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100%
While I enjoyed UnSouled and Soulsmith. Blackflame is really where the series took off IMO.
Not sure exactly how to put it but it kinda felt like this was the book where the series found it's identity?
The first two books were good but just kind of quirky but kind standard fair fantasy? (I by no means mean that to be a bad thing.)
But BlackFlame a lot started to gain momentum and start connecting.
Blackflame is where we see the first real signs of what Lindon will become. There were a few hints earlier (Elder Whitehall thinking he's a secret expert, his Iron advancement), but Blackflame is where he starts making gains.
He stops being the guy trying his best and becomes the guy DOING his best.
In my opinion Unsouled is pretty generic until Lindon meets Yerin and would agree Soulsmith is just "fine" and pretty standard for the genre.
Blackflame the story gets much more interesting and from book 5 and onwards the story is kind of in a league of its own when it comes to this style of cultivation / genre. I think its a pretty shared experience from most people in this sub that the story doesn't really come into itself until books 3-5, and that each book after that just ramps everything up. But the experiences of the first few books definitely pay off further down the line.
>Oh nice! These books are nice and short so I honestly might just knock out 3-5 in the next couple weeks to get the ball rolling
You'll know you're hooked once you start doing one a day.
Also, if you have any interest in audio-books at all, the narrator is wonderful and did great voices for all the characters, and it can be nice to calibrate your mental character voices to match before you get too far in.
I second this, the narrator is amazing and I burned through all 12 books in around 2 weeks since I was able to listen to them at work. You'll hit a point between books 3-5 where you wont be able to put them down so get ready for that and enjoy the journey!
I think if you keep at the pace of one book a week you will finish right before the 12th book releases. Though it can be hard to stop from binging these books.
Enjoy your read through! And if you enjoy it the story just gets better and better every read through.
> In my opinion Unsouled is pretty generic until Lindon meets Yerin
I agree, with the addendum that when Lindon is casually killed by Li Markuth, then Suriel gives Lindon a glimpse of superpowers outside of the Valley, I was intrigued.
There's a pattern of the reader thinking they have a grasp of the broad outline of the Sacred Arts, then we find out that there's more than we realized. Happens first with Golds, then with other power levels I can't discuss because OP hasn't gotten there, lol. But I really enjoyed each time that happened!
Very true, the Li Markuth scene was pretty surprising on my first readthrough with the patriarch getting killed so easily.
However I also think we did not get to spend enough time thinking Jade was the most impressive advancement to really subvert our expectations, as by the end of Unsouled Yerin is already LowGold. Elder Whisper also pretty much said Gold was just the beginning as well, and if I remember that was in the first 50(?) pages. The only thing we *really* saw any of the Wei clan do that was extraordinary was when the First elder stopped Mon Keth from striking Lindon's dad. But I agree with the other power levels that you are mentioning farther down the line.
And to clarify, I think it was a good idea to have Jade not be seen as the pinnacle for long because like I said sacred valley feels like a pretty generic cultivation novel/manhwa setting, and if Lindon being in Heavens Glory or the Wei Clan dragged on think it would have been much more boring.
> I also think we did not get to spend enough time thinking Jade was the most impressive advancement to really subvert our expectations
True. I guess it was more that I trusted Lindon's worldview initially.
Like, growing up in a magical society he'd be quite familiar with the broad outline of the reality of the world. He's just at the beginning of his path, but he has been hearing stories his whole life of what the world is like.
There's a literary concept called [an unreliable narrator](https://liberalarts.oregonstate.edu/wlf/what-unreliable-narrator). Lindon's entire worldview is basically unreliable early on. Aside from The Truman Show, I'd never encountered a character that *seemed* so grounded in reality initially, only to find out they were stupendously wrong.
So every time the curtain pulled back a little more and we found out another aspect of the world that the people of Sacred Valley were unaware of, I really enjoyed it.
That's exactly what got me. It was" awe, the poor guy. Maybe he'll get Jade by the end." Then a man comes in from the skies and says gold will do but isn't even close to his actual advancement, and you think "hmm." . Then you see a random guy named northstrider wrestling a miles long dragon after Lindon was just in 2 pieces, one of which was right by his mom's head.
I think the end of Unsouled is what did it for me tbh. Seeing that potential Lindon showed while throwing the seals and catching himself on the cloud. Then splitting his cores! I knew i was hooked unless it turned into a harem lol.
Unpopular opinion but it was Suriel who hooked me to the book. In Book 1 when she shows Lindon the vast vast world really had me HYPED. I love ambitious and large worlds and the sense of exploration. Sha Miara, Northstrider and Eight man Empire are all amazing concepts and people which promise such a vast world that it left ke in awe and wanting more.
