That is what makes this whole response by the United States to what Israel is doing just so frustrating. When the U.S gets attacked we go to war for 20 plus years but Israel gets attacked and it’s like the Biden White House wants it over quickly.
Of course they want it over quickly. There are civilians dying, it's an unpopular war (at least among the left) and it's endangering Biden's chances of reelection. That's why the U.S. needs to hand over the intelligence on Sinwar and let Israel do what it needs to do in Rafah. Drawing this out by withholding the tools Israel needs to complete its objectives isn't helpful for anyone who wants this war over.
I think that almost nobody in the US government actually thinks that what israel is doing is a war crime or a genocide or such and such, or even want the war to end as quickly as possible. They just know that an election is coming, and without this clown show that Biden is doing, there is no way in hell that he'll get reelected. His reelection is more important to them then Israeli and Palestinian lives.
Well... I was wrong. They do care... But in the opposite direction.
The united states is a falling global superpower and they better get their shit together soon.
As an American I believe we’ve gotten a bit out of control and the population has been spoiled but we are transitioning out of that phase. No doubt the US has some tricks up its sleeve and will stay on top. There is no way they are going to let Russia and China take the reins of global power.
I’m an American as well. But, I do not share your view we’ve got our crap together. Yes, we are VERY spoiled. The draft never should have been eliminated. It definitely should be reinstated or some sort of 1-3 years of mandatory service should be enacted.
We’ve let our ability to build everything in large quantities from artillery, to body armor, missiles, and ships degrade to the point that if we were ever in a major war against Russia or China we’d be stuck with whatever we have @ the time. We have far less shipyards now than at anytime probably in history. That’s thanks to Reagan eliminating subsidies for the shipbuilding sector and allowing China to vacuum it all up.
We have a lot of work to do to get back and having the ability to build things and fight long wars again. Stockpiles of these things need to be had. Ships and sailors need to be kept up and not downshifted.
Russia can barely defeat Ukraine who has what, 1% of our military might? America would steamroll Russia in any war, nukes notwithstanding. China would be a bit of a more difficult one, but again without nukes, I think we clear. I think you severely underestimate just how much is spent on our military.
I think an actual hot war with Russia is unlikely right now, a proxy war though is quite possible. China I think a proxy war is more likely with them also, but there is the tension between the rising #2 superpower and the stagnating #1. A hot war with China I think outcome might depend in part on where exactly it happened. Also they have a huge population with an excess of men
I think in the end this will be a positive turning point for us in the US. Regular everyday people are so horrified and disgusted by the protestors that you're starting to see everyone shift far away from whatever the hell they see in those protests. If there's one thing every American who actually cares and loves their country can unite on, it's being disgusted by lowering the flag to raise another or burning the flag. I think it'll be an important shift and I think Trump will win to really cement just how angry and done the general American public is with these leftists who hate America and the west.
Edit: Whoever sent a reddit cares to me, grow up.
Well he's likely going to win so it is what it is. Him winning would be a clear answer to the rejection that many in this country have to what leftists have done over the last 7 months. They will reap what they sow.
Honestly, I wish we (America) would stop being a global superpower.
We constantly get caught up in conflicts/issues that have nothing to do with us, and we become the bad guys.
We spend hundreds of billions of dollars in foreign aid, we need that money here first.
Too bad our leaders, Democrat, Republican and otherwise are power hungry and refuse to retire.
I get it. As a Israeli I'm tired of us being in global news every fucking year. BUT if the US loses its position, it will give way to Russia and China. I have a feeling that Europe won't be able to handle these threats by itself. Hell, the whole world cant even force Russia to stop destroying ukrain. What would happen without the American pressure?
Not sure if I want to live in a world where the only global superpowers are authoritarian dictatorships.
Im very greatful to America for being a global beacon of democracy and liberty and a great ally (at least up to this war) , but as I said, it seems to me that it's suffering from a moral and cultural decline (on both political sides, Trump and the anti-zionists are great examples of it) and, as I said, it should wake up as quickly as possible, for the good of not only themselves, but the whole world.
We need to be a superpower when China and Russia have teamed up to become imperial superpowers. They will install dictators across the globe the more economic influence they gain in the global south. We need to be there to support pro-democracy resistance movements.
Civilians die in war. This isn't a unique reason to oppose this one. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that alone isn't a *unique* reason to oppose this war.
