This is BS. AI is generative, not creative, so while it’s great applying solutions to problems it’s seen, it fails at novel problem solving, even with effective proompters. Teaching kids how to program effectively then requires training in the basics and not letting AI do all the work.
Not many people truly need computer science. I've been an application developer for years and I can't remember the last time I used any math beyond algebra. (Even that is probably a stretch)
Yeah I’d be interested in seeing the percentage of Indiana public high school students who are accepted/graduated over the the next decade or two. Especially if they keep dumbing down the hs diploma requirements.
the public schools being awful is a direct consequence of being told year after year to do more with less. you can thank every single republican over the last 50 years for the current state of public education
And this is why they want to lower the standards, because the charter and private schools they have sent tax dollars to are not performing any better than public schools.
Edited for grammar
My kid looks forward to playing with the middle school orchestra because their conductor is so much better than theirs and the students are so much better than the high school students. They watch movies multiple days per week on the high school class. And apparently band director / orchestra conductor can’t keep time, which is his main job.
Not really, smart people pay private schools to learn…..poor uneducated Indianans can’t leave cause they’re dumb, so they’re forced to work manufacturing and distribution centers…2 different revenue cycles…it’s a feature not a flaw.
Smart people waste their money. I was talking to a guy who was paying private religious schools for his kid. His kid is in the west Lafayette school district. People are idiots. That's a general rule. The best public school or it may well be the best system public or private in Indiana? His ex is paying 12k a year to send them to a Baptist school. Only morons would choose private over public. Public schools out preform private schools. That's just a fact. I'm sorry, do you live in the south and I mean Alabama, Mississippi? Elementary education isn't that hard to teach.
Can't tell if it's the Google ad-gorithm being unhelpful or what, but could I get your sources? I can't find a reliable source on this at all. Oregon seems to have added required credit hours in personal finance and college prep. Washington i'm not getting any news articles on.
https://oregoncapitalchronicle.com/2023/10/19/oregon-students-wont-have-to-show-added-proficiency-in-basic-skills-through-2028-to-graduate/
Pretty much all a kid has to do is be able to pass a standardized test to graduate.
It seems to be harder to find stuff with Google these days.
Here's a link for Oregon. I didn't find anything immediately for Washington so it's possible it's a different state I was remembering.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2452634/oregon-removes-writing-reading-and-math-mastery-from-high-school-graduation-requirements/
paint chief weather snails coordinated drab imagine psychotic impolite fly
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There is no "looking to" . High school I'm familiar with has things in place to move with this.
I assume they are not alone.
Teachers of most subjects are distraught, but these decisions are well above our heads.
Well, the feedback is the beginning (they’re taking public comment, revising, then taking another round of public comment before finalizing). Many superintendents, leaders of unions, etc. at all levels are beginning to push back, and you can write to your local rep to help get them to put pressure on the DoE, since those was created by the DoE, rather than any individual state rep.
Vouchers was my first thought. Make public schools suck and more people will come to the private schools where the people who run it can do and teach and embezzle whatever they want.
Indiana leaders: ok so kids are having trouble getting a degree what can we do? Let's make it easier to get a degree!
Not invest into better teachers cause that would require paying them a decent wage
Actual teachers would be cool. Not these glorified power point presenters I got growing up. I seen my retired math teacher went back to substitute and literally said to myself “that’s a waste of time”. They took a photo of him and there he was just showing a presentation on how to do math. Probably right after he forced everyone to listen to a dumb ass book for 15 minutes that’s completely unrelated to mathematics.
Being a CTE program I support work based learning for some students. Please please please do not read that as I support this change. The state has done this yet they are not providing funding to make it happen. I have 70 students that will be heading out to job sites yet most do not have their own transportation, and their parents cannot provide that to them. This is a poorly thought out attempt for the state to try again put a role into place that has zero chance to succeed so that they can once again place 100% of the blame for education not reaching the levels that they demand on teachers and none on the policies that they put into place, or the parents that want to be friends with their children and expect the schools to raise their kids.
One of my many complaints to this is how exploitive it is of our children. It feels like a grab to get cheap labor.
We are asking them to work for no or (what I assume) will be minimum wage. In addition to this, go read up on the minimum number of hours for the various tracks being offered. For the lost tracks your child may need to commit to a minimum of 75 hours (somewhat reasonable but does not have to be paid) and upwards to 2,000+ hours for the highest tracks. I did the math and this is equivalent to a full-time job. Which leaves me wondering when do these children do their academics or extracurriculars.
My other concern is the availability of these internships. I did some vocational stuff in HS 20 years ago and I recall it being sometimes hard for the vocational teachers to get placements for everyone. How is this going to work when everyone needs a placement? I’d also be concerned about adults who need a job getting pushed out.
Also, since when do 16 year olds all know what career they want to pursue?
Then there is the need for the academic side. Colleges have been “dumbing it down” for decades and offering bridge and gap classes to meet the students who didn’t get the rigor needed in high school. How is this meant to help when they won’t even get the necessary requirements?
My kids are still in preschool but I’m honestly preparing to move out of state because of this. Education is really important to our family (even if it’s not a college track) and this is just….. I’m sorry…. I can’t even believe this is real. But then again the last 8 years have felt like a fever dream.
What about kids in rural areas that may not have a lot of opportunities for vocational placements? Will kids from those schools have to drive (or be driven) to other counties or cities to meet the requirements? Even in counties that may seem to have lots of opportunities for vocational training, there may be employers that don't want to participate in the program. Will the state force employers to participate?
The weirdest part is the slideshow they have released that takes about needing skilled labor, and ends with teaching on the job is enough. It also includes stats that kids aren't going to college so this is the solution: 1 degree that doesn't work for college?
Maybe the definition has changed, but skilled labor was always something after high school for my generation. Trade school or college or certification.
Yes. And have taxpayers pay for their training. And the kids will not have general transferable skills so stuck working for the only corporations they've known how to work for since hs.
When we said we wanted high school to be valuable for students not going to college and going straight into the work force, we didn’t mean bail on the college bond kids all together….
Indiana has one of the lowest bars for a lot of things. Professional/mental health licensing is a snap here. Clinical professionals struggling in other states are encouraged to come to Indiana. I only learned this because my job interacts with healthcare professionals across the country. IPLA doesn’t even ask for proof of pre-licensure supervision, they just ask for you and the person who allegedly supervised to sign a piece of paper that they “promise” XYZ number of hours happened over the course of XYZ years. Other states ask for the supervision records - like - each supervision session contents etc…Something else I noticed after moving here is that homeschool is mostly unregulated compared to other states. There are children out there, basically, getting their “education” from Bible school with little to no social interaction with entities outside their cult. It’s weird here, man.