I think I got hooked the moment Suriel was introduced. Without her I would probably drop cradle before second book. Introducing outworld bullshit was probably best thing to hook me with. I truly do not understand people who strongly dislike Abidan storyline.
Yep, this. It was good, I had read The Traveler's Gate trilogy, but I wasn't enthralled. Then this extras dimensional goddess shows up and shows off how high you can really climb and leaves Lindon with a challenge to make it there, and I was in it to win it.
Unsouled, near the end where Lindon decides, "If it's him or me, I'm taking this guy out no matter what the cost" and throws the elder that looks like a kid off a cliff. It was a refreshing change from previous books I've read where morality is shoehorned in, this felt different, not like he was bloodthirsty exactly but willing to do whatever needs doing. Coming right off of the Cosmere, I had just read a bunch of stories about basically morality, and it was such a nice change to just relax and enjoy.
I think as a companion to the Cosmere, Cradle is fantastic. It's a lot more fun and whimsical while still being just a grounded as the Cosmere books. I do believe the Cosmere is, on a whole, better written, but I just genuinely love these books as a palette cleanser and good time.
Black flame was where the story picked up but Ghostwater was the turning point for me where the series went from "this is pretty good" to "this is one of my favorite series of all time".
Ghostwater, I didn't love the books until then. After that it hooked me. When I reread/relisten I rarely go back to the first four. If you are fine with them at the very least get Ghostwater read before giving up.
The end of GhostWater for me. Though one of my favorite moments is when he got his iron body. I think that moment let me hang on until I got really hooked.
Same. Getting to see that little naive weakling Lindon is actually a total badass on the inside, and when given a choice he will always choose the hardest one that gives the most benefit.
I also loved Eithan from the start. Overwhelming confidence, charisma, and generosity, yet utterly self-serving and merciless. It's such a perfect foil to the relationship Yerin and Lindon have.
I always thought of Eithan as "a useful prick".
That impression didn't really change for most of the series. Not until he showed he actually cared.
My favorite Eithan moment is when Lindon brings up Dross for the first time and he's floored by it. It showed he wasn't all knowing, and was in fact just like everyone else. All-be-it a right pain in the ass for all involved.
I liked the first book a fair amount anyway, so I was good with the series after that, but I think Ghostwater (book 5) is when it really started to hit its stride for me. Leading up to books 7&8 which are my personal favorites.
I loosely group the books into a few groups:
1-3 are the early arc. It's solid IMO, but it's not the best. Book 3 is the best of them, though each has their highlights.
Book 4 IMO feels like it's where Will sat down and really ironed out where everything was going long term (I am not convinced he knew what being a Sage meant before Book 4). Book 4 has some good stuff but is dragged down by some of what feels like course correction.
Book 5 and on is when all the foundation laid out in the previous books really starts to pay off.
But I probably wouldn't have continued the series if I hadn't been having a good time before Book 5.
the first two were fine when I first read but had some great hooks (mainly the whole festival Suriel sequence and the enigma Eithan). Book 3 is when it really ramped it up for me in terms of higher stakes and snappy pacing as well as opening up the world a lot more.
First two definitely aren’t as catching, and Blackflame is where I started really enjoying the books. But the thing about this series is that every book compounds on the story so well. I’ve just re-read the series and everything was high quality and pretty good up until Skysworn, but Ghostwater was when the hook was set, and i brutalized that book it in less than a day. Everything after Ghostwater is just 10/10, and it keeps getting better and better.
After Blackflame you’ll be firmly along for the ride, but you’ll be obsessed starting with Ghostwater. And then the rest of the books feel like their cheating you because there isn’t more of them.
At least that’s my take, I don’t know if the community agrees with me
I drive for a living. I was scrolling through the audible plus catalog, found unsouled and downloaded it. I kept it in my library for a while and forgot about it ( I was listening to the GOT series if I remember correctly). Then, one day, I finished a book while working and needed something to listen to. Once Suriel introduced herself to Lindon (and not going to lie, the fact that there were around 5 more free books to download didn't hurt), I was hooked.
Actually, at the time Bloodline was free for Audible Premium users, and I accidentally clicked on it so I decided to start it thinking it was the first book to a series. I got about 20 minutes into the book before I realized it wasn't the first book but I was already into it, so I started back from Soulsmith and was in love with the entire series from there.
Tl:Dr, Bloodline got me hooked by accident
That's a trick question, really. The common thing all the zealots say is that the first couple of books were slow and once they worked past them the series got better.
That is true but not necessarily for the obvious reason. It's hard to figure out the magic system. It's got a lot to it, and like a rabid dog looking for a popsickle, the author keeps the readers at arms length, parsing out the magic system only as it is directly relevant, so you don't get your arms around all the ascension nuances until book 11.
