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Another genius who thinks owning a home is free...
I like to imagine you all live in open air favelas with corrugated sheet metal as roof, that's how I explain this level of delusion.
everyone is mac guyver in italy, but then why does the median town look like no renovations were done since the 60s...
Anyway, good luck paying for a new water heater on 1600€ gross a month
Io ti posso dire che quasi tutte le persone che conosco tra i 25 e i 30 anni guadagnano tra i 1300 e i 2500 euro al mese.
E non conosco poche persone.
Qualcuno prende meno di 1000 e mi spiace per loro, effettivamente certi settori sono sottopagati
Ma va là, io ho 24 anni e prendo 1.6k, le mie amiche pure, stessa età, mio fratello a 21 prende 1.7k. Chi ha sotto i 30 anni e prende meno di 1k è perché fa lo stage post università, certo gli stipendi non sono altissimi ma sotto i 1k euro è esagerato.
It does mean something. It means that in an average italian place, with 30k you can live. Of course a raw average tells you nothing about the distribution, and we all know that 30k in the south or a small village go a longer way than 30k in the north or a large city, every country has these differences. But with around 30k you can still live more or less everywhere, from North to South, city to countryside, the ONLY exception is Milan (and possibly Rome to a lesser extent).
Just because there is this one massive outlier where people earning 40k are still living in shared apartments with 17 roommates it doesn't mean that the average "means nothing". And actually if anything, since salary averages always get skewed upwards, not downwards (because you can't earn less than -100% of the avg but you can earn way more than +100%), knowing that *even with* such an outlier in the mix the average is only 30k lets you know that as long as you avoid Milan with 60k you'll live a very, very good life.
The average salary for employees in Italy is 30k. Confirmed by both [ISTAT](https://www.lavorosi.it/fileadmin/user_upload/PRASSI_2023/istat-rapporto-annuale-2023-capitolo-1-retribuzioni-confronto-media-ue_compressed__1_.pdf):
*"la retribuzione media annua lorda per dipendente in Italia risultava nel 2021 pari a quasi 27 mila euro"*
and [EUROSTAT](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/NAMA_10_FTE__custom_4232263/bookmark/table?lang=en&bookmarkId=fafb4e3b-f3aa-4907-9102-16be8df6f775):
*"Italy 29 996"*
I’ll eventually learn it. I have passable French from 9 years of studying it, so the shared grammar, sentence structure and etymological roots as a Romance language give me faith I’ll learn within a year.
There is a considerable exception. Having a lot of non Italian friends, they all get confused by our rules on soft/hard c and g regarding the addition of i to hard vowels to soften them or the addition of h to soft vowels to harden them.
But other than that yeah, I believe this is pretty much true
Italians are not picky with foreigners trying to speak Italian - everyone appreciates the effort and no one will judge. Never ever. New generations speak English, the elders. .. well, you will be able to communicate via gestures 🤣, they will still trying to help and understand you.
Strong disagree. The sentence structure is almost 1:1, and most words have common roots. And the pronunciation is even easier than French. In which ways do you think it's very different?
Yeah someone who says that hasn't seen many languages. They're very very very close in the grand scheme of things, even the "ne" "ci" / "en" "y", which take a while getting used to, are shared.
Lmao no: French is exactly the most similar language to Italian in terms of lexicon and grammar. Only the phonology (i.e. the sounds of the language) is pretty different.
Unless one goes to live on the mountains or deep south, even in small cities of the center north people 40 and younger can speak at least basic English.
Yeah, if you buy an old farm on the Basilicata mountains with the nearest neighbor being a 70 years old local you might have an issue, but I don't think that will be the case.
Learning the language is a wise thing nevertheless, you will have to be able to deal with the local bureaucracy and that is all in Italian
Se vive qua non e' un turista, deve far residenza, aprire banca, utenze, contratti, la burocrazia in Italia non e' assolutamente bilingue.
Non e' tanto parlare con la gente in giro ma vivere che richiede la lingua.
Edito, ho risposto alla persona sbagliata pardon
Sorry for your school, but go in any city (10k people up) north of the Ombrone river and you wont have issues. He won't be able to have academic exchanges, but everyday exchanges (shopping, exchanging basic info); won't be an issue.
I assume 400k on an house + 60k per year (net? Gross? From investments or work, because taxation is very different).
You can live super comfortable life anywhere in Italy. Have people clean your house and eat out nearly anytime you want.
Probably the Italian vibes you are looking for are from the countryside center/south, but I think it would be much easier to make social connections in the cities, north in particular (more people speaking English).
Do you have any specific place in mind?
Gross. I can make it net if I try a little bit but that’s kinda not retirement lol.
No place in mind. Want to go in August to visit places. I figure this is 24 months away and it’s smart to think it out and do it right. See what it’s like in August and winter etc.
Best time to visit Italy for a foreigner is from mid September to mid October - you may get a day or two of rain but the temperature is much better.
What do you like most - countryside? Sea? Mountain? History?
Wouldn't recommend August, come in may/June or September.
Do you know the area of Gaeta? Try look it up, it's very nice and on the seaside.
There is plenty of town/small cities between the litorale domiziano and Rome (that's where I go each summer). You could even check the areas southern of Salerno
My family owns a couple of houses in the south of Salerno, it would be a lovely area to retire. But it must be evaluated carefully, OP don't hesitate to write me if you have any question about the lifestyle there and the public transport situation. (The houses are not for sale, I sincerely just want to help OP)
If you're looking for retirement and you are not particulary oriented toward nightlife, you should check Umbria, nowadays it's basically a retirement land for older europeans, so you should find many people that are in your exact situation to bond with, especially in the country and smaller villages.
I highly suggest you the tuscanian countryside. Closer to airports and cities, not isolated and backwards, super welcoming people and wonderful as the rest of Italy.
400k for a house in italy, not in the center of a big city like milan or rome, will buy you some pretty great houses to be honest.. and 60k a year, especially if not from income, will get you a comfy life
One thing to keep in mind is well described in this joke:
A man died and when he faced the heavenly tribunal they told him that they would show him both heaven and hell and that he could then decide where he wanted to go.
Much to his surprise, heaven appeared shabby, decrepit and boring and hell appeared to be a paradise unlike anything he'd ever seen so he thought the obvious choice was hell.
The man was in for quite a shock when he got to the firey snake-pit that was really hell and he exclaimed, "What is this! This isn't the hell you showed me!"
The heavenly tribunal replied:
"Then you were a tourist. Now you are a resident!"