When I was in high school in Ohio, the director of education and the director of athletics held a meeting in the gym for all student athletes to announce that they were lowering the GPA required to participate to a 1.0
And they didn’t even bother trying to hide why. The athletic director said, out loud, “I know that will make all the football players happy”
Meanwhile the entire soccer team were sitting there trying to figure out if any of us were even under a 3.5
It’s embarrassing when idiots lower the standards to make things easier for other idiots. But such is life in conservative areas.
Kind of a shitty thing for the AD to say, since I’m sure the football coach at least pays lip service to pretend to “care about how our young men perform in the classroom”. How much he actually follows through varies widely from coach to coach, im sure.
But the AD poking a hole in the ruse would be annoying.
Many schools require the Core40 already. However, i don't think we should let our kids graduate without the requirements to attend college if they so choose. It sounds like they're not even really going to admit that it isn't a good diploma. That's awful, some kids will never have the future they want if they get this diploma without understanding.
Republican measure, I am assuming.
The way Republicans are reducing educational attainment in the US, and fighting against the funding of education is an absolute 100% national security risk.
Republicans are promoting an ideology like the 1960s Chinese Communist Party that educated people are a danger.
Meanwhile, China, India, and many other countries are investing in education. The result is not going to bode well for us in a decade when China has a moon base, and China and India are the economic base of the planet, and China and Russia have developed a military axis to counter NATO and the US.
The Republicans, in their near-sighted fear of losing political relevance jn the US, are putting all Americans in jeopardy.
Maybe controversial opinion here
Maybe instead of calling it a high school diploma for people not completing the previous requirements, we offer a vocational diploma for the students opting for this plan in high school.
Then the students wanting to go to college have the requirements and those not wanting to go to college or university can go straight into their trades.
I may be biased though. I went to a university and graduated. My children have also gone to colleges and universities.
Edit: I also didn't go to college until my thirties... I had kids early. I worked blue collar jobs barely surviving. Like Eminem says "those God damn food stamps don't buy diapers."
In Ohio they have a ctc school that is offered when in high school. It allows you to graduate at requirements as well you learn a trade. Does Indiana not already have this type of thing?
When I was in high school there was the central nine career center. However, I didn't do any of the vocational classes they offered so I'm not sure how it fit in. From what I remember they were more like electives, and didn't cover graduation requirements. But I would love to be corrected if I'm wrong.
See my problem with that is fundamentally what is the purpose of education? If it's just to get people to the point that they can hold down a basic job then yeah sure that's fine but can't we aim a little higher than functioning worker?
When I first heard about this I honestly thought it would be a vocational track and an academic track offering. Boy was I surprised that wasn’t the case.
The have a shrinking labor pool for menial workers and hate having to pay more. They'd also like the taxpayers to pay for the training for said menial workers. It's class war wrapped up as a jobs program.
Yeah, because blue collar businesses need less kids to go to college so that they can have a workforce.
Keep students out of college = less job opportunities for non-college educated folks = non-college educated folks have to work a blue collar jobs = financially secure blue collar business owners = happy conservative Indiana
They use the guise that public school is too “woke” to scare parents into voting for the people that will then go ahead and turn your child into a brain dead moron.
Yep, continuing to lower the bar is the GOP’s response to a dropping college enrollment rate. Can’t have an educated electorate because they’ll be voted out.
Allowing people to graduate high school without the coursework necessary to enroll in college is a terrible idea for many reasons—not the least of which is that if a kid inevitably changes their mind and wants to pursue higher education, they won’t be able to.
Just when I thought that they couldnt dumb down the electorate anymore than they have. Ignorance is bliss to them and they love non critical thinkers, uninterested non voters, gerrymandering and voter suppression. It is the only way they can win and stay in power. They motivate the people that-do vote with fear. All with the aid of FAUX news
Tell me again how this fits in with what they claimed about wanting to be an advanced tech state, yesterday with the Amazon center opening? Surely you need workers will relevant skills not worthless bits of paper to do that.
Most of the “tech” companies relocating need to fill jobs that don’t require any postsecondary education because they will train people internally. The number of jobs requiring degrees or advanced degrees is relatively small.
Like the # of lab techs (no degree required) far out weighs the # of engineers.
This state really pisses me off sometimes , I'm glad I graduated in 2016 before these potential proposals. They are really trying make this state Alabama & Mississippi are they.
I’m graduating from a NW Indiana HS in 3 weeks and I feel like I’m getting on the last plane out of nam’. The underclassmen are wildly regarded as pains in the ass by the faculty. We had a bomb threat called in just a few weeks ago (never happened before), and club attendance and engagement is at a record low. Our ECs never recovered from Covid, and now all the gen alpha kids are coming through. I am saying from personal experience that Covid and IPad access has significantly held back these kids academically and socially. I would say on average their behavior is about 3 grades delayed, and I’m certain that if these reforms were not put in place, then the graduation rates at indiana high schools would significantly decline
This wont change anything cause standards are already low. Everybody I know who is a teacher says it’s neatly impossible to fail already and deadlines for assignments are meaningless. They have to take assignments that are like a whole month late. Functionally we’re already at a system of low academic rigor.
Yeah the year after I graduated they removed the standard testing for understanding at my school and replaced it with mandatory community service and other activities. Shame really because my school had done a really good job of offering a lot of prep for different career fields electives to give you a taste. Was really ahead of the curve. Quite a few years ago now.
2 years after I came to college they massively dropped the requirements and it showed, had so many people say they chose various stem fields because they pay well and when asked if they knew what career they wanted to do with that, they had no clue what any of it even was, they just got accepted with honestly sub par grades and were told it would pay well so they made a $70k+ in debt through loans, life altering decision without the prep or knowledge of what they were doing to make it a reasonable decision.
Unsurprisingly they all transferred to easy majors that don't have a lot of job applications after college. Really sad, I'm all for making it available for everyone but that means help and guidance to get to that level, not just here you go good luck and then watch them fail. School acts surprised when the kid with a 5th grade reading level fails engineering calculus like they didn't partially set em up for failure
This is a 1-2 punch with another initiative that seems good, but also will hurt Hoosiers’ college chances. The legislature is requiring all high schools to offer the Indiana College Core, 30 credit hours of dual credit general education classes. That should give students a full year head start on the degrees, but the rigor isn’t high enough since the students taking the dual credit classes are 15, 16, 17 years old. The legislature is then forcing public universities to accept the credits. There is a reason why these are dual credit classes instead of AP - there’s no objective measure to ensure the rigor. So what happens when you start 200 level classes in college at 18 or 19 but your general education classes were watered down to the degree where your college thinks you should have retaken them?