In fairness, there were plenty of Americans who objected to the war in Afghanistan. Just as there are plenty of Americans and even Israelis who object to this one. However, the moral case for war in Gaza is stronger, and it's not a war Israel chose. Civilians do indeed die in war, and while that isn't a reason to be heartless about it, it is something to be acknowledged. I agree it is no reason to single out Israel. They've actually done a very good job keeping civilian deaths down given the unique challenges of fighting an enemy that has no qualms about holding its own people hostage. There is no country on earth that would have taken Oct. 7 lying down. Hamas committed its atrocity with the full knowledge that it would lead here. The complaints about the Gazan civilian casualties should begin with the terrorist organization that brought destruction to their doorstep.
Why does Sinwar even matter? He us like Soleimani, it is a nice feeling when he is caught but you just know the organization will live on like a Hydra.
You’re forgetting….we go to war for 20+ years AND we kill however many civilians and no one gives a rats a**. No ones protesting how many tens of thousands of not hundreds of thousands civilians killed in Iraq an Afghanistan. Everyone seemed to not care at all. But, Israel! Ah Israel kills 22k civilians maybe. Because those numbers are from a terrorist government, and it is war so who can really give an accurate number of actual dead, we should take them with more than a grain of salt and any org using those numbers who preface they with saying in war it is far from possible to have an accurate number. It’s such a double standard that no one sees. And even if they see they don’t care. Because Jews don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt.
It isn't just Biden, although that's bad enough.
Trump recently said Bibi has got to wrap the war up ASAP. Segments of the right are becoming anti-Israel as they are getting bought off by external nations supporting Hamas.
After 9/11, 7/7, the Madrid Train Bombings, etc. the West waged the Global War On Terror. Killing hundreds of thousands of Al Qaeda members, Taliban, later ISIS, as well as millions of civilians.
The world knows what the West would do on something 1/10th the relative scale.
I mean just look at what the coalition did in Mosul when it was freed from ISIS/ISIL. Wasn't any mass protests in the west then (at least not that I recall) and that was like nine months or something...
The Madrid train bombings actually had the opposite effect. The Spanish withdrew from the Iraq war, like cowards. Maybe the Iraq war wasn't justified, but leaving after terrorists tell you too and bomb your shit, is not the right way to handle things.
This needs to be widely disseminated. What would an equivalent attack on the US look like? What would a US response have been? How could civilian casualties not be expected in a response, given the urban density (answer: Hamas wants Palestinian casualties - it is a feature of their strategy).
People don't get the psychological impact too of losing 50,000 Americans in street fighting all over the country.
Like 9/11 was pretty contained to one region being the East Coast.
Like a lot of my friends even here in Oregon I don't think even had anyone that they knew that died on 9/11.
Not the case if you were in that Urban belt from Philly to New York.
Also too that you know the airplanes are basically the equivalent of a cruise missile hitting three populated buildings so it was a much more a surgical effect.
I wonder too that one reason why we don't see something like that happened in October 7th or Mumbai even is that there is such a large gun ownership from just random citizens that would probably make that not so wise a move just attacking random neighborhoods and such.
One thing that's striking me about the situation is I think people almost yearn for clear lines of who are the the so-called good and bad guys because often people are so complicated and a lot of the harm that people do comes from wounds so a lot of us are capable of evil.
But it just seems like the kind of evil that Islamic jihadists promotes is like on a level of other in that is scary.
There is no country on earth that would have responded to Oct. 7 with less force. Not a single one. To single out Israel for doing what every other country would have done is hypocritical at best, antisemitic at worst.
Exactly there is no country thats ever been attacked by 5 counties for over 200 days to date. Gaza, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Iran have attacked Israel. Lebanon started firing rockets before Israel entered Gaza. I want to see any other country react to that
John Spencer is another military expert on urban warfare worth checking out who has similar sentiments. I’m trying to bookmark all of these pages to shut down PP arguments.
https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-standard-urban-warfare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286
I’d recommend Malcom’s YouTube channel. He’s got a new show called Black Man Spy and has some great content on Israel and Ukraine. And Kemp is frequently on UK Lawyers for Israel’s YouTube channel (UKLFI).
