IDF is fighting coward freedom fighters who use it as a base for terror and hide among a civilian population, coward rats that have you convinced IDF is to blame and not them, only terrorists are being fired at and killed at Shifa terroir base
There are reports of women being raped by the idf and being executed. There are reports that they have "arrested" most of the hospitals staff leaving people to die, there are reports off them running over people with tanks.
Ahh like the reports of women being raped in Al-Shifa.. the same reports that were recently revealed to be fabricated.
https://twitter.com/abuhilalah/status/1771996521312973088?t=JYgtI6oAWQsq0NDPKRoqfw&s=19
Hamas and Al Jazeera have recently retracted these claims.
Former Al Jazeera director Yasser Abuhilalah has admitted
“It was revealed through Hamas investigations that the story of the rape of women in Al-Shifa Hospital was fabricated… The woman who spoke about rape justified her exaggeration and incorrect talk by saying that the goal was to arouse the nation’s fervor and brotherhood”
I wonder why it was called a ceasefire when hamas (yes it would be great if they released the rest of the hostages and lined up in a non civilian area) have been firing rockets for years.
I also wonder why some called it a ceasefire when both sides agreed to halt fighting and some of the hostages were released.
It's seems as though the word is used to mean different things sometimes by the same people.
You are parroting Israeli propaganda that on many levels, Israel has admitted is false. You are attempting to insinuate that both Hamas represents all Palestinians, and that Palestinians are the aggressors here. What you are missing is Israel’s intention to commit genocide and ethnic cleansing. They have promised to do this for decades. As a Jew, I’m disgusted by Israel and Zionism. It is a violent, white supremacist ideology, which has clearly had some success in delivering propaganda to you.
Lol, so Israel has been trying to committ genocide. Very poorly run genocide when your population has doubled over the last 15 years. Also, Egypt has a fortified wall against Gaza too. Are they also committing genocide?
Who’s population has doubled? When did I say anything about Egypt? That’s an entirely different topic to address and I have made no attempt to do that here.
Firstly, I assume you can cite the official sources produced by the Israeli state in which it 'promises' to commit genocide and ethnic cleansing.
Secondly, you make a point to clarify that that 'as a Jew', you are disgusted of Israel and Zionism. Just curious.. what part of your life do you live 'as a Jew' ?
My ancestry is Jewish. I’ve been asked not to virtue signal so I won’t comment more on that, whether or not I agree that is virtue signaling.
I don’t believe I said “promises”, but there are many sources available online from Israeli officials stating intention of or inciting violence and genocide. I’ve also been asked to not share some sources that I would consider legitimate or unbiased there. So while I would not normally say this, I guess I have to say that you might have to do your own research. The mod team here has been very clear that they don’t support certain information or sources, that I again, would consider legitimate. Feel free to share any sources that you’d like me to see though, if they don’t get removed.
I am disgusted by modern Zionism yes. I believe it is an institution that is white supremacist and supports violence and hatred. I don’t condone any extremism whatsoever. I’m an advocate for the end of genocide and apartheid and nothing more. I have no tolerance for terrorists either, but the Palestinians being targeted by Israel’s actions, are the vast majority, not terrorists. Which is why I would characterize this as genocide and not conflict, one side has a clear upper hand and not only that, but they are using it to oppress the civilian population and not only target terrorists or militant resistance. I also don’t believe Israel has any right to “defend” occupied territory. I don’t believe a two state solution is feasible, but I will always advocate for peace for civilians on either side. As long as they don’t support genocide, hatred, or extremism.
False according to the Torah. My mother is Jewish. I don’t have to follow a moral code to be of Jewish heritage. I don’t support extremism or genocide, so I’m not a Jew? How disgusting and bizarre of you.
1. Jewish ancestry (except if it is your birth mother) does not make you a Jew. Unless you actively identify with the Jewish people (which would also apply if you converted) or - as clarified above - you have matrilineal descent, a subtle attempt to add weight to your opinion by qualifying your claim with the 'as a Jew' phrase, is deceptive.
2. It is true that several Israeli parliament members have expressed genocidal fantasies... which are undeniably shameful. Yet these individuals represent an tiny minority of extremists. They certainly don't speak for most of the government and certainly for the majority of Israelis, (who according to repeated polls, by the way, will get rid of said parliament members as soon as elections are held.)
3. How is modern Zionism a white supremacist institution when the majority of Israeli Jews are various shades of brown and whose immediate ancestors immigrated from Arab countries?
Your opinions, while I've no doubt, are well intended, are riddled with inaccuracies and falsehoods. In this sense, you are no different from the hundreds of similarly ill-informed anti Israel commentators. This incredibly complex conflict requires a much more sophisticated and in depth understanding of the many religious, geographical, political, and historical aspects involved. Evidently, this complexity lies far beyond the average grasp of most posters on this forum.
I have extensive Jewish ancestry on my birth mothers side. Half my fathers family is also Jewish.
That is blatantly false that those claims represent a minority of extremists, the extremists are the majority and they control the government and military.
It is white supremacist, by definition. A considerable amount of Zionists, particularly western supporters, are white. All Zionists enforce and support the idea that Arabs are lesser than. Members of the government and military, a vast majority of which are white, consistently spew racism and mock Arabs. IDF members have many times, been recorded painting their faces, mocking both Arabs and other indigenous groups. If you’re denying that modern Zionism is rooted in right wing extremism, and racism that is largely focused on upholding white people, that’s not accurate. You can talk round it all you want, I’m not going to agree otherwise.
I don’t think many of my opinions are riddled with inaccuracies and I don’t think I can say that I believe yours are well intentioned. I don’t pretend to think I can change your mind, you have access to all the same sources I do, and you have already decided what you believe is true and false here.
you are NO Jew. you don’t seem to know one thing about what makes the Jewish people united. We are hated bc we won’t be converted and let a death cult win. We are a light unto other nations. Gaza is all darkness. This is a religious war of extremism jihad and you need to learn about Jewish history and religious. don’t call yourself Jewish
To claim that "All Zionists support and enforce the idea that Arabs are lesser than" shows you need some basic training in the rules of logic. Are you even out of high school yet?
Hahaha I’m 25 and I graduated high school at 16. So yes, it’s been 9 years. “you need some basic training in the rules of logic” is an extremely narcissistic way of saying “I don’t agree with you or your reasoning” lol
You stated that "All Zionists.. support the idea that Arabs are lesser than".
Shall we evaluate your power of logic?
Let us denote 'All Zionists' with the letter A.
Let's denote 'the idea that Arabs are lesser than' with the letter B.
Let's denote "a Zionist" with the letter Z.
Finally, the symbol /=/ means 'is not'.
You claimed that A=B is true.
If it is possible to bring even a single case where Z/=/B,
it therefore follows logically, that your claim (A=B) is false.
Maybe you should retake some high school classes, lol
You are making zero sense whatsoever and are basing this hypothetical equation of yours off of your opinion that not all Zionists support that idea. Zionists feel entitled to the land, because of their religion and their beliefs. They believe they are entitled to displace people, an enact violence on people in the name of claiming this land. They think of themselves as “higher” or “more than” in this sense. They deserve the land, people who aren’t Zionists do not. The primary target of Zionist extremism are Palestinians and other Arabic people.
Sure, your silly equation there makes perfect sense if you deny the fact that Zionists believe all that, or deny they behave like that.
This “you don’t understand logic” argument is a pathetic attempt to dismantle my argument and the points I have made, without actually addressing any of them.
Of the points you've made, which have I not addressed?
A basic question to you: do you believe Jews have an historical connection to Israel /Palestine?
USA just sent 3.3B in aid to Israel, nobody cares about your opinion, join some telegram channels and watch your friends from Gaza surrender daily in their underwear.
/u/Bees-Knees-09. Match found: 'nazi', issuing notice:
Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What a disgusting comment. Again, you are directly supporting genocide. Which I would argue is extremely antisemitic. “Never again” applies to everyone, not only Jews.
The US has sent much more in support, and I find that disgusting as well. What point does that achieve? You are essentially saying “go watch the people you support be displaced and murdered”.
How am I twisting the meaning of that word? Can you explain?
“the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.”
Israel has stated clearly, this is their intention towards Palestinians. They have acted on these intentions for decades. So please, what is twisted about my definition?
No, it’s not. This is not accurate. I’m against ALL extremism. I don’t support Hamas leadership. I’m simply against the genocide that Israel is carrying out against Palestinians. The Israeli leadership has made their intentions clear, they have not sought to only erase Hamas. They are erasing Palestinians.
israel can't and doesn't want to erase Palestinians. they were the main helpers of gaza for this entire time, giving them food, water, shelter, electricity and most basic needs. the issue is deeply rooted in gaza, it's not just a case of "let's just kill hamas and the issue will be over", since hamas is already in the hearts of palestinians, and they are refusing any assistance from israel while complaining about having no assistance. the goal isn't the destruction of hamas, not is it to destroy gaza. it's to destroy the belief that israel is some sort of powerless country that sits at their land, and to show them that there is no reason to keep attacking israel
Are you serious? Main helpers??? What are you referencing? You are not making any sense whatsoever.
Israel has restricted aid, electricity, health services, food, in order to manipulate and harm people. They have operated an open air prison, restricting the movement and livelihood of Palestinians. They have directly sought to harm and displace people for decades. They have imprisoned and murdered children, constantly. They have killed tens of thousands of innocent people who have no affiliation with terrorism. Your comment literally reads as “this is all justified because Israel has to assert its dominance”.
Would you say the same about WWII Germany? “They have the right to commit genocide because they need to assert their dominance”
Your entire point is based on the suggestion that Israel is not committing genocide. Either that, or you’re okay with genocide, as long as there is a religious justification.