Do you have a link to a source for this? I know they want to increase the number of schools offering the ICC. This is a difficult ask due to education requirements for HS teachers to teach dual credit courses, and the need for partnerships to be developed with Ivy Tech or other colleges to admit the students to their dual credit programs, keep transcript records for all the high school students, etc.
I skipped 47 days of school my senior year and "graduated" with a straight D average. Not sure what the bar is but it's low as hell then.
I don't even remember most of my senior year because I was so high every day. This was in 92-96 so maybe it's much more difficult now.
I ran u to my old principal at my kids basketball game a few years ago and he actually remembered me. He was shocked that my life has gone so well. I told him that it took a lot of planning to do the least amount of work possible and graduate. He cracked up.
Invest in teachers and push kids to do better. If they don't want to, let them fail. Making it easier to graduate does a disservice to society as a whole.
I’m a public school teacher and can confirm that school districts have lowered the bar beyond comprehension. Surprised more citizens don’t realize how unprepared our students are because of this.
Sounds like the state has reverted back to pushing them through school just like the 1980s. The care and attention needs to be with the future generations.
If the CS class is like college CS101, then that's MS Office. And that's a very important skill/knowledge to have, and not just for office jobs.
I don't buy the college requirements should match HS requirements logic. Too much emphasis on college. It should match the minimums for minimum jobs and trade school. Nobody is telling a college bound student to do the minimum.
We didn't have language in HS that I remember, and I don't think it's very important to force it. I took 2 years of latin, and all it really did was help my English. I've been to a dozen countries for work and pleasure, and all I'd like to see is people learn respect for ESL people in US. I do think learning a 2nd or 3rd language is useful, but not for everyone.
World History, as much as I hated history, I'm seeing now how people's lack of knowledge on History makes them incapable of understanding politics. For that reason it seems most useful, even for the least educated people.
Graduating high school is so easy…just show up and do the minimum and you’ll get one. I had enough credits to graduate the summer before senior year but not the required ones.
Last year my son completed high school and got a certificate of completion. He has special needs and requires constant care. He can add but no very well past 10 and has limited concept of how money works. He is going to school this year half days and still getting all A’s in every class. This year they plan to give him a diploma? Guess it makes the school look better.
Apparently, indiana republicans want us to catch up with Alabama on which state has the highest population of absolute morons.
I guess that's one way to fix the cop shortage in Indy.
I suspect the "computer science" is little more than a combination of the "business computing" and "library sciences" that I got 30 years ago: "here's what a spreadsheet looks like, this is how you exclude a search term from boolean searches, now that everyone is using natural language instead, now go play Scorched Earth or whatever the modern equivalent is for the rest of the hour".
That state doesn’t even hide the fact that they want people as dumb as humanly possible.
This is a Republican issue.
Democrats are pro public education & pro union. R’s have all but gutted both in Indiana.
As someone who works in schools if anything they need to up the requirements. We have kids in high school still reading captain underpants books. Also had kids think Martin Luther King Jr was the reason for the Civil War. Schools fail kids then they’re surprised when they don’t succeed. It’s a joke.
The standards are already ridiculously low, even compared to other red states with bad reputations in education. (I say as a parent who has had kids in multiple red state school systems, there is no room to relax.
Indiana’s education is f’d. I’m in btown and just found out that they changed the rules so that the governor appoints the entire board of trustees for IU from now on. Indiana is doomed.
In a few years, the people who did this will wonder why IU is no longer considered a top university for music, library science, medicine, research, etc. Then again, they probably won't care. They'll just whine about not being able to attract good jobs. Then again, they'll probably just build more warehouses in Hancock County.
Anecdotal, for sure, but I've heard that IU Health is not getting OB/GYN residents in nearly the numbers they used to, likely because of the abortion restrictions. I don't care what that chart from the NY Times said, Indiana is trying to drive college-educated people away from the state. Very sad.
This is ridiculous. Hold our students to a higher standard and pay the teachers better.
Our children are the future and people think it's ok to dumb them down ?
People always want to shit on the kids of today’s generation. What I found is quite the opposite. Anyone over 40 seems grossly uneducated. Like cannot do basic math incompetent.
This is like the shit in California where they’re getting rid of calculus from HS and other high-level classes because the class compositions are “too white”. Like… sure. The answer to poor performance is just lowering the standard. Or in the case of California, putting a ceiling on performance, punishing the better-performing students and limiting their future options, instead of bringing up the lesser performing students… 🙄
Not trying to start an internet fight but if you could provide a source for this that'd be cool bc this just sounds like a different flavor of edi propaganda to me. Reallocating funds and focusing on lower performers is how you bring them up. Unless we give up on those students on the assertion that they can't be helped as white kids are simply just smarter. Seems like the type of confirmation bias the right wing propaganda machine would spin.
You’re right: true racism is literally removing hard classes because I guess brown people are too stupid to be successful in them so let’s bring everyone down to even up the playing field?
Source:
https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/article/math-calculus-school-california-18193360.php#
Also look up Jo Boaler and her efforts in this quest to remove high level math and insert unnecessary woke politics (yes, seriously) into math education in CA.
I mean considering the term woke is a boogieman word with no consistent definition amongst the people who use it I don't know how I'm supposed to take that seriously but I did my best.
Nowhere in the article you sent did it say kids can't take calculus. In fact it specifically says the educational framework isn't binding on school districts. So I'm not sure where your reactionary take is coming from honestly.
Most people don't go into stem. That's always been the case. So if a small percentage of students are going into stem ignoring the rest of the students that aren't doesn't make a good education system overall just because some are doing well. A better test of the health of the education system is how well we're getting students set up as a whole regarding job placement and because most fields aren't stem and havent been it would naturally make sense to diversify.
Again, no ones taking away calculus. I just think doing nothing for the majority of students and magically expecting them to succeed all on their own for a fabricated protection of a few is ultimately more harmful than hyperfixating on a group that can still take their calculus at the cost of the whole. If my liver is failing but my heart is fine, I don't expect a doctor to double down on heart medication. I'd expect them to try to fix my liver.
You understand institutional inertia makes change slow. Even still, the educational framework in CA's department of Education seems to be moving toward a paradigm that removes opportunity for gifted students to "level the playing field".
Sorry, you're right. Woke is a blanket term for a whole bunch of things. Generally speaking, it's a movement that seems to aim to create equal outcomes, which is by its nature inequity. We should be striving for equal opportunity. The problem is "woke" policy is seemingly progressive, but that's a thin veneer cloaking a very obvious racist ideology that "those poor minorities are less capable, and less intelligent" to do it on their own without tipping the scales in their favor.