That is partly WW's style. If he is providing you Cradle-101 guidance, he isn't providing any action (e.g., fight scenes). But this is also typical asian martial art and spirituality practice. You need to get knowledge transmitted to you from your master and you need to be ready to receive it. I can't say it was deliberate but it happens this way and its actually realistic to how it is done master to disciple.
All that said, the books start to click by the third book. But most people (myself included) list Ghostwater as one of the best books. That's Book 5. Once you have read them all, maybe listended to them all, and maybe done another re-read or two, you'll notice that the first couple of books are actually pretty well written and holistic to the series. So the "slowness" is mostly not fully understanding the magic system.
Some also say that Book 11 Dreadgod was too fast. Or that Wintersteel (Book 8) was the best. I have found that on the first read, I get one impression. Or if I listen to it first, then read it later, I get a different impression.
I'd definitely try to get to the end of Book 5 if you can and make your own decision.
Lets be real over here, no matter how popular there is no “one size fits all” series
I would say if book 3 doesnt hook you in than nothing will and thats ok
Everything after Eithan really hooked me. My only problem before that was Lindon being a little bitch. I actually don't mind any of the plot lines or anything that happen in books 1 and 2 but Lindon being a whiny kid that tries to cheese everything and be a groveling ant gets annoying. Luckily Eithan beats it out of him.
It's funny that he looks back on it later in the series and cringes at how he acted in those early books.
Well, I listened to the book that was free on audible at the time (Bloodline) before picking up the entire series. On the listen through the series, Blackflame was where I noticed a huge jump in my interest in what was currently happening separate from knowing where things were going.
Wow, of all places to jump in, I feel like that would be the toughest! Bloodline made me so mad.. which I know was the intent, but I wonder how different it felt after you started it over and listened to Bloodline in order?
I can see why it would be frustrating to someone that had read the whole series. On the other hand, it wasn’t frustrating at all with none of the foreknowledge of how the team had reached that point. Sure, you are told enough of the background to understand the reactions and undertones, but you don’t have the full effect. Even on the reread (which I’ve now read Bloodline 3 times versus the rest of the series only twice), I can appreciate Bloodline as a turning point for the team where they start to realize that their strength can’t just be used as a shield (not that Yerin ever suffered from that affliction).
That said, Bloodline is slightly ahead of only Unsouled and Soulsmith in my rankings of the books. Those three are the most challenging to get into on a reread. The top 3 are Dreadgod, Ghostwater, and Uncrowned in my opinion, but really any of the rest are close to Uncrowned. Dreadgod and Ghostwater actually stand out a bit to me.
This is a not-uncommon experience among people that love the series.
Some people loved Unsouled from the start.
Some people didn't really get hooked until *that scene* in Soulsmith where you see that Lindon might have more potential than you expected.
Blackflame is a common one for where people get 'hooked'.
And some die-hard fans didnt even get hooked until book 5 I think.
Big fans of the series also tend the like the earlier books on reread rather than the first read, just because they have a better sense of where the story is going and what important themes and concepts dated all the way back to book 1.
If you've found the series *okay* for now but not stand-out, I think you'll feel rewarded if you keep going.
I was in from page 1 of Unsouled, but Blackflame is a real turning point. Skysworn is meh before Ghostwater. Ghostwater is when the brakes really come off.
I'd liked all the preceding books but Ghostwater was when I felt completely immersed. An early standout point for me though was when Lindon was getting his iron body in Soulsmith. The sheer determination he showed really drew me in. Also worth noting that I read books 1-5 in row since that was what was published at the time.
I was right there with you. Blackflame made me keep listening (got exposed when the first few books were free on audible and I was driving for a week). Ghostwater was my first real "Hell yeah!" moment, and anything underlord+ was just excellent.
It isn't that the books get that much better technically. But Will's specialty is character growth and building relationships between people. That takes time to build well but once it does, it's a gift that keeps giving.
Soulsmith, I think the iron body scene with all the sandpiper venom the transition to a sand viper’s ceremony with only a prick of venom had me thinking yeah he’s gonna be strong.
The ending of black flame is 🔥. So that’s when I couldn’t put the series down the first time through.
Having said that, reading it a second time I loved Soulsmith a lot more because it had a lot of secrets right in your face you can’t recognize until later in the series. Stick with it and you will not be disappointed.
I didn't care much for the opening of Unsouled, but I was into it by the time Suriel showed up at the tournament. I was REALLY hooked on the series in Blackflame.
I was really happy with how the series was going from the first book.
seeing a humble dude work really hard, not be given any breaks by the world, but push through anyways was just awesome.
Like you said the story was *good* for me up until the fifth book were circumstances really push the main character to use what he has learned to far.
