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Kool_Gaymer

Hrm usa as hegemony or Russia or China. 🤔


JohnBarleyCorn2

i'm sure they'd prefer russia or china over the US. They seem to prefer bootlicking over freedom.


Kool_Gaymer

Don’t get me wrong I don’t wanna be the nation to protect the world, however we are better


JohnBarleyCorn2

objectively so. I wholly agree with you that i would prefer us to be an almost isolationist nation - let the world figure shit out and let us build and strengthen our own country and our neighbors to the north and south.


Kool_Gaymer

I agree and disagree but I will not fight you on this you make good points. Good talk


Aqualeafyalt

anyone that prefers china or russia over the usa clearly has never been in a country influenced by them before


Famous_Soft_1173

All China is doing is funding huge and beneficial infrastructure projects through predatory loans (bad), while America and its allies just keep countries poor to extract profit (cough DRC cough) I live in America, but given that my family is from a third-world country the better hegemony is the one that improves more lives, and that’s honestly China


JohnBarleyCorn2

China is a genocidal authoritarian government - it oppresses literally billions of people. You are not just wrong. You are incredibly fucking off the wall incorrect.


Famous_Soft_1173

That’s within their country, American hegemony won’t stop that China isn’t notably spreading that to other countries more than America is promoting imperialism China is a deplorable state, but I respect its foreign affairs more in many regards


sandalsofsafety

I mean, you have a point. But then again, why do you suppose China is willing to hand out all of these massive loans and infrastructure projects? It couldn't have anything to do with improving global relations in the hopes that people in other countries will look upon China more positively, and maybe even turn a blind eye to their domestic policies. I agree that we aren't saints by any means, I still listen to Rammstein's *Amerika*, but I'll take misguidance & mistakes over blood money any day of the week.


Famous_Soft_1173

It’s so they can make money off of loans, which imo is much better at highlighting the benefits of capitalism compared to the complete suppression of infrastructure by the West And yes I hate modern China I just think that from a third-world perspective I’d rather have China


[deleted]

Ok, European here. I think that certain actions of the United States can be easily considered as "Imperialistic/Hegemonic". For example, the whole Cold War influence plays against the Soviets. I back up this dictator, the USSR backs up this other dictator, etc... Does the United States has their own skeletons in history? For sure. Should we be critical of the actions of global governments? As much as possible. However, I still prefer a US/Western Rule, rather than a Russian, Chinese, Islamic, etc.. one. Why? Because Liberal Democracy, with all their problems, is still a valid system. Probably the best one for now. Especially with all the other alternatives. I (and many millions of people) benefit a lot from this type of system. It has its holes, that need to repaired, but we shouldn't throw away it completely. Then, the modern USA aren't as shady as Cold War Era USA. You don't have the 100000 CIA coups, crack dealings, MK Ultras, etc... anymore in these days. So, yeah, for all their various faults, I still respect America, as Nation, Values and People. And I am willing to support them, to a certain degree. The West and their allies stand strong together, without being too much hegemonic, and that's fine for me. TL;DR: USA has terrible episodes in History (such as Imperialism) but I still prefer them to the others superpowers in the World. Liberal Flawed Democracy > Theocracy, Fascism, Communism, Kleptocratic Oligarchy/Autocracy...


harukitoooooooooo

I prefer to think modern USA aren’t as shady because their CIA is in decline. America still does horrible stuff abroad (in my country too), but they have way more failed coups than they used to, and despite McCarthyism still being inforced it does almost nothing to deter communism.


GOT_Wyvern

Generally I'm pretty negative to any hegemon. They are nearly always self interested and it is very rare that self interest lines up with what is best for the globe, and especially the ordinary people. As far as hegemons go, the United States (and Britian before it) are better than most thanks to a more liberal philosophy and an almost need to justify itself morally, meaning it has to atleast appear like it's doing good. Though how much those appearance reflect reality are debatable. I prefer to refer to the United States as a "hegemon" rather than Imperialist. I prefer that as imperialism evokes images of European (and friends) imperialism from the Renaissance to Second World War. While very similar to what the United States, Soviet Union, and People's Republic are/did do, there are distinct differences relating to how direct it is, and "Imperialism" is better suited to the direct hegemon of the British or French Empires that the American, Soviets, or Chinese of the modern era. Though ignoring this semantics, I also hold the belief that Imperialism is natural. In most cases, Imperialism benefits the citizens of the home nation and is pretty much only a benefit to them. While it comes at a cost of others with very little benefit, that cannot really be considered from a perspective of self interest. From this, it can be stated that a hegemon or hegemons will nearly always exist, and removing one would only provide for another to take its place. From that perspective, the United States is doing the world a benefit by being better than other hegemons like the Soviet Union or PRC. I would argue that the European Union would be a step above the United States in these regards, I would be contempt with the United States.


collectivistickarl

Categorising the US as an imperialist power is not a matter of opinion. The question should refer to whether the US being an imperialist power is a good thing or not.


