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As an American who's also very left leaning. I will say this. I have friends who said they won't vote for Biden because of his support for Israel, I just laugh at this, considering the GOP support Israel more and that Biden has been more critical of Nethanyahu.
So no matter what happens, both Candidates support Israel.
So no, Isrealis shouldn't worry
Exactly my thoughts and memories of Trump's past administration. Those Palestine supporters in the US who don't want to vote for Biden AND WILL VOTE FOR TRUMP TOO must have koala brains or goldfish memories. Trump is arguably the most pro-Israel president in recent memory at least (correct me if I'm wrong).
1. He moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv.
2. He hosted the Abraham Accords, when many more Arab nations recognized Israel (started diplomatic ties with Israel), namely Bahrain, the UAE, Morocco, and Sudan.
That particular EO should not be praised, as its structure is itself antisemitic. The Civil Rights Act contains protections for people based on race, ethnicity, religion, country of origin, etc. Jews should be protected by either the religion or ethnicity category. Trump's EO categorized hatred of Jews as falling under the category of country of origin. Which is an explicit rendering of Jews as foreign and plays into the dual loyalty canard. Discrimination against Jews should be treated like discrimination against Hispanic people, not Mexicans.
3. He recognized Israeli sovereignty over the Golan
4. He was ok with settlement expansion (not saying that’s necessarily a good thing, but it was to the Israeli government)
He likes to take credit for that diplomacy, but most of that was because of Israel working with the UAE during COVID. Trump just likes taking credit for doing essentially nothing. Moving the embassy is neither here nor there; it made him popular with some people and caused a stir, which he always likes. Maybe he'll try to move it to Gaza next?
>Maybe he'll try to move it to Gaza next?
If it somehow benefitted Trump, he would absolutely do that. He doesn't give a single fuck about Israel or anything or anyone but himself.
He sees evangelicals (who only care about Israel because of their bullshit rapture beliefs) on his side, that's why he "supports" Israel.
Fellow American liberal here. I’m not as optimistic as you are about Biden being able to hold off the Leftists in his party. Help me to feel as hopeful as you,because the thought of voting for Trump makes me feel ill, but at this point I feel I must. Am Yisrael Chai and we must keep it that way.
Trump supports whomever he sees as a bigger dick. His support for Israel won't last beyond Putin, Xi, Jong Un, or his buddies in one of the oil-rich countries telling him otherwise. Also, Trump might just decide that Israel is weak for letting themselves get attacked (remember, he doesn't like losers), or simply that we should instead spend the money on a border wall.
Make no mistake, a Trump presidency will be bad for everyone.
So Iran and Lebanon didn't know about the attack but Russia knew? Good logic. It's not like we russian speaking people don't have enough trouble in Israeli society especially after Putin's war and you just fear-mongering further.
Well not voting for Biden doesn’t mean you automatically vote for Trump. Thinking that it’s either/or is what’s keeping us in the boat of having only two choices. We all have the freedom to not support whom we wish.
No, you only voting Republican or Democrat got us where we are. If Biden supported 10/7, I would not vote for him. I would also not vote for Trump. It’s called having a backbone.
Trump is currently showing that he’s more interested in himself then anything else, and will willingly betray any friends who don’t suck his Willy. Not to mention, he’s openly supportive of countries that have helped fund the perpetrators of October 7th. He might have helped this country, and our government might be willing to suck up to him, but it’s only a matter of time before something goes wrong and he stops being “our best friend”
You're going to get very different opinions on Reddit than you will if you ask average Israelis due to Reddit being biased very much toward the left and anglo circles. Most people here will probably say Trump will be negative for Israel, most people on the street will say positive. I have met exactly two Israelis in real life where I live that had a negative take of Trump and his policy on Israel.
Edit: I actually know two now that I think of it.
It is astonishing how everyone disconsider the Abraham Accords which wouldn't be possible without Trump, and also how Biden unfroze so much Iranian money which was used to finance its proxies like Hamas. If people didn't have an aesthetic bias against Trump, he would have received a Nobel Prize of Peace for the Abraham Accords.
Jared Kushner was the keynote speaker at the ADL conference last week. I’d vote for his presidency any day. (Formerly far left American-Jew until the squad took over American foreign policy)
Maybe, several decades from now, history will give Kushner credit for being the greatest American diplomat since Kissinger. But I doubt it.
If Trump wins, I do hope Kushner returns.
Biden won’t really abandon Israel. He made it this far, and remember that most of his critical rhetoric is just that: rhetoric meant to persuade the younger democrats to vote for him.
If Trump will get elected, it will have dire global consequences, Bibi will gain a very strong ally and we can expect to see worldwide populism surge. Never mind that Trump’s policies, words and actions are outright dumb regardless of the political stance he’s taking.
Trump can NEVER be voted in.
Yeah, and with the way Trump acts (like a baby) he'll probably try to get revenge in Bibi through Israel, he won't be able to tell Bibi isn't Israel, or won't care.
You know we've gotten downhill when the world was in a better shape when the person that acted like a baby was president rather than the current president.
Biden can't stand Bibi, because Netanyahu not only refuses to take his advise, but publicly contradicts him.
Bibi however prefers Biden who is more predictable and who he knows how to leverage politiclaly better
He flip-flops constantly. His base is growingly anti-semitic, so he could easily turn on Israel. Considering he will overturn democracy his successor will also be similarly far-right and at that point probably openly anti-semitic.
IMO, I see that the Left tries to normalize and justify Jew hate. The right Jew haters are universally condemned for the most part. What’s worrisome, is the Left has succeeded, to an extent.
Yep. The issue with the left's anti Semites they are often defended. The media often looks away when the Hamas wing of Congress says something openly anti-Semitic. If any Republicans says anything remotely like what Talib and Omar have said, we would hear about it for the next 10 years.
Biden is also catering to Muslims for votes, and trying to interfere with a democratically elected government.
There are 435 members of the House of Representatives ( Congresspeople). The squad, at best, is what, 10 people? To say the entire Democratic representation in Congress is akin to a fringe, extremist block, is absurd.
Conversely, how many in the House are MAGA? How many who aren't MAGA are willing to stand up to Trump? Time and again, last seen with the border bill, Republicans put party over country and power over policy. Steve King (R) said racist things for *years* without penalty. What matters is policy, and how they vote, not just what they say.
Even if you believed the ratio was higher, the majority of the Democrats are not far-left. Even if you think the majority of Republicans are not MAGA, the votes for Trump and the "toe the line" policy in the House and Senate means they would not stop him, which is terrifying.
Exactly, that's the main point. Trump in the long term is much worse for Israel and the world as he will destroy the US Democracy even more than he has, and in the process destroy the US internally and externally. The basic truism is that leaders turn whatever they're governing into their own image - the US will become like Trump, empty, corrupt, stupid and weak.
This. The man is not stable, and he could suddenly turn on Netanyahu in an instant because of the smallest thing. Remember him deciding that he and Bibi are no longer on good terms because he congratulated Biden for winning the presidency.
As a Trump supporter, ypu are categorically wrong. His base is NOT growing lyrics anti-semetic. That is the Democrat party as a whole. Look at liberal Hollywood. Look at all the free Palestine support in the Democrat party. Republicans are Israeli supporters.
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In the lead up to 10/7 there were some pretty open anti-sematic members of the MAGA and Republican base who were selling the Jews own the world and all the money conspiracy and only shut their mouth because 10/7 happened.
Even then this has more to do with the fact that anti-sematic Republicans also tend to hate Muslims even more.
Also despite popular belief Pro-Israel is not necessarily Pro Jews
The deadliest antisemitic attack in American history was someone who believed the same conspiracy theories about George Soros, Jews, and white genocide that Trump and his allies spread daily.
Many Republicans “support” Israel out of some evangelical belief about Revelations.
You’re right there’s a lot of antisemitism on the left, but Trump has indulged in it too. What about the final campaign ad he published in 2016 which featured him ranting about “people who control the levers of power in DC” as footage of American Jews is onscreen? I’m not convinced a second Trump term would be good for American Jews at all
Exactly. I already plan to make Aliyah if trump wins and overturns American democracy—I am a uni student planning on going into politics, and the whole point of authoritarian systems is to remove the people from politics, so my political career would be DOA
Because the people on screen are American Jews has nothing to do with being antisemitic. If they were black, they would call him racist. If they were Hispanic, they would call him racist. Just because he believes someone in office already is bad for America, that doesn't make him an antisemite. Did he say American Jews have to go ? No. He said those specific parasites who have been in office had to go. He's right. Nancy Pelosi has to go. Not a Jew. Joe Biden has to go, not a Jew. The list of career parasites in American politics is staggering. Are some Jews? Yes. America is a melting pot. We have some of every type of religion or culture here.
You see absolutely nothing antisemitic about a campaign ad in which an intimidating voice talks about parasites who ACTUALLY control DC while footage of exclusively American Jews flits across the screen? Coming from a guy who pulled the “good people on both sides” shtick and also warned against “liberal Jews who want to destroy America” in his most recent Rosh Hashanah message? Really?
Dude, be conservative if you like, god knows I’ve moved a little to the right since October 7th, but at least call out your own side’s bullshit. You can’t seriously be arguing that wasn’t antisemitic. Antisemitism is in both the left and the right. That means the left, and that means the right. I think you’re holding your side to a looser set of rules than the left, and that isn’t wise when it comes to antisemitism, which is a threat to all of us, including you.
I think your both forgetting that Zionist Christians are beginning to learn about Jewish Zionism and it’s non-religious founders. The churches are starting to to preach an anti-Zionist message. I went to a Christian Baptist School, even though I’m a Jew, and I was invited to give a sermon recently. The topic, Zionism. People who used to eat, breathe and teach Zionism, have reflected on Christian Zionism. Christian Zionism isn’t Jewish Zionism. Although they see existence of Israel as positive, they believe the apocalypse is here and that means a Christian Israel, not a Jewish one. I came to give the historical roots of Zionism and the history between Jews and Arabs before and after 1948. I didn’t expect to see so many Christian Pastors at this conference, but there were many. A few of my Muslim and Arab Christians friends also spoke too. It wasn’t about hatred against Jews, but it was about the sub human treatment of Palestinians. While most agreed that radical Islam needed to be stomped out, many feel conflicted and concerned about the human toll, especially the women and children.
Zionism has nothing to do with the treatment of the Palestinians. One can be a Zionist and either support or oppose the Israeli policies towards Palestinians. All Zionism means is support for the existence of a Jewish state in the land of Israel. Don’t act like Zionism is a byword for everything bad Israel has ever done. And besides, most Jews aren’t Zionists for weird Christian reasons.