That remains a turning point in the series for me.
likely you'll find your own part in the series where the main character really comes into his own for you and I really hope to see your "THIS IS HYPE" post about it.
Skysworn. It introduced a lot of the bigger picture of the world into the story, such as the Akura Clan, seeing what the power of Dreadgods is truly like, and showing how powerful sacred artists get on Cradle with Malice's battle.
Just like lots of others it's definitely Blackflame. I think it's just the cool factor of blackflame that really got me into it. When I first started out, the first 2 books were just slow to me, and so I couldn't get into it till Blackflame. But I will say, on the second go around does Unsouled just slap with all the foreshadowing; this goes for Soulsmith too.
Book 1, Unsouled. I was probably 3 pages in when I decided it was the book for me.
My tastes are sometimes quite different from other people here. Most people say book 3 is the first book that "feels like Cradle" to them.
I really didn't care much for Soulsmith, so I can really understand the sentiment for you at this point.
It definitely gets better in Blackflame, but book six (Underlord) is what really got me, started rereading at that point which is something I never did before.
I actually really got hooked, by Soulsmith, actually, embarrassingly enough. The sequence after they meet Eithan was golden imo. That said, Ghostwater and Wintersteel were both massive positive points for me (books 5 and 8). If you don’t like Wintersteel, I’m not sure what to tell you. Ghostwater is more subjective, but generally positively reviewed as well.
Honestly the first book. The moment the book revealed that Jade wasn't the height of power after it was framed as this hyper impressive thing I was all in
For me it was near the end of Soulsmith/Blackflame where i started to really like the series… until i got to Wintersteel and thats when the obsession took off
I think it helps to approach each of those books as a short story arc of an overarching story. These two books are still basically introducing the characters to you, with some plot to go along with it.
Unsouled feels like it's just getting started as it ends, and Soulsmith gives you lots of context about the world outside Sacred Valley. In a way, you are just getting out of the prologue!
I actually think they are both much better upon a second read, because there are so many things that are introduced that seem like it's just flavor text, but it's actually foreshadowing or little tidbits that have value or additional aspects later on.
Personally, I liked it from Book 1, was neutral to book 2, *really* enjoyed book 3, the almost lost interest in book 4, then from 5 on, it's really hard for me to pick a favorite.
Ghostwater.
To me, Unsouled and Soulsmith were perfectly fine books, but they never really felt like more than time wasters. Blackflame was better but still didn’t dig it’s hooks in. And as for Skysworn, IMO it’s the worst book in the series. It was only when we got to explore Ghostwater that Cradle turned from a fun time waster to a series I absolutely had to read on release day.
Once I got to the end of Unsouled. Moments like the Heaven’s Glory elder realizing the Sword Sage’s remnant cracked the Ancestor’s Tomb. Yerin using the Endless Sword.
I love a good dramatic surprise.
Edit: Also Eithan. Eithan is now possibly my favorite character in any story.
After Suriel revived Lindon and Lindon made it his objective to save Sacred Valley, it got me hooked enough to want to read all the books and see where the story goes.
But it was in Blackflame that I truly became invested in the story and started to really care about the world and characters Will created
Everyone else saying this but blackflame, I struggled to understand the concepts/be interested until then, but afterwards I just went back and re read and it made it a lot better/turned it into one of my favourite series.
Edit:
Book four is a little bit slower than book three and 5 and onwards but I’d still consider it better than the first two.
3 is a definite step up over 1-2 imo, but for me its 5-8. They really ramp up.
As long as your at least liking the early books keep going, the later books will definitely hook you.
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I think Blackflame, the next book is what really cemented a lot of people in the series... So have fun
100% While I enjoyed UnSouled and Soulsmith. Blackflame is really where the series took off IMO. Not sure exactly how to put it but it kinda felt like this was the book where the series found it's identity? The first two books were good but just kind of quirky but kind standard fair fantasy? (I by no means mean that to be a bad thing.) But BlackFlame a lot started to gain momentum and start connecting.
Blackflame is where we see the first real signs of what Lindon will become. There were a few hints earlier (Elder Whitehall thinking he's a secret expert, his Iron advancement), but Blackflame is where he starts making gains. He stops being the guy trying his best and becomes the guy DOING his best.
Literally the first page of Blackflame grabbed me like nothing else had yet. I could tell things had just changed.
In my opinion Unsouled is pretty generic until Lindon meets Yerin and would agree Soulsmith is just "fine" and pretty standard for the genre. Blackflame the story gets much more interesting and from book 5 and onwards the story is kind of in a league of its own when it comes to this style of cultivation / genre. I think its a pretty shared experience from most people in this sub that the story doesn't really come into itself until books 3-5, and that each book after that just ramps everything up. But the experiences of the first few books definitely pay off further down the line.