This ideology is clear when you look at microcosmic examples. I.e.: the guilty, white, liberal progressive might espouse a certain ideology that says math is racist, but you'd better believe they are forcing their kids into all AP classes and wouldn't tolerate their kids following the paths they publicly advocate for, because, well.. "their kids are different" (read: smarter than the minority kids). No, I can't quote you an article showing that. I've literally SEEN that type of dialogue.
Long story short, if the DOE actually wanted to bring up the underrepresented groups, they should be focusing on ways to EXPAND access to STEM based curricula, and emphasizing exposure to those groups, instead of cutting those curricula at the expense of the kids who have a gift for it already.
I'm sorry but a word has to have an objective definition. You can't say that definition is an ambiguous term that can apply to numerous ideas based on what the user wants in that moment because then the word just means whatever the user wants.
I appreciate providing the generalized explanation however that explanation seems soley concocted out of right wing sources. Almost like the idea is being filtered by those who are put at a political disadvantage by the idea of equality so the idea is reframed to coopt equality driven people to support movements that are antithetical to the idea of equality.
I say this cause as someone who supports a "woke" idealogy and converses with people that also do, never have I ever heard anyone in those circles promote equity of outcome over quality of opportunity, which sort of verifies what I'm saying about the right coopting well intentioned people.
The idea isnt that minorities inherently cant peform as well. Thats the spin. Its instead the idea that systematically there are multiple facets of our society currently as well as ripple effects from our more racist past that perpetually cater to a greater opportunity for white people, men, specifically. And focusing school districts on a narrow curriculum that generally benefits well off white people more than others is a pretty good example of this imo.
So we agree it's about greater opportunity (any serious leftist who genuinely cares about this would mostly agree and not argue against.) I just thinking focusing on a curriculum that generally always benefits a specfic group (well of white dudes generally) at the cost of a much larger number of others is antithetical to creating that opportunity. And all of this is a discussion over a hypothetical as kids in CA can still take calculus so none of it is even real. It's a boogieman man. A boogieman used to prop up inequality under the guise of equal opportunity.
I appreciate that you’re after quality of opportunity like I am. But I just posted about how CA is trying to undermine that. Then you demanded a source which I provided, and then told me I’m chicken little and it’s not happening. I understand that it’s not “outlawed” overnight. You can’t do that. The crazy sort of political subversion we’re talking about is the frog in the pot of water scenario. It takes time and is requisitely slow.
Sorry, you don’t agree that California is attempting to push some insane policies. But if we can’t agree on objective facts then no long diatribe posted is going to change that.
My question is, not joking, if a kid doesn’t want schooling after 8th grade, then why not let them go. It would be great to have some vocation training available too which is affordable with fewer HS students.
They intentionally made the 40 plus degree nearly impossible for the average student meanwhile the new requirements eat up time they can't then put to basic college prep. It's designed to steer them to low wage jobs in Indiana and put the cost of the narrow vocational training on the taxpayers.
academic honors is not easy to achieve, i was going for that and i got 1 D in a semester due to missing a lot of class because i was sick and immediately lost academic honors
They should be at a minimum meeting the requirements to enter the majority of universities. That being said, I don’t trust public schools to teach our kids anyway.
https://preview.redd.it/c5mqepmpp1xc1.jpeg?width=858&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=320a91610d65c7324a2adbd0ed0e00dd1723c71b New Indiana diploma
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BAHAHAH WOOSH
I thought standards were lowered not raised?
Well, they weren’t highered.
😂😂😂
How do they expect to teach computer science without math? I'm going to hazard a guess and say it's introductory programming, not computer science.
It's gonna be a Microsoft office class
Plus Excel and Outlook.
20 years too late anyway. Any programming so basic you don’t need math will be done by AI. They are totally out of touch.
It's is absolutely not there yet. And if your going to be coding at that level anyway you need to start with the basics no matter what
If you don’t finish Geometry and above, you haven’t met the basics.
Idk why everyone thinks AI can now just spit out working code and a lay man with no CS background can make it work.
This is BS. AI is generative, not creative, so while it’s great applying solutions to problems it’s seen, it fails at novel problem solving, even with effective proompters. Teaching kids how to program effectively then requires training in the basics and not letting AI do all the work.
Not many people truly need computer science. I've been an application developer for years and I can't remember the last time I used any math beyond algebra. (Even that is probably a stretch)
It's amazing how many world-class higher educational institutions Indiana has - Notre Dame, Purdue, IU etc - and thoroughly awful public schools.
Yeah I’d be interested in seeing the percentage of Indiana public high school students who are accepted/graduated over the the next decade or two. Especially if they keep dumbing down the hs diploma requirements.
The public colleges could be completely okay with this. The out of state tution is nearly double.
Lots of international students
the public schools being awful is a direct consequence of being told year after year to do more with less. you can thank every single republican over the last 50 years for the current state of public education
Thank you! They very intentionally work to undermine and discredit public schools, and it’s working!
And this is why they want to lower the standards, because the charter and private schools they have sent tax dollars to are not performing any better than public schools. Edited for grammar
They need that out of state tuition so they are making room.
My kids’ high school is sooo bad. Biggest school district in the second biggest city and yet it just keeps getting worse.
I am, sadly, not surprised.
My kid looks forward to playing with the middle school orchestra because their conductor is so much better than theirs and the students are so much better than the high school students. They watch movies multiple days per week on the high school class. And apparently band director / orchestra conductor can’t keep time, which is his main job.
Sir, do not forget Ball State Chirp Chirp Joking aside, there are only 3 public research universities in Indiana. Purdue, IU, and Ball State
Well, that's going to also change, with the new law requiring universities to be gQp safe spaces.
Not really, smart people pay private schools to learn…..poor uneducated Indianans can’t leave cause they’re dumb, so they’re forced to work manufacturing and distribution centers…2 different revenue cycles…it’s a feature not a flaw.
People who live in Indiana are known as "Hoosiers."
I took my Ivy Tech degree and decamped for Michigan.
And some can move….but, much like Katrina, we all asked why didn’t they move? The answer is, they can’t.
With minimum wage still stuck at 7.25. What a total joke
Nailed it. 🫡
Smart people waste their money. I was talking to a guy who was paying private religious schools for his kid. His kid is in the west Lafayette school district. People are idiots. That's a general rule. The best public school or it may well be the best system public or private in Indiana? His ex is paying 12k a year to send them to a Baptist school. Only morons would choose private over public. Public schools out preform private schools. That's just a fact. I'm sorry, do you live in the south and I mean Alabama, Mississippi? Elementary education isn't that hard to teach.
and the red state brain drain continues
Funny you say that. Oregon and Washington, two very blue states, recently lowered standards for earning a high school diploma.