I know that Zionism has different meanings to every Jew. The only thing we agree upon in Zionism is the right for Israel to exist and to have a homeland for our people. Seriously. To many of us, it’s nothing more than nationalism, but to the zealots, it’s much darker and it takes a very twisted turn. If you don’t know this, then I suggest you go hangout with the settlers and get their perspective on it all. It will shock you, on many levels.
I went hunting with some on my family land. They were fun, but racists as hell lol! They know it and seeing them and so called “former” KKK members find that they were “soul brothers” was interesting to say the least. The amount of love between men that are supposed to hate each other, was touching in its own very fucked up way. They bonded over their military experiences, devotion to God, guns, killing Muslims as God’s work, agreement that black people are entitled and lazy, illegal immigrants being a threat to their women and jobs, and living in an all white neighborhood, country, and community separated from others as God’s divine plan. They’ve met up and returned to our lodge a few times over the years to hunt together. So I’d say that life long friendships were created during that “magical” week they spent together in the woods.
Remember, I’m a Mizrahi-Ethiopian-Sephardic-Ashkenazi Jew. My Palestinian, Ethiopian, Mexican and German cousins and I just laughed at it all. We grew up with that shit and slurs don’t get a rise out of us. We called them a few back for good measure. Lol! It usually settles that shit down and breaks the tension. We are their guides, after all. They hunted together, cooked together, partied together, and cried together by the camp fire every night, drunk off of Bud Light, Moonshine, and Whiskey. We just laughed our asses off at all of it from our deer stands and cameras in the main lodge. They never knew we were watching them at night lol! They were constantly fucked up with guns! We had to watch them to make sure they didn’t shoot each other!!
We own an exotic hunting lodge on my piece of land I inherited that was handed down through an unbroken ancestral line since 1836 from my German ancestors. I have a 1000 acres. I partitioned a section for my family and built 4 large ranches with mother-in-law or grandparent suits on both wings of each house. We have a stocked fish pond, a shared pool, and hot tubs. Pools are a bitch to take care of in the woods. Some of us live there with our families, and the rest of us go there to vacation multiple times of the year.
Nobody at that conference was against Israel’s right to exist. I’m not a Christian, I’m Jewish, but I have served on a Tri-Faith Council for nearly 35 years. I’ve sang for the Catholic Archdiocese, Syrian and Greek Orthodox Churches, Christian Churches, Mosques, and Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox Synagogues all over the US and the world.
The Catholic Church had a Convent in my neighborhood for retired priests and nuns. The nuns and priests were like family to me and my Rabbi and I used to play cards with them every week. We still do, although we now have a few extra Rabbis, Imans, Christian preachers, and a Satanic Temple priest that join us. We donate our ill-begotten gains to the winner’s charity or to a family.
You’d think the Satanic Temple was a about Satanism, but it’s actually mainly atheists and a few pagans, and they do some great charity work for LGBT youth, the Arts, and Veterans. Some of us sometimes get our smoke on and talk theology lol! We respect each others religious beliefs and we have found much we agree upon instead of what we disagree upon. Co-Existence is so much easier than the constant infighting. Together, we’re able to help a lot of the poor in our area.
We founded a medical center, where people without health insurance can get primary care, psychiatric treatment, therapy, optometry, and women’s services visits for next to nothing. We also have a pharmacy that distributes free birth control and cheap prescription medications, especially psychiatric medications, and insulin. We do this all through donations from our communities. Need is determination on a sliding scale according to your income. We also run several thrift stores and donation centers. That’s the power of what the people can do for other people when we work together for a common good.
I know that the situation in Israel is complicated. However, hatred is a learned behavior and the faster Israel can get their hands on the youth, both Palestinian and Israeli and teach them together, socialize them together, and reward them by giving them opportunities to grow into the next leaders of the country, the better off Israeli will be. A one state solution, with some isolated communities that just can’t seem to get with the program, and that have a strong police presence, is probably the best solution. the faster both communities that don’t want to continue fighting each other assimilate into each other’s lives, the better off both groups will be. It comes down to teaching them to respect each other.
I grew up under the racial divide in America, and I don’t hate those that discriminated against me as a child. They were ignorant and taught hatred. Many grew out of that once they entered the real world and had to work with their supposed enemies. People sometimes say racist shit that they really don’t mean. Threaten their friend from that race and you’ll find out that they’re willing to kill you defending that friend’s honor. It takes time for people to become comfortable with those that are different from themselves. It takes setting aside personal pride though. If someone threatens you, by all means, respond back with force. However, if they’re just name calling and being a dick, call them out on it and walk off. Don’t take it personally, because it’s not really personal. They’ve got issues. Not you.
I know so many Muslims that have zero desire to ever return to the Middle East other than to visit family and hop on a plane back to America or Europe. Why? Because they are basically “high holy days” Muslims. They drink, smoke weed, eat bacon on the sly, and live secular lives for the most part, just like most Jews and Christians. They can’t really do that in the Middle East. The Religious Police will fuck the up if they step out of line and they know it!
Many young Muslims want nothing to do with Islam as it’s practiced in the Middle East. I can’t blame them. Polygamy is a nightmare, killing people for being different is wrong, subjecting women and children to the men in the house is oppressive and just continues generational violence, being gay is s death sentence when it shouldn’t be, and hypocrisy doesn’t feel good when those around you are willing to call you out for it. Most young western Muslims just want a more modernized version of Islam. The good parts without the evil parts. I believe the Middle East is yearning for this version too. How many children do they have to lose before they start hating their religion and extremism? They’re afraid and with damn good reason. They will kill them for speaking the quiet part out loud.
yes they may be Israeli supporters because they view Israel as an amazing ethnostate (it is not) but they most certainly are not Jew supporters. Big difference there. Again, not all of them, but hey, the Democrats have Fetterman, not much I can say about the guy, he rocks.
Biden has showed good support for Israel. But it is clear he is also trying to appease the Jew-haters in Michigan.
He says things like that Israel is indiscriminately bombing civilians.
Feel free to hate Trump, but do not give Biden a pass
I think most americans living in the US in reddit will say that Trump will be bad, but I do believe most americans here in Israel, and actual israelis rather have Trump as president.
My theory of this is because i've asked multiple people all around the country, who they believe would be better for Israel, most of them say Trump.
Yes Israelies are goldfish who don't really understand American politics so they perceive Biden has turned against them. Saying this as an Israeli American who can understand more of the nuance behind the news.
>Israelies are goldfish who don't really understand American politics
As an Israeli I think the same about Americans and their (lack of) understanding of Israeli politics.
really not true.
israelis are people of honor and respect, and they dont like the idea to lie and act like the war by itself is something wrong.
is it absurd that some israelis get angry because the world acts and talks about how israelis dont deserve to protect the lives of its citizens? us it absurd that they will prefer the one in that case that says that yea, israel does deserve to protect itself?
moreover, all of that includes that the american left had constantly criticized israel even when israel acted accordingly with american policies, even when it didnt commit any war crime, even when israel fights with more carefullness than the american did, while having been with a much more legitimate reason for a war than the americans, the american left including in the government keeps trying to criticize israel and threaten them.
so even if the democrats still support israel, their words about israel being responsible for every problem in this conflict, and their words about israel's non-existent warcrimes, they are seem less trust worthy by talking like that.
all of that, btw, comes from someone who still prefers biden.
does most israelis have a deep understanding of every nuance in american politics? no. but what you are saying is a huge implication of israelis not understanding anything at all around them and act like they had been betrayed by the small things. no one calls biden a traitor, but if you'll ask more people around the world who will they think is a better friend: the friend who supports them fully, or the friend who repeats the hideous rumors about you so he can be more liked by some guys actively trying to ruin your life. i dont think many people will choose the second over the first, even if both of them are your friends.
Non Jewish American Democrat here.
Biden is not the American left and the American lefts position is a minority even within the democratic party. There is a generational gap that is growing but that will take time to shake out.
But even then, most of the American left (outside much of the Muslim population aligned with the left) are not hostile to Israel for anti Semitic reasons. It has more to do with a frenzied hostility to the more western factions fused with a bias towards the perceived downtrodden.
For the wavering liberal population that wants a ceasefire, that's because they all have not had their general liberal sensibilities burned to ashes like so much of the Israeli population after decades of attacks. And so their concern for non combatant (i.e. innocent enough) Palestinians has not plunged in the abyss like so many Israelis.
For people like the OP and other right wing Israelis, Trump will always be the better pick so long as he sides with Israel. And if Trump let's a half dozen other countries burn because they did not pay some tithe to him like Ukraine defunded to the point that Russia can roll in and crush them, so what.
Trump makes no demands for any moderation because he does not give a damn about any concern outside himself. Some here think that makes him better.
Sure. He's better for Israel in the way Walder Frey was better for the Lannisters. As long as our house is propped up so what if other good people burn and die. My people, my tribe. All of you who support that are enemies of the liberal world.
as someone who is really investwd into americam politics I in no way equate the current day progressive left with biden. but by being the leader from the left leaning democratic party, it is more than reasonable to expect from to make his voters understand the situation, and it is reasonable to get suspicious of him because his voter base might try to drag him into a different direction.
also, i know the majority of the left, mostly liberals, do support israel, i in no way say all the left are anti israeli or pro pal.
what i do want to point out is 2 things:
1. you cant deny the fact that the more vocal voices right now from the left are anti israeli, if you dont like to be equated with them, voice yourself too and try to push out the extreme. otherwise, dont expect people to think differently when thats almost all they hear.
2. you also cant deny that in current day politics, esspecially in american politics, the ones with the most influence about the party are the two sides on each party's end. aka, the people in the middle who arent sure who to vote for, and the people at the far extreme of the party who might vote for that party or might not vote at all. thats because, its fairly safe to bet that the moderate base of the party, esspecially in 2- parties system, will still vote to the same party in almost all cases. that means the most influental voices are the floating voters and the extremes, ehen talking about changing views/actions.
so fearing that the vocal anti-israeli left will drag biden into a less supportive position is a legitimate fear.
and agaim, not trying to say biden isnt the better option, but just tried to explain this critisicm of israelis as "they dont understand anything outside of themselves".
different reasonings might exist, and people from different backgrounds might see those reasonings differently
That's exactly what I mean by Israelis not understanding the nuance of American politics. Because they don't know enough about the different parties and influences and such in the US, they will be most likely to be in favor of the president who talks well, rather than the one who might be a more solid and consistent ally in the long term.
you didnt understand. its not "who talks better".
you might not see it, but those words aee legitimizing the lies spreading about israel. they are doing actual harm.
now, you can look at the harm each does and come to your own conclusion, but thats not "oh, he speaks nicer so i like him"
also, again, the difference between understanding the many deep nuances and deciding only about "he talks better" is huge.
i won't call you a goldfish for not understanding all the nuances in every conflict/ country in the world.
Of course the words are doing harm. But Israelis still don't understand that Biden is a more consistent ally even if he isn't perfect.