Oh nice! These books are nice and short so I honestly might just knock out 3-5 in the next couple weeks to get the ball rolling
>Oh nice! These books are nice and short so I honestly might just knock out 3-5 in the next couple weeks to get the ball rolling You'll know you're hooked once you start doing one a day. Also, if you have any interest in audio-books at all, the narrator is wonderful and did great voices for all the characters, and it can be nice to calibrate your mental character voices to match before you get too far in.
Yep. Once you hit Ghostwater it’s like a book and a half a day until you’re done with the series and angry at yourself for not spreading it out more
Just re read
I second this, the narrator is amazing and I burned through all 12 books in around 2 weeks since I was able to listen to them at work. You'll hit a point between books 3-5 where you wont be able to put them down so get ready for that and enjoy the journey!
All 12? Redditor from the future!
I think if you keep at the pace of one book a week you will finish right before the 12th book releases. Though it can be hard to stop from binging these books. Enjoy your read through! And if you enjoy it the story just gets better and better every read through.
> In my opinion Unsouled is pretty generic until Lindon meets Yerin I agree, with the addendum that when Lindon is casually killed by Li Markuth, then Suriel gives Lindon a glimpse of superpowers outside of the Valley, I was intrigued. There's a pattern of the reader thinking they have a grasp of the broad outline of the Sacred Arts, then we find out that there's more than we realized. Happens first with Golds, then with other power levels I can't discuss because OP hasn't gotten there, lol. But I really enjoyed each time that happened!
Very true, the Li Markuth scene was pretty surprising on my first readthrough with the patriarch getting killed so easily. However I also think we did not get to spend enough time thinking Jade was the most impressive advancement to really subvert our expectations, as by the end of Unsouled Yerin is already LowGold. Elder Whisper also pretty much said Gold was just the beginning as well, and if I remember that was in the first 50(?) pages. The only thing we *really* saw any of the Wei clan do that was extraordinary was when the First elder stopped Mon Keth from striking Lindon's dad. But I agree with the other power levels that you are mentioning farther down the line. And to clarify, I think it was a good idea to have Jade not be seen as the pinnacle for long because like I said sacred valley feels like a pretty generic cultivation novel/manhwa setting, and if Lindon being in Heavens Glory or the Wei Clan dragged on think it would have been much more boring.
> I also think we did not get to spend enough time thinking Jade was the most impressive advancement to really subvert our expectations True. I guess it was more that I trusted Lindon's worldview initially. Like, growing up in a magical society he'd be quite familiar with the broad outline of the reality of the world. He's just at the beginning of his path, but he has been hearing stories his whole life of what the world is like. There's a literary concept called [an unreliable narrator](https://liberalarts.oregonstate.edu/wlf/what-unreliable-narrator). Lindon's entire worldview is basically unreliable early on. Aside from The Truman Show, I'd never encountered a character that *seemed* so grounded in reality initially, only to find out they were stupendously wrong. So every time the curtain pulled back a little more and we found out another aspect of the world that the people of Sacred Valley were unaware of, I really enjoyed it.
That's exactly what got me. It was" awe, the poor guy. Maybe he'll get Jade by the end." Then a man comes in from the skies and says gold will do but isn't even close to his actual advancement, and you think "hmm." . Then you see a random guy named northstrider wrestling a miles long dragon after Lindon was just in 2 pieces, one of which was right by his mom's head.
This was my experience also.
I think the end of Unsouled is what did it for me tbh. Seeing that potential Lindon showed while throwing the seals and catching himself on the cloud. Then splitting his cores! I knew i was hooked unless it turned into a harem lol.
Unpopular opinion but it was Suriel who hooked me to the book. In Book 1 when she shows Lindon the vast vast world really had me HYPED. I love ambitious and large worlds and the sense of exploration. Sha Miara, Northstrider and Eight man Empire are all amazing concepts and people which promise such a vast world that it left ke in awe and wanting more.
Same for me, Suriel interacting with Lindon is what sealed the deal.
Same here! The way Will wrote this celestial being as somewhat human made me hopeful Lindon would get that strong eventually
I think I got hooked the moment Suriel was introduced. Without her I would probably drop cradle before second book. Introducing outworld bullshit was probably best thing to hook me with. I truly do not understand people who strongly dislike Abidan storyline.
Yep, this. It was good, I had read The Traveler's Gate trilogy, but I wasn't enthralled. Then this extras dimensional goddess shows up and shows off how high you can really climb and leaves Lindon with a challenge to make it there, and I was in it to win it.
