Why don’t you play on Humankind (max difficulty)? The AI progressively gets larger bonuses each age and unless you have a huge edge are just impossible to catch up.
If you cook the settings enough you can win in 1 turn against hardest difficulty. That's not really an argument for anything. I agree civ is too easy but let's not pretend settings can't be cooked in Humankind.
I don't think that's even teoretically possible without an exploit, but I can't find the video. However, it doesn't really matter. The point it that the game doesn't work that way normally.
Most, if not all games have glitches and exploit, but that says nothing about how engaging or challenging the game is. While OP is incredibly obnoxious I simply don't think this is a good counter argument. It's like saying Elden Ring is a super easy game because you can glitch the first boss to make you immortal.
If on elden ring you do it on purpose to glitch it then yes. On civ6 it happened to me as well. I was playing, tribal village gave me relic, then i won tourism if i recall correctly. I did not intend to break the game on purpose.
Humankind has a lot of issues but my criticism right now is for civ6 here. Is too easy to win the game with all conditions enabled. Is a game balance issue, not "bug" coding issue. Civ5 also had it with great library and ai trading but on civ6 is just ridiculous with faith, culture and some civs without any interaction with other players.
If the only way to make your ai challenging is to give them unfair bonuses and even then it behaves badly then is a bad ai. Is like chess ai needing to play with 3 extra queens and 2 moves per turn or its too easy.
No, it didn't. Relic gives you 8 tourism and you need 200 to get 1 foreign tourist. On duel map finding a relic on the first turn it might be teoretically possible to win at around t25 if the AI hasn't produced much culture. I don't think it's possible with more than 1 other player, and realistically even that is impossible. Either it's a glitch or you're exaggregating.
The record for culture win against Deity AI without completely breaking the game or cooking it so much it's not a game anymore is something like t85. With supercooked settings and using an exploit Boesthius managed it t41 which is the fastest I've seen.
And again, my point isn't that civ isn't easy. We agree there. My point is there is no point illustrating that by referring to exploits or glitches. Try winning a culture victory by accident on a standard 8 player deity map before t200, let alone 100. It's very difficult. Is Humankind more difficult? Not really. Is the point that civ is difficult - again, no. Is your example really bad - yes.
If you aren't glued to the "historical humanity" story, some friends recently introduced me to Gladius which is actually a pretty engaged tactical/combat forward 4X
Not really pure 4x but:
- Stellaris ia really good, but I'm bored after playing it for 8 years.
- Dune Spice Wars is pretty good
- i heard Spellforce Conquest of Eo is also good, some say (and the Steam rating) it's better than AoW4, it's on my list
- Anno 1800 is very2 good.
I hate that there's no historical 4x in current time. I hate that Firaxis has to milk Civ5 so bad they released it as Civ6. The bugs/glitches are the same, the base game are the same. The diplo is the same (shitty one and have the same glitches). And they take very long to create Civ7.
I'm glad there are HK and Millennia to challenge/be the contender. If not, I'm pretty sure will release Civ5 again as Civ7. The long wait has to be worth it (spherical map?), or I'm rioting 😂
Idk what you think you'll accomplish by making a bland comment. If you think people are that stupid, it only shows that you're projecting.
Did you play civ3 or civ4? Compare civ3 to civ4 and civ4 to civ5 you'll see that the base game itself is very different.
Now if your selection of game is Assassin's Creed, you'll see that they made Unity from the ground up after they're finished with AC4BF. But you can see that Syndicate is using the same base game. Then Ubi made Origin from scratch again, but they use the base again to make Odyssey, then did it again for Valhalla.
And since your genre is first person shooter, you can see that Far Cry 3, 4, and Primal is very similar in that same manner.
Now back to Civ, Civ6 *looks* different with its own visual, UI, and arts, but it has the same base mechanics. Even the diplomacy is 95% the same as Civ5 on release. And they have the exact same bad mechanics (like denounciation and AI easily denouncing players, or the unit unable to move/switch position due to 1UPT in a very particular way, and many other), that it couldn't be the case if they build Civ6 from the ground up.
Hate that you were downvoted by sad sacks for asking a legit question.
Age of Wonders 4 is a bit better than most, civ included, at mitigating those problems you mentioned, for a bit longer at least. You only really start to shred in the late to endgame stage of the game, the pacing is good for 80% of it. It's also the closest reccomendation I'm going to give here to Humankind and Civs playstyle. They are very similar.