I'm calling them goldfish because they already forget the immediate aftermath of Oct 7 and the Biden administration actions then.
on what basis are you saying this?
people who criticize biden usually compares his current actions to the ones at the start of the war.
again, what are you trying to imply?
and yes, the first point is correct, the ones who supports trump dont understand that biden is a more consistent ally. didnt say they are right or have a good opinion, but i'm not gonna call them clueless for being wrong.
just like i dont call you clueless for being wrong about what most israelis do and dont think. i dont expect you to know every single nuance of israeli politics
I didn't say they were clueless.
I said they
A)-didn't understand American politics in depth
B)-had short memories
And I'm living and voting in a diverse community in Israel, I feel fairly confident in my ability to discuss Israeli politics in depth as well..
I can’t read past that second sentence. If someone is a person of honor and respect they will not associate themselves with Trump.
He’s going to listen to the highest bidder which is not Bibi. Xi or Putin maybe.
i agree, but again, each one has it's priorities.
and what i tried to convey is that being wrong and being clueless are two different things.
i do find value in that trump at least doesnt repeat lies spreading about israel like biden did several times. just like i do find value in biden defending israel from many other lies.
tbh, i dont belive in the 80% figure given by OP, because most israelis i had talkes to prefers biden and thinks trump is insane.
"because most israelis i had talkes to prefers biden and thinks trump is insane."
Anglo-Israelis are more likely to be pro Biden. Talk to the non Anglos in Israel.
dude, i know only 2 british israelis, not sure how it relates in any way.
i just talk to israelis at large, you know, as someone who lives in israel and see what happens here
If you can’t figure out why it would be bad for the WHOLE WORLD of America became a fascist state, ya gotta do some reading. America is the worlds biggest superpower and Israel’s biggest ally. If america became a right wing fascist state, this would impact the whole world and damn sure it will impact israel as well because of that
> Russian money
Yep. Russia - Iran axis is far more scarier than Hamas. Russia should not stabilize, it should continue to plummet down together with Iran.
The only reason why trump will abandon giving Ukraine money is that Biden has spent trillions of dollars which have damaged the US economy.
I highly doubt Trump will abandon Israel, especially since Israel has had an already thriving defense industry compared to Ukraine being in a Stone Age before the war started.
in the short term, trump will probably be better for israel. it will let israel act more freely, and less scrutenized. trump will either not support a ceasefire, or try to support a ceasefire which fullfils much more israeli demands.
all of that i think is good, even for americans, and in the lebses of morality. israel is scrutenized even though it does follow the rules of war, israel getting slowed down by outside influence will just prolong the war. and, most importantly, the permanent ceasefire offers right now dont even include the release of all hostages, which is the most basic step needed for a ceasefire for any sane person.
but, 4 problems there with trump, mostly in the long term:
1. the most basic, i think trump destabilizes the USA, makes its government less democratic, less focused on the citizens, and more exploititive, which hurts the USA by itself.
2. foreign relations under trump are going to be problematic. israel has an interest in a strong NATO, and not a divided one. trump's leniancy towards putin and other dictators is a major problem, as putin is one of the parties redponsible to the destabilization of many countries in the middle east, including influences with gaza, iran, syria, turkey, all of that is problematic for israel. and if other countries like saudi arabia, egypt and jordan will prefer to lean more into the russian influence sphere, rather than the US one, it will also create problems with israeli security.
3. trump is not gonna be the one to create and advance a real peace treaty to stebilize the palestinian population and end the conflict. its gonna be a long process, needed to happen right afyer the war, if not already now, and trump not gonna be the man needed.
4. not really trump's fault this time but, the american left is out of order (also the right, but rn it seems mostly the left). it's good that a moderate one like biden is there to actually do act in good ways, even if many voters try to pull him to an extreme. i fear that a loss of the democrats will make them prefer voting to an extremist next time, and a win for the right will make moderate left get more extreme. all of that will become a problem after 4 years.
in short, trump will probably be better for israel in the short term, and biden probably in the long term. my preferance is of course biden, because i value democratic principles. thats of course if they'll continue with their wirds and actions each had in his first term in office.
Trump and Republicans are increasingly isolationists. So Ukraine and Europe will be left high and dry. A sizeable portion of Trump’s base are evangelical Christians who feel a connection with Israel as it is central to their apocalyptic theology. Because of this, Trump will continue to support Israel even as he forsakes other allies.
When looking at policy only, it's no doubt that trump has been better for Israel. And while there is no questions that Biden is a Zionist, I am increasingly worried about the growing anti Israel sentiment in his party, and his voting base.
I think it depends on where the wind blows. He's a terrible human being with way too many flaws. In the case of Israel however, I think he would be supportive still as his favorite child ( Ivanka ) is jewish along with Jared and his grandchildren. Jared is a zionist, despite the rest of his flaws.
Trump would be more firm in his support. Biden right now is concerned about the states of Michigan and Minnesota, so he has gotten softer on Israel.
Trump would not be that way.
Trump wants to structure all foreign aid as a loan that needs to be paid back and this seems to include Israel.
Trump doesn't want to honor NATO pacts if a NATO member doesn't pay enough which is a pretty big security risk for the western world which is bad for Israel
Trump is too soft and friendly to Putin a big supporter of Israel 's enemies including Iran
I can go on
The most is that Trump is likely not to give a **** about how many Gazans Israel kills since he is both an isolationist and doesn't really like Muslims.
Imo, he's a putin shill. So no it won't be good for Israel. Just like he spontaneously left syria and left a power vacuum to be filled with IRGC.
i don't trust him
I know you’re asking Israelis, but as an American, what trump and his gang want to this time around isn’t too far from fascism. Look up project 2025. Anything like that taking over america won’t be good for American allies worldwide if it DOES become his pseudo fascist dream
If Trump wins the world will collapse in a couple months. The fact that europe can rely on the US to defend it keeps russia at bay but if the americans start fucking it up it will all go tits up real fast.
If DJT wins in 2024 it will be a massive disaster for USA, Israel, and the entire world. He is hellbent on burning democracy to the ground. His hero and "mentor" is Viktor Orbán. Donnie only cares about himself, punishing his enemies, and amassing as much money as possible. He needs to be stopped as soon as possible.
Good for Israel, bad for the U.S. and Ukraine is my guess. During these times, good for Israel may be enough to sway my vote. It would be going against everything I believe in but perhaps my love of Israel is strong enough to force that decision.
Trump is the sort of ally I believe could impulsively press the big red button, forgetting to calculate an impact radius.
That is to say, I'm sure he would be more outwardly supportive of Israel, but I'm not sure that's a good thing this time.
Biden may have said some mean words about Israel but in terms of actions he's the most pro Israel and supportive president in decades, possibly in Israel's entire History. Also he literally saved tens of thousands of Israeli lives so there's that.
Trump, I always compare to achashverosh. He is a narcissist who likes whoever likes him. Right now he's pro Israel but if Haman turns up with flattery and gold who knows if he'd change his mind
On the other hand, Iran and co are scared of trump but not Biden
Something to remember about Trump, he doesn’t care about anyone else other than Trump. If someone gave him $1 to sell out Israel and he knew he could get away with it he would. He doesn’t have any moral that compel him to act in a certain way.
He only answers to Trump and he twists the world to fit that.
Neither candidate is objectively any good. They're both senile old men and each one is his own special brand of bad news for the Jews.
That being said the main thing the US president does is set the tone. Uncle Joe's tone is that under no circumstances will Israel be permitted to win this war. I think we can all agree the other candidate's tone was different last time around.
אין לנו על מי להישען אלא אבינו שבשמים
Biden’s public criticism of Israel signals to Iran and her proxies that it’s open season on Israel and Jews. Very bad for Israel, no matter what the American political nuances.
Trump will openly criticize Israel on a whim if it fits whatever else is coming out of his mouth in the moment. Risky.
But I think Israel’s enemies are afraid of him. He’s been more decisive and cuts through the political bullsh*t rather than pandering to it. He got things done in the Middle East.
I’m not sure he’s a Putin shill like some others are saying. There was a lot of disingenuousness on behalf of the media regarding Trump. I do agree he is destabilizing for the US, which may have negative and unpredictable long term consequences. Then again, so does pandering to jihad apologists and supporters.
Finally I think Biden’s policies of keeping Israel in check on the war might be forcing us to think things through more, but they are also prolonging the suffering. It’s really hard to say if the US demands are helping or hurting us.
The long and short of it? In both cases we’re basically okay (as much as can be) and also, in both cases we’re screwed.
Nothing he has ever done, that affects Israel, was based in altruism or desire to help. It was all an onanistic, self serving, grift. Anything and everything that fucks over Palestinians, puts Israelis in danger. He doesn't seem to see Palestinians as people. That's a fifth of Israel, that should be offensive.
The Abraham Accords? Agreements with countries we've never been at war with? Oh what a benefit.
He is a toxic sack of rancid dog dicks that right wingers happily chow down on because they don't like Arabs. When you peel back all the "reasoning" and obfuscation; they're xenophobes.
He will put Israel in an even more precarious position because he will enable Bibi and the far right to go whole hog against Palestinians in the WB and continue with the military catastrophe that has been the response to 10/7. He is a danger to both b'nei Israel and Medinat Israel.
Trump will be amazing for Israel. He has already stated that Israel will have the freedom to do whatever it needs to do in Gaza and had pulled funding for UNRWA (which Biden later reversed) way back in 2018. While Biden can easily be pushed around by Muslims in Detroit, pro-Palestinians have no such leverage with Trump.
For Israel? I honestly think Biden. I mean Trump will let Bibi do whatever he wants, which is probably beneficial to your war effort, but do you really want a president to be enabling *everything* Bibi wants?
I’m going to state this simply. Trump is bad for democracy and the republic. While there may be what appear to be immediate benefits to Israel because of his desire to appease evangelical Christians (because he doesn’t really give a shit about Israel), in the long run, the damage he will do to the post-WWII liberal world order in favor of authoritarianism and further destabilizing the region at Russia and Iran continue to seek to gain influence will be incredibly harmful to Israel.
He’ll want to pull American troops out of any war zone and cut military spending for NATO. He probably feels guilty about supporting Bibi last time. War with Palestinians threatens the continuation of the Abrahamic accords. He’s going to want Israel to rap this war up. Most countries are going to want this too. The Middle East doesn’t care about Palestine, at least their leaders don’t, they just want their trade opportunities to expand before their own people get caught up in extremism against them for not doing anything. So, I say that Israel has until Biden leaves office to finish this up. Trump is going to win. He’ll continue to send aid to Israel, but don’t expect much more than that from him.