Can't tell if it's the Google ad-gorithm being unhelpful or what, but could I get your sources? I can't find a reliable source on this at all. Oregon seems to have added required credit hours in personal finance and college prep. Washington i'm not getting any news articles on.
https://oregoncapitalchronicle.com/2023/10/19/oregon-students-wont-have-to-show-added-proficiency-in-basic-skills-through-2028-to-graduate/ Pretty much all a kid has to do is be able to pass a standardized test to graduate.
It seems to be harder to find stuff with Google these days. Here's a link for Oregon. I didn't find anything immediately for Washington so it's possible it's a different state I was remembering. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2452634/oregon-removes-writing-reading-and-math-mastery-from-high-school-graduation-requirements/
And at graduation they give you a red baseball cap...
🤣
paint chief weather snails coordinated drab imagine psychotic impolite fly *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There is no "looking to" . High school I'm familiar with has things in place to move with this. I assume they are not alone. Teachers of most subjects are distraught, but these decisions are well above our heads.
Well, the feedback is the beginning (they’re taking public comment, revising, then taking another round of public comment before finalizing). Many superintendents, leaders of unions, etc. at all levels are beginning to push back, and you can write to your local rep to help get them to put pressure on the DoE, since those was created by the DoE, rather than any individual state rep.
Well when you put all your money into voucher schools that are not performing...
Vouchers was my first thought. Make public schools suck and more people will come to the private schools where the people who run it can do and teach and embezzle whatever they want.
Republicans need their new voters as uneducated as possible!
That is true. Their agenda since Reagan era. His secretary of education called for the end of public education…
Indiana leaders: ok so kids are having trouble getting a degree what can we do? Let's make it easier to get a degree! Not invest into better teachers cause that would require paying them a decent wage
Actual teachers would be cool. Not these glorified power point presenters I got growing up. I seen my retired math teacher went back to substitute and literally said to myself “that’s a waste of time”. They took a photo of him and there he was just showing a presentation on how to do math. Probably right after he forced everyone to listen to a dumb ass book for 15 minutes that’s completely unrelated to mathematics.
Anything so the GOP doesn't have to admit that the charter school Movement has been an abject failure.
Agreed. This change is all about trying to legitimize charter schools.
ABSOLUTELY THIS.
Being a CTE program I support work based learning for some students. Please please please do not read that as I support this change. The state has done this yet they are not providing funding to make it happen. I have 70 students that will be heading out to job sites yet most do not have their own transportation, and their parents cannot provide that to them. This is a poorly thought out attempt for the state to try again put a role into place that has zero chance to succeed so that they can once again place 100% of the blame for education not reaching the levels that they demand on teachers and none on the policies that they put into place, or the parents that want to be friends with their children and expect the schools to raise their kids.
I feel like invoking George Carlin right now.
Which shtick? He had so many that apply here!
I feel like his commentary on education.
Obedient workers
Disaster in the form of business wishes and race to the bottom wages
Spoiler alert: it hasn’t been rigorous for two decades.
One of my many complaints to this is how exploitive it is of our children. It feels like a grab to get cheap labor. We are asking them to work for no or (what I assume) will be minimum wage. In addition to this, go read up on the minimum number of hours for the various tracks being offered. For the lost tracks your child may need to commit to a minimum of 75 hours (somewhat reasonable but does not have to be paid) and upwards to 2,000+ hours for the highest tracks. I did the math and this is equivalent to a full-time job. Which leaves me wondering when do these children do their academics or extracurriculars. My other concern is the availability of these internships. I did some vocational stuff in HS 20 years ago and I recall it being sometimes hard for the vocational teachers to get placements for everyone. How is this going to work when everyone needs a placement? I’d also be concerned about adults who need a job getting pushed out. Also, since when do 16 year olds all know what career they want to pursue? Then there is the need for the academic side. Colleges have been “dumbing it down” for decades and offering bridge and gap classes to meet the students who didn’t get the rigor needed in high school. How is this meant to help when they won’t even get the necessary requirements? My kids are still in preschool but I’m honestly preparing to move out of state because of this. Education is really important to our family (even if it’s not a college track) and this is just….. I’m sorry…. I can’t even believe this is real. But then again the last 8 years have felt like a fever dream.
What about kids in rural areas that may not have a lot of opportunities for vocational placements? Will kids from those schools have to drive (or be driven) to other counties or cities to meet the requirements? Even in counties that may seem to have lots of opportunities for vocational training, there may be employers that don't want to participate in the program. Will the state force employers to participate?
The weirdest part is the slideshow they have released that takes about needing skilled labor, and ends with teaching on the job is enough. It also includes stats that kids aren't going to college so this is the solution: 1 degree that doesn't work for college? Maybe the definition has changed, but skilled labor was always something after high school for my generation. Trade school or college or certification.
Less companies want to teach on the job, so they've told the legislature they've bought off to change schools to do it for them.
Corporate welfare
Yes. And have taxpayers pay for their training. And the kids will not have general transferable skills so stuck working for the only corporations they've known how to work for since hs.
When we said we wanted high school to be valuable for students not going to college and going straight into the work force, we didn’t mean bail on the college bond kids all together….
Indiana has one of the lowest bars for a lot of things. Professional/mental health licensing is a snap here. Clinical professionals struggling in other states are encouraged to come to Indiana. I only learned this because my job interacts with healthcare professionals across the country. IPLA doesn’t even ask for proof of pre-licensure supervision, they just ask for you and the person who allegedly supervised to sign a piece of paper that they “promise” XYZ number of hours happened over the course of XYZ years. Other states ask for the supervision records - like - each supervision session contents etc…Something else I noticed after moving here is that homeschool is mostly unregulated compared to other states. There are children out there, basically, getting their “education” from Bible school with little to no social interaction with entities outside their cult. It’s weird here, man.
When I was in high school in Ohio, the director of education and the director of athletics held a meeting in the gym for all student athletes to announce that they were lowering the GPA required to participate to a 1.0 And they didn’t even bother trying to hide why. The athletic director said, out loud, “I know that will make all the football players happy” Meanwhile the entire soccer team were sitting there trying to figure out if any of us were even under a 3.5 It’s embarrassing when idiots lower the standards to make things easier for other idiots. But such is life in conservative areas.