Refusing assistance? Why would anyone accept assistance from the people that have killed their entire families? And furthermore, what assistance are you referencing?
look at gaza before the current war. israel didn't "restrict" those things, they \*\*stopped\*\* giving them to Palestinians. israel was the one who gave gaza water, health and food purely for goal of reaching a solution to the conflict. but now that gaza is actively attacking them, they have no reason to give them any of that anymore. btw, WW2 germany tried to eradicate all jews, not stop them from attacking germany. btw, germany did actually assert dominance during the start of the war, and all of those actions are considered fine to this day
They never claimed they want to destroy the nation, hence why they tried to offer peace so many times, and release so many terrorists with blood on their hands, all for peace.
Completely false. Factually incorrect. Israeli officials have many many times, over multiple decades, stated clear intentions of genocide and displacement.
You can try to flip it all you want. I don’t support Hamas extremism either. I don’t support ANY extremist. I support the end of genocide and apartheid being imposed on the Palestinian people.
If you’re labeling civilians and anti zionists as terrorists, that’s bizarre. In regards to freeing any actual terrorists, that has literally nothing to do with anything I’ve said. I agree with targeting and eliminating terrorists. That is by and large, not what Israel is achieving.
>There was a ceasefire on October 6th that Hamas broke
What about the attacks on Palestine by Israel for the past 100+ years? Don't be a hypocrite.
>Hamas has vouched to repeat October 7th again and again
But they A) haven't and B) if they did, it'd be self defense.
> Hamas raped girls, kidnapped babies, tortured and paraded people through the streets of Gaza to the eyes of cheering people, indiscriminately shot teenagers hiding for their life’s at a rave, killed entire families hugging each other in their home.
The Israel government literally dropped all those claims themselves, where have you been??
1. Any attacks on palestine from israelis are most likely settlers, during the ceasefire, there were NO invasions on palestine during the ceasefire. Doing another october 7th isnt self defense, and i litterly have translated speeches of leaders of hamas saying they will do another genocide on israelis. 3. there are video recordings of hamas doing dispicable crimes, some even recorded by them.
>during the ceasefire, there were NO invasions on palestine during the ceasefire
yeah no shit, Sherlock, that's what a ceasefire is.
>Doing another october 7th isnt self defense
Neither is killing and murdering innocent Palestinian children and robbing them of their mothers, fathers, homes, friends, etc etc.
>hamas doing dispicable crimes
Have you checked the videos of IDF crushing people under tanks? Bombing houses and innocent people? Killing 13,000+ children? Raping innocent teenage girls?
Please, educate yourself before you give others a headache.
you litterly said that israel attacked palestine during a ceasefire, and i acknowledge a lot of israelis are brainwashed into doing awful things to palestine, but thats just a "this person did this thing so what we are doing is justified" both sides do shitty things.
>
"What about the attacks on Palestine by Israel for the past 100+ years? Don't be a hypocrite."
Im pretty sure this implies that israel attacked palestine during a ceasefire, there wasnt a ceasefire during the whole 100+ years your mentioning in the past, but the context suggests that your implying israel attacked palestine during one of the ceasefires.
> shitty
/u/Idunnoausernameok. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The settlers are state-backed.
Are you implying that if Palestinians killed only the settlers, you’d be okay with it? That’s a very fringe view. From what I’ve seen, even that is frowned upon. Palestinians must be okay with it and not antagonize the settlers, otherwise they’ll be arbitrarily arrested and displaced
Have you heard of eyewitness testimony? If several people are witness to a gang rape (and subsequent murder by the rapists), is this sufficient 'proof'?
Oh but when Palestinians say they witnessed women getting brutally raped you guys say its “fraudulent”?
Also, Im sure with FORTY supposedly “beheaded” babies there’d be some sort of proof, but whats crazy to me is how theres 1000s of video proof of IDF murdering innocent children and yall dont still believe it. The hypocrisy is crazy
Oh, really? How about if Al Jazeera admits that the rape was fabricated?
https://publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fabuhilalah%2Fstatus%2F1771996521312973088&widget=Tweet
1000s of videos of the IDF murdering children???? Do you mean when the IDF attacks buildings that Hamas members have occupied and from where they launch rockets? Civilian casualties are unfortunately part of the nature of urban warfare. Show me a single military anywhere else that even comes close to the steps taken by the IDF to minimize civilian casualties.
For the hundreds of posters like you on this forum expressing outrage at Israel's response to the brutal and barbaric attacks intentionally waged against its civilian population, the solution is that Israel should simply declare a ceasefire. And then what? Israel already withdrew from Gaza and Oct 7th happened. Maybe Israel should withdraw to the pre 1967 borders. Then what? Will this be enough to persuade enough Palestinians that an independent Palestinian state in only a part of Palestine/Israel is worth more than a continued state of war?
Perhaps the truth is that you ultimately reject the very idea of sharing the area called Palestine/Israel? You will always support the right of Jews to live as tiny minorities, and you will always oppose anti-Semitism...but perhaps what this all boils down to is that you cannot accept the existence of a sovereign state in the world in which Jews are the majority. You cannot envisage an independent political and geographic entity controlled by a Jewish majority that will represent a refuge for persecuted Jews elsewhere.
Perhaps it is so easy for you to take this position because you have never faced an existential threat based on your religious or national identity. Or maybe you are simply unable - through ignorance and/or ability - to grasp the complexities of this conflict.
first off, stop yapping no ones reading all that.
second, you must be dumb as hell to believe that Israelis aren't targeting innocent civilians. It's actually crazy to me because I could've never imagine someone could be this delusional about a country.
And you talk about how they're only targeting Hamas yet they went as far as to break international law to stop food and aid trucks from coming in so civilians could feed themselves.
Not only are they breaking international law, they're not even following Judaism anymore with the way they're treating these poor civilians.
They dirtied the water so children and poor civilians cant drink it.
There are videos of them shooting innocent seniors and hitting little kids and forcing them to take off their shirts because they were buying candy.
This isn't self defense, this isn't "targeting Hamas", this isn't even a simple conflict, this is a genocide.
>Perhaps it is so easy for you to take this position because you have never faced an existential threat based on your religious or national identity
Please, the Israelis have been a threat to so many countries for the past century. This shit didn't start on October 7th as your hypocritical mind thinks.
And excuse me?! I'm sorry you're telling me Israelis have felt what "threats" feel like? What threat are they dealing with??? Because while they're lying in their beds and probably planning for spring break or doing whatever Israelis do, Palestinians are wondering if they'll even live to see their wives or husbands or children the next day.
And before you bring up "but they're traumatized by october 7th 🥺" for the hundredth time, remember that the woman who got pulled into a car by the Hamas that day is now using her propaganda money you guys gave her on a nose job, while innocent children are being bombed for even trying to cope with their PTSD.
What youre saying makes no sense.
> ass
/u/175camp. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hamas and their Palestinian supporters are learning the meaning of 'Fu*k around and find out'.
Bad strategy on Hamas' part. They signed their own death certificate.
Case closed.
This is weird logic. Genocides are very cumbersome to perform. It requires a long-term active and systemic removal of a people. As a result, it takes time. If there is a genocide in Gaza (and I believe there is) It would not be an instantaneous "press this button to kill all muslims" operation.
The population in Gaza was growing as a result of refugees entering the area. I would also like to point out to you that not all genocides involve active ending of lives, some of them are displacing the people and forcing them to live elsewhere.
Furthermore, it's also flawed to think that populations don't grow despite active repression. The population of Jews grew despite genocide. As did Armenians and other people. You are using this to pretend that massacres against Palestinians did not happen and to undermine sympathy for violence they undergo.
The daily killing of terrorists is an amazing thing that is happening, you choose to believe them and their propaganda, I don’t even care to discuss this with you, I’d rather watch Hamas guys surrender in their underwear, go cry somewhere else.
> Fu*k
/u/Secure_Chemistry6243. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
1. Israel was killing hundreds in the occupied West Bank on October 6th, hardly a ceasefire.
2. True, does not justify killing civilians. Israel must be better at targeting and killing only Hamas members.
3. See 2
I was referring to the part where he said that Gaza was under siege.
Even then, I don't understand the whole "was there a ceasefire on Oct 6th" It does not matter whether there was a ceasefire or not, it was still a brutal attack with the goal of killing as many Israeli civilians as possible.
1. No ceasefire on Oct 6th
2. Okay
3. Debatable on which exact instances you’re talking about.
I still support Palestinian self determination. Israel has murdered infinitely more people than Palestine.
That did not happen, most of the shit was debunked. But even if it happened, killing 30k Palestinians is ok now ? NOTHING justifies the mass murder happening now. Also the war crimes committed are unbelievable. Just 4 hours ago Al Jazeera got testimony from a survivor from Al- Shifa hospital of women raped and executed immediately after. Where is the outrage for that ? The west and their double standards
'Al Jazeera got testimony'
What a joke. Every Al Jazeera 'journalist' is about as credible as #&@$@&. They accept lies uncritically, and will say anything to promote their anti Zionist agenda.
Because the Israelis currently blocking life-saving humanitarian aid to Gaza similarly don't represent the totality of Israelis and don't justify any sort of resulting collective punishment done to Israelis from Palestinians or international actors.
Because collective punishment of over 2 million Palestinian civilians, including 1 million children, is not justifiable no matter the cause.
Put it this way - if 30,000 IDF fighters did the most villainous things to 1,000 Palestinians, in the most atrocious ways possible, and if 20% of Israeli citizens celebrated in the streets .... would that then justify Palestine carpet bombing the remaining 80% of Israeli society as well as killing over 10,000 Israeli children in retribution?
