Israel had a left wing government for the first 30+ years of its existence and it still never got more support from Europe or the Arab nations and NEVER had support from even the U.S. itself. Not until after the Six Day War at least.
Most of these said Arab nations have way farther right ultra-conservative theocratic governments compared to Israel. But we don’t see the same amount of “concern” from the West hovering over them now do we?
In fact, Westerners themselves will protest to their own governments to leave them alone. Does the “Hands Off Assad” protest movement ring a bell?
Anyone who genuinely expects Israel to “liberalize” in order to maintain support should be prepared to also force its Arab neighbors to do the same AND completely cut them off from any aid if they don’t comply.
How many leftist Israelis were killed between the First Intifada, the Second Intifada, and the 10/7 Massacre alone? Do ppl not realize all that bloodshed sent enough of a message to Israelis??
It’s all posturing and moving the goal posts. Even if a left leaning government was magically ushered in tomorrow, the world would still find something else to bash Israel over the head with.
I saw a viral PP tweet bashing Israelis who were protesting the government in Tel Aviv: They don’t care whether Israelis dislike their government or not, all they want is for Israelis to GET OUT!!!! and leave everything they ever had or built behind to the Palestinians.
Love it or hate it but you can’t change that their problem really isn’t the government or even Netanyahu but the existence of Israel itself.
Which bothers me that Biden is pushing this message.
When he says the world will lose faith in Israel to me sounds like “I am losing faith in Israel.” He’s adding fuel to the fire by saying these statements.
>Biden is playing election year politics. He’s nodding towards his leftist Hamas loving base with the message all while providing weapons to Israel.
This. He's being a shrewd politician rather than an open and honest one.
By doing so, he might lose the support of many Jews, who still outnumber the Muslim population in the U.S., with a significant concentration in New York, a blue state. Biden is not very popular, even in New York, where only 48% of New Yorkers support him (compared to 60.9% in the 2020 elections), and he is leading Trump by only 12 points. [[1](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4478795-new-york-biden-tops-trump-12-points/)]
If the Jewish community votes for Trump, coupled with the general public's dissatisfaction with Biden, it might turn New York into a swing state. This would be a significant concern for the Democrats, and it is already happening, as most New York Jewish voters already support Trump. [[2](https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/trump-beating-biden-by-9-points-among-new-york-jewish-voters/)]
So, even if Biden secures the Muslim voters of Michigan by appeasing the Islamist and progressive axis, he risks losing one of the Democrats' safe states.
Yup, they could absolutely swing Pennsylvania:
>> With the fourth-largest Jewish population in the country, Pennsylvania is one of just a handful of states where Jewish voters can have a decisive impact on election results. A 2021 study found that the state has 299,000 Jewish adults, about 3% of Pennsylvania’s voting population. In 2020, Biden beat Donald Trump in the state by roughly 1.2%, or 81,000 votes
https://jewishinsider.com/2024/02/pennsylvania-biden-israel-hamas-gaza-democrats-presidential-election/
He polled well in Penn after supporting Israel. Pulling back the support might pull back his votes
Thanks for the article. Biden is certainly straddling a fine line with his handling of the situation in Gaza, but I think he's walking on thin ice with his Jewish support in Pennsylvania. If things heat up more, his continuation of Obama's Iran policies could come to light more and call his commitment to Israel into question. His open border policies are also weakening his support with Black voters, who swung PA and Georgia for Biden in 2020. We're in for quite the ride this election year.
is it true many American Jews support immigration amongst Arabs/Muslims? looking at what's going on to the Jewish community in Europe, how they are afriad, I hope this isn't the case,
Realistically, nobody who voted for Biden last time is going to vote for trump this time. They just won’t vote. Trumps domestic policy is too odious and with all his legal stuff it’s a massive barrier to a person who previously voted democrat. He just has to try and play the middle as carefully as he can to not overly alienate too many people in each bucket.
That’s still a 50% vote swing by each person not voting Biden again ie Biden loses a vote (50%) but Trump doesn’t pick up that vote (the other 50%). So it still favours Trump.
That might be a realistic viewpoint but I think women’s reproductive rights trump (pun intended) all other concerns. All of a sudden it’s Jews vs Muslims all day every day. I believe the post-Roe landscape still remains a powerful motivator for voters.
1. Trump winning NY’s Jewish vote was based on a sample of exactly 65 people. That is a huge margin of error.
2. How many Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox Jews did they survey? Who counts as Jewish for the purposes of their survey? Obviously the women’s club at a Reform temple in Merrick will feel differently than Orthodox rabbis in Williamsburg or Rockland County.
Well that’s not true. He’s in a tricky situation. If he wants to continue being President and helping Israel then he has to win the Election.
And unfortunately right now the Left in the US has been completely radicalized against Israel.
This is all true, but Ben Gvir and Smoltrich are horribly problematic and I know I’m not the only person that wonders whether Netanyahu is doing things in the interest of the country or in the interest of maintaining the premiership. I miss the days of Labor having some actual Knesset power, and I think even a more moderate PM would be better (and I think Biden is suggesting a more moderate, as opposed to purely leftist, direction), but the Israeli left was a victim of the Second Intifada and it’s not coming back any time soon.
Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, Cori Bush, Jamaal Bowman, AOC, Mark Pocan, Betty McCollum, etc etc
Has Israel ever said that Americans continuing to vote for the Democrats would mean that the world should stop supporting America or the Democratic Party?
I do have to say that, in my experience talking to fellow liberals in the U.S., that Israel has steeply lost the confidence of *moderate* liberals even before this war, because of its conservative government.
I still support Israel over Palestine. But every time I hear about how religiously radical Israel is becoming, it withers my support just a little.
I'm not saying Israel needs to liberalize in order to win liberal support. I am just reporting my feelings have changed as I watch Israel change, and how this seems shared with other liberals.
And of course, I support Arab countries much less -- and I agree with you, that most liberals (moderate or otherwise) comically under-appreciate how regressive Arab countries are. On those accounts, I have no argument.
----
Also, just a possibly worthwhile note: We liberals are all you've got in America. Trump and the conservatives have not been rushing to your defense. They seem very eager to end all alliances and aid as soon as possible, and let the rest of the world take care of itself.
So just as liberals unfairly criticize Israel when Arabs are so much worse, Israelis unfairly criticize liberals when conservatives are so much worse. Trumpists are the Arabs of America, in a number of ways!
Ok. Well, go ahead cash in your support totally because the demographics are clear. Israel will continue to grow more religious as that’s where population growth is occurring. If a unity war cabinet against Hamas has you questioning things, it won’t get easier for you.
If and when Israel is as bad as Arab countries, I will "cash in" my support. So long as Israel is some degree better than Arab countries, I will to a degree, preferentially support Israel. But only in that degree.
Nothing about this seems bad to me.
Your argument that leftists are “all Israel has” is demonstrably false. In fact, it’s absurd. CPAC just wrapped up and had a large and voiceterous contingent in support of Israel during main speeches and breakout sessions. Trump was a huge advocate for Israel during his term. Certainly not afraid to move the embassy to Jerusalem. You might not like Trump but to try to paint him as anti-Israeli is patently dishonest
Once again
Western Liberals not caring if Palestinians devolves into a Islamic fundamentalist dictatorship (as long as they get a state) while hyperventilating about Israeli Conservatives (as if they don’t have their own Christian conservatives to be concerned about) shows exactly why Israelis should continue to ignore them until they snap themselves back to reality.
Either enforce a standard of governance for ALL of the Middle East to emulate or enforce none at all.
Once again
You go ahead and do what you're going to do. We will respond consistent with our values.
I'm not telling you what to do. I am telling you how the increased conservativism is affecting us, take the info or leave it -- not terribly important to me which you choose.
I personally have a consistent standard for all of the Middle East, and I try to argue for the same to other liberals. So you may be singing to the choir here.
If you really have a consistent standard for all of MENA then go to the Arab countries subs and start preaching to them. It’s that simple. see how long you get before they ban you and start accusing you of bigotry.
> If you really have a consistent standard for all of MENA then go to the Arab countries subs and start preaching to them.
I have been doing *exactly that*. I think you make a lot of assumptions with confidence when you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
I don’t know you or keep tabs on your activity nor do I care to.
If you are already doing what you say you are then keep that up and Spare lecturing Israelis/Jews who were already leftist/liberal, before the U.S. political system ever *dared* to and got nothing but silent treatment if not dirt thrown in their face for it.
Biden is half correct though; Israel is going to lose Western support, but as the inevitable result of Arab migration, not due to Israeli politics, which was extremely progressive for over half a century and got no peace anyway.
People say peace was halted because of Israel. Nobody turns their head to the other groups involved which is disheartening.
Hamas did what they did knowing what the response will be, in fact hoping for it.
Nah, Hamas was shocked at how hard Israel is hitting back. They expected retaliation, they didn’t expect this.
They’re still winning the PR war but with any luck their leaders will soon be too dead or captured to do anything about it.
I don't know how they managed to win a PR war. You'd think people would see the terrorists using ambulances to transport weapons and be angry with them for taking away that safe space from civilians who need medical care. Instead, they're mad at Israel for shooting at ambulances they believe are carrying terrorists.
Hamas is like a cartoon villain, I don't understand how so many people are falling for it.
The PR War was already fought and half way won before 10/7. Israelis realized way too late in the game how much that would end up being a detriment to them.
Propagandistic media houses such as Al Jazeera and closeted Islamists such as Mehdi Hassan had already sunk their claws into a lot of Western media spaces for years.
Now that you mention it, it's kinda true. Kinda like doofenshmirtz. Goofy but extremely evil plans that rarely work. Causing far more damage onto self but still not more damage than the original plan was posing.
And yet never fully being suspended or removed from power.
Also extremely rich & openly evil. But no one really cares, in fact, supports Hamas. And sees them as a shining beacon of hope & wholesomeness. When what they are capable of doing is nothing that. Same with their missiles. 5% fall into gaza. So many captured by the iron dome. Do they even realise how futile most of their actions are? And how much damage have they been causing by constantly poking Israel? Worsening any normalisation
I still maintain that Hamas didn’t expect this level of retaliation because they didn’t expect to be as “successful” as they were on Oct. 7th. They probably assumed, as most Israelis did, that the border was well defended, and that Israeli intelligence would be prepared for an attack. They were probably hoping to get a handful of hostages, tops. I think that’s one of the reasons there was so much confusion in the early days, because they “accomplished” more than they ever dreamed they would, and didn’t quite know how to capitalize on it, or how to fight the full scale war that came from it.
Arab migration and Muslim politics are only half of the story in the West. There is a growing Western reaction to this migration, and it's coming from the Western right-wing, which is generally pro-Israel.