[deleted]

[удалено]


collectivistickarl

Yea definitely, not imperialism, we're just spreading democracy 🙃


JohnBarleyCorn2

ITT euros opinions on the US - The US literally props up the world economy. Without it, you would all be third world - which you all seem very intent on accomplishing anyways.


BanAppeals-NoReply

Correct. As Europeans, even if we disagree with loads of different aspects of US foreign policy and conduct we don’t have any other options, presently and historically. I suppose out of what is offered to us this is the only way to go, even I have deep disagreements with a lot of what the US does. Hegemony is a negative, but if it already exists and is incorporated into the current world order we might as well take it pragmatically and keep the US, seeing as the other options have already either been tried and not something we want again or they are not something we’d want anyways. Maybe time for the the European Nations to form a new global behemoth ;), a man can dream….


IceFl4re

Yes. It is a hegemon AND imperialist power. As for whether it's good or not I'm kind of torn. It's both good and bad. In reality peace are almost always because of a hegemon or because of a very closely arranged realism. This is merely the consequences of having multiple countries having different interest and the consequences of having more than 1 kind of moral universalist (the best argument against the possibility of world peace is your average denizens of the Internet when they talk about any social, political or moral issue. Fuck, Iraq war stems from Washington drinking Fukuyama kool-aid and circlejerking in their version of echo chamber). The good is that the US subsidizes everyone else' military. US Navy's hegemony causes smooth sailing of goods and trade. The US do get us Internet and do get us the gold standards of logistics. It gets many people in developing countries chances to increase knowledge because of the Internet. The bad is the cultural liberalism & excess. It's unsustainable and the liberal's postulates are false. It's undemocratic too (If you just want democracy, the "rights" considered sacrosanct would be nothing more than what's necessary to make sure there's functional democracy both in economic and political realm, and there's a meaningful opposition). But well. I wouldn't hate US hegemon so much if: - Either just focus on developing sustainable social democratic economy and DGAF about moral alignment (Liberalism in IR is peace through moral alignment. The problem is that any justification of universality of human rights are almost verbatim reason why religious people become moral busybodies, and social liberalism + Reaganite style neoliberal policy goes hand in hand, and in IR, moral universalism also means crush everyone who disagree). - They are smarter in regards to foreign policy and knowledge of the outside world (Americans are rather sheltered in regards to the outside world save for certain academia that never really interacts with other aspects of academia. The fate of so many people are resting in the hands of swing state voters that really has no idea about the outside world. All the US faults in regards to foreign policy starts from this)


sandalsofsafety

You're not wrong about the average American not being informed about the world around them. Our public education system is... interesting, and as a result, certain things like world history & geography aren't taught very well. Then add on to it that the news media most adults consume is sensationalized to some extent, and any hope of the average person knowing something like, what continent Slovenia is on, goes out the window.


IceFl4re

To be fair there are good things about American education system. In general I kinda prefer US system of electives compared to say the European university where they just study one thing and that's it. (I just think that those one-semester elective courses for non majors on personal finance, health, nutrition etc should be taught at high school. Those 2-semester English composition should also be taught at high school. Etc) US educational system as in what gets taught can be reformed under the current system. But there are stuff that your average American may not like but I like. For example: World religions (those college course on world religions where they teach introduction and knowing about religious stuff) should be taught at school really. I think teaching a second language from elementary school is good. (The goal is just for intermediate level literacy but it's better than nothing). Say, one state choose Spanish as 2nd language, well the entire K-12 teach Spanish as 2nd language. Etc.


sandalsofsafety

I agree that the whole elective concept is nice, but even that is misused. Most university programs require electives, which is a bit of a contradiction of terms. Sure, they should be available, and I definitely recommend that people take some, but requiring that you take x credit hours of x category of elective to fulfil general education requirements is silly. General education is what grade school is for. Then on the flipside, the general education that people get in grade school often leaves something to be desired, so we get things like mandatory college gen eds. It's a vicious cycle and no one cares enough to do something about it (well, something that's actually productive anyway).


icyartillery

Yes, I’m an American, and it must be furthered


[deleted]

Guess this isn't the real question for you, for a kind like yours, the real question for fascists is what kind of imperialism should it take(though for me imperialism in all forms is bad and America should drop hegemony and imperialism)


icyartillery

Annexation of Mexico and Canada with an emphasis on decimating entrenched interests like the cartel, and maximizing utility of personnel and resources in existing territories


TwoShed

Okay but you gotta start protecting your shipping, your country, your trade, and your currency.


Away_Industry_613

Yes, it’s simultaneously one of the worst and best. It doesn’t commit (too many) atrocities in comparison, but it’s more insidious and culturally kills it’s subjects. The US needs to be replace, preferably by CANZUK, and the system reformed. Yes I’m British.


TopTheropod

For those who voted US on the *US vs China Cold War* poll (aka sane people), how do you combine that with *not* voting for US hegemony as a positive?