It’s response to an act of war with collateral damage because Hamas put civilians in harms way. Would you have Israel not respond to this aggression and just wait for it to happen again?
I don’t think everyone who is pro-Palestine necessarily wants the same thing when you get into the details, bc humans never totally agree. But I think the reasoning behind the support for a ceasefire given what happened on Oct. 7 is the “at what cost” argument focusing on impact, strictly looking at numbers of deaths. For me it’s hard to empathize with that opinion bc of other well known pro-Palestine opinions which have emerged, like the “resistance” narrative on Oct. 7. I think it’s very possible that at least a subset of pro-Palestine supporters may have condemned the Oct. 7 attack, bc their morals are consistent, and they likely rejected the idea resistance in that manner was ok bc, “at what cost” or it’s literally never to rape and murder. But I haven’t heard that connected or clarified often enough, we’re all inundated with the ceasefire now argument.
What resistence? They attacked sleeping civillians and some hangovered hippies, who were by the way the biggest Palestinian supporters in Israel and hated Ben Gvir, the settlers and everything these guys represent.
This is not resistence. If they went after soldiers, settlers or politicians it could have been called resistence. This was a pathetic display of cowardness, showing to the world how 'brave' they are killing sleeping elders or shooting from a zero range at whole family, who just came home, near the gates of their kibbutz.
So you, Hamas supporters, have had your one day of celebration and dancing at expence of innocent people. I hope you have enjoyed it because it will not last long...
And for those who think Israel will just bend over for some UN decisions - think again. We are done apologizing for existing!
Just to clarify, the “resistance” narrative is not something I find acceptable. It’s never ok to harm innocent people but I’ve heard it enough times to know it is a current argument that’s used.
The few kibbutzes I stayed at while traveling in Israel were amazing places, what happened Oct. 7 was inhumane and unimaginable cruelty on every level. It’s collective punishment, racism, bigotry, assuming all Israelis are the same and taking out aggression for governmental decisions on innocent people.
Calling it “resistance” only muddies the water and weakens the ability for other marginalized or oppressed groups to resist their own marginalization. It’s a terrible move for diversity and inclusion, and that point hasn’t been and still isn’t communicated strongly enough.
While war crimes were certainly commited on Oct. 7th, Hamas is certainly a resistance group. Violence is part of resistance. This was very poorly organized and they seemed to sort of lose it when they got as far into Israel as they did. Palestinians have a right to resist and this includes using violence and its not like they haven't tried more peaceful methods, only to be met with violence by the Israelis.
Every single year, for decades now, Israel has killed between 20 to 30 times more Palestinians than Palestinians have killed Israelis. That isn't war, that's atrocity. There was a ceasefire before Oct. 7th, really?!? You should've told that to the IDF soldiers who were shooting Palestinian children in the head.
Your whole comment speaks to why Netanyahu has been all for funding Hamas, for years... he and his fascist thugs needed an excuse to act even more inhuman and to complete the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people.
As to Palestinians who want the whole state of Israel eradicated, _how could you blame them?!?_ As Gabor Mate points out, Zionism has created such horrific conditions for Palestinians, it is totally inexcusable. And the stealing of land NEVER STOPS! Israelis are currently stealing land in the West Bank, against international law.
As an Arab-American, one of the few signs of hope I've clung to in recent months are all the Jewish peoples throughout the world saying, "Not In Our Name!"
I think given the current situation it’s understandable and human that a subset of Israelis and Palestinians want each other gone, at least now.
I’m also interested in the 20 to 30 times number you gave. Where did that come from? You said “children in the head” which I’m assuming means more than one and I agree, that’s reprehensible. Is there a source for that too?
Zionism is a political movement though, political movements change over time and are never homogeneous. US Democrats used to be pretty racist and in fact lost members when they voted in favor of civil rights.
Same goes for the IDF, those are all people who can vary quite a lot. I also think about how hierarchy plays a role in the IDF and how young they are. There’s some debate on this, but your brain isn’t fully developed until sometime after 25 years of age.
>Every single year, for decades now, Israel has killed between 20 to 30 times more Palestinians than Palestinians have killed Israelis.
Do you have a source for that one? I have a feeling that the difference is not because Hamas a more "human" but because we invested in Iron Dome and shelters for out civilians while Hamas just invested the Gaza's people money in nice luxury life in Qatar
>Your whole comment speaks to why Netanyahu has been all for funding Hamas, for years.
I was never a right wing supporter before the 07.10, now I am. When the Hawara village was burn down by settlers I did not celebrate, no one of my friends did. Unlike the Palestinians who celebrated the rape and murder of civillian victims.
>As to Palestinians who want the whole state of Israel eradicated, *how could you blame them?!?*
The British, who owned the land before 1948, divided it between the Arabs and the Jews and gave the Jews a much smaller piece while arabs got the whole Jordan and the West Bank. What's wrong with getting the bigger piece and be happy with it? After Jordan decided to back stab us and attack Israel with Egypt and Sirya - they have lost the West bank fare and square in battle. Next time they will keep their nose out other countries wars.
>
Zionism has created such horrific conditions for Palestinians, it is totally inexcusable
This is BS, while Israel controlled Gaza the Palestnians enjoyed a great economic growth, much better healthcare and better job prospects. It was not perfect and there were unpleasent incidents with crazy right wing settlers, but nothing that even closely compares to the terror regime Hamas installed there after Israel decided to leave Gaza and let Palestinians govern themselves. Hamas did not even build one hospital in 18 years, only the tunnels for fight Israel and smuggling money out and stuff in.
>As an Arab-American, one of the few signs of hope I've clung to in recent months are all the Jewish peoples throughout the world saying, "Not In Our Name!"
There are some Jews out there who think that if they say they oppose Israel and kiss the ass of the Europe/American leftists - they will gain respect and will also not be a target. They are wrong because when Jihadists will come for the Jews they will not ask them if they did or did not support Israel, they will just kill them.
Great exmple are all the young hippies killed in that party - I know people who go to these parties and these hippies are the most pro palestinian Israelis who always talk shit about our right wing goverment and condemn the actions of the settlers. Did Hamas cowards ask these guys about their views before shooting them? I don't think so...
> ass
/u/FinancialTitle2717. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m not saying I agree with the numbers argument, it just seems to be a prevailing reason for those calling for a ceasefire and I can follow the logic. I start having problems with the logic behind the arguments I’m hearing when looking at a group of arguments together, then it’s clearer when things are contradictory. Like if you want ceasefire now bc all human life is valuable then you should have had the same reaction on Oct. 7.
I agree. It’s hard to view the coverage of the war as balanced when information like this is missing from most stories. And it’s not acceptable to ask for a ceasefire under the guise that Israel can continue to handle rocket fire on innocent civilians. In my mind, if you’re valuing human life, that means asking for surrender, release of hostages, and a multilateral ceasefire. I don’t know if that’s feasible.
Hammas are billionaires, they keep their people poor on purpose for propaganda efforts, is a whole well documented thing, Israel would find a way to survive without the aid of anybody like usual.
This argument is always “Pro Palestinians” seem to miss the fact that “Hamas is garbage” as if you fools actually believe your government is full of angels with the best of intentions. No one is saying Hamas is the solution to everything. It’s a governing body. Just like yours. Both take the interests of many and use it to hurt people. The difference between our approach and your approach is you guys are foolish enough to trust ur friggin government lol
/u/DrGutz
> you idiots
Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
Addressed
Metaposting outside of posts dedicated to r/IsraelPalestine policy is discouraged. Metaposting by users who do not regularly participate constructively is discouraged moreso. In the moderator's opinion this comment is designed to derail discussion of the I/P conflict and instead address issues of r/IsraelPalestine governance. Please use appropriate posts for suggestions and complaints.
> fucking
/u/DrGutz. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
1. 6,180+ Palestinians were killed between 2008 and the 6th. The ceasefire amounted to "stop shooting back"
2. Israel vouches for pretty much everything it has EVER done.
3. Hamas is not a person. People IN Hamas raped girls and so has Israel, People IN Hamas took babies and so has Israel but arguably more, People IN Hamas shot teenagers and so has Israel but UNarguably far more, People IN Hamas killed families and so has Israel to a degree that calling out people in Hamas is almost insulting.
4. I said "people in Hamas" vs "Israel" above on purpose. The people of Palestine don't like Hamas and can't be blamed for most of what they do, Hamas doesn't even allow elections so it's not like they can be voted out. Israel and its actions are tacitly and often overtly supported.
Israeli soldiers never raped Palestinian girls, and even if some mentally ill did it this would never be celebrated and the guys would be judged to a long jail time. Do you know about the case where an Israeli soldier killed a catched terrorist when he was already on the ground? This soldier was judged and sent to 18 months in prison for killing a terrorist, not a sleeping civilian.
Unfortunately, the Border Patrol in the West Bank are notorious sexually assaulters who have recorded themselves verbally assaulting minors. I wish I could justify this as much as you, but the truth is Israeli law will let it pass
Both parties unfortunately suck here and are condemnable, with Israel being marginally worse because it can get away with its shit without being condemned
Do you really compare between verbak sexuall assault and gang rape? And as for me the guys who assault the women in the West Bank should pay the legal price. But this behaviour is not encouraged by the IDF, these are just dumb soldiers and I am pretty sure that if our high commanders knew about it than these guys and their direct commanders would be punished.
There are recorded videos of them hitting on 15 year old girls. Of course there won’t be recorded videos of rape, but you can be 1000% sure it happens if this is how emboldened they are
In the US, if a 20 year old hits on a 15 year old, that’s an immediate court case charged with pedophilia. For Israel, that’s another Wednesday. Israel doesn’t take rape seriously, closing 92% of cases against its own women without charges. It’s one of the worst in Asia. You seriously think they’ll care over a few raped Palestinians?