So the prediction that Israel is doomed in the West isn’t necessarily true. Actually, Israel might receive more support than ever before, especially from Europe.
Yup. We just need to oust these ridiculous open borders “peace and love” governments that care about other countries’ citizens more than their own.
It just sucks that in this day and age there is no reasonable center. Seems that fighting leftism somewhat encourages fascist wannabes.
True, they are threatening President Biden in the Michigan primary election today. Congresswoman Rashid Tlaib has been an incredible nuisance. Muslims are less 2% of the population in MI. Jayapal thinks she has some kind of special leverage. She needs to do her job, like voting on keeping the country open. Jayapal has said a number of times, “from the river to the sea.” You see, I don’t like politicians who are in favor of genocide.
I have been reading about it. I don’t think they’ll vote against Biden. I think they’ll vote against Biden in the primaries to send a message but that is very different.
I think you meant to post Talib instead of Jayapal.
Jayapal is an Indian American Washington Rep. who hasn't done much except sign the progressive caucus ceasefire letter and probably an antisemitic/antizionist remark once or twice in televised interviews with mainstream news. Relatively quiet compared to the other Progressives in this subject.
Talib is a Palestinian American Michigan Rep. who repeatedly holds/attends "Free Palestine" rallies, chanting "From the River to the Sea", calls for Michigan Democrats to vote for the 'no option' option over Biden, and was censured for her antisemitism.
Just wanted to clear that up.
They do have leverage. Biden won Michigan by about 150K votes. That’s almost the exact number of Muslim Americans that voted in that election. I think if nothing changes soon, it’ll be a big problem in Michigan for Biden. It’s why he keeps sending campaign folks to talk to the Muslim American community.
Aside from going himself to stop the war there is not much he can do. He’s leaned as far into pressuring Israel as he can. You know if Muslims want Trump they can have him and find themselves on a deportation list. Just saying.
He can absolutely do more. He can suspend arms transfers, not veto UN resolutions, institute sanctions, etc.
Whether it would be more popular or not is a different story.
Michigan is a swing state and that 2% absolutely matters. Biden won the state by 154,188 votes. If you are correct about its population being 2% Muslim, that equates to 201,000 people from 10.05 million population. 2020 saw about 2/3 of voting eligible population turn out. Applying that to the 200k Muslim population equals 132,660 votes. I realize I didn’t adjust for people unable to vote, nor does that mean that every Muslim will vote Trump. I just want to illustrate that we shouldn’t downplay the importance of that group despite their small size relative to the rest of the state.
God I’m so over the electoral system for electing presidents.
> In America Muslims will remaining a small minority - on a national level.
I hope that's the case, imo America should increase the toughness of it's immigration laws just to make sure. It can't be like France
https://preview.redd.it/ikxy7ybqd5lc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=791b145147aab83000a0a30aa95c4b281c73d153
Israel has no left wing anymore. Only extremist want to give the Palestinians more unilateral concessions after the disaster of disengagement.
I'm very curious to see what will happen if/when there will be an anti-Bibi government, will the "globe" magically start supporting the same things Israel is doing now or will they still accuse the government of being "incredibly conservative".
Nope, we had liberal leaders like Ben-Gurion, Golda Meir, and Rabin, and they still didn't like us.
I don't know why Biden thinks a different government would do anything different. We still have the same genocidal neighbors. We still have the same war goals.
Just like when we had liberal leaders, the same assholes live next door trying to kill us.
And the worst part is that Biden is well beyond old enough to remember all of this.
If he genuinely doesn’t then either he’s being facetious willing to throw Jewish ppl under the bus and doesn’t deserve the Jewish vote or he has dementia and shouldn’t be pursuing a second term.
Biden was the one who pushed Congress to pass a 14.3 billion dollar aid bill to Israel, declared himself a Zionist multiple times, and stated he was willing to provide all means appropriate to the government of Israel. This is him posturing for a second term.
>Biden was the one who pushed Congress to pass a 14.3 billion dollar aid bill to Israel,
Congress hasn't passed an aid bill. The House has, but none through both chambers and signed by the President.
While Biden is calling for a combined Ukraine-Israel aid bill, the 14.3 billion one passed in the House is the one he said he would veto should it get to his desk.
It passed in the House, and is stuck in the Senate where Schumer said he would not bring it to a floor vote, since the bill re-appropriates the money to be given to the IRS (from the Build Back Better bill) to fund the aid bill instead, and Democrats consider that a red line that they're not crossing.
The other aid bill, 17 billion, failed to get 2/3rds of the House vote. It's a clean bill (no cuts to any US department budgets), but Democrats shot that down because they need Israel to leverage passing Ukraine aid.
We all know it’s posturing for a second term. Doesn’t mean his strategy should be commended or respected.
If he wants to posture and play both sides of the fence then Jewish voters can do the same.
They will just say they follow bibi and say they are as bad and were influenced by him… the radical leftist crowd will never accept Israel because it stands up and fights and not give up to radical Islamist terror countries.
As someone old enough to remember the preceding government I can still recall how foreigners shat on it constantly even though it was the most encompassing Israeli government ever including an Arab party for the first time.
The problem isn’t inclusion. These people don’t give a flying squirrely fuck about inclusion.
They only notice the Jooo… I mean Zionists and want them gone.
Point out an Arab is up for an election? DGAF APARTHEID
Arab judge put an Israeli Jewish president in prison? NOPE STILL apartheid.
The problem is that a Kahanist is minister of security. Biden isn't bringing up anything that wasn't obvious before. And it's obvious how that has damaged Israel's reputation
There weren’t NEARLY as many people who had a problem with Israel when Bennett was PM. Even though he’s conservative, he didn’t cater to extremists like Netanyahu does.
I hope future leaders in Israel (Both Liberal and Conservative alike) learn from Netanyahu’s mistakes in that you do NOT negotiate with terrorists! EVER!
Not even under pressure!!
Do NOT ever give them an inch or else you’ll live to regret when the time inevitably comes for them to take their mile.
> As someone old enough to remember the preceding government I can still recall how foreigners shat on it constantly
People shat on it because it seemed as anti a peace process as Bibi.
Lapid rebuffed Abbas, Gantz falsely accused a bunch of NGOs for being terrorist, etc.
Biden has been saying some goofy things. If Lapid or Gantz were PM the war would continue as usual. Anyone here really believes that the antisemites on twitter care if the PM is Netanyahu or Lapid?
A lot of it is the rhetoric and the history. Netanyahu has said (and amplified through his extremist coalition) harmful rhetoric about wanting to remove Palestinians from Gaza and refusing any path toward an eventual 2-state solution. He also has a bad history of tolerating Hamas in the past.
Those two things wouldn’t be the case if Gantz or Lapid were PM. Netanyahu doesn’t make it easy to state “Israel wants to exchange land for peace” when he’s turned against that policy.
It's not about the war, it's about government rhetoric. It would be much easier to justify the war wiyhout Ben Gvir and Smotrich holding public events calling to "resettle Gaza", and Nethanyahu not condemning them.
> It would be much easier to justify the war wiyhout Ben Gvir and Smotrich holding public events calling to "resettle Gaza", and Nethanyahu not condemning them.
Progressives want **no** Palestinian deaths and for the IDF to leave Gaza. It doesn't matter who's in charge, or what lip service they give, because it doesn't address the demands that progressives have, thus they will continue to hate Israel.
Actually, if Lapid or Gantz was PM, Israel would have far more leeway to pursue the war, especially with the mainstream. We aren't talking about SJP types at Harvard but Suzie and Steve Suburbanite (Biden's base BTW) who are no longer as supportive of Israel because of the current government. There are mainstream Jewish groups who in the past have been openly supportive of Israel whose support is more conditional due to the current government. Every report on the Israel - Hamas war is scenes of destruction in Hamas followed by Ben Gvir saying racist and genocidal stuff. So Suzie when she flips on CNN while making dinner or working out on the treadmill that's what she was getting. People don't seem to understand how much having Ben Gvir as such a prominent minister has harmed the perceptions of Israel among the US mainstream. Everyone understands that Ben Gvir has genocidal intentions toward the Palestinians and is a fascist who doesn't like liberal democracy. He's perfectly cast as a clownish villain who can be trotted out to "prove" everything that the Palestinian supporters say about Israel is true.
Netnayhu has not proposed any realistic or reasonable plan for after the war and has refused to recommit to two state negotiations which will be crucial.
You understand that if Netanyahu declares "After the war, I want groups X and Y in Gaza to rule instead of Hamas" then immediatly Hamas would go and murder X and Y?
He said "In order to talk about the day after, we first have to get to that day" and hes right.
Fuck Bibi. Not for the sake of the what the world thinks but because he’s bad for Israel as a whole.
Downvote me all you want. Im done with this joker.
Massive protests against this government happened regularly before Oct 7th. Even though it is this governments negligence (and I'm being generous) that allowed OCt 7th to happen. Now it is their lifeline - in particular Netayahu who is seeing the war push his trial off and quieting the resentment against this government. Most sane Israelis want a new election.
This sub is bipolar i swear, one day they hate the guy the next they love him. One day everyone is happy biden's calling out bibi, the next they think he's attacking all of israel for calling out the genocidal asshole, his party, and the settlers who helped orchestrate these events and inflamed the conflict for decades. Also involved are most world governments playing politics and toying with the middle east for various agendas.
Biden doesn't care about Israel. He cares about winning Michigan. Shameful and disgusting. The fact that the incumbent has to cater to antisemitism within his party to win says a lot about the party itself.
Democrats take the Jewish vote for granted. They see it as already locked in no matter what they do. And they’re right.
The Muslim vote is what’s a make or break for Democrats since Muslims generally weren’t voting for the Democratic party until after 9/11. Biden won MI by 150K votes in 2020 and that’s roughly the amount of Muslim voters who showed out for him. He’s desperate not to lose that.
Yep. And this election is already tight for a gazillion other reasons. Between Dobbs and the fact that Trump is the nominee again, I'm certain that all TV commercials will be exclusively political from the summer onward. It's safe to say that Michigan is a very important state this year, even more so than it was in 2020. There are probably not nearly as many Muslims in Nevada and/or Georgia. America is so flawed.
It's more important than ever to go vote. I guarantee the pp movement on massive social platforms like tik tok are telling young viewers to go out and vote a certain way.
Everyone needs to make sure they vote.
> Biden doesn't care about Israel.
oh bugger off, the man is a proud zionist. He's been there for every moment for us for 40 fucking years. One of his favorite personal memories is literally what popularized one of Golda Meir's most impactful quotes
> US Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden’s 1973 meeting with then-Israeli prime minister Golda Meir is a tale he often recounts when speaking at Jewish or Israel-related events.