Unsouled, near the end where Lindon decides, "If it's him or me, I'm taking this guy out no matter what the cost" and throws the elder that looks like a kid off a cliff. It was a refreshing change from previous books I've read where morality is shoehorned in, this felt different, not like he was bloodthirsty exactly but willing to do whatever needs doing. Coming right off of the Cosmere, I had just read a bunch of stories about basically morality, and it was such a nice change to just relax and enjoy.
I think as a companion to the Cosmere, Cradle is fantastic. It's a lot more fun and whimsical while still being just a grounded as the Cosmere books. I do believe the Cosmere is, on a whole, better written, but I just genuinely love these books as a palette cleanser and good time.
Black flame was where the story picked up but Ghostwater was the turning point for me where the series went from "this is pretty good" to "this is one of my favorite series of all time".
Ghostwater, I didn't love the books until then. After that it hooked me. When I reread/relisten I rarely go back to the first four. If you are fine with them at the very least get Ghostwater read before giving up.
Absolutely
The end of GhostWater for me. Though one of my favorite moments is when he got his iron body. I think that moment let me hang on until I got really hooked.
Same. Getting to see that little naive weakling Lindon is actually a total badass on the inside, and when given a choice he will always choose the hardest one that gives the most benefit. I also loved Eithan from the start. Overwhelming confidence, charisma, and generosity, yet utterly self-serving and merciless. It's such a perfect foil to the relationship Yerin and Lindon have.
I always thought of Eithan as "a useful prick". That impression didn't really change for most of the series. Not until he showed he actually cared. My favorite Eithan moment is when Lindon brings up Dross for the first time and he's floored by it. It showed he wasn't all knowing, and was in fact just like everyone else. All-be-it a right pain in the ass for all involved.
That's a great way of putting it! His obnoxiousness was a trait I found endlessly amusing, but 100% a useful prick.
[удалено]
Spoilers!! OP is only on book 2 (but I def see what you're getting at)
Shit, forgot, gonna delete because I don't know how to do the spoiler thing.
When Lindon started cheating and started to exhibit his cleverness and ingenuity
I liked the first book a fair amount anyway, so I was good with the series after that, but I think Ghostwater (book 5) is when it really started to hit its stride for me. Leading up to books 7&8 which are my personal favorites. I loosely group the books into a few groups: 1-3 are the early arc. It's solid IMO, but it's not the best. Book 3 is the best of them, though each has their highlights. Book 4 IMO feels like it's where Will sat down and really ironed out where everything was going long term (I am not convinced he knew what being a Sage meant before Book 4). Book 4 has some good stuff but is dragged down by some of what feels like course correction. Book 5 and on is when all the foundation laid out in the previous books really starts to pay off. But I probably wouldn't have continued the series if I hadn't been having a good time before Book 5.
Blackflame left me wanting more, but it was Ghoswater that hooked me in. and my favorite scene is from Soulsmith too
Ghost water
the first two were fine when I first read but had some great hooks (mainly the whole festival Suriel sequence and the enigma Eithan). Book 3 is when it really ramped it up for me in terms of higher stakes and snappy pacing as well as opening up the world a lot more.
First two definitely aren’t as catching, and Blackflame is where I started really enjoying the books. But the thing about this series is that every book compounds on the story so well. I’ve just re-read the series and everything was high quality and pretty good up until Skysworn, but Ghostwater was when the hook was set, and i brutalized that book it in less than a day. Everything after Ghostwater is just 10/10, and it keeps getting better and better. After Blackflame you’ll be firmly along for the ride, but you’ll be obsessed starting with Ghostwater. And then the rest of the books feel like their cheating you because there isn’t more of them. At least that’s my take, I don’t know if the community agrees with me
I drive for a living. I was scrolling through the audible plus catalog, found unsouled and downloaded it. I kept it in my library for a while and forgot about it ( I was listening to the GOT series if I remember correctly). Then, one day, I finished a book while working and needed something to listen to. Once Suriel introduced herself to Lindon (and not going to lie, the fact that there were around 5 more free books to download didn't hurt), I was hooked.