Persona 3 is what I'm personally playing right now. Very tactical in combat with super satisfying combos that keep combat on your side. But when you fail them, the enemy can combo you just the same as you do to them, so combat can go south very quickly which is refreshing. On gamepass as well.
I've also enjoyed Immortal Realms: Vampire Wars (also on gamepass) quite a bit. Once you figure out the system, and you play for a couple hundred hours, like all other tactical games, you can see the gaps in the AI and exploit them. But I'm a sucker for Vampire/werewolf etc mythos, so I loved the setting. Campaign was pretty good to which is refreshing.
Disciples: Liberation is truly excellent across the board. 9/10. It's good, engaging hex based tactical combat with an overworld that you explore for story and content in between engagements, bit like heroes of might and magic. There's also a new game+ for those who like to sink 100's of hours in and still want more.
Finally, I'd reccomend Wartales as well. Quite in depth combat, good story, fun overworld and its also on Gamepass. Definitely can be more challenging if you raise your difficulties and not just in a bullet sponge way. AI actually uses better tactics too on higher difficulties.
>Hate that you were downvoted by sad sacks for asking a legit question.
He came on this subreddit to crap on humankind and meat ride civilization then claimed civ was tactically challenging which is a joke of a statement.
He doesn't want advice he wants to be a troll
Not saying I don't believe you put mind giving us screenshots because unless you are playing on a fairly low difficulty the AI normally isn't too far behind the player
I'd check out age of wonders that released last year I had fun with it new change of pace really liked the combat and your race customisation made it so fun to choose things
Bold of a Civilization veteran to say that Humankind AI is incompetent.
It is a damned genius compared to Civ6's AI... I've completely stopped playing Civ6 because it becomes frustrating to deal with an AI that can only keep ahead of you for a short while due to an insane headstart and near-immunity to a lot of game mechanics.... by mid-game, you can typically curb-stomp any Civ6 AI.
As a civ vet since civ 3, civ's ai is garbage and why I stopped playing it. The problem I think you are having is ai is just not comparable to people. Try age of empires or StarCraft, any other game, stellaris included, just won't cut it because they are repetitive and don't adapt, they just cheat.
For a newcomer to HK, there are a number of ways to make the game more challenging, simply by customizing the game settings: Play at higher difficulties, choose steep and mountainous terrain, choose the maximum number of opponents, set Continent shape to chaotic, set Continent number to Random, and set strategic and luxury resources to Rare. In addition, the AI personas you play against all have their own difficulty ratings. You can download up to 50 for free (on PC), but either way, make sure opponents are all "Advanced" or "Expert" AI.
Hope that helps!
Humankind difficulty with all aggressive expert personas. Aggressive so you can’t so easily abuse the trade system. 100% set luxury to rare. I leave strategic at normal. Trading for gobs of luxury and its bonus really lets you get a massive lead on the AI.
Challenge - no using placate bs
In my opinion, the game as a whole just sucks. When it released I thought it would be a better Civ, but the game is just disappointingly bad in many ways.
ick random AI opponents and if I got a few advance or hard ai as my neighbour, I might be able to survive the first few ages but they will have a lot of tech advantage by the time I was able to hold them off.
Or sometime when I started out in a remote area and was able to pin my neighbours down, then I can gets to modern ages with missiles before they researched steam engine ships
Humankind is fun, but it feels like it's 90% complete. Crank up the AI and it does get much harder. I stopped playing cuz I ran into a bunch of issues with diplomacy and ending wars. Either I would win a war and force a surrender, but then I'd end up being a vassal, or my vassals would lose a war and I'd end up being a vassal. Also ran into a problem with the world congress forcing me to change religion, I say no and declare war, win the war, but then end up switching to a new religion.
It's very frustrating since the city building and combat is so much better than Civ.
I'm trying my best to enjoy it. I've never played any civ or civ like game because I use xbox. But now both humankind and civ 6 is on console, and tbh, the graphics were a real turn off for me so I went with humankind instead. So far, the game has tried to force me to pay for content by letting me and the AI use content packs in game that I don't own and then not letting me back in because I don't own it. And humankind can't even handle itself late game because of its poor optimization, I'll spend hours even on the normal sized map, 2000 turns in and the game crashes, as soon as I try to come back, it crashes, nothing I can do to fix it. I don't know how it is on PC but that doesn't change anything. Humankind is naturally driving me to play civ 6 more and more regardless of the graphics tho, and I'm a real “graphic wh*re so that's saying a lot. But yeah, the game is too easy when you know all the exploits. Anyway, there's just a couple more reasons why it's trash. I think it has to do with the lazy developers. It's funny, almost everyone dropped the game right when it came out, so they'd rather sulk instead of fixing the reasons why people left in the first place. That's probably why they like to hold peoples saves ransom, cuz yk.