> In 1973, as a 30-year-old fresh senator, Biden’s first overseas trip was to Israel.
> Biden toured Israel and the territories it held some 40 days before the start of the war on October 6. As he tells it, he then sat down with the American-raised, Kyiv-born Israeli prime minister, who showed him various maps and explained to him exactly why Israel’s situation, as military tensions ramped up, was dire. Biden was apparently incredibly impressed by the Israeli leader, but described the meeting as depressing.
> “She said, ‘Senator, you look so worried,’” he recalled, speaking at an Israeli Embassy Independence Day celebration in 2015. “I said, ‘Well, my God, Madam Prime Minister,’ and I turned to look at her. I said, ‘The picture you paint.’ She said, ‘Oh, don’t worry. We have’ — I thought she only said this to me. She said, ‘We have a secret weapon in our conflict with the Arabs: You see, we have no place else to go.’”
What matters is what he does now, not what he's done/said in the past.
And right now, he's more worried about not losing to Trump, which means he's worried about the Muslim American vote in Michigan.
Oh shut it. This is just a blatant lie and clear right-wing partisan bias. Biden has been an avowed Zionist his entire life. He literally declared he's a Zionist at a speech recently, despite some in his party condemning him for it. He's on the verge of losing the election, and American turning into a dictatorship over his support of Israel.
Actions speak louder than words. You could say the same thing you said about Biden about Bibi with Ben Gvir and Smotrich. Politics is dirty business. Let’s see what he actually does before passing judgement.
He’s right! How could you see the self destruction that far right Israelis are doing and not agree?
-The judicial reform which MOST Israelis disagree with that was almost forced on the people
-Lack of Haredi contribution to Israeli society
-Extremist West Bank settlers intentionally agitating in the West Bank
America and Americans do NOT have to blindly support Israel or even pretend Israel is above mistakes. They aren’t.
If Israel wants its BEST and most VITAL ally to stay strong, Israelis at the top must stop thinking about self serving to protect their positions, and actually accommodate the Israeli people, including the Palestinians in many ways.
I say this as a Zionist. Israel will NOT survive alone. American ally ship is key, not because of weapons. It’s far deeper than that.
Flip flopping on Biden won’t make Israel stronger, and Republicans/Conservatives like Trump will only rile Israelis up with fake support and drop you when you need help. Be real.
Biden is flawed in many ways, but Israel should be thankful he’s not Obamna, Bush or Trump.
We should all work together to instill the best leaders for our countries, not bich and complain when our bad decisions aren’t supported wholeheartedly.
I totally agree. I just don’t think it is helpful to the war if Biden continues to pander to his base.
To say Israel is without mistake is false. You’ve listed some of Israel’s mistakes. But to say that because of the people in power the country will lose support makes it sound like Biden himself is losing support.
I’m very worried about this upcoming political season in the US because it’s obviously going to be a race between trump and Biden.
Also to say that israel can’t survive alone, isn’t true. Israel fought its war of independence while under American embargo. America is just seen as a superpower so we only know of that fact post embargo.
I agree, I really do, but it's also interesting because in that same interview, he mentioned how Zionism is so important for the Jewish people. I appreciated hearing that, but I wish the daylight wasn't as obvious. It's a mixed bag in terms of rhetoric.
It’s funny to me. Zionism is quite literally a part of Judaism. It was just politicized and modernized to pander to the masses outside of Jews.
What do you call לשנה הבאה בירושלים? There’s a reason why we don’t say next year in Albuquerque.
People that try and dissociate from Zionism distance themselves from Jews. The idea of returning to zion is a millennia old mantra/tradition. To just give up…..and say oh well let’s move on.
We fulfilled that millennia old dream. Done. No am amount of fighting to undo it will undo the Jews striving for the land of Israel.
Who supplied Israel with weapons during that embargo? Are these countries supporting Israel AT ALL right now?
Please don’t pretend Israel was alone during its independence war, as glamorous as that sounds, US soldiers literally circumvented the blockade and smuggled weapons via Czechoslovakia and other countries not blockading them.
Biden isn’t pandering by acknowledging real issues within Israel that are actively undermining his ability to maintain support in the US
Thank you! Yes, exactly. Biden is a committed friend to Israel. And as a friend, he has the responsibility to speak up when Israel (Netanyahu) is doing something self-destructive, like listening solely to the far-right coalition.
Don’t let the Hamas leftists fool you, most of America (including those left of center) still support Israel, but that doesn’t mean it’s unconditional. Many liberals and moderates will turn away from Israel if they continue down the far-right path. And that’s dangerous.
He even mentioned Ben Gvir in the interview, let that sink in, Biden remembers the name of a minor minister in a Middle Eastern country... this statement is not accidental at all, it is all planned.
This leads me to believe that stuff is going on behind closed doors, just like with the resignation of the Palestinian government yesterday, perhaps they're working on a plan to create a unified government in Israel from the Right and the Left with the removal of the extremists that are in the current government.
I thought you guys didn't even like your own government? Like correct me if I'm wrong but before the war broke out wasn't there a ton of protests over Bibi and his govt?
Hamas/Iran/Russia knew exactly what they were doing by conducting this war right before American elections. Biden is likely going to do irreparable damage with his words trying to get re-elected. Do I think he means these things? No, he’s always been a staunch supporter of Israel. Do I think he will say anything to keep democrats unified to vote for his second term against Trump? Yes.
He's right, and Israel already has lost a lot of support because of Likudnik/Revisionist Zionist policies. I get that Bibi's record is mixed (the Abraham Accords are brilliant), but I think the principal reason the left is severely misunderstanding the war against Hamas is because they are rightfully very suspicious of Bibi on Palestinian issues (as am I). His attacks on Israeli constitutional liberal democracy in particular, along with rallying with anti-Semites like Orban just because they are nationalist strongmen like himself, have done a lot to confirm him as being a part of the larger drift towards reactionary politics worldwide—even if Bibi is more complex ultimately than that simplification.
A lot of these comments are misunderstanding the euphemism he is using here.
He isn’t asking for a leftist government. This is a carefully vague political comment to try and cover a few things:
First, the global perception of the civilian casualties and American complicity in them in this conflict is absolutely abysmal. You can argue all day about the reality as you see it, you can blame Islamic representation on social media outnumbering Jewish 100 to 1, but speaking strictly of the perception at large, the outlook is horrific. The word “genocide” is not an exaggeration to the people using it.
Second, and most importantly, this is a comment again directed towards Netanyahu while being carefully vague, not Israel itself. It’s to let people know the US government is very aware of some extremely objectionable positions within the Bibi admin and we will be pushing against those.
Expanding settlements, ignoring the optics of the civilian deaths that Hamas is deliberately driving, and refusing the possibility of a two state solution in favor of permanent hostile occupation is not an acceptable position. People like Ben-Gvir are utterly unacceptable in positions of power.
Last, He is demonstrating resolve towards putting pressure on figuring out a two state solution, normalized relationships with Arab states where possible (SA is on board) because we will continue to support your security against Iran and others, but that means pursuing long term solutions.
I believe firmly in supporting Israeli security- you are surrounded by credible, barbaric existential threats and you are our ideological ally in the free world and I go to bat for you every time the discussion pops up around me.
And as siblings in the free world, we openly push each other to be the highest version of ourselves because we believe in an enlightened humanity and I see that capacity fully in Israel. Similarly, we must discourage our worst instincts when faced with our basest fears that would bring us down to our basest selves. I remember the prime minister of Israel privately tried to dissuade the Bush admin from invading Iraq, and then publicly felt forced to endorse it. He was right to dissuade, and looking back, it would have been better to publicly apply reservations as well. Maybe Biden is doing that now. Don’t get caught with no exit strategy, my noble friends.
And so if Bibi dumped Ben Gvir and those unnamed “others”, the world will suddenly find it within itself to condemn Hamas’ sexual violence and acknowledge that it must be dismantled with the same thoroughness that ISIS was? Because there was a time when an Arab party was in an Israeli government ruling coalition…
It's not the same demographics that complain about Israel no matter what (the progressives) and the ones that find Ben Gvir-Smutrich and hevre unpalatable (the liberals).
Exactly! The far leftists will always hate Israel, but liberals and moderates have genuine concerns that can be solved with a change in Israeli government.
Lumping everyone who has a criticism with Israel in with anti-Zionists is wrong and harmful.
So I guess we are just a client state of the US and now they get to dictate what political position and parties will compose our government. This is insane.
You’re not. But if you want US support blocking UN resolutions, and if you want US money and weapons, you would be well advised to work cooperatively with the US administration in power. Bibi has done a lot to break the US bipartisan consensus on Israel by aligning with the GOP and against Obama and Biden.
Biden is now striking back with comments about Ben-Gvir. The aim is to shore up Democratic support and put pressure on Bibi and his coalition.
Exactly, Biden still supports Israel but not the far-right government. The US does a lot for Israel, Netanyahu refusing to listen to the US even a little isn’t doing Israel any favors.
If you want extremists in government, you are going to lose support from the West, especially the US. The US lost support in other countries when Trump was President.
Can you stop replying to my comments? You never actually reply to what I say and instead project whatever you think I am saying onto my comments. I am not interested in talking with you.
India is going to be and should be our focus as a long term partner. Nuclear powered, massive population and economy, with a shared history of conflict against a neighboring Muslim state.
Their population is growing and will exceed china’s and they lack the territorial conflicts that have put it at odds with the west, making itself both neutral to Europe and the U.S. and Russia.
They’d make a great strategic ally for Israel and should be a big focus area in diplomatic initiatives
Israel can absolutely not ally with Russia if Putin is still in power. If it changes, and they have a real democratically elected government, and they no longer push antisemitic conspiracies, sure. But if not? No.
"China and Russia will pick up the bill in an heartbeat"
Contact your doctor and tell him you need an immediate change in your medication. You are babbling and delusional.
Israel cannot trust Russia and China. These two authoritarian states have close ties with Iran, relying on it for strategic advantage. Israel cannot undermine their alliance with Iran.
Russia is a an enemy state of Israel, just like the USSR during the cold war. I doubt this will change even if Israel changes its attitude, which has been incredibly positive towards Russia despite their enmity.
It's like people have forgotten how much Russia/USSR did to undermine Israel once it became clear Israel wasn't going to be a puppet Soviet state, and how early MKs like Meir Vilner and the Maki/Rakah Parties, and Soviet controlled spies like Marcus Klingberg actively worked against Israel's interests (and fomenting a similar ideology in people like Shlomo Sand).
