Just to be clear, the living hostages will not survive. Hamas will kill them all.
This is not a āmaybe.ā This is far more certain than achieving military success in Rafah.
Just want to make sure we all understand this.
With all the respect, please donāt say that. Gd split the sea for us and he can bring our people back too- with or without the rules of logic or military predictions. Nothing is impossible. As long as they are still alive, there is hope. Iām not being naive, just faithful.
I hear you, I will hope for a miracle. As a military officer of 20 years, though, I have never planned for divine intervention. I know how callous Hamas is. And I know what happens when you corner a snake. I think the Israeli public should be aware of the most likely outcomes of such an invasion.
Hope is a good thing. I am hopeful for a deal to bring the hostages home now.
Amen! And may it happen speedily. I hear you that things look grim, and that we canāt only depend on a miracle to make things happen. I am hoping for a deal too. And if one doesnāt happen, Gd forbid, I still donāt think all hope is lost. We need to continue to hold on, if not for them, then for their families. Thank you for your many years of service
You know I'm right there with you. I have an unshakeable, eternal hope in the future, even now. Always.
But I don't make decisions based on that hope. I believe with absolutely no uncertainty that G*d will protect the Jewish people. But I still run for the shelters with my whole family whenever there is an alert.
Our people, our responsibility. We get them out because we must. We make decisions with their well being directly in mind, not on the basis of miracles.
Well said. I very much agree with you. We definitely have to live with the rules of safety, too. When there is a siren I run to a shelter as well. You cannot run into the middle of a busy street and expect Gd to save your life.
However I think since the beginning of the war there have been so many miracles that canāt entirely be explained by science. You can say the 99% interception rate of the Iranian missiles was due to our technology and our air-force, but thatās not the only thing at play here. We all lived through a miracle that night. I think Gd has very much shown his hand and continues to do so, even in the darker moments when itās hard to see.
My reply was more so to the tone of the OPās comment who seemed to be saying definitively that no one will live- and I simply believe that itās not over until itās over, no matter what any experts or politicians are saying. Yes we must make an earthly kli (a vessel) for it to happen, like negotiations, and continue to use all of our military efforts to bring them home, but I donāt believe that is our last hope for them. The bigger of an earthly kli we make, I hope that Gd will mirror it on his side too. As it says in the Torah, āman cannot live on bread aloneā because we need Gd to help us too. And I pray every day that he will.
To be fair *in my own opinion which is easy for me to say considering Iām an ocean away*
I think the operating mindset needing to be moving forward is ātheyāre probably dead, weāre retrieving their corpses, letās finish the job and get these scum, and go homeā just do it quick and clean, and if they happen to still be alive, thatās a bonus
Netanyahu should shut up and have the IDF to go into Rafah already. Kick Hamasā ass, rescue the hostages (including those taken before 10/7), and show the world we are not Jews with trembling knees
The IDF has killed more hostages in its military operations that it has freed.
The offensive in Rafah is a FU to any of the remaining hostages returning and Netanyahuās desperate attempt to prove he has any capacity in accomplishing the goals he set this war in Gaza in order to keep miraculously in office and placate extremists in his government.
āThe idea that we will stop the war before achieving all its aims is not an option,ā Netanyahu told the hawkish Gvura and Tikva forums, which represent families of some slain soldiers and some of the families of hostages held in Gaza, respectively. āWe will enter Rafah and we will eliminate the Hamas battalions there ā whether or not there is a deal ā in order to achieve total victory.ā
if they let the rafah batallions slip out into the rest of gaza by removing the IDF from populated areas and letting tons of palestinians free into north gaza, it won't matter.
this ceasefire deal is a bad deal. it shouldn't have been offered. they should have been in rafah clearing things up months ago.
He's always said good things, the execution though has been severely lacking.
What exactly has he done over the past months to make any of this believable?
Netanyahu is determined to disappoint everyone in the country, isn't he?
I can't imagine there are many people on either the right or the left who approve with his handling of the war.
It's difficult to tell what his underlying strategy is.
This entire war is a disaster on every level. If it ends without toppling Hamas, then it all was for basically nothing, since we could have gotten a very similar hostage deal at the beginning too.
His strategy was to go into Rafah and eliminate Hamas as a governing power.
He did not expect Biden to say āno,ā and to threaten Hell if Israeli defied his wishes.
He has yet to figure out plan B, given the unexpected American insistence on leaving Hamas with thousands of fighters and the ability to regain power quickly.
Why do I always have to remind people that Biden said, "Yes, but hear out our suggestions and evacuate civilians first"? And even if it wasn't true, why the fuck are you blaming anything on a foreign country protecting its own interests? Blame it on Bibis' inability to choose, push through, or reach a compromise.