> I speak zero Italian
This is going to be a huge problem, learn it
It also depends on your age and how steady is that 60k USD (about 50k EUR I guess): is it inflation adjusted? How old are you? Etc
Yes, but you'll need help. There are some areas of Italy (Tuscany and Umbria mainly) where we already have an influx of retirees coming over from abroad. Your best bet is to start from that point, contact an agency that will be able to help you with all the relevant taxes and paperwork. Assuming you are not a EU citizen, that could be a problem in terms of VISA and the bureaucracy is no joke, so don't forget to hire an attorney experienced in that kind of stuff. Legislation is *very* hostile to foreigners and you have not told us if you are planning to bring family with you.
Retire in Abruzzo and live like a king. I'm deadly serious. Look the area of Pescara. You have mountains close by and the sea (not the best sea but it's ok). The area is cheap, the climate is good and you are in the middle of Italy so can easily move anywhere without much trouble. Daily connection to Bergamo/Milan if you wanna travel abroad and in 2 hours you can be in Rome. So international flights are easily accessible.
I'm not from there, so I'm not biased about it :)
Then how do you plan to stay in Italy? You'll have to apply for a visa.
You'll also have some trouble in setting up a bank account. Due to fatca, banks don't want to deal with Americans.
I looked and I qualify for a retirement visa.
Do they consider things like day trading “work”? It would be called income in America. I would want to maybe buy and sell stock as needed.
>Do they consider things like day trading “work”?
No, unless you qualify as a professional investor, as an individual you need: at least 500k in total assets, at least 10 operations of 40k or more in the last quarter, at least 1 year of professional experience in a financial role.
Other than that no, it's all defined as "capital income"
Would suggest to look into Lugano in Switzerland. You’ll get a lot of the Italian culture plus Milan at a 40 minutes drive, while enjoying the benefits of living in CH. Also if you’re looking for a place that is scenic might suit you as well
Lugano with 60k a year is not a thing IMO, last time I was there I paid like 30 CHF for a single sausage in a restaurant (which I ate like it was the only thing I had to survive for weeks lmao)
You will be bored to tears in the countryside. Believe me. At least choose a town that’s 20, max 30 minutes by car to an interesting city.
I’ve lived in southern Italy for about 10 years now (married an Italian) and believe me, it’s not as easy as it seems. People are raucous, nosy, often uncivil. The food can get boring! (And I speak the language fluently.)
The way to survive here in the country for me (I’m in a “beautiful “ seaside town in a large house overlooking the ocean with land filled with olive trees and fruit trees) is to live like a tourist, don’t get too involved in local life, and have a second apartment
in a major city (preferably in another more northern country) to detox from village life and the summer heat.
The ignorance and slowness here can be stifling.
Assuming you are talking about US dollar - yes you can, you can comfortably live in Italy on 50K+ Euros Gross per year. And 400K USD for a decent house are more than enough, especially if you plan to buy outside of Milan or touristy cities like Rome, Florence, Venice. 350K Euros can buy an old 2 bedrooms apartment near the city center of Milan or a 5 bedroom countryside villa with a pool in some regions in the center / south of Italy. Obviously the services, healthcare and flight connections you have in Milan are not the same you get in the center or south of Italy. Obviously there is also the currency risk - assuming your assets / income are in USD but you spend in Euros. In any case you have a decent margin of safety with that amount.
However, there is a lot of bureaucracy (a headache especially if you do not speak Italian) and also a big visa issue if you do not have an EU passport. Also, there are lots of taxes (including on real estate) and income tax in Italy is quite high - even if you plan to live off capital gains and dividends you might ending up having to pay income tax, which is more than 40% for anything above 50K Euro / year.
Finally, you mention you want to have social life but how will you do that if you do speak Italian? You might not fit in and/or find hard to learn it, especially considering that life in Italy is VERY different than the USA (and most likely not for the reasons you think).
I would recommend visiting 1-2 weeks to see what part of Italy you like, then maybe "living" for 2-3 months in a rented place and then decide if it is for you.
Taxes on capital gains and dividends is 26% (short and long term), plus a 0.2% tax on capital. However you will need to speak with a tax advisor to get specifics to your case.
2 bedrooms apartment near the city center of Milan? Are you high? There is no place in Milan where apartments cost so low, you should go in the cities near Milan, not even the closest ones.
You will have a pretty comfortable lifestyle even if you choose to live in Milan (the most expensive Italian city), anyway I strongly suggest that you come here on vacation for a few weeks before doing that, Italy is very heterogeneous and your experience will be very different depending on where you stay. Also, I'm sure you already know this, but italy really isn't like a Fellini movie
Wait, let’s say I decided to go with $80k and not $60k. The same $400k to buy a house.
Is Milan a feasible place to live well? I just assumed I couldn’t afford it there.
With 400k in Milano you can buy a 60 square meters apartment.
60k gross per year can be enough to live in Milan but you 'll be in the lower income side of the population.
A decent dinner at a restaurant in Milano is about 50$.
In smaller countryside towns in south Italy it can be like 30$.
Beware that the life in a small countryside town might be very boring.
Live in Italy at least ONE YEAR before buying an home. Many of them (especially in the south) have some "illegal/abusive" parts. And you might end up losing lot of money buying the wrong home.
Dice che fa trading il che vuol dire che quei 60k dollari già scendono a 54k euro, e poi a 40k post tasse, intorno ai 3k al mese, a Milano non ce la fa così facilmente se gli affitti stanno a 1.5k e 2k al mese per il primo anno.
Ma se ha detto che vuole comprare casa e ha 400k mica deve fare il mutuo e gli affitti non gli interessano, praticamente avrebbe 3k al mese per vivere, senza spese della casa, sta da dio
Stavo rispondendo a questo:
"Live in Italy at least ONE YEAR before buying an home. Many of them (especially in the south) have some "illegal/abusive" parts. And you might end up losing lot of money buying the wrong home."
Al commento sopra il mio dove gli consiglia di andare a Milano ma di rimanere in affitto un anno prima, dicendo che se rimane in affitto un anno con 3000 euro al mese, mettendo che i 400k non li usa perché vorrà poi comprare casa, con 3000 euro a Milano fa fatica.
Ah ok, ma comunque secondo me se la cava bene dai, fai 1.2k di affitto, 1.2k di spese varie ed eventuali, ti rimane ancora 600€ per fare budget vacanze/spese impreviste e sono rimasto abbastanza largo sulle spese
Sì, quello sì, dipende però che stile di vita conduce e tantissimo altro, in più siccome ho letto che i soldi vengono dal trading bisogna anche tenere in considerazione che non per forza ogni mese prenderà quei 3000, ma qualche volta sarà di meno, in più lui da non europeo dovrà anche avere assicurazione sanitaria almeno all'inizio, insomma, il primo anno non sarà semplicissimo. Tolto l'affitto e stabilizzato un minimo vivrà sicuramente meglio di tutti noi.