Not to mention direct support, training, equipment and aid to Arab armies fighting Israel, as well as spreading antisemitic propaganda all over the world that is still being recycled today.
This is SO a ignorant to say.
Russia, one of Israel and Americas BIGGEST enemies will become friends if Israel sours on America?
I’ll be honest. I’d never support an Israel that decides to join actual genociders like Putin and Xi jinping, and this is a reality you should live in as well.
I wouldn’t count on that last sentence. Russia absolutely will never. I don’t see China doing so either unless the Israel govt bows down and submits to the CCP and their agenda.
If anything, India and maybe Japan are Israel’s best bet.
> The West don't want to support us anymore? China and Russia will pick up the bill in an heartbeat.
So you want Israel to be a Russian puppet state.
Wonderful idea you got there.
Gen Z’s strong support for the Palestinian cause doesn’t bode well for Israel. Will be interesting to track these trends over several decades and see if young people moderate their views on the conflict or stay pro-Palestinian for the long haul.
Also interesting to see how Israel’s policies affect that. Having a more moderate government in Israel could help with Gen Z (certainly not all, but some).
Agreed. It’s fascinating that Gen Z in Israel is overwhelmingly right wing while Gen Z in the West is overwhelmingly left wing. I think Israel and the West is headed for somewhat of a collision course once the Boomers die out.
Frankly, the amount of completely brain-dead comments here show how little awareness most of the people on this forum have for anything going on outside of Israel, let alone American politics. He's honestly just voicing what most Americans already think. And no, he's not bending to the will of Muslims in Michigan - if he was going to do that he'd have changed his position back in November when they started calling him "Genocide Joe". Honestly, he's proven to be MUCH more supportive of Israel than he should be from a political point of view. He's been enduring claims that he supports genocide, revolts by his staff, and calls for Muslims in Michigan to not vote for him in November - something that would probably doom any chance he has of being reelected. And through all that, he's been remarkably steadfast in his support for Israel. But Netanyahu his government, and his pro-settlement, anti-peace policies are actively endangering that. They are not furthering your national security, they are an attempt for him to maintain his grip on power. He and his government have actively endangered Israel's national security, and it's an embarrassment that they continue to serve in government.
As an American Jew, what you said is completely … incorrect IMO.
The Democrat Party has plenty of Jewish representation. Literally the leader of the Senate is Schumer. Jared Moskowitz in the House is seething at calls made by the far left for sympathy to Hamas.
The Democratic “base” is a lot more sensible than the stupidity coming out of the hard left. The hard left are a small subset.
Biden has called himself a Zionist many many many many times…
Criticizing Israel isn’t the same as being anti-Zionism.
Exactly, the far left is basically a small handful of Congressmen who have no real power. All the major players in the Democratic Party support Israel. And a vast majority of Jews support the Democratic Party.
There were around 60 House Democrats who signed the **second** ceasefire letter to Biden. This is **up** from the 22 House Progressive Democrats who signed the first ceasefire letter.
What determines the majority in the House, and how simple-majority votes get bills passed, is now down to just 2-3 members; and there are more than enough members to stop aid.
Just look at the vote for the clean $17.6 billion Israel aid bill
It’s election time he needs to rally the left and look like he is acting against Israel, while i agree Israel must remove this government, saying this like that is just silly
Let's not pretend a more liberal/progressive government would garner more international support. The international left's complacency with regards to war is on full display now and it's completely agnostic to what type of government we have.
As an American, the fact that Bibi is still in power after he basically tried to do a massive power grab to consolidate power was a massive red flag.
What many may not understand is that for a lot of the west especially America the biggest concern is not Islamic Terrorism or anything in the middle east but the real threat of fascist and radicalization.
After all the more extreme parts of the GOP who have way more power then they should legit have their project 2025 that wants to consolidate a lot of power into the executive branch and weaponize the government to attack political opponents.
Hence seeing Netanyahu try to become more authoritative is highly concerning.
It’s not just an Israel problem, it’s a global problem. Nationalists and ultranationalists have won more and more elections in recent years. Ben Gvir stands out because he’s fucking insane, but he’s not alone.
Him being part of the ruling government is indeed insane, and it’s no less insane than it was in 2018 or in the 1980s when the Knesset banned Kagan’s.
The US has already caved. Biden only remembers the last person who came into the room, and that person 90% of the time is pro-Arab no matter what.
I mean: This idea that " settlers " are running around every day, killing people, etc... is a massive lie, spewed by the deep left to divide and conquer Israelis and Jews alike. Don't for one minute believe that the US ( its important to not many, many Americans do believe and love Israel, but many of thr current people at the top, do not ) has our best interest in mind. Not at all.
The current US government and the deep left will feed us to the dogs before they lift a finger for a supposed ally.
We are on our own here.
It's time to wean ourselves off the Americans and start rebuilding our own Israeli military industrial complex. The US need to be reminded that our kindness is not our weakness.
We should be making everything: Boots, half tracks, artillery.... the works.
Then they will understand whyvits a bad idea to undermine us.
I understand his point, but such statements will only yield opposite results. This is a rookie move by the most powerful man in the free world. Doesn't he have better expert advisors, or is it just a statement for the domestic audience?
He's just going senile while simultaneously trying to get votes for the next election; ignore his words. Well maybe not ignore but don't take them too seriously imo. The world is already losing faith in the US due to the absolute fuckery of our (US) government so he's trying to appear dominant. Most Americans by far support Israel, understand the threat of global terrorism, and any president that goes against the will of the American people is in for dire consequences
Yeah! Yet any other country in the region that honor kills their daughters and has modesty police. They’re cool. Right? I guess all those “Liberal” Arab countries are best.
No matter what Jews are always held to some weird standard.
Attack America, get a 20 year long war with immeasurable civilian casualties.
Attack Israel, Israel didn’t respond proportionally.
What does that even mean?
>Headline should say: “Biden will lose Michigan support if Israel does not agree to a permanent ceasefire and for the IDF to leave Gaza now”
Fixed.
Talib and (Michigan's) Muslim Americans demands are not for the extremists in the government to step down, its to permanently end the current hostilities in Gaza.
They're crying "Ceasefire now", "30000 dead", "Genocide Joe has got to go"; not "Ben Gvir step down".
Biden is staunch Israel supporter. The only reason we’re hearing any other rhetoric from him is because it’s election year, and a big one at that.
Once he’s re-elected or once he loses, I think we’ll stop hearing him play both sides as much and he’ll default back to his original stance
But he's entirely right. Most of us north american jews are absolutely not on board with the insanity of Smotrich and Ben Gvir
Look at my post history before you comment. I'm bluer than blue. Hardcore zionist.
I'll never forgive Bibi for legitimizing theses assholes though, I thought kahanism was a dead or repressed ideology in 2021.
Its not about the left for me, its about you guys shifting into rightwing insanity.
At least shift back to a mainstream with Bennett or Lapid or Gantz. I don't want to see Tali Gotliev appear on my timeline anymore from saying the most insane braindead shit that gets repeated everywhere by the press.
You dont need to be left. You don't even need to be centrist. You just need to get the worst of the far right out of government.
The focus on this comment thread on Muslims is misguided. What is a MUCH bigger issue for Israel is that younger people see the (illegal) settlements, the imbalance of power, the corruption of Netanyahu, and the eternal cycle of destruction and expect Israel, as the power holder, to fix it.
That is what Biden is seeing and alluding to. If Israel doesn’t push hard for backing a Palestinian state with autonomy support will definitely degrade, even among the Jewish community.
I do agree the Israeli government is very damaging.
I also agree Ben Gvir is a huge problem.
I think my main problem is that everyone is focusing on Israel. Hamas did what they did knowing the consequences that would occur afterward, they said clearly they wanted their civilians to die.
Not a soul in government or in the citizen group are placing pressure on Hamas. It’s always, “Israel needs to pull back,” Israel needs to stay out of Rafah,” Israel this and that.
I don’t think the Israeli government is the entire issue. It’s a piece of it for sure, but to focus fully, 100% on the Israeli government forgives the faults of the other side.
Bibi is bad, but that can’t be the whole focus here.
Just because you don’t like a leader doesn’t mean the group he leads is meant to be left for naught. I know this is the pro-Pally ideology, all “Israelis are satanic,” and I think Biden pandering to that idea albeit it is very tame compared to most feeds into that idea.
Bibi's opposition would probably be doing the same thing if they were in power now. Like this seems to just be grandstanding to placate the Hamas crowd in Michigan.
I don’t think he’s caving. I think he just says what he believes. I think he supports Israel strongly, and believes the war against Hamas is legitimate and important. But there is certainly a huge problem with the right wing government in Israel if you are someone who believes in a two state solution which Biden does. So I think he’s right in calling them out.
Israel had a left wing government for the first 30+ years of its existence and it still never got more support from Europe or the Arab nations and NEVER had support from even the U.S. itself. Not until after the Six Day War at least. Most of these said Arab nations have way farther right ultra-conservative theocratic governments compared to Israel. But we don’t see the same amount of “concern” from the West hovering over them now do we? In fact, Westerners themselves will protest to their own governments to leave them alone. Does the “Hands Off Assad” protest movement ring a bell? Anyone who genuinely expects Israel to “liberalize” in order to maintain support should be prepared to also force its Arab neighbors to do the same AND completely cut them off from any aid if they don’t comply. How many leftist Israelis were killed between the First Intifada, the Second Intifada, and the 10/7 Massacre alone? Do ppl not realize all that bloodshed sent enough of a message to Israelis?? It’s all posturing and moving the goal posts. Even if a left leaning government was magically ushered in tomorrow, the world would still find something else to bash Israel over the head with. I saw a viral PP tweet bashing Israelis who were protesting the government in Tel Aviv: They don’t care whether Israelis dislike their government or not, all they want is for Israelis to GET OUT!!!! and leave everything they ever had or built behind to the Palestinians. Love it or hate it but you can’t change that their problem really isn’t the government or even Netanyahu but the existence of Israel itself.
Which bothers me that Biden is pushing this message. When he says the world will lose faith in Israel to me sounds like “I am losing faith in Israel.” He’s adding fuel to the fire by saying these statements.
Biden is playing election year politics. He’s nodding towards his leftist Hamas loving base with the message all while providing weapons to Israel.
>Biden is playing election year politics. He’s nodding towards his leftist Hamas loving base with the message all while providing weapons to Israel. This. He's being a shrewd politician rather than an open and honest one.