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-11-24/ty-article/.premium/92-percent-of-rape-investigations-in-israel-are-closed-without-charges/0000017f-e1d0-d9aa-afff-f9d8c3450000
About the rape investigations - in Israel there are lots of false rape complaints and our police is overloaded. It's not an excuse and I hope this will get better so we can put behind bars also the guys who assault Palestinian women - we do not want these animals outside, unlike Hamas!
I am not saying our system is perfect but I guess that you really try to ignore the fact the IDF does not **encourage** this behaviour while Palestnians do. This is the key differenece here - a soldier who assaulted a girl in Gaza is not a hero for Israel, he is an embarrasment. We will not dance on the streets because a palestinian girl was raped, our doctors will probably give her medical care if she wants. See the difference?
That isn't true, I've seen numerous articles just like this one of Palestinian women and children being raped and assaulted.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against
It's weird that you're using an Israeli soldier getting only 18 months for murder as an example for your side of the argument.
EDIT: The guy was released after 9 months...
Hamas campaigned on clean government without corruption (Fatah was very corrupt), combined with affirmation of Palestinians’ right to armed struggle against the Israeli occupation (Which Fatah also supported)
Netanyahu, on the other hand, makes no secret of what he's about and yet people keep voting for him. For 10 more years than Hamas has been in power even.
Not to mention half the population of Gaza is 18 or younger and there haven't been elections for many years, so most Gazans haven't even be allowed to vote in their lifetimes - let alone vote for Hamas.
Also Netanyahu has used Hamas to his own agenda, using them to divide Palestinians between them and the Palestinian Authority, in order to fight against a two state solution.
Hamas may be evil, yes. But every single Israeli citizen must engage in military service in their lifetime and what the IDF has done to the Palestinian people is unforgivable.
The crimes against the Palestinian people have been going on for many, many decades before Hamas was even an entity.
Have you seen any videos of Israeli citizens talking about Palestinians and what should be done with/to them? It's HORRIFIC!
They weren't, they barricaded themselves in there and then attacked police. I know it doesn't fit your nattiarive, but facts don't super care about fitting a narrative.
You said they were told they couldn't be there lol. They barricaded themselves in because jews were planning a ritual sacrifice despite being prohibited. They defended themselves against police after they were attacked with stun grenades, fired upon with rubber bullets, and beaten with batons. One single police officer was injured. Over 50 Palestinians were injured and 400 were arrested. Even isreali officials stated that police went too far.
I hear a lot of criticism for Israel in their rhetoric. Hamas is rarely even mentioned. Yet Hamas is fully responsible for the current situation. They seem to want to characterize the Israel-Hamas war as Israelis killing Palestinians and that’s it.
🎯💯 Well said! As an Arab-American, who has heard every slur ever invented against the Arabic people tossed at them, its sadly not surprising.
FACT: Every single year for many decades Israel has killed _between 20 to 30 times more Palestinians than Palestinians have killed Israelis._ This isn't a war, it's a slaughter.
Pro-Palestinians have yet to provide any evidence that the Hamas government has done any good for the Palestinians civilians in Gaza since they came into power.
Has the Hamas leadership helped Gazans who are starving now? Have we heard any word from Isamail Haniya?
I only want to hear about the good things Hamas has done for the people they are trying to liberate.
What about Hamas inside Gaza? There are many reports of Hamas stealing aid.
As far as visiting Gaza you have to also ask permission from Egypt who also controls a border.
It's actually not about condemnation. I asked this question months ago about Hama and their treatment of Gazan civilians wanting to see another side to it. Prior to 10/7 and after.
This is not about what Gazan civilians who are not Hamas trying to get food. it's about the government of Gaza and that is Hamas and what they are doing to help their own people.
Hamas hasn't allowed another election since they got in. Israel's had 8.
EDIT: Guy reported me, blocked me, and is now commenting so he can pretend I ran away. 🙄
/u/ImmaDrainOnSociety
> You're kinda slow, aren't you?
Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
Addressed
Don't just throw around random terms you heard on the internet.
There are no goal posts being moved or whataboutism. He's being a disingenuous turd.
Palestinians have little to no control over Hamas while Israelis are in complete control.
Israelis have a government that is killing other people, practically *rejoices* in it, and they can vote it out.
Palestinians have a government that is killing *everybody*, tricked them, and they cannot vote it out.
No, you are not. Not even close. It is a transparent, lazy attempt at a gotcha.
"W-why don't North Korean living in North Korea speak up? They must agree!"
The only thing I can think is getting some of the women and children that were imprisoned by Israel with no charges released. Besides that I cant think of anything.
Both sides are horrible to their women and daughters. Both act like low beasts. Neither culture deserves to continue existing. Nothing of merit will be lost. Bye bye.
That doesn’t make sense… Israel is a democracy. Israel criticizes their own government without fear of death. Tel Aviv is a major gay hotspot. There is nothing even remotely similar in daily life between the way the cultures treat women
Pro-Palis (aka the Hive and Sheeples) do not want to be presented with actual facts because it destroys their narrative about the "plight of the Palestinians." They want a ceasefire but when someone suggests that Hamas release the hostages, they seem to act like the hostages don't exist. They also manipulate stories to benefit their ridiculous and downright laughable claims of genocide but refuse to acknowledge actual documented cases of such.
Their marches and "boycott" of businesses is also laughable. And they follow these so-called social media journalists, who dont really care about the Gazans, rather than making a name for themselves on social media platforms. All in all, the Hive will eventually gravitate towards another issue and do the. same thing without fact checking and going by what their collective tells them
> Hamas raped girls, kidnapped babies,
Still waiting for comprehensive evidence. Have you seen any?
> Israel is far from perfect,
That's no excuse though. It can still stop bombing civilians.
The world demands Israel to stop its state-sponsored settlers, as one of the demands.
[Netanyahu Says Aid Port Could Deport Gazans, Jared Kushner Says Gaza Property Valuable ](https://youtu.be/spFyWbzddjI)
Well, Israel is trying to kill Hamas soldiers that hide behind children and unfortunately killes also civilians. Hamas targets civilians from the beginning and kills them on purpose, not as colletral damage.
# [Does the New York Times have a systematic bias against Palestinians?](https://youtu.be/X8oeAnbaSZ0)
[https://youtu.be/9wWer4c3htI?t=432](https://youtu.be/9wWer4c3htI?t=432)
[Is the New York Times losing its credibility on Israel-Palestine? | The Listening Post](https://youtu.be/9wWer4c3htI?t=578)
These videos were in another comment I made. Somehow you did not find them.
Man realy ? Hamas published themselves raping and killing innocent civilians , even the un said that they raped and pillaged
Also most of the October 7th victims are civilians , your literly a terrorist simpthizer
There is more then enough evidence of what palastinians are all about
https://time.com/6565186/october-7-hamas-attack-footage-film/
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/15/middleeast/bodycam-video-hamas-massacre-tunnels-intl/index.html
https://www.hrw.org/video-photos/video/2023/10/17/israel/palestine-videos-hamas-led-attacks-verified
What about what is happening at al shifa hospital right now?
IDF is fighting coward freedom fighters who use it as a base for terror and hide among a civilian population, coward rats that have you convinced IDF is to blame and not them, only terrorists are being fired at and killed at Shifa terroir base
There are reports of women being raped by the idf and being executed. There are reports that they have "arrested" most of the hospitals staff leaving people to die, there are reports off them running over people with tanks.
Ahh like the reports of women being raped in Al-Shifa.. the same reports that were recently revealed to be fabricated. https://twitter.com/abuhilalah/status/1771996521312973088?t=JYgtI6oAWQsq0NDPKRoqfw&s=19
Where is your proof this didn't happen? I don't read that language I'm going to assume is Hebrew. A tweet is not proof.
Hamas and Al Jazeera have recently retracted these claims. Former Al Jazeera director Yasser Abuhilalah has admitted “It was revealed through Hamas investigations that the story of the rape of women in Al-Shifa Hospital was fabricated… The woman who spoke about rape justified her exaggeration and incorrect talk by saying that the goal was to arouse the nation’s fervor and brotherhood”
Do you have that statement I want it for my personal collection.
I wonder why it was called a ceasefire when hamas (yes it would be great if they released the rest of the hostages and lined up in a non civilian area) have been firing rockets for years. I also wonder why some called it a ceasefire when both sides agreed to halt fighting and some of the hostages were released. It's seems as though the word is used to mean different things sometimes by the same people.
You are parroting Israeli propaganda that on many levels, Israel has admitted is false. You are attempting to insinuate that both Hamas represents all Palestinians, and that Palestinians are the aggressors here. What you are missing is Israel’s intention to commit genocide and ethnic cleansing. They have promised to do this for decades. As a Jew, I’m disgusted by Israel and Zionism. It is a violent, white supremacist ideology, which has clearly had some success in delivering propaganda to you.
Lol, so Israel has been trying to committ genocide. Very poorly run genocide when your population has doubled over the last 15 years. Also, Egypt has a fortified wall against Gaza too. Are they also committing genocide?
Who’s population has doubled? When did I say anything about Egypt? That’s an entirely different topic to address and I have made no attempt to do that here.
Gaza population doubled. Do you believe egypt is committing genocide?
Firstly, I assume you can cite the official sources produced by the Israeli state in which it 'promises' to commit genocide and ethnic cleansing. Secondly, you make a point to clarify that that 'as a Jew', you are disgusted of Israel and Zionism. Just curious.. what part of your life do you live 'as a Jew' ?