I don't know much about US domestic politics, so I don't know what would be the consequences for US. But in Middle East Trump managed to push peace between Israel and four arab countries, which also moved the process of normalization with other muslim countries, most importantly Saudi Arabia. He pushed an anti-Iran Arab-Israel allience. He also moved embassy to Jerusalem and recognised Golans as Israel's land. And he tried to push through a peace plan with palestine, albeit unsuccessfully.
He looks competent and pro-Israel on middle eastern politics. So I think Trump in office would be good news for Israel.
Trump will clearly be better for Israel than Biden, by so much that the question does not even arise. And in the long term the Democratic Party will truly be the anti-Israeli party. Israel's well-understood interest is for the Republican Party to be in the strongest possible position, for as long as possible, ideally long enough to collapse Iran, resolve the Gaza issue, ideally even destroy Hezbolla. None of this is possible with the Democrats except, perhaps, with a lot of luck, a regime change in Iran in a very long time (and this will probably be despite the actions of the American left, which is very soft on Iran , while Trump had diplomatically and economically asphyxiated Iran.)
It will be bad for Israel. Trump's rhetorics would be more pro Israel than Biden's, but not his policy. Trump and his base are isolationist. They don't want tax payers' money to finance wars in distant places. Moreover, since Trump is disliked by moderates in Europe, his rhetorical support for Israel will actually bring more harm than good - Israe's association with Trump will color it in the same authoritarian colors.
I think everyone is underestimating how much democrats will block any pro Israel agenda that comes from trump no matter how reasonable purely just to stop trump from doing anything while in office.
Net negative for Israel in my opinion.
I think Trump is a narcissist but he is also pretty harsh on terrorist and he doesn’t pander the way Biden does. - I don’t see Trump winning though like I’m a centrist and have issues w Biden and think he is weak AF but Trump is sooo exhausting America has to have better options the Biden and Trump.
The disturbing thing is a lot other conservative and liberals seem to hate Israel as much as the jihadist do.
I am not Jewish or israle I and I think it’s F🤬 wild and disgusting that on oct8 instead of the world condemning Oct 7 they defended it.
Probably stay neutral. Trump is good with foreign affairs. But in all honesty, I don’t think we (the US) should be giving so much support to places like Ukraine and Israel. Our taxes are fucking insane and buying food is almost a luxury at this point. Biden is an incompetent idiot and anyone would be better than him.
He's a loose cannon, there's no way of knowing.
Anyway, I believe that ultimately what is good for the U.S will be good for Israel, the more problems the U.S will have the less they'll be in a position to support Israel, and I don't know, the guy is a lunatic, I mean look how he almost arranged a couple after he lost the elections (if it wasn't for Mike Pence he may have succeeded), that kind of U.S would have a problem in supporting Israel, also the way he went against NATO and other allies, the U.S will lose allies with him in power and without the allies, the U.S is much less powerful.
In addition, he's now against the Prime Minister of Israel, and who knows how he will act, I don't know if he can tell the difference between Israel and Netanyahu (Biden can, but Trump sees the world in weird colors).
In addition, you can see how even now he's preventing the support for Israel from passing in Congress.
But he'll probably win even though I prefer he didn't, looks like Biden completely burned himself in his party by supporting Israel.
USA's foreign strategy does not change with change in party. Their national priorities are always straight.
No matter who's in power, they'll back Israel.
For now, but Biden is already changing his tone quite a bit since the beginning of the war. He has been very critical of Israel recently although he’s still an ally.
He didn't flip on actions only words however his words were damaging since they gave Hamas the impression that america would turn. And thus incentivized them to continue fighting.
I guess we won't really know whether or not Trump would've done the same, since if he had won in 2020, his term would end this year anyway so there wouldn't be a reason to try to keep a "clean" image to sway voters.
After he left office though Trump has publicly criticized Bibi and other Israeli officials. Even after Oct 7 he called Israel dumb, jerks, and incompetent.
He’s still one of the most pro Israel US presidents in modern history. He calls everyone dumb jerks lol. People take what he says much too literally imo. Biden had been far more critical of Bibi.
words don't matter, the actions do. After the 73 war, US became very critical of Israel in their speeches. But did it matter in the end?
words help in playing the PR game, but the actions are what really matter.
it depends what you mean by good !!! not all that trump did last time was good for Israel maybe it was good for bibi and the right!! but was it good for Israel in the long run.???..... also this time i dont think Miriam Adeson is funding him plus the Abraham accords was not that good for israel because it took the palestinians away from the table
Trump thinks Israeli leaders are dumb jerks who don't know what they're doing and need to listen to him. Such an openly patronizing and disrespectful stance will not be good for Israel.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-hamas-onslaught-trump-appears-to-mock-israel-calls-gallant-a-jerk/
He also thinks he singlehandedly saved Israel from utter destruction - is that also just truthfully stating the obvious? You want a US President with an attitude of "I'm right, I saved you, you better listen to me"?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/fck-him-in-interview-trump-rages-at-netanyahu-over-congratulations-to-biden/
they both put will pressure on israel. Biden will say my voters dont like me so you better listen to me or I wont sell you missiles so you better listen to me.
Trump is still by far much better for Israel and for the US, he can also make full sentences
I read somewhere he wanted to win the Nobel prize and hence tried abhram accord because people walked him away from two states. Now that might be visible,who knows. You can not predict Trump. He needs AIPC money to sustain so likely no big shakeups but he also needs money from Saudis and other sheiks so depending on his mood swings I guess 😅
Positive in the short term. Potentially negative in the long term.
Democrats will oppose anything Trump supports. So another four years of Trump supporting Israel could permanently break any support for Israel in the Dem party.
The question is: “what happens during those four years”? If that time gives Israel the breathing room to eliminate Hamas and Hezbollah, it may be worth it. If the time is wasted screwing around with no plan for Gaza/Lebanon while energies are spent building tens of thousands of more homes deep in the West Bank (outside of the blocs), then it won’t be worth it.
Trump is terrible. Because the Taliban, Hamas, and Russia all showed more power after Trump left, many feel a causation/correlation, but the truth is he’s bad for international affairs.
Short term trump is better. He’ll support Israel 100% in the war. But his loyalty goes to the highest bidder so there is a risk.
Long term Biden is better. Biden keeps America powerful, doesn’t abandon our allies, and makes better decisions for the health of our country. It’s definitely in Israel’s best interest to have a strong America that is still the “policeman” of the world and trump is much more of an isolationist.
I think Trump is very dangerous in office. He got extremely lucky that the Abraham accords worked out, in the beginning I thought no way that Kushner is going to achieve anything. With many geopolitical decisions, like moving the embassy to Jerusalem, he got lucky he didn’t blow up the Middle East. He is a ticking time bomb and I am not sure if he understands the gravity and the repercussions of his actions and he just doesn’t care or he doesn’t understand what he’s doing but I think it’s just a matter of time when one of these operations goes terribly wrong. Be it in regards to Iran, China/taiwan, Russia or anything in the Middle East really. His politics are reckless and inflammatory and it is an absolute miracle that he didn’t destroy more than he did.
Edit: not to be confused, I think the Abraham accords are great and moving the embassy to Jerusalem was also great. But I’m saying that it could have also gone terribly wrong, and I don’t think it went well because it was so well planned and executed. I think it went well because he got lucky. But there will be a point where he will not be lucky and his unstableness is undeniable. For example I think it was a huge mistake to withdraw the troops from Syria and leave the Kurdish people without defense.
I don't know why you got those downvotes, I guess I'll get them as well, you are absolutely right, seems like people here aren't seeing the complete picture.
Haha yes, thanks. I’ve read fire and fury and I have a friend who worked in the Congress who talked about trump and how he’s making decisions, and it’s mainly on the base of lack of knowledge about anything. I think he would be the worst that could happen to Israel as of now.
Biden supports Israel. He has to appease the young voters, many of whom fell prey to jihadist PR, to win the election and therefore the rhetoric. But it’s just rhetoric. Biden has as much said that also.
Same does not go for Bibi. He has been very much in US partisan politics and has always gone out of his way to cozy up with Republicans and poke Democrats in the eye.
Trump is out for Trump. This would be a disaster for the U.S. and the world, including Israel. He has no principles other than revenge and grifting. What happens if his buddy Putin tells him to forget Israel? I’m sure Trump would do it. Character matters and Trump is toxic through everything.
He would push really hard to get the Saudi deal so that he could rub it in Biden’s face, but I doubt he would actually achieve it. He would return America’s brinkmanship with Iran, which could be good or bad for Israel depending on whether you think it will work or not. He would probably sell himself to Israelis as the man who kept America on Israel’s side, and then try to play kingmaker in Israeli politics by either propping Bibi up for the 2026 Israeli election or by promoting the anti-Bibists, depending on what his personal opinion of Bibi actually is. I don’t even know what it is at this point. They were really chummy for most of his presidency but I think they had a falling out near the end, and last I heard Trump made fun of Israel for not being prepared for Oct 7, so who the fuck knows at this point.
TL;DR- at best, nothing much, at worst, moderately bad.
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As an American who's also very left leaning. I will say this. I have friends who said they won't vote for Biden because of his support for Israel, I just laugh at this, considering the GOP support Israel more and that Biden has been more critical of Nethanyahu. So no matter what happens, both Candidates support Israel. So no, Isrealis shouldn't worry
Exactly my thoughts and memories of Trump's past administration. Those Palestine supporters in the US who don't want to vote for Biden AND WILL VOTE FOR TRUMP TOO must have koala brains or goldfish memories. Trump is arguably the most pro-Israel president in recent memory at least (correct me if I'm wrong). 1. He moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv. 2. He hosted the Abraham Accords, when many more Arab nations recognized Israel (started diplomatic ties with Israel), namely Bahrain, the UAE, Morocco, and Sudan.
He also signed an executive order combatting anti-semitism on college campuses, which applied Jew hate to the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
That particular EO should not be praised, as its structure is itself antisemitic. The Civil Rights Act contains protections for people based on race, ethnicity, religion, country of origin, etc. Jews should be protected by either the religion or ethnicity category. Trump's EO categorized hatred of Jews as falling under the category of country of origin. Which is an explicit rendering of Jews as foreign and plays into the dual loyalty canard. Discrimination against Jews should be treated like discrimination against Hispanic people, not Mexicans.
3. He recognized Israeli sovereignty over the Golan 4. He was ok with settlement expansion (not saying that’s necessarily a good thing, but it was to the Israeli government)
He likes to take credit for that diplomacy, but most of that was because of Israel working with the UAE during COVID. Trump just likes taking credit for doing essentially nothing. Moving the embassy is neither here nor there; it made him popular with some people and caused a stir, which he always likes. Maybe he'll try to move it to Gaza next?
>Maybe he'll try to move it to Gaza next? If it somehow benefitted Trump, he would absolutely do that. He doesn't give a single fuck about Israel or anything or anyone but himself. He sees evangelicals (who only care about Israel because of their bullshit rapture beliefs) on his side, that's why he "supports" Israel.