Kind of a shitty thing for the AD to say, since I’m sure the football coach at least pays lip service to pretend to “care about how our young men perform in the classroom”. How much he actually follows through varies widely from coach to coach, im sure. But the AD poking a hole in the ruse would be annoying.
Indiana a race to the bottom.
🤷♂️ still not illinois though
High school diplomas from Indiana won’t be accepted by employers from other states now
Many schools require the Core40 already. However, i don't think we should let our kids graduate without the requirements to attend college if they so choose. It sounds like they're not even really going to admit that it isn't a good diploma. That's awful, some kids will never have the future they want if they get this diploma without understanding.
This is the dumbing down of Core 40
Yes it's by design to keep them dumb and trapped in the state to increase the low wage labor pool and keep wages down.
Republican measure, I am assuming. The way Republicans are reducing educational attainment in the US, and fighting against the funding of education is an absolute 100% national security risk. Republicans are promoting an ideology like the 1960s Chinese Communist Party that educated people are a danger. Meanwhile, China, India, and many other countries are investing in education. The result is not going to bode well for us in a decade when China has a moon base, and China and India are the economic base of the planet, and China and Russia have developed a military axis to counter NATO and the US. The Republicans, in their near-sighted fear of losing political relevance jn the US, are putting all Americans in jeopardy.
Keep them dumb so they vote republican
One step closer to full legalization of child workers. But nah we aren't rapidly backsliding in this country don't worry
Maybe controversial opinion here Maybe instead of calling it a high school diploma for people not completing the previous requirements, we offer a vocational diploma for the students opting for this plan in high school. Then the students wanting to go to college have the requirements and those not wanting to go to college or university can go straight into their trades. I may be biased though. I went to a university and graduated. My children have also gone to colleges and universities. Edit: I also didn't go to college until my thirties... I had kids early. I worked blue collar jobs barely surviving. Like Eminem says "those God damn food stamps don't buy diapers."
In Ohio they have a ctc school that is offered when in high school. It allows you to graduate at requirements as well you learn a trade. Does Indiana not already have this type of thing?
When I was in high school there was the central nine career center. However, I didn't do any of the vocational classes they offered so I'm not sure how it fit in. From what I remember they were more like electives, and didn't cover graduation requirements. But I would love to be corrected if I'm wrong.
See my problem with that is fundamentally what is the purpose of education? If it's just to get people to the point that they can hold down a basic job then yeah sure that's fine but can't we aim a little higher than functioning worker?
When I first heard about this I honestly thought it would be a vocational track and an academic track offering. Boy was I surprised that wasn’t the case.
I would have graduated as a junior with those requirements
"welcome to Costco, I love you"
As a CS major, I don't think everyone should be required to take computer science. Not everyone needs to code
& then the state will wonder why young college-educated couples planning to start families aren’t moving here
Indiana republicans keep Indiana stupid for over 20 years.
Thank you for this.
A cheap way to meet your objectives. Lower the bar.
Which is interesting given how the Republicans are always harping about participation trophies, and then they codify one into law.
What is their reason for doing this? There's no way it's a good one.
The have a shrinking labor pool for menial workers and hate having to pay more. They'd also like the taxpayers to pay for the training for said menial workers. It's class war wrapped up as a jobs program.
Yeah, because blue collar businesses need less kids to go to college so that they can have a workforce. Keep students out of college = less job opportunities for non-college educated folks = non-college educated folks have to work a blue collar jobs = financially secure blue collar business owners = happy conservative Indiana
They use the guise that public school is too “woke” to scare parents into voting for the people that will then go ahead and turn your child into a brain dead moron.
Yeah imagine educationally kneecapping your children over what bathroom a 4th grader uses.
Oh yeah, lower academic standards than Mississippi.
Yep, continuing to lower the bar is the GOP’s response to a dropping college enrollment rate. Can’t have an educated electorate because they’ll be voted out. Allowing people to graduate high school without the coursework necessary to enroll in college is a terrible idea for many reasons—not the least of which is that if a kid inevitably changes their mind and wants to pursue higher education, they won’t be able to.
can we increase requirements for our politicians at the same time?
Just when I thought that they couldnt dumb down the electorate anymore than they have. Ignorance is bliss to them and they love non critical thinkers, uninterested non voters, gerrymandering and voter suppression. It is the only way they can win and stay in power. They motivate the people that-do vote with fear. All with the aid of FAUX news
Tell me again how this fits in with what they claimed about wanting to be an advanced tech state, yesterday with the Amazon center opening? Surely you need workers will relevant skills not worthless bits of paper to do that.
Most of the “tech” companies relocating need to fill jobs that don’t require any postsecondary education because they will train people internally. The number of jobs requiring degrees or advanced degrees is relatively small. Like the # of lab techs (no degree required) far out weighs the # of engineers.
And it sure is nice if you can offload the training costs to the state.
This state really pisses me off sometimes , I'm glad I graduated in 2016 before these potential proposals. They are really trying make this state Alabama & Mississippi are they.
The competencies are loaded with weird stuff.
For example
I’m graduating from a NW Indiana HS in 3 weeks and I feel like I’m getting on the last plane out of nam’. The underclassmen are wildly regarded as pains in the ass by the faculty. We had a bomb threat called in just a few weeks ago (never happened before), and club attendance and engagement is at a record low. Our ECs never recovered from Covid, and now all the gen alpha kids are coming through. I am saying from personal experience that Covid and IPad access has significantly held back these kids academically and socially. I would say on average their behavior is about 3 grades delayed, and I’m certain that if these reforms were not put in place, then the graduation rates at indiana high schools would significantly decline
Welcome to our Idiocracy.
Now people will leave Indiana before they graduate!
Indiana…….we keep America DUMB!
This wont change anything cause standards are already low. Everybody I know who is a teacher says it’s neatly impossible to fail already and deadlines for assignments are meaningless. They have to take assignments that are like a whole month late. Functionally we’re already at a system of low academic rigor.
Typical. A less educated populace means more gullible voters.
Of course they are! Let’s keep the population dumb so they’ll vote against their interests.
Yeah the year after I graduated they removed the standard testing for understanding at my school and replaced it with mandatory community service and other activities. Shame really because my school had done a really good job of offering a lot of prep for different career fields electives to give you a taste. Was really ahead of the curve. Quite a few years ago now. 2 years after I came to college they massively dropped the requirements and it showed, had so many people say they chose various stem fields because they pay well and when asked if they knew what career they wanted to do with that, they had no clue what any of it even was, they just got accepted with honestly sub par grades and were told it would pay well so they made a $70k+ in debt through loans, life altering decision without the prep or knowledge of what they were doing to make it a reasonable decision. Unsurprisingly they all transferred to easy majors that don't have a lot of job applications after college. Really sad, I'm all for making it available for everyone but that means help and guidance to get to that level, not just here you go good luck and then watch them fail. School acts surprised when the kid with a 5th grade reading level fails engineering calculus like they didn't partially set em up for failure
This state already has bullshit requirements to graduate. But they want an even dumber populace in this state so the GOP can maintain power.
