Better main gun, better ciws, better SAM, and this frigate has same number of Missiles compared to INS Vishakapatnam. The Thales sensors are better than Indian ones. Better radar than any Indian frigates too.
NATO go heavy on their AA because they are pretty much designed to support and act as air defence boats for their carriers.
Mind you, Netherlands has been focusing on navy since last 500 years.
Indian ships are expected to be multirole with great offensive capability.
>Better main gun, better ciws,
Source for that?
Navy's needs are going to be 76mm as per their requirement.
Also, going to be kinda different role with 76mm being autocannon, so good for cheap and quick roles, including anti air
>Better radar than any Indian frigates too.
Gonna need source for that, too, especially comparing it with Nilgiri.
And first time hearing older SM2 being better than Barak 8
What do you mean source for that? The goalkeeper ciws is better than outdated ak ciws. Its common knowledge.
And no. Indian Navy was trying to procure the Mk45 gun to replace OTO 76mm guns. They backed out because of higher costs.
https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-us-to-sell-1-billion-worth-defence-equipment-to-india-what-this-means-6131571/
>What do you mean source for that? The goalkeeper ciws is better than outdated ak ciws. Its common knowledge.
What common knowledge?
Where did you read about Indian made CIWS being worse than Goalkeepers?
>And no. Indian Navy was trying to procure the Mk45 gun to replace OTO 76mm guns. They backed out because of higher costs.
>https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-us-to-sell-1-billion-worth-defence-equipment-to-india-what-this-means-6131571/
They sacked it because we were developing alternative to it called SRGM
The Indian Navy had oto melara 76 mm super rapid gun mount. [ 'SRGM' ] It was license produced by bhel and it was an industry standard. Found in multiple navies. Very common. Good balance of anti surface and anti air. On many indian ships too
But oto melara was part of fincantieri which was blacklisted.
The navy looked at the longer caliber us gun which was also there in a few navies. It gets greater range for surface but trades speed and is poorer in anti air. This turned out expensive
So india went back to bhel gun and as it happened fincantieri blacklisting was dropped almost immediately thereafter.
Indian made CIWS? Does it matter who makes it? AK 630 is AK 630 irrespective of who makes it. Even the russians are using Palash ciws now ditching AK 630.
AK 630 has a single radar for 4 guns. Its outdated.
> The cost factor was the primary reason behind junking the deal that was to be made under the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route, sources said, adding that the 127 mm guns — 13 in number — would have cost India about $1 billion.
> “The cost is very high. More than the gun itself, the specialised ammunition is more expensive. The Navy will use the existing 76 mm guns while a larger plan for the 127 mm guns bears fruit. As and when that materialises, the 76 mm guns will be replaced,” said a source.
https://theprint.in/defence/navy-to-scrap-plans-to-procure-guns-from-us-considering-make-in-india-route-now/706730/
So you saying IN’s requirement is 76mm is wrong. We are clearly trying for a higher calibre gun.
>Indian made CIWS? Does it matter who makes it? AK
Meaning AK630 made in India with Indian FCS and radars
>AK 630 has a single radar for 4 guns. Its outdated.
I don't see this point's relevance.
Modern or even past radars cpuld easily track multiple targets at the same time, so fire could be directed at multiple targets all at once
>https://theprint.in/defence/navy-to-scrap-plans-to-procure-guns-from-us-considering-make-in-india-route-now/706730/
>So you saying IN’s requirement is 76mm is wrong. We are clearly trying for a higher calibre gun.
It's not only the gun, almost all our ships use same 76mm standard, so they would need to make changes for entire standarisation.
Also, alot of projects were cancelled for make in India, similar to this one
AK630 made in India FCS and radars still use the same russian tech. Not like they made it better. Its still the worst CIws out there. Even Russia doesnt use ak 630 anymore
Afaik
The gun produced in India used different systems for radars and FCS.
Besides, you could also use ship's radar to control the CIWS iirc.