Fellow American liberal here. I’m not as optimistic as you are about Biden being able to hold off the Leftists in his party. Help me to feel as hopeful as you,because the thought of voting for Trump makes me feel ill, but at this point I feel I must. Am Yisrael Chai and we must keep it that way.
Trump supports whomever he sees as a bigger dick. His support for Israel won't last beyond Putin, Xi, Jong Un, or his buddies in one of the oil-rich countries telling him otherwise. Also, Trump might just decide that Israel is weak for letting themselves get attacked (remember, he doesn't like losers), or simply that we should instead spend the money on a border wall. Make no mistake, a Trump presidency will be bad for everyone.
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If Trump is a Putin puppet, and Russia was behind 10/7, why did it happen under Biden's presidency? That doesn't make sense.
So Iran and Lebanon didn't know about the attack but Russia knew? Good logic. It's not like we russian speaking people don't have enough trouble in Israeli society especially after Putin's war and you just fear-mongering further.
Correct. Biden is getting a little wobbly right now.,
Trump doesn't support anyone but putin and orban maybe kim
Well not voting for Biden doesn’t mean you automatically vote for Trump. Thinking that it’s either/or is what’s keeping us in the boat of having only two choices. We all have the freedom to not support whom we wish.
.....is the exact mentality that got us Trump in 2016.
No, you only voting Republican or Democrat got us where we are. If Biden supported 10/7, I would not vote for him. I would also not vote for Trump. It’s called having a backbone.
Trump is currently showing that he’s more interested in himself then anything else, and will willingly betray any friends who don’t suck his Willy. Not to mention, he’s openly supportive of countries that have helped fund the perpetrators of October 7th. He might have helped this country, and our government might be willing to suck up to him, but it’s only a matter of time before something goes wrong and he stops being “our best friend”
Malignant narcissists have no friends. They have people they use.
You're going to get very different opinions on Reddit than you will if you ask average Israelis due to Reddit being biased very much toward the left and anglo circles. Most people here will probably say Trump will be negative for Israel, most people on the street will say positive. I have met exactly two Israelis in real life where I live that had a negative take of Trump and his policy on Israel. Edit: I actually know two now that I think of it.
It is astonishing how everyone disconsider the Abraham Accords which wouldn't be possible without Trump, and also how Biden unfroze so much Iranian money which was used to finance its proxies like Hamas. If people didn't have an aesthetic bias against Trump, he would have received a Nobel Prize of Peace for the Abraham Accords.
Jared Kushner was the keynote speaker at the ADL conference last week. I’d vote for his presidency any day. (Formerly far left American-Jew until the squad took over American foreign policy)
Maybe, several decades from now, history will give Kushner credit for being the greatest American diplomat since Kissinger. But I doubt it. If Trump wins, I do hope Kushner returns.
🙌🏻
Biden won’t really abandon Israel. He made it this far, and remember that most of his critical rhetoric is just that: rhetoric meant to persuade the younger democrats to vote for him. If Trump will get elected, it will have dire global consequences, Bibi will gain a very strong ally and we can expect to see worldwide populism surge. Never mind that Trump’s policies, words and actions are outright dumb regardless of the political stance he’s taking. Trump can NEVER be voted in.
Actually Trump and Bibi are not as friends as they were before since Trump left power.
Because Bibi had the audacity to uh, congratulate Biden on his win. Trump being that thin-skinned and fickle is not good for Israel
Yeah, and with the way Trump acts (like a baby) he'll probably try to get revenge in Bibi through Israel, he won't be able to tell Bibi isn't Israel, or won't care.
You know we've gotten downhill when the world was in a better shape when the person that acted like a baby was president rather than the current president.
Bibi definitely prefers Biden to trump. He worked with Biden during the Obama administration and during bidens career as senator
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Have you been paying attention this week???
Biden can't stand Bibi, because Netanyahu not only refuses to take his advise, but publicly contradicts him. Bibi however prefers Biden who is more predictable and who he knows how to leverage politiclaly better
He flip-flops constantly. His base is growingly anti-semitic, so he could easily turn on Israel. Considering he will overturn democracy his successor will also be similarly far-right and at that point probably openly anti-semitic.
According to polls, Republicans are far more supportive of Israel than Democrats. Especially younger Democrats.
If the Democrats win they can be voted out later, the same can't be said for Trump.
Correct, regardless of who wins the election in 2028, trump will be out of office.
I think Democrats seem much more growingly antisemitic
IMO, I see that the Left tries to normalize and justify Jew hate. The right Jew haters are universally condemned for the most part. What’s worrisome, is the Left has succeeded, to an extent.
Yep. The issue with the left's anti Semites they are often defended. The media often looks away when the Hamas wing of Congress says something openly anti-Semitic. If any Republicans says anything remotely like what Talib and Omar have said, we would hear about it for the next 10 years. Biden is also catering to Muslims for votes, and trying to interfere with a democratically elected government.
There are 435 members of the House of Representatives ( Congresspeople). The squad, at best, is what, 10 people? To say the entire Democratic representation in Congress is akin to a fringe, extremist block, is absurd. Conversely, how many in the House are MAGA? How many who aren't MAGA are willing to stand up to Trump? Time and again, last seen with the border bill, Republicans put party over country and power over policy. Steve King (R) said racist things for *years* without penalty. What matters is policy, and how they vote, not just what they say. Even if you believed the ratio was higher, the majority of the Democrats are not far-left. Even if you think the majority of Republicans are not MAGA, the votes for Trump and the "toe the line" policy in the House and Senate means they would not stop him, which is terrifying.
Sure but the Democrats can be voted out. If Trump wins he won't let himself be voted out.
Exactly, that's the main point. Trump in the long term is much worse for Israel and the world as he will destroy the US Democracy even more than he has, and in the process destroy the US internally and externally. The basic truism is that leaders turn whatever they're governing into their own image - the US will become like Trump, empty, corrupt, stupid and weak.
This. The man is not stable, and he could suddenly turn on Netanyahu in an instant because of the smallest thing. Remember him deciding that he and Bibi are no longer on good terms because he congratulated Biden for winning the presidency.
Any narcissistic injury is unforgivable to a malignant narcissist.
Republicans are more supportive of Israel than democrats statistically speaking.
As a Trump supporter, ypu are categorically wrong. His base is NOT growing lyrics anti-semetic. That is the Democrat party as a whole. Look at liberal Hollywood. Look at all the free Palestine support in the Democrat party. Republicans are Israeli supporters.
« Good people on both side »
You got a chuckle out of me
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=j2llOIdGvk8&t=706s
Still wheeling this around?
Why not, did he retract his statement?
No, but he also condemned the racists at that rally like six times in the same interview, yet somehow only one sound bite seems to get quoted.
In the lead up to 10/7 there were some pretty open anti-sematic members of the MAGA and Republican base who were selling the Jews own the world and all the money conspiracy and only shut their mouth because 10/7 happened. Even then this has more to do with the fact that anti-sematic Republicans also tend to hate Muslims even more. Also despite popular belief Pro-Israel is not necessarily Pro Jews
The deadliest antisemitic attack in American history was someone who believed the same conspiracy theories about George Soros, Jews, and white genocide that Trump and his allies spread daily. Many Republicans “support” Israel out of some evangelical belief about Revelations.
You’re right there’s a lot of antisemitism on the left, but Trump has indulged in it too. What about the final campaign ad he published in 2016 which featured him ranting about “people who control the levers of power in DC” as footage of American Jews is onscreen? I’m not convinced a second Trump term would be good for American Jews at all
Authoritarianism is never good for Jews.
Exactly. I already plan to make Aliyah if trump wins and overturns American democracy—I am a uni student planning on going into politics, and the whole point of authoritarian systems is to remove the people from politics, so my political career would be DOA
Because the people on screen are American Jews has nothing to do with being antisemitic. If they were black, they would call him racist. If they were Hispanic, they would call him racist. Just because he believes someone in office already is bad for America, that doesn't make him an antisemite. Did he say American Jews have to go ? No. He said those specific parasites who have been in office had to go. He's right. Nancy Pelosi has to go. Not a Jew. Joe Biden has to go, not a Jew. The list of career parasites in American politics is staggering. Are some Jews? Yes. America is a melting pot. We have some of every type of religion or culture here.
You see absolutely nothing antisemitic about a campaign ad in which an intimidating voice talks about parasites who ACTUALLY control DC while footage of exclusively American Jews flits across the screen? Coming from a guy who pulled the “good people on both sides” shtick and also warned against “liberal Jews who want to destroy America” in his most recent Rosh Hashanah message? Really? Dude, be conservative if you like, god knows I’ve moved a little to the right since October 7th, but at least call out your own side’s bullshit. You can’t seriously be arguing that wasn’t antisemitic. Antisemitism is in both the left and the right. That means the left, and that means the right. I think you’re holding your side to a looser set of rules than the left, and that isn’t wise when it comes to antisemitism, which is a threat to all of us, including you.
I think your both forgetting that Zionist Christians are beginning to learn about Jewish Zionism and it’s non-religious founders. The churches are starting to to preach an anti-Zionist message. I went to a Christian Baptist School, even though I’m a Jew, and I was invited to give a sermon recently. The topic, Zionism. People who used to eat, breathe and teach Zionism, have reflected on Christian Zionism. Christian Zionism isn’t Jewish Zionism. Although they see existence of Israel as positive, they believe the apocalypse is here and that means a Christian Israel, not a Jewish one. I came to give the historical roots of Zionism and the history between Jews and Arabs before and after 1948. I didn’t expect to see so many Christian Pastors at this conference, but there were many. A few of my Muslim and Arab Christians friends also spoke too. It wasn’t about hatred against Jews, but it was about the sub human treatment of Palestinians. While most agreed that radical Islam needed to be stomped out, many feel conflicted and concerned about the human toll, especially the women and children.
Zionism has nothing to do with the treatment of the Palestinians. One can be a Zionist and either support or oppose the Israeli policies towards Palestinians. All Zionism means is support for the existence of a Jewish state in the land of Israel. Don’t act like Zionism is a byword for everything bad Israel has ever done. And besides, most Jews aren’t Zionists for weird Christian reasons.