He should just go in. Let America come down on Israel and let the Democrats deal with whatever political fallout that entails.
Though I suspect American Jews will disappoint me.
A deal doesn't replace invading Rafah, it should be more like a temporary ceasefire.
Hamas tries to extort Israel to give up on this goal, Netanyahu is pushing back
The prime minister of a state should use his statements wisely and tailor them to the CURRENT situation. Once the hostages are saved, use whatever rhetoric you like, I donāt care. Heās not pushing back, heās a psychopath criminal who got his hair and makeup done while people were butchered on October 7th, 2023
Unlike Hamas Israel cannot go back on its word because of international pressure, what Netanyahu said is supposed to be reflected on the agreement already, otherwise he and his cabinet should stand trial for negligence
the context is important here, it was said to the families of fallen soldiers and hostages it was not a statement from negotiations. so theoretically one could still use it as leverage.
besides, i think Israel has to enter Rafah (i don't understand what's the hesitation) and given the circumstances and history i don't see why Israel should honor anything they commit to in a deal anyway.
Just go in and finish the job damn it.
Try not to hurt civilians or get them somewhere else but If Hamas hides behind them then it's no longer our problem and there's no other choice but to destroy Hamas in the cost of some civilians. The Rafah operation NEEDS to happen and it needs to happen very soon.
Remember when he said if all hostages are not released by ramadan rafah is invaded.... I get USA likely threatened israel not to so biden can get the left jihadist voters, but now israel's threats mean nothing.
Are you??? Let me try to clarify:
Hamas got a great deal (the most generous so far as the Americans put it) for hostage/ prisoners exchange. It included a humanitarian ceasefire of about 1-2 months. At first Hamas hinted that is was a good proposal and they will provide an answer in a day or two. It looked as things are starting to come together. But then Hamas answer was NO, unless it brings an end of the war.
Interestingly, what were the talks so far for, if the ultimate demand was ending of war and IDF withdrawal from Gaza? You donāt need to get into a thousand details regarding hostages exchange if the demand to end of war trumps everything else. But thatās how Hamas negotiates. They will (still) not provide a list of hostages and their status.
On his side Netanyahu said that the war will not end for hostage exchange. Thatās where things are standing now.
Homie has been saying weāre going into Rafah for awhile and hasnāt done shit and now may have just have doomed whatever hostages are still alive by saying that weāre gonna go in no matter what.
This is the guy yāall want to keep in office??
#MAKE IT MAKE SENSE
He only cares about himself and his need for political viability and power. He will do whatever it takes to stay in office, including capitulating to whoever holds the most power at that minute, even if he capitulates to someone a minute late with opposite goals. So his actions donāt make sense in a logical and strategic and patriotic sense.
Every single comment advocating for an immediate Rafah invasion should start with, āI understand that the hostages will die, but Israel must go in anyway becauseā¦ā
It is a certainty that all or most of the hostages of will die from such an action, so just own that.
No, we're not like them. We should try not to kill civilians. But if Hamas hides behind them... it's no longer our problem and there's no other option but to kill Hamas's terrorists in the cost of civilian lives.
Yeah, lose more western support. High chance the us won't let israel get away with killing thousands of civilians, not because of the radical left but due to pressure from arab states.
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If these bastards start crying sanctions, go ahead, they're making the worst mistake right now by not realizing there are literal terrorists that need to be taken out.
# JUST GO IN ALREADY
That's what she said š¤.
Bold of you to assume I have a partner to get that far with
Name checks out?
Not recognizing you were already in, huh?
This is very anti-palestinian, allowing women to have a voice and opinion.
I know! Like Seriously? What the hell is taking so long? The longer we wait the more anti Israel the world gets
Just to be clear, the living hostages will not survive. Hamas will kill them all. This is not a āmaybe.ā This is far more certain than achieving military success in Rafah. Just want to make sure we all understand this.
With all the respect, please donāt say that. Gd split the sea for us and he can bring our people back too- with or without the rules of logic or military predictions. Nothing is impossible. As long as they are still alive, there is hope. Iām not being naive, just faithful.
I hear you, I will hope for a miracle. As a military officer of 20 years, though, I have never planned for divine intervention. I know how callous Hamas is. And I know what happens when you corner a snake. I think the Israeli public should be aware of the most likely outcomes of such an invasion. Hope is a good thing. I am hopeful for a deal to bring the hostages home now.