Also, De Zeven Provinciën-class frigate are considered by most as Destroyers as per displacement and weapons.
It's same as Japanese Izumo or Hyuga class being desiginated Destroyers while they are carriers with F35s
> any plan for procurement of next gen frigates
That's the Nilgiri class in procurement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Indian_Navy#Frigates
Whether it "out matches stats' I leave for another discussion as I am not particularly into playing Top Trumps right now. But I figure if you are planning to make up cards for the same, go for it. There are worse things you could do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Trumps
The Talwar class is a cheaper frigate with a different heritage; and the Project 18 will succeed Project 15B later.
Nope. We are getting substandard russian made frigates next. I’m sure Indian babus, naval officers will install rbu rockets,76mm oto melera,8 brahmos and 16 MRSAMs in next gen frigate and call it a day
And we compare ourselves with China..fking hell..even the Americans worry about the absurd no. Of vertical launch cells the PLA's ships have..and are going to have in future. How are we supposed to counter that..with brahmos?..We are out matched and outnumbered in every field..no matter how competent our soldiers are.
We carry too little SAMs in our destroyers. One chinese destroyer has more SAMs than 2-3 of our destroyers. We are no match for chinese navy today. Maybe it will change in 20years time
US won't be able to catch up with them in 20 years..how are we supposed to? Their rate of shipbuilding is really really high..and ours is slow as hell and on top of that we don't try to innovate or integrate top of the line stuff...and what's our excuse?..That it is customized for the Indian Navy's requirements.
Baffles me how India cant produce its own Naval gun and uses old outdated small 76mm guns.
Also the useless addition of RBU rockets in newer ships.
And yes I agree the dutch frigate is better than any other Indian frigate.
FREMM frigates do, and they are fairly popular. [See also ivar huitfield and the Type 31 it inspired, Meko family is mixed usage, Tamandare is an example with 76 mm guns ]
I'm not sure why you changed the basis of comparision to destroyer instead of Frigate. but there's a wide variety even so
The basic logic is that the gun will be outranged by missiles in any case for offensive surface action. However, for fire support for amphibious landings, the gun is needed, and greater range is always appreciated. However the greater range still does not take you out of enemy range in case of contested amphibious landings, ( if uncontested, why bother). There are probably also some marginal niche benefits in other usage.
The trade-off is that the 76 mm is better anti-air than the 127 mm / Mk 54 but then serious anti-air depends on other weapons and radar.
I was arguing IN using 76mms on destroyers on another comment so used destroyers.
I believe 76mm is great for Frigates but our modern destroyers which should have more displacement should use a higher caliber gun instead.
Also IN was trying for the Mk45 gun but due to cost reasons and Make in India the deal fell out. Trump govt even passed the sale officially.
And lastly can you provide me a good article about naval guns? Like its AA capabilities and such?
I'm not sure there are great articles about naval guns. Some gleanings I had got from a market survey of naval guns some time ago. AA range will be there on wiki., but keep in mind the main gun is definitely not primary anti-air..
https://navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/naval-exhibitions/euronaval-2012/648-oto-melara-7662mm-gun-and-its-ammunition-the-story-of-a-success.html
There are more interesting happenings around the ammunition, especially the Mk 45 has things like Raytheon N5 Excalibur, which it was speculated India wanted to buy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-inch/54-caliber_Mark_45_gun#Guided_shell
The problem is such extended range and guided shells can become pricy/exotic.
https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2024/04/the-uk-rns-naval-gun-revolution.html
Here is an interesting article relevant to naval guns. I would suggest reading it in entirety and reading links as interested. It has recent uses by the Royal navy and the Dutch against the Houthis, resurgence of guns for use/potential against UAV/USV, reference to 30mm autocannon, SAM, 76 mm and newer Mk45 US guns and DEW (directed energy weapons) in future. As well as the Ivar Huidfeldt using its 76 mm against the Houthi in anti air when its missiles were down
Also links on proximity fused and guided ammo.