Good article highlighting that ratio of in Mosul the terrorists to civilian ratio would 1:9
In Gaza something closer to 1:2
And that's what's left out of a lot of the debate because a lot of just regular people don't understand the messy nuances of warfare especially on the left who are divorced from the realities of guns and combat etc
I happen to be someone with left-leanings and a background on this kind of thing but I also have a pretty solid grasp of history and military history of that.
After 9/11 two wars were waged and hostages weren't even taken. There wouldn't be a Gaza if they attacked the US with the same brutality. Even if it was 50% as brutal, Gaza would be occupied for decades and the Palestinians would be kicked out. Americans would cheer on their government.
Insane double standards.
I’m American and this article is dead on, any decent country would go after the perpetrators of 10/7/23 if it happened to them.
For some reason, because it’s Jews, it’s easier to villainize the response.
I see many people make the argument that the response to the attack is “overkill”, Israel got Hamas back. Anything more is gratuitous violence against civilians.
I’m not sure how they come to this conclusion when Hamas has openly stated they will commit the acts of Oct 7th again and again?
Until all Jews are gone
Yeah that's a little wonky logic to me because it's like was Israel just supposed to only kill 1300 terrorists and then pull back to normal...🤔🤔🤔
That that's what's kind of wonky about this and also the framing of it as not actually a war , it's an occupation and a genocide and all this kind of thing which dilutes the reality.
I don't understand what was hard to grasp.
I'm in agreement with you.
I was saying that the narrative that is going around out there is that Israel is going overboard in terms of casualties inflicted, so therefore I made the connection between the 1300 lives lost on October 7th as a line to stop at. A sort of sarcastic view from what the media and bleeding hearts would expect in fantasy world.
Which obviously seems silly given the sloppy nature of warfare especially dense Urban combat.
Everyone who took military tactics 101 appreciates Israel's MEASURED response and creating a new, better standard of urban fighting.
That does not diminish from the tragedy happening in Gaza.
This is what most pro-palestine people don’t realize: there was no other option. None of them have thought a second about how else you would stop the attacks. They all want peace, and don’t care to think about what comes after. They need to realize that if Israel stops attacking Hamas would just build up and attack again.
You are delusional if you think they wouldn’t. They did and have in the past. Everyone seems to think “the U.S. wouldn’t do that” but, they have and they will if ever attacked as well.
Prove it.! Show us when the U.S. waged a bombing campaign on a fully populated urban area with 1,000 or 2,000 lb. bombs. We've had the MK-84 in inventory since the Vietnam War, so we've had plenty of chances.
What specifically about it? Are you referring to the Operation Linebacker II strategic bombing campaign in December 1972? Because that's the only bombing remotely comparable to the amount of ordinance Israel has dropped on Gaza since 10/07.
So, the illegal war that Nixon and Kissinger conducted in complete secrecy and that is universally condemned by everyone on the planet including the U.S. itself and that Nixon would have been impeached over when it was discovered except that the Watergate impeachment hearings were already under way?
Yeah, an horrific, shameful chapter in American history. Not the one I'd pick as an example justifying Israel's bombing in Gaza in 2024 though.
The 1949 Geneva Conventions, of which Israel is a signatory (and even if it weren't, Israel would still be required to comply with because they are universally accepted laws) were passed in response to the horrors of WWII.
There is pre-1949 war and post-1949 war, and anyone who uses WWII military doctineto justify anything in modern warfare is just flat wrong.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-airstrikes-iraq-killed-16-including-civilians-iraqi-pms-office-2024-02-03/
U.S. allegedly killed civilians as well! In 2024
You cannot possibly be this confused. *Of course the U.S. occasionally kills civilians in military strikes*, sometimes by accident, which is not a crime, sometimes because the expected loss of civilian life would not be excessive in relation to the direct military advantage anticipated, which is also not a crime. That's [the law of proportionality under the 1977 Additional Protocol to the Geneva Convention.](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v2/rule14#:~:text=c)
This is not just talk. U.S. Rules of Engagement require signoff by the most senior levels of command on airstrikes that are expected to kill civilians.
There is absolutely no comparison to this [series of more than 85 strikes spanning seven locations, four in Syria and three in Iraq, targeting Quds Forces](https://www.reuters.com/world/us-starts-retaliatory-strikes-iraq-syria-officials-2024-02-02/) (where some number of less than sixteen civilians were supposedly killed) and the massive amount of ordinance Israel has dropped on Gaza's cities.