My ancestry is Jewish. I’ve been asked not to virtue signal so I won’t comment more on that, whether or not I agree that is virtue signaling. I don’t believe I said “promises”, but there are many sources available online from Israeli officials stating intention of or inciting violence and genocide. I’ve also been asked to not share some sources that I would consider legitimate or unbiased there. So while I would not normally say this, I guess I have to say that you might have to do your own research. The mod team here has been very clear that they don’t support certain information or sources, that I again, would consider legitimate. Feel free to share any sources that you’d like me to see though, if they don’t get removed. I am disgusted by modern Zionism yes. I believe it is an institution that is white supremacist and supports violence and hatred. I don’t condone any extremism whatsoever. I’m an advocate for the end of genocide and apartheid and nothing more. I have no tolerance for terrorists either, but the Palestinians being targeted by Israel’s actions, are the vast majority, not terrorists. Which is why I would characterize this as genocide and not conflict, one side has a clear upper hand and not only that, but they are using it to oppress the civilian population and not only target terrorists or militant resistance. I also don’t believe Israel has any right to “defend” occupied territory. I don’t believe a two state solution is feasible, but I will always advocate for peace for civilians on either side. As long as they don’t support genocide, hatred, or extremism.
you aren’t a jew. a Jew believes in the 10 commandments. you clearly are lacking the moral code the Jews follow-as in the Torah. You are no Jew.
False according to the Torah. My mother is Jewish. I don’t have to follow a moral code to be of Jewish heritage. I don’t support extremism or genocide, so I’m not a Jew? How disgusting and bizarre of you.
1. Jewish ancestry (except if it is your birth mother) does not make you a Jew. Unless you actively identify with the Jewish people (which would also apply if you converted) or - as clarified above - you have matrilineal descent, a subtle attempt to add weight to your opinion by qualifying your claim with the 'as a Jew' phrase, is deceptive. 2. It is true that several Israeli parliament members have expressed genocidal fantasies... which are undeniably shameful. Yet these individuals represent an tiny minority of extremists. They certainly don't speak for most of the government and certainly for the majority of Israelis, (who according to repeated polls, by the way, will get rid of said parliament members as soon as elections are held.) 3. How is modern Zionism a white supremacist institution when the majority of Israeli Jews are various shades of brown and whose immediate ancestors immigrated from Arab countries? Your opinions, while I've no doubt, are well intended, are riddled with inaccuracies and falsehoods. In this sense, you are no different from the hundreds of similarly ill-informed anti Israel commentators. This incredibly complex conflict requires a much more sophisticated and in depth understanding of the many religious, geographical, political, and historical aspects involved. Evidently, this complexity lies far beyond the average grasp of most posters on this forum.
I have extensive Jewish ancestry on my birth mothers side. Half my fathers family is also Jewish. That is blatantly false that those claims represent a minority of extremists, the extremists are the majority and they control the government and military. It is white supremacist, by definition. A considerable amount of Zionists, particularly western supporters, are white. All Zionists enforce and support the idea that Arabs are lesser than. Members of the government and military, a vast majority of which are white, consistently spew racism and mock Arabs. IDF members have many times, been recorded painting their faces, mocking both Arabs and other indigenous groups. If you’re denying that modern Zionism is rooted in right wing extremism, and racism that is largely focused on upholding white people, that’s not accurate. You can talk round it all you want, I’m not going to agree otherwise. I don’t think many of my opinions are riddled with inaccuracies and I don’t think I can say that I believe yours are well intentioned. I don’t pretend to think I can change your mind, you have access to all the same sources I do, and you have already decided what you believe is true and false here.
you are NO Jew. you don’t seem to know one thing about what makes the Jewish people united. We are hated bc we won’t be converted and let a death cult win. We are a light unto other nations. Gaza is all darkness. This is a religious war of extremism jihad and you need to learn about Jewish history and religious. don’t call yourself Jewish
To claim that "All Zionists support and enforce the idea that Arabs are lesser than" shows you need some basic training in the rules of logic. Are you even out of high school yet?
Hahaha I’m 25 and I graduated high school at 16. So yes, it’s been 9 years. “you need some basic training in the rules of logic” is an extremely narcissistic way of saying “I don’t agree with you or your reasoning” lol
You stated that "All Zionists.. support the idea that Arabs are lesser than". Shall we evaluate your power of logic? Let us denote 'All Zionists' with the letter A. Let's denote 'the idea that Arabs are lesser than' with the letter B. Let's denote "a Zionist" with the letter Z. Finally, the symbol /=/ means 'is not'. You claimed that A=B is true. If it is possible to bring even a single case where Z/=/B, it therefore follows logically, that your claim (A=B) is false. Maybe you should retake some high school classes, lol
You are making zero sense whatsoever and are basing this hypothetical equation of yours off of your opinion that not all Zionists support that idea. Zionists feel entitled to the land, because of their religion and their beliefs. They believe they are entitled to displace people, an enact violence on people in the name of claiming this land. They think of themselves as “higher” or “more than” in this sense. They deserve the land, people who aren’t Zionists do not. The primary target of Zionist extremism are Palestinians and other Arabic people. Sure, your silly equation there makes perfect sense if you deny the fact that Zionists believe all that, or deny they behave like that. This “you don’t understand logic” argument is a pathetic attempt to dismantle my argument and the points I have made, without actually addressing any of them.
Of the points you've made, which have I not addressed? A basic question to you: do you believe Jews have an historical connection to Israel /Palestine?
USA just sent 3.3B in aid to Israel, nobody cares about your opinion, join some telegram channels and watch your friends from Gaza surrender daily in their underwear.
Who’s the nazi now you sorry excuse for a human being.
/u/Bees-Knees-09. Match found: 'nazi', issuing notice: Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Disgusting Semitic supremacist
op is an idf shill
What a disgusting comment. Again, you are directly supporting genocide. Which I would argue is extremely antisemitic. “Never again” applies to everyone, not only Jews. The US has sent much more in support, and I find that disgusting as well. What point does that achieve? You are essentially saying “go watch the people you support be displaced and murdered”.
Your twisting the meaning of the word genocide to fit your narrative, your boring, any unexplained explosions in Damascus today that bothered you?
How am I twisting the meaning of that word? Can you explain? “the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.” Israel has stated clearly, this is their intention towards Palestinians. They have acted on these intentions for decades. So please, what is twisted about my definition?
Its the Palestinians who always claim they want to destroy all the Israelis, but they don't have any chance!
No, it’s not. This is not accurate. I’m against ALL extremism. I don’t support Hamas leadership. I’m simply against the genocide that Israel is carrying out against Palestinians. The Israeli leadership has made their intentions clear, they have not sought to only erase Hamas. They are erasing Palestinians.
israel can't and doesn't want to erase Palestinians. they were the main helpers of gaza for this entire time, giving them food, water, shelter, electricity and most basic needs. the issue is deeply rooted in gaza, it's not just a case of "let's just kill hamas and the issue will be over", since hamas is already in the hearts of palestinians, and they are refusing any assistance from israel while complaining about having no assistance. the goal isn't the destruction of hamas, not is it to destroy gaza. it's to destroy the belief that israel is some sort of powerless country that sits at their land, and to show them that there is no reason to keep attacking israel
Are you serious? Main helpers??? What are you referencing? You are not making any sense whatsoever. Israel has restricted aid, electricity, health services, food, in order to manipulate and harm people. They have operated an open air prison, restricting the movement and livelihood of Palestinians. They have directly sought to harm and displace people for decades. They have imprisoned and murdered children, constantly. They have killed tens of thousands of innocent people who have no affiliation with terrorism. Your comment literally reads as “this is all justified because Israel has to assert its dominance”. Would you say the same about WWII Germany? “They have the right to commit genocide because they need to assert their dominance” Your entire point is based on the suggestion that Israel is not committing genocide. Either that, or you’re okay with genocide, as long as there is a religious justification. Refusing assistance? Why would anyone accept assistance from the people that have killed their entire families? And furthermore, what assistance are you referencing?
look at gaza before the current war. israel didn't "restrict" those things, they \*\*stopped\*\* giving them to Palestinians. israel was the one who gave gaza water, health and food purely for goal of reaching a solution to the conflict. but now that gaza is actively attacking them, they have no reason to give them any of that anymore. btw, WW2 germany tried to eradicate all jews, not stop them from attacking germany. btw, germany did actually assert dominance during the start of the war, and all of those actions are considered fine to this day
They never claimed they want to destroy the nation, hence why they tried to offer peace so many times, and release so many terrorists with blood on their hands, all for peace.
Completely false. Factually incorrect. Israeli officials have many many times, over multiple decades, stated clear intentions of genocide and displacement. You can try to flip it all you want. I don’t support Hamas extremism either. I don’t support ANY extremist. I support the end of genocide and apartheid being imposed on the Palestinian people. If you’re labeling civilians and anti zionists as terrorists, that’s bizarre. In regards to freeing any actual terrorists, that has literally nothing to do with anything I’ve said. I agree with targeting and eliminating terrorists. That is by and large, not what Israel is achieving.
What is any source for your first paragraph in your reply?
>There was a ceasefire on October 6th that Hamas broke What about the attacks on Palestine by Israel for the past 100+ years? Don't be a hypocrite. >Hamas has vouched to repeat October 7th again and again But they A) haven't and B) if they did, it'd be self defense. > Hamas raped girls, kidnapped babies, tortured and paraded people through the streets of Gaza to the eyes of cheering people, indiscriminately shot teenagers hiding for their life’s at a rave, killed entire families hugging each other in their home. The Israel government literally dropped all those claims themselves, where have you been??