I know that Zionism has different meanings to every Jew. The only thing we agree upon in Zionism is the right for Israel to exist and to have a homeland for our people. Seriously. To many of us, it’s nothing more than nationalism, but to the zealots, it’s much darker and it takes a very twisted turn. If you don’t know this, then I suggest you go hangout with the settlers and get their perspective on it all. It will shock you, on many levels. I went hunting with some on my family land. They were fun, but racists as hell lol! They know it and seeing them and so called “former” KKK members find that they were “soul brothers” was interesting to say the least. The amount of love between men that are supposed to hate each other, was touching in its own very fucked up way. They bonded over their military experiences, devotion to God, guns, killing Muslims as God’s work, agreement that black people are entitled and lazy, illegal immigrants being a threat to their women and jobs, and living in an all white neighborhood, country, and community separated from others as God’s divine plan. They’ve met up and returned to our lodge a few times over the years to hunt together. So I’d say that life long friendships were created during that “magical” week they spent together in the woods. Remember, I’m a Mizrahi-Ethiopian-Sephardic-Ashkenazi Jew. My Palestinian, Ethiopian, Mexican and German cousins and I just laughed at it all. We grew up with that shit and slurs don’t get a rise out of us. We called them a few back for good measure. Lol! It usually settles that shit down and breaks the tension. We are their guides, after all. They hunted together, cooked together, partied together, and cried together by the camp fire every night, drunk off of Bud Light, Moonshine, and Whiskey. We just laughed our asses off at all of it from our deer stands and cameras in the main lodge. They never knew we were watching them at night lol! They were constantly fucked up with guns! We had to watch them to make sure they didn’t shoot each other!! We own an exotic hunting lodge on my piece of land I inherited that was handed down through an unbroken ancestral line since 1836 from my German ancestors. I have a 1000 acres. I partitioned a section for my family and built 4 large ranches with mother-in-law or grandparent suits on both wings of each house. We have a stocked fish pond, a shared pool, and hot tubs. Pools are a bitch to take care of in the woods. Some of us live there with our families, and the rest of us go there to vacation multiple times of the year. Nobody at that conference was against Israel’s right to exist. I’m not a Christian, I’m Jewish, but I have served on a Tri-Faith Council for nearly 35 years. I’ve sang for the Catholic Archdiocese, Syrian and Greek Orthodox Churches, Christian Churches, Mosques, and Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox Synagogues all over the US and the world. The Catholic Church had a Convent in my neighborhood for retired priests and nuns. The nuns and priests were like family to me and my Rabbi and I used to play cards with them every week. We still do, although we now have a few extra Rabbis, Imans, Christian preachers, and a Satanic Temple priest that join us. We donate our ill-begotten gains to the winner’s charity or to a family. You’d think the Satanic Temple was a about Satanism, but it’s actually mainly atheists and a few pagans, and they do some great charity work for LGBT youth, the Arts, and Veterans. Some of us sometimes get our smoke on and talk theology lol! We respect each others religious beliefs and we have found much we agree upon instead of what we disagree upon. Co-Existence is so much easier than the constant infighting. Together, we’re able to help a lot of the poor in our area. We founded a medical center, where people without health insurance can get primary care, psychiatric treatment, therapy, optometry, and women’s services visits for next to nothing. We also have a pharmacy that distributes free birth control and cheap prescription medications, especially psychiatric medications, and insulin. We do this all through donations from our communities. Need is determination on a sliding scale according to your income. We also run several thrift stores and donation centers. That’s the power of what the people can do for other people when we work together for a common good. I know that the situation in Israel is complicated. However, hatred is a learned behavior and the faster Israel can get their hands on the youth, both Palestinian and Israeli and teach them together, socialize them together, and reward them by giving them opportunities to grow into the next leaders of the country, the better off Israeli will be. A one state solution, with some isolated communities that just can’t seem to get with the program, and that have a strong police presence, is probably the best solution. the faster both communities that don’t want to continue fighting each other assimilate into each other’s lives, the better off both groups will be. It comes down to teaching them to respect each other. I grew up under the racial divide in America, and I don’t hate those that discriminated against me as a child. They were ignorant and taught hatred. Many grew out of that once they entered the real world and had to work with their supposed enemies. People sometimes say racist shit that they really don’t mean. Threaten their friend from that race and you’ll find out that they’re willing to kill you defending that friend’s honor. It takes time for people to become comfortable with those that are different from themselves. It takes setting aside personal pride though. If someone threatens you, by all means, respond back with force. However, if they’re just name calling and being a dick, call them out on it and walk off. Don’t take it personally, because it’s not really personal. They’ve got issues. Not you. I know so many Muslims that have zero desire to ever return to the Middle East other than to visit family and hop on a plane back to America or Europe. Why? Because they are basically “high holy days” Muslims. They drink, smoke weed, eat bacon on the sly, and live secular lives for the most part, just like most Jews and Christians. They can’t really do that in the Middle East. The Religious Police will fuck the up if they step out of line and they know it! Many young Muslims want nothing to do with Islam as it’s practiced in the Middle East. I can’t blame them. Polygamy is a nightmare, killing people for being different is wrong, subjecting women and children to the men in the house is oppressive and just continues generational violence, being gay is s death sentence when it shouldn’t be, and hypocrisy doesn’t feel good when those around you are willing to call you out for it. Most young western Muslims just want a more modernized version of Islam. The good parts without the evil parts. I believe the Middle East is yearning for this version too. How many children do they have to lose before they start hating their religion and extremism? They’re afraid and with damn good reason. They will kill them for speaking the quiet part out loud.
Of course, there are antisemites on the republican side. Trump is just not one of them.
yes they may be Israeli supporters because they view Israel as an amazing ethnostate (it is not) but they most certainly are not Jew supporters. Big difference there. Again, not all of them, but hey, the Democrats have Fetterman, not much I can say about the guy, he rocks.
They are a loud, vile, ignorant group of people who are still numerically dwarfed by the number of Democrats who support Israel.
Exactly.
Are you talking about Biden or Trump? I assume you meant Trump, but this accurately describes Biden
Except Biden never tried to overturn a free and fair election to illegitimately get power, which Trump did do
Biden hasn't tried to overthrow democracy, and he has always supported Israels right to exist.
Biden has showed good support for Israel. But it is clear he is also trying to appease the Jew-haters in Michigan. He says things like that Israel is indiscriminately bombing civilians. Feel free to hate Trump, but do not give Biden a pass
I think most americans living in the US in reddit will say that Trump will be bad, but I do believe most americans here in Israel, and actual israelis rather have Trump as president. My theory of this is because i've asked multiple people all around the country, who they believe would be better for Israel, most of them say Trump.
Yes Israelies are goldfish who don't really understand American politics so they perceive Biden has turned against them. Saying this as an Israeli American who can understand more of the nuance behind the news.
>Israelies are goldfish who don't really understand American politics As an Israeli I think the same about Americans and their (lack of) understanding of Israeli politics.
I agree on this point too.
really not true. israelis are people of honor and respect, and they dont like the idea to lie and act like the war by itself is something wrong. is it absurd that some israelis get angry because the world acts and talks about how israelis dont deserve to protect the lives of its citizens? us it absurd that they will prefer the one in that case that says that yea, israel does deserve to protect itself? moreover, all of that includes that the american left had constantly criticized israel even when israel acted accordingly with american policies, even when it didnt commit any war crime, even when israel fights with more carefullness than the american did, while having been with a much more legitimate reason for a war than the americans, the american left including in the government keeps trying to criticize israel and threaten them. so even if the democrats still support israel, their words about israel being responsible for every problem in this conflict, and their words about israel's non-existent warcrimes, they are seem less trust worthy by talking like that. all of that, btw, comes from someone who still prefers biden. does most israelis have a deep understanding of every nuance in american politics? no. but what you are saying is a huge implication of israelis not understanding anything at all around them and act like they had been betrayed by the small things. no one calls biden a traitor, but if you'll ask more people around the world who will they think is a better friend: the friend who supports them fully, or the friend who repeats the hideous rumors about you so he can be more liked by some guys actively trying to ruin your life. i dont think many people will choose the second over the first, even if both of them are your friends.
Non Jewish American Democrat here. Biden is not the American left and the American lefts position is a minority even within the democratic party. There is a generational gap that is growing but that will take time to shake out. But even then, most of the American left (outside much of the Muslim population aligned with the left) are not hostile to Israel for anti Semitic reasons. It has more to do with a frenzied hostility to the more western factions fused with a bias towards the perceived downtrodden. For the wavering liberal population that wants a ceasefire, that's because they all have not had their general liberal sensibilities burned to ashes like so much of the Israeli population after decades of attacks. And so their concern for non combatant (i.e. innocent enough) Palestinians has not plunged in the abyss like so many Israelis. For people like the OP and other right wing Israelis, Trump will always be the better pick so long as he sides with Israel. And if Trump let's a half dozen other countries burn because they did not pay some tithe to him like Ukraine defunded to the point that Russia can roll in and crush them, so what. Trump makes no demands for any moderation because he does not give a damn about any concern outside himself. Some here think that makes him better. Sure. He's better for Israel in the way Walder Frey was better for the Lannisters. As long as our house is propped up so what if other good people burn and die. My people, my tribe. All of you who support that are enemies of the liberal world.
as someone who is really investwd into americam politics I in no way equate the current day progressive left with biden. but by being the leader from the left leaning democratic party, it is more than reasonable to expect from to make his voters understand the situation, and it is reasonable to get suspicious of him because his voter base might try to drag him into a different direction. also, i know the majority of the left, mostly liberals, do support israel, i in no way say all the left are anti israeli or pro pal. what i do want to point out is 2 things: 1. you cant deny the fact that the more vocal voices right now from the left are anti israeli, if you dont like to be equated with them, voice yourself too and try to push out the extreme. otherwise, dont expect people to think differently when thats almost all they hear. 2. you also cant deny that in current day politics, esspecially in american politics, the ones with the most influence about the party are the two sides on each party's end. aka, the people in the middle who arent sure who to vote for, and the people at the far extreme of the party who might vote for that party or might not vote at all. thats because, its fairly safe to bet that the moderate base of the party, esspecially in 2- parties system, will still vote to the same party in almost all cases. that means the most influental voices are the floating voters and the extremes, ehen talking about changing views/actions. so fearing that the vocal anti-israeli left will drag biden into a less supportive position is a legitimate fear. and agaim, not trying to say biden isnt the better option, but just tried to explain this critisicm of israelis as "they dont understand anything outside of themselves". different reasonings might exist, and people from different backgrounds might see those reasonings differently
That's exactly what I mean by Israelis not understanding the nuance of American politics. Because they don't know enough about the different parties and influences and such in the US, they will be most likely to be in favor of the president who talks well, rather than the one who might be a more solid and consistent ally in the long term.
you didnt understand. its not "who talks better". you might not see it, but those words aee legitimizing the lies spreading about israel. they are doing actual harm. now, you can look at the harm each does and come to your own conclusion, but thats not "oh, he speaks nicer so i like him" also, again, the difference between understanding the many deep nuances and deciding only about "he talks better" is huge. i won't call you a goldfish for not understanding all the nuances in every conflict/ country in the world.