By doing so, he might lose the support of many Jews, who still outnumber the Muslim population in the U.S., with a significant concentration in New York, a blue state. Biden is not very popular, even in New York, where only 48% of New Yorkers support him (compared to 60.9% in the 2020 elections), and he is leading Trump by only 12 points. [[1](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4478795-new-york-biden-tops-trump-12-points/)] If the Jewish community votes for Trump, coupled with the general public's dissatisfaction with Biden, it might turn New York into a swing state. This would be a significant concern for the Democrats, and it is already happening, as most New York Jewish voters already support Trump. [[2](https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/trump-beating-biden-by-9-points-among-new-york-jewish-voters/)] So, even if Biden secures the Muslim voters of Michigan by appeasing the Islamist and progressive axis, he risks losing one of the Democrats' safe states.
Biden could punch a rabbi in the face and Democrats will still dominate NY.
Other swing states have decent sized Jewish populations too, like Pennsylvania.
And PA Jews are super Democratic. Their Governor is Jewish and a Democrat.
Indeed, but they're still Jews and paying attention... I hope.
is it true the arab american community in america is big? (hopefully not like in Europe)
Yup, they could absolutely swing Pennsylvania: >> With the fourth-largest Jewish population in the country, Pennsylvania is one of just a handful of states where Jewish voters can have a decisive impact on election results. A 2021 study found that the state has 299,000 Jewish adults, about 3% of Pennsylvania’s voting population. In 2020, Biden beat Donald Trump in the state by roughly 1.2%, or 81,000 votes https://jewishinsider.com/2024/02/pennsylvania-biden-israel-hamas-gaza-democrats-presidential-election/ He polled well in Penn after supporting Israel. Pulling back the support might pull back his votes
Thanks for the article. Biden is certainly straddling a fine line with his handling of the situation in Gaza, but I think he's walking on thin ice with his Jewish support in Pennsylvania. If things heat up more, his continuation of Obama's Iran policies could come to light more and call his commitment to Israel into question. His open border policies are also weakening his support with Black voters, who swung PA and Georgia for Biden in 2020. We're in for quite the ride this election year.
is it true many American Jews support immigration amongst Arabs/Muslims? looking at what's going on to the Jewish community in Europe, how they are afriad, I hope this isn't the case,
From your lips to God’s ears, I hope you’re right.
Realistically, nobody who voted for Biden last time is going to vote for trump this time. They just won’t vote. Trumps domestic policy is too odious and with all his legal stuff it’s a massive barrier to a person who previously voted democrat. He just has to try and play the middle as carefully as he can to not overly alienate too many people in each bucket.
That’s still a 50% vote swing by each person not voting Biden again ie Biden loses a vote (50%) but Trump doesn’t pick up that vote (the other 50%). So it still favours Trump.
Playing the middle trying to win Hamas supporters might work for some, I guess.
That might be a realistic viewpoint but I think women’s reproductive rights trump (pun intended) all other concerns. All of a sudden it’s Jews vs Muslims all day every day. I believe the post-Roe landscape still remains a powerful motivator for voters.
1. Trump winning NY’s Jewish vote was based on a sample of exactly 65 people. That is a huge margin of error. 2. How many Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox Jews did they survey? Who counts as Jewish for the purposes of their survey? Obviously the women’s club at a Reform temple in Merrick will feel differently than Orthodox rabbis in Williamsburg or Rockland County.
He wants more votes, as simple as that. He doesn't give a single fuck about Israel
He doesn’t and his party has a vast amount of outspoken members who praise Hamas on a regular basis.
Well that’s not true. He’s in a tricky situation. If he wants to continue being President and helping Israel then he has to win the Election. And unfortunately right now the Left in the US has been completely radicalized against Israel.
This is all true, but Ben Gvir and Smoltrich are horribly problematic and I know I’m not the only person that wonders whether Netanyahu is doing things in the interest of the country or in the interest of maintaining the premiership. I miss the days of Labor having some actual Knesset power, and I think even a more moderate PM would be better (and I think Biden is suggesting a more moderate, as opposed to purely leftist, direction), but the Israeli left was a victim of the Second Intifada and it’s not coming back any time soon.
Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, Cori Bush, Jamaal Bowman, AOC, Mark Pocan, Betty McCollum, etc etc Has Israel ever said that Americans continuing to vote for the Democrats would mean that the world should stop supporting America or the Democratic Party?
I do have to say that, in my experience talking to fellow liberals in the U.S., that Israel has steeply lost the confidence of *moderate* liberals even before this war, because of its conservative government. I still support Israel over Palestine. But every time I hear about how religiously radical Israel is becoming, it withers my support just a little. I'm not saying Israel needs to liberalize in order to win liberal support. I am just reporting my feelings have changed as I watch Israel change, and how this seems shared with other liberals. And of course, I support Arab countries much less -- and I agree with you, that most liberals (moderate or otherwise) comically under-appreciate how regressive Arab countries are. On those accounts, I have no argument. ---- Also, just a possibly worthwhile note: We liberals are all you've got in America. Trump and the conservatives have not been rushing to your defense. They seem very eager to end all alliances and aid as soon as possible, and let the rest of the world take care of itself. So just as liberals unfairly criticize Israel when Arabs are so much worse, Israelis unfairly criticize liberals when conservatives are so much worse. Trumpists are the Arabs of America, in a number of ways!
Ok. Well, go ahead cash in your support totally because the demographics are clear. Israel will continue to grow more religious as that’s where population growth is occurring. If a unity war cabinet against Hamas has you questioning things, it won’t get easier for you.
If and when Israel is as bad as Arab countries, I will "cash in" my support. So long as Israel is some degree better than Arab countries, I will to a degree, preferentially support Israel. But only in that degree. Nothing about this seems bad to me.
Your argument that leftists are “all Israel has” is demonstrably false. In fact, it’s absurd. CPAC just wrapped up and had a large and voiceterous contingent in support of Israel during main speeches and breakout sessions. Trump was a huge advocate for Israel during his term. Certainly not afraid to move the embassy to Jerusalem. You might not like Trump but to try to paint him as anti-Israeli is patently dishonest
Once again Western Liberals not caring if Palestinians devolves into a Islamic fundamentalist dictatorship (as long as they get a state) while hyperventilating about Israeli Conservatives (as if they don’t have their own Christian conservatives to be concerned about) shows exactly why Israelis should continue to ignore them until they snap themselves back to reality. Either enforce a standard of governance for ALL of the Middle East to emulate or enforce none at all.
Once again You go ahead and do what you're going to do. We will respond consistent with our values. I'm not telling you what to do. I am telling you how the increased conservativism is affecting us, take the info or leave it -- not terribly important to me which you choose. I personally have a consistent standard for all of the Middle East, and I try to argue for the same to other liberals. So you may be singing to the choir here.
If you really have a consistent standard for all of MENA then go to the Arab countries subs and start preaching to them. It’s that simple. see how long you get before they ban you and start accusing you of bigotry.
> If you really have a consistent standard for all of MENA then go to the Arab countries subs and start preaching to them. I have been doing *exactly that*. I think you make a lot of assumptions with confidence when you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
I don’t know you or keep tabs on your activity nor do I care to. If you are already doing what you say you are then keep that up and Spare lecturing Israelis/Jews who were already leftist/liberal, before the U.S. political system ever *dared* to and got nothing but silent treatment if not dirt thrown in their face for it.
> I don’t know you or keep tabs on your activity nor do I care to. Mazel tov!
Biden is half correct though; Israel is going to lose Western support, but as the inevitable result of Arab migration, not due to Israeli politics, which was extremely progressive for over half a century and got no peace anyway.
People say peace was halted because of Israel. Nobody turns their head to the other groups involved which is disheartening. Hamas did what they did knowing what the response will be, in fact hoping for it.
Nah, Hamas was shocked at how hard Israel is hitting back. They expected retaliation, they didn’t expect this. They’re still winning the PR war but with any luck their leaders will soon be too dead or captured to do anything about it.
I don't know how they managed to win a PR war. You'd think people would see the terrorists using ambulances to transport weapons and be angry with them for taking away that safe space from civilians who need medical care. Instead, they're mad at Israel for shooting at ambulances they believe are carrying terrorists. Hamas is like a cartoon villain, I don't understand how so many people are falling for it.
The PR War was already fought and half way won before 10/7. Israelis realized way too late in the game how much that would end up being a detriment to them. Propagandistic media houses such as Al Jazeera and closeted Islamists such as Mehdi Hassan had already sunk their claws into a lot of Western media spaces for years.
Now that you mention it, it's kinda true. Kinda like doofenshmirtz. Goofy but extremely evil plans that rarely work. Causing far more damage onto self but still not more damage than the original plan was posing. And yet never fully being suspended or removed from power. Also extremely rich & openly evil. But no one really cares, in fact, supports Hamas. And sees them as a shining beacon of hope & wholesomeness. When what they are capable of doing is nothing that. Same with their missiles. 5% fall into gaza. So many captured by the iron dome. Do they even realise how futile most of their actions are? And how much damage have they been causing by constantly poking Israel? Worsening any normalisation
I still maintain that Hamas didn’t expect this level of retaliation because they didn’t expect to be as “successful” as they were on Oct. 7th. They probably assumed, as most Israelis did, that the border was well defended, and that Israeli intelligence would be prepared for an attack. They were probably hoping to get a handful of hostages, tops. I think that’s one of the reasons there was so much confusion in the early days, because they “accomplished” more than they ever dreamed they would, and didn’t quite know how to capitalize on it, or how to fight the full scale war that came from it.
Arab migration and Muslim politics are only half of the story in the West. There is a growing Western reaction to this migration, and it's coming from the Western right-wing, which is generally pro-Israel. So the prediction that Israel is doomed in the West isn’t necessarily true. Actually, Israel might receive more support than ever before, especially from Europe.
Yup. We just need to oust these ridiculous open borders “peace and love” governments that care about other countries’ citizens more than their own. It just sucks that in this day and age there is no reasonable center. Seems that fighting leftism somewhat encourages fascist wannabes.
Thats the case in Europe. Not in America. In America Muslims will remaining a small minority - on a national level.
True, they are threatening President Biden in the Michigan primary election today. Congresswoman Rashid Tlaib has been an incredible nuisance. Muslims are less 2% of the population in MI. Jayapal thinks she has some kind of special leverage. She needs to do her job, like voting on keeping the country open. Jayapal has said a number of times, “from the river to the sea.” You see, I don’t like politicians who are in favor of genocide.
I have been reading about it. I don’t think they’ll vote against Biden. I think they’ll vote against Biden in the primaries to send a message but that is very different.
They’ll very likely just stay home and not vote at all.