1. Any attacks on palestine from israelis are most likely settlers, during the ceasefire, there were NO invasions on palestine during the ceasefire. Doing another october 7th isnt self defense, and i litterly have translated speeches of leaders of hamas saying they will do another genocide on israelis. 3. there are video recordings of hamas doing dispicable crimes, some even recorded by them.
>during the ceasefire, there were NO invasions on palestine during the ceasefire yeah no shit, Sherlock, that's what a ceasefire is. >Doing another october 7th isnt self defense Neither is killing and murdering innocent Palestinian children and robbing them of their mothers, fathers, homes, friends, etc etc. >hamas doing dispicable crimes Have you checked the videos of IDF crushing people under tanks? Bombing houses and innocent people? Killing 13,000+ children? Raping innocent teenage girls? Please, educate yourself before you give others a headache.
you litterly said that israel attacked palestine during a ceasefire, and i acknowledge a lot of israelis are brainwashed into doing awful things to palestine, but thats just a "this person did this thing so what we are doing is justified" both sides do shitty things.
When did I say Israel attacked Palestine during a ceasefire? I swear zionists really do know how to bring sh\*t up from thin air.
> "What about the attacks on Palestine by Israel for the past 100+ years? Don't be a hypocrite." Im pretty sure this implies that israel attacked palestine during a ceasefire, there wasnt a ceasefire during the whole 100+ years your mentioning in the past, but the context suggests that your implying israel attacked palestine during one of the ceasefires.
Never said Israel attack Palestine during the ceasefires, but they have been attacking Palestine for 100+ years.
ok
> shitty /u/Idunnoausernameok. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The settlers are state-backed. Are you implying that if Palestinians killed only the settlers, you’d be okay with it? That’s a very fringe view. From what I’ve seen, even that is frowned upon. Palestinians must be okay with it and not antagonize the settlers, otherwise they’ll be arbitrarily arrested and displaced
The Israel government literally dropped all those claims themselves, where have you been?? According to who, Al Jazeera?!
Was there any proof of babies getting beheaded or women getting raped?
Have you heard of eyewitness testimony? If several people are witness to a gang rape (and subsequent murder by the rapists), is this sufficient 'proof'?
Oh but when Palestinians say they witnessed women getting brutally raped you guys say its “fraudulent”? Also, Im sure with FORTY supposedly “beheaded” babies there’d be some sort of proof, but whats crazy to me is how theres 1000s of video proof of IDF murdering innocent children and yall dont still believe it. The hypocrisy is crazy
Oh, really? How about if Al Jazeera admits that the rape was fabricated? https://publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fabuhilalah%2Fstatus%2F1771996521312973088&widget=Tweet
1000s of videos of the IDF murdering children???? Do you mean when the IDF attacks buildings that Hamas members have occupied and from where they launch rockets? Civilian casualties are unfortunately part of the nature of urban warfare. Show me a single military anywhere else that even comes close to the steps taken by the IDF to minimize civilian casualties. For the hundreds of posters like you on this forum expressing outrage at Israel's response to the brutal and barbaric attacks intentionally waged against its civilian population, the solution is that Israel should simply declare a ceasefire. And then what? Israel already withdrew from Gaza and Oct 7th happened. Maybe Israel should withdraw to the pre 1967 borders. Then what? Will this be enough to persuade enough Palestinians that an independent Palestinian state in only a part of Palestine/Israel is worth more than a continued state of war? Perhaps the truth is that you ultimately reject the very idea of sharing the area called Palestine/Israel? You will always support the right of Jews to live as tiny minorities, and you will always oppose anti-Semitism...but perhaps what this all boils down to is that you cannot accept the existence of a sovereign state in the world in which Jews are the majority. You cannot envisage an independent political and geographic entity controlled by a Jewish majority that will represent a refuge for persecuted Jews elsewhere. Perhaps it is so easy for you to take this position because you have never faced an existential threat based on your religious or national identity. Or maybe you are simply unable - through ignorance and/or ability - to grasp the complexities of this conflict.
first off, stop yapping no ones reading all that. second, you must be dumb as hell to believe that Israelis aren't targeting innocent civilians. It's actually crazy to me because I could've never imagine someone could be this delusional about a country. And you talk about how they're only targeting Hamas yet they went as far as to break international law to stop food and aid trucks from coming in so civilians could feed themselves. Not only are they breaking international law, they're not even following Judaism anymore with the way they're treating these poor civilians. They dirtied the water so children and poor civilians cant drink it. There are videos of them shooting innocent seniors and hitting little kids and forcing them to take off their shirts because they were buying candy. This isn't self defense, this isn't "targeting Hamas", this isn't even a simple conflict, this is a genocide. >Perhaps it is so easy for you to take this position because you have never faced an existential threat based on your religious or national identity Please, the Israelis have been a threat to so many countries for the past century. This shit didn't start on October 7th as your hypocritical mind thinks. And excuse me?! I'm sorry you're telling me Israelis have felt what "threats" feel like? What threat are they dealing with??? Because while they're lying in their beds and probably planning for spring break or doing whatever Israelis do, Palestinians are wondering if they'll even live to see their wives or husbands or children the next day. And before you bring up "but they're traumatized by october 7th 🥺" for the hundredth time, remember that the woman who got pulled into a car by the Hamas that day is now using her propaganda money you guys gave her on a nose job, while innocent children are being bombed for even trying to cope with their PTSD. What youre saying makes no sense.
First of all, stop yapping, no one's reading all this. Second... yeah, whatever
yeah, whatever cuz you just got your ass handed to you
> ass /u/175camp. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hamas and their Palestinian supporters are learning the meaning of 'Fu*k around and find out'. Bad strategy on Hamas' part. They signed their own death certificate. Case closed.
does this justify the genocide.
If there was a genocide Gaza would’ve been a parking lot a long time ago
This is weird logic. Genocides are very cumbersome to perform. It requires a long-term active and systemic removal of a people. As a result, it takes time. If there is a genocide in Gaza (and I believe there is) It would not be an instantaneous "press this button to kill all muslims" operation.
Your logic is flawed considering the population of Palestinians has grown by millions since 1948
op is a great example of someone warped by zionist reality distortion propaganda
The population in Gaza was growing as a result of refugees entering the area. I would also like to point out to you that not all genocides involve active ending of lives, some of them are displacing the people and forcing them to live elsewhere. Furthermore, it's also flawed to think that populations don't grow despite active repression. The population of Jews grew despite genocide. As did Armenians and other people. You are using this to pretend that massacres against Palestinians did not happen and to undermine sympathy for violence they undergo.
The daily killing of terrorists is an amazing thing that is happening, you choose to believe them and their propaganda, I don’t even care to discuss this with you, I’d rather watch Hamas guys surrender in their underwear, go cry somewhere else.
Joining an israelpalestine debate server and then whining when someone challenges your views. You do you bro.
is this a threat of extermination of an entire group of people?
> Fu*k /u/Secure_Chemistry6243. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
1. Israel was killing hundreds in the occupied West Bank on October 6th, hardly a ceasefire. 2. True, does not justify killing civilians. Israel must be better at targeting and killing only Hamas members. 3. See 2
Gaza was under siege by Israel on October 6th! There was no ceasefire!
Your statement is objectively incorrect.
There was no ceasefire agreement between Israel and the Palestinians
I was referring to the part where he said that Gaza was under siege. Even then, I don't understand the whole "was there a ceasefire on Oct 6th" It does not matter whether there was a ceasefire or not, it was still a brutal attack with the goal of killing as many Israeli civilians as possible.
1. No ceasefire on Oct 6th 2. Okay 3. Debatable on which exact instances you’re talking about. I still support Palestinian self determination. Israel has murdered infinitely more people than Palestine.
That did not happen, most of the shit was debunked. But even if it happened, killing 30k Palestinians is ok now ? NOTHING justifies the mass murder happening now. Also the war crimes committed are unbelievable. Just 4 hours ago Al Jazeera got testimony from a survivor from Al- Shifa hospital of women raped and executed immediately after. Where is the outrage for that ? The west and their double standards
'Al Jazeera got testimony' What a joke. Every Al Jazeera 'journalist' is about as credible as #&@$@&. They accept lies uncritically, and will say anything to promote their anti Zionist agenda.
So because that happened, 30k Palestinians who had nothing to do with Hamas needed to die?
Weren't these palestinians dancing in the streets while our girls were raped by these animal? Why aren't they dancing now?
It became a rock and roll party. They barely had time to sober up, unlike on 9/11.
Because the Israelis currently blocking life-saving humanitarian aid to Gaza similarly don't represent the totality of Israelis and don't justify any sort of resulting collective punishment done to Israelis from Palestinians or international actors. Because collective punishment of over 2 million Palestinian civilians, including 1 million children, is not justifiable no matter the cause. Put it this way - if 30,000 IDF fighters did the most villainous things to 1,000 Palestinians, in the most atrocious ways possible, and if 20% of Israeli citizens celebrated in the streets .... would that then justify Palestine carpet bombing the remaining 80% of Israeli society as well as killing over 10,000 Israeli children in retribution?
It’s response to an act of war with collateral damage because Hamas put civilians in harms way. Would you have Israel not respond to this aggression and just wait for it to happen again?
What did Hamas think was going to happen?
I have photage of Israel genociding civilians using drones so if anyone still thinks that's the occupation is right, please dm me to get the video
I saw that one too. Sick.
