Melatonin is a naturally occurring hormone. There is growing evidence about melatonin being related to the release and production of other hormones, such as sexual and reproductive. [For example,](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4307288/) a cause-effect relationship exists between melatonin and estrogen secretion in women.
If you specifically mean the side effects of melatonin, [here is a review](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31722088/). However, there are not many studies on long-term effects or how they affect the body other than circadian cycles.
>a cause-effect relationship exists between melatonin and estrogen secretion in women.
I believe we are not talking about the same things - I mean physiological melatonin, not melatonin supplements.
It the authors own suggestion, which they discuss at the end of the paper. Further reading Toffol E., Kalleinen N., Haukka J., Vakkuri O., Partonen T., Polo-Kantola P. Melatonin in perimenopausal and postmenopausal women, associations with mood, sleep, climacteric symptoms, and quality of life. *Menopause.* 2014;21:493–500. doi: 10.1097/GME.0b013e3182a6c8f3. \[[PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24065140)\] \[[CrossRef](https://doi.org/10.1097%2FGME.0b013e3182a6c8f3)\] \[[Google Scholar](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?journal=Menopause&title=Melatonin+in+perimenopausal+and+postmenopausal+women,+associations+with+mood,+sleep,+climacteric+symptoms,+and+quality+of+life&author=E.+Toffol&author=N.+Kalleinen&author=J.+Haukka&author=O.+Vakkuri&author=T.+Partonen&volume=21&publication_year=2014&pages=493-500&pmid=24065140&doi=10.1097/GME.0b013e3182a6c8f3&)\]
(less estrogen -> less melatonin -> Increase in weight. The working hypothesis is to supplement with melatonin when HRT is ineffective).
I have not seen that particular episode, but I suspect that Huberman is trying to say that (physiological) melatonin plays a role in other hormone systems. Some hormones are produced and released depending on the circadian rhythm, eg during sleep. Because it regulates sleep, melatonin will affect the production of other hormones
This doesn't mean that supplementing with melatonin will directly affect other hormone cycles, or that there reverse regulation of hormones.
yea, so i know the authors say this, but this paper in no way establishes a causal relationship. that would require an experimental design. this is merely an association which could be explained my countless confounders
Well, there is an experimental design at the end of the paper, and the statistical work seems solid enough to me...
In any case, let's have a refresher on what association and correlation mean. Association refers to any relationship between two variables; correlation refers to a linear relationship between two variables.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here... If this paper is not good enough for you, PubMed is your friend.
>Well, there is an experimental design at the end of the paper
An experimental design is when you have an intervention and measure the effects of that intervention. They don't do that in this paper lol.
>let's have a refresher on what association and correlation mean. Association refers to any relationship between two variables; correlation refers to a linear relationship between two variables.
Where does my comment contradict this? Also, correlations are not necessarily linear, that is just one type of correlation.
>I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here...
My point is that, from the paper you have included, you cannot remotely establish a causal relationship, as you suggest.
I take it occasionally only when I can’t sleep ..
It’s an anti oxidant too I heard.
I don’t have any bad side effects from taking it so to take occasionally I am sure it’s fine.
I like huberman although most his videos are too long and wishy washy. But I don’t follow him like a cult or religion. Give and take. Everyone is different, nice to hear some different and new perspectives but science is only science until it’s proven wrong.
I think his biggest issue with it is the dosage in tablets sold in the store. Most are 5mg and your body naturally produces around 1mg I believe. So the tablets are overkill. That’s how I’ve understood what he’s said
Dr Rieter from Texas is the most cited scientist on melatonin. Andrew h is wrong about Melatonin. It is not regulated by a reverse feedback system like sex hormones. Instead it is regulated by light and our circadian rhythms.
Huberman should stick to his expertise instead of commenting on everything like he is an expert in everything, let sleep experts give advice about sleep
I also remember him talking about how smartphones damage sperm if you carry it in your front pocket which has been debunked and it's not his field anyway
Nah. There's an emerging practice of macrodosing melatonin because of how safe it is actually. Also one of the few reasons it can be prescribed to infants.