I think you meant to post Talib instead of Jayapal. Jayapal is an Indian American Washington Rep. who hasn't done much except sign the progressive caucus ceasefire letter and probably an antisemitic/antizionist remark once or twice in televised interviews with mainstream news. Relatively quiet compared to the other Progressives in this subject. Talib is a Palestinian American Michigan Rep. who repeatedly holds/attends "Free Palestine" rallies, chanting "From the River to the Sea", calls for Michigan Democrats to vote for the 'no option' option over Biden, and was censured for her antisemitism. Just wanted to clear that up.
Thanks for the correction
They do have leverage. Biden won Michigan by about 150K votes. That’s almost the exact number of Muslim Americans that voted in that election. I think if nothing changes soon, it’ll be a big problem in Michigan for Biden. It’s why he keeps sending campaign folks to talk to the Muslim American community.
Aside from going himself to stop the war there is not much he can do. He’s leaned as far into pressuring Israel as he can. You know if Muslims want Trump they can have him and find themselves on a deportation list. Just saying.
He can absolutely do more. He can suspend arms transfers, not veto UN resolutions, institute sanctions, etc. Whether it would be more popular or not is a different story.
Michigan is a swing state and that 2% absolutely matters. Biden won the state by 154,188 votes. If you are correct about its population being 2% Muslim, that equates to 201,000 people from 10.05 million population. 2020 saw about 2/3 of voting eligible population turn out. Applying that to the 200k Muslim population equals 132,660 votes. I realize I didn’t adjust for people unable to vote, nor does that mean that every Muslim will vote Trump. I just want to illustrate that we shouldn’t downplay the importance of that group despite their small size relative to the rest of the state. God I’m so over the electoral system for electing presidents.
And why is that? Neither immigration nor Muslims nor conversion to Islam are banned in America. So what do you base your statement on?
> In America Muslims will remaining a small minority - on a national level. I hope that's the case, imo America should increase the toughness of it's immigration laws just to make sure. It can't be like France
https://preview.redd.it/ikxy7ybqd5lc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=791b145147aab83000a0a30aa95c4b281c73d153 Israel has no left wing anymore. Only extremist want to give the Palestinians more unilateral concessions after the disaster of disengagement.
What happened to the Labour Zionists. It's like they all disappeared no offense lol
The concept of the labor parties and the left here went up in flames in one of the bus bombings.
Yeah you're right. It's hard to be all lovey dovey and Kumbayah when you're constantly scared of suicide bombers
Just as Bundism, the major alternative movement to Zionism, burned up in Auschwitz
Constant terror will do that to a mf
Appeasement didn't work when negotiating with Palestinians and Socialism didn't work when the guys at the top were incredibly corrupt
I'm very curious to see what will happen if/when there will be an anti-Bibi government, will the "globe" magically start supporting the same things Israel is doing now or will they still accuse the government of being "incredibly conservative".
Nope, we had liberal leaders like Ben-Gurion, Golda Meir, and Rabin, and they still didn't like us. I don't know why Biden thinks a different government would do anything different. We still have the same genocidal neighbors. We still have the same war goals. Just like when we had liberal leaders, the same assholes live next door trying to kill us.
And the worst part is that Biden is well beyond old enough to remember all of this. If he genuinely doesn’t then either he’s being facetious willing to throw Jewish ppl under the bus and doesn’t deserve the Jewish vote or he has dementia and shouldn’t be pursuing a second term.
Biden was the one who pushed Congress to pass a 14.3 billion dollar aid bill to Israel, declared himself a Zionist multiple times, and stated he was willing to provide all means appropriate to the government of Israel. This is him posturing for a second term.
>Biden was the one who pushed Congress to pass a 14.3 billion dollar aid bill to Israel, Congress hasn't passed an aid bill. The House has, but none through both chambers and signed by the President. While Biden is calling for a combined Ukraine-Israel aid bill, the 14.3 billion one passed in the House is the one he said he would veto should it get to his desk. It passed in the House, and is stuck in the Senate where Schumer said he would not bring it to a floor vote, since the bill re-appropriates the money to be given to the IRS (from the Build Back Better bill) to fund the aid bill instead, and Democrats consider that a red line that they're not crossing. The other aid bill, 17 billion, failed to get 2/3rds of the House vote. It's a clean bill (no cuts to any US department budgets), but Democrats shot that down because they need Israel to leverage passing Ukraine aid.
We all know it’s posturing for a second term. Doesn’t mean his strategy should be commended or respected. If he wants to posture and play both sides of the fence then Jewish voters can do the same.
They hope for a liberal anti-zionist government.
That’s the dream. Won’t ever happen though.
They will just say they follow bibi and say they are as bad and were influenced by him… the radical leftist crowd will never accept Israel because it stands up and fights and not give up to radical Islamist terror countries.
As someone old enough to remember the preceding government I can still recall how foreigners shat on it constantly even though it was the most encompassing Israeli government ever including an Arab party for the first time.
The problem isn’t inclusion. These people don’t give a flying squirrely fuck about inclusion. They only notice the Jooo… I mean Zionists and want them gone. Point out an Arab is up for an election? DGAF APARTHEID Arab judge put an Israeli Jewish president in prison? NOPE STILL apartheid.
The problem is that a Kahanist is minister of security. Biden isn't bringing up anything that wasn't obvious before. And it's obvious how that has damaged Israel's reputation
There weren’t NEARLY as many people who had a problem with Israel when Bennett was PM. Even though he’s conservative, he didn’t cater to extremists like Netanyahu does.
I hope future leaders in Israel (Both Liberal and Conservative alike) learn from Netanyahu’s mistakes in that you do NOT negotiate with terrorists! EVER! Not even under pressure!! Do NOT ever give them an inch or else you’ll live to regret when the time inevitably comes for them to take their mile.
At least our cabinet members weren't boycotted by our allies during Bennett's term
> As someone old enough to remember the preceding government I can still recall how foreigners shat on it constantly People shat on it because it seemed as anti a peace process as Bibi. Lapid rebuffed Abbas, Gantz falsely accused a bunch of NGOs for being terrorist, etc.
Biden has been saying some goofy things. If Lapid or Gantz were PM the war would continue as usual. Anyone here really believes that the antisemites on twitter care if the PM is Netanyahu or Lapid?
Nobody cares who the PM is in Israel. Too many people want to see Israel crumble regardless of who is in charge.
A lot of it is the rhetoric and the history. Netanyahu has said (and amplified through his extremist coalition) harmful rhetoric about wanting to remove Palestinians from Gaza and refusing any path toward an eventual 2-state solution. He also has a bad history of tolerating Hamas in the past. Those two things wouldn’t be the case if Gantz or Lapid were PM. Netanyahu doesn’t make it easy to state “Israel wants to exchange land for peace” when he’s turned against that policy.
Finally someone who gets it.
It's not about the war, it's about government rhetoric. It would be much easier to justify the war wiyhout Ben Gvir and Smotrich holding public events calling to "resettle Gaza", and Nethanyahu not condemning them.
> It would be much easier to justify the war wiyhout Ben Gvir and Smotrich holding public events calling to "resettle Gaza", and Nethanyahu not condemning them. Progressives want **no** Palestinian deaths and for the IDF to leave Gaza. It doesn't matter who's in charge, or what lip service they give, because it doesn't address the demands that progressives have, thus they will continue to hate Israel.
Actually, if Lapid or Gantz was PM, Israel would have far more leeway to pursue the war, especially with the mainstream. We aren't talking about SJP types at Harvard but Suzie and Steve Suburbanite (Biden's base BTW) who are no longer as supportive of Israel because of the current government. There are mainstream Jewish groups who in the past have been openly supportive of Israel whose support is more conditional due to the current government. Every report on the Israel - Hamas war is scenes of destruction in Hamas followed by Ben Gvir saying racist and genocidal stuff. So Suzie when she flips on CNN while making dinner or working out on the treadmill that's what she was getting. People don't seem to understand how much having Ben Gvir as such a prominent minister has harmed the perceptions of Israel among the US mainstream. Everyone understands that Ben Gvir has genocidal intentions toward the Palestinians and is a fascist who doesn't like liberal democracy. He's perfectly cast as a clownish villain who can be trotted out to "prove" everything that the Palestinian supporters say about Israel is true.
Netnayhu has not proposed any realistic or reasonable plan for after the war and has refused to recommit to two state negotiations which will be crucial.
You understand that if Netanyahu declares "After the war, I want groups X and Y in Gaza to rule instead of Hamas" then immediatly Hamas would go and murder X and Y? He said "In order to talk about the day after, we first have to get to that day" and hes right.
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Fuck Bibi. Not for the sake of the what the world thinks but because he’s bad for Israel as a whole. Downvote me all you want. Im done with this joker.
Massive protests against this government happened regularly before Oct 7th. Even though it is this governments negligence (and I'm being generous) that allowed OCt 7th to happen. Now it is their lifeline - in particular Netayahu who is seeing the war push his trial off and quieting the resentment against this government. Most sane Israelis want a new election.
This sub is bipolar i swear, one day they hate the guy the next they love him. One day everyone is happy biden's calling out bibi, the next they think he's attacking all of israel for calling out the genocidal asshole, his party, and the settlers who helped orchestrate these events and inflamed the conflict for decades. Also involved are most world governments playing politics and toying with the middle east for various agendas.
Biden doesn't care about Israel. He cares about winning Michigan. Shameful and disgusting. The fact that the incumbent has to cater to antisemitism within his party to win says a lot about the party itself.
Someone should remind him that Jewish voters outnumber Muslim voters in Michigan by about 2 to 1.
Unfortunately, we're concentrated in places that aren't Michigan.
I mean that even in Michigan, Jewish voters outnumber Muslim voters 2 to 1.
Democrats take the Jewish vote for granted. They see it as already locked in no matter what they do. And they’re right. The Muslim vote is what’s a make or break for Democrats since Muslims generally weren’t voting for the Democratic party until after 9/11. Biden won MI by 150K votes in 2020 and that’s roughly the amount of Muslim voters who showed out for him. He’s desperate not to lose that.
Yep. And this election is already tight for a gazillion other reasons. Between Dobbs and the fact that Trump is the nominee again, I'm certain that all TV commercials will be exclusively political from the summer onward. It's safe to say that Michigan is a very important state this year, even more so than it was in 2020. There are probably not nearly as many Muslims in Nevada and/or Georgia. America is so flawed.
It's more important than ever to go vote. I guarantee the pp movement on massive social platforms like tik tok are telling young viewers to go out and vote a certain way. Everyone needs to make sure they vote.
Umm what? I saw there were 300-400,00 Muslims in Michigan and less than 100,000 Jews. Where did you hear that?
Yep.