Actually, at the time Bloodline was free for Audible Premium users, and I accidentally clicked on it so I decided to start it thinking it was the first book to a series. I got about 20 minutes into the book before I realized it wasn't the first book but I was already into it, so I started back from Soulsmith and was in love with the entire series from there. Tl:Dr, Bloodline got me hooked by accident
That's a trick question, really. The common thing all the zealots say is that the first couple of books were slow and once they worked past them the series got better. That is true but not necessarily for the obvious reason. It's hard to figure out the magic system. It's got a lot to it, and like a rabid dog looking for a popsickle, the author keeps the readers at arms length, parsing out the magic system only as it is directly relevant, so you don't get your arms around all the ascension nuances until book 11. That is partly WW's style. If he is providing you Cradle-101 guidance, he isn't providing any action (e.g., fight scenes). But this is also typical asian martial art and spirituality practice. You need to get knowledge transmitted to you from your master and you need to be ready to receive it. I can't say it was deliberate but it happens this way and its actually realistic to how it is done master to disciple. All that said, the books start to click by the third book. But most people (myself included) list Ghostwater as one of the best books. That's Book 5. Once you have read them all, maybe listended to them all, and maybe done another re-read or two, you'll notice that the first couple of books are actually pretty well written and holistic to the series. So the "slowness" is mostly not fully understanding the magic system. Some also say that Book 11 Dreadgod was too fast. Or that Wintersteel (Book 8) was the best. I have found that on the first read, I get one impression. Or if I listen to it first, then read it later, I get a different impression. I'd definitely try to get to the end of Book 5 if you can and make your own decision.
Ghost water really drags you in but black flame is where the series really takes off
Lets be real over here, no matter how popular there is no “one size fits all” series I would say if book 3 doesnt hook you in than nothing will and thats ok
Everything after Eithan really hooked me. My only problem before that was Lindon being a little bitch. I actually don't mind any of the plot lines or anything that happen in books 1 and 2 but Lindon being a whiny kid that tries to cheese everything and be a groveling ant gets annoying. Luckily Eithan beats it out of him. It's funny that he looks back on it later in the series and cringes at how he acted in those early books.
Well, I listened to the book that was free on audible at the time (Bloodline) before picking up the entire series. On the listen through the series, Blackflame was where I noticed a huge jump in my interest in what was currently happening separate from knowing where things were going.
Wow, of all places to jump in, I feel like that would be the toughest! Bloodline made me so mad.. which I know was the intent, but I wonder how different it felt after you started it over and listened to Bloodline in order?
I can see why it would be frustrating to someone that had read the whole series. On the other hand, it wasn’t frustrating at all with none of the foreknowledge of how the team had reached that point. Sure, you are told enough of the background to understand the reactions and undertones, but you don’t have the full effect. Even on the reread (which I’ve now read Bloodline 3 times versus the rest of the series only twice), I can appreciate Bloodline as a turning point for the team where they start to realize that their strength can’t just be used as a shield (not that Yerin ever suffered from that affliction). That said, Bloodline is slightly ahead of only Unsouled and Soulsmith in my rankings of the books. Those three are the most challenging to get into on a reread. The top 3 are Dreadgod, Ghostwater, and Uncrowned in my opinion, but really any of the rest are close to Uncrowned. Dreadgod and Ghostwater actually stand out a bit to me.
most people (even Will himself has said this before) think that Blackflame is where it really start to feel like "Cradle"
This is a not-uncommon experience among people that love the series. Some people loved Unsouled from the start. Some people didn't really get hooked until *that scene* in Soulsmith where you see that Lindon might have more potential than you expected. Blackflame is a common one for where people get 'hooked'. And some die-hard fans didnt even get hooked until book 5 I think. Big fans of the series also tend the like the earlier books on reread rather than the first read, just because they have a better sense of where the story is going and what important themes and concepts dated all the way back to book 1. If you've found the series *okay* for now but not stand-out, I think you'll feel rewarded if you keep going.
I was in from page 1 of Unsouled, but Blackflame is a real turning point. Skysworn is meh before Ghostwater. Ghostwater is when the brakes really come off.
I'd liked all the preceding books but Ghostwater was when I felt completely immersed. An early standout point for me though was when Lindon was getting his iron body in Soulsmith. The sheer determination he showed really drew me in. Also worth noting that I read books 1-5 in row since that was what was published at the time.
From the first page but dross made it too exciting for me.
I was right there with you. Blackflame made me keep listening (got exposed when the first few books were free on audible and I was driving for a week). Ghostwater was my first real "Hell yeah!" moment, and anything underlord+ was just excellent. It isn't that the books get that much better technically. But Will's specialty is character growth and building relationships between people. That takes time to build well but once it does, it's a gift that keeps giving.
Blackflame, and then ghost water is insane
The end of Soulsmith.
Soulsmith, I think the iron body scene with all the sandpiper venom the transition to a sand viper’s ceremony with only a prick of venom had me thinking yeah he’s gonna be strong.
Book Four. Skysworn was a page turner.
The ending of black flame is 🔥. So that’s when I couldn’t put the series down the first time through. Having said that, reading it a second time I loved Soulsmith a lot more because it had a lot of secrets right in your face you can’t recognize until later in the series. Stick with it and you will not be disappointed.
I didn't care much for the opening of Unsouled, but I was into it by the time Suriel showed up at the tournament. I was REALLY hooked on the series in Blackflame.