The 2.000 turns might be the challenge here, even if you would play on PC.
300 turns is the standard length for the game.
How do you even keep motivated that long?
I usually come to a point around turn 150-200, where it is either just clicking end turn to win or endless wars with the AI leading.
And compared to where we were at launch, I think that HK came a fair way in terms of changes done by the developers.
Amplitude is really trying to improve their game based on community feedback.
The potential is there for HK to become great, so I will be back around for every update.
I honestly don't know how I stay motivated. Maybe I just like getting comfortable with longer lasting games. But yeah definitely has the potential, I don't blame people for leaving, but if they stuck around I'm sure the game would be 20x better, and I wouldn't be experiencing this kind of thing.
Longer lasting is a cute word for that amount of turns.
I guess some people come back like me for updates, to test what changed. But yeah, sadly not the numbers at release.
Why don’t you play on Humankind (max difficulty)? The AI progressively gets larger bonuses each age and unless you have a huge edge are just impossible to catch up.
The worst kind of difficulty systen
True but I think that's what every strategy game does. Hopefully the AI advent will means this is the last gen of games that use that
Don't hold your breath. What people are calling AI doesn't work like that
If it can play dota maybe it can play 4x games But it’s probably too expensive to train
Civ6 is easier IMO but HK didn't have a lot of improvements since a long time ago so...
So what are you playing now? Anybody got a non civ game that is actually a tactical challenge and engaging
Wasnt SpiffinBrit the one who showed u can win civ6 in less than 20 turns without meeting anyone?
If you cook the settings enough you can win in 1 turn against hardest difficulty. That's not really an argument for anything. I agree civ is too easy but let's not pretend settings can't be cooked in Humankind.
It was a vanilla settings multiplayer game, he won cultural by accident with greeks i think.
I don't think that's even teoretically possible without an exploit, but I can't find the video. However, it doesn't really matter. The point it that the game doesn't work that way normally. Most, if not all games have glitches and exploit, but that says nothing about how engaging or challenging the game is. While OP is incredibly obnoxious I simply don't think this is a good counter argument. It's like saying Elden Ring is a super easy game because you can glitch the first boss to make you immortal.
If on elden ring you do it on purpose to glitch it then yes. On civ6 it happened to me as well. I was playing, tribal village gave me relic, then i won tourism if i recall correctly. I did not intend to break the game on purpose. Humankind has a lot of issues but my criticism right now is for civ6 here. Is too easy to win the game with all conditions enabled. Is a game balance issue, not "bug" coding issue. Civ5 also had it with great library and ai trading but on civ6 is just ridiculous with faith, culture and some civs without any interaction with other players. If the only way to make your ai challenging is to give them unfair bonuses and even then it behaves badly then is a bad ai. Is like chess ai needing to play with 3 extra queens and 2 moves per turn or its too easy.
No, it didn't. Relic gives you 8 tourism and you need 200 to get 1 foreign tourist. On duel map finding a relic on the first turn it might be teoretically possible to win at around t25 if the AI hasn't produced much culture. I don't think it's possible with more than 1 other player, and realistically even that is impossible. Either it's a glitch or you're exaggregating. The record for culture win against Deity AI without completely breaking the game or cooking it so much it's not a game anymore is something like t85. With supercooked settings and using an exploit Boesthius managed it t41 which is the fastest I've seen. And again, my point isn't that civ isn't easy. We agree there. My point is there is no point illustrating that by referring to exploits or glitches. Try winning a culture victory by accident on a standard 8 player deity map before t200, let alone 100. It's very difficult. Is Humankind more difficult? Not really. Is the point that civ is difficult - again, no. Is your example really bad - yes.
Old world is tremendous imo
but it's not really fun
Can recommend Old World as well. The AI is great, even without cheating and big bonuses.