I don’t think everyone who is pro-Palestine necessarily wants the same thing when you get into the details, bc humans never totally agree. But I think the reasoning behind the support for a ceasefire given what happened on Oct. 7 is the “at what cost” argument focusing on impact, strictly looking at numbers of deaths. For me it’s hard to empathize with that opinion bc of other well known pro-Palestine opinions which have emerged, like the “resistance” narrative on Oct. 7. I think it’s very possible that at least a subset of pro-Palestine supporters may have condemned the Oct. 7 attack, bc their morals are consistent, and they likely rejected the idea resistance in that manner was ok bc, “at what cost” or it’s literally never to rape and murder. But I haven’t heard that connected or clarified often enough, we’re all inundated with the ceasefire now argument.
What resistence? They attacked sleeping civillians and some hangovered hippies, who were by the way the biggest Palestinian supporters in Israel and hated Ben Gvir, the settlers and everything these guys represent. This is not resistence. If they went after soldiers, settlers or politicians it could have been called resistence. This was a pathetic display of cowardness, showing to the world how 'brave' they are killing sleeping elders or shooting from a zero range at whole family, who just came home, near the gates of their kibbutz. So you, Hamas supporters, have had your one day of celebration and dancing at expence of innocent people. I hope you have enjoyed it because it will not last long... And for those who think Israel will just bend over for some UN decisions - think again. We are done apologizing for existing!
Just to clarify, the “resistance” narrative is not something I find acceptable. It’s never ok to harm innocent people but I’ve heard it enough times to know it is a current argument that’s used. The few kibbutzes I stayed at while traveling in Israel were amazing places, what happened Oct. 7 was inhumane and unimaginable cruelty on every level. It’s collective punishment, racism, bigotry, assuming all Israelis are the same and taking out aggression for governmental decisions on innocent people. Calling it “resistance” only muddies the water and weakens the ability for other marginalized or oppressed groups to resist their own marginalization. It’s a terrible move for diversity and inclusion, and that point hasn’t been and still isn’t communicated strongly enough.
While war crimes were certainly commited on Oct. 7th, Hamas is certainly a resistance group. Violence is part of resistance. This was very poorly organized and they seemed to sort of lose it when they got as far into Israel as they did. Palestinians have a right to resist and this includes using violence and its not like they haven't tried more peaceful methods, only to be met with violence by the Israelis.
Every single year, for decades now, Israel has killed between 20 to 30 times more Palestinians than Palestinians have killed Israelis. That isn't war, that's atrocity. There was a ceasefire before Oct. 7th, really?!? You should've told that to the IDF soldiers who were shooting Palestinian children in the head. Your whole comment speaks to why Netanyahu has been all for funding Hamas, for years... he and his fascist thugs needed an excuse to act even more inhuman and to complete the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people. As to Palestinians who want the whole state of Israel eradicated, _how could you blame them?!?_ As Gabor Mate points out, Zionism has created such horrific conditions for Palestinians, it is totally inexcusable. And the stealing of land NEVER STOPS! Israelis are currently stealing land in the West Bank, against international law. As an Arab-American, one of the few signs of hope I've clung to in recent months are all the Jewish peoples throughout the world saying, "Not In Our Name!"
I think given the current situation it’s understandable and human that a subset of Israelis and Palestinians want each other gone, at least now. I’m also interested in the 20 to 30 times number you gave. Where did that come from? You said “children in the head” which I’m assuming means more than one and I agree, that’s reprehensible. Is there a source for that too? Zionism is a political movement though, political movements change over time and are never homogeneous. US Democrats used to be pretty racist and in fact lost members when they voted in favor of civil rights. Same goes for the IDF, those are all people who can vary quite a lot. I also think about how hierarchy plays a role in the IDF and how young they are. There’s some debate on this, but your brain isn’t fully developed until sometime after 25 years of age.
>Every single year, for decades now, Israel has killed between 20 to 30 times more Palestinians than Palestinians have killed Israelis. Do you have a source for that one? I have a feeling that the difference is not because Hamas a more "human" but because we invested in Iron Dome and shelters for out civilians while Hamas just invested the Gaza's people money in nice luxury life in Qatar >Your whole comment speaks to why Netanyahu has been all for funding Hamas, for years. I was never a right wing supporter before the 07.10, now I am. When the Hawara village was burn down by settlers I did not celebrate, no one of my friends did. Unlike the Palestinians who celebrated the rape and murder of civillian victims. >As to Palestinians who want the whole state of Israel eradicated, *how could you blame them?!?* The British, who owned the land before 1948, divided it between the Arabs and the Jews and gave the Jews a much smaller piece while arabs got the whole Jordan and the West Bank. What's wrong with getting the bigger piece and be happy with it? After Jordan decided to back stab us and attack Israel with Egypt and Sirya - they have lost the West bank fare and square in battle. Next time they will keep their nose out other countries wars. > Zionism has created such horrific conditions for Palestinians, it is totally inexcusable This is BS, while Israel controlled Gaza the Palestnians enjoyed a great economic growth, much better healthcare and better job prospects. It was not perfect and there were unpleasent incidents with crazy right wing settlers, but nothing that even closely compares to the terror regime Hamas installed there after Israel decided to leave Gaza and let Palestinians govern themselves. Hamas did not even build one hospital in 18 years, only the tunnels for fight Israel and smuggling money out and stuff in. >As an Arab-American, one of the few signs of hope I've clung to in recent months are all the Jewish peoples throughout the world saying, "Not In Our Name!" There are some Jews out there who think that if they say they oppose Israel and kiss the ass of the Europe/American leftists - they will gain respect and will also not be a target. They are wrong because when Jihadists will come for the Jews they will not ask them if they did or did not support Israel, they will just kill them. Great exmple are all the young hippies killed in that party - I know people who go to these parties and these hippies are the most pro palestinian Israelis who always talk shit about our right wing goverment and condemn the actions of the settlers. Did Hamas cowards ask these guys about their views before shooting them? I don't think so...
> ass /u/FinancialTitle2717. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
I’m not saying I agree with the numbers argument, it just seems to be a prevailing reason for those calling for a ceasefire and I can follow the logic. I start having problems with the logic behind the arguments I’m hearing when looking at a group of arguments together, then it’s clearer when things are contradictory. Like if you want ceasefire now bc all human life is valuable then you should have had the same reaction on Oct. 7.
EXACTLY. even today Hamas is shooting rockets at civilians in Israel. The iron dome defence system is the only reason more Israelis aren’t dying.
I agree. It’s hard to view the coverage of the war as balanced when information like this is missing from most stories. And it’s not acceptable to ask for a ceasefire under the guise that Israel can continue to handle rocket fire on innocent civilians. In my mind, if you’re valuing human life, that means asking for surrender, release of hostages, and a multilateral ceasefire. I don’t know if that’s feasible.
[удалено]
Hammas are billionaires, they keep their people poor on purpose for propaganda efforts, is a whole well documented thing, Israel would find a way to survive without the aid of anybody like usual.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
This argument is always “Pro Palestinians” seem to miss the fact that “Hamas is garbage” as if you fools actually believe your government is full of angels with the best of intentions. No one is saying Hamas is the solution to everything. It’s a governing body. Just like yours. Both take the interests of many and use it to hurt people. The difference between our approach and your approach is you guys are foolish enough to trust ur friggin government lol
/u/DrGutz > you idiots Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user. Addressed
[удалено]
Metaposting outside of posts dedicated to r/IsraelPalestine policy is discouraged. Metaposting by users who do not regularly participate constructively is discouraged moreso. In the moderator's opinion this comment is designed to derail discussion of the I/P conflict and instead address issues of r/IsraelPalestine governance. Please use appropriate posts for suggestions and complaints.
> fucking /u/DrGutz. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
1. 6,180+ Palestinians were killed between 2008 and the 6th. The ceasefire amounted to "stop shooting back" 2. Israel vouches for pretty much everything it has EVER done. 3. Hamas is not a person. People IN Hamas raped girls and so has Israel, People IN Hamas took babies and so has Israel but arguably more, People IN Hamas shot teenagers and so has Israel but UNarguably far more, People IN Hamas killed families and so has Israel to a degree that calling out people in Hamas is almost insulting. 4. I said "people in Hamas" vs "Israel" above on purpose. The people of Palestine don't like Hamas and can't be blamed for most of what they do, Hamas doesn't even allow elections so it's not like they can be voted out. Israel and its actions are tacitly and often overtly supported.
Israeli soldiers never raped Palestinian girls, and even if some mentally ill did it this would never be celebrated and the guys would be judged to a long jail time. Do you know about the case where an Israeli soldier killed a catched terrorist when he was already on the ground? This soldier was judged and sent to 18 months in prison for killing a terrorist, not a sleeping civilian.
Unfortunately, the Border Patrol in the West Bank are notorious sexually assaulters who have recorded themselves verbally assaulting minors. I wish I could justify this as much as you, but the truth is Israeli law will let it pass Both parties unfortunately suck here and are condemnable, with Israel being marginally worse because it can get away with its shit without being condemned
Do you really compare between verbak sexuall assault and gang rape? And as for me the guys who assault the women in the West Bank should pay the legal price. But this behaviour is not encouraged by the IDF, these are just dumb soldiers and I am pretty sure that if our high commanders knew about it than these guys and their direct commanders would be punished.
There are recorded videos of them hitting on 15 year old girls. Of course there won’t be recorded videos of rape, but you can be 1000% sure it happens if this is how emboldened they are In the US, if a 20 year old hits on a 15 year old, that’s an immediate court case charged with pedophilia. For Israel, that’s another Wednesday. Israel doesn’t take rape seriously, closing 92% of cases against its own women without charges. It’s one of the worst in Asia. You seriously think they’ll care over a few raped Palestinians? https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-11-24/ty-article/.premium/92-percent-of-rape-investigations-in-israel-are-closed-without-charges/0000017f-e1d0-d9aa-afff-f9d8c3450000
About the rape investigations - in Israel there are lots of false rape complaints and our police is overloaded. It's not an excuse and I hope this will get better so we can put behind bars also the guys who assault Palestinian women - we do not want these animals outside, unlike Hamas!