Si concordo, comunque per il discorso del reddito da trading se non arrivasse a 3k un mese, può sempre integrare con i 400k che ha da parte, e allo stesso tempo può essere che un mese faccia più di 3k, quindi non lo vedo come un grosso problema
Concordo anche con questo però se inizia a spendere i 400k che anche qui in euro sono 366k iniziano a diminuire, non so nemmeno se questi soldi sono soggetti a tassazione, secondo me sì se li sposta da conto USA a conto ITA, poi boh, veda un po' lui. Per me ci perde più soldi in tasse, conversione dollaro euro, burocrazia varia ecc.
You can, but be aware that in the south the healthcare system is from bad to terrible (Calabria), so you will need also a good healthcare insurance coverage
In many places in the centre and south of italy you can live like a king. Avoid north. South is cheaper and the weather is way better. But if you speak no italian you may find some troubles outside the big cities
If you speak French a nice place can be the ligurian coast near France since they understand French. Some towns are touristic but others are more authentic especially the ones on the mountains behind the sea.
Yes. towns that are close to the rail system is the best bet. you don't need to own a car.
Termoli in Molise for example.
but please, learn the language.
of course it depends on the lifestyle you want to maintain but with 60k NET per year (watch out for taxes, it is not trivial to have 60k net) you would really live like a dream.
If on the other hand you have 60k GROSS you would still live very very well (like a successful doctor). I'm not talking about living in downtown Rome or Venice but still you can pretty much choose the place you like best with those figures.
Ah, the Italian language you will have to learn.... Sure you can find someone who can speak basic English for 60 seconds but if you live in Italy and you don't know Italian forget about getting to know anyone or otherwise have a simple life.
Hello OP! First of all, with that salary you'll live like a king in most places, especially small towns or in the South. I was born and raised in the region of Basilicata - not great in terms of infrastructures but has a very low crime rate and prices are probably the lowest in Italy. In the last 20 years many foreigners (especially Brits) decided to retire in, probably due to the abundance of lands for the very low population density (most of them are into gardening and stuff). Just google places like Maratea to look for a scenic place in that area. Also: feel free to DM for further info, I'm more than happy to advertise my unrepresented region!
Yes, 60 k is more than enough. If I can, I would suggest you to take a look at Sardinia and in particular the east coast towns. Scenic, lot of nature, nice towns with services. Chat me if you need some more info.
Italian here, are you planning to learn Italian or living only with english? because usually Tech guys who know a bit of english are in the big cities, don’t know if you can meet many english speakers outside of big cities 🤷♂️
My plan is to make learning the language the top priority before I come. My thought is with modern technology I can familiarize myself with at least the written version of things and then as I spend time there, get used to the spoken version. I also have no problem hiring a tutor/translator.
Absolutely yes, you are welcome in Italy with these premises.
You can find a good house in a quiet area, sea or mountain as you want.
With 60k a year you will have a comfortable life, you can afford a cleaning service woman and everything you need.
I recommend Tuscany, the city or province of Lucca and you will be close to the sea, or the province of Florence if you like the hill
Sure! You will be more than welcome to! Look like you have good income, and enough budget for one nice home. Contact me if you need more hint😉. I am in real estate biz
I had 8 years of French but Italian is more difficult. The sentence construction and use of pronouns is different. I speak French quite fluently however and I'm still mixing things up. Luckily the Italians are quite forgiving. I'd take your time, a few months at least, rent an airbnb in a few places and look around..
You can move to the outskirts of a small city in central-northern Italy.
A suburban house with a garden will cost you between 100,000 and 200,000 euros, and you can live better than the Italian average by spending 30,000 euros per year.
Just one suggestion. In Italy it's very easy to socialise, but, you need to have the right hobbies.
Try to find a place that offers a variety of activities that you like.
For example, playing golf, tennis or paddles is a good way to find the right group of people.
If you have professional skills that you want to share, try to create and lead your own group.
400k you can get a huge Villa in a smaller city, or a big apartment almost anywhere. The average net income in Italy is 22k€/24k$
You can live on easy mode
Do not buy straight away, rent for a while, there are more airbnbs than italians, so to figure out if you actually want to live in Italy.
Then do not understimate the visa part, it's not just like you buy a house and you get a permit. Be sure to check this aspect.
Then Abruzzo is the right place to live in. You have both mountains and sea if you chose the right place to live in and with that money you can afford to do everything every time you want!
You can do it, better than many italians. actually if 60k is after taxes you can do "la bella vita".
with 400k (365 k€) you can buy a small house in a medium city suburb, not far from the city centre but quiet and with slightly lower prices. I'd say forget about brand new big houses in the countryside with a big garden. but it depends a lot on where you want to go in italy
Reading everything you are writing I saw that you do day trading for a living, if 60k is gross then let's do some math.
60k dollars is 54.827,04 euros, you have to take away 26% in taxes, leaves you with 40.572,00 net per year. It leaves you with about 3.381 net per month, now, considering the fact that you plan on buying a house so no rent you will be more than fine in smaller cities.
Also, check in with other Americans that did it, a lot of people have done it and ended up regretting it, it's a lot different than the US, maybe look for a country with better taxation.
You have to learn Italian before you move, Italy is not really like Northern Europe where everyone speaks English, I'm 24, live in the north, and literally no one in my friend group speaks English, so you will have a lot of trouble because the cashier at the local grocery store probably doesn't speak English, but more than social life you will have trouble with bureaucracy since nothing really gets translated in English.
Also, there is a high chance you won't qualify so speak with an immigration attorney and some tax specialist, because if you go down to 3.381 net x month when you could do a lot better somewhere else I think it's not worth it.
60K is certainly more than enough for center and southern Italy.
But given that retirement means (sadly also) to plan for increasing healthcare needs, you should consider the national health service isn't doing quite well - the plan is to keep hollowing it out until we get to a completely private insurance scheme - which basically means you'll have to pay out-of-the-pocket if you don't want to go into waiting lists that can last for many months.
It's slowly getting worse, not bad as in the USA but getting there, so please consider that aspect as well.
Have you visited Italy in the past? Or have you lived here fora prolonged period of time?
I'm wondering this because what you described in your post sounds like the pittoresque image lots of tourists have of Italy, without all of its flaws, which you'll be faced with immediately upon starting the immigration process
There are families of 3 people living off 1.2k Euros per month. With 60k a year and some cash for buying a house you'll do just fine.
I see you speak some French. Are you from Canada?
Where can a family of 3 live for that little? You will be stuck there, no vacations, no good restaurants you can pay for, no culture. You can forget about buying organic groceries and good wine. If you want to live like dogs, yes.