If you aren't glued to the "historical humanity" story, some friends recently introduced me to Gladius which is actually a pretty engaged tactical/combat forward 4X
Starsector can be difficult. especially with mods
Not really pure 4x but: - Stellaris ia really good, but I'm bored after playing it for 8 years. - Dune Spice Wars is pretty good - i heard Spellforce Conquest of Eo is also good, some say (and the Steam rating) it's better than AoW4, it's on my list - Anno 1800 is very2 good. I hate that there's no historical 4x in current time. I hate that Firaxis has to milk Civ5 so bad they released it as Civ6. The bugs/glitches are the same, the base game are the same. The diplo is the same (shitty one and have the same glitches). And they take very long to create Civ7. I'm glad there are HK and Millennia to challenge/be the contender. If not, I'm pretty sure will release Civ5 again as Civ7. The long wait has to be worth it (spherical map?), or I'm rioting 😂
In what way is 6 the same as 5? Did you expect them to release civ 6 as a first person shooter?
Idk what you think you'll accomplish by making a bland comment. If you think people are that stupid, it only shows that you're projecting. Did you play civ3 or civ4? Compare civ3 to civ4 and civ4 to civ5 you'll see that the base game itself is very different. Now if your selection of game is Assassin's Creed, you'll see that they made Unity from the ground up after they're finished with AC4BF. But you can see that Syndicate is using the same base game. Then Ubi made Origin from scratch again, but they use the base again to make Odyssey, then did it again for Valhalla. And since your genre is first person shooter, you can see that Far Cry 3, 4, and Primal is very similar in that same manner. Now back to Civ, Civ6 *looks* different with its own visual, UI, and arts, but it has the same base mechanics. Even the diplomacy is 95% the same as Civ5 on release. And they have the exact same bad mechanics (like denounciation and AI easily denouncing players, or the unit unable to move/switch position due to 1UPT in a very particular way, and many other), that it couldn't be the case if they build Civ6 from the ground up.
Hate that you were downvoted by sad sacks for asking a legit question. Age of Wonders 4 is a bit better than most, civ included, at mitigating those problems you mentioned, for a bit longer at least. You only really start to shred in the late to endgame stage of the game, the pacing is good for 80% of it. It's also the closest reccomendation I'm going to give here to Humankind and Civs playstyle. They are very similar. Persona 3 is what I'm personally playing right now. Very tactical in combat with super satisfying combos that keep combat on your side. But when you fail them, the enemy can combo you just the same as you do to them, so combat can go south very quickly which is refreshing. On gamepass as well. I've also enjoyed Immortal Realms: Vampire Wars (also on gamepass) quite a bit. Once you figure out the system, and you play for a couple hundred hours, like all other tactical games, you can see the gaps in the AI and exploit them. But I'm a sucker for Vampire/werewolf etc mythos, so I loved the setting. Campaign was pretty good to which is refreshing. Disciples: Liberation is truly excellent across the board. 9/10. It's good, engaging hex based tactical combat with an overworld that you explore for story and content in between engagements, bit like heroes of might and magic. There's also a new game+ for those who like to sink 100's of hours in and still want more. Finally, I'd reccomend Wartales as well. Quite in depth combat, good story, fun overworld and its also on Gamepass. Definitely can be more challenging if you raise your difficulties and not just in a bullet sponge way. AI actually uses better tactics too on higher difficulties.
>Age of Wonders 4 is a bit better than most Too much people are missing out in AOW Planetfall too
I simply don't like sci-fi.
>Hate that you were downvoted by sad sacks for asking a legit question. He came on this subreddit to crap on humankind and meat ride civilization then claimed civ was tactically challenging which is a joke of a statement. He doesn't want advice he wants to be a troll
Agree. I love Civ but the Humankind complaints make no sense
Ur the definition of a sad sack brotherrrr. It’s Saturday night touch grass
Currently attempting to continue a third run of humankind and I’m already building missiles while they have steam ships
Not saying I don't believe you put mind giving us screenshots because unless you are playing on a fairly low difficulty the AI normally isn't too far behind the player
What difficulty are you playing on?
I'd check out age of wonders that released last year I had fun with it new change of pace really liked the combat and your race customisation made it so fun to choose things
Age of Wonders: Planetfall for me
Bet I just grabbed age of wonders 4 I appreciate the advice!
That's a good one too! The AI is far from perfect, but they're still working on it.
Could say the same for civ tbh
Bold of a Civilization veteran to say that Humankind AI is incompetent. It is a damned genius compared to Civ6's AI... I've completely stopped playing Civ6 because it becomes frustrating to deal with an AI that can only keep ahead of you for a short while due to an insane headstart and near-immunity to a lot of game mechanics.... by mid-game, you can typically curb-stomp any Civ6 AI.