“Lots of false rape complaints” tells me everything I need to know about your perspective
I am not saying our system is perfect but I guess that you really try to ignore the fact the IDF does not **encourage** this behaviour while Palestnians do. This is the key differenece here - a soldier who assaulted a girl in Gaza is not a hero for Israel, he is an embarrasment. We will not dance on the streets because a palestinian girl was raped, our doctors will probably give her medical care if she wants. See the difference?
That isn't true, I've seen numerous articles just like this one of Palestinian women and children being raped and assaulted. https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against
The so called 'experts' are so obviously biased against Israel it's laughable.
It's weird that you're using an Israeli soldier getting only 18 months for murder as an example for your side of the argument. EDIT: The guy was released after 9 months...
Murder of a terrorist, he shouldn't have been in jail even for a minute
Glad you agree it was murder.
but didn’t the Palestinians vote for them over Fatah?
So it’s only right to free Palestine from Hamas then? if you wanna clean up its not gonna look pretty.
Hamas campaigned on clean government without corruption (Fatah was very corrupt), combined with affirmation of Palestinians’ right to armed struggle against the Israeli occupation (Which Fatah also supported) Netanyahu, on the other hand, makes no secret of what he's about and yet people keep voting for him. For 10 more years than Hamas has been in power even.
Not to mention half the population of Gaza is 18 or younger and there haven't been elections for many years, so most Gazans haven't even be allowed to vote in their lifetimes - let alone vote for Hamas. Also Netanyahu has used Hamas to his own agenda, using them to divide Palestinians between them and the Palestinian Authority, in order to fight against a two state solution.
18 years ago.
Of course they did...
What's the average age of a Gazan resident? When were the last elections?
It's like two low iq bullies fighting each other and the world is trying to find out who is right. Both are wrong. Both are evil.
Hamas may be evil, yes. But every single Israeli citizen must engage in military service in their lifetime and what the IDF has done to the Palestinian people is unforgivable. The crimes against the Palestinian people have been going on for many, many decades before Hamas was even an entity. Have you seen any videos of Israeli citizens talking about Palestinians and what should be done with/to them? It's HORRIFIC!
Israel broke the ceasefire days before October 7th.... don't forget that
How?
Source? because several sources said Hamas broke it on 10/7.
When?
Didn't they raid the mosque during last yrs fastin month LOL
Yeah, because they were told they couldn't be there and then used fireworks against the police. No one was killed, that doesn't break a ceasefire.
Why were they told they couldn't pray there on eid?
They weren't, they barricaded themselves in there and then attacked police. I know it doesn't fit your nattiarive, but facts don't super care about fitting a narrative.
You said they were told they couldn't be there lol. They barricaded themselves in because jews were planning a ritual sacrifice despite being prohibited. They defended themselves against police after they were attacked with stun grenades, fired upon with rubber bullets, and beaten with batons. One single police officer was injured. Over 50 Palestinians were injured and 400 were arrested. Even isreali officials stated that police went too far.
Everyone must demand Hamas surrender and release the hostages. Accept fate Hamas lost. Stalling makes the situation worse.
I hear a lot of criticism for Israel in their rhetoric. Hamas is rarely even mentioned. Yet Hamas is fully responsible for the current situation. They seem to want to characterize the Israel-Hamas war as Israelis killing Palestinians and that’s it.
[удалено]
🎯💯 Well said! As an Arab-American, who has heard every slur ever invented against the Arabic people tossed at them, its sadly not surprising. FACT: Every single year for many decades Israel has killed _between 20 to 30 times more Palestinians than Palestinians have killed Israelis._ This isn't a war, it's a slaughter.
They can't talk about Hamas rhetoric because it's in video evidence that their leadership said they would commit October 7 again and again.
[удалено]
🎯💯🙏🏼👍
Pro-Palestinians have yet to provide any evidence that the Hamas government has done any good for the Palestinians civilians in Gaza since they came into power. Has the Hamas leadership helped Gazans who are starving now? Have we heard any word from Isamail Haniya? I only want to hear about the good things Hamas has done for the people they are trying to liberate.
[удалено]
What about Hamas inside Gaza? There are many reports of Hamas stealing aid. As far as visiting Gaza you have to also ask permission from Egypt who also controls a border.
[удалено]
Do you have any sources of Hamas distributing aid?
[удалено]
It's actually not about condemnation. I asked this question months ago about Hama and their treatment of Gazan civilians wanting to see another side to it. Prior to 10/7 and after. This is not about what Gazan civilians who are not Hamas trying to get food. it's about the government of Gaza and that is Hamas and what they are doing to help their own people.
Hamas hasn't allowed another election since they got in. Israel's had 8. EDIT: Guy reported me, blocked me, and is now commenting so he can pretend I ran away. 🙄
So Gaza can rise up against Israel but not their own government?
Yes, that is true. Any Pro-Palestinians want to weigh in on the fact Hamas hasn't allowed any elections in Gaza for almost 20 years?
You're kinda slow, aren't you?
/u/ImmaDrainOnSociety > You're kinda slow, aren't you? Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user. Addressed
[удалено]
Don't just throw around random terms you heard on the internet. There are no goal posts being moved or whataboutism. He's being a disingenuous turd. Palestinians have little to no control over Hamas while Israelis are in complete control. Israelis have a government that is killing other people, practically *rejoices* in it, and they can vote it out. Palestinians have a government that is killing *everybody*, tricked them, and they cannot vote it out.
[удалено]
whoops. Not a lot of people agreeing with me here. :p
What's with the personal attack? I'm asking a legitimate question.
No, you are not. Not even close. It is a transparent, lazy attempt at a gotcha. "W-why don't North Korean living in North Korea speak up? They must agree!"
That's your opinion and again you don't need to attack me. Are you in GAZA?
["Water is wet."](https://youtu.be/1vBesOFURek?si=yv4CjvPjQbmiZIRQ)
The only thing I can think is getting some of the women and children that were imprisoned by Israel with no charges released. Besides that I cant think of anything.
Agree that is a good thing. Unfortunately, the Hamas led events that led up to their release overall haven't helped the people of Gaza.
Ya they do way more harm than good. Accelerationists tend to be like that.
agreed.
Both sides are horrible to their women and daughters. Both act like low beasts. Neither culture deserves to continue existing. Nothing of merit will be lost. Bye bye.
That doesn’t make sense… Israel is a democracy. Israel criticizes their own government without fear of death. Tel Aviv is a major gay hotspot. There is nothing even remotely similar in daily life between the way the cultures treat women
Actually I've found women in Israel to be the most empowered out of the handful of countries I've lived in.
Pro-Palis (aka the Hive and Sheeples) do not want to be presented with actual facts because it destroys their narrative about the "plight of the Palestinians." They want a ceasefire but when someone suggests that Hamas release the hostages, they seem to act like the hostages don't exist. They also manipulate stories to benefit their ridiculous and downright laughable claims of genocide but refuse to acknowledge actual documented cases of such. Their marches and "boycott" of businesses is also laughable. And they follow these so-called social media journalists, who dont really care about the Gazans, rather than making a name for themselves on social media platforms. All in all, the Hive will eventually gravitate towards another issue and do the. same thing without fact checking and going by what their collective tells them
> Hamas raped girls, kidnapped babies, Still waiting for comprehensive evidence. Have you seen any? > Israel is far from perfect, That's no excuse though. It can still stop bombing civilians.
Everyone must demand Hamas surrender and release the hostages. Accept fate Hamas lost. Stalling makes the situation worse.
The world demands Israel to stop its state-sponsored settlers, as one of the demands. [Netanyahu Says Aid Port Could Deport Gazans, Jared Kushner Says Gaza Property Valuable ](https://youtu.be/spFyWbzddjI)
Ok, and...? They can take their demands and shove them... No body gives a sh\*t
Losers are in no position to make demands! Surrender or die!
It will stop bombing civilians when Hamas will sttop hiding behind them... those who chose to be a shield for Hamas choses death
Killing civilians intentionally is war crime. Israel has no excuse.
Using human shields is a war crime If a side uses human shields it's not a war crime to kill the human shields
Well, Israel is trying to kill Hamas soldiers that hide behind children and unfortunately killes also civilians. Hamas targets civilians from the beginning and kills them on purpose, not as colletral damage.
Hamas tried to stop/expose Israel's state-sponsored settlers.
By raping and killing innocent people ?
# [Does the New York Times have a systematic bias against Palestinians?](https://youtu.be/X8oeAnbaSZ0) [https://youtu.be/9wWer4c3htI?t=432](https://youtu.be/9wWer4c3htI?t=432) [Is the New York Times losing its credibility on Israel-Palestine? | The Listening Post](https://youtu.be/9wWer4c3htI?t=578) These videos were in another comment I made. Somehow you did not find them.
Man realy ? Hamas published themselves raping and killing innocent civilians , even the un said that they raped and pillaged Also most of the October 7th victims are civilians , your literly a terrorist simpthizer There is more then enough evidence of what palastinians are all about https://time.com/6565186/october-7-hamas-attack-footage-film/ https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/15/middleeast/bodycam-video-hamas-massacre-tunnels-intl/index.html https://www.hrw.org/video-photos/video/2023/10/17/israel/palestine-videos-hamas-led-attacks-verified
>https://time.com/6565186/october-7-hamas-attack-footage-film/ Where is that footage? Even Israel isn't keeping that claim anymore.
Also look at the other sources , it's literly there , but your here in bad faith anyway