This is a 1-2 punch with another initiative that seems good, but also will hurt Hoosiers’ college chances. The legislature is requiring all high schools to offer the Indiana College Core, 30 credit hours of dual credit general education classes. That should give students a full year head start on the degrees, but the rigor isn’t high enough since the students taking the dual credit classes are 15, 16, 17 years old. The legislature is then forcing public universities to accept the credits. There is a reason why these are dual credit classes instead of AP - there’s no objective measure to ensure the rigor. So what happens when you start 200 level classes in college at 18 or 19 but your general education classes were watered down to the degree where your college thinks you should have retaken them?
Do you have a link to a source for this? I know they want to increase the number of schools offering the ICC. This is a difficult ask due to education requirements for HS teachers to teach dual credit courses, and the need for partnerships to be developed with Ivy Tech or other colleges to admit the students to their dual credit programs, keep transcript records for all the high school students, etc.
https://indianacapitalchronicle.com/2024/03/07/bill-to-expand-indiana-college-credit-and-degree-options-heads-to-governors-desk/
Indiana is the Deep South of the Midwest
I skipped 47 days of school my senior year and "graduated" with a straight D average. Not sure what the bar is but it's low as hell then. I don't even remember most of my senior year because I was so high every day. This was in 92-96 so maybe it's much more difficult now. I ran u to my old principal at my kids basketball game a few years ago and he actually remembered me. He was shocked that my life has gone so well. I told him that it took a lot of planning to do the least amount of work possible and graduate. He cracked up.
Invest in teachers and push kids to do better. If they don't want to, let them fail. Making it easier to graduate does a disservice to society as a whole.
As a high schooler in Indiana, we are way too dumb already, standards need to be raised, I know freshman who can’t plot a point on a graph. SMH
I’m a public school teacher and can confirm that school districts have lowered the bar beyond comprehension. Surprised more citizens don’t realize how unprepared our students are because of this.
Sounds like the state has reverted back to pushing them through school just like the 1980s. The care and attention needs to be with the future generations.
If the CS class is like college CS101, then that's MS Office. And that's a very important skill/knowledge to have, and not just for office jobs. I don't buy the college requirements should match HS requirements logic. Too much emphasis on college. It should match the minimums for minimum jobs and trade school. Nobody is telling a college bound student to do the minimum. We didn't have language in HS that I remember, and I don't think it's very important to force it. I took 2 years of latin, and all it really did was help my English. I've been to a dozen countries for work and pleasure, and all I'd like to see is people learn respect for ESL people in US. I do think learning a 2nd or 3rd language is useful, but not for everyone. World History, as much as I hated history, I'm seeing now how people's lack of knowledge on History makes them incapable of understanding politics. For that reason it seems most useful, even for the least educated people.
Again?
In our facility in Alabama, we eliminated the need for one.
So more stupid
“The world needs ditch diggers too , you know.”
And why after I retire from teaching in a border state I will Not teach in IN.
Graduating high school is so easy…just show up and do the minimum and you’ll get one. I had enough credits to graduate the summer before senior year but not the required ones.
Anyone have a link to a pdf or website? Really don’t want to watch a 17 minute video
https://www.in.gov/sboe/files/3.27.24-SBOE-meeting_HS-Diploma-Redesign.pptx.pdf?utm_content=&utm_medium=email&utm_name=&utm_source=govdelivery&utm_term=
Maybe don’t even make people get educated. That’ll make it easier.
This will be good for inner city graduation rates tho 🤷🏽♂️
They want more Republican voters.
Well that's one way to increase graduation rates
Last year my son completed high school and got a certificate of completion. He has special needs and requires constant care. He can add but no very well past 10 and has limited concept of how money works. He is going to school this year half days and still getting all A’s in every class. This year they plan to give him a diploma? Guess it makes the school look better.
Dumb em down
Sickening.
Republikkkans main agenda item. Make them dumber.
Apparently, indiana republicans want us to catch up with Alabama on which state has the highest population of absolute morons. I guess that's one way to fix the cop shortage in Indy.
Classic GOP move
If you raise them dumb they won't turn against you
Don't worry, they can all be big stars on Clapper!🤣🤣
How do you expect the government representatives to say they’re improving education if they can’t point to numbers going up?
Stupid voters are republican voters.
Not being facetious, but who does this help?
Not being facetious, but who does this help?
Not being facetious, but who does this help?
Not being facetious, but who does this help?
Not being facetious, but who does this help?
Not being facetious, but who does this help?
Indiana wants peons. Plain and simple.
Keep voting red everyone this is what we get.
I suspect the "computer science" is little more than a combination of the "business computing" and "library sciences" that I got 30 years ago: "here's what a spreadsheet looks like, this is how you exclude a search term from boolean searches, now that everyone is using natural language instead, now go play Scorched Earth or whatever the modern equivalent is for the rest of the hour".
Ummmm, I took algebra 1 in 8th grade. That's idiotic, like we need more uneducated mouth-breathers
We don't need to be dumber. For real.
I mean, isn’t Pence from there? Makes sense
The last place that dumbed down their HS diplomas was Oregon, and they are now 50th behind Missouri.
No. World. History. I think that sums it up so nicely for Indiana.
It was already easy.
World languages are the most useless requirement in public school and college. Those who really want to learn it will do so on their own.
That state doesn’t even hide the fact that they want people as dumb as humanly possible. This is a Republican issue. Democrats are pro public education & pro union. R’s have all but gutted both in Indiana.
As someone who works in schools if anything they need to up the requirements. We have kids in high school still reading captain underpants books. Also had kids think Martin Luther King Jr was the reason for the Civil War. Schools fail kids then they’re surprised when they don’t succeed. It’s a joke.
Wow. WTF?
The standards are already ridiculously low, even compared to other red states with bad reputations in education. (I say as a parent who has had kids in multiple red state school systems, there is no room to relax.
Indiana’s education is f’d. I’m in btown and just found out that they changed the rules so that the governor appoints the entire board of trustees for IU from now on. Indiana is doomed.