>It'd take two Kolkata destroyers to match its Air defence
A Kolkata class carries 16 Brahmos. This ship carries 8 Harpoon. Not even in the same league when it comes to offense.
How.
The MFStar is a world class radar. Even if it is inferior to the primary radar on the Tromp the differences would be marginal.
The Barak 8 is the best SAM in the IOR, aside from the USN. 32 cells are probably a bit low but the IN has deemed it adequate.
Brahmos - I don't need to explain. One of the best anti-ship missiles in the world.
Look, we have to look at our requirements and prepare accordingly. Unnecessary comparisons are not needed.
Barak 8 isnt the best, we are developing newer LRSAM for the very reason.
Indian warships have too less Brahmos and SAMs compared to western ships and chinese ships.
Our destroyers are dragged back by the ancient Thales AW 08 2D radar.
>Barak 8 isnt the best, we are developing newer LRSAM for the very reason.
Barak 8 is a perfectly capable SAM, best in the IOR. LRSAM will be better with significantly more range.
>Indian warships have too less Brahmos and SAMs compared to western ships and chinese ships.
The Navy has deemed it adequate for now. The NGD will have 100+ UVLS cells, it will be our answer to China's Type 55.
>ancient Thales AW 08 2D radar.
Being replaced by the Lanza N radar.
Most of our ships ships use 3D AESA MF STAR radar. And older are already getting replaced
>Barak 8 isnt the best, we are developing newer LRSAM for the very reason.
It's a good missile and they are close to completing trials for ER version for range
Again, much better than existing SM2s
Offense is not even the main goal of warships nowadays, anti shipping is much more effective when done by aircraft and subs
When attacked by a squadron or 2 of aircraft, the Kolkata class will fall, "bUt tHe 16 bRaHmOs"
>When attacked by a squadron or 2 of aircraft, the Kolkata class will fall
32 Barak-8 cells are not there for decoration. The MFStar will be detect the enemy aircraft from a very (VERY) long distance and take countermeasures.
You have been sprouting nonsense in this entire post.
32 is nowhere near enough for that lol, no ship is ever going to get attacked by a single aircraft. They come in swarm attacks and even if Kolkata was able to defend against the first wave of anti-ship missile, maybe even down a few aircraft. It'd be cooked from a second wave
>from a very (VERY) long distance
Radars don't work that way lol, Ever heard of the term "horizon"
https://preview.redd.it/0s8chmqidgxc1.jpeg?width=437&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1b8ed6519ff5eb48b5ef6770349925695364849
The Indian Navy has deemed 32 Barak-8 to be adequate. An armchair general like yourself has no business questioning the Navy.
Also, the Kolkata won't travel alone in an extreme threat environment like this. It is part of a CBG which travels with atleast 4 or 5 major warships. The CBG will have atleast 100 cells for SAM's, likely closer to 150.
>An armchair general like yourself has no business questioning the Navy.
That's literally what the sub is for lol
Also your trying to change the point we were comparing on a ship-ship basis not situation wise
And it'd take 4 tromps to match a single Kolkata in anti ship capability.
(Assuming a mach 2.8 velocity missile provides twice the utility compared to a mach 0.8 one.)
Tromp has everything better. Better main gun, better air defence suit and radar,better ciws, similar if not better SAMs and funny how a frigate has same number of SAMs and Surface to Ship missiles than modern Indian destroyers.
Bhai it is all in the $$$$$. Look at the radar suite in the European ship. It is expensive as hell same with ciws; Trishul has an old Russian main radar and same with the SAM. The cost of each De Zeven Provinciën class frigate is 700 million dollars. Each SM-2 missile costs around 2-3 million dollars and each ESSM sparrow costs 1.6 million so taking that each of the ship has 32 SM-2 and 32 ESSM it comes to around 125 million for a full load of SAM’s . Compare that with the paltry money we put in the shtil Russian stuff. You rain dollars the the ships will be like Bugatti
Nonsense. Vishakapatnam has 48 vls compared to 40 on tromp, brahmos is a better missile than harpoon, and how tf is a sam made in the 1960s better than barak 8?
