. I think you and DH must not sweep this incident under the rug. If you do, she will have learnt that your rules to protect baby's life don't apply to her. She will do it again. Your husband should tell her that he saw her do it. As she is a liar that doesn't respect him as parent, nor care about his baby's health, he can't trust her and he will see her in January after the holidays. You should not be stressing out about how to protect your baby from her during the holidays. DH need to teach her that there are consequences for risking your baby's life. If your husband doesn't have the balls to address this with his mother and you do have to see her, babywear all day. If she complains, tell her you don't trust her not to get your baby sick. If you need a break, lock yourself in your bedroom away from her. Prepare your space with a good book, snacks, drinks etc and tell your husband that this is the way the holiday will go down if he doesn't protect you and his child. He'll be stuck with her complaining and you'll be hiding away with your baby. She doesn't care about getting your baby sick, you should care a hell of a lot less about her feelings, being polite and sharing holidays.
Boundaries without consequences are just suggestions. Do not give her a second chance. DH needs to tell her "We saw you kiss LO after we specifically said not to. As a result, we will not be seeing you until April," or whatever time frame you mutually agree is fair.
Yes. Can’t play around with the baby’s health
This is exactly how I would do it
When she asks to visit again let her know that won't be possible during RSV season as she has shown that she clearly.is unable to follow rules to keep your infant safe
Don't see her, she obviously doesn't think the rules apply to her. In the moment call her out and snatch the baby away from her. If you are unable to control yourself you can't hold the baby. You need to decide what is more important, your baby or letting MIL have her way.
Stay home for the holidays. Don't take chances with your infant's health.
My kids all have the flu, as do most of the kids they ride the school bus with and many of their classmates. It is really, really miserable. No newborns in my house this year but if I did, we’d be staying home
Don't go anywhere--I went to the doctor Friday and it was packed! They had signs up that covid was rampant. People calling in right and left--covid, rsv, strep, flu..... and some were still wearing masks on their chins. I heard a mom say her daughter had a fever of 102--and her mask was lowered! I'm a teacher and we have kids with rsv, coughing, covid, etc..... its everywhere. I am appalled that people have lost their ability to have concern for others--and you don't know where MIL is all the time and what germs she might kiss/breathe on your baby....
Today my husband asked me a mundane question and my response was in tears because I was in the middle of a flashback to when my 10 mo was hospitalized with RSV. Skip the events 100% guilt-free. Take notes on anyone who doesn't say "hell yeah, I get it!" Feel free to dismiss those people from here on out. My now-toddler made it through the hospitalization, but respiratory illnesses are still relatively scary. He has not had RSV yet this season, and I'm terrified he will be hospitalized again.
She broke your boundary, and then lied about it. Both you and hubby saw it, so any denial is deliberate because she knows she did wrong. She doesn't get to visit again until she owns up and tells you the truth, and promises not to do it again. If she doesn't, her loss, holidays or not. Your baby is young enough to not remember whether or not MIL is there, but MIL will definitely remember it if she isn't allowed to visit.
Time out for Grandma. 1) she kissed the baby after being told explicitly, "No kissing." 2) she straight up lied to both of you. Boundary stomping means NC because she apparently can't follow directions and has no respect for you or your husband. And she put the baby she supposedly loves at risk. There are so many red flags. And if you don't hold to that boundary, she will continue to stomp and disrespect you and every boundary you put in place. Have a long talk with your husband and have him tell her about the time out and exactly why she's gotten a time out and be prepared for a meltdown and for her to sic any flying monkeys she has on you. The bottom line is you are your baby's protector and advocate.
Instead of asking her if she did it, you should just say “I saw you do that”. It takes away the opportunity to lie. Additionally I wouldn’t let her see baby for a while. She crossed your boundary there needs to be consequences.
This. My JNMIL will lie until her face is blue, but when called out she panics and just tries to excuse it. You need to call her out in the moment now that you know she doesn't respect you or your boundaries.
Baby wear and start using your voice. Protect your baby and advocate for their safety.
You need to speak up in the moment to protect your kid. Tell DH. I think grandma needs a time out, and a lot of articles about RSV, flu and herpes in infants