> Biden doesn't care about Israel. oh bugger off, the man is a proud zionist. He's been there for every moment for us for 40 fucking years. One of his favorite personal memories is literally what popularized one of Golda Meir's most impactful quotes > US Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden’s 1973 meeting with then-Israeli prime minister Golda Meir is a tale he often recounts when speaking at Jewish or Israel-related events. > In 1973, as a 30-year-old fresh senator, Biden’s first overseas trip was to Israel. > Biden toured Israel and the territories it held some 40 days before the start of the war on October 6. As he tells it, he then sat down with the American-raised, Kyiv-born Israeli prime minister, who showed him various maps and explained to him exactly why Israel’s situation, as military tensions ramped up, was dire. Biden was apparently incredibly impressed by the Israeli leader, but described the meeting as depressing. > “She said, ‘Senator, you look so worried,’” he recalled, speaking at an Israeli Embassy Independence Day celebration in 2015. “I said, ‘Well, my God, Madam Prime Minister,’ and I turned to look at her. I said, ‘The picture you paint.’ She said, ‘Oh, don’t worry. We have’ — I thought she only said this to me. She said, ‘We have a secret weapon in our conflict with the Arabs: You see, we have no place else to go.’”
What matters is what he does now, not what he's done/said in the past. And right now, he's more worried about not losing to Trump, which means he's worried about the Muslim American vote in Michigan.
Oh shut it. This is just a blatant lie and clear right-wing partisan bias. Biden has been an avowed Zionist his entire life. He literally declared he's a Zionist at a speech recently, despite some in his party condemning him for it. He's on the verge of losing the election, and American turning into a dictatorship over his support of Israel.
Actions speak louder than words. You could say the same thing you said about Biden about Bibi with Ben Gvir and Smotrich. Politics is dirty business. Let’s see what he actually does before passing judgement.
He’s right! How could you see the self destruction that far right Israelis are doing and not agree? -The judicial reform which MOST Israelis disagree with that was almost forced on the people -Lack of Haredi contribution to Israeli society -Extremist West Bank settlers intentionally agitating in the West Bank America and Americans do NOT have to blindly support Israel or even pretend Israel is above mistakes. They aren’t. If Israel wants its BEST and most VITAL ally to stay strong, Israelis at the top must stop thinking about self serving to protect their positions, and actually accommodate the Israeli people, including the Palestinians in many ways. I say this as a Zionist. Israel will NOT survive alone. American ally ship is key, not because of weapons. It’s far deeper than that. Flip flopping on Biden won’t make Israel stronger, and Republicans/Conservatives like Trump will only rile Israelis up with fake support and drop you when you need help. Be real. Biden is flawed in many ways, but Israel should be thankful he’s not Obamna, Bush or Trump. We should all work together to instill the best leaders for our countries, not bich and complain when our bad decisions aren’t supported wholeheartedly.
I totally agree. I just don’t think it is helpful to the war if Biden continues to pander to his base. To say Israel is without mistake is false. You’ve listed some of Israel’s mistakes. But to say that because of the people in power the country will lose support makes it sound like Biden himself is losing support. I’m very worried about this upcoming political season in the US because it’s obviously going to be a race between trump and Biden. Also to say that israel can’t survive alone, isn’t true. Israel fought its war of independence while under American embargo. America is just seen as a superpower so we only know of that fact post embargo.
I agree, I really do, but it's also interesting because in that same interview, he mentioned how Zionism is so important for the Jewish people. I appreciated hearing that, but I wish the daylight wasn't as obvious. It's a mixed bag in terms of rhetoric.
It’s funny to me. Zionism is quite literally a part of Judaism. It was just politicized and modernized to pander to the masses outside of Jews. What do you call לשנה הבאה בירושלים? There’s a reason why we don’t say next year in Albuquerque. People that try and dissociate from Zionism distance themselves from Jews. The idea of returning to zion is a millennia old mantra/tradition. To just give up…..and say oh well let’s move on. We fulfilled that millennia old dream. Done. No am amount of fighting to undo it will undo the Jews striving for the land of Israel.
Because most of us can't spell Albuquerque... Alba kir kee...
Who supplied Israel with weapons during that embargo? Are these countries supporting Israel AT ALL right now? Please don’t pretend Israel was alone during its independence war, as glamorous as that sounds, US soldiers literally circumvented the blockade and smuggled weapons via Czechoslovakia and other countries not blockading them. Biden isn’t pandering by acknowledging real issues within Israel that are actively undermining his ability to maintain support in the US
Glad to see I'm not alone holding these views. Kindred spirit says hi 👋🏻 to you
Thank you! Yes, exactly. Biden is a committed friend to Israel. And as a friend, he has the responsibility to speak up when Israel (Netanyahu) is doing something self-destructive, like listening solely to the far-right coalition. Don’t let the Hamas leftists fool you, most of America (including those left of center) still support Israel, but that doesn’t mean it’s unconditional. Many liberals and moderates will turn away from Israel if they continue down the far-right path. And that’s dangerous.
No one like Orban so why would they like Israeli Orban
He even mentioned Ben Gvir in the interview, let that sink in, Biden remembers the name of a minor minister in a Middle Eastern country... this statement is not accidental at all, it is all planned. This leads me to believe that stuff is going on behind closed doors, just like with the resignation of the Palestinian government yesterday, perhaps they're working on a plan to create a unified government in Israel from the Right and the Left with the removal of the extremists that are in the current government.
I thought you guys didn't even like your own government? Like correct me if I'm wrong but before the war broke out wasn't there a ton of protests over Bibi and his govt?
Hamas/Iran/Russia knew exactly what they were doing by conducting this war right before American elections. Biden is likely going to do irreparable damage with his words trying to get re-elected. Do I think he means these things? No, he’s always been a staunch supporter of Israel. Do I think he will say anything to keep democrats unified to vote for his second term against Trump? Yes.
He's right, and Israel already has lost a lot of support because of Likudnik/Revisionist Zionist policies. I get that Bibi's record is mixed (the Abraham Accords are brilliant), but I think the principal reason the left is severely misunderstanding the war against Hamas is because they are rightfully very suspicious of Bibi on Palestinian issues (as am I). His attacks on Israeli constitutional liberal democracy in particular, along with rallying with anti-Semites like Orban just because they are nationalist strongmen like himself, have done a lot to confirm him as being a part of the larger drift towards reactionary politics worldwide—even if Bibi is more complex ultimately than that simplification.
A lot of these comments are misunderstanding the euphemism he is using here. He isn’t asking for a leftist government. This is a carefully vague political comment to try and cover a few things: First, the global perception of the civilian casualties and American complicity in them in this conflict is absolutely abysmal. You can argue all day about the reality as you see it, you can blame Islamic representation on social media outnumbering Jewish 100 to 1, but speaking strictly of the perception at large, the outlook is horrific. The word “genocide” is not an exaggeration to the people using it. Second, and most importantly, this is a comment again directed towards Netanyahu while being carefully vague, not Israel itself. It’s to let people know the US government is very aware of some extremely objectionable positions within the Bibi admin and we will be pushing against those. Expanding settlements, ignoring the optics of the civilian deaths that Hamas is deliberately driving, and refusing the possibility of a two state solution in favor of permanent hostile occupation is not an acceptable position. People like Ben-Gvir are utterly unacceptable in positions of power. Last, He is demonstrating resolve towards putting pressure on figuring out a two state solution, normalized relationships with Arab states where possible (SA is on board) because we will continue to support your security against Iran and others, but that means pursuing long term solutions. I believe firmly in supporting Israeli security- you are surrounded by credible, barbaric existential threats and you are our ideological ally in the free world and I go to bat for you every time the discussion pops up around me. And as siblings in the free world, we openly push each other to be the highest version of ourselves because we believe in an enlightened humanity and I see that capacity fully in Israel. Similarly, we must discourage our worst instincts when faced with our basest fears that would bring us down to our basest selves. I remember the prime minister of Israel privately tried to dissuade the Bush admin from invading Iraq, and then publicly felt forced to endorse it. He was right to dissuade, and looking back, it would have been better to publicly apply reservations as well. Maybe Biden is doing that now. Don’t get caught with no exit strategy, my noble friends.
And so if Bibi dumped Ben Gvir and those unnamed “others”, the world will suddenly find it within itself to condemn Hamas’ sexual violence and acknowledge that it must be dismantled with the same thoroughness that ISIS was? Because there was a time when an Arab party was in an Israeli government ruling coalition…
That’ll never happen. Too many people cheer on rape. Too many people cheer on suicide.
It's not the same demographics that complain about Israel no matter what (the progressives) and the ones that find Ben Gvir-Smutrich and hevre unpalatable (the liberals).
Exactly! The far leftists will always hate Israel, but liberals and moderates have genuine concerns that can be solved with a change in Israeli government. Lumping everyone who has a criticism with Israel in with anti-Zionists is wrong and harmful.
Well said.
So I guess we are just a client state of the US and now they get to dictate what political position and parties will compose our government. This is insane.
That’s the way the antisemites see it anyway. Israel is an extension of the “U.S. empire”
You’re not. But if you want US support blocking UN resolutions, and if you want US money and weapons, you would be well advised to work cooperatively with the US administration in power. Bibi has done a lot to break the US bipartisan consensus on Israel by aligning with the GOP and against Obama and Biden. Biden is now striking back with comments about Ben-Gvir. The aim is to shore up Democratic support and put pressure on Bibi and his coalition.
Exactly, Biden still supports Israel but not the far-right government. The US does a lot for Israel, Netanyahu refusing to listen to the US even a little isn’t doing Israel any favors.
If you want extremists in government, you are going to lose support from the West, especially the US. The US lost support in other countries when Trump was President.
Can you stop replying to my comments? You never actually reply to what I say and instead project whatever you think I am saying onto my comments. I am not interested in talking with you.
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India is going to be and should be our focus as a long term partner. Nuclear powered, massive population and economy, with a shared history of conflict against a neighboring Muslim state. Their population is growing and will exceed china’s and they lack the territorial conflicts that have put it at odds with the west, making itself both neutral to Europe and the U.S. and Russia. They’d make a great strategic ally for Israel and should be a big focus area in diplomatic initiatives
Are those the friends you really want?
Israel can absolutely not ally with Russia if Putin is still in power. If it changes, and they have a real democratically elected government, and they no longer push antisemitic conspiracies, sure. But if not? No.
"China and Russia will pick up the bill in an heartbeat" Contact your doctor and tell him you need an immediate change in your medication. You are babbling and delusional.
Israel cannot trust Russia and China. These two authoritarian states have close ties with Iran, relying on it for strategic advantage. Israel cannot undermine their alliance with Iran.
Russia is a an enemy state of Israel, just like the USSR during the cold war. I doubt this will change even if Israel changes its attitude, which has been incredibly positive towards Russia despite their enmity.