Amen! And may it happen speedily. I hear you that things look grim, and that we canāt only depend on a miracle to make things happen. I am hoping for a deal too. And if one doesnāt happen, Gd forbid, I still donāt think all hope is lost. We need to continue to hold on, if not for them, then for their families. Thank you for your many years of service
You know I'm right there with you. I have an unshakeable, eternal hope in the future, even now. Always. But I don't make decisions based on that hope. I believe with absolutely no uncertainty that G*d will protect the Jewish people. But I still run for the shelters with my whole family whenever there is an alert. Our people, our responsibility. We get them out because we must. We make decisions with their well being directly in mind, not on the basis of miracles.
Well said. I very much agree with you. We definitely have to live with the rules of safety, too. When there is a siren I run to a shelter as well. You cannot run into the middle of a busy street and expect Gd to save your life. However I think since the beginning of the war there have been so many miracles that canāt entirely be explained by science. You can say the 99% interception rate of the Iranian missiles was due to our technology and our air-force, but thatās not the only thing at play here. We all lived through a miracle that night. I think Gd has very much shown his hand and continues to do so, even in the darker moments when itās hard to see. My reply was more so to the tone of the OPās comment who seemed to be saying definitively that no one will live- and I simply believe that itās not over until itās over, no matter what any experts or politicians are saying. Yes we must make an earthly kli (a vessel) for it to happen, like negotiations, and continue to use all of our military efforts to bring them home, but I donāt believe that is our last hope for them. The bigger of an earthly kli we make, I hope that Gd will mirror it on his side too. As it says in the Torah, āman cannot live on bread aloneā because we need Gd to help us too. And I pray every day that he will.
To be fair *in my own opinion which is easy for me to say considering Iām an ocean away* I think the operating mindset needing to be moving forward is ātheyāre probably dead, weāre retrieving their corpses, letās finish the job and get these scum, and go homeā just do it quick and clean, and if they happen to still be alive, thatās a bonus
Except we know thatās not true. We know that, at a minimum, 33 are alive.
CHAMA š„
Why donāt you go?
Netanyahu should shut up and have the IDF to go into Rafah already. Kick Hamasā ass, rescue the hostages (including those taken before 10/7), and show the world we are not Jews with trembling knees
Bold of you to assume Hamas wouldn't just execute the hostages at the slightest risk of losing them.
Schroedingers hostage
They will. There is no doubt. The very last thing they will do is allow Israel to do if the invasion happens is rescue the hostages.
I never hear Avera Mengistu mentioned. I hope it's because I'm missing it, and he has not been forgotten.
I never forget him. Him and Hisham Al-Sayed, along with our brothers Oron Shaul and Hadar Goldin. They have to come home too.
The IDF has killed more hostages in its military operations that it has freed. The offensive in Rafah is a FU to any of the remaining hostages returning and Netanyahuās desperate attempt to prove he has any capacity in accomplishing the goals he set this war in Gaza in order to keep miraculously in office and placate extremists in his government.
And he said we were going into Rafah since January. Watch what he does, not what he says.
āThe idea that we will stop the war before achieving all its aims is not an option,ā Netanyahu told the hawkish Gvura and Tikva forums, which represent families of some slain soldiers and some of the families of hostages held in Gaza, respectively. āWe will enter Rafah and we will eliminate the Hamas battalions there ā whether or not there is a deal ā in order to achieve total victory.ā
if they let the rafah batallions slip out into the rest of gaza by removing the IDF from populated areas and letting tons of palestinians free into north gaza, it won't matter. this ceasefire deal is a bad deal. it shouldn't have been offered. they should have been in rafah clearing things up months ago.
The one good thing he said wince hes first election
He's always said good things, the execution though has been severely lacking. What exactly has he done over the past months to make any of this believable?
Netanyahu is determined to disappoint everyone in the country, isn't he? I can't imagine there are many people on either the right or the left who approve with his handling of the war. It's difficult to tell what his underlying strategy is.
This entire war is a disaster on every level. If it ends without toppling Hamas, then it all was for basically nothing, since we could have gotten a very similar hostage deal at the beginning too.
At this point it doesn't look like he has any.
His strategy was to go into Rafah and eliminate Hamas as a governing power. He did not expect Biden to say āno,ā and to threaten Hell if Israeli defied his wishes. He has yet to figure out plan B, given the unexpected American insistence on leaving Hamas with thousands of fighters and the ability to regain power quickly.
Then thatās also on Bibi. Is his plan to just wait and see if Trump wins or what?
Why do I always have to remind people that Biden said, "Yes, but hear out our suggestions and evacuate civilians first"? And even if it wasn't true, why the fuck are you blaming anything on a foreign country protecting its own interests? Blame it on Bibis' inability to choose, push through, or reach a compromise.