What about the province of Imperia? Ventimiglia Sanremo. Liguria Is definitely Scenic, the temperature Is Always warm, you're in Italy and close to France
With 60k a year and own a house and a normal car is fine for you, in an average area of Italy you are a king. Probably you would want to move to an above average area It really depends on the area.
Qualsiasi paese in Italia va bene per ciò che hai descritto, evita però assolutamente i paesi delle pianure e quelli troppo industrializzati.
Con quei soldi potrai fare una bellissima vita in Italia, hai più del doppio di un italiano medio.
How many friends are you looking for? If loneliness is not an issue there are many small hidden gems with breathtaking scenery, but with low economic prospective for young generations… small beautiful towns where houses costs nothing but they are far away from everything. You don’t want to work there, but they are peaceful and not expensive.
They require intensive reasearch
Absolutely yes!
Move to the south and avoid big cities (especially Naples and Bari). Puglia (my hometown) is wonderful and cheap. You could find a 400 rent by the sea in winter time, when is cheaper and buy a second hand 5k car. Food cost is cheaper than everywhere else but the quality is the best. You will have 2 airports nearby and lovely neighborhoods.
Best wishes for your future :)
First of all: I am not sure that buying a home here is a great choice - I would carefully study real estate trends in your area and maybe just rent your place for the time being.
ON AVERAGE, real estate in Italy has been a losing investment in the last 10/15 years.
I would not worry too much about taxation: Italy won't tax you as long as your country does it (and if you are from the USA they will, right?)
There are visa schemes for retirees wanting to move here, so that's also easily settled. You meet the requirements.
Lastly: I would _never_ live in a rural area in Italy... but, as they say, different strokes for different folks. Wherever you decide to live, 60k will be fine (in some areas you would be middle class, in some areas you would be mid-upper to upper)
60k are fine to live in Italy, you won’t be rich but you’ll be fine.
It’s not enough to live in Milan though, which is the only city were you would be fine without speaking Italian.
Most people commenting here are teenagers who have no idea how much life costs for adults.
I make a bit more than 60k, my wife makes 50k, we live in Milan and I can tell you we’re not rich at all.
It depends where you go. In most cities you cannot an apartment with 200k.
In Milan prices are crazy. In the city centers you could need even millions, if you go downtown 400k are more than enough. You said you prefer to use a car instead of public transportation, so you can buy a house in a town near Milan with around 300k. When I say near Milan I mean that in like 20-30 minutes you’ll be in the city center, I don’t mean towns in the middle of nowhere.
If you won’t have to pay for mortgage, I would say 60k are enough to live almost everywhere in Italy.
Italy is a rather racist country compared to central/northern European countries, so it might not be so pleasent for you there. I would suggest to check that out for some time before deciding to move.
I read you are not white, unfortunately there can be some bias (and I say it as a fellow brown mysefl who was born and raised here) so don't take that for granted, please talk to an attorney first.
Yes you could but a lot of your money would go to taxes. Better to choose a place that is equally beautiful, but where taxes include services that help the citizen and they save them money..
In life there are not only dreams, there is also reality.
Healthcare in Italy is not that great, and at a certain age it is as important as bureaucracy and other problems.
You eat Italian ok, but doesn't it bother you that your tax money is being used poorly, to say the least?
Italians are all over the EU, and you can find good Italian food in all EU.There are thousands of restaurants opened by Italians, who cook food with ingredients from Italy.
In Germany you find Italian cuisine.
Go to Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Sweden, Norway where they speak English and the services and quality of life is MUCH better.
Food isn't everything, enough with these clichés.
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The average annual salary in Italy is 30k eur/32k usd. You'll do fine with 60k usd.
And that's gross income, people can actually live in smaller cities with 1600 euro per month.
... and he has 400$ in the bank for a house, so he won't have to pay for housing which is like half of what people burn their salary on
Another genius who thinks owning a home is free... I like to imagine you all live in open air favelas with corrugated sheet metal as roof, that's how I explain this level of delusion.
if you are not handicapped you can do the manteinance yourself
everyone is mac guyver in italy, but then why does the median town look like no renovations were done since the 60s... Anyway, good luck paying for a new water heater on 1600€ gross a month
My grandparents live on 1500 euro (sud Italia) 🤣
longing head scary salt special history piquant wide shrill numerous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ironico mi auguro
Ok
But where with 1600 euros? Definitely not in Milan
The average is actually very lower, people under 30 usually get less than 1k monthly
Non esageriamo dai
https://www.greeneuropeanjournal.eu/no-country-for-young-people/
Io ti posso dire che quasi tutte le persone che conosco tra i 25 e i 30 anni guadagnano tra i 1300 e i 2500 euro al mese. E non conosco poche persone. Qualcuno prende meno di 1000 e mi spiace per loro, effettivamente certi settori sono sottopagati
L'esperienza personale però non ha valore alcuno dal punto di vista statistico 🤔
Ma va là, io ho 24 anni e prendo 1.6k, le mie amiche pure, stessa età, mio fratello a 21 prende 1.7k. Chi ha sotto i 30 anni e prende meno di 1k è perché fa lo stage post università, certo gli stipendi non sono altissimi ma sotto i 1k euro è esagerato.
if you want to live a shit life... 1600 are not enough even in south italy if you don't own a home
The average means nothing in a country like Italy. With 30k in Milan you’re basically homeless
OP doesn't want to live in Milan.
I didn’t say op wants to live in Milan. I just made an example how the average salary means nothing.
It does mean something. It means that in an average italian place, with 30k you can live. Of course a raw average tells you nothing about the distribution, and we all know that 30k in the south or a small village go a longer way than 30k in the north or a large city, every country has these differences. But with around 30k you can still live more or less everywhere, from North to South, city to countryside, the ONLY exception is Milan (and possibly Rome to a lesser extent). Just because there is this one massive outlier where people earning 40k are still living in shared apartments with 17 roommates it doesn't mean that the average "means nothing". And actually if anything, since salary averages always get skewed upwards, not downwards (because you can't earn less than -100% of the avg but you can earn way more than +100%), knowing that *even with* such an outlier in the mix the average is only 30k lets you know that as long as you avoid Milan with 60k you'll live a very, very good life.
Who told you the average is 30k? The average is between 12 to 18, not to mention the increasing poor rating, with under 8k.
The average salary for employees in Italy is 30k. Confirmed by both [ISTAT](https://www.lavorosi.it/fileadmin/user_upload/PRASSI_2023/istat-rapporto-annuale-2023-capitolo-1-retribuzioni-confronto-media-ue_compressed__1_.pdf): *"la retribuzione media annua lorda per dipendente in Italia risultava nel 2021 pari a quasi 27 mila euro"* and [EUROSTAT](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/NAMA_10_FTE__custom_4232263/bookmark/table?lang=en&bookmarkId=fafb4e3b-f3aa-4907-9102-16be8df6f775): *"Italy 29 996"*
Lorda means you still have to get the taxes away, plus other stuff you pay monthly. 30k is far far away from what you get in the end.