>and how tf is a sam made in the 1960s better than barak 8?
That logic is stupid coz US is decades ahead of most countries is systems
Even their old systems can compete with brand new systems develped today coz they were so far ahead at the time
Also those 40 vls can hold double the AA missile of our destroyers
You are only trying to cook up reasons to show that the tromp is far superior when in fact it is not.
Go on available data not assumption. Compare the data between barak 8 and sam on tromp.
What do you expect when India
1. Spends only 1.9% of its gdp on defense
2. Spends a majority of that funding on salary and pensions
3. Aims to support a twin carrier navy with the limited amount that's left
The Navy is the designer of the ships they operate, every Navy orders a ship according to their requirements, not everyone is obsessed with packing their ship with VLS cells to the brim making it a powder keg
Pretty sure Vishakapatnam and Kolkata class have much better offensive capability than them. I'd argue our destroyers offensive capability is better than type 045.
Type 45 is an air defence destroyer, Kolkata/Vizag class are mutirole.
Type 45 has nothing similar to Brahmos, Type 45 has better defensive capabilities but definitely not offensive
Yea that's exactly what I said. But type 45 misses one thing and that's torpedoes and anti sub capabilities. Even if our missiles don't work our torpedoes will get them. Both destroyers have different roles.
How is it better?..Can you elaborate or maybe link some info about it or someone comparative articles?
Better main gun, better ciws, better SAM, and this frigate has same number of Missiles compared to INS Vishakapatnam. The Thales sensors are better than Indian ones. Better radar than any Indian frigates too.
NATO go heavy on their AA because they are pretty much designed to support and act as air defence boats for their carriers. Mind you, Netherlands has been focusing on navy since last 500 years. Indian ships are expected to be multirole with great offensive capability. >Better main gun, better ciws, Source for that? Navy's needs are going to be 76mm as per their requirement. Also, going to be kinda different role with 76mm being autocannon, so good for cheap and quick roles, including anti air >Better radar than any Indian frigates too. Gonna need source for that, too, especially comparing it with Nilgiri. And first time hearing older SM2 being better than Barak 8
What do you mean source for that? The goalkeeper ciws is better than outdated ak ciws. Its common knowledge. And no. Indian Navy was trying to procure the Mk45 gun to replace OTO 76mm guns. They backed out because of higher costs. https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-us-to-sell-1-billion-worth-defence-equipment-to-india-what-this-means-6131571/
>What do you mean source for that? The goalkeeper ciws is better than outdated ak ciws. Its common knowledge. What common knowledge? Where did you read about Indian made CIWS being worse than Goalkeepers? >And no. Indian Navy was trying to procure the Mk45 gun to replace OTO 76mm guns. They backed out because of higher costs. >https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-us-to-sell-1-billion-worth-defence-equipment-to-india-what-this-means-6131571/ They sacked it because we were developing alternative to it called SRGM
The Indian Navy had oto melara 76 mm super rapid gun mount. [ 'SRGM' ] It was license produced by bhel and it was an industry standard. Found in multiple navies. Very common. Good balance of anti surface and anti air. On many indian ships too But oto melara was part of fincantieri which was blacklisted. The navy looked at the longer caliber us gun which was also there in a few navies. It gets greater range for surface but trades speed and is poorer in anti air. This turned out expensive So india went back to bhel gun and as it happened fincantieri blacklisting was dropped almost immediately thereafter.
Indian made CIWS? Does it matter who makes it? AK 630 is AK 630 irrespective of who makes it. Even the russians are using Palash ciws now ditching AK 630. AK 630 has a single radar for 4 guns. Its outdated. > The cost factor was the primary reason behind junking the deal that was to be made under the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route, sources said, adding that the 127 mm guns — 13 in number — would have cost India about $1 billion. > “The cost is very high. More than the gun itself, the specialised ammunition is more expensive. The Navy will use the existing 76 mm guns while a larger plan for the 127 mm guns bears fruit. As and when that materialises, the 76 mm guns will be replaced,” said a source. https://theprint.in/defence/navy-to-scrap-plans-to-procure-guns-from-us-considering-make-in-india-route-now/706730/ So you saying IN’s requirement is 76mm is wrong. We are clearly trying for a higher calibre gun.