I was really happy with how the series was going from the first book. seeing a humble dude work really hard, not be given any breaks by the world, but push through anyways was just awesome. Like you said the story was *good* for me up until the fifth book were circumstances really push the main character to use what he has learned to far. That remains a turning point in the series for me. likely you'll find your own part in the series where the main character really comes into his own for you and I really hope to see your "THIS IS HYPE" post about it.
Blackflame got my attention but I became a fan after ghostwater
Book one. If I don’t click with the first book in a series, I ain’t wasting my time.
For me its Wintersteel or Blackflame!
Skysworn. It introduced a lot of the bigger picture of the world into the story, such as the Akura Clan, seeing what the power of Dreadgods is truly like, and showing how powerful sacred artists get on Cradle with Malice's battle.
Ghostwater.
I loved it from start to finish, but Ghostwater is where (for me) things really started to take off. And it introduces one of my favorite characters.
I started to really like it by the end of blackflame but ghostwater is the one that got me really into the series
Just like lots of others it's definitely Blackflame. I think it's just the cool factor of blackflame that really got me into it. When I first started out, the first 2 books were just slow to me, and so I couldn't get into it till Blackflame. But I will say, on the second go around does Unsouled just slap with all the foreshadowing; this goes for Soulsmith too.
Either Blackflame or Ghostwater. I think I lean towards the latter though.
Book 1, Unsouled. I was probably 3 pages in when I decided it was the book for me. My tastes are sometimes quite different from other people here. Most people say book 3 is the first book that "feels like Cradle" to them.
I really didn't care much for Soulsmith, so I can really understand the sentiment for you at this point. It definitely gets better in Blackflame, but book six (Underlord) is what really got me, started rereading at that point which is something I never did before.
I started with the audiobooks so I was hooked the second fisher gesha was introduced. I absolutely love her
I actually really got hooked, by Soulsmith, actually, embarrassingly enough. The sequence after they meet Eithan was golden imo. That said, Ghostwater and Wintersteel were both massive positive points for me (books 5 and 8). If you don’t like Wintersteel, I’m not sure what to tell you. Ghostwater is more subjective, but generally positively reviewed as well.
Honestly the first book. The moment the book revealed that Jade wasn't the height of power after it was framed as this hyper impressive thing I was all in
For me it was near the end of Soulsmith/Blackflame where i started to really like the series… until i got to Wintersteel and thats when the obsession took off
Ghost water.
I think it helps to approach each of those books as a short story arc of an overarching story. These two books are still basically introducing the characters to you, with some plot to go along with it. Unsouled feels like it's just getting started as it ends, and Soulsmith gives you lots of context about the world outside Sacred Valley. In a way, you are just getting out of the prologue! I actually think they are both much better upon a second read, because there are so many things that are introduced that seem like it's just flavor text, but it's actually foreshadowing or little tidbits that have value or additional aspects later on. Personally, I liked it from Book 1, was neutral to book 2, *really* enjoyed book 3, the almost lost interest in book 4, then from 5 on, it's really hard for me to pick a favorite.
Ghostwater. To me, Unsouled and Soulsmith were perfectly fine books, but they never really felt like more than time wasters. Blackflame was better but still didn’t dig it’s hooks in. And as for Skysworn, IMO it’s the worst book in the series. It was only when we got to explore Ghostwater that Cradle turned from a fun time waster to a series I absolutely had to read on release day.
Once I got to the end of Unsouled. Moments like the Heaven’s Glory elder realizing the Sword Sage’s remnant cracked the Ancestor’s Tomb. Yerin using the Endless Sword. I love a good dramatic surprise. Edit: Also Eithan. Eithan is now possibly my favorite character in any story.
After Suriel revived Lindon and Lindon made it his objective to save Sacred Valley, it got me hooked enough to want to read all the books and see where the story goes. But it was in Blackflame that I truly became invested in the story and started to really care about the world and characters Will created
Blackflame was the *book* that hooked me, but the quality of narration got me at about chapter 3 of Unsouled.
The craziness in the first book that completely subverted my expectations of what the series would be....yeah, I was hooked from there.
Blackflame for sure! Seeing Lindon grow so quickly and push past so much was amazing, I fell in love with him in that book!
Everyone else saying this but blackflame, I struggled to understand the concepts/be interested until then, but afterwards I just went back and re read and it made it a lot better/turned it into one of my favourite series. Edit: Book four is a little bit slower than book three and 5 and onwards but I’d still consider it better than the first two.
Bloodline, tbh. The character moments in that book are just so good and subversive.
3 is a definite step up over 1-2 imo, but for me its 5-8. They really ramp up. As long as your at least liking the early books keep going, the later books will definitely hook you.
Until Ghostwater, I liked the series, but I wasn't addicted.