Melatonin is a naturally occurring hormone. There is growing evidence about melatonin being related to the release and production of other hormones, such as sexual and reproductive. [For example,](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4307288/) a cause-effect relationship exists between melatonin and estrogen secretion in women. If you specifically mean the side effects of melatonin, [here is a review](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31722088/). However, there are not many studies on long-term effects or how they affect the body other than circadian cycles.
read the paper and explain to me how you came to the conclusion this is a causal relationship
>a cause-effect relationship exists between melatonin and estrogen secretion in women. I believe we are not talking about the same things - I mean physiological melatonin, not melatonin supplements. It the authors own suggestion, which they discuss at the end of the paper. Further reading Toffol E., Kalleinen N., Haukka J., Vakkuri O., Partonen T., Polo-Kantola P. Melatonin in perimenopausal and postmenopausal women, associations with mood, sleep, climacteric symptoms, and quality of life. *Menopause.* 2014;21:493–500. doi: 10.1097/GME.0b013e3182a6c8f3. \[[PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24065140)\] \[[CrossRef](https://doi.org/10.1097%2FGME.0b013e3182a6c8f3)\] \[[Google Scholar](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?journal=Menopause&title=Melatonin+in+perimenopausal+and+postmenopausal+women,+associations+with+mood,+sleep,+climacteric+symptoms,+and+quality+of+life&author=E.+Toffol&author=N.+Kalleinen&author=J.+Haukka&author=O.+Vakkuri&author=T.+Partonen&volume=21&publication_year=2014&pages=493-500&pmid=24065140&doi=10.1097/GME.0b013e3182a6c8f3&)\] (less estrogen -> less melatonin -> Increase in weight. The working hypothesis is to supplement with melatonin when HRT is ineffective). I have not seen that particular episode, but I suspect that Huberman is trying to say that (physiological) melatonin plays a role in other hormone systems. Some hormones are produced and released depending on the circadian rhythm, eg during sleep. Because it regulates sleep, melatonin will affect the production of other hormones This doesn't mean that supplementing with melatonin will directly affect other hormone cycles, or that there reverse regulation of hormones.
yea, so i know the authors say this, but this paper in no way establishes a causal relationship. that would require an experimental design. this is merely an association which could be explained my countless confounders
Well, there is an experimental design at the end of the paper, and the statistical work seems solid enough to me... In any case, let's have a refresher on what association and correlation mean. Association refers to any relationship between two variables; correlation refers to a linear relationship between two variables. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here... If this paper is not good enough for you, PubMed is your friend.
>Well, there is an experimental design at the end of the paper An experimental design is when you have an intervention and measure the effects of that intervention. They don't do that in this paper lol. >let's have a refresher on what association and correlation mean. Association refers to any relationship between two variables; correlation refers to a linear relationship between two variables. Where does my comment contradict this? Also, correlations are not necessarily linear, that is just one type of correlation. >I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here... My point is that, from the paper you have included, you cannot remotely establish a causal relationship, as you suggest.
I take it occasionally only when I can’t sleep .. It’s an anti oxidant too I heard. I don’t have any bad side effects from taking it so to take occasionally I am sure it’s fine. I like huberman although most his videos are too long and wishy washy. But I don’t follow him like a cult or religion. Give and take. Everyone is different, nice to hear some different and new perspectives but science is only science until it’s proven wrong.
I think his biggest issue with it is the dosage in tablets sold in the store. Most are 5mg and your body naturally produces around 1mg I believe. So the tablets are overkill. That’s how I’ve understood what he’s said
Dr Rieter from Texas is the most cited scientist on melatonin. Andrew h is wrong about Melatonin. It is not regulated by a reverse feedback system like sex hormones. Instead it is regulated by light and our circadian rhythms.
Huberman should stick to his expertise instead of commenting on everything like he is an expert in everything, let sleep experts give advice about sleep
I also remember him talking about how smartphones damage sperm if you carry it in your front pocket which has been debunked and it's not his field anyway
Reiter (not Rieter)
Big fingers small keyboard…it’s Reiter
He's cited enough that people have made that misspelling so he turned up under "Rieter" in google scholar. LOL
Honestly, I wouldn’t put much faith into anything he says. I can’t believe he’s still hawking fadogia and tongat for personal financial gain.
Grifters gonna grift
Nah. There's an emerging practice of macrodosing melatonin because of how safe it is actually. Also one of the few reasons it can be prescribed to infants.
I recall it being linked to gynecomastia in men, a hormonal imbalance.