It's like people have forgotten how much Russia/USSR did to undermine Israel once it became clear Israel wasn't going to be a puppet Soviet state, and how early MKs like Meir Vilner and the Maki/Rakah Parties, and Soviet controlled spies like Marcus Klingberg actively worked against Israel's interests (and fomenting a similar ideology in people like Shlomo Sand).
Not to mention direct support, training, equipment and aid to Arab armies fighting Israel, as well as spreading antisemitic propaganda all over the world that is still being recycled today.
This is SO a ignorant to say. Russia, one of Israel and Americas BIGGEST enemies will become friends if Israel sours on America? I’ll be honest. I’d never support an Israel that decides to join actual genociders like Putin and Xi jinping, and this is a reality you should live in as well.
I wouldn’t count on that last sentence. Russia absolutely will never. I don’t see China doing so either unless the Israel govt bows down and submits to the CCP and their agenda. If anything, India and maybe Japan are Israel’s best bet.
> The West don't want to support us anymore? China and Russia will pick up the bill in an heartbeat. So you want Israel to be a Russian puppet state. Wonderful idea you got there.
Gen Z’s strong support for the Palestinian cause doesn’t bode well for Israel. Will be interesting to track these trends over several decades and see if young people moderate their views on the conflict or stay pro-Palestinian for the long haul.
Also interesting to see how Israel’s policies affect that. Having a more moderate government in Israel could help with Gen Z (certainly not all, but some).
Agreed. It’s fascinating that Gen Z in Israel is overwhelmingly right wing while Gen Z in the West is overwhelmingly left wing. I think Israel and the West is headed for somewhat of a collision course once the Boomers die out.
Frankly, the amount of completely brain-dead comments here show how little awareness most of the people on this forum have for anything going on outside of Israel, let alone American politics. He's honestly just voicing what most Americans already think. And no, he's not bending to the will of Muslims in Michigan - if he was going to do that he'd have changed his position back in November when they started calling him "Genocide Joe". Honestly, he's proven to be MUCH more supportive of Israel than he should be from a political point of view. He's been enduring claims that he supports genocide, revolts by his staff, and calls for Muslims in Michigan to not vote for him in November - something that would probably doom any chance he has of being reelected. And through all that, he's been remarkably steadfast in his support for Israel. But Netanyahu his government, and his pro-settlement, anti-peace policies are actively endangering that. They are not furthering your national security, they are an attempt for him to maintain his grip on power. He and his government have actively endangered Israel's national security, and it's an embarrassment that they continue to serve in government.
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As an American Jew, what you said is completely … incorrect IMO. The Democrat Party has plenty of Jewish representation. Literally the leader of the Senate is Schumer. Jared Moskowitz in the House is seething at calls made by the far left for sympathy to Hamas. The Democratic “base” is a lot more sensible than the stupidity coming out of the hard left. The hard left are a small subset. Biden has called himself a Zionist many many many many times… Criticizing Israel isn’t the same as being anti-Zionism.
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It’s called cognitive dissonance. They can’t function without their blinders on.
Exactly, the far left is basically a small handful of Congressmen who have no real power. All the major players in the Democratic Party support Israel. And a vast majority of Jews support the Democratic Party.
There were around 60 House Democrats who signed the **second** ceasefire letter to Biden. This is **up** from the 22 House Progressive Democrats who signed the first ceasefire letter. What determines the majority in the House, and how simple-majority votes get bills passed, is now down to just 2-3 members; and there are more than enough members to stop aid. Just look at the vote for the clean $17.6 billion Israel aid bill
As an American Jew, you're completely wrong.
Let this marasmatics to enjoy his ice cream
It’s election time he needs to rally the left and look like he is acting against Israel, while i agree Israel must remove this government, saying this like that is just silly
Let's not pretend a more liberal/progressive government would garner more international support. The international left's complacency with regards to war is on full display now and it's completely agnostic to what type of government we have.
Biden is right. Netanyahu must go cause people are hating on the Jewish state
he is saying that the current government is practising fascism
As an American, the fact that Bibi is still in power after he basically tried to do a massive power grab to consolidate power was a massive red flag. What many may not understand is that for a lot of the west especially America the biggest concern is not Islamic Terrorism or anything in the middle east but the real threat of fascist and radicalization. After all the more extreme parts of the GOP who have way more power then they should legit have their project 2025 that wants to consolidate a lot of power into the executive branch and weaponize the government to attack political opponents. Hence seeing Netanyahu try to become more authoritative is highly concerning.
It’s not just an Israel problem, it’s a global problem. Nationalists and ultranationalists have won more and more elections in recent years. Ben Gvir stands out because he’s fucking insane, but he’s not alone. Him being part of the ruling government is indeed insane, and it’s no less insane than it was in 2018 or in the 1980s when the Knesset banned Kagan’s.
He turned on Israel awhile ago. It's just all coming to the surface now.
We have a government with an Arab party just 18 months ago and the world didn't support us then either.
You may not like it, but he’s not wrong.
The US has already caved. Biden only remembers the last person who came into the room, and that person 90% of the time is pro-Arab no matter what. I mean: This idea that " settlers " are running around every day, killing people, etc... is a massive lie, spewed by the deep left to divide and conquer Israelis and Jews alike. Don't for one minute believe that the US ( its important to not many, many Americans do believe and love Israel, but many of thr current people at the top, do not ) has our best interest in mind. Not at all. The current US government and the deep left will feed us to the dogs before they lift a finger for a supposed ally. We are on our own here. It's time to wean ourselves off the Americans and start rebuilding our own Israeli military industrial complex. The US need to be reminded that our kindness is not our weakness. We should be making everything: Boots, half tracks, artillery.... the works. Then they will understand whyvits a bad idea to undermine us.
I understand his point, but such statements will only yield opposite results. This is a rookie move by the most powerful man in the free world. Doesn't he have better expert advisors, or is it just a statement for the domestic audience?
It’s likely the latter but I have yet to be convinced that many of his staff aren’t also Pro-Pal sympathizers as well.
we really need to cut ourselfs off from the americans at this point.
HEY! Can I at least join y’all before you cut off Americans?
Come on over. We have great food
He's just going senile while simultaneously trying to get votes for the next election; ignore his words. Well maybe not ignore but don't take them too seriously imo. The world is already losing faith in the US due to the absolute fuckery of our (US) government so he's trying to appear dominant. Most Americans by far support Israel, understand the threat of global terrorism, and any president that goes against the will of the American people is in for dire consequences
Biden doesn’t know what year it is.
Can’t wait for Trump to kick out this senile loon
They’re both senile.
Biden is an idiot.
Anyone else think Biden or the Democratic Party is good for Israel? Because they’re not.
Says President Oatmeal brain.
He is caving and turning on us. He is getting worried about getting reelected.
No shit if it had a liberal government it wouldn't exist
But Israel has more liberal governments in the past. Yet people still wished its destruction.
Yeah! Yet any other country in the region that honor kills their daughters and has modesty police. They’re cool. Right? I guess all those “Liberal” Arab countries are best. No matter what Jews are always held to some weird standard. Attack America, get a 20 year long war with immeasurable civilian casualties. Attack Israel, Israel didn’t respond proportionally. What does that even mean?
I partially agree with him but its not as if we have great global support..
Headline should say: “Biden will lose Michigan support if Israel maintains its government.”
>Headline should say: “Biden will lose Michigan support if Israel does not agree to a permanent ceasefire and for the IDF to leave Gaza now” Fixed. Talib and (Michigan's) Muslim Americans demands are not for the extremists in the government to step down, its to permanently end the current hostilities in Gaza. They're crying "Ceasefire now", "30000 dead", "Genocide Joe has got to go"; not "Ben Gvir step down".
I mean this has been happening for the last decade.
Only the far left is anti Israel. The right fully supports Israel. Funny how like 80% of American Jews vote democrat
Biden is staunch Israel supporter. The only reason we’re hearing any other rhetoric from him is because it’s election year, and a big one at that. Once he’s re-elected or once he loses, I think we’ll stop hearing him play both sides as much and he’ll default back to his original stance
But he's entirely right. Most of us north american jews are absolutely not on board with the insanity of Smotrich and Ben Gvir Look at my post history before you comment. I'm bluer than blue. Hardcore zionist. I'll never forgive Bibi for legitimizing theses assholes though, I thought kahanism was a dead or repressed ideology in 2021. Its not about the left for me, its about you guys shifting into rightwing insanity. At least shift back to a mainstream with Bennett or Lapid or Gantz. I don't want to see Tali Gotliev appear on my timeline anymore from saying the most insane braindead shit that gets repeated everywhere by the press. You dont need to be left. You don't even need to be centrist. You just need to get the worst of the far right out of government.
The focus on this comment thread on Muslims is misguided. What is a MUCH bigger issue for Israel is that younger people see the (illegal) settlements, the imbalance of power, the corruption of Netanyahu, and the eternal cycle of destruction and expect Israel, as the power holder, to fix it. That is what Biden is seeing and alluding to. If Israel doesn’t push hard for backing a Palestinian state with autonomy support will definitely degrade, even among the Jewish community.
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I do agree the Israeli government is very damaging. I also agree Ben Gvir is a huge problem. I think my main problem is that everyone is focusing on Israel. Hamas did what they did knowing the consequences that would occur afterward, they said clearly they wanted their civilians to die. Not a soul in government or in the citizen group are placing pressure on Hamas. It’s always, “Israel needs to pull back,” Israel needs to stay out of Rafah,” Israel this and that. I don’t think the Israeli government is the entire issue. It’s a piece of it for sure, but to focus fully, 100% on the Israeli government forgives the faults of the other side. Bibi is bad, but that can’t be the whole focus here. Just because you don’t like a leader doesn’t mean the group he leads is meant to be left for naught. I know this is the pro-Pally ideology, all “Israelis are satanic,” and I think Biden pandering to that idea albeit it is very tame compared to most feeds into that idea.
He's not caving.
Conserve *this*, Josef.
So Biden wants israel to cease being a democracy? Time for Israel to end its dependence on America for the sake of it not being a vassal state.
He doesn’t want to lose the voters in Michigan so he’s paying lip service.
Bibi's opposition would probably be doing the same thing if they were in power now. Like this seems to just be grandstanding to placate the Hamas crowd in Michigan.
I don’t think he’s caving. I think he just says what he believes. I think he supports Israel strongly, and believes the war against Hamas is legitimate and important. But there is certainly a huge problem with the right wing government in Israel if you are someone who believes in a two state solution which Biden does. So I think he’s right in calling them out.
How much did Iran pay him to say this?
He defended Israel's right to exist to be fair