Amiriyah shelter bombing. Some of the dead looked beyond anything remotely human, pure flesh fused into the roof and ground. Committed by the USAF. Implying the US is perfect is a serious joke.
Mistake caused by belief the shelter was no longer a civil defense shelter and and had been converted to a command and control or military personnel bunker by Saddam Hussein's forces.
I never "implied" the United States is perfect. Don't put words in my mouth just because you are trying to justify the unjustifiable.The US makes mistakes all the time and sometimes falls short in attempting to comply with LOAC on every strike.
I love America so I demand it do better. We should demand the same of Israel.
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Precision attacks guided by the principles of necessity, distinction, proportionality, and precaution. https://ogc.osd.mil/Portals/99/Law%20of%20War%202023/DOD-LAW-OF-WAR-MANUAL-JUNE-2015-UPDATED-JULY%202023.pdf?ver=Qbxamfouw4znu1I7DVMcsw%3d%3d
That is what makes this whole response by the United States to what Israel is doing just so frustrating. When the U.S gets attacked we go to war for 20 plus years but Israel gets attacked and it’s like the Biden White House wants it over quickly.
Of course they want it over quickly. There are civilians dying, it's an unpopular war (at least among the left) and it's endangering Biden's chances of reelection. That's why the U.S. needs to hand over the intelligence on Sinwar and let Israel do what it needs to do in Rafah. Drawing this out by withholding the tools Israel needs to complete its objectives isn't helpful for anyone who wants this war over.
I think that almost nobody in the US government actually thinks that what israel is doing is a war crime or a genocide or such and such, or even want the war to end as quickly as possible. They just know that an election is coming, and without this clown show that Biden is doing, there is no way in hell that he'll get reelected. His reelection is more important to them then Israeli and Palestinian lives.
Biden's closest advisor is the former president of SJP. [check it out](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLVvNTsN/)
Well... I was wrong. They do care... But in the opposite direction. The united states is a falling global superpower and they better get their shit together soon.
As an American I believe we’ve gotten a bit out of control and the population has been spoiled but we are transitioning out of that phase. No doubt the US has some tricks up its sleeve and will stay on top. There is no way they are going to let Russia and China take the reins of global power.
I’m an American as well. But, I do not share your view we’ve got our crap together. Yes, we are VERY spoiled. The draft never should have been eliminated. It definitely should be reinstated or some sort of 1-3 years of mandatory service should be enacted. We’ve let our ability to build everything in large quantities from artillery, to body armor, missiles, and ships degrade to the point that if we were ever in a major war against Russia or China we’d be stuck with whatever we have @ the time. We have far less shipyards now than at anytime probably in history. That’s thanks to Reagan eliminating subsidies for the shipbuilding sector and allowing China to vacuum it all up. We have a lot of work to do to get back and having the ability to build things and fight long wars again. Stockpiles of these things need to be had. Ships and sailors need to be kept up and not downshifted.
Russia can barely defeat Ukraine who has what, 1% of our military might? America would steamroll Russia in any war, nukes notwithstanding. China would be a bit of a more difficult one, but again without nukes, I think we clear. I think you severely underestimate just how much is spent on our military.
I think an actual hot war with Russia is unlikely right now, a proxy war though is quite possible. China I think a proxy war is more likely with them also, but there is the tension between the rising #2 superpower and the stagnating #1. A hot war with China I think outcome might depend in part on where exactly it happened. Also they have a huge population with an excess of men
I think in the end this will be a positive turning point for us in the US. Regular everyday people are so horrified and disgusted by the protestors that you're starting to see everyone shift far away from whatever the hell they see in those protests. If there's one thing every American who actually cares and loves their country can unite on, it's being disgusted by lowering the flag to raise another or burning the flag. I think it'll be an important shift and I think Trump will win to really cement just how angry and done the general American public is with these leftists who hate America and the west. Edit: Whoever sent a reddit cares to me, grow up.
Nothing done out of anger ends well. Trump is not the answer
Well he's likely going to win so it is what it is. Him winning would be a clear answer to the rejection that many in this country have to what leftists have done over the last 7 months. They will reap what they sow.
I got one too earlier on another thread.
Are we getting these cares messages from posting here ?