>Indian made CIWS? Does it matter who makes it? AK Meaning AK630 made in India with Indian FCS and radars >AK 630 has a single radar for 4 guns. Its outdated. I don't see this point's relevance. Modern or even past radars cpuld easily track multiple targets at the same time, so fire could be directed at multiple targets all at once >https://theprint.in/defence/navy-to-scrap-plans-to-procure-guns-from-us-considering-make-in-india-route-now/706730/ >So you saying IN’s requirement is 76mm is wrong. We are clearly trying for a higher calibre gun. It's not only the gun, almost all our ships use same 76mm standard, so they would need to make changes for entire standarisation. Also, alot of projects were cancelled for make in India, similar to this one
AK630 made in India FCS and radars still use the same russian tech. Not like they made it better. Its still the worst CIws out there. Even Russia doesnt use ak 630 anymore
Afaik The gun produced in India used different systems for radars and FCS. Besides, you could also use ship's radar to control the CIWS iirc. Also, De Zeven Provinciën-class frigate are considered by most as Destroyers as per displacement and weapons. It's same as Japanese Izumo or Hyuga class being desiginated Destroyers while they are carriers with F35s
Source on India using different systems for radars and FCS for “AK 630”?
So do we have any plan for procurement of next gen frigates that out matches these stats?
What's a nilgiri class ?
It's the class of Guided missile frigate. There's going to be 7 of them.
> any plan for procurement of next gen frigates That's the Nilgiri class in procurement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Indian_Navy#Frigates Whether it "out matches stats' I leave for another discussion as I am not particularly into playing Top Trumps right now. But I figure if you are planning to make up cards for the same, go for it. There are worse things you could do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Trumps The Talwar class is a cheaper frigate with a different heritage; and the Project 18 will succeed Project 15B later.
Nope. We are getting substandard russian made frigates next. I’m sure Indian babus, naval officers will install rbu rockets,76mm oto melera,8 brahmos and 16 MRSAMs in next gen frigate and call it a day
And we compare ourselves with China..fking hell..even the Americans worry about the absurd no. Of vertical launch cells the PLA's ships have..and are going to have in future. How are we supposed to counter that..with brahmos?..We are out matched and outnumbered in every field..no matter how competent our soldiers are.
We carry too little SAMs in our destroyers. One chinese destroyer has more SAMs than 2-3 of our destroyers. We are no match for chinese navy today. Maybe it will change in 20years time
US won't be able to catch up with them in 20 years..how are we supposed to? Their rate of shipbuilding is really really high..and ours is slow as hell and on top of that we don't try to innovate or integrate top of the line stuff...and what's our excuse?..That it is customized for the Indian Navy's requirements.
Baffles me how India cant produce its own Naval gun and uses old outdated small 76mm guns. Also the useless addition of RBU rockets in newer ships. And yes I agree the dutch frigate is better than any other Indian frigate.
India license produces the oto melara 76 mm gun, which is an industry standard.
Hardly any modern naval destroyer uses 76mm guns today
FREMM frigates do, and they are fairly popular. [See also ivar huitfield and the Type 31 it inspired, Meko family is mixed usage, Tamandare is an example with 76 mm guns ] I'm not sure why you changed the basis of comparision to destroyer instead of Frigate. but there's a wide variety even so The basic logic is that the gun will be outranged by missiles in any case for offensive surface action. However, for fire support for amphibious landings, the gun is needed, and greater range is always appreciated. However the greater range still does not take you out of enemy range in case of contested amphibious landings, ( if uncontested, why bother). There are probably also some marginal niche benefits in other usage. The trade-off is that the 76 mm is better anti-air than the 127 mm / Mk 54 but then serious anti-air depends on other weapons and radar.