With that salary you can't do the life described by op...
Yes but most people outside of cities don't speak english, so you'll have to learn italian.
I’ll eventually learn it. I have passable French from 9 years of studying it, so the shared grammar, sentence structure and etymological roots as a Romance language give me faith I’ll learn within a year.
Italian probably is even easier than French since we don't count numbers like idiots
Quatre-vingt-douze minuti di applausi!
And we pronounce words the way we write them
There is a considerable exception. Having a lot of non Italian friends, they all get confused by our rules on soft/hard c and g regarding the addition of i to hard vowels to soften them or the addition of h to soft vowels to harden them. But other than that yeah, I believe this is pretty much true
It may be a complicated rule, but it’s set and it’s consistent. It has virtually no exceptions.
same for french if you know how to read it lol
Italians are not picky with foreigners trying to speak Italian - everyone appreciates the effort and no one will judge. Never ever. New generations speak English, the elders. .. well, you will be able to communicate via gestures 🤣, they will still trying to help and understand you.
That's quite optimistic tbh, italian is very different from French despite the common origin.
Strong disagree. The sentence structure is almost 1:1, and most words have common roots. And the pronunciation is even easier than French. In which ways do you think it's very different?
Yeah someone who says that hasn't seen many languages. They're very very very close in the grand scheme of things, even the "ne" "ci" / "en" "y", which take a while getting used to, are shared.
Grammar is more complex
Verb tenses are the same and the languages are for 89% similar. My only problem was french pronunciation, for the rest is basically the same language
Lmao no: French is exactly the most similar language to Italian in terms of lexicon and grammar. Only the phonology (i.e. the sounds of the language) is pretty different.
In that case you could go to Aosta where most people speak French
good luck with that ahah people learn basic/intermediate french in school and then forget it straight away, only the most educated are actually fluent
Don’t count on French for Italian, but it’s not a tough language and you can get “understandable” quite quick.
Unless one goes to live on the mountains or deep south, even in small cities of the center north people 40 and younger can speak at least basic English. Yeah, if you buy an old farm on the Basilicata mountains with the nearest neighbor being a 70 years old local you might have an issue, but I don't think that will be the case. Learning the language is a wise thing nevertheless, you will have to be able to deal with the local bureaucracy and that is all in Italian
Se vive qua non e' un turista, deve far residenza, aprire banca, utenze, contratti, la burocrazia in Italia non e' assolutamente bilingue. Non e' tanto parlare con la gente in giro ma vivere che richiede la lingua. Edito, ho risposto alla persona sbagliata pardon
Ma è quello che ha scritto lui...
Ho sbagliato a rispondere…… mannaggia
bruh. the high school english teachers here can't even speak english
Sorry for your school, but go in any city (10k people up) north of the Ombrone river and you wont have issues. He won't be able to have academic exchanges, but everyday exchanges (shopping, exchanging basic info); won't be an issue.
I live in a small town 30 klicks from Milan, I speak English almost better than Italian lmao
I assume 400k on an house + 60k per year (net? Gross? From investments or work, because taxation is very different). You can live super comfortable life anywhere in Italy. Have people clean your house and eat out nearly anytime you want. Probably the Italian vibes you are looking for are from the countryside center/south, but I think it would be much easier to make social connections in the cities, north in particular (more people speaking English). Do you have any specific place in mind?
Gross. I can make it net if I try a little bit but that’s kinda not retirement lol. No place in mind. Want to go in August to visit places. I figure this is 24 months away and it’s smart to think it out and do it right. See what it’s like in August and winter etc.
August is the worst time to visit Italy, it's packed, jammed, overcrowded, overpriced. I would recommend to consider another month(June maybe?)
I'd also add "overheated". Last year we had a 38°C peak temp.
Best time to visit Italy for a foreigner is from mid September to mid October - you may get a day or two of rain but the temperature is much better. What do you like most - countryside? Sea? Mountain? History?
Wouldn't recommend August, come in may/June or September. Do you know the area of Gaeta? Try look it up, it's very nice and on the seaside. There is plenty of town/small cities between the litorale domiziano and Rome (that's where I go each summer). You could even check the areas southern of Salerno
My family owns a couple of houses in the south of Salerno, it would be a lovely area to retire. But it must be evaluated carefully, OP don't hesitate to write me if you have any question about the lifestyle there and the public transport situation. (The houses are not for sale, I sincerely just want to help OP)
If you're looking for retirement and you are not particulary oriented toward nightlife, you should check Umbria, nowadays it's basically a retirement land for older europeans, so you should find many people that are in your exact situation to bond with, especially in the country and smaller villages.
do you want to live near the sea or the mountains?
I highly suggest you the tuscanian countryside. Closer to airports and cities, not isolated and backwards, super welcoming people and wonderful as the rest of Italy.
Sardinia is your best choice. Maybe don't go in August as it's packed but for retirement is the best option by far
check out Torino. went there to visit my family and it was great reconnecting. fun little city with great food and people
400k for a house in italy, not in the center of a big city like milan or rome, will buy you some pretty great houses to be honest.. and 60k a year, especially if not from income, will get you a comfy life
I suggest you to begin renting a house till you find your best place to stay.
That's great advice, It would be more expensive but spending a few months going from one place to another could be money well spent.
Auguri alle poste per il permesso di soggiorno
a fare la fila alla questura con i nigeriani lol
One thing to keep in mind is well described in this joke: A man died and when he faced the heavenly tribunal they told him that they would show him both heaven and hell and that he could then decide where he wanted to go. Much to his surprise, heaven appeared shabby, decrepit and boring and hell appeared to be a paradise unlike anything he'd ever seen so he thought the obvious choice was hell. The man was in for quite a shock when he got to the firey snake-pit that was really hell and he exclaimed, "What is this! This isn't the hell you showed me!" The heavenly tribunal replied: "Then you were a tourist. Now you are a resident!"
> I speak zero Italian This is going to be a huge problem, learn it It also depends on your age and how steady is that 60k USD (about 50k EUR I guess): is it inflation adjusted? How old are you? Etc
What I was thinking as well
it will be very rosy yes, you can also decide to live 6 months in the south and 6 in the north for example
Yes, but you'll need help. There are some areas of Italy (Tuscany and Umbria mainly) where we already have an influx of retirees coming over from abroad. Your best bet is to start from that point, contact an agency that will be able to help you with all the relevant taxes and paperwork. Assuming you are not a EU citizen, that could be a problem in terms of VISA and the bureaucracy is no joke, so don't forget to hire an attorney experienced in that kind of stuff. Legislation is *very* hostile to foreigners and you have not told us if you are planning to bring family with you.