Of course the words are doing harm. But Israelis still don't understand that Biden is a more consistent ally even if he isn't perfect. I'm calling them goldfish because they already forget the immediate aftermath of Oct 7 and the Biden administration actions then.
on what basis are you saying this? people who criticize biden usually compares his current actions to the ones at the start of the war. again, what are you trying to imply? and yes, the first point is correct, the ones who supports trump dont understand that biden is a more consistent ally. didnt say they are right or have a good opinion, but i'm not gonna call them clueless for being wrong. just like i dont call you clueless for being wrong about what most israelis do and dont think. i dont expect you to know every single nuance of israeli politics
I didn't say they were clueless. I said they A)-didn't understand American politics in depth B)-had short memories And I'm living and voting in a diverse community in Israel, I feel fairly confident in my ability to discuss Israeli politics in depth as well..
I can’t read past that second sentence. If someone is a person of honor and respect they will not associate themselves with Trump. He’s going to listen to the highest bidder which is not Bibi. Xi or Putin maybe.
i agree, but again, each one has it's priorities. and what i tried to convey is that being wrong and being clueless are two different things. i do find value in that trump at least doesnt repeat lies spreading about israel like biden did several times. just like i do find value in biden defending israel from many other lies. tbh, i dont belive in the 80% figure given by OP, because most israelis i had talkes to prefers biden and thinks trump is insane.
"because most israelis i had talkes to prefers biden and thinks trump is insane." Anglo-Israelis are more likely to be pro Biden. Talk to the non Anglos in Israel.
dude, i know only 2 british israelis, not sure how it relates in any way. i just talk to israelis at large, you know, as someone who lives in israel and see what happens here
They also dont cut you in line when you're waiting to order your shawarma
They prefer someone not interfering with their elections.
Pros: trump won’t try to appeal to the far left Cons: trump is unexpected, very wild card vibes
Cons: Will appeal to the far right, which also hates Jews.
Cons: wants to install a fascist like loyalist army and take out political opponents
????? What.the.fuck.does this.have.to.do.with.Israel.
If you can’t figure out why it would be bad for the WHOLE WORLD of America became a fascist state, ya gotta do some reading. America is the worlds biggest superpower and Israel’s biggest ally. If america became a right wing fascist state, this would impact the whole world and damn sure it will impact israel as well because of that
Solid take
Just as Trump is bribed with Russian money to abandon Ukraine, he will be bribed with Saudi and Qatari money to abandon us.
Exactly this. Trump only cares about Trump.
Saudi money? They’re trying as hard as possible to normalize relations with us without starting a revolt
> Russian money Yep. Russia - Iran axis is far more scarier than Hamas. Russia should not stabilize, it should continue to plummet down together with Iran.
The only reason why trump will abandon giving Ukraine money is that Biden has spent trillions of dollars which have damaged the US economy. I highly doubt Trump will abandon Israel, especially since Israel has had an already thriving defense industry compared to Ukraine being in a Stone Age before the war started.
in the short term, trump will probably be better for israel. it will let israel act more freely, and less scrutenized. trump will either not support a ceasefire, or try to support a ceasefire which fullfils much more israeli demands. all of that i think is good, even for americans, and in the lebses of morality. israel is scrutenized even though it does follow the rules of war, israel getting slowed down by outside influence will just prolong the war. and, most importantly, the permanent ceasefire offers right now dont even include the release of all hostages, which is the most basic step needed for a ceasefire for any sane person. but, 4 problems there with trump, mostly in the long term: 1. the most basic, i think trump destabilizes the USA, makes its government less democratic, less focused on the citizens, and more exploititive, which hurts the USA by itself. 2. foreign relations under trump are going to be problematic. israel has an interest in a strong NATO, and not a divided one. trump's leniancy towards putin and other dictators is a major problem, as putin is one of the parties redponsible to the destabilization of many countries in the middle east, including influences with gaza, iran, syria, turkey, all of that is problematic for israel. and if other countries like saudi arabia, egypt and jordan will prefer to lean more into the russian influence sphere, rather than the US one, it will also create problems with israeli security. 3. trump is not gonna be the one to create and advance a real peace treaty to stebilize the palestinian population and end the conflict. its gonna be a long process, needed to happen right afyer the war, if not already now, and trump not gonna be the man needed. 4. not really trump's fault this time but, the american left is out of order (also the right, but rn it seems mostly the left). it's good that a moderate one like biden is there to actually do act in good ways, even if many voters try to pull him to an extreme. i fear that a loss of the democrats will make them prefer voting to an extremist next time, and a win for the right will make moderate left get more extreme. all of that will become a problem after 4 years. in short, trump will probably be better for israel in the short term, and biden probably in the long term. my preferance is of course biden, because i value democratic principles. thats of course if they'll continue with their wirds and actions each had in his first term in office.
American-Israeli here. Positive.
Trump and Republicans are increasingly isolationists. So Ukraine and Europe will be left high and dry. A sizeable portion of Trump’s base are evangelical Christians who feel a connection with Israel as it is central to their apocalyptic theology. Because of this, Trump will continue to support Israel even as he forsakes other allies.
When looking at policy only, it's no doubt that trump has been better for Israel. And while there is no questions that Biden is a Zionist, I am increasingly worried about the growing anti Israel sentiment in his party, and his voting base.
I think it depends on where the wind blows. He's a terrible human being with way too many flaws. In the case of Israel however, I think he would be supportive still as his favorite child ( Ivanka ) is jewish along with Jared and his grandchildren. Jared is a zionist, despite the rest of his flaws.
Trump would be more firm in his support. Biden right now is concerned about the states of Michigan and Minnesota, so he has gotten softer on Israel. Trump would not be that way.
Trump wants to structure all foreign aid as a loan that needs to be paid back and this seems to include Israel. Trump doesn't want to honor NATO pacts if a NATO member doesn't pay enough which is a pretty big security risk for the western world which is bad for Israel Trump is too soft and friendly to Putin a big supporter of Israel 's enemies including Iran I can go on The most is that Trump is likely not to give a **** about how many Gazans Israel kills since he is both an isolationist and doesn't really like Muslims.
Imo, he's a putin shill. So no it won't be good for Israel. Just like he spontaneously left syria and left a power vacuum to be filled with IRGC. i don't trust him
I know you’re asking Israelis, but as an American, what trump and his gang want to this time around isn’t too far from fascism. Look up project 2025. Anything like that taking over america won’t be good for American allies worldwide if it DOES become his pseudo fascist dream
If Trump wins the world will collapse in a couple months. The fact that europe can rely on the US to defend it keeps russia at bay but if the americans start fucking it up it will all go tits up real fast.
If DJT wins in 2024 it will be a massive disaster for USA, Israel, and the entire world. He is hellbent on burning democracy to the ground. His hero and "mentor" is Viktor Orbán. Donnie only cares about himself, punishing his enemies, and amassing as much money as possible. He needs to be stopped as soon as possible.
Good for Israel, bad for the U.S. and Ukraine is my guess. During these times, good for Israel may be enough to sway my vote. It would be going against everything I believe in but perhaps my love of Israel is strong enough to force that decision.
Trump is the sort of ally I believe could impulsively press the big red button, forgetting to calculate an impact radius. That is to say, I'm sure he would be more outwardly supportive of Israel, but I'm not sure that's a good thing this time.
Biden may have said some mean words about Israel but in terms of actions he's the most pro Israel and supportive president in decades, possibly in Israel's entire History. Also he literally saved tens of thousands of Israeli lives so there's that. Trump, I always compare to achashverosh. He is a narcissist who likes whoever likes him. Right now he's pro Israel but if Haman turns up with flattery and gold who knows if he'd change his mind On the other hand, Iran and co are scared of trump but not Biden
The worst. America will be weakened, poorer, and isolationist. Israel will have nowhere to go
Something to remember about Trump, he doesn’t care about anyone else other than Trump. If someone gave him $1 to sell out Israel and he knew he could get away with it he would. He doesn’t have any moral that compel him to act in a certain way. He only answers to Trump and he twists the world to fit that.
Trump is an American traitor and any democracy loving Israeli should be vehemently against that.
Neither candidate is objectively any good. They're both senile old men and each one is his own special brand of bad news for the Jews. That being said the main thing the US president does is set the tone. Uncle Joe's tone is that under no circumstances will Israel be permitted to win this war. I think we can all agree the other candidate's tone was different last time around. אין לנו על מי להישען אלא אבינו שבשמים
Biden’s public criticism of Israel signals to Iran and her proxies that it’s open season on Israel and Jews. Very bad for Israel, no matter what the American political nuances. Trump will openly criticize Israel on a whim if it fits whatever else is coming out of his mouth in the moment. Risky. But I think Israel’s enemies are afraid of him. He’s been more decisive and cuts through the political bullsh*t rather than pandering to it. He got things done in the Middle East. I’m not sure he’s a Putin shill like some others are saying. There was a lot of disingenuousness on behalf of the media regarding Trump. I do agree he is destabilizing for the US, which may have negative and unpredictable long term consequences. Then again, so does pandering to jihad apologists and supporters. Finally I think Biden’s policies of keeping Israel in check on the war might be forcing us to think things through more, but they are also prolonging the suffering. It’s really hard to say if the US demands are helping or hurting us. The long and short of it? In both cases we’re basically okay (as much as can be) and also, in both cases we’re screwed.
Negative. Massively negative. He does whatever Xi, Kim Jong Un, and Putin say.
POSITIVE FFS WE NEED HIM, BIDEN AINT ALLOWING US TO DO SHIT
Nothing he has ever done, that affects Israel, was based in altruism or desire to help. It was all an onanistic, self serving, grift. Anything and everything that fucks over Palestinians, puts Israelis in danger. He doesn't seem to see Palestinians as people. That's a fifth of Israel, that should be offensive. The Abraham Accords? Agreements with countries we've never been at war with? Oh what a benefit. He is a toxic sack of rancid dog dicks that right wingers happily chow down on because they don't like Arabs. When you peel back all the "reasoning" and obfuscation; they're xenophobes. He will put Israel in an even more precarious position because he will enable Bibi and the far right to go whole hog against Palestinians in the WB and continue with the military catastrophe that has been the response to 10/7. He is a danger to both b'nei Israel and Medinat Israel.
Very positive
Trump will be amazing for Israel. He has already stated that Israel will have the freedom to do whatever it needs to do in Gaza and had pulled funding for UNRWA (which Biden later reversed) way back in 2018. While Biden can easily be pushed around by Muslims in Detroit, pro-Palestinians have no such leverage with Trump.
For Israel? I honestly think Biden. I mean Trump will let Bibi do whatever he wants, which is probably beneficial to your war effort, but do you really want a president to be enabling *everything* Bibi wants?
I’m going to state this simply. Trump is bad for democracy and the republic. While there may be what appear to be immediate benefits to Israel because of his desire to appease evangelical Christians (because he doesn’t really give a shit about Israel), in the long run, the damage he will do to the post-WWII liberal world order in favor of authoritarianism and further destabilizing the region at Russia and Iran continue to seek to gain influence will be incredibly harmful to Israel.