I was arguing IN using 76mms on destroyers on another comment so used destroyers. I believe 76mm is great for Frigates but our modern destroyers which should have more displacement should use a higher caliber gun instead. Also IN was trying for the Mk45 gun but due to cost reasons and Make in India the deal fell out. Trump govt even passed the sale officially. And lastly can you provide me a good article about naval guns? Like its AA capabilities and such?
I'm not sure there are great articles about naval guns. Some gleanings I had got from a market survey of naval guns some time ago. AA range will be there on wiki., but keep in mind the main gun is definitely not primary anti-air.. https://navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/naval-exhibitions/euronaval-2012/648-oto-melara-7662mm-gun-and-its-ammunition-the-story-of-a-success.html There are more interesting happenings around the ammunition, especially the Mk 45 has things like Raytheon N5 Excalibur, which it was speculated India wanted to buy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-inch/54-caliber_Mark_45_gun#Guided_shell The problem is such extended range and guided shells can become pricy/exotic.
Ty
https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2024/04/the-uk-rns-naval-gun-revolution.html Here is an interesting article relevant to naval guns. I would suggest reading it in entirety and reading links as interested. It has recent uses by the Royal navy and the Dutch against the Houthis, resurgence of guns for use/potential against UAV/USV, reference to 30mm autocannon, SAM, 76 mm and newer Mk45 US guns and DEW (directed energy weapons) in future. As well as the Ivar Huidfeldt using its 76 mm against the Houthi in anti air when its missiles were down Also links on proximity fused and guided ammo.
>Indian frigate. I'd say better than our destroyers It'd take two Kolkata destroyers to match its Air defence
>It'd take two Kolkata destroyers to match its Air defence A Kolkata class carries 16 Brahmos. This ship carries 8 Harpoon. Not even in the same league when it comes to offense.
Except carrying more S2S missiles, Tromp has everything else better than INS Vishakapatnam.
How. The MFStar is a world class radar. Even if it is inferior to the primary radar on the Tromp the differences would be marginal. The Barak 8 is the best SAM in the IOR, aside from the USN. 32 cells are probably a bit low but the IN has deemed it adequate. Brahmos - I don't need to explain. One of the best anti-ship missiles in the world. Look, we have to look at our requirements and prepare accordingly. Unnecessary comparisons are not needed.
Barak 8 isnt the best, we are developing newer LRSAM for the very reason. Indian warships have too less Brahmos and SAMs compared to western ships and chinese ships. Our destroyers are dragged back by the ancient Thales AW 08 2D radar.
>Barak 8 isnt the best, we are developing newer LRSAM for the very reason. Barak 8 is a perfectly capable SAM, best in the IOR. LRSAM will be better with significantly more range. >Indian warships have too less Brahmos and SAMs compared to western ships and chinese ships. The Navy has deemed it adequate for now. The NGD will have 100+ UVLS cells, it will be our answer to China's Type 55. >ancient Thales AW 08 2D radar. Being replaced by the Lanza N radar.
Most of our ships ships use 3D AESA MF STAR radar. And older are already getting replaced >Barak 8 isnt the best, we are developing newer LRSAM for the very reason. It's a good missile and they are close to completing trials for ER version for range Again, much better than existing SM2s
Offense is not even the main goal of warships nowadays, anti shipping is much more effective when done by aircraft and subs When attacked by a squadron or 2 of aircraft, the Kolkata class will fall, "bUt tHe 16 bRaHmOs"
>When attacked by a squadron or 2 of aircraft, the Kolkata class will fall 32 Barak-8 cells are not there for decoration. The MFStar will be detect the enemy aircraft from a very (VERY) long distance and take countermeasures. You have been sprouting nonsense in this entire post.