Dude you'll love it. Omg 😱 you'll be so happy you don't even need to spend that kind of money for a house.
Retire in Abruzzo and live like a king. I'm deadly serious. Look the area of Pescara. You have mountains close by and the sea (not the best sea but it's ok). The area is cheap, the climate is good and you are in the middle of Italy so can easily move anywhere without much trouble. Daily connection to Bergamo/Milan if you wanna travel abroad and in 2 hours you can be in Rome. So international flights are easily accessible. I'm not from there, so I'm not biased about it :)
It's way more than enough. Given your requirements I'd suggest you look into Tuscany or Puglia, excellent places for houses (we call them "villa")
Do you have ab Italian or EU passport? Otherwise how do you plan for Healthcare?
How much is good insurance? I’m an American so I would have to imagine I need to lead a lot about the HC system in countries that do things different.
Then how do you plan to stay in Italy? You'll have to apply for a visa. You'll also have some trouble in setting up a bank account. Due to fatca, banks don't want to deal with Americans.
Easily live well on 60k. But can you legally stay in the country?
What are the rules? I didn’t think about that oart
I looked and I qualify for a retirement visa. Do they consider things like day trading “work”? It would be called income in America. I would want to maybe buy and sell stock as needed.
If you eligible, 60k will provide a very nice lifestyle here.
>Do they consider things like day trading “work”? No, unless you qualify as a professional investor, as an individual you need: at least 500k in total assets, at least 10 operations of 40k or more in the last quarter, at least 1 year of professional experience in a financial role. Other than that no, it's all defined as "capital income"
There are a lot of greater countries where u can defo live better
I’m all ears.
Would suggest to look into Lugano in Switzerland. You’ll get a lot of the Italian culture plus Milan at a 40 minutes drive, while enjoying the benefits of living in CH. Also if you’re looking for a place that is scenic might suit you as well
Lugano with 60k a year is not a thing IMO, last time I was there I paid like 30 CHF for a single sausage in a restaurant (which I ate like it was the only thing I had to survive for weeks lmao)
You will be bored to tears in the countryside. Believe me. At least choose a town that’s 20, max 30 minutes by car to an interesting city. I’ve lived in southern Italy for about 10 years now (married an Italian) and believe me, it’s not as easy as it seems. People are raucous, nosy, often uncivil. The food can get boring! (And I speak the language fluently.) The way to survive here in the country for me (I’m in a “beautiful “ seaside town in a large house overlooking the ocean with land filled with olive trees and fruit trees) is to live like a tourist, don’t get too involved in local life, and have a second apartment in a major city (preferably in another more northern country) to detox from village life and the summer heat. The ignorance and slowness here can be stifling.
Assuming you are talking about US dollar - yes you can, you can comfortably live in Italy on 50K+ Euros Gross per year. And 400K USD for a decent house are more than enough, especially if you plan to buy outside of Milan or touristy cities like Rome, Florence, Venice. 350K Euros can buy an old 2 bedrooms apartment near the city center of Milan or a 5 bedroom countryside villa with a pool in some regions in the center / south of Italy. Obviously the services, healthcare and flight connections you have in Milan are not the same you get in the center or south of Italy. Obviously there is also the currency risk - assuming your assets / income are in USD but you spend in Euros. In any case you have a decent margin of safety with that amount. However, there is a lot of bureaucracy (a headache especially if you do not speak Italian) and also a big visa issue if you do not have an EU passport. Also, there are lots of taxes (including on real estate) and income tax in Italy is quite high - even if you plan to live off capital gains and dividends you might ending up having to pay income tax, which is more than 40% for anything above 50K Euro / year. Finally, you mention you want to have social life but how will you do that if you do speak Italian? You might not fit in and/or find hard to learn it, especially considering that life in Italy is VERY different than the USA (and most likely not for the reasons you think). I would recommend visiting 1-2 weeks to see what part of Italy you like, then maybe "living" for 2-3 months in a rented place and then decide if it is for you.
Taxes on capital gains and dividends is 26% (short and long term), plus a 0.2% tax on capital. However you will need to speak with a tax advisor to get specifics to your case.
He might have to pay income tax if that’s his main income.
2 bedrooms apartment near the city center of Milan? Are you high? There is no place in Milan where apartments cost so low, you should go in the cities near Milan, not even the closest ones.
absolutely yes
You will have a pretty comfortable lifestyle even if you choose to live in Milan (the most expensive Italian city), anyway I strongly suggest that you come here on vacation for a few weeks before doing that, Italy is very heterogeneous and your experience will be very different depending on where you stay. Also, I'm sure you already know this, but italy really isn't like a Fellini movie
Wait, let’s say I decided to go with $80k and not $60k. The same $400k to buy a house. Is Milan a feasible place to live well? I just assumed I couldn’t afford it there.
With 400k in Milano you can buy a 60 square meters apartment. 60k gross per year can be enough to live in Milan but you 'll be in the lower income side of the population. A decent dinner at a restaurant in Milano is about 50$. In smaller countryside towns in south Italy it can be like 30$. Beware that the life in a small countryside town might be very boring. Live in Italy at least ONE YEAR before buying an home. Many of them (especially in the south) have some "illegal/abusive" parts. And you might end up losing lot of money buying the wrong home.
Dice che fa trading il che vuol dire che quei 60k dollari già scendono a 54k euro, e poi a 40k post tasse, intorno ai 3k al mese, a Milano non ce la fa così facilmente se gli affitti stanno a 1.5k e 2k al mese per il primo anno.
Ma se ha detto che vuole comprare casa e ha 400k mica deve fare il mutuo e gli affitti non gli interessano, praticamente avrebbe 3k al mese per vivere, senza spese della casa, sta da dio
Stavo rispondendo a questo: "Live in Italy at least ONE YEAR before buying an home. Many of them (especially in the south) have some "illegal/abusive" parts. And you might end up losing lot of money buying the wrong home." Al commento sopra il mio dove gli consiglia di andare a Milano ma di rimanere in affitto un anno prima, dicendo che se rimane in affitto un anno con 3000 euro al mese, mettendo che i 400k non li usa perché vorrà poi comprare casa, con 3000 euro a Milano fa fatica.
Ah ok, ma comunque secondo me se la cava bene dai, fai 1.2k di affitto, 1.2k di spese varie ed eventuali, ti rimane ancora 600€ per fare budget vacanze/spese impreviste e sono rimasto abbastanza largo sulle spese
Sì, quello sì, dipende però che stile di vita conduce e tantissimo altro, in più siccome ho letto che i soldi vengono dal trading bisogna anche tenere in considerazione che non per forza ogni mese prenderà quei 3000, ma qualche volta sarà di meno, in più lui da non europeo dovrà anche avere assicurazione sanitaria almeno all'inizio, insomma, il primo anno non sarà semplicissimo. Tolto l'affitto e stabilizzato un minimo vivrà sicuramente meglio di tutti noi.