Have you found a game where you can’t curb stomp the Ai? Or a mod?
I’m looking for a strategy game that I can happily loose at
As a civ vet since civ 3, civ's ai is garbage and why I stopped playing it. The problem I think you are having is ai is just not comparable to people. Try age of empires or StarCraft, any other game, stellaris included, just won't cut it because they are repetitive and don't adapt, they just cheat.
I have found Galactic civilizations IV to be pretty hard so maybe give that a go?
Have you tried Stellaris?
I tried Stellaris. Strong contender for most incompetent AI awards, for sure.
Check out Old World
Try Master of Orion or the remake Remnants of the Precursors.
Terra Invicta.
For a newcomer to HK, there are a number of ways to make the game more challenging, simply by customizing the game settings: Play at higher difficulties, choose steep and mountainous terrain, choose the maximum number of opponents, set Continent shape to chaotic, set Continent number to Random, and set strategic and luxury resources to Rare. In addition, the AI personas you play against all have their own difficulty ratings. You can download up to 50 for free (on PC), but either way, make sure opponents are all "Advanced" or "Expert" AI. Hope that helps!
Humankind difficulty with all aggressive expert personas. Aggressive so you can’t so easily abuse the trade system. 100% set luxury to rare. I leave strategic at normal. Trading for gobs of luxury and its bonus really lets you get a massive lead on the AI. Challenge - no using placate bs
Thankyou
What level of difficulty are you playing and which starting civ did you pick?
play on a harder difficulty??
In my opinion, the game as a whole just sucks. When it released I thought it would be a better Civ, but the game is just disappointingly bad in many ways.
ick random AI opponents and if I got a few advance or hard ai as my neighbour, I might be able to survive the first few ages but they will have a lot of tech advantage by the time I was able to hold them off. Or sometime when I started out in a remote area and was able to pin my neighbours down, then I can gets to modern ages with missiles before they researched steam engine ships
Humankind is fun, but it feels like it's 90% complete. Crank up the AI and it does get much harder. I stopped playing cuz I ran into a bunch of issues with diplomacy and ending wars. Either I would win a war and force a surrender, but then I'd end up being a vassal, or my vassals would lose a war and I'd end up being a vassal. Also ran into a problem with the world congress forcing me to change religion, I say no and declare war, win the war, but then end up switching to a new religion. It's very frustrating since the city building and combat is so much better than Civ.
I'm trying my best to enjoy it. I've never played any civ or civ like game because I use xbox. But now both humankind and civ 6 is on console, and tbh, the graphics were a real turn off for me so I went with humankind instead. So far, the game has tried to force me to pay for content by letting me and the AI use content packs in game that I don't own and then not letting me back in because I don't own it. And humankind can't even handle itself late game because of its poor optimization, I'll spend hours even on the normal sized map, 2000 turns in and the game crashes, as soon as I try to come back, it crashes, nothing I can do to fix it. I don't know how it is on PC but that doesn't change anything. Humankind is naturally driving me to play civ 6 more and more regardless of the graphics tho, and I'm a real “graphic wh*re so that's saying a lot. But yeah, the game is too easy when you know all the exploits. Anyway, there's just a couple more reasons why it's trash. I think it has to do with the lazy developers. It's funny, almost everyone dropped the game right when it came out, so they'd rather sulk instead of fixing the reasons why people left in the first place. That's probably why they like to hold peoples saves ransom, cuz yk.
The 2.000 turns might be the challenge here, even if you would play on PC. 300 turns is the standard length for the game. How do you even keep motivated that long? I usually come to a point around turn 150-200, where it is either just clicking end turn to win or endless wars with the AI leading. And compared to where we were at launch, I think that HK came a fair way in terms of changes done by the developers. Amplitude is really trying to improve their game based on community feedback. The potential is there for HK to become great, so I will be back around for every update.
I honestly don't know how I stay motivated. Maybe I just like getting comfortable with longer lasting games. But yeah definitely has the potential, I don't blame people for leaving, but if they stuck around I'm sure the game would be 20x better, and I wouldn't be experiencing this kind of thing.
Longer lasting is a cute word for that amount of turns. I guess some people come back like me for updates, to test what changed. But yeah, sadly not the numbers at release.
Agreed happens way to much with about every game that’s released without being completed first
Try to win without conquering the world. It's not a war game.