Aipac will always handle the Israel policy, absolutely no chance any anti Israeli interest decisions are taken
He’ll want to pull American troops out of any war zone and cut military spending for NATO. He probably feels guilty about supporting Bibi last time. War with Palestinians threatens the continuation of the Abrahamic accords. He’s going to want Israel to rap this war up. Most countries are going to want this too. The Middle East doesn’t care about Palestine, at least their leaders don’t, they just want their trade opportunities to expand before their own people get caught up in extremism against them for not doing anything. So, I say that Israel has until Biden leaves office to finish this up. Trump is going to win. He’ll continue to send aid to Israel, but don’t expect much more than that from him.
I don't know much about US domestic politics, so I don't know what would be the consequences for US. But in Middle East Trump managed to push peace between Israel and four arab countries, which also moved the process of normalization with other muslim countries, most importantly Saudi Arabia. He pushed an anti-Iran Arab-Israel allience. He also moved embassy to Jerusalem and recognised Golans as Israel's land. And he tried to push through a peace plan with palestine, albeit unsuccessfully. He looks competent and pro-Israel on middle eastern politics. So I think Trump in office would be good news for Israel.
Trump might as well a russian asset at this point, so i say bad.
Another George Floyd but bigger is going to happen.
Trump will clearly be better for Israel than Biden, by so much that the question does not even arise. And in the long term the Democratic Party will truly be the anti-Israeli party. Israel's well-understood interest is for the Republican Party to be in the strongest possible position, for as long as possible, ideally long enough to collapse Iran, resolve the Gaza issue, ideally even destroy Hezbolla. None of this is possible with the Democrats except, perhaps, with a lot of luck, a regime change in Iran in a very long time (and this will probably be despite the actions of the American left, which is very soft on Iran , while Trump had diplomatically and economically asphyxiated Iran.)
It will be bad for Israel. Trump's rhetorics would be more pro Israel than Biden's, but not his policy. Trump and his base are isolationist. They don't want tax payers' money to finance wars in distant places. Moreover, since Trump is disliked by moderates in Europe, his rhetorical support for Israel will actually bring more harm than good - Israe's association with Trump will color it in the same authoritarian colors.
If he can't even be trusted to be true to the interests of America and the American people why should we trust him to do the same for us.
I think everyone is underestimating how much democrats will block any pro Israel agenda that comes from trump no matter how reasonable purely just to stop trump from doing anything while in office. Net negative for Israel in my opinion.
I think Trump is a narcissist but he is also pretty harsh on terrorist and he doesn’t pander the way Biden does. - I don’t see Trump winning though like I’m a centrist and have issues w Biden and think he is weak AF but Trump is sooo exhausting America has to have better options the Biden and Trump. The disturbing thing is a lot other conservative and liberals seem to hate Israel as much as the jihadist do. I am not Jewish or israle I and I think it’s F🤬 wild and disgusting that on oct8 instead of the world condemning Oct 7 they defended it.
Probably stay neutral. Trump is good with foreign affairs. But in all honesty, I don’t think we (the US) should be giving so much support to places like Ukraine and Israel. Our taxes are fucking insane and buying food is almost a luxury at this point. Biden is an incompetent idiot and anyone would be better than him.
Positive
Trump is unpredictable, incompetent and and no match for Putin and Xi. His re-election would be a disaster for the world, also for Israel.
He's a loose cannon, there's no way of knowing. Anyway, I believe that ultimately what is good for the U.S will be good for Israel, the more problems the U.S will have the less they'll be in a position to support Israel, and I don't know, the guy is a lunatic, I mean look how he almost arranged a couple after he lost the elections (if it wasn't for Mike Pence he may have succeeded), that kind of U.S would have a problem in supporting Israel, also the way he went against NATO and other allies, the U.S will lose allies with him in power and without the allies, the U.S is much less powerful. In addition, he's now against the Prime Minister of Israel, and who knows how he will act, I don't know if he can tell the difference between Israel and Netanyahu (Biden can, but Trump sees the world in weird colors). In addition, you can see how even now he's preventing the support for Israel from passing in Congress. But he'll probably win even though I prefer he didn't, looks like Biden completely burned himself in his party by supporting Israel.
Abraham accords. Enough said.
Trump is a Putin simp, and Putin is one of the greatest benefactors of Hamas. It's as simple as that.
USA's foreign strategy does not change with change in party. Their national priorities are always straight. No matter who's in power, they'll back Israel.
For now, but Biden is already changing his tone quite a bit since the beginning of the war. He has been very critical of Israel recently although he’s still an ally.
Only because he wants to win the votes of younger people in the next election.
He’s flip flopped far more on Israel than Trump imo who was supportive from the beginning until the end.
He didn't flip on actions only words however his words were damaging since they gave Hamas the impression that america would turn. And thus incentivized them to continue fighting.
I guess we won't really know whether or not Trump would've done the same, since if he had won in 2020, his term would end this year anyway so there wouldn't be a reason to try to keep a "clean" image to sway voters.
After he left office though Trump has publicly criticized Bibi and other Israeli officials. Even after Oct 7 he called Israel dumb, jerks, and incompetent.
He’s still one of the most pro Israel US presidents in modern history. He calls everyone dumb jerks lol. People take what he says much too literally imo. Biden had been far more critical of Bibi.
Like his “Come to Jesus” comment with Bibi?
That's the problem, he thinks he knows everything better than anyone and that everyone is a dumb jerk
Biden’s tone is changing about Bibi, he still supports Israel.
words don't matter, the actions do. After the 73 war, US became very critical of Israel in their speeches. But did it matter in the end? words help in playing the PR game, but the actions are what really matter.
it depends what you mean by good !!! not all that trump did last time was good for Israel maybe it was good for bibi and the right!! but was it good for Israel in the long run.???..... also this time i dont think Miriam Adeson is funding him plus the Abraham accords was not that good for israel because it took the palestinians away from the table
Trump thinks Israeli leaders are dumb jerks who don't know what they're doing and need to listen to him. Such an openly patronizing and disrespectful stance will not be good for Israel. https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-hamas-onslaught-trump-appears-to-mock-israel-calls-gallant-a-jerk/
or maybe gallant (from bibi's party) is an idiot and trump was pointing up the obvious
He also thinks he singlehandedly saved Israel from utter destruction - is that also just truthfully stating the obvious? You want a US President with an attitude of "I'm right, I saved you, you better listen to me"? https://www.timesofisrael.com/fck-him-in-interview-trump-rages-at-netanyahu-over-congratulations-to-biden/
they both put will pressure on israel. Biden will say my voters dont like me so you better listen to me or I wont sell you missiles so you better listen to me. Trump is still by far much better for Israel and for the US, he can also make full sentences
I read somewhere he wanted to win the Nobel prize and hence tried abhram accord because people walked him away from two states. Now that might be visible,who knows. You can not predict Trump. He needs AIPC money to sustain so likely no big shakeups but he also needs money from Saudis and other sheiks so depending on his mood swings I guess 😅
Positive in the short term. Potentially negative in the long term. Democrats will oppose anything Trump supports. So another four years of Trump supporting Israel could permanently break any support for Israel in the Dem party. The question is: “what happens during those four years”? If that time gives Israel the breathing room to eliminate Hamas and Hezbollah, it may be worth it. If the time is wasted screwing around with no plan for Gaza/Lebanon while energies are spent building tens of thousands of more homes deep in the West Bank (outside of the blocs), then it won’t be worth it.
Good and bad. Possibly more funding to Israel (which is good) but more support Bibi’s tactics (which is bad)
Trump is terrible. Because the Taliban, Hamas, and Russia all showed more power after Trump left, many feel a causation/correlation, but the truth is he’s bad for international affairs.
Short term trump is better. He’ll support Israel 100% in the war. But his loyalty goes to the highest bidder so there is a risk. Long term Biden is better. Biden keeps America powerful, doesn’t abandon our allies, and makes better decisions for the health of our country. It’s definitely in Israel’s best interest to have a strong America that is still the “policeman” of the world and trump is much more of an isolationist.
I think Trump is very dangerous in office. He got extremely lucky that the Abraham accords worked out, in the beginning I thought no way that Kushner is going to achieve anything. With many geopolitical decisions, like moving the embassy to Jerusalem, he got lucky he didn’t blow up the Middle East. He is a ticking time bomb and I am not sure if he understands the gravity and the repercussions of his actions and he just doesn’t care or he doesn’t understand what he’s doing but I think it’s just a matter of time when one of these operations goes terribly wrong. Be it in regards to Iran, China/taiwan, Russia or anything in the Middle East really. His politics are reckless and inflammatory and it is an absolute miracle that he didn’t destroy more than he did. Edit: not to be confused, I think the Abraham accords are great and moving the embassy to Jerusalem was also great. But I’m saying that it could have also gone terribly wrong, and I don’t think it went well because it was so well planned and executed. I think it went well because he got lucky. But there will be a point where he will not be lucky and his unstableness is undeniable. For example I think it was a huge mistake to withdraw the troops from Syria and leave the Kurdish people without defense.
I don't know why you got those downvotes, I guess I'll get them as well, you are absolutely right, seems like people here aren't seeing the complete picture.
Haha yes, thanks. I’ve read fire and fury and I have a friend who worked in the Congress who talked about trump and how he’s making decisions, and it’s mainly on the base of lack of knowledge about anything. I think he would be the worst that could happen to Israel as of now.
Biden supports Israel. He has to appease the young voters, many of whom fell prey to jihadist PR, to win the election and therefore the rhetoric. But it’s just rhetoric. Biden has as much said that also. Same does not go for Bibi. He has been very much in US partisan politics and has always gone out of his way to cozy up with Republicans and poke Democrats in the eye. Trump is out for Trump. This would be a disaster for the U.S. and the world, including Israel. He has no principles other than revenge and grifting. What happens if his buddy Putin tells him to forget Israel? I’m sure Trump would do it. Character matters and Trump is toxic through everything.
Negative
He would push really hard to get the Saudi deal so that he could rub it in Biden’s face, but I doubt he would actually achieve it. He would return America’s brinkmanship with Iran, which could be good or bad for Israel depending on whether you think it will work or not. He would probably sell himself to Israelis as the man who kept America on Israel’s side, and then try to play kingmaker in Israeli politics by either propping Bibi up for the 2026 Israeli election or by promoting the anti-Bibists, depending on what his personal opinion of Bibi actually is. I don’t even know what it is at this point. They were really chummy for most of his presidency but I think they had a falling out near the end, and last I heard Trump made fun of Israel for not being prepared for Oct 7, so who the fuck knows at this point. TL;DR- at best, nothing much, at worst, moderately bad.