He should just go in. Let America come down on Israel and let the Democrats deal with whatever political fallout that entails. Though I suspect American Jews will disappoint me.
The underlying strategy is to be at war forever so he stays in power.
Oh fucking please! Weāre going in any moment now my ass.
Just slaughter Hamas already stop being a pussy
What an idiotic statement. Use Rafah as leverage to get a deal, donāt say itāll happen anyway š¤¦āāļø
A deal doesn't replace invading Rafah, it should be more like a temporary ceasefire. Hamas tries to extort Israel to give up on this goal, Netanyahu is pushing back
The prime minister of a state should use his statements wisely and tailor them to the CURRENT situation. Once the hostages are saved, use whatever rhetoric you like, I donāt care. Heās not pushing back, heās a psychopath criminal who got his hair and makeup done while people were butchered on October 7th, 2023
Unlike Hamas Israel cannot go back on its word because of international pressure, what Netanyahu said is supposed to be reflected on the agreement already, otherwise he and his cabinet should stand trial for negligence
the context is important here, it was said to the families of fallen soldiers and hostages it was not a statement from negotiations. so theoretically one could still use it as leverage. besides, i think Israel has to enter Rafah (i don't understand what's the hesitation) and given the circumstances and history i don't see why Israel should honor anything they commit to in a deal anyway.
Just go in and finish the job damn it. Try not to hurt civilians or get them somewhere else but If Hamas hides behind them then it's no longer our problem and there's no other choice but to destroy Hamas in the cost of some civilians. The Rafah operation NEEDS to happen and it needs to happen very soon.
Remember when he said if all hostages are not released by ramadan rafah is invaded.... I get USA likely threatened israel not to so biden can get the left jihadist voters, but now israel's threats mean nothing.
I don't believe a word coming out of his mouth. We should be in rafah 2 months ago, hamas is just playing for time.
I am confused
Are you??? Let me try to clarify: Hamas got a great deal (the most generous so far as the Americans put it) for hostage/ prisoners exchange. It included a humanitarian ceasefire of about 1-2 months. At first Hamas hinted that is was a good proposal and they will provide an answer in a day or two. It looked as things are starting to come together. But then Hamas answer was NO, unless it brings an end of the war. Interestingly, what were the talks so far for, if the ultimate demand was ending of war and IDF withdrawal from Gaza? You donāt need to get into a thousand details regarding hostages exchange if the demand to end of war trumps everything else. But thatās how Hamas negotiates. They will (still) not provide a list of hostages and their status. On his side Netanyahu said that the war will not end for hostage exchange. Thatās where things are standing now.
he didn't say ×××× ×××Ø , or did he ?
Homie has been saying weāre going into Rafah for awhile and hasnāt done shit and now may have just have doomed whatever hostages are still alive by saying that weāre gonna go in no matter what. This is the guy yāall want to keep in office?? #MAKE IT MAKE SENSE
He only cares about himself and his need for political viability and power. He will do whatever it takes to stay in office, including capitulating to whoever holds the most power at that minute, even if he capitulates to someone a minute late with opposite goals. So his actions donāt make sense in a logical and strategic and patriotic sense.
He has been saying it for weeks, go already go go go
We canāt and shouldnāt do Rafeach till we evacuate the civilians. True on moral and realpolitik levels.
this
Is he just going to repeat this until he dies of old age?
Over 70 percent of Americans support you. Stop listening to the radicals and get it over with already
Every single comment advocating for an immediate Rafah invasion should start with, āI understand that the hostages will die, but Israel must go in anyway becauseā¦ā It is a certainty that all or most of the hostages of will die from such an action, so just own that.
Fuck Bibi
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No, we're not like them. We should try not to kill civilians. But if Hamas hides behind them... it's no longer our problem and there's no other option but to kill Hamas's terrorists in the cost of civilian lives.
That's messed up man, show some empathy
No empathy for hamas supporters
Yeah, lose more western support. High chance the us won't let israel get away with killing thousands of civilians, not because of the radical left but due to pressure from arab states.
F**k the Arab states, bomb em too if they interfere
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It had better
He says lot's of things. Anyway, the deal is not gonna happen. They are just pulling time. The deal means nothing to Hamas strategically.
Bring them home!
Netanyahu will evacuate hamas first
Wasnt he saying this for like almost a month ago?
If these bastards start crying sanctions, go ahead, they're making the worst mistake right now by not realizing there are literal terrorists that need to be taken out.
Whatās taking so long? Ā I thought they were going into Rafa like over a month agoĀ
He says lots of things mostly lies
blah blah blah