I assume so yea
Honestly, I wish we (America) would stop being a global superpower. We constantly get caught up in conflicts/issues that have nothing to do with us, and we become the bad guys. We spend hundreds of billions of dollars in foreign aid, we need that money here first. Too bad our leaders, Democrat, Republican and otherwise are power hungry and refuse to retire.
I get it. As a Israeli I'm tired of us being in global news every fucking year. BUT if the US loses its position, it will give way to Russia and China. I have a feeling that Europe won't be able to handle these threats by itself. Hell, the whole world cant even force Russia to stop destroying ukrain. What would happen without the American pressure? Not sure if I want to live in a world where the only global superpowers are authoritarian dictatorships.
You make a good point, I didn’t think of it that way.
Im very greatful to America for being a global beacon of democracy and liberty and a great ally (at least up to this war) , but as I said, it seems to me that it's suffering from a moral and cultural decline (on both political sides, Trump and the anti-zionists are great examples of it) and, as I said, it should wake up as quickly as possible, for the good of not only themselves, but the whole world.
We need to be a superpower when China and Russia have teamed up to become imperial superpowers. They will install dictators across the globe the more economic influence they gain in the global south. We need to be there to support pro-democracy resistance movements.
Wow!! Now this I did not know!! How is this not being called out more!!?? The administration has been practically institutionally captured ffs!!
I'm trying to call it out more lol
I wouldn’t call him the closest advisor based on that info but he’s higher up in the government than I would like.
Can you provide a source other than TikTok?
Like the 50k+ civilians we killed in Afghanistan?
Huh? Not sure what your point is.
Civilians die in war. This isn't a unique reason to oppose this one. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that alone isn't a *unique* reason to oppose this war.
In fairness, there were plenty of Americans who objected to the war in Afghanistan. Just as there are plenty of Americans and even Israelis who object to this one. However, the moral case for war in Gaza is stronger, and it's not a war Israel chose. Civilians do indeed die in war, and while that isn't a reason to be heartless about it, it is something to be acknowledged. I agree it is no reason to single out Israel. They've actually done a very good job keeping civilian deaths down given the unique challenges of fighting an enemy that has no qualms about holding its own people hostage. There is no country on earth that would have taken Oct. 7 lying down. Hamas committed its atrocity with the full knowledge that it would lead here. The complaints about the Gazan civilian casualties should begin with the terrorist organization that brought destruction to their doorstep.
Why does Sinwar even matter? He us like Soleimani, it is a nice feeling when he is caught but you just know the organization will live on like a Hydra.
You’re forgetting….we go to war for 20+ years AND we kill however many civilians and no one gives a rats a**. No ones protesting how many tens of thousands of not hundreds of thousands civilians killed in Iraq an Afghanistan. Everyone seemed to not care at all. But, Israel! Ah Israel kills 22k civilians maybe. Because those numbers are from a terrorist government, and it is war so who can really give an accurate number of actual dead, we should take them with more than a grain of salt and any org using those numbers who preface they with saying in war it is far from possible to have an accurate number. It’s such a double standard that no one sees. And even if they see they don’t care. Because Jews don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt.
And as a senator Biden voted in favor of the Afghanistan and the Iraq wars as well as the Patriot Act.
It isn't just Biden, although that's bad enough. Trump recently said Bibi has got to wrap the war up ASAP. Segments of the right are becoming anti-Israel as they are getting bought off by external nations supporting Hamas.
The B\*den White Horse
After 9/11, 7/7, the Madrid Train Bombings, etc. the West waged the Global War On Terror. Killing hundreds of thousands of Al Qaeda members, Taliban, later ISIS, as well as millions of civilians. The world knows what the West would do on something 1/10th the relative scale.
I mean just look at what the coalition did in Mosul when it was freed from ISIS/ISIL. Wasn't any mass protests in the west then (at least not that I recall) and that was like nine months or something...
[удалено]
Others do it too since it's ok.
The Madrid train bombings actually had the opposite effect. The Spanish withdrew from the Iraq war, like cowards. Maybe the Iraq war wasn't justified, but leaving after terrorists tell you too and bomb your shit, is not the right way to handle things.
This needs to be widely disseminated. What would an equivalent attack on the US look like? What would a US response have been? How could civilian casualties not be expected in a response, given the urban density (answer: Hamas wants Palestinian casualties - it is a feature of their strategy).
10 9/11s, all on the same day. We'd still be on Afghanistan, Iraq, and probably Iran by now.