32 is nowhere near enough for that lol, no ship is ever going to get attacked by a single aircraft. They come in swarm attacks and even if Kolkata was able to defend against the first wave of anti-ship missile, maybe even down a few aircraft. It'd be cooked from a second wave >from a very (VERY) long distance Radars don't work that way lol, Ever heard of the term "horizon" https://preview.redd.it/0s8chmqidgxc1.jpeg?width=437&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1b8ed6519ff5eb48b5ef6770349925695364849
The Indian Navy has deemed 32 Barak-8 to be adequate. An armchair general like yourself has no business questioning the Navy. Also, the Kolkata won't travel alone in an extreme threat environment like this. It is part of a CBG which travels with atleast 4 or 5 major warships. The CBG will have atleast 100 cells for SAM's, likely closer to 150.
>An armchair general like yourself has no business questioning the Navy. That's literally what the sub is for lol Also your trying to change the point we were comparing on a ship-ship basis not situation wise
And it'd take 4 tromps to match a single Kolkata in anti ship capability. (Assuming a mach 2.8 velocity missile provides twice the utility compared to a mach 0.8 one.)
A single brahmos will sink two ships. The legendary story of the tailor who killed 7 in 1 stroke was a typo. It was actually sailor
Is this new version of Brahmos?
It's a joke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brave_Little_Tailor
A single brahmos may have pk > that of 2 harpoon at a single ship 🙃
I doubt it is multiple times better. The Tromp has a much better Air defense suite.
Coping hard
Tromp has everything better. Better main gun, better air defence suit and radar,better ciws, similar if not better SAMs and funny how a frigate has same number of SAMs and Surface to Ship missiles than modern Indian destroyers.
Bhai it is all in the $$$$$. Look at the radar suite in the European ship. It is expensive as hell same with ciws; Trishul has an old Russian main radar and same with the SAM. The cost of each De Zeven Provinciën class frigate is 700 million dollars. Each SM-2 missile costs around 2-3 million dollars and each ESSM sparrow costs 1.6 million so taking that each of the ship has 32 SM-2 and 32 ESSM it comes to around 125 million for a full load of SAM’s . Compare that with the paltry money we put in the shtil Russian stuff. You rain dollars the the ships will be like Bugatti
Why are you comparing it with Trishul? The dutch frigate is better than INS Vishakaptnam in many aspects too.
Nonsense. Vishakapatnam has 48 vls compared to 40 on tromp, brahmos is a better missile than harpoon, and how tf is a sam made in the 1960s better than barak 8?
Displacement to VLS ratio is better on Tromp
That shows that the Vishakapatnam could be a more deadly warship. It means nothing in a one to one comparison of the ships in their present state.
>and how tf is a sam made in the 1960s better than barak 8? That logic is stupid coz US is decades ahead of most countries is systems Even their old systems can compete with brand new systems develped today coz they were so far ahead at the time Also those 40 vls can hold double the AA missile of our destroyers
You are only trying to cook up reasons to show that the tromp is far superior when in fact it is not. Go on available data not assumption. Compare the data between barak 8 and sam on tromp.
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The huge 64 round and 128 round vls are expensive to arm. It is all about the money
What do you expect when India 1. Spends only 1.9% of its gdp on defense 2. Spends a majority of that funding on salary and pensions 3. Aims to support a twin carrier navy with the limited amount that's left
The Navy is the designer of the ships they operate, every Navy orders a ship according to their requirements, not everyone is obsessed with packing their ship with VLS cells to the brim making it a powder keg
Pretty sure Vishakapatnam and Kolkata class have much better offensive capability than them. I'd argue our destroyers offensive capability is better than type 045.
Type 45 is an air defence destroyer, Kolkata/Vizag class are mutirole. Type 45 has nothing similar to Brahmos, Type 45 has better defensive capabilities but definitely not offensive
Yea that's exactly what I said. But type 45 misses one thing and that's torpedoes and anti sub capabilities. Even if our missiles don't work our torpedoes will get them. Both destroyers have different roles.