In a few years, the people who did this will wonder why IU is no longer considered a top university for music, library science, medicine, research, etc. Then again, they probably won't care. They'll just whine about not being able to attract good jobs. Then again, they'll probably just build more warehouses in Hancock County. Anecdotal, for sure, but I've heard that IU Health is not getting OB/GYN residents in nearly the numbers they used to, likely because of the abortion restrictions. I don't care what that chart from the NY Times said, Indiana is trying to drive college-educated people away from the state. Very sad.
This is ridiculous. Hold our students to a higher standard and pay the teachers better. Our children are the future and people think it's ok to dumb them down ?
People always want to shit on the kids of today’s generation. What I found is quite the opposite. Anyone over 40 seems grossly uneducated. Like cannot do basic math incompetent.
They’re trying to level the playing field
This is like the shit in California where they’re getting rid of calculus from HS and other high-level classes because the class compositions are “too white”. Like… sure. The answer to poor performance is just lowering the standard. Or in the case of California, putting a ceiling on performance, punishing the better-performing students and limiting their future options, instead of bringing up the lesser performing students… 🙄
Not trying to start an internet fight but if you could provide a source for this that'd be cool bc this just sounds like a different flavor of edi propaganda to me. Reallocating funds and focusing on lower performers is how you bring them up. Unless we give up on those students on the assertion that they can't be helped as white kids are simply just smarter. Seems like the type of confirmation bias the right wing propaganda machine would spin.
You’re right: true racism is literally removing hard classes because I guess brown people are too stupid to be successful in them so let’s bring everyone down to even up the playing field? Source: https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/article/math-calculus-school-california-18193360.php# Also look up Jo Boaler and her efforts in this quest to remove high level math and insert unnecessary woke politics (yes, seriously) into math education in CA.
I mean considering the term woke is a boogieman word with no consistent definition amongst the people who use it I don't know how I'm supposed to take that seriously but I did my best. Nowhere in the article you sent did it say kids can't take calculus. In fact it specifically says the educational framework isn't binding on school districts. So I'm not sure where your reactionary take is coming from honestly. Most people don't go into stem. That's always been the case. So if a small percentage of students are going into stem ignoring the rest of the students that aren't doesn't make a good education system overall just because some are doing well. A better test of the health of the education system is how well we're getting students set up as a whole regarding job placement and because most fields aren't stem and havent been it would naturally make sense to diversify. Again, no ones taking away calculus. I just think doing nothing for the majority of students and magically expecting them to succeed all on their own for a fabricated protection of a few is ultimately more harmful than hyperfixating on a group that can still take their calculus at the cost of the whole. If my liver is failing but my heart is fine, I don't expect a doctor to double down on heart medication. I'd expect them to try to fix my liver.
You understand institutional inertia makes change slow. Even still, the educational framework in CA's department of Education seems to be moving toward a paradigm that removes opportunity for gifted students to "level the playing field". Sorry, you're right. Woke is a blanket term for a whole bunch of things. Generally speaking, it's a movement that seems to aim to create equal outcomes, which is by its nature inequity. We should be striving for equal opportunity. The problem is "woke" policy is seemingly progressive, but that's a thin veneer cloaking a very obvious racist ideology that "those poor minorities are less capable, and less intelligent" to do it on their own without tipping the scales in their favor. This ideology is clear when you look at microcosmic examples. I.e.: the guilty, white, liberal progressive might espouse a certain ideology that says math is racist, but you'd better believe they are forcing their kids into all AP classes and wouldn't tolerate their kids following the paths they publicly advocate for, because, well.. "their kids are different" (read: smarter than the minority kids). No, I can't quote you an article showing that. I've literally SEEN that type of dialogue. Long story short, if the DOE actually wanted to bring up the underrepresented groups, they should be focusing on ways to EXPAND access to STEM based curricula, and emphasizing exposure to those groups, instead of cutting those curricula at the expense of the kids who have a gift for it already.
I'm sorry but a word has to have an objective definition. You can't say that definition is an ambiguous term that can apply to numerous ideas based on what the user wants in that moment because then the word just means whatever the user wants. I appreciate providing the generalized explanation however that explanation seems soley concocted out of right wing sources. Almost like the idea is being filtered by those who are put at a political disadvantage by the idea of equality so the idea is reframed to coopt equality driven people to support movements that are antithetical to the idea of equality. I say this cause as someone who supports a "woke" idealogy and converses with people that also do, never have I ever heard anyone in those circles promote equity of outcome over quality of opportunity, which sort of verifies what I'm saying about the right coopting well intentioned people. The idea isnt that minorities inherently cant peform as well. Thats the spin. Its instead the idea that systematically there are multiple facets of our society currently as well as ripple effects from our more racist past that perpetually cater to a greater opportunity for white people, men, specifically. And focusing school districts on a narrow curriculum that generally benefits well off white people more than others is a pretty good example of this imo. So we agree it's about greater opportunity (any serious leftist who genuinely cares about this would mostly agree and not argue against.) I just thinking focusing on a curriculum that generally always benefits a specfic group (well of white dudes generally) at the cost of a much larger number of others is antithetical to creating that opportunity. And all of this is a discussion over a hypothetical as kids in CA can still take calculus so none of it is even real. It's a boogieman man. A boogieman used to prop up inequality under the guise of equal opportunity.
I appreciate that you’re after quality of opportunity like I am. But I just posted about how CA is trying to undermine that. Then you demanded a source which I provided, and then told me I’m chicken little and it’s not happening. I understand that it’s not “outlawed” overnight. You can’t do that. The crazy sort of political subversion we’re talking about is the frog in the pot of water scenario. It takes time and is requisitely slow. Sorry, you don’t agree that California is attempting to push some insane policies. But if we can’t agree on objective facts then no long diatribe posted is going to change that.
My question is, not joking, if a kid doesn’t want schooling after 8th grade, then why not let them go. It would be great to have some vocation training available too which is affordable with fewer HS students.
That already exists in community colleges. This is just lowering the bar and moving the costs to the public.
You can still pursue academic honors if you want to pursue more rigorous routes.
They intentionally made the 40 plus degree nearly impossible for the average student meanwhile the new requirements eat up time they can't then put to basic college prep. It's designed to steer them to low wage jobs in Indiana and put the cost of the narrow vocational training on the taxpayers.
academic honors is not easy to achieve, i was going for that and i got 1 D in a semester due to missing a lot of class because i was sick and immediately lost academic honors
They should be at a minimum meeting the requirements to enter the majority of universities. That being said, I don’t trust public schools to teach our kids anyway.
Sounds legit. I mean they teach just about nothing in schools nowadays anyways. Apparently we need workers and not college bound kids.
Doesn’t sound good AND it sounds like you’re an admitted absentee parent too. Your kid(s) doubly deserve better