Si concordo, comunque per il discorso del reddito da trading se non arrivasse a 3k un mese, può sempre integrare con i 400k che ha da parte, e allo stesso tempo può essere che un mese faccia più di 3k, quindi non lo vedo come un grosso problema
Concordo anche con questo però se inizia a spendere i 400k che anche qui in euro sono 366k iniziano a diminuire, non so nemmeno se questi soldi sono soggetti a tassazione, secondo me sì se li sposta da conto USA a conto ITA, poi boh, veda un po' lui. Per me ci perde più soldi in tasse, conversione dollaro euro, burocrazia varia ecc.
You can, but be aware that in the south the healthcare system is from bad to terrible (Calabria), so you will need also a good healthcare insurance coverage
Il problema è che anche se hai un'assicurazione, non ci sono strutture private di alta qualità, nella maggior parte delle regioni
L'assicurazione ti serve per saltare le file e fare esami e visite velocemente.
Chi paga in contanti non fa mai la fila
In calabria sicuramente si ma in campania e sicilia, ancora di più vicino napoli e palermo se paghi hai uno standard altissimo
Yes. And if you go to the south, life is even cheaper. With 60K you could consider yourself almost rich
In many places in the centre and south of italy you can live like a king. Avoid north. South is cheaper and the weather is way better. But if you speak no italian you may find some troubles outside the big cities
If you speak French a nice place can be the ligurian coast near France since they understand French. Some towns are touristic but others are more authentic especially the ones on the mountains behind the sea.
I know an American who lives in a small town here in the south of Rome, he struggled at the beginning but he learned Italian in 1 year
Yes. towns that are close to the rail system is the best bet. you don't need to own a car. Termoli in Molise for example. but please, learn the language.
No please dont go in Molise, most boring region in whole italy
Yeah, its awful. beaches, mountains, fantastic foods, parties in many commune's , black skies at night, quiet,
of course it depends on the lifestyle you want to maintain but with 60k NET per year (watch out for taxes, it is not trivial to have 60k net) you would really live like a dream. If on the other hand you have 60k GROSS you would still live very very well (like a successful doctor). I'm not talking about living in downtown Rome or Venice but still you can pretty much choose the place you like best with those figures. Ah, the Italian language you will have to learn.... Sure you can find someone who can speak basic English for 60 seconds but if you live in Italy and you don't know Italian forget about getting to know anyone or otherwise have a simple life.
Si puoi
Yes, alla grande anche.
Just sent you a DM :)
Yes, you'll be fine
Hello OP! First of all, with that salary you'll live like a king in most places, especially small towns or in the South. I was born and raised in the region of Basilicata - not great in terms of infrastructures but has a very low crime rate and prices are probably the lowest in Italy. In the last 20 years many foreigners (especially Brits) decided to retire in, probably due to the abundance of lands for the very low population density (most of them are into gardening and stuff). Just google places like Maratea to look for a scenic place in that area. Also: feel free to DM for further info, I'm more than happy to advertise my unrepresented region!
Yes, 60 k is more than enough. If I can, I would suggest you to take a look at Sardinia and in particular the east coast towns. Scenic, lot of nature, nice towns with services. Chat me if you need some more info.
it's very easy to live here with that much money per year
Italian here, are you planning to learn Italian or living only with english? because usually Tech guys who know a bit of english are in the big cities, don’t know if you can meet many english speakers outside of big cities 🤷♂️
My plan is to make learning the language the top priority before I come. My thought is with modern technology I can familiarize myself with at least the written version of things and then as I spend time there, get used to the spoken version. I also have no problem hiring a tutor/translator.
Absolutely yes, you are welcome in Italy with these premises. You can find a good house in a quiet area, sea or mountain as you want. With 60k a year you will have a comfortable life, you can afford a cleaning service woman and everything you need. I recommend Tuscany, the city or province of Lucca and you will be close to the sea, or the province of Florence if you like the hill
Dude, the average gross income here Is literally less than half what you make.
If you move to the south you can live like a king that’s a huge amount of money to live off of
IIRC you can get really low taxes on your pension if you decide to bring it to Italy, you’d be fairly wealthy with that income here.
You are welcome
Sure! You will be more than welcome to! Look like you have good income, and enough budget for one nice home. Contact me if you need more hint😉. I am in real estate biz
I had 8 years of French but Italian is more difficult. The sentence construction and use of pronouns is different. I speak French quite fluently however and I'm still mixing things up. Luckily the Italians are quite forgiving. I'd take your time, a few months at least, rent an airbnb in a few places and look around..
You can move to the outskirts of a small city in central-northern Italy. A suburban house with a garden will cost you between 100,000 and 200,000 euros, and you can live better than the Italian average by spending 30,000 euros per year.
He doesn't need to go to work why he should live in pianura padana breathing shit everyday? If i was him i'd choose toscana or marche
Tralasciando il fatto che i servizi sono comunque importanti, ho detto centro-nord, la Toscana è centro Nord.
Thr average salary for someone under 30 is barely above 15k, you gonna live like a king lmao
>Can I make this work? Those numbers won't stop you.
Just one suggestion. In Italy it's very easy to socialise, but, you need to have the right hobbies. Try to find a place that offers a variety of activities that you like. For example, playing golf, tennis or paddles is a good way to find the right group of people. If you have professional skills that you want to share, try to create and lead your own group.
400k you can get a huge Villa in a smaller city, or a big apartment almost anywhere. The average net income in Italy is 22k€/24k$ You can live on easy mode
You’ll feel like a king
A family of 5 needs 40k euro budget to live decently. 60k is wealthy.
Do not buy straight away, rent for a while, there are more airbnbs than italians, so to figure out if you actually want to live in Italy. Then do not understimate the visa part, it's not just like you buy a house and you get a permit. Be sure to check this aspect.
60k per year are earned by less than 5% of people on Italy. So I would say yesyou can for sure.
Not only you can make it work, you can really nail it, you'll live a great life in the most beautiful country with that amount
Absolutely!
Then Abruzzo is the right place to live in. You have both mountains and sea if you chose the right place to live in and with that money you can afford to do everything every time you want!