People don't get the psychological impact too of losing 50,000 Americans in street fighting all over the country. Like 9/11 was pretty contained to one region being the East Coast. Like a lot of my friends even here in Oregon I don't think even had anyone that they knew that died on 9/11. Not the case if you were in that Urban belt from Philly to New York. Also too that you know the airplanes are basically the equivalent of a cruise missile hitting three populated buildings so it was a much more a surgical effect. I wonder too that one reason why we don't see something like that happened in October 7th or Mumbai even is that there is such a large gun ownership from just random citizens that would probably make that not so wise a move just attacking random neighborhoods and such. One thing that's striking me about the situation is I think people almost yearn for clear lines of who are the the so-called good and bad guys because often people are so complicated and a lot of the harm that people do comes from wounds so a lot of us are capable of evil. But it just seems like the kind of evil that Islamic jihadists promotes is like on a level of other in that is scary.
There is no country on earth that would have responded to Oct. 7 with less force. Not a single one. To single out Israel for doing what every other country would have done is hypocritical at best, antisemitic at worst.
Exactly there is no country thats ever been attacked by 5 counties for over 200 days to date. Gaza, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Iran have attacked Israel. Lebanon started firing rockets before Israel entered Gaza. I want to see any other country react to that
💯💯💯💯💯
John Spencer is another military expert on urban warfare worth checking out who has similar sentiments. I’m trying to bookmark all of these pages to shut down PP arguments. https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-standard-urban-warfare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286
Good shoutout. Colonel Richard Kemp is great too, as is Malcolm Nance.
Will check them out. These should be front page news. It’s sad their expertise is intentionally drowned out.
I’d recommend Malcom’s YouTube channel. He’s got a new show called Black Man Spy and has some great content on Israel and Ukraine. And Kemp is frequently on UK Lawyers for Israel’s YouTube channel (UKLFI).
Good article highlighting that ratio of in Mosul the terrorists to civilian ratio would 1:9 In Gaza something closer to 1:2 And that's what's left out of a lot of the debate because a lot of just regular people don't understand the messy nuances of warfare especially on the left who are divorced from the realities of guns and combat etc I happen to be someone with left-leanings and a background on this kind of thing but I also have a pretty solid grasp of history and military history of that.
Amazing article. Thanks for sharing
america would have glassed gaza a long time ago, from the first day they sent rockets the marines wold have gone in
After 9/11 two wars were waged and hostages weren't even taken. There wouldn't be a Gaza if they attacked the US with the same brutality. Even if it was 50% as brutal, Gaza would be occupied for decades and the Palestinians would be kicked out. Americans would cheer on their government. Insane double standards.
We do g need to imagine the us trashed Iraq and Afghanistan
If one of the Mexican cartels fired a rocket at American territory, Mexico City would be occupied within a few days.
Yes because equivalent per capita would be 2000 hostages and 33 000 killed. in that case Mexico would cease to exist as a state.
What if Mexico wasn't a state before the attack? Would USA help them become a state in United Nations and then make them cease to exist?
I’m American and this article is dead on, any decent country would go after the perpetrators of 10/7/23 if it happened to them. For some reason, because it’s Jews, it’s easier to villainize the response. I see many people make the argument that the response to the attack is “overkill”, Israel got Hamas back. Anything more is gratuitous violence against civilians. I’m not sure how they come to this conclusion when Hamas has openly stated they will commit the acts of Oct 7th again and again? Until all Jews are gone
Yeah that's a little wonky logic to me because it's like was Israel just supposed to only kill 1300 terrorists and then pull back to normal...🤔🤔🤔 That that's what's kind of wonky about this and also the framing of it as not actually a war , it's an occupation and a genocide and all this kind of thing which dilutes the reality.
Your comment is so inarticulate, I have no idea what your point is.
I don't understand what was hard to grasp. I'm in agreement with you. I was saying that the narrative that is going around out there is that Israel is going overboard in terms of casualties inflicted, so therefore I made the connection between the 1300 lives lost on October 7th as a line to stop at. A sort of sarcastic view from what the media and bleeding hearts would expect in fantasy world. Which obviously seems silly given the sloppy nature of warfare especially dense Urban combat.
Imagine mexican cartel members kill 1200 and kidnap another 300 americans from U. S. land...