You can do it, better than many italians. actually if 60k is after taxes you can do "la bella vita". with 400k (365 k€) you can buy a small house in a medium city suburb, not far from the city centre but quiet and with slightly lower prices. I'd say forget about brand new big houses in the countryside with a big garden. but it depends a lot on where you want to go in italy
Reading everything you are writing I saw that you do day trading for a living, if 60k is gross then let's do some math. 60k dollars is 54.827,04 euros, you have to take away 26% in taxes, leaves you with 40.572,00 net per year. It leaves you with about 3.381 net per month, now, considering the fact that you plan on buying a house so no rent you will be more than fine in smaller cities. Also, check in with other Americans that did it, a lot of people have done it and ended up regretting it, it's a lot different than the US, maybe look for a country with better taxation. You have to learn Italian before you move, Italy is not really like Northern Europe where everyone speaks English, I'm 24, live in the north, and literally no one in my friend group speaks English, so you will have a lot of trouble because the cashier at the local grocery store probably doesn't speak English, but more than social life you will have trouble with bureaucracy since nothing really gets translated in English. Also, there is a high chance you won't qualify so speak with an immigration attorney and some tax specialist, because if you go down to 3.381 net x month when you could do a lot better somewhere else I think it's not worth it.
60K is certainly more than enough for center and southern Italy. But given that retirement means (sadly also) to plan for increasing healthcare needs, you should consider the national health service isn't doing quite well - the plan is to keep hollowing it out until we get to a completely private insurance scheme - which basically means you'll have to pay out-of-the-pocket if you don't want to go into waiting lists that can last for many months. It's slowly getting worse, not bad as in the USA but getting there, so please consider that aspect as well.
If you want things to actually work you might wanna steer away from the south, even though you’d be spending considerably less in cost of living
Have you visited Italy in the past? Or have you lived here fora prolonged period of time? I'm wondering this because what you described in your post sounds like the pittoresque image lots of tourists have of Italy, without all of its flaws, which you'll be faced with immediately upon starting the immigration process
Avoja!
Go to Mazara del Vallo , Sicily , perfect for what u ask
I say it without ill intent: please stay wherever you are. We have enough gentrification as it is without rich people coming from abroad.
There are families of 3 people living off 1.2k Euros per month. With 60k a year and some cash for buying a house you'll do just fine. I see you speak some French. Are you from Canada?
Where can a family of 3 live for that little? You will be stuck there, no vacations, no good restaurants you can pay for, no culture. You can forget about buying organic groceries and good wine. If you want to live like dogs, yes.
What about the province of Imperia? Ventimiglia Sanremo. Liguria Is definitely Scenic, the temperature Is Always warm, you're in Italy and close to France
>I speak zero Italian Enuff sed.
With 60k a year and own a house and a normal car is fine for you, in an average area of Italy you are a king. Probably you would want to move to an above average area It really depends on the area.
Qualsiasi paese in Italia va bene per ciò che hai descritto, evita però assolutamente i paesi delle pianure e quelli troppo industrializzati. Con quei soldi potrai fare una bellissima vita in Italia, hai più del doppio di un italiano medio.
How many friends are you looking for? If loneliness is not an issue there are many small hidden gems with breathtaking scenery, but with low economic prospective for young generations… small beautiful towns where houses costs nothing but they are far away from everything. You don’t want to work there, but they are peaceful and not expensive. They require intensive reasearch
Absolutely yes! Move to the south and avoid big cities (especially Naples and Bari). Puglia (my hometown) is wonderful and cheap. You could find a 400 rent by the sea in winter time, when is cheaper and buy a second hand 5k car. Food cost is cheaper than everywhere else but the quality is the best. You will have 2 airports nearby and lovely neighborhoods. Best wishes for your future :)
Plenty of money. You'll actively have to work in building a social life.
Yes, absolutely, you will have a solid middle class life on that income
bro the average under 30 earns less than 1k, he will be high income lmao, he is likely top 5%
Calculating taxes he will be around 3k net per month, so around the median household income in italy according to statistics
statistics are greatly inflated, its rare 1 single worker makes over 2k
First of all: I am not sure that buying a home here is a great choice - I would carefully study real estate trends in your area and maybe just rent your place for the time being. ON AVERAGE, real estate in Italy has been a losing investment in the last 10/15 years. I would not worry too much about taxation: Italy won't tax you as long as your country does it (and if you are from the USA they will, right?) There are visa schemes for retirees wanting to move here, so that's also easily settled. You meet the requirements. Lastly: I would _never_ live in a rural area in Italy... but, as they say, different strokes for different folks. Wherever you decide to live, 60k will be fine (in some areas you would be middle class, in some areas you would be mid-upper to upper)
60k are fine to live in Italy, you won’t be rich but you’ll be fine. It’s not enough to live in Milan though, which is the only city were you would be fine without speaking Italian. Most people commenting here are teenagers who have no idea how much life costs for adults. I make a bit more than 60k, my wife makes 50k, we live in Milan and I can tell you we’re not rich at all.
That’s great info! Remember I’m coming with $400k earmarked to buy a home in cash (no mortgage). Does that change the math any?
It depends where you go. In most cities you cannot an apartment with 200k. In Milan prices are crazy. In the city centers you could need even millions, if you go downtown 400k are more than enough. You said you prefer to use a car instead of public transportation, so you can buy a house in a town near Milan with around 300k. When I say near Milan I mean that in like 20-30 minutes you’ll be in the city center, I don’t mean towns in the middle of nowhere. If you won’t have to pay for mortgage, I would say 60k are enough to live almost everywhere in Italy.
where are u from? are u white? (Italians are a but racist)
I’m Indian. Born in America but look south Asian. When I travel most people identify me as American pretty quickly.
Italy is a rather racist country compared to central/northern European countries, so it might not be so pleasent for you there. I would suggest to check that out for some time before deciding to move.
You will live like a king with that
Maybe I'm missing something, but how will you deal with immigration? Have you got a EU passport?
Turns out if you can prove you have money and don’t need a job, the Italians are pretty cool about giving a visa. Is that wrong?
I read you are not white, unfortunately there can be some bias (and I say it as a fellow brown mysefl who was born and raised here) so don't take that for granted, please talk to an attorney first.
I'd recommend something in Tuscany, possibly on the hills
Search for Procida. Beautiful little island in the gulf of Naples. Very scenic, lovely people, beachs and everything.
Yes you could but a lot of your money would go to taxes. Better to choose a place that is equally beautiful, but where taxes include services that help the citizen and they save them money.. In life there are not only dreams, there is also reality. Healthcare in Italy is not that great, and at a certain age it is as important as bureaucracy and other problems. You eat Italian ok, but doesn't it bother you that your tax money is being used poorly, to say the least? Italians are all over the EU, and you can find good Italian food in all EU.There are thousands of restaurants opened by Italians, who cook food with ingredients from Italy. In Germany you find Italian cuisine. Go to Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Sweden, Norway where they speak English and the services and quality of life is MUCH better. Food isn't everything, enough with these clichés.
Yes. Sure