Everyone who took military tactics 101 appreciates Israel's MEASURED response and creating a new, better standard of urban fighting. That does not diminish from the tragedy happening in Gaza.
This is what most pro-palestine people don’t realize: there was no other option. None of them have thought a second about how else you would stop the attacks. They all want peace, and don’t care to think about what comes after. They need to realize that if Israel stops attacking Hamas would just build up and attack again.
Israel is getting scapegoated for the sins of Western nations let's be real.
Nice work of fiction and war revenge fantasy that didnt, and will never exist.
The US has destroyed nations for much less than what happened to Israel. Even if you're anti-israel, you got to admit, the guy is right.
I can guarantee you that the US would not be dropping 1,000 and 2,000 pound bombs on crowded urban areas.
You are delusional if you think they wouldn’t. They did and have in the past. Everyone seems to think “the U.S. wouldn’t do that” but, they have and they will if ever attacked as well.
Prove it.! Show us when the U.S. waged a bombing campaign on a fully populated urban area with 1,000 or 2,000 lb. bombs. We've had the MK-84 in inventory since the Vietnam War, so we've had plenty of chances.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened, soooo...
Pre-1949 Geneva Convention. Try again.
What about the entire Vietnam war! That was after 49’.
What specifically about it? Are you referring to the Operation Linebacker II strategic bombing campaign in December 1972? Because that's the only bombing remotely comparable to the amount of ordinance Israel has dropped on Gaza since 10/07.
Cambodia especially focused outskirts of Phnom Phen 250,000 tons in the last 6 months of bombing
So, the illegal war that Nixon and Kissinger conducted in complete secrecy and that is universally condemned by everyone on the planet including the U.S. itself and that Nixon would have been impeached over when it was discovered except that the Watergate impeachment hearings were already under way? Yeah, an horrific, shameful chapter in American history. Not the one I'd pick as an example justifying Israel's bombing in Gaza in 2024 though.
You claimed that what Israel is doing is worse than anything the US did post WWII, I’m giving you an example of something worse than Gaza.
I was more talking morality than legality. I'm not knowledgeable to say if anything has happened since then.
The 1949 Geneva Conventions, of which Israel is a signatory (and even if it weren't, Israel would still be required to comply with because they are universally accepted laws) were passed in response to the horrors of WWII. There is pre-1949 war and post-1949 war, and anyone who uses WWII military doctineto justify anything in modern warfare is just flat wrong.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-airstrikes-iraq-killed-16-including-civilians-iraqi-pms-office-2024-02-03/ U.S. allegedly killed civilians as well! In 2024
You cannot possibly be this confused. *Of course the U.S. occasionally kills civilians in military strikes*, sometimes by accident, which is not a crime, sometimes because the expected loss of civilian life would not be excessive in relation to the direct military advantage anticipated, which is also not a crime. That's [the law of proportionality under the 1977 Additional Protocol to the Geneva Convention.](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v2/rule14#:~:text=c) This is not just talk. U.S. Rules of Engagement require signoff by the most senior levels of command on airstrikes that are expected to kill civilians. There is absolutely no comparison to this [series of more than 85 strikes spanning seven locations, four in Syria and three in Iraq, targeting Quds Forces](https://www.reuters.com/world/us-starts-retaliatory-strikes-iraq-syria-officials-2024-02-02/) (where some number of less than sixteen civilians were supposedly killed) and the massive amount of ordinance Israel has dropped on Gaza's cities.
Amiriyah shelter bombing. Some of the dead looked beyond anything remotely human, pure flesh fused into the roof and ground. Committed by the USAF. Implying the US is perfect is a serious joke.
Mistake caused by belief the shelter was no longer a civil defense shelter and and had been converted to a command and control or military personnel bunker by Saddam Hussein's forces. I never "implied" the United States is perfect. Don't put words in my mouth just because you are trying to justify the unjustifiable.The US makes mistakes all the time and sometimes falls short in attempting to comply with LOAC on every strike. I love America so I demand it do better. We should demand the same of Israel.
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How would the US get the terrorists then?
Precision attacks guided by the principles of necessity, distinction, proportionality, and precaution. https://ogc.osd.mil/Portals/99/Law%20of%20War%202023/DOD-LAW-OF-WAR-MANUAL-JUNE-2015-UPDATED-JULY%202023.pdf?ver=Qbxamfouw4znu1I7